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Mature, yet "childish" combat?
DrinkMilk
Member Posts: 31
First off, let me be clear. I am VERY much looking forward to this game, but I have to be somewhat sceptical to the combat system.
It all seems great on paper. "More skilled" play they say. And we go; "Horray" (heh, I'm a poet).
Anyways, a friend of mine works as a gaming journalist and got to test the game (as many others are now doing). And from what he told me he was a bit conserned over the "life" of this style of combat.
Sure it was cool and fun in the start, but so is the Nintendo Wii and its gamesytle. But to play hours like this is greatly tiresome.
They mark the game as a "mature" game, which is great. But the combat is actually arcade....something (at least in my opinion) is far from being reguarded as mature.
The way most MMOs are now, lets take WoW since it is played by most, this is more strategic. You have cooldowns etc. Meaning you need to plan and read each situation.
But AoC it more a Hack and Click fest. Some moves had cooldowns, but these were minimal, a few seconds at most. He could pound away like a madman.
To me this sounds awful, far from what I had hoped. Jump is there, so I see "gankers" jumping all over back and fourth like a madman pounding away the strikes, just like in WOW....only I fear it will be even more so. Since in AoC you dont "lock" on your target. You need to actually get your sword to hit him/her hence people will jump around to avoud getting hit.
Suddenly jumping is a strategy....
Personaly I was hoping "Jump" was disabiled during combat, and you would be forced to use your shield and time your attacks at your opponent....strife away from blows and counter your attacker with a sudden blow.....but no such luck.... 
But its still in beta, and we can hope they make changes.
Comments
I hope the devs do something about this .
If you have read alot interviews or reviews of this game.
Then you might have noticed that the game reporters only got to test lvl 10 charecters,
with only 2 quite easy combos., as characters gains more lvls/ feats they will get longer combos and more cooldowns
so i dont think the combat will be boring at all. And i think it will become more strategic than todays mmorpgs.
Really looking forward to this game, it looks awesome
I guess the fact that at level 10 you only have 2 quite easy combos might be a sign that there are better things to come.
Although I think even if you had 7 combos, unless they all have different status or secondary effects, you're just going to use the 1 or 2 that are the most powerful. So even then you'll only have 2 combos. Hopefully they add secondary effects to these combos, i.e. one combo slows the person and swings at their legs, one slows their attack speed by swinging at their arms, etc.
Unless they have this, people will only use the 1 or 2 most powerful combos, and that will get boring after putting hours upon hours into a game.
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
I hope bunny hopping isnt a viable tactic. Its ridiculous to think a guy in fullplate armor is gonna be hpping arouns like an idiot to avoid hits instead of using his shield and some strafe. Thats the main reason i dont play most FPSes anymore. I see no point in playing something like BF2 a game made to be like real life yet hopping is a viable tactic. Since when do you see people hopping in battlefields? You dont....theyd be dead. I know theres ways around it and it isnt an issue of me not being able to kill peopel who do it. But i think its something that kills strategy in a game and ruins the immersion.
I dont care if AoC has the bestc ombos and skill system ever, if hopping is a viable tactic then the PvP will be ruined imo. This is the ONE game im waiting for so i hope the devs will either do away with jumping or put some serious endurance meter in game which depletes like a mad man. Imo jumping should be for getting over obstacles in the map not for PvP.
Tell me, how does clicking on an enemy and pressing the same 3 buttons over and over when CDs are down make it any more strategic?
I hate to see games fail. Especially when they are trying something revolutionary. However, this style of combat could potentially be game breaking. Until it has been tested in an environment that will resemble live play, I'll keep my reservations about playing AoC.
Heh, well....I guess this isn't enough evidence yet for me to say, "I told you so." But we're getting closer to that day.
People have let themselves get worked up over the hype and have come up with some very exagerated ideas of how fantastic, realistic, complex, and tactical combat would be in AoC. The people who got sucked in the furthest by the hype are going to be sadly disappointed I'm afraid. But I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
I don't feel like getting drawn into another argument about this stuff. Right now I'm just waiting to see if I was correct about some of my predictions / analysis of the game.
When I think of arcade games, I think of mad button mashing with no real thought on what keys you're hitting. From what I've seen in AoC demos, you're much better off using combos than mashing one button. Mashing one button sounds more like WoW and other more traditional MMO's, where all you do is spam one, maybe two skills to kill stuff.
If AoC combat s based on having to aim (which it is), being able to dodge by strafing (which it is) and such ill be a happy man. If jumping around becomes a norm (which unless theres some hvy endurance penalties itl happen anyway) ill be highly disapointed. Like i stated earlier jumping should only be viable to surpass some map obstacles, not a viable combat strategy. Its makes no sense to me to have 50 v 50 man pvp and people jumping around like idiots etc. If there will be jumping then there HAS to be an endurance bar and the jumps shouls quickly deplete that bar asap. Jumping in combat ruins strategy and immersion.
So far every class in AoC seems unique in its approach to combat and i love that aspect so far. I want this game to have engaging pvp that is both fun and meaningful. But if it has jumping as a viable tactic in pvp then itl get overused and imo thatl kill pvp for me. And tbh pvp is the only reason i wanna play this game for. So ill wait and see as more details are released and then make a desicion.
I don't mind DDO's twitch combat and as long as it is something similar it shouldn't remind me too much of WoW.
I really hate the jumping, circling style of combat in WoW's pvp. I would prefer for someone with a two handed sword
not jumping around like a kid that has had too much sugar.
Until I see more videos of real people fighting each other (not designers), then I'll have to reserve judgement.
It is harder to hit a person that jumps.
A person that jumps has harder to hit you.
/Meh and walk away from the tard.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
The Game Designers Association would like to remind everyone that game designers are real people.Apply lemon juice and candle flame here to reveal secret message.
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If you remember, conan didn't wear all that much armor... Someone that goes without armor should get a "speed tank" and dodge/evasion bonus, and be able to jump, thus harder to hit. This would balance out the lack of armor with maneuverability. When you do get hit, it should really really hurt.
If you have 85 lbs. of armor on you should be able to jump 2 feet max and be a lot easier to land a sword on, even if it's harder to penetrate with the sword.
Someone that moves in and out timed with your swings, can jump 4 feet in the air, and can do it fast because they have nothing but a loin cloth on is perfectly balanced. Of course if you land one or two hits they are dead but it should be hard to hit them if they are a good player.
-Viz
Endurance depletion is a great idea. Adjusting aim while jumping and to a jumping foe is a great idea. Maybe have jumping different per what items you're wearing or what class you are. I could see a thief with a dagger do a lunging stab gracefully while a warrior in full plate could get one or two good jumps in and then have to stand their ground to catch their breath.
Low cuts could hinder the thief's ability to jump about and run. Which would probably be a common combo and before you know it 50 vs 50 would start out hectic. (as a line of warriors charging one another would) Then end with face to face grit to grit sluggish slugging. (which you know it did) Finally of course those who know the system well, they bide their time, then when it's down to who has who left standing, the one on one Howard-esq struggle between warriors will take place and then finally the battle would be over.
Your mind is frazzled. Your mouse has seen better days. Then it's off to your player city pub to bawl out lies and tall tales of what happened that day.
I'm still excited. The jumping deal can easily be fixed, or even used to help make certain classes even more useful.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
If you are worried about people jumping around during pvp, what the designers could do is make it so when you jump you can't attack while jumping or for 5 secs after. You wouldn't see anyone jumping unless they where just trying to run away.
Like I said before though, this game looks like it could be great but it will make or break based on the combat. I am hoping it is implemented well and rooting for AoC to be a good game.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
To the OP, I wouldnt worry about jumping in combat. There's already been talk of endurance and stamina, If you run you get tired we know that and I would say the same is true of jumping. So when someone starts bunny hopping in a fight its going to be detremental to themselves as they will tire out and you can chop them down.
QUOTE Athelan http://forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?p=213718
You can jump, but it won't server any use in combat in my opinion. The things you would legitimately use jumping for in combat are replaced by the avoidance moves. So no night elf ninja flipping spam jumping, but yes there is jumping.
QUOTE Athelan: http://forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?p=48224
Ive said this before I believe. I am not pro a level range system for restrictions. I am pro there being consequences for ganking someone 60 levels below you who was fighting another monster.
Ganking Quote Athelan: http://forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?p=258785
As any PVPer knows, there is power in numbers. Small groups of 2-3 results in mass ganking, pissing in people's cheerios, and the satisfaction that comes from it.
In the same regard, we learned that PVP skills/weapons will be purchased through specific PVP NPC vendors, and this raises the issue: Will you be able to get ganked at said vendors.
If I run into a border kingdom to buy a new dagger, and I'm loaded on blood money...and get ganked while browsing the store, most will be pissed. While this would be the most opportune time to steal some coinage, it can and will likely be the first and most abused way of getting coins easy. Creating a safe zone around the vendor only leads to people camping just outside the safe zone in an attempt to still gank you.
Personal opinion: Deal with it. Part of open PVP = open PVP. I can get ganked/shot/mauled in any particular area, and that's what makes it exciting. In the same note, I can be the giver, not the receiver of anal punishment, thus equality amongst PVPers
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This game is anything but a "hack and click" there is an immense and immersive crafting system in place, and lets us not forget building up your PvE city to maintain your PvP battlekeep! How awesome is that going to be!
Different classes will have different combos, and therefore the combo's you can have will be based on what you have learnt. I doubt a tester playing for 10 mins could possibly pass total judgement on the game as a whole as its in beta still with 5 months to go right!
Quote Jayde: http://forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?p=660456
I won't comment on the AE thing, because it would be extremely hard to explain how it actually feels in-game without you guys having played it yourselves. I can assure you that there are many good reasons for it and it will come together more obviously when the time comes.
In regard to combos, there are many different reasons the slots are limited. Some of these being:
1) Strategy -- You have to pick and choose which ones you wish to use. You also cannot swap combos out that are on cooldown, meaning you have to choose wisely. Coming up with a balance of short/long cooldowns and synergistic effects will be a good task for an active and thoughtful player.
2) Usability -- It's easier for most players to keep track of the combo sequences of 8 rather than their entire combo book, just a fact. Personally, I like playing with 6 combos a lot of the time, just because it doesn't clutter my combat rose as much.
3) Balance -- Combat and the Stamina pool are not designed for you to be able to spam 16 combos back-to-back. Combos are intended to be part of the combat system, not the only element of the combat system. Therefore, limiting access via cooldowns and limited choices helps emphasize the fact that combos should be used with some thought and preparation, not chain-spammed forever.
There are other reasons beyond this, but I can assure you that the limited slots are a large part of our vision for how combos should work. Infinite combos just wouldn't fit very well with how we envision combat to play out on a general basis.
Bottom line i wouldn't worry about this.
Enyalius
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If AoC would use something similar to the Fatigue system in oblivion, that maybe a long fight will exhaust your character and make him weaker or so? I just hope this game become as hardcore and skill-based as they say it will!
Honestly, the only complaint that I have about melee combat in Age of Conan is that Blocking & Parrying will be automated ; I really wish that AoC had some kind of manual toggle for "black mode" or "Parry mode".
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