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Just curious when the merge for Cox will happen on mmorpg.com
dragonace
Member UncommonPosts: 1,185
As the title to the thread suggests, I'm curious when the staff at mmorpg.com will be merging City of Heroes and City of Villains into a single Forum and game on the top-seven list like they did with Guild Wars.
Since they have the precedence of doing it with Guild Wars I'm assuming it's only been an oversight that it hasn't been done yet. Or perhaps someone could point out an important difference between the two MMO's, and why they would be treated differently.
Afterall, can you even buy City of Heroes seperately from City of Villains anymore? Are they different games? Do they run on separate servers? Does it require a separate account with another monthly fee? No? Hmm.... perhaps it's only one game then.
I guess to me that's where the point of getting it's own forum and listing on the lists should be: Does it run on separate servers, and does it require a separate account and monthly fee?
That's why it wouldn't make sense to put EQ1 and EQ2 together - they run on totally separate servers and are two totally different accounts with their own monthly fee. The same with Lineage 1 and Lineage 2.
However, for a game like CoX; what would be the compelling reason to treat it differently than Guild Wars? Bias? Hmm.... your thoughts.
Comments
The difference with CoV and CoH and Guild Wars is the fact that the 2 City games are separate standalone games within 1 world that interact with each other. On the other hand the GW expansions require the original game to play them and expand on the original world. CoV and CoH are distinctly differing games based on the Cryptic engine and they interact with each other through that same engine. While CoV is considered part of the City game it is still separate when it comes to gameplay.
They run on the same servers as CoH, but don't directly interact with the hero characters of CoH except in certain areas. In one way it is 1 game but in the way the game plays CoV and CoH are totally separate games. Cryptic did something new and unique here and they did a very good job of it. You can buy CoV and play without ever having bought or played CoH, no other game expansion/addon does that.
Do you use the same account to logon to both CoH and CoV? Is it the same monthly billing for CoH & CoV?
I guess I'm just not seeing the distinction as two different games. They both run on the same server. They both use the same account and billing. To me that equals one game.
How is what CoH and CoV are doing different than LotrO's Monster Play? You get a monster charater (Villain) to play on the same account that your good characters (Hero) are on. The only difference I see is that it came packaged as one game from the get go. Whereas CoH & CoV added it down the line. Can you buy either one separately from the other now? (Heh, not counting E-bay).
I guess my reasoning is one account, one billing, one server = same game.
I'm genuinely curious about your choice of wording here. I'm not trying to pick on you, or start a flame-war. I'm just having a hard time grasping the concept here. I played CoX for awhile, but I'm not currently playing it.
I guess I'm not seeing where the "distinctly differing" part comes in. To me, games that are "distinctly differing" would be EvE vs. EQ2
Correct me if I'm wrong but are all these aspects the same in both except for the graphic skins?
Super-Hero MMO: check
Character creation: check
Combat play: check
Mission acquisition and completion: check
Powers: check
End-game: check
PvP: check
Granted on the one side you are "good" battling "evil" and on the other side you are "evil" battling "good", but that doesn't make them "distinctly differing". I haven't played the game as much as some of you though, so perhaps I'm missing how they differ so much. I'd be glad to listen to a constructive debate.
Never understood why the 2 are separated. It's the same game, you can play a bad guy or a good guy. It's 1 monthly fee that covers both. They should count as 1 game.
A logical person would have to assume that there is a different standard being applied to one game over the other.
Thought of a couple more points:
Are both CoH & CoV on the same issue? (Meaning that CoH was released first, and each free update is counted as an "issue" in CoX)
If they really are separate games shouldn't they be on different issue numbers?
Do they have separate test servers?
Afterall, since neither one "requires" the other, shouldn't a person be able to test out the new issues on the test-sever without the other side then?
Hmm... the evidence for a single game is starting to mount. Hopefully someone from MMORPG.COM can comment on what criteria is used to determine if a game qualifies as a separate game or not.
Same server, same account, same billing would seem to equal same game.
Guild Wars games are all stand alone campaigns and do not require the original to play them. If you buy them all on one account, however, you can let your character travel through all 3 campaigns.
So IMO yes, CoV and CoH should be put under a single forum because CoX are very much like Guild Wars in terms of linking the games.
The CoX forums should definitely be combined. The only real difference between the two are the classes and zones. But, most of the questions posted can be useful for both sides. Especially now that the game is being sold with both sides available.
"...and with that cryptic comment, I'm off to bed!"
Guild Wars games are all stand alone campaigns and do not require the original to play them. If you buy them all on one account, however, you can let your character travel through all 3 campaigns.
So IMO yes, CoV and CoH should be put under a single forum because CoX are very much like Guild Wars in terms of linking the games.
Ahh... good information to know about Guild Wars devilsin! I didn't know that. Even more evidence that CoX has been getting special treatment from MMORPG.COM. What would be the reason for treating the two games so differently?The one game (Guild Wars) they merged together in forum and top-seven listings quite awhile ago now. However the other (CoX) continues along as if it's two totally separate games. The more evidence that comes out, the more obvious it seems that a double-standard has been applied.
The reason that guild wars is probably in one section is because alot of people dont think it deserves a place on these boards, the developers of guild wars clearly stated when the game launched that it was not a mmorpg yet it is on mmorpg.com, so a way to keep people happy is to put it all in one section, however COX is a mmorpg, yet they are both one game so should really have one section but with both games allocated for.
In terms of forum posting, I only post in CoH. I've not even looked into CoV. Besides classes and zones, most support and help I've received on Heroes' side. No need to double post the same question in the Villian's side.
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
Exactly. It's actually a great help for those that play CoX. It consolidates all related questions and topic into one easy to find forum about the same game. Makes perfect sense. And, since MMORPG.COM is about making things easier and more intuitive for their users you'd think it would be a move that they would want to make. That's why I'm a bit confused as to why they have put off doing it for so long.
Yes, please. Absolutely merge them.
It makes no sense to me, either, why they are seperated.
Yeah, it will be interesting to see if those numbers for the poll hold up. I was guessing it would be about 3 to 1 for the merge, but right now it's a bit more than 4 to 1 for the merge. I wonder if MMORPG.COM is watching?
Kinda sad that there is no official word from mmorpg.com staff on this. You'd think they would at least say "We're considering a merge as we did with Guild Wars" or "It will stay as it is even though we merged Guild Wars".
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(Thread moved to site-suggestions).
(Thread moved to site-suggestions).
Ahh... good to hear JelloB2000I didn't realize there was a thread done on it already. However, as it appears it's long-gone or hard to find, perhaps this thread will suffice. Even though you've banished it to Site-suggestions.
I see you mentioned that "as long as its two seperate games"; well, what exactly would mmorpg.com use to determine that? Seeing that with COH & COV you use the same server, same billing, and same account. So, what exactly constitutes them as two separate games? Really, very curious how they were even thought to be two separate games in the first place.
If it's merely because they were sold in two separate boxes and each can be played without the other... well, the same holds true for Guild Wars and all its expansions. You can just buy the latest one without having to purchase an earlier one and be up and running. So, that obviously can't be the reasoning for CoX's status.
From what I remember GW-ratings where merged because the users requested it. (GW has only one expansion which is not yet released, there are three chapters which are stand-alone.)
I see no mention of merging the ratings for CoH-CoV in this thread but a complete merger which has not happened to any game(s).
My thoughts exactly, don't merge them.
You might be able to play CoV on it's own, but it doesn't in any way feel like anything but an expansion. I don't even know why they made it into anything else. It doesn't seem like very many people, at all, have it on it's own. Personally, I'd like it if NCsoft started treating it that way, themselves.
I don't have a strong opinion on the merge/no-merge discussion for CoH/V, however...
The way it works for the "top 7" display for GW is just wrong, IMHO.
It looks like the numbers are averaged, so right now GW is in the strange spot of taking 2 of the 3 top ratings individually (1st and 3rd), but only 4th in the top 7. I think it would be more informative to list the top game of the 3 in the top 7. That would be far more accurate without crowding out the other games. If CoH/V end up being "merged", it should work this way too.
Hi Guys,
I thought I would pop my head in here and clear some things up.
First of all, City of Heroes and City of Villains are indeed two separate games. Games based on the same system, yes, but still two separate games. People who have played both will tell you that there are indeed differences. For example, the classes are somewhat differently balanced. Boyond that, the level caps for the two games are different (or at least were for a time). Throw in the fact that you, as a hero, can not just walk around freely in the Rogue Isles, and a Villain can't walk around Paragon City. Yes, there is some overlap, but they are different games with different quests and adventuring areas for each side as a part of their own games. To me, that doesn't say expansion.
Guild Wars on the other hand, saw your character move through the different zones in a way that is much more similar to a standard expansion. The reason that they are listed separately at all is that they are, technically, stand-alone titles.
In short, as long as heroes and villains are separated into their own games, they are classified as two, distinct games. Often as well, players will identify themselves as either a City of Heroes or a City of Villains player (this isn't in all cases, but ha been my experience). For a number of players, the two communities are different.
As to the games being run on the same billing system, and with one monthly fee: There are a number of cases of this in the MMO world. No one is arguing that ebcause of the Station Pass, EverQuest II and say, Star Wars Galaxies are the same game.
Hope that clears things up.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com