Originally posted by tallsmartman So lemme get this straight Neas, this topic on the "true MMORPG-ness" of GW started as opinions of many people. Which is what many discussions on GW is like. But now im really not getting somthing, you talk of people being "pwned" based on opinions, as if it was a competition... Same thing with the Diablo II thread. It boggles my mind how people really think that their viewpoint is the ultimate. I go to messageboards to discuss things and to get other ppls viewpoints. But whatever, I have taken more time explaining the obvious than is healthy... But i know people take this as offensive to dare call their opinion just an opinioin, or there viewpoint just a viewpoint. So, *puts on 100% fire resistant helmet* flame away
If uve read tiberiux's two posts you realise that all 'pnwing' was aimed at him and not you, although even tho he was quoted in the other thread you still thought it was aimed at u...... .
He was originally quoted as being pwned by someone else because he said GW = MMORPG. NUFF SAID, No counter argument please.
WHich is really arrogant so when CIM respons with GW= CORPG from producers web site then it is a counter argument and it is a good one with good evidence so he was owned. He wouldnt have been pwned if he wasnt such a p rick about it.
Beta Tested: Lineage 2, Ryzom, City of Heroes, RYL, EverQuest 2 World Of Warcraft European Truly Loved: World of Warcraft
Well, since Tiberiux did such a good job being an idiot without saying anything at all (Gosh I love those 11 year olds. Remove the keyboard just give them a mouse and Prozac), I think I will add my subjective definition of Guild Wars.
Its a console game.
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force"
If you had been around a bit more than a couple days, you would know that in my other posts, I COMPLETELY AGREE that Guild Wars is not a traditional MMORPG - or as the initial poster called it "True MMORPG".
This I have already agreed with time and time again.
I have never ever disputed that Guild Wars is like EQ or AO or whatever. In fact, one of my posts was a pro-con analysis of the two types of games.
For those who continue to insist that my argument was shattered by that quote, you continue to be wrong. I will sum it up as follows:
1) Arenanet have never stated that it is not an MMORPG. 2) Arentanet have stated that it is an MMORPG. 3) Arenanet have chosen to label their game CORPG for reasons that those who do not believe points 1 and 2 to be true cannot understand.
NOW TO ANSWER THE ORIGINAL POSTER...
Magus Original Post reads:
Subject: "This isn't a "True" MMORPG"
Since he never goes on to state what his DEFINITION Of TRUE MMORPG is, we have to ASSUME he is talking about games like EVERQUEST, ASHERONS CALL and similar.
If THAT is his definition of TRUE MMORPG, which it probably is, then NO Guild Wars is not a TRUE MMORPG by HIS DEFINITION. (for the real definition of MMORPG please see me previous post where I link the true definition)
Magus, then proceeds to say, and I quote,
"This game should be removed from this site since it isnt a MMORPG. It does not have a open large world, you can only enter the world if you are on a mission/quest, sometimes forcing you to have a party also. Just because you can have a guild and go to war with others doesn't make it a MMORPG. A MMORPG needs to have a huge free and open world."
Now, MaguS is making a horrible assumption. That HIS DEFINITION of "TRUE MMORPG" is THE REAL DEFINITION of MMORPG - Which it isn't.
It is HIS DEFINITION not the real technical definition.
If some of you on here, share his view, that is ok. HOWEVER, THE REAL DEFINITION of MMORPG is different to your own. The CHARACTERISTICS of MMORPG are DEFINED.
Games that meet those characteristics are MMORPG Games that do not meet those characterisitics are not MMORPG.
www.mmorpg.com uses the REAL WORLD technical definition of MMORPG to classify which games are and are not MMORPG, NOT MaguS's definition.
This is why Giuld Wars will not be removed from this site. Because by technical definition it is an MMORPG and the folks at www.mmorpg.com understand this perfectly well.
Definition is a very common problem among internet forums. People take words that have a scientific definition to them, and apply their own meaning to the words from their own experiences. It is important to know what the real definition of something is before you attempt to argue about it.
Using that definition both Diablo 2 and Neverwinter Nights can be classed as mmorpgs, but they dont appear here, i think thats the point he is trying to make. There arent clear lines in definitions where something is or isnt an mmorpg.
The point was that it is similar to diablo 2. Diablo 2 isnt really classed by the Majority as an mmorpg so why is Guild wars?. Even though both are technically MMORPG.
Beta Tested: Lineage 2, Ryzom, City of Heroes, RYL, EverQuest 2 World Of Warcraft European Truly Loved: World of Warcraft
DOnt just post a link, because as ive already tried to explain their IS NO pure definition on what it stands for. And if you must know i got the diablo 2 and neverwinter nights being mmorpg of a web site too.
You spout off ideas, when really MMORPG stands for is Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing game. There is no persistance in the name otherwise it would be Persistand Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. PMMORPG.
Diablo 2:
Massive: Yes (10000 users on the realms)
Multiplayer: Yes
Online: erm ya
Role-Playing: uhuh
Game: duh
Neverwinter Nights:
Massive: Yes it can be (games can be connected through the use of in game portals)
Multiplayer: Yes
Online: Yup
Role-Playing: You betcha
Game: Ya.
Using ure same approach these two can be classified as MMORPGS.
Beta Tested: Lineage 2, Ryzom, City of Heroes, RYL, EverQuest 2 World Of Warcraft European Truly Loved: World of Warcraft
No. Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game experience must be simultaneous.
In D2 and Never Winter you CANNOT be PLAYING THE GAME with masses of other players in a persistant world. Sitting in a chatroom with a few others isn't massive.
That is THE definition, not my definition. Send an email to mmorpg.com staff and ask them, I'm sure they will be happy to clarify this for you. Don't take my word for it, do some reasearch and ask people who work in the industry what it means.
Like I've said, the fighting in Guild Wars is not simultaneous, but the town interactions are and the town areas are persistant. There is an economy (NPC controlled) which is Massive and persistant.
Originally posted by Tiberiux No. Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game experience must be simultaneous. In D2 and Never Winter you CANNOT be PLAYING THE GAME with masses of other players in a persistant world. Sitting in a chatroom with a few others isn't massive. That is THE definition, not my definition. Send an email to mmorpg.com staff and ask them, I'm sure they will be happy to clarify this for you. Don't take my word for it, do some reasearch and ask people who work in the industry what it means. Like I've said, the fighting in Guild Wars is not simultaneous, but the town interactions are and the town areas are persistant. There is an economy (NPC controlled) which is Massive and persistant. Therein lies the MMORPGness of Guild Wars.
Heh, the thing is what u described there sounds awfully familar to guild wars...
In Guild wars you CANNOT be PLAYING THE GAME with masses of other players in a persistant world. Sitting in a virtual chatroom with a few others isn't massive.
Beta Tested: Lineage 2, Ryzom, City of Heroes, RYL, EverQuest 2 World Of Warcraft European Truly Loved: World of Warcraft
It is NOT a "chatroom". That has to be the dumbest comparison of anything ever. Its a fully functional town (well, it will have more features upon release). Its a completely valid in-game environment, and the only thing you can't do in them is fight. Lack of violence does not equate to a chatroom. Hell, most "true" mmos have towns which consist of nothing more than a bunch of pllayer characters running automated private stores, with nothing really going on. Even in this alpha demo, there is more people running around in town and more things to do. If you think traditional mmo towns are somehow more "valid" than in GW, that's simply ridiculous, so much so that I can't believe its even up for debate at all.
Then there are the outposts. I suppose you could call those "virutal chatrooms", but that, like anything, is up to the player. The outposts have a specific purpose, and that is to group up and get into the action. But any multiplayer game can be considered a "virtual chatroom" if that's all you use it for, even your lame "true" mmos ..if you can find someone actually playing who's not a bot.
Guild wars is a MMORPG. At no point in a CHAT ROOM, nor is NVN a mmorpg, in NWN there is never a point where you can trade with others and buy stuff for your char.
As for hte world being pre-generated, I beg to differ emmensly, I dont know if you actually looked at the levels, perhaps you only saw the first part of the first level, but some good examples are the new mountain preview if you get far.. the caves are gorgous, and again at lvl 5 (which not many people might have seen) it was a tough fight, and the land was amazing, the level was layed out perfectly, and the area was beautiful, and looked like they took every detail to the extreeme.
if you dont like Guildwars dont play it, but when you start spewing garbage about the game, when you have only skimmed the surface is stupid.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
I don't really care what genre people wish to call it, but here's a few additional points I'd like to throw in:
Star Wars, an established "MMORPG", has implemented instanced & linear areas, with plans to add more. This is to add to the point someone made earlier about other games either still in development or just released that use instancing.
The Arena, composed of multiple districts, throws you into a PvP mission with random folks from across the board. Technically, you're engaging with just about everybody else through continuous battles. One could see that as a "Massively Multiplayer" aspect. Don't forget the other PvP missions that do the same.
My one concern is if they'll include PvE missions that toss in random folks, or perhaps make it a part of the existing system (people could either join up with specific people then begin the mission, or just begin the mission and start with random folks who either didn't want to make a group or wanted to meet new people).
Originally posted by tallsmartman If you wanna get technical, it is an MMORPG, it is not our typical one, but it is a Massive (there are tons of people there) Multiplayer (yes) Online (yes it is online) RP (roleplaying, yes because of stats XP, and the like) game (duh, its a game). So I think it fits on this site quite well... Is it a typical MMORPG? not a chance, but everybody knows that. I think your stating the obvious...
And the debate continues. Personally I think the persistant world has a lot to do with what makes something an MMORPG. NWN itself did not have a persistant world, some people created their own modules which basically acted like persistant MMORPGs, but in my opinion they really weren't all that great.
------------------- "Do I come to your workplace and tell you how to kill civilians? No, so don't tell me how to do my job" - Sam Fischer.
--OracleP4
------------------- "Do I come to your workplace and tell you how to kill civilians? No, so don't tell me how to do my job" - Sam Fischer.
--OracleP4
Like: DAoC, WOW, GW, DnL Dislike: SoR, EQ, EQ2, SWG, KO, AC2, CoH Don't Care About: Most Everything Else
Is Guild Wars an MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game)?
Guild Wars has some similarities to existing MMORPGs, but it also has some key differences.
Like existing MMOs, Guild Wars is played entirely online in a secure hosted environment. Thousands of players inhabit the same virtual world. Players can meet new friends in gathering places like towns and outposts where they form parties and go questing with them. Unlike many MMOs, when players form a party and embark upon a quest in Guild Wars, they get their own private copy of the area where the quest takes place. This design eliminates some of the frustrating gameplay elements commonly associated with MMOs, such as spawn camping, kill stealing, and lines to complete a quest.
Guild Wars takes place in a large virtual world made up of many different zones, and players can walk from one end of the world to the other. But Guild Wars eliminates much of the tedium of traveling through the world. Players can instantly return to any safe area (town or outpost) that they've previously visited just by clicking on it in the world overview map.
Rather than labeling Guild Wars an MMORPG, we prefer to call it a CORPG (Competitive Online Role-Playing Game). Guild Wars was designed from the ground up to create the best possible competitive role-playing experience. Success in Guild Wars is always the result of player skill, not time spent playing or the size of one's guild. As characters progress, they acquire a diverse set of skills and items, enabling them to use new strategies in combat. Players can do battle in open arenas or compete in guild-on-guild warfare or the international tournament. But engaging in combat is always the player's choice; there is no player-killing in cooperative areas of the world.
Finally, unlike existing MMOs, all characters in Guild Wars inhabit the same virtual world -- they are not divided onto different servers or shards -- so players can always team up with or compete against any other player in the world.
Well, you're entitled to your opinion p and not everyone can like every game. There are a lot of people that liked the demo and will be buying GW when it hits the market. One of those people will be me.
BTW, if you don't like a game say it but don't flame it.
"The probability of someone watching you is porportional to the stupidity of your action." Hartley's 1st Law
I think this game is by far more "m"MORPG then the others out there lol.
I played UO,AC,Mu and in non of this I even was in a group of 8 player fighting a mission lol. Not that its not possible. But still.
The max. I ever was in is 6 players but no mission just hack and slash the next monster. There was no strategy involved just click on it and kill it as fast as you can.
But here you got archers, mages, big, fast monsters and alot of skills to use aginst them.
We were really thinking how to defeat this one and that one. Had never so much fun then in this game.
The only problem is if there are missions. There shoud be 1000s of them since 100s can be won in 1 week easy and then it gets boring wouldnt you say?
But since the game supports Live stream they could possible add new missions every day or?
During the game left top there was a broken arrow. And sometimes numbers. I believe this was live updating?
The live download speed was great. I got all out of my 4Mbit line.
There are 2 types of 'roleplaying'. The games calling themselves 'RPG' simply mean that they have the experience based levelling and skill/class enhancements. This is more the mechanics of an RPG - the physical side, so to speak. In reality, most MMORPGs are fantasy based combat simulators with some click-click crafting thrown in. Both GW and WoW fit this categorization. GW, however, distills the combat simulation and removes downtime completely, so it's a better combat simulator.
The second aspect of roleplaying is the soul or mind of your character. This is where you live your alter ego - history, personality, knowledge, dreams, mannerisms, culture, likes, dislikes, etc. You react to the world, its environs, and its peoples based on how your character would react, not how you the player would react. An EQ1 example: an Ogre on a simple quest needs to solve a physical puzzle. After making a few turns of the gears, would the typical Ogre be able to solve the puzzle? Unless he got very lucky, no. This is where the player and the character split. The player goes online, finds the quest, learns the correct configuration, solves the puzzle and wins the quest. A typical Ogre would more than likely just smash the gears and move on. A GM in an RPG may reward the Ogre that smashes the gears and walks off. The MMORPG only rewards successful quest completion.
Without this soul, there is no intra-party conflict except maybe fights between players over where to hunt. The arguments and rivalries between Elf and Dwarf in many an enforced grouping are legendary, but not in today's MMOGs. Not a single game out there is an 'RPG' in this second sense.
I have been a alpha tester for awhile now and it is in no way a stereotypical contrast to exsisting MMORPG games. Matter of fact Anet has stated all along it really isn't a MMORPG Direct quote from the site:
Is Guild Wars an MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game)?
Guild Wars has some similarities to existing MMORPGs, but it also has some key differences.
Like existing MMOs, Guild Wars is played entirely online in a secure hosted environment. Thousands of players inhabit the same virtual world. Players can meet new friends in gathering places like towns and outposts where they form parties and go questing with them. Unlike many MMOs, when players form a party and embark upon a quest in Guild Wars, they get their own private copy of the area where the quest takes place. This design eliminates some of the frustrating gameplay elements commonly associated with MMOs, such as spawn camping, kill stealing, and lines to complete a quest.
Guild Wars takes place in a large virtual world made up of many different zones, and players can walk from one end of the world to the other. But Guild Wars eliminates much of the tedium of traveling through the world. Players can instantly return to any safe area (town or outpost) that they've previously visited just by clicking on it in the world overview map.
Rather than labeling Guild Wars an MMORPG, we prefer to call it a CORPG (Competitive Online Role-Playing Game). Guild Wars was designed from the ground up to create the best possible competitive role-playing experience. Success in Guild Wars is always the result of player skill, not time spent playing or the size of one's guild. As characters progress, they acquire a diverse set of skills and items, enabling them to use new strategies in combat. Players can do battle in open arenas or compete in guild-on-guild warfare or the international tournament. But engaging in combat is always the player's choice; there is no player-killing in cooperative areas of the world.
Finally, unlike existing MMOs, all characters in Guild Wars inhabit the same virtual world -- they are not divided onto different servers or shards -- so players can always team up with or compete against any other player in the world.
They have all along prefered to call it a CORPG something new. I have been a long time MMORPG player and I think that people tend to cookie cut the games as well and throw in their categories so everyone tries out E3 for you demo and goes this isn't like AC,EQ,DAOC,AO,etc..etc..etc.. because in fact oyur right it isn't. It is nothing like a contemporary MMORPG. There are pathing limits and instanced missions and there is direction to the story. No jumping off cliffs or roaming freely wherever you want to go. It is not so much level based as it is skill based. These things have been repeated here before but it seems to deaf ears.
Anyone that logged in and tried the Alpha out, not beta, alpha is pre-beta and says the game sucks needs to stop gaming in my opinion. For an alpha stage game it is one of the best looking and playing games I have personally ever had an honor to be involved in. We have ben testing those 4 mission areas for 2 months now and to watch them go from nothing but text areas to what they are now is simply incredible. Every game is not for every person so yes there will be those that do not like it but I got so sick of standing in town as well during E3 trying to help people and many of them were rude, obnoxious and just plain complained. There were many good folks as well mind you but hey Anet stated you are getting a taste of an alpha state game far from completion, far from open beta. What more can I say.....
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box. ~ Italian proverb
How could Guild War's quest/group system possibly be contrasted in a negative way with the traditional "mmorpg" ? Just because unlike other mmorpgs, in Guild Wars you can't roam aimlessly about a HUGE world by yourself doesnt make it "less" than other mmorpgs...In my opinion, I'd rather be forced into a large 8 player group and complete a fast paced, exciting quest, then run around a 500000 x 50000 acre world searching for something thats living...
man i love this argument....its an argument that really has no bearing on anything....or is really going to solve anything but those are the best kinds of arguments anyway. Okay sorry about my philosophy on arguments there....im not goin to argue whether or not this is a MMORPG or not cause frankly it shouldnt even matter..... One of the Admin's of the site posted a remark on my topic that i created stating that "CORPG's are different than MMORPG's but are covered by the MMORPG umbrella" so that is what really matters....so people that are whining about whether or not this is an MMORPG or not and shouldnt be allowed on this site should just stop....i mean its like when you were little and you whined for something and never got it...its pointless.
OK Here are my two points that most people are missing when they post about this game
1. First and the most important thing is that what everyone has judged so far was A DEMO...an alpha which comes before beta....which isnt the full game at all either....so we are judging a game that is two giant steps from becoming its full form.
2. That this game isnt persistent......and that Diablo 2 can be compared to it....the only thing that Diablo 2 resembles in this game is the action....no where in Diablo 2 could you find a world where quests were added into them through streaming...and anyone that played the E3 demo saw that. Diablo 2 didnt have towns where tons of people could meet to trade items and visit crafters and gem traders and armor traders etc..
That's exactly it. What defines Guild Wars as an MMORPG is the fact that there are large persistant towns where lots of players can interact (role play).
The actual combat is not MMORPG. But Guild Wars has MMORPG town areas.
This makes Guild Wars an MMORPG.
Combat is not a requirement for MMORPG (Sims anyone?)
Comments
If uve read tiberiux's two posts you realise that all 'pnwing' was aimed at him and not you, although even tho he was quoted in the other thread you still thought it was aimed at u......
.
He was originally quoted as being pwned by someone else because he said GW = MMORPG. NUFF SAID, No counter argument please.
WHich is really arrogant so when CIM respons with GW= CORPG from producers web site then it is a counter argument and it is a good one with good evidence so he was owned. He wouldnt have been pwned if he wasnt such a p rick about it.
Beta Tested: Lineage 2, Ryzom, City of Heroes, RYL, EverQuest 2 World Of Warcraft European
Truly Loved: World of Warcraft
Well, since Tiberiux did such a good job being an idiot without saying anything at all (Gosh I love those 11 year olds. Remove the keyboard just give them a mouse and Prozac), I think I will add my subjective definition of Guild Wars.
Its a console game.
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
If you had been around a bit more than a couple days, you would know that in my other posts, I COMPLETELY AGREE that Guild Wars is not a traditional MMORPG - or as the initial poster called it "True MMORPG".
This I have already agreed with time and time again.
I have never ever disputed that Guild Wars is like EQ or AO or whatever. In fact, one of my posts was a pro-con analysis of the two types of games.
For those who continue to insist that my argument was shattered by that quote, you continue to be wrong. I will sum it up as follows:
1) Arenanet have never stated that it is not an MMORPG.
2) Arentanet have stated that it is an MMORPG.
3) Arenanet have chosen to label their game CORPG for reasons that those who do not believe points 1 and 2 to be true cannot understand.
NOW TO ANSWER THE ORIGINAL POSTER...
Magus Original Post reads:
Subject: "This isn't a "True" MMORPG"
Since he never goes on to state what his DEFINITION Of TRUE MMORPG is, we have to ASSUME he is talking about games like EVERQUEST, ASHERONS CALL and similar.
If THAT is his definition of TRUE MMORPG, which it probably is, then NO Guild Wars is not a TRUE MMORPG by HIS DEFINITION. (for the real definition of MMORPG please see me previous post where I link the true definition)
Magus, then proceeds to say, and I quote,
"This game should be removed from this site since it isnt a MMORPG. It does not have a open large world, you can only enter the world if you are on a mission/quest, sometimes forcing you to have a party also. Just because you can have a guild and go to war with others doesn't make it a MMORPG. A MMORPG needs to have a huge free and open world."
Now, MaguS is making a horrible assumption. That HIS DEFINITION of "TRUE MMORPG" is THE REAL DEFINITION of MMORPG - Which it isn't.
It is HIS DEFINITION not the real technical definition.
If some of you on here, share his view, that is ok. HOWEVER, THE REAL DEFINITION of MMORPG is different to your own. The CHARACTERISTICS of MMORPG are DEFINED.
Games that meet those characteristics are MMORPG
Games that do not meet those characterisitics are not MMORPG.
www.mmorpg.com uses the REAL WORLD technical definition of MMORPG to classify which games are and are not MMORPG, NOT MaguS's definition.
This is why Giuld Wars will not be removed from this site. Because by technical definition it is an MMORPG and the folks at www.mmorpg.com understand this perfectly well.
Definition is a very common problem among internet forums. People take words that have a scientific definition to them, and apply their own meaning to the words from their own experiences. It is important to know what the real definition of something is before you attempt to argue about it.
Regards,
Evil-Killa(ToA) aka Tiberiux
Using that definition both Diablo 2 and Neverwinter Nights can be classed as mmorpgs, but they dont appear here, i think thats the point he is trying to make. There arent clear lines in definitions where something is or isnt an mmorpg.
The point was that it is similar to diablo 2. Diablo 2 isnt really classed by the Majority as an mmorpg so why is Guild wars?. Even though both are technically MMORPG.
Beta Tested: Lineage 2, Ryzom, City of Heroes, RYL, EverQuest 2 World Of Warcraft European
Truly Loved: World of Warcraft
A persistant world is a requierment for it to be MMORPG.
D2 and Never Winter do not have persistant worlds.
WHy is a persistant worl required?
DOnt just post a link, because as ive already tried to explain their IS NO pure definition on what it stands for. And if you must know i got the diablo 2 and neverwinter nights being mmorpg of a web site too.
You spout off ideas, when really MMORPG stands for is Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing game. There is no persistance in the name otherwise it would be Persistand Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. PMMORPG.
Diablo 2:
Massive: Yes (10000 users on the realms)
Multiplayer: Yes
Online: erm ya
Role-Playing: uhuh
Game: duh
Neverwinter Nights:
Massive: Yes it can be (games can be connected through the use of in game portals)
Multiplayer: Yes
Online: Yup
Role-Playing: You betcha
Game: Ya.
Using ure same approach these two can be classified as MMORPGS.
Beta Tested: Lineage 2, Ryzom, City of Heroes, RYL, EverQuest 2 World Of Warcraft European
Truly Loved: World of Warcraft
No. Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game experience must be simultaneous.
In D2 and Never Winter you CANNOT be PLAYING THE GAME with masses of other players in a persistant world. Sitting in a chatroom with a few others isn't massive.
That is THE definition, not my definition. Send an email to mmorpg.com staff and ask them, I'm sure they will be happy to clarify this for you. Don't take my word for it, do some reasearch and ask people who work in the industry what it means.
Like I've said, the fighting in Guild Wars is not simultaneous, but the town interactions are and the town areas are persistant. There is an economy (NPC controlled) which is Massive and persistant.
Therein lies the MMORPGness of Guild Wars.
Heh, the thing is what u described there sounds awfully familar to guild wars...
In Guild wars you CANNOT be PLAYING THE GAME with masses of other players in a persistant world. Sitting in a virtual chatroom with a few others isn't massive.
Beta Tested: Lineage 2, Ryzom, City of Heroes, RYL, EverQuest 2 World Of Warcraft European
Truly Loved: World of Warcraft
It is NOT a "chatroom". That has to be the dumbest comparison of anything ever. Its a fully functional town (well, it will have more features upon release). Its a completely valid in-game environment, and the only thing you can't do in them is fight. Lack of violence does not equate to a chatroom. Hell, most "true" mmos have towns which consist of nothing more than a bunch of pllayer characters running automated private stores, with nothing really going on. Even in this alpha demo, there is more people running around in town and more things to do. If you think traditional mmo towns are somehow more "valid" than in GW, that's simply ridiculous, so much so that I can't believe its even up for debate at all.
Then there are the outposts. I suppose you could call those "virutal chatrooms", but that, like anything, is up to the player. The outposts have a specific purpose, and that is to group up and get into the action. But any multiplayer game can be considered a "virtual chatroom" if that's all you use it for, even your lame "true" mmos ..if you can find someone actually playing who's not a bot.
The Obsidian Kings
Guild wars is a MMORPG.
At no point in a CHAT ROOM, nor is NVN a mmorpg, in NWN there is never a point where you can trade with others and buy stuff for your char.
As for hte world being pre-generated, I beg to differ emmensly, I dont know if you actually looked at the levels, perhaps you only saw the first part of the first level, but some good examples are the new mountain preview if you get far.. the caves are gorgous, and again at lvl 5 (which not many people might have seen) it was a tough fight, and the land was amazing, the level was layed out perfectly, and the area was beautiful, and looked like they took every detail to the extreeme.
if you dont like Guildwars dont play it, but when you start spewing garbage about the game, when you have only skimmed the surface is stupid.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
I don't really care what genre people wish to call it, but here's a few additional points I'd like to throw in:
Star Wars, an established "MMORPG", has implemented instanced & linear areas, with plans to add more. This is to add to the point someone made earlier about other games either still in development or just released that use instancing.
The Arena, composed of multiple districts, throws you into a PvP mission with random folks from across the board. Technically, you're engaging with just about everybody else through continuous battles. One could see that as a "Massively Multiplayer" aspect. Don't forget the other PvP missions that do the same.
My one concern is if they'll include PvE missions that toss in random folks, or perhaps make it a part of the existing system (people could either join up with specific people then begin the mission, or just begin the mission and start with random folks who either didn't want to make a group or wanted to meet new people).
[hr]
Dull but Sincere Filler
And the debate continues. Personally I think the persistant world has a lot to do with what makes something an MMORPG. NWN itself did not have a persistant world, some people created their own modules which basically acted like persistant MMORPGs, but in my opinion they really weren't all that great.
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"Do I come to your workplace and tell you how to kill civilians? No, so don't tell me how to do my job" - Sam Fischer.
--OracleP4
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"Do I come to your workplace and tell you how to kill civilians? No, so don't tell me how to do my job" - Sam Fischer.
--OracleP4
Like: DAoC, WOW, GW, DnL
Dislike: SoR, EQ, EQ2, SWG, KO, AC2, CoH
Don't Care About: Most Everything Else
Is Guild Wars an MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game)?
http://guildwar.com/faq/default.html
that would help. GW is CORPG
Angkore Empire ( AE ) on Guild War : http://gw.monsterandme.us
AE on other game : http://monsterandme.us
Lol, not another "this isn't a mmorpg thread".
Well, you're entitled to your opinion p and not everyone can like every game. There are a lot of people that liked the demo and will be buying GW when it hits the market. One of those people will be me.
BTW, if you don't like a game say it but don't flame it.
"The probability of someone watching you is porportional to the stupidity of your action." Hartley's 1st Law
I think this game is by far more "m"MORPG then the others out there lol.
I played UO,AC,Mu and in non of this I even was in a group of 8 player fighting a mission lol. Not that its not possible. But still.
The max. I ever was in is 6 players but no mission just hack and slash the next monster. There was no strategy involved just click on it and kill it as fast as you can.
But here you got archers, mages, big, fast monsters and alot of skills to use aginst them.
We were really thinking how to defeat this one and that one. Had never so much fun then in this game.
The only problem is if there are missions. There shoud be 1000s of them since 100s can be won in 1 week easy and then it gets boring wouldnt you say?
But since the game supports Live stream they could possible add new missions every day or?
During the game left top there was a broken arrow. And sometimes numbers. I believe this was live updating?
The live download speed was great. I got all out of my 4Mbit line.
I posted this elsewhere, but it fits here:
There are 2 types of 'roleplaying'. The games calling themselves 'RPG' simply mean that they have the experience based levelling and skill/class enhancements. This is more the mechanics of an RPG - the physical side, so to speak. In reality, most MMORPGs are fantasy based combat simulators with some click-click crafting thrown in. Both GW and WoW fit this categorization. GW, however, distills the combat simulation and removes downtime completely, so it's a better combat simulator.
The second aspect of roleplaying is the soul or mind of your character. This is where you live your alter ego - history, personality, knowledge, dreams, mannerisms, culture, likes, dislikes, etc. You react to the world, its environs, and its peoples based on how your character would react, not how you the player would react. An EQ1 example: an Ogre on a simple quest needs to solve a physical puzzle. After making a few turns of the gears, would the typical Ogre be able to solve the puzzle? Unless he got very lucky, no. This is where the player and the character split. The player goes online, finds the quest, learns the correct configuration, solves the puzzle and wins the quest. A typical Ogre would more than likely just smash the gears and move on. A GM in an RPG may reward the Ogre that smashes the gears and walks off. The MMORPG only rewards successful quest completion.
Without this soul, there is no intra-party conflict except maybe fights between players over where to hunt. The arguments and rivalries between Elf and Dwarf in many an enforced grouping are legendary, but not in today's MMOGs. Not a single game out there is an 'RPG' in this second sense.
AI has still to come a long way for this second type of RPG to be created.
Gamemasters in online computer games make the games terrible. Very good AI and an intuitive game world would be the only thing that would work.
We are still a few years away before this type of RPG comes out.
Would be cool if it could be done though. Or I should say, will be cool when its done.
I have been a alpha tester for awhile now and it is in no way a stereotypical contrast to exsisting MMORPG games. Matter of fact Anet has stated all along it really isn't a MMORPG Direct quote from the site:
Is Guild Wars an MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game)?
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Edmund Burke
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box. ~ Italian proverb
How could Guild War's quest/group system possibly be contrasted in a negative way with the traditional "mmorpg" ? Just because unlike other mmorpgs, in Guild Wars you can't roam aimlessly about a HUGE world by yourself doesnt make it "less" than other mmorpgs...In my opinion, I'd rather be forced into a large 8 player group and complete a fast paced, exciting quest, then run around a 500000 x 50000 acre world searching for something thats living...
My 2 gold pieces :P
What makes you think you have the right to tell this websites owners how they should run thier site.
The gall of some people.
D. Semsem: Epic Rogue / Fighter / Weapon Master; I was just lookin' at it, . . Jeez, relax.
man i love this argument....its an argument that really has no bearing on anything....or is really going to solve anything but those are the best kinds of arguments anyway. Okay sorry about my philosophy on arguments there....im not goin to argue whether or not this is a MMORPG or not cause frankly it shouldnt even matter..... One of the Admin's of the site posted a remark on my topic that i created stating that "CORPG's are different than MMORPG's but are covered by the MMORPG umbrella" so that is what really matters....so people that are whining about whether or not this is an MMORPG or not and shouldnt be allowed on this site should just stop....i mean its like when you were little and you whined for something and never got it...its pointless.
OK Here are my two points that most people are missing when they post about this game
1. First and the most important thing is that what everyone has judged so far was A DEMO...an alpha which comes before beta....which isnt the full game at all either....so we are judging a game that is two giant steps from becoming its full form.
2. That this game isnt persistent......and that Diablo 2 can be compared to it....the only thing that Diablo 2 resembles in this game is the action....no where in Diablo 2 could you find a world where quests were added into them through streaming...and anyone that played the E3 demo saw that. Diablo 2 didnt have towns where tons of people could meet to trade items and visit crafters and gem traders and armor traders etc..
That's exactly it. What defines Guild Wars as an MMORPG is the fact that there are large persistant towns where lots of players can interact (role play).
The actual combat is not MMORPG. But Guild Wars has MMORPG town areas.
This makes Guild Wars an MMORPG.
Combat is not a requirement for MMORPG (Sims anyone?)