Would you give 30 million to say, me, if I said I could build you a great game?
It's like I said before, Sigil hadn't established themselves. Were I in MS's shoes, I would not have given them more than 30 million either.
I can understand that.
To me though, it seemed like MS wasn't even looking at what they had. Consider how the game was released and then consider that MS wanted the game out the door in July of '06. Come on, someone at MS had to look at it and, yeah, umm, no way this will be ready.
MS knew what they were getting into. Independant company aside, MS stuck with them for how many years, and through most of their time together they though they could compete against a game that cost 80 mil to produce, and on less then half the budget?
I just can't see any way of looking at that and thinking, dang, that's stupid. MS should've been smarter then that.
Dedicating assets to something and then deciding later down the line that maybe you don't want to do this is just bad management on both sides of the fence. MS for not seeing it through, and Sigil for not ensuring that they keep MS attention till the end.
Every game company does that, there's dozens and dozens of game companies that start building, get investors start spending money, start dedicating assets to things, and then when a milestone hits and its missed and repeatedly missed or repeatedly fails to please investors someone has to eventually cut the ties.
Vanguard wasn't mismanaged by Microsoft, they're severly stringent there, they have a realistic view on whats going to make it and whats not. The vanguard team was made up of industry veterans but their managers, their 'big wigs' as to say were NOT management types. Brad failed he was in control but he's an artist a designer he needed someone to manage and to lead.
Im not a microsoft fan but the companies that have put out games for them are excellent. Sigil just wasnt' up to par. Infact this is what the 3rd or 4th attempt at an MMO break out by Microsoft that they've cut off (they cut off several xbox mmo titles for similiar or unknown reasons not to mention the mess up with AC 2)
Microsoft has the money to spend, they blue several millions on a game purely based on the fact its was being designed by Brad. Names can be really important high up on the ladder. Like everyone worshiping George Lucas then he fed us some Jar Jar Binks bullshit. Sometimes what made the name famous screws the name over in the end.
But most of the time it's the financers that cut the tie if milestones are consistantly missed. MS didn't sever ther ties with Sigil though. Everything I've read was more along the lines of Sigil decided to leave, or it was mutual. That can say a lot when a company invests 30 mil into something and doesn't make a stink about thier investment walking. Most companies don't just drop 30 mil either.
My opinion is that Sigil wasn't being properly funded and management made a bad move to go some place else. This causes the man in charge to have to seek other finances, drawing him away from the office. He puts people in charge that aren't living up to thier roles, and all the while the company is going further and further into dept.
People seem to forget that Sigil DID build something with the 30 mil, and I don't care what some anonymous interview says, you don't build a world like VG in the last 15 months. No sir, not happening. Work WAS being done, and the game sitting on shelves is proof that Sigil DID do something with the 30 mil that was given.
Flip thing up a little bit. WoW took 80 mil and about the same time to make. Think they would have been as well off working with just 30 mil.? I don't.
Personally, to me, it sounds like Sigil was underfunded. An underfunded company is going to move much slower then one that is funder correctly.
Honestly now, 30 mil is a joke for the scope of this game. Why are they expected to build possibly the largest MMO to date, with some pretty sick technology for just 30 mil. While a game like WoW takes 80. I'm suprised people aren't seeing a problem with that.
WoW=80 mil
VG=30 mil
Obviousely VG required a lot more money to be done right.
MS will aslo be getting thier 5th shot as they'll be working with the guys from Cryptic Studios to produce the Marvel online game. Be interesting to see how they treat Cryptic.
Another point is this. If you have a vision of a game so grand in scope that it would cost more than 80 million to make, and you know from the beginning you only have $30 million to spend from your investor, you don't blame the investor! You either get a different investor from the beginning who can supply the needed funds, or failing that you adjust your vision to fit your budget. Sigil did neither.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Another point is this. If you have a vision of a game so grand in scope that it would cost more than 80 million to make, and you know from the beginning you only have $30 million to spend from your investor, you don't blame the investor! You either get a different investor from the beginning who can supply the needed funds, or failing that you adjust your vision to fit your budget. Sigil did neither.
I think that people just believed, and no one person knew exactly how difficult neigh impossible their task was. They did amazing things on what budget they had though. Chalk that up to the human spirit.
I seriously can't wait till September when I get my new video card and am actually able to play again though. Any predictions on what the game will be like after summer?
If they make an expansion before fixing the existing game then I'll be out on the Anti-SOE picket lines along with Shayde.
I can appreciate what you're saying Urdig, but I can't fault Microsoft here.
If you come into a business meeting with a proposal, and they accept your proposal, and give you a budget, it's up to you to adjust your proposal accordingly. They knew they were getting 30 million. Did that mean they had to dumb down the game? Perhaps initially. Or they could have reduced the size of Telon; even some of the most avid fans dislike the absurdly long travel times.
Sigil and co. could have made 1 initial continent, with expansion packs to further expand the world. It's not unheard of in an MMORPG to have blocked off certain areas for future content implementation. However, as numerous others have said, they mismanaged their resources. Time, money, and personnel weren't allocated in the proper areas, and in my opinion, that's what ultimately led to this game's dismal performance.
Also, from the other thread, the fact there was only 1 QA tester is abhorrent. A glaring example of terrible, terrible management.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Another point is this. If you have a vision of a game so grand in scope that it would cost more than 80 million to make, and you know from the beginning you only have $30 million to spend from your investor, you don't blame the investor! You either get a different investor from the beginning who can supply the needed funds, or failing that you adjust your vision to fit your budget. Sigil did neither.
I think that people just believed, and no one person knew exactly how difficult neigh impossible their task was. They did amazing things on what budget they had though. Chalk that up to the human spirit.
I seriously can't wait till September when I get my new video card and am actually able to play again though. Any predictions on what the game will be like after summer?
If they make an expansion before fixing the existing game then I'll be out on the Anti-SOE picket lines along with Shayde.
There will be an expansion out before Christmass, you can bet your new GPU on that mate. SOE are pretty easy to predict when it comes to pulling crap like this. They tell you what you want to hear, listen to your suggestions then do exactly what they were going to do in the first place!
I'm sure the new expansion will be disguised as a re-launch, some kind of stealth action pack. Any decent content will be getting held back for this expansion/action pack, so your probably only gonna be getting nerfs and rebalances until it gets released. How do I know this? It's a bit like when I said SOE was in charge of VG and will buy it out last year, and the fact that MS dumped it was a sign it wasn't 3rd gen or the next greatest MMO. I was called a hater and told Brad decided to leave and he picked SOE from the queue of MMO companys begging for him to sign a contract.
Well I'm telling you this now because this is how SOE does business, don't believe me? You will baby, then you can make excuses for Smed instead of Brad.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
you can bet [I will not bet on your theories, assumptions]
pretty easy to predict [I need not comment]
They tell you [such assuredness, telling us what SOE will tell us in the future]
then do exactly [more certainty? what are today's lottery numbers going to be?]
I'm sure [I believe you are sure of yourself]
so your [sic] probably [you're now predicting about us, the reader - goodness]
How do I know this? [you know nothing, really]
Well I'm telling you this now [you told us nothing, really]
don't believe me? You will baby [I cannot think of what to say here. LOL. narcissist]
You do realize you know nothing?
I currently play the game (yesterday, today, and tomorrow) and I am perplexed why you keep trying to "predict" all of these things.
I am not going to hide-the-ball, you do it because your PC will not run Vanguard, you have realized you are low-class and cannot afford a new PC, and this makes you very angry. It is catharsis for you to vent that low-class angst on web pages. You feel like you are getting back at society, your parents, and corporations (SOE). You will continue to do this, as you have for months (years?). Is my "prediction" worth anything? Not a dime. Is yours?
EDIT: To help you, I am demonstrating how unduly assured of your "predictions" you are and how unduly assured of I would be in making a "prediction" about you.
I am not going to hide-the-ball, you do it because your PC will not run Vanguard, you have realized you are low-class and cannot afford a new PC,
Quite honestly, I would be all for the arguement that you need a higher end machine to run VanGuard. The problem I am having is that you really shouldn't need such a powerful machine. The engine is out of date, there is no common functions like anti-aliasing, and it does not allow for implementation of dual core processing. Why should you need a high end machine for that? I think that was a huge mistake on Sigil's part, but that is my opinion.
I am glad, however, that you are enjoying the game and I hope you continue to do so.
I currently play the game (yesterday, today, and tomorrow) and I am perplexed why you keep trying to "predict" all of these things.
I am not going to hide-the-ball, you do it because your PC will not run Vanguard, you have realized you are low-class and cannot afford a new PC, and this makes you very angry. It is catharsis for you to vent that low-class angst on web pages. You feel like you are getting back at society, your parents, and corporations (SOE). You will continue to do this, as you have for months (years?). Is my "prediction" worth anything? Not a dime. Is yours?
EDIT: To help you, I am demonstrating how unduly assured of your "predictions" you are and how unduly assured of I would be in making a "prediction" about you.
You do realize that it is his opinion. We are allowed to have an opinion about what happens in the
future. We can agree with that opinion or not. The validity of Agricola's opinion will be borne out over
the next six months as the patches and the supposed "relaunch" occur.
If the last patch is any indication, his prediction is right on. The patch had very little meat and was
primarily cosmetic. Lets see what the next patch brings, then the next, then the next. If the pattern
continues, I know who I will believe. The final clincher will be what the expansion looks like and
whether it has the real performance fixes plus new content that he has predicted.
What exactly was your prediction ? Oh. You didn't have one. You just don't like his prediction.
So you decide to sling mud and try to cast aspersions on his socioeconomic class because he
didn't like VG. And who exactly are you ? A "man" who judges people's worth by the size and speed
of their rig and whether it can run Vanguard adequately or not ? You're quite the big man and I am
not just talking about your e-peen. Because you have made me realize that I, too, suffer from some
serious rig envy. Maybe one day if I work hard, I can change my priorities, buy a computer that is
capable of running Vanguard, move into my parent's basement, join the lower middle class and
You missed the point (feigns Florida-Southern drawl) big-time.
I was not saying he was any of the things you described. LOL. I was saying that I can no more make unduly assured predictions about him than he can make unduly assured predictions about what we will hear, what SOE will say, and so forth.
You need to reread my posts twice (maybe three times) before responding to them. Seriously.
You missed the point (feigns Florida-Southern drawl) big-time.
I was not saying he was any of the things you described. LOL. I was saying that I can no more make unduly assured predictions about him than he can make unduly assured predictions about what we will hear, what SOE will say, and so forth.
You need to reread my posts twice (maybe three times) before responding to them. Seriously.
Okay, what exactly did I miss? I quoted your post - i addressed the salient points.
If your point was the part in yellow, why did you include the part I quoted ? The most
important port of an idea is the first and last paragraph. I focussed on the last paragraph,
If your point was the part in yellow, why did you include the part I quoted ?
The point was that his unduly assured "predictions" were as absurd as mine. You took it a bit too seriously, though. You started to talk about moving in your basement and something about being working-class and affording a PC. Look, my Friend, I have been critical about Vanguard's lofty PC demands. It is ridiculous in my opinion to have a game that cannot be played on the average PC. To be specific to your question, I was not slinging mud. It was an absurd theory ("prediction") that he will continue to troll and flame Vanguard forums for months (years). I also think you got the joke mixed-up as well. You are also calling me a "man" who judges people based on their PC performance. LOL.
To be honest, reading your post again while reading this explanation has confused me and given me a slight headache. lol.
If your point was the part in yellow, why did you include the part I quoted ?
The point was that his unduly assured "predictions" were as absurd as mine. You took it a bit too seriously, though. You started to talk about moving in your basement and something about being working-class and affording a PC. Look, my Friend, I have been critical about Vanguard's lofty PC demands. It is ridiculous in my opinion to have a game that cannot be played on the average PC. To be specific to your question, I was not slinging mud. It was an absurd theory ("prediction") that he will continue to troll and flame Vanguard forums for months (years). I also think you got the joke mixed-up as well. You are also calling me a "man" who judges people based on their PC performance. LOL.
To be honest, reading your post again while reading this explanation has confused me and given me a slight headache. lol.
Lets try this again, because you just don't get it.
His assured predictions were his opinion. People are allowed to have and express opinions in a forum.
But because you don't like his opinion, you label it absurd. However, the first patch released by Sony
seems to be following his prediction. Will the second, third, and fourth ? We will see. Ultimately, as I
said before, the clincher will be the actual expansion. Will it have the real fixes (meaning the heavy
hitting performance fixes) ? Time will tell. I think it is way to premature to call his prediction absurd.
You say you were not slinging mud. However this is what you said and I quote :
"you have realized you are low-class and cannot afford a new PC, and this makes you very angry. It is catharsis for you to vent that low-class angst on web pages. You feel like you are getting back at society, your parents, and corporations (SOE)."
Now perhaps your definition of mudslinging is different from mine. But your attempt at performing
a "psychological diagnosis" on someone and trying to be an authority on their motivations is
disingenuous at best.
As for your headache, if you tried to deal with people in a straightforward manner rather than trying to run
this exercise in journalistic bullcrap that you insist on doing, perhaps we would all be better off. But that is
Well you could've just said you thought my predictions were crap, you just seemed to go a bit over the top with the gaming rig and low class bit in order to try and make your point. I had a good laugh but by the end it was bit disturbing mate, I half expected to see my door kicked down with a chainsaw wielding madman that had "healz4u" tattooed on his forehead screaming for revenge.
My comp is fine except the GPU is an older one but it runs everything I use (6200 FX), I'll be upgrading it to a 7000 series this year sometime. As for VG I have friends who forked out the cash and been to their place, I refused when even my girlfriend was going on about it and how she was gonna sign up and I should get on ship now before it's too late. None of those friends that bought and some pre-ordered play it now, one mate that quit recently refered to it as "Vandead". He could've taken the bugs and preformance issues but all our friends stopped playing and he says the servers are dead.
Judging by how it runs on friends computers that are equivalent to mine, it was pretty bad the bugs weren't so bad but it was just sooooo unfinished. It just lacked in all aspects, the only part that seemed to work properly was the diplomacy card game. I don't "hate" Vanguard, however I do despise Brad Mcquaid he lied and cheater many people and a few I know personaly. I'd ask them what he meant by 3rd gen and they didn't know, I'd ask what's so revoloutinary about Vanguard and they didn't know. They just knew Brad had said so, so it must be true.
Thanks to Brad Vanguard was made, but it also will never really go much further than what you see today. Thirty million has already been pumped into this game, I don't think Smed is willing to invest into it. Now is the time for Vanguard to make money, not the time to invest for the future. According to some DEVs Vanguard wasn't even started until 15 months before release, this is what I despise Brad for most. He was blathering on about his vision, telling lies to groupers, soloers and raiders alike when all the time he knew the game was less complete than "Federation of Free Traders" beta (if anyone can remember that fiasco)!
As about my predictions, well it's really just par for the course for SOE. It's not like I'm being Nostradamus or the oracle at Delphi, that's how SOE have always operated.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
He made a prediction not a prognosis. Huge difference.
Main Entry: prog·no·sis
Pronunciation: präg-'nO-s&s
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): pluralprog·no·ses /-"sEz/
Etymology: Late Latin, from Greek prognOsis, literally, foreknowledge, from progignOskein to know before, from pro- + gignOskein to know -- more at KNOW
1: the prospect of recovery as anticipated from the usual course of disease or peculiarities of the case
EQ was a small game that grew big. Even so, it cost $8 million initially to make. WoW was a medium sized game that grew bigger. It cost over $80 million to make. With Vanguard, Sigil wanted everything to be HUGE. A much bigger world than most mmos had ever had. More classes. More races. More abilities. More systems. More photorealism. More of everything. Whatever the game feature or system was, Sigil wanted it bigger and better than anyone had seen before. Yet they only had $30 million to work with ... Now, if they had been managed well, and had stayed on target and seperated the wheat from the chaff, they could have done it. Evidence EVE Online. But they were not managed well; they did not stay on target; and they wasted a lot of their development money and could not meet their timelines or benchmarks. That meant that in order to deliver the game they envisioned, they needed a lot more money and a lot more time. But when Brad went looking for more money, it wasn't there. That left them no alternative but to have a fire sale of Sigil to SOE, and to rush the game out far short of what they envisioned. In many ways the course of this game tracks the course of Dark & Light, which made most of the same mistakes with most of the same results. The bottom line is, $30 million + lofty, impractical goals + poor management doomed this game from day 1.
Vanguard tanked because microsoft shifted there priorities toward the xbox 360. then once that was flowing smoothly windows vista. if vanguard was takin down the shelves now like it was never released and was in development at this moment. Microsoft wouldnt of shunned them and Vanguard would of been completed when it was completed. And it wouldnt of been picked up by SOE. SOE wanted to make some kind of revenue out of there purchuse and released it because they can do that. They dont care because im sure they didnt pay that much to take the title from microsoft nor did they give to much funding. so when it was released it made 10million sony got a chunk of that prolly makin money off that investment and could care less what happened to sigil because if it tanked which it did they got a free next gen mmo for freakin free. Sony is a business and they know how to make more money. Thats why im sure brad is gettin paid still by them because he prolly put it in the contract to get a lil somthing for every time it made a lil coin. only people who lost on this one is microsoft and the employees of sigil. because im sure sony didnt give more then 1million to the project once they got ahold of it. Thats the problem with games today. the main monster publishers and funders dont give a rats boontang if the game is good or not. They just want your 50dollars because they knew it would sell at least 200k copies just because that many people or more want somthing new and dont mind spending the coin. Big business ruins games and Vanguard is perfect example. so dont get mad at SOE get mad at microsoft for being pussies and just realizing MMO's cost money. shoot 100million is like a dollar for microsoft so i dont know why they just shunned them like that for vista and xbox360. Microsoft killed vanguard!! PERIOD
Vanguard tanked because microsoft shifted there priorities toward the xbox 360.
Supposedly the reason Sigil partnered with MS from the beginning, and supposedly the reason they parted from MS near the end, is because Sigil wanted "control." Brad claimed Sigil had "control." Sigil also had a 100 member staff. So if Sigil was in "control" with all those Sigil people devoted full time to the project, it's rather funny for them to say it's some other company's fault.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Vanguard tanked because microsoft shifted there priorities toward the xbox 360.
Supposedly the reason Sigil partnered with MS from the beginning, and supposedly the reason they parted from MS near the end, is because Sigil wanted "control." Brad claimed Sigil had "control." Sigil also had a 100 member staff. So if Sigil was in "control" with all those Sigil people devoted full time to the project, it's rather funny for them to say it's some other company's fault.
You can be in control all you want but if you dont have funding...sadly you are no longer in control. Yes they had control over the project but they couldnt meet deadlines. microsoft being who they are couldn't take it and wanted results but its a mmo it takes alot of time to develop a A-class mmo. So yeah no money no control so hence how SOE picked it up, released it few months later made there money back and took over the whole project. SOE is cleaver, real cleaver. sneaky lil devils.
From a business perspective, MFST and SIGIL was a strange partnership. MSFT is a geeky, very professional organization that loves spread sheets. SIGIL is a very creative and unprofessional organization. I am sure that SIGIL also despised excel spread sheets as much as MFST loved them.
It was a strange marriage (business partnership) indeed. I think SIGIL partnered with MSFT for its deep pockets, but MSFT was not willing to give SIGIL the financing it needed to keep developing the game.
Comments
I can understand that.
To me though, it seemed like MS wasn't even looking at what they had. Consider how the game was released and then consider that MS wanted the game out the door in July of '06. Come on, someone at MS had to look at it and, yeah, umm, no way this will be ready.
MS knew what they were getting into. Independant company aside, MS stuck with them for how many years, and through most of their time together they though they could compete against a game that cost 80 mil to produce, and on less then half the budget?
I just can't see any way of looking at that and thinking, dang, that's stupid. MS should've been smarter then that.
Dedicating assets to something and then deciding later down the line that maybe you don't want to do this is just bad management on both sides of the fence. MS for not seeing it through, and Sigil for not ensuring that they keep MS attention till the end.
Every game company does that, there's dozens and dozens of game companies that start building, get investors start spending money, start dedicating assets to things, and then when a milestone hits and its missed and repeatedly missed or repeatedly fails to please investors someone has to eventually cut the ties.
Vanguard wasn't mismanaged by Microsoft, they're severly stringent there, they have a realistic view on whats going to make it and whats not. The vanguard team was made up of industry veterans but their managers, their 'big wigs' as to say were NOT management types. Brad failed he was in control but he's an artist a designer he needed someone to manage and to lead.
Im not a microsoft fan but the companies that have put out games for them are excellent. Sigil just wasnt' up to par. Infact this is what the 3rd or 4th attempt at an MMO break out by Microsoft that they've cut off (they cut off several xbox mmo titles for similiar or unknown reasons not to mention the mess up with AC 2)
Microsoft has the money to spend, they blue several millions on a game purely based on the fact its was being designed by Brad. Names can be really important high up on the ladder. Like everyone worshiping George Lucas then he fed us some Jar Jar Binks bullshit. Sometimes what made the name famous screws the name over in the end.
But most of the time it's the financers that cut the tie if milestones are consistantly missed. MS didn't sever ther ties with Sigil though. Everything I've read was more along the lines of Sigil decided to leave, or it was mutual. That can say a lot when a company invests 30 mil into something and doesn't make a stink about thier investment walking. Most companies don't just drop 30 mil either.
My opinion is that Sigil wasn't being properly funded and management made a bad move to go some place else. This causes the man in charge to have to seek other finances, drawing him away from the office. He puts people in charge that aren't living up to thier roles, and all the while the company is going further and further into dept.
People seem to forget that Sigil DID build something with the 30 mil, and I don't care what some anonymous interview says, you don't build a world like VG in the last 15 months. No sir, not happening. Work WAS being done, and the game sitting on shelves is proof that Sigil DID do something with the 30 mil that was given.
Flip thing up a little bit. WoW took 80 mil and about the same time to make. Think they would have been as well off working with just 30 mil.? I don't.
Personally, to me, it sounds like Sigil was underfunded. An underfunded company is going to move much slower then one that is funder correctly.
Honestly now, 30 mil is a joke for the scope of this game. Why are they expected to build possibly the largest MMO to date, with some pretty sick technology for just 30 mil. While a game like WoW takes 80. I'm suprised people aren't seeing a problem with that.
WoW=80 mil
VG=30 mil
Obviousely VG required a lot more money to be done right.
MS will aslo be getting thier 5th shot as they'll be working with the guys from Cryptic Studios to produce the Marvel online game. Be interesting to see how they treat Cryptic.
Wish Darkfall would release.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I think that people just believed, and no one person knew exactly how difficult neigh impossible their task was. They did amazing things on what budget they had though. Chalk that up to the human spirit.
I seriously can't wait till September when I get my new video card and am actually able to play again though. Any predictions on what the game will be like after summer?
If they make an expansion before fixing the existing game then I'll be out on the Anti-SOE picket lines along with Shayde.
I guess.
If you come into a business meeting with a proposal, and they accept your proposal, and give you a budget, it's up to you to adjust your proposal accordingly. They knew they were getting 30 million. Did that mean they had to dumb down the game? Perhaps initially. Or they could have reduced the size of Telon; even some of the most avid fans dislike the absurdly long travel times.
Sigil and co. could have made 1 initial continent, with expansion packs to further expand the world. It's not unheard of in an MMORPG to have blocked off certain areas for future content implementation. However, as numerous others have said, they mismanaged their resources. Time, money, and personnel weren't allocated in the proper areas, and in my opinion, that's what ultimately led to this game's dismal performance.
Also, from the other thread, the fact there was only 1 QA tester is abhorrent. A glaring example of terrible, terrible management.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
I think that people just believed, and no one person knew exactly how difficult neigh impossible their task was. They did amazing things on what budget they had though. Chalk that up to the human spirit.
I seriously can't wait till September when I get my new video card and am actually able to play again though. Any predictions on what the game will be like after summer?
If they make an expansion before fixing the existing game then I'll be out on the Anti-SOE picket lines along with Shayde.
There will be an expansion out before Christmass, you can bet your new GPU on that mate. SOE are pretty easy to predict when it comes to pulling crap like this. They tell you what you want to hear, listen to your suggestions then do exactly what they were going to do in the first place!
I'm sure the new expansion will be disguised as a re-launch, some kind of stealth action pack. Any decent content will be getting held back for this expansion/action pack, so your probably only gonna be getting nerfs and rebalances until it gets released. How do I know this? It's a bit like when I said SOE was in charge of VG and will buy it out last year, and the fact that MS dumped it was a sign it wasn't 3rd gen or the next greatest MMO. I was called a hater and told Brad decided to leave and he picked SOE from the queue of MMO companys begging for him to sign a contract.
Well I'm telling you this now because this is how SOE does business, don't believe me? You will baby, then you can make excuses for Smed instead of Brad.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
I currently play the game (yesterday, today, and tomorrow) and I am perplexed why you keep trying to "predict" all of these things.
I am not going to hide-the-ball, you do it because your PC will not run Vanguard, you have realized you are low-class and cannot afford a new PC, and this makes you very angry. It is catharsis for you to vent that low-class angst on web pages. You feel like you are getting back at society, your parents, and corporations (SOE). You will continue to do this, as you have for months (years?). Is my "prediction" worth anything? Not a dime. Is yours?
EDIT: To help you, I am demonstrating how unduly assured of your "predictions" you are and how unduly assured of I would be in making a "prediction" about you.
I am glad, however, that you are enjoying the game and I hope you continue to do so.
future. We can agree with that opinion or not. The validity of Agricola's opinion will be borne out over
the next six months as the patches and the supposed "relaunch" occur.
If the last patch is any indication, his prediction is right on. The patch had very little meat and was
primarily cosmetic. Lets see what the next patch brings, then the next, then the next. If the pattern
continues, I know who I will believe. The final clincher will be what the expansion looks like and
whether it has the real performance fixes plus new content that he has predicted.
What exactly was your prediction ? Oh. You didn't have one. You just don't like his prediction.
So you decide to sling mud and try to cast aspersions on his socioeconomic class because he
didn't like VG. And who exactly are you ? A "man" who judges people's worth by the size and speed
of their rig and whether it can run Vanguard adequately or not ? You're quite the big man and I am
not just talking about your e-peen. Because you have made me realize that I, too, suffer from some
serious rig envy. Maybe one day if I work hard, I can change my priorities, buy a computer that is
capable of running Vanguard, move into my parent's basement, join the lower middle class and
be the person you want me to be.
I was not saying he was any of the things you described. LOL. I was saying that I can no more make unduly assured predictions about him than he can make unduly assured predictions about what we will hear, what SOE will say, and so forth.
You need to reread my posts twice (maybe three times) before responding to them. Seriously.
If your point was the part in yellow, why did you include the part I quoted ? The most
important port of an idea is the first and last paragraph. I focussed on the last paragraph,
the part in yellow was not worth commenting on.
The point was that his unduly assured "predictions" were as absurd as mine. You took it a bit too seriously, though. You started to talk about moving in your basement and something about being working-class and affording a PC. Look, my Friend, I have been critical about Vanguard's lofty PC demands. It is ridiculous in my opinion to have a game that cannot be played on the average PC. To be specific to your question, I was not slinging mud. It was an absurd theory ("prediction") that he will continue to troll and flame Vanguard forums for months (years). I also think you got the joke mixed-up as well. You are also calling me a "man" who judges people based on their PC performance. LOL.
To be honest, reading your post again while reading this explanation has confused me and given me a slight headache. lol.
The point was that his unduly assured "predictions" were as absurd as mine. You took it a bit too seriously, though. You started to talk about moving in your basement and something about being working-class and affording a PC. Look, my Friend, I have been critical about Vanguard's lofty PC demands. It is ridiculous in my opinion to have a game that cannot be played on the average PC. To be specific to your question, I was not slinging mud. It was an absurd theory ("prediction") that he will continue to troll and flame Vanguard forums for months (years). I also think you got the joke mixed-up as well. You are also calling me a "man" who judges people based on their PC performance. LOL.
To be honest, reading your post again while reading this explanation has confused me and given me a slight headache. lol.
Lets try this again, because you just don't get it.
His assured predictions were his opinion. People are allowed to have and express opinions in a forum.
But because you don't like his opinion, you label it absurd. However, the first patch released by Sony
seems to be following his prediction. Will the second, third, and fourth ? We will see. Ultimately, as I
said before, the clincher will be the actual expansion. Will it have the real fixes (meaning the heavy
hitting performance fixes) ? Time will tell. I think it is way to premature to call his prediction absurd.
You say you were not slinging mud. However this is what you said and I quote :
"you have realized you are low-class and cannot afford a new PC, and this makes you very angry. It is catharsis for you to vent that low-class angst on web pages. You feel like you are getting back at society, your parents, and corporations (SOE)."
Now perhaps your definition of mudslinging is different from mine. But your attempt at performing
a "psychological diagnosis" on someone and trying to be an authority on their motivations is
disingenuous at best.
As for your headache, if you tried to deal with people in a straightforward manner rather than trying to run
this exercise in journalistic bullcrap that you insist on doing, perhaps we would all be better off. But that is
your intent isn't it ?
That is precisely my point! My diagnosis was as absurd as his prognosis!
YOU GOT IT!! (almost)
EDIT: Actually, I like your word better. Disingenuous. My diagnosis was as disingenuous as his prognosis. Very good, btw!
Well you could've just said you thought my predictions were crap, you just seemed to go a bit over the top with the gaming rig and low class bit in order to try and make your point. I had a good laugh but by the end it was bit disturbing mate, I half expected to see my door kicked down with a chainsaw wielding madman that had "healz4u" tattooed on his forehead screaming for revenge.
My comp is fine except the GPU is an older one but it runs everything I use (6200 FX), I'll be upgrading it to a 7000 series this year sometime. As for VG I have friends who forked out the cash and been to their place, I refused when even my girlfriend was going on about it and how she was gonna sign up and I should get on ship now before it's too late. None of those friends that bought and some pre-ordered play it now, one mate that quit recently refered to it as "Vandead". He could've taken the bugs and preformance issues but all our friends stopped playing and he says the servers are dead.
Judging by how it runs on friends computers that are equivalent to mine, it was pretty bad the bugs weren't so bad but it was just sooooo unfinished. It just lacked in all aspects, the only part that seemed to work properly was the diplomacy card game. I don't "hate" Vanguard, however I do despise Brad Mcquaid he lied and cheater many people and a few I know personaly. I'd ask them what he meant by 3rd gen and they didn't know, I'd ask what's so revoloutinary about Vanguard and they didn't know. They just knew Brad had said so, so it must be true.
Thanks to Brad Vanguard was made, but it also will never really go much further than what you see today. Thirty million has already been pumped into this game, I don't think Smed is willing to invest into it. Now is the time for Vanguard to make money, not the time to invest for the future. According to some DEVs Vanguard wasn't even started until 15 months before release, this is what I despise Brad for most. He was blathering on about his vision, telling lies to groupers, soloers and raiders alike when all the time he knew the game was less complete than "Federation of Free Traders" beta (if anyone can remember that fiasco)!
As about my predictions, well it's really just par for the course for SOE. It's not like I'm being Nostradamus or the oracle at Delphi, that's how SOE have always operated.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
That is precisely my point! My diagnosis was as absurd as his prognosis!
Apples and oranges.
He made a prediction not a prognosis. Huge difference.
His prediction has a very real chance of becoming reality . Sony has already taken the first step
down the path he foresaw. The next few patches will show the real road that Sony is following.
Absurd. I don't think so.
I was not able to read everything; I am seriously getting a real-life headache and burnt myself out. LOL.
Can you try to make one post without predicting something? Please? One....
I predict you ... will not be able to.
Main Entry: prog·no·sis
Pronunciation:
präg-'nO-s&sFunction: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural prog·no·ses
-"sEz/Etymology: Late Latin, from Greek prognOsis, literally, foreknowledge, from progignOskein to know before, from pro- + gignOskein to know -- more at KNOW
1 : the prospect of recovery as anticipated from the usual course of disease or peculiarities of the case
2 : FORECAST, PROGNOSTICATION
------------------------------------------
It helps a lot to know English.
That is precisely my point! My diagnosis was as absurd as his prognosis!
Apples and oranges.
His prediction has a very real chance of becoming reality . Sony has already taken the first step
down the path he foresaw. The next few patches will show the real road that Sony is following.
Absurd. I don't think so.
Have it your way. I deleted the offending sentence.
At any rate, your layman's "diagnosis" has virtually no chance of becoming reality while his prediction
does.
That is all that matters.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
You can be in control all you want but if you dont have funding...sadly you are no longer in control. Yes they had control over the project but they couldnt meet deadlines. microsoft being who they are couldn't take it and wanted results but its a mmo it takes alot of time to develop a A-class mmo. So yeah no money no control so hence how SOE picked it up, released it few months later made there money back and took over the whole project. SOE is cleaver, real cleaver. sneaky lil devils.
From a business perspective, MFST and SIGIL was a strange partnership. MSFT is a geeky, very professional organization that loves spread sheets. SIGIL is a very creative and unprofessional organization. I am sure that SIGIL also despised excel spread sheets as much as MFST loved them.
It was a strange marriage (business partnership) indeed. I think SIGIL partnered with MSFT for its deep pockets, but MSFT was not willing to give SIGIL the financing it needed to keep developing the game.
Great posts.
Thank you for that immense laugh! I think it was the first time I laughed in real-life while reading these forums. Ha ha!
Anyway, good luck! And thanks.