I agree that the fastest way to get to max level in WoW is to solo. Thats not really disputable. But if every other person in the game is a "two-bit jackass" only focused on reaching endgame as soon as possible, why do you wanna group with them anyway? Yes, most of the content until endgame can be solo content, but it can also be done much more easily in group play. Its the choice and freedom to play the game in whatever style you liek that makes it great, and lets you receive your enjoyment from it in whatever way you can find. You asked the question, how do soloable games, that dont force grouping or demand dependence on other charcters turn out, well juding by WoW's sub numbers, I'd say it turned out to be the future of MMORPGs.
Personally I like games that dont tell me this is the only way you progress, games that dont say you fit our mold or find soemthing else. I do promise you with number of players WoW has on each server you are going to find people that have the exact philosphy of gaming you do. Your gonna find alot of people who like questing together and socializing more than measuring their xp per hour, and when you do, form a guild with them. But it is a little unfair to call everyone who doesnt enjoy the game the exact way you do a "two-bit jackass".
I wonder if good ol Everquest was the first game you played? The first MMORPG i ever played was an old Sierra game called "Realm" and I remeber that game very fondly despite its many flaws. I honestly agree with you that I liked the group play in both games, but I always caught myself thinking wouldnt it be nice to do this, or wouldnt it be cool if I could try that. I love the freedom of choice in WoW to do this or try that by meyself or with others, and can only say that if future MMORPGs adopt that philosphy, the future of this industry is very bright.
Originally posted by methulah Combine this with just about every other two-bit jackass out there who wants to reach max level to join a mindless grind not wanting to group, and you have a game that doesn't really give you choice now, does it?
First off, why would you want to group with a 'two-bit jackass'? A lot of you guys seem to want to force grouping but also seem to despise the other players in the game. Second, of course it does. There is nothing stopping you from grouping in WOW, so it certainly is a choice. Your complaint is that people have a choice and don't all do what you want them to do, but the whole point of a choice is that you can choose.
The fact that you refer to the other players as "two-bit jackass", are complaining that people are not forced to group with you, and that claim that no one will group with you if they can solo says an awful lot about what grouping with you must be like.
If I want to play a single player RPG, I’ll play a Bioware game.
One of the things I liked about early CoH you could solo, but teaming was much faster leveling for most people. The instances would scale to your group size, and it made auto attack combat fun.
If I want to play a single player RPG, I’ll play a Bioware game.
One of the things I liked about early CoH you could solo, but teaming was much faster leveling for most people. The instances would scale to your group size, and it made auto attack combat fun.
There's no law that states "thou shalt not solo in an MMO" so please give it a rest. Many people play MMO's primarily for dynamic content these days.
Don't get me wrong given the choice I'll always group first as I just find it enjoyable. Nonetheless a group only MMO will never again get my money. Life is just to chaotic to always be bound to a group It's just not realistic in 2007.
No, quite the opposite, I would never play a game were the ONLY way to accomplish anything required me to group.
I agree grouping should be rewarding, more so then playing solo, but almost all games are made up like that, XP and rewards are generally better in a group.
But removing the option to solo completely is not only stupid, it is financial suicide.
Having an option is always better then having none, I just can not see how this fact can be disputed in any way or form.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With all these highly soloable mmos out with the exception of FFXI to a point i miss the good ol days of EQ where most of it was group based but it was extremely fun. People wonder why mmorpgs get boring so easily because all it is, is solo to end game then raid raid raid.
Yes, I'd like to see more group orientated games. That's the number one reason I couldn't get into WoW. I hate soloing, and I could tell very quickly WoW as a solo game. Sure it changes after 60, but I wasn't going to solo to 60, and anyway I don't like raiding.
I would not call Vanguard a good grouping game. IMO it calls itself a grouping game, but is poorly designed for grouping. For example, they throw in a new feature called Diplomacy with is a single player card game. Why throw in a single player card game if you're supposedly encouraging grouping?
I agree that the formula that works best, is you can solo content as you progress. Level 10 group content can be solo'ed by someone level 13 or 14. Level 20 content can be solo'd by someone level 24 or 25, and so on. That works just fine.
I agree with the op; I prefer hunting in a group over soloing quests any day. Such as in SWG (before the NGE), I had hours of good times while hunting. I will give you an example: one hunting trip, 2 of the people got stuck in one of the speeders that hold 6 people they tried -unstick, but just teleported the speeder. You might as well play a single player game if you wish to solo everything (have fun talking to those NPC's); mmorpg's are supposed to be about the community.
someone said the key phrase here already but i will repeat it
Soloing should be in the game but grouping should be much more productive. meaning that while you can level to the max level solo you should do it much faster in a group.
when did forced grouping become hard? i never understood this even when i was on the vanguard forum. EQ1 was never "hard" it was more tedious that games like EQ2 or WoW but it wasnt "harder" (or maybe some of you just sucked at it). theres a difference between hard and tedious that some of you MMO'ers need to get through your head.
Hard would be somethign along the lines as mobs with good AI that change thier tactics against a group to focus on thier weakness.
Tedious is killing 10000 of the same rat over and over in order to level.
I disagree that EQ was only tedious. It was both tedious and difficult. An instance of the difficulty of a mob is you couldn't solo well as a melee class even if you were twinked out and buffed up unless you had a healer to PL you. As a Ranger trying to melee mobs when I got to level 15-25 I had to kill mobs that were about 6, 7, 8 levels below me. I couldn't solo melee hardly at all past a point. Until the beast master class was introduced kiting was the only real means of soloing past level level 30 and it was still a long and tedious proccess that could get you killed if the mob somehow got into melee range or if you picked a caster mob that could both melee and do throw all kinds of nasty spells on you. You never want to fight against a Druid or Necromancer NPC. That was asking for death. You couldn't kill giant type of mobs that are level 30 until around level 50 for melee classes and you still might die. When I fought in the planes with my Necromancer it really stressed me out as I knew if the mob got in range of me or if there was a lag spike I would be dead. If the mob closes into melee range it can kill you within a few seconds useually. I also disagree that a game should be tedious if you choose to solo. That makes little sense. You play the game to have fun, not to have tedious game play.
Comments
I agree that the fastest way to get to max level in WoW is to solo. Thats not really disputable. But if every other person in the game is a "two-bit jackass" only focused on reaching endgame as soon as possible, why do you wanna group with them anyway? Yes, most of the content until endgame can be solo content, but it can also be done much more easily in group play. Its the choice and freedom to play the game in whatever style you liek that makes it great, and lets you receive your enjoyment from it in whatever way you can find. You asked the question, how do soloable games, that dont force grouping or demand dependence on other charcters turn out, well juding by WoW's sub numbers, I'd say it turned out to be the future of MMORPGs.
Personally I like games that dont tell me this is the only way you progress, games that dont say you fit our mold or find soemthing else. I do promise you with number of players WoW has on each server you are going to find people that have the exact philosphy of gaming you do. Your gonna find alot of people who like questing together and socializing more than measuring their xp per hour, and when you do, form a guild with them. But it is a little unfair to call everyone who doesnt enjoy the game the exact way you do a "two-bit jackass".
I wonder if good ol Everquest was the first game you played? The first MMORPG i ever played was an old Sierra game called "Realm" and I remeber that game very fondly despite its many flaws. I honestly agree with you that I liked the group play in both games, but I always caught myself thinking wouldnt it be nice to do this, or wouldnt it be cool if I could try that. I love the freedom of choice in WoW to do this or try that by meyself or with others, and can only say that if future MMORPGs adopt that philosphy, the future of this industry is very bright.
First off, why would you want to group with a 'two-bit jackass'? A lot of you guys seem to want to force grouping but also seem to despise the other players in the game. Second, of course it does. There is nothing stopping you from grouping in WOW, so it certainly is a choice. Your complaint is that people have a choice and don't all do what you want them to do, but the whole point of a choice is that you can choose.
The fact that you refer to the other players as "two-bit jackass", are complaining that people are not forced to group with you, and that claim that no one will group with you if they can solo says an awful lot about what grouping with you must be like.
If I want to play a single player RPG, I’ll play a Bioware game.
One of the things I liked about early CoH you could solo, but teaming was much faster leveling for most people. The instances would scale to your group size, and it made auto attack combat fun.
If I want to play a single player RPG, I’ll play a Bioware game.
One of the things I liked about early CoH you could solo, but teaming was much faster leveling for most people. The instances would scale to your group size, and it made auto attack combat fun.
There's no law that states "thou shalt not solo in an MMO" so please give it a rest. Many people play MMO's primarily for dynamic content these days.
Don't get me wrong given the choice I'll always group first as I just find it enjoyable. Nonetheless a group only MMO will never again get my money. Life is just to chaotic to always be bound to a group It's just not realistic in 2007.
That ship sailed back in 1999.
Dutchess Zarraa Voltayre
Reborn/Zero Sum/Ancient Legacy/Jagged Legion/Feared/Nuke & Pave.
Sometimes its ok to group for some real hard quests or instances but i want my freedom too, to enjoy the Game alone.
No, quite the opposite, I would never play a game were the ONLY way to accomplish anything required me to group.
I agree grouping should be rewarding, more so then playing solo, but almost all games are made up like that, XP and rewards are generally better in a group.
But removing the option to solo completely is not only stupid, it is financial suicide.
Having an option is always better then having none, I just can not see how this fact can be disputed in any way or form.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would not call Vanguard a good grouping game. IMO it calls itself a grouping game, but is poorly designed for grouping. For example, they throw in a new feature called Diplomacy with is a single player card game. Why throw in a single player card game if you're supposedly encouraging grouping?
M
I agree with the op; I prefer hunting in a group over soloing quests any day. Such as in SWG (before the NGE), I had hours of good times while hunting. I will give you an example: one hunting trip, 2 of the people got stuck in one of the speeders that hold 6 people they tried -unstick, but just teleported the speeder. You might as well play a single player game if you wish to solo everything (have fun talking to those NPC's); mmorpg's are supposed to be about the community.
someone said the key phrase here already but i will repeat it
Soloing should be in the game but grouping should be much more productive. meaning that while you can level to the max level solo you should do it much faster in a group.
when did forced grouping become hard? i never understood this even when i was on the vanguard forum. EQ1 was never "hard" it was more tedious that games like EQ2 or WoW but it wasnt "harder" (or maybe some of you just sucked at it). theres a difference between hard and tedious that some of you MMO'ers need to get through your head.
Hard would be somethign along the lines as mobs with good AI that change thier tactics against a group to focus on thier weakness.
Tedious is killing 10000 of the same rat over and over in order to level.