So just because i want to play a game where the character im playing is a human other then white its racist or its not aloud because of the lore? Um why cant there be dark people mixed with the white people in the game. Its a game its not based on real life like you all said so why cant we mix these people together rather then having them living in seperate universes.
That in a medieval type mmorpg there is a place for different colored people such as black people. I say this because take a look at WoW and war especcially war where it will have no black people at all that there can be black characters that are playable, even LOTRO proved this and the movies had NO dark humans
The Warhammer Fantasy universe has analogs to all human races on earth.
The Empire= Germany
Cathay = china
Bretonia = biritsh/france
kislev = eastern russia
Actually I think the Africa and South American analog may have mostly Lizardman, but I think there are still humans of the appropriate race there. Not sure about North America since the Dark Elves probably killed most humans but there probably be some as slaves at least.
Anyway things are richer than you give them credit for and you are making bad assumptions off incomplete data.
That in a medieval type mmorpg there is a place for different colored people such as black people. I say this because take a look at WoW and war especcially war where it will have no black people at all that there can be black characters that are playable, even LOTRO proved this and the movies had NO dark humans
Anyway things are richer than you give them credit for and you are making bad assumptions off incomplete data. WOT?
The games settings are not based in those places they are made up places.
If they are made up of those places then they would want to replicate those places. I am sick of hearing this " why is there no black people in MMos" who cares. I am black and i would care less if there was a black race in any game, its a game for me, i dont need to be black in a game to have fun, and you shouldnt really look at the race becuase that usually procreates more racism. So just drop the subject and play the game.
Because id like to play something that would represent me rather then looking like some one else, would you play a MMO where youd only be a female all the time? NO and if you would not many others would, thats why archlord sucked for a reason because the good classes were female only. " Because id like to play something that would represent me rather then looking like some one else"
This has got to be the saddist, freakiest statement I've heard in a long while. You do realise that you are playing games, that these are not real life? You seriously need to step away from your computer and quickly discover what real life is. If you really are that detached from the real world go see a shrink, quickly. Last thing I want to see on the news is another idiot who said they were living out a computer game or the game made me do it.
So just because i want to play a game where the character im playing is a human other then white its racist or its not aloud because of the lore? Um why cant there be dark people mixed with the white people in the game. Its a game its not based on real life like you all said so why cant we mix these people together rather then having them living in seperate universes.
Because the people who created the lore didn't make it that way. Go dig up Tolkien and complain to him. Or go petition Games Workshop and complain to them. Games need to stick to the LORE that they are based on so that it will appeal to the fans of the content. Making a game and then just changing it because of political correctness is WRONG.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Well, Coolguy, I know what you are asking for and hopefully you get it. The only suggestion I have for you is to contact these companies and let them know how you feel. Also you should check out DDO, I know it's not the greatest game in the world but its by far not the worst. At the risk of sounding racist but not meaning to they have characters with larger lips, larger nostrils, similar eye shapes, and also small afros or even cornrows. You really should check it out you would be impressed. They should still have a free 10 day trial going that has been around for awhile.
In closing I wish you luck in finding what you desire.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
Within public health, there is disagreement about the meaning and use of the term "race." Often, public health scientists and the general public alike mistakenly base their notions of race on the idea that the human species can be separated into distinct human races identifiable through differences in physical traits (e.g., skin color, hair texture, facial features). Furthermore these ideas frequently carry with them the notion that these physical or other distinguishing traits have a basis in a homogeneous set of genes that differentiate races from one another. These ideas originated in the fifteenth century when the ability to support such ideas using sound scientific methods was not possible. Now, scientists from many disciplines (e.g., genetics, anthropology, sociology, biology) agree that there are no distinct human races as was previously claimed.
A more recently developed concept about race is ethnicity. This concept, which emerged in the late eighteenth century, is usually conceptualized as membership in a group defined by a shared geographical origin or cultural history, including common language, religion, art, and other cultural factors. Ethnicity is distinguished from race in public health studies. In North America, the most common ethnic group designation is Hispanic, or Latino/Latina.
Historically, there are examples of extreme human rights violations justified through the notion of biologically homogeneous race and ethnic groups. Eugenics has been used to target members of racial and ethnic groups with oppressive and genocidal societal policies and actions. Just before World War II, eugenics formed the basis of Nazi genocidal policies toward Jews, and in the early twentieth century it resulted in landholding and job exclusionary policies toward European immigrants to the United States. Race as a social construction and social fact continues to figure prominently in political and ideological relations and systems of contemporary societies worldwide.
Starting in the 1970s, scientific evidence began to accumulate to support the idea that races, as distinct biologically or genetically homogeneous groups of humans, do not exist. Geneticists have shown that only a very small proportion (6% or less) of human genetic variability occurs between so-called races. Furthermore scientists within other disciplines, such as biology and anthropology, have discarded such definitions of race based upon notions of biologic or genetic homogeneity. Rather, scientists recognize that the concept of race has been socially constructed—initially in the sixteenth century to justify economic exploitation and political domination of certain populations distinguishable by physical features such as skin color—and that race is a set of economic, political, and cultural relations that result in health and social inequalities.
Public health scientists continue to use various categories of race in research. The U.S. Office of Management and Budget (OMB), setting standards for the nation, recently recommended using the categories American Indian or Alaska Native, Asian, Black or African American, Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander, and White. The OMB recognizes that these categories represent a "sociopolitical construct" and "are not anthropologically or scientifically based."
In public health research, racial categories are often used to demonstrate inequalities in health status and other health-related factors such as access to and quality of health care. Unfortunately, some public health studies still interpret such inequalities as having a biologic or genetic basis. Thus, subtle and blatant forms of "scientific racism" and biological determinism are seen within the field of public health today. Public health scientists should be encouraged to use theories of race informed by current scientific evidence that so-called races are social constructs and social facts. Fortunately, public health studies have begun to identify and measure the social mechanisms (e.g., institutional and individual racism) that contribute to racial gaps rather than using race as a proxy for these exposures.
Hispanic is not a race. Latino is not a race. White is not a race. Black is not a race. African is not a race. European is not a race. Dark Italians are mixed with Mors which came from a little south of Europe BTW.
There are three races; mongoloid negroid caucasian
Or read below; Race and Ethnicity Within public health, there is disagreement about the meaning and use of the term "race." Often, public health scientists and the general public alike mistakenly base their notions of race on the idea that the human species can be separated into distinct human races identifiable through differences in physical traits (e.g., skin color, hair texture, facial features). Furthermore these ideas frequently carry with them the notion that these physical or other distinguishing traits have a basis in a homogeneous set of genes that differentiate races from one another. These ideas originated in the fifteenth century when the ability to support such ideas using sound scientific methods was not possible. Now, scientists from many disciplines (e.g., genetics, anthropology, sociology, biology) agree that there are no distinct human races as was previously claimed. A more recently developed concept about race is ethnicity. This concept, which emerged in the late eighteenth century, is usually conceptualized as membership in a group defined by a shared geographical origin or cultural history, including common language, religion, art, and other cultural factors. Ethnicity is distinguished from race in public health studies. In North America, the most common ethnic group designation is Hispanic, or Latino/Latina. Historically, there are examples of extreme human rights violations justified through the notion of biologically homogeneous race and ethnic groups. Eugenics has been used to target members of racial and ethnic groups with oppressive and genocidal societal policies and actions. Just before World War II, eugenics formed the basis of Nazi genocidal policies toward Jews, and in the early twentieth century it resulted in landholding and job exclusionary policies toward European immigrants to the United States. Race as a social construction and social fact continues to figure prominently in political and ideological relations and systems of contemporary societies worldwide. Starting in the 1970s, scientific evidence began to accumulate to support the idea that races, as distinct biologically or genetically homogeneous groups of humans, do not exist. Geneticists have shown that only a very small proportion (6% or less) of human genetic variability occurs between so-called races. Furthermore scientists within other disciplines, such as biology and anthropology, have discarded such definitions of race based upon notions of biologic or genetic homogeneity. Rather, scientists recognize that the concept of race has been socially constructed—initially in the sixteenth century to justify economic exploitation and political domination of certain populations distinguishable by physical features such as skin color—and that race is a set of economic, political, and cultural relations that result in health and social inequalities. Public health scientists continue to use various categories of race in research. The U.S. Office of Management and Budget (OMB), setting standards for the nation, recently recommended using the categories American Indian or Alaska Native, Asian, Black or African American, Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander, and White. The OMB recognizes that these categories represent a "sociopolitical construct" and "are not anthropologically or scientifically based." In public health research, racial categories are often used to demonstrate inequalities in health status and other health-related factors such as access to and quality of health care. Unfortunately, some public health studies still interpret such inequalities as having a biologic or genetic basis. Thus, subtle and blatant forms of "scientific racism" and biological determinism are seen within the field of public health today. Public health scientists should be encouraged to use theories of race informed by current scientific evidence that so-called races are social constructs and social facts. Fortunately, public health studies have begun to identify and measure the social mechanisms (e.g., institutional and individual racism) that contribute to racial gaps rather than using race as a proxy for these exposures.
Yes but the only race we see so far in many mmos out of the "Three" are caucasoid.
They are based off of western civilization lore. If you base a game off of combating in Western Europe you tend not to have too many darker skin individuals.
There are games out there that do have various options.
There are games that have only one and not the other.
Before you play a game, since this is a very important aspect of the game to you, try researching the game first.
In my eyes every human is colored. No reason to desire all of one or none of the other. The best thing to do is go after a story or lore that interests you the most and follow it.
By starting a thread that starts off wishing that Western European lore would have more darker skinned individuals in it is only going to start a racial argument.
Next time just say that you are happy that you have more options for skin color in a game like Vanguard. This option, even though this game lacks content or any actual enjoyable aspect, makes you happy.
Yes, I did mean Moors. Earlier in this post someone stated that some people from the now know region of Italy are dark skinned. Moors took over most of southern Europe.
I didn't read all 15 pages but just in case no one mentioned, you can play dark people in Lord of the Rings. Also, in EQ, erudites were darker. You can also color skin dark in City of Heroes/Villains. Those are three off the top of my head, so Vanguard didn't do anything revolutionary here.
I tried to find a map of the regions that they conquered, but I could not. The conquered most of Spain and lived there for a long time.
If you look at these maps you may notice that each region exchanges hands of different civilizations many times. If you are an individual who runs around calling yourself Irish or German or even French, you may want to look at these maps. You are all the same. Some may have more of an influence of one region more than the other. If you live in modern day Germany you may call yourself German. If you live in modern day Ireland you may call yourself Irish. If you live in modern day United States of America you drop those ignorant hyphenated labels and call your self American.
Calling yourself African-American or Italian-American or even Mexican American means you have dual citizenship between the two nations.
Something about the Moors.
Moors, nomadic people of the northern shores of Africa, originally the inhabitants of Mauretania. They were chiefly of Berber and Arab stock. In the 8th cent. the Moors were converted to Islam and became fanatic Muslims. They spread SW into Africa (see Mauritania) and NW into Spain. Under Tarik ibn Ziyad they crossed to Gibraltar in 711 and easily overran the crumbling Visigothic kingdom of Roderick. They spread beyond the Pyrenees into France, where they were turned back at Tours by Charles Martel (732). In 756, Abd ar-Rahman I established the Umayyad dynasty at Córdoba. This emirate became under Abd ar-Rahman III the caliphate of Córdoba. The court there grew in wealth, splendor, and culture. The regent al-Mansur in the late 10th cent. waged bitter warfare with the Christians of N Spain, where, from the beginning, the Moorish conquest had met with its only opposition. The cities of the south, Toledo, Córdoba, and Seville, speedily became centers of the new culture and were famed for their universities and architectural treasures (see Moorish art and architecture). With the exception of brief periods, there was, however, no strong central government; the power was split up among dissenting local leaders and factions. The caliphate fell in 1031, and the Almoravids in 1086 took over Moorish Spain, which was throughout the whole period closely connected in rule with Morocco. Almoravid control slowly declined and by 1174 was supplanted by the Almohads. These successive waves of invasion had brought into Spain thousands of skilled Moorish artisans and industrious farmers who contributed largely to the intermittent prosperity of the country. They were killed or expelled in large numbers (to the great loss of Spain) in the Christian reconquest, which began with the recovery of Toledo (1085) by Alfonso VI, king of León and Castile. The great Christian victory (1212) of Navas de Tolosa prepared the way for the downfall of the Muslims. Córdoba fell to Ferdinand III of Castile in 1236. The wars went on, and one by one the Moorish strongholds fell, until only Granada remained in their hands. Málaga was taken (1487) after a long siege by the forces of Ferdinand and Isabella, and in 1492 Granada was recovered. Many of the Moors remained in Spain; those who remained faithful to Islam were called Mudejares, while those who accepted Christianity were called Moriscos. They were allowed to stay in Spain but were kept under close surveillance. They were persecuted by Philip II, revolted in 1568, and in the Inquisition were virtually exterminated. In 1609 the remaining Moriscos were expelled. Thus the glory of the Moorish civilization in Spain was gradually extinguished. Its contributions to Western Europe and especially to Spain were almost incalculable—in art and architecture, medicine and science, and learning (especially ancient Greek learning).
games are meant to be enjoyed and have fun with. if your not havin fun then dont play the game. if you want a game thats fun then contact them and ask them for whatever you want in the game to make it more fun. if they dont do it then go to a different game. its not that hard. if you still are persistent to get that perfect game you want then make your own game. or if you have a friend in the makin of games business then ask him to do somthin.
Originally posted by Coolguy20 For one check out the guild wars black males and females THEY acctually LOOK black. Same with guildwars asians.
This explaination doesnt make the cut for me, sorry but you will have to explain what features beside skin color should black skinned people have to be considered black in your opinion, since u are the original poster....
Something other then a white looking guy with dark paint slapped on him and called a black guy. Guildwars is my explanation because if you want to know what features i want besides skin color once again look at guildwars, the different hairstyles the physcial features etc. I dont care about the enviorment or the surroundings but they actually make ethnic types look really good and diversed from once another.
So, when i ask for a further explanation i get the same one.... i guess that closes the debate... when the OP doesnt know what he wants, who will....
I just told you what i wanted diversity in mmos like vanguard and guildwars has, what more do you want me to say, i said i would love it if more games had the physcial looks etc like the blacks and asians in guildwars do in other games besides the slap the paint on the white looking guy.
WoW had the same thing as guildwars different looking human ethnic races. It was changed before beta. Like i said what more do you want me to say. Guildwars black people and asians are the closest looking to the real life races.
What you aren't understanding is that these games aren't based on REAL Life Races. Guild Wars has different ethnic races because their LORE has them. Same thing with Vanguard. Their LORE has different ethnic races. Games like LOTRO and WAR do not have LORE that has an asian or an african theme. So why would they have characters that look like that.
Cathay, Nippon, and Araby in Warhammer lore.
Haradrim, Easterlings, Umbar, to name a few in LOTR.
I think you are pretty much wrong in this regard. Not to mention the fact that humans in these fantasy games are not a static population. Wars, famines, plagues, trade, exploration, and simple human curiosity all play a role in moving populations even in these fantasy worlds.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
I am very sorry I can not say for sure which they are. I believe they are a mixture of all three or maybe just 2. I think they are Caucasian and Negroid, but they may have Mongoloid mixed in there somehow.
Originally posted by mcharj11
So out of the three races Caucasian, Mongoloid and Negroid they would come under mostly caucasian or.....?
For one check out the guild wars black males and females THEY acctually LOOK black. Same with guildwars asians.
This explaination doesnt make the cut for me, sorry but you will have to explain what features beside skin color should black skinned people have to be considered black in your opinion, since u are the original poster....
Something other then a white looking guy with dark paint slapped on him and called a black guy. Guildwars is my explanation because if you want to know what features i want besides skin color once again look at guildwars, the different hairstyles the physcial features etc. I dont care about the enviorment or the surroundings but they actually make ethnic types look really good and diversed from once another.
So, when i ask for a further explanation i get the same one.... i guess that closes the debate... when the OP doesnt know what he wants, who will....
I just told you what i wanted diversity in mmos like vanguard and guildwars has, what more do you want me to say, i said i would love it if more games had the physcial looks etc like the blacks and asians in guildwars do in other games besides the slap the paint on the white looking guy.
WoW had the same thing as guildwars different looking human ethnic races. It was changed before beta. Like i said what more do you want me to say. Guildwars black people and asians are the closest looking to the real life races.
What you aren't understanding is that these games aren't based on REAL Life Races. Guild Wars has different ethnic races because their LORE has them. Same thing with Vanguard. Their LORE has different ethnic races.
Games like LOTRO and WAR do not have LORE that has an asian or an african theme. So why would they have characters that look like that. You can't just include them just because. It has to fit into the world the creator made. In these cases LOTRO has to fit into the world that Tolkien created and WAR will need to fit into the world that Games Workshop created. Neither of these worlds have diversity in the human characters. Their human characters are based on Anglo-Saxon Europeans.
Would you get upset if a movie was made all about vikings and their were no african looking people as vikings? No of course not because that would be rediculous. The object is to make the game as close to the LORE and THEME of the world you are basing it on.
Cathay, Nippon, and Araby in Warhammer lore.
Haradrim, Easterlings, Umbar, to name a few in LOTR.
U complete missed the point... just because a fantasy world or the real world have mongoloid or negroid races in them you cant force someone who has made his own imaginary world to make it fit your standards. You have the option not to play it if you dont like it.
They are based off of western civilization lore. If you base a game off of combating in Western Europe you tend not to have too many darker skin individuals.
There are games out there that do have various options.
There are games that have only one and not the other.
Before you play a game, since this is a very important aspect of the game to you, try researching the game first.
If you believe I missed the piont please read one of my first posts.
They deleted my post in the first pages, anyways, what i wanted to say is that: i like character customization, it gives you the chance to be who you wish to be and not anyone else. In the past, the lore from wich most MMO's is taken was from another age, more race-biased, but heavens, we are in the XXIth century now, and I dont think race or racism has a place in our modern world, and it includes the MMO's.
I'm Euro-standard type, in WAR I wish to play a mutated pseudo-human chaoslord -are they nordic? No, they are Chaos, semi-alien-. And maybe as a 2nd char a BlackSkin ORC; but anyways, this is no a highly customizable char system in WAR. I dont mind a lot about races, but about individuals. And these individuals have to get the chance chosing whatever they want to be like in our NextGen MMO's. SWG improved it well too.
Say what you want to say about it the bottom line is that there is not a major MMO out there that doesn't have white people in it and I would not be afraid to bet that ,were there one that existed, it would not be heavily played.
Now all you MMO scholars go ahead and prove me wrong and link me ONE mmo out there that is heavily played and has no white representation in it. I'll give you 2 points for any MMO that has black people and no white people that is played at all.
One day my best friend and gaming buddy asked me what was my hangup about always playing black characters in MMO's. My answer was simple and true. I play them because I fear if I don't they will get phased out completely. "You see" I told him, "It is a white man's fantasy to live in a world where there ARE NO BLACK MEN!". It reminded us of that one joke about the black guy, the jewish guy, and the white guy that were all given one wish and we had a laugh. Then I got serious again. See it's easy for him, a white dude, to go on and play a dark elf or a troll because he lives in a world that provides him no such threat. For me though, racism and or discrimination is a part of my life that I have to live every day and as long as I can see it's ugly head I have to fight it in any way that I can.
This means that I was forced to endure an elongated head during my entire several years of EQ1. That I was in turn forced to be a human or submit to being a bald headed alien to stay true to that original race in EQ2. The first bug I typed up during my beta test of Horizons was that there were no options for making a black character. And I passed on Horizons, WoW, and several other games in my time because there were no options for black characters but more so because the only option for the human class was white.
The op talks about Vanguard but I recall the first shots of Vanguard I ever saw showing a brother with some cornrows on his head. I play that game and I can tell you now that there is no such option. It was a tactic to get brothers playing like many of the other tactics they used to get people hyped on their product. There is no bush (also referred to as an Afro) in the game either. Two hairstyles that are native to my historical culture. So suffice to say I currently play a black man incapable of growing a natural hairstyle in a game that has a continent the size of Africa dedicated to my races place of origin. Come on man! None of them have really gotten it right yet. 15 different kinds of mullets for a white man and one oppressed ush for a bother. SWG represented bettter.
All I know that we all come from a society that every day innundates us with pictures of one John Wayne white man taking on slews of whites and people of color in head to head combat and coming out the victor. I know that we live in a society where the greatest black people in history are systematically STOLEN over to the white world through media (Hannibal, Pope Gelasius I, Aesop, JESUS). What I can't believe though is that the masses can't rise above this stereotypical conquerers BS to understand that everyone else see's and knows what is happening too. We have all grown and a lot of us even know how to READ now.
How are you going to tell all the other races of your demographic (which has changed a lot since the 70's) that they can be white but if they want to choose any other option they will have to go to a stable of beasts and fairies? I don't care WHAT mythos you are drawing from!
How are you going to tell them that your title, created no later than the 1980's draws from a mythos that does not include other races or cultures or that you are incapable of thinking outside of the box of your racists forefathers to think to include those races where they previously may have been omitted due to a conquerers version of history which we as an intellectual nation are supposed to have risen above by now?
In defense of the white boys though I will say that it's not like a lot of black developers are out there setting up gaming companies and making MMO's. Out of site out of mind is the key phrase for the topic. I can't accuse someone who was simply raised not to think of me or my race of racism. I can accuse them of ignorance however because we are here, we have been here just as long as you have, and we will always be here because you are from us in blood and in history and so there is no reason short of betrayal to your own heritage (the true basis of most of these games) that you should decide to consistantly ignore us.
Kudos though, to those who understand that the internet unlike anywhere else on earth is vast and made up of all kinds of different people who want to have all kinds of fantasies and allow those people to have the chance to have those fantasies through their products. Those are the people I will give my money too and the rest can rot in obscurity as per their wishes for me and my race for all I care.
And yeah, I want the skin tone, the hair, AND the class. No hates on Conan but come on man, what made him, Tarzan, and all the other jungle-like white fantasy characters great was the AFRICAN-NESS of their characters. A weapon, maybe a shield, and a loincloth. THAT'S A BLACK THING BABY AND ALL YOU WHITE FOLK LOVE IT AND YOU KNOW YOU DO!! You're willing to go that far for YOUR fantasies but a black man in armor with a BIG ASSED AFRO is just too much of a stretch? And yes, I am a negroid that was willing to go there with it. Conan was Cimmerian and guess what sits right on the Cimmerian plate? Afganistan, Turkey, all your favorites. The closest thing to Conan in the age of steel is an Irish man (who also liked to run round half dressed) and Ireland is nowhere NEAR Cimmeria.
Do you really want to deal with that with all your quotes and your accuracies? That in the next big thing it will be you caucusoid people being "written in" to the mythos and us black folk actually being the dominant reality according to the theme?
We just need to get past it all really. I for one can't wait.
Comments
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
The Empire= Germany
Cathay = china
Bretonia = biritsh/france
kislev = eastern russia
Actually I think the Africa and South American analog may have mostly Lizardman, but I think there are still humans of the appropriate race there. Not sure about North America since the Dark Elves probably killed most humans but there probably be some as slaves at least.
Anyway things are richer than you give them credit for and you are making bad assumptions off incomplete data.
If they are made up of those places then they would want to replicate those places. I am sick of hearing this " why is there no black people in MMos" who cares. I am black and i would care less if there was a black race in any game, its a game for me, i dont need to be black in a game to have fun, and you shouldnt really look at the race becuase that usually procreates more racism. So just drop the subject and play the game.
Because id like to play something that would represent me rather then looking like some one else, would you play a MMO where youd only be a female all the time? NO and if you would not many others would, thats why archlord sucked for a reason because the good classes were female only. " Because id like to play something that would represent me rather then looking like some one else"This has got to be the saddist, freakiest statement I've heard in a long while. You do realise that you are playing games, that these are not real life? You seriously need to step away from your computer and quickly discover what real life is. If you really are that detached from the real world go see a shrink, quickly. Last thing I want to see on the news is another idiot who said they were living out a computer game or the game made me do it.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Well, Coolguy, I know what you are asking for and hopefully you get it. The only suggestion I have for you is to contact these companies and let them know how you feel. Also you should check out DDO, I know it's not the greatest game in the world but its by far not the worst. At the risk of sounding racist but not meaning to they have characters with larger lips, larger nostrils, similar eye shapes, and also small afros or even cornrows. You really should check it out you would be impressed. They should still have a free 10 day trial going that has been around for awhile.
In closing I wish you luck in finding what you desire.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
Hispanic is not a race.
Latino is not a race.
White is not a race.
Black is not a race.
African is not a race.
European is not a race.
Dark Italians are mixed with Mors which came from a little south of Europe BTW.
There are three races; mongoloid negroid caucasian
Before you speak or even type outloud try to get answers and educate yourself first.
Try this website; http://www.answers.com/topic/race-1
Or read below;
Race and Ethnicity
Within public health, there is disagreement about the meaning and use of the term "race." Often, public health scientists and the general public alike mistakenly base their notions of race on the idea that the human species can be separated into distinct human races identifiable through differences in physical traits (e.g., skin color, hair texture, facial features). Furthermore these ideas frequently carry with them the notion that these physical or other distinguishing traits have a basis in a homogeneous set of genes that differentiate races from one another. These ideas originated in the fifteenth century when the ability to support such ideas using sound scientific methods was not possible. Now, scientists from many disciplines (e.g., genetics, anthropology, sociology, biology) agree that there are no distinct human races as was previously claimed.
A more recently developed concept about race is ethnicity. This concept, which emerged in the late eighteenth century, is usually conceptualized as membership in a group defined by a shared geographical origin or cultural history, including common language, religion, art, and other cultural factors. Ethnicity is distinguished from race in public health studies. In North America, the most common ethnic group designation is Hispanic, or Latino/Latina.
Historically, there are examples of extreme human rights violations justified through the notion of biologically homogeneous race and ethnic groups. Eugenics has been used to target members of racial and ethnic groups with oppressive and genocidal societal policies and actions. Just before World War II, eugenics formed the basis of Nazi genocidal policies toward Jews, and in the early twentieth century it resulted in landholding and job exclusionary policies toward European immigrants to the United States. Race as a social construction and social fact continues to figure prominently in political and ideological relations and systems of contemporary societies worldwide.
Starting in the 1970s, scientific evidence began to accumulate to support the idea that races, as distinct biologically or genetically homogeneous groups of humans, do not exist. Geneticists have shown that only a very small proportion (6% or less) of human genetic variability occurs between so-called races. Furthermore scientists within other disciplines, such as biology and anthropology, have discarded such definitions of race based upon notions of biologic or genetic homogeneity. Rather, scientists recognize that the concept of race has been socially constructed—initially in the sixteenth century to justify economic exploitation and political domination of certain populations distinguishable by physical features such as skin color—and that race is a set of economic, political, and cultural relations that result in health and social inequalities.
Public health scientists continue to use various categories of race in research. The U.S. Office of Management and Budget (OMB), setting standards for the nation, recently recommended using the categories American Indian or Alaska Native, Asian, Black or African American, Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander, and White. The OMB recognizes that these categories represent a "sociopolitical construct" and "are not anthropologically or scientifically based."
In public health research, racial categories are often used to demonstrate inequalities in health status and other health-related factors such as access to and quality of health care. Unfortunately, some public health studies still interpret such inequalities as having a biologic or genetic basis. Thus, subtle and blatant forms of "scientific racism" and biological determinism are seen within the field of public health today. Public health scientists should be encouraged to use theories of race informed by current scientific evidence that so-called races are social constructs and social facts. Fortunately, public health studies have begun to identify and measure the social mechanisms (e.g., institutional and individual racism) that contribute to racial gaps rather than using race as a proxy for these exposures.
They are based off of western civilization lore. If you base a game off of combating in Western Europe you tend not to have too many darker skin individuals.
There are games out there that do have various options.
There are games that have only one and not the other.
Before you play a game, since this is a very important aspect of the game to you, try researching the game first.
In my eyes every human is colored. No reason to desire all of one or none of the other. The best thing to do is go after a story or lore that interests you the most and follow it.
By starting a thread that starts off wishing that Western European lore would have more darker skinned individuals in it is only going to start a racial argument.
Next time just say that you are happy that you have more options for skin color in a game like Vanguard. This option, even though this game lacks content or any actual enjoyable aspect, makes you happy.
Look at these maps.
http://etc.usf.edu/maps/galleries/europe/regional/index.htm
I tried to find a map of the regions that they conquered, but I could not. The conquered most of Spain and lived there for a long time.
If you look at these maps you may notice that each region exchanges hands of different civilizations many times. If you are an individual who runs around calling yourself Irish or German or even French, you may want to look at these maps. You are all the same. Some may have more of an influence of one region more than the other. If you live in modern day Germany you may call yourself German. If you live in modern day Ireland you may call yourself Irish. If you live in modern day United States of America you drop those ignorant hyphenated labels and call your self American.
Calling yourself African-American or Italian-American or even Mexican American means you have dual citizenship between the two nations.
Something about the Moors.
Moors, nomadic people of the northern shores of Africa, originally the inhabitants of Mauretania. They were chiefly of Berber and Arab stock. In the 8th cent. the Moors were converted to Islam and became fanatic Muslims. They spread SW into Africa (see Mauritania) and NW into Spain. Under Tarik ibn Ziyad they crossed to Gibraltar in 711 and easily overran the crumbling Visigothic kingdom of Roderick. They spread beyond the Pyrenees into France, where they were turned back at Tours by Charles Martel (732). In 756, Abd ar-Rahman I established the Umayyad dynasty at Córdoba. This emirate became under Abd ar-Rahman III the caliphate of Córdoba. The court there grew in wealth, splendor, and culture. The regent al-Mansur in the late 10th cent. waged bitter warfare with the Christians of N Spain, where, from the beginning, the Moorish conquest had met with its only opposition. The cities of the south, Toledo, Córdoba, and Seville, speedily became centers of the new culture and were famed for their universities and architectural treasures (see Moorish art and architecture). With the exception of brief periods, there was, however, no strong central government; the power was split up among dissenting local leaders and factions. The caliphate fell in 1031, and the Almoravids in 1086 took over Moorish Spain, which was throughout the whole period closely connected in rule with Morocco. Almoravid control slowly declined and by 1174 was supplanted by the Almohads. These successive waves of invasion had brought into Spain thousands of skilled Moorish artisans and industrious farmers who contributed largely to the intermittent prosperity of the country. They were killed or expelled in large numbers (to the great loss of Spain) in the Christian reconquest, which began with the recovery of Toledo (1085) by Alfonso VI, king of León and Castile. The great Christian victory (1212) of Navas de Tolosa prepared the way for the downfall of the Muslims. Córdoba fell to Ferdinand III of Castile in 1236. The wars went on, and one by one the Moorish strongholds fell, until only Granada remained in their hands. Málaga was taken (1487) after a long siege by the forces of Ferdinand and Isabella, and in 1492 Granada was recovered. Many of the Moors remained in Spain; those who remained faithful to Islam were called Mudejares, while those who accepted Christianity were called Moriscos. They were allowed to stay in Spain but were kept under close surveillance. They were persecuted by Philip II, revolted in 1568, and in the Inquisition were virtually exterminated. In 1609 the remaining Moriscos were expelled. Thus the glory of the Moorish civilization in Spain was gradually extinguished. Its contributions to Western Europe and especially to Spain were almost incalculable—in art and architecture, medicine and science, and learning (especially ancient Greek learning).
heres my last post here
games are meant to be enjoyed and have fun with. if your not havin fun then dont play the game. if you want a game thats fun then contact them and ask them for whatever you want in the game to make it more fun. if they dont do it then go to a different game. its not that hard. if you still are persistent to get that perfect game you want then make your own game. or if you have a friend in the makin of games business then ask him to do somthin.
Cathay, Nippon, and Araby in Warhammer lore.
Haradrim, Easterlings, Umbar, to name a few in LOTR.
I think you are pretty much wrong in this regard. Not to mention the fact that humans in these fantasy games are not a static population. Wars, famines, plagues, trade, exploration, and simple human curiosity all play a role in moving populations even in these fantasy worlds.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
I am very sorry I can not say for sure which they are. I believe they are a mixture of all three or maybe just 2. I think they are Caucasian and Negroid, but they may have Mongoloid mixed in there somehow.
This explaination doesnt make the cut for me, sorry but you will have to explain what features beside skin color should black skinned people have to be considered black in your opinion, since u are the original poster....
Something other then a white looking guy with dark paint slapped on him and called a black guy. Guildwars is my explanation because if you want to know what features i want besides skin color once again look at guildwars, the different hairstyles the physcial features etc. I dont care about the enviorment or the surroundings but they actually make ethnic types look really good and diversed from once another.
So, when i ask for a further explanation i get the same one.... i guess that closes the debate... when the OP doesnt know what he wants, who will....
I just told you what i wanted diversity in mmos like vanguard and guildwars has, what more do you want me to say, i said i would love it if more games had the physcial looks etc like the blacks and asians in guildwars do in other games besides the slap the paint on the white looking guy.
WoW had the same thing as guildwars different looking human ethnic races. It was changed before beta. Like i said what more do you want me to say. Guildwars black people and asians are the closest looking to the real life races.
What you aren't understanding is that these games aren't based on REAL Life Races. Guild Wars has different ethnic races because their LORE has them. Same thing with Vanguard. Their LORE has different ethnic races.
Games like LOTRO and WAR do not have LORE that has an asian or an african theme. So why would they have characters that look like that. You can't just include them just because. It has to fit into the world the creator made. In these cases LOTRO has to fit into the world that Tolkien created and WAR will need to fit into the world that Games Workshop created. Neither of these worlds have diversity in the human characters. Their human characters are based on Anglo-Saxon Europeans.
Would you get upset if a movie was made all about vikings and their were no african looking people as vikings? No of course not because that would be rediculous. The object is to make the game as close to the LORE and THEME of the world you are basing it on.
Cathay, Nippon, and Araby in Warhammer lore.
Haradrim, Easterlings, Umbar, to name a few in LOTR.
U complete missed the point... just because a fantasy world or the real world have mongoloid or negroid races in them you cant force someone who has made his own imaginary world to make it fit your standards. You have the option not to play it if you dont like it.They deleted my post in the first pages, anyways, what i wanted to say is that: i like character customization, it gives you the chance to be who you wish to be and not anyone else. In the past, the lore from wich most MMO's is taken was from another age, more race-biased, but heavens, we are in the XXIth century now, and I dont think race or racism has a place in our modern world, and it includes the MMO's.
I'm Euro-standard type, in WAR I wish to play a mutated pseudo-human chaoslord -are they nordic? No, they are Chaos, semi-alien-. And maybe as a 2nd char a BlackSkin ORC; but anyways, this is no a highly customizable char system in WAR. I dont mind a lot about races, but about individuals. And these individuals have to get the chance chosing whatever they want to be like in our NextGen MMO's. SWG improved it well too.
It is a question of fangs.
Say what you want to say about it the bottom line is that there is not a major MMO out there that doesn't have white people in it and I would not be afraid to bet that ,were there one that existed, it would not be heavily played.
Now all you MMO scholars go ahead and prove me wrong and link me ONE mmo out there that is heavily played and has no white representation in it. I'll give you 2 points for any MMO that has black people and no white people that is played at all.
One day my best friend and gaming buddy asked me what was my hangup about always playing black characters in MMO's. My answer was simple and true. I play them because I fear if I don't they will get phased out completely. "You see" I told him, "It is a white man's fantasy to live in a world where there ARE NO BLACK MEN!". It reminded us of that one joke about the black guy, the jewish guy, and the white guy that were all given one wish and we had a laugh. Then I got serious again. See it's easy for him, a white dude, to go on and play a dark elf or a troll because he lives in a world that provides him no such threat. For me though, racism and or discrimination is a part of my life that I have to live every day and as long as I can see it's ugly head I have to fight it in any way that I can.
This means that I was forced to endure an elongated head during my entire several years of EQ1. That I was in turn forced to be a human or submit to being a bald headed alien to stay true to that original race in EQ2. The first bug I typed up during my beta test of Horizons was that there were no options for making a black character. And I passed on Horizons, WoW, and several other games in my time because there were no options for black characters but more so because the only option for the human class was white.
The op talks about Vanguard but I recall the first shots of Vanguard I ever saw showing a brother with some cornrows on his head. I play that game and I can tell you now that there is no such option. It was a tactic to get brothers playing like many of the other tactics they used to get people hyped on their product. There is no bush (also referred to as an Afro) in the game either. Two hairstyles that are native to my historical culture. So suffice to say I currently play a black man incapable of growing a natural hairstyle in a game that has a continent the size of Africa dedicated to my races place of origin. Come on man! None of them have really gotten it right yet. 15 different kinds of mullets for a white man and one oppressed ush for a bother. SWG represented bettter.
All I know that we all come from a society that every day innundates us with pictures of one John Wayne white man taking on slews of whites and people of color in head to head combat and coming out the victor. I know that we live in a society where the greatest black people in history are systematically STOLEN over to the white world through media (Hannibal, Pope Gelasius I, Aesop, JESUS). What I can't believe though is that the masses can't rise above this stereotypical conquerers BS to understand that everyone else see's and knows what is happening too. We have all grown and a lot of us even know how to READ now.
How are you going to tell all the other races of your demographic (which has changed a lot since the 70's) that they can be white but if they want to choose any other option they will have to go to a stable of beasts and fairies? I don't care WHAT mythos you are drawing from!
How are you going to tell them that your title, created no later than the 1980's draws from a mythos that does not include other races or cultures or that you are incapable of thinking outside of the box of your racists forefathers to think to include those races where they previously may have been omitted due to a conquerers version of history which we as an intellectual nation are supposed to have risen above by now?
In defense of the white boys though I will say that it's not like a lot of black developers are out there setting up gaming companies and making MMO's. Out of site out of mind is the key phrase for the topic. I can't accuse someone who was simply raised not to think of me or my race of racism. I can accuse them of ignorance however because we are here, we have been here just as long as you have, and we will always be here because you are from us in blood and in history and so there is no reason short of betrayal to your own heritage (the true basis of most of these games) that you should decide to consistantly ignore us.
Kudos though, to those who understand that the internet unlike anywhere else on earth is vast and made up of all kinds of different people who want to have all kinds of fantasies and allow those people to have the chance to have those fantasies through their products. Those are the people I will give my money too and the rest can rot in obscurity as per their wishes for me and my race for all I care.
And yeah, I want the skin tone, the hair, AND the class. No hates on Conan but come on man, what made him, Tarzan, and all the other jungle-like white fantasy characters great was the AFRICAN-NESS of their characters. A weapon, maybe a shield, and a loincloth. THAT'S A BLACK THING BABY AND ALL YOU WHITE FOLK LOVE IT AND YOU KNOW YOU DO!! You're willing to go that far for YOUR fantasies but a black man in armor with a BIG ASSED AFRO is just too much of a stretch? And yes, I am a negroid that was willing to go there with it. Conan was Cimmerian and guess what sits right on the Cimmerian plate? Afganistan, Turkey, all your favorites. The closest thing to Conan in the age of steel is an Irish man (who also liked to run round half dressed) and Ireland is nowhere NEAR Cimmeria.
Do you really want to deal with that with all your quotes and your accuracies? That in the next big thing it will be you caucusoid people being "written in" to the mythos and us black folk actually being the dominant reality according to the theme?
We just need to get past it all really. I for one can't wait.