Cheating - I just want to hear you say it

jesad

What is the point of botting, buying gold, and cheating the game in general?

The money is fake, the character is fake, the game will die (they all do eventually in some form).  So then what is the purpose of cheating it, even if only for the time you are playing, to achieve equal or higher levels than the pure player? 

JimmyLegs

To gain an edge or keep up. Most people that don't have the time to play 9 hours a day to farm and farm for various items and reasons buy gold to buy said items. Also botting is the same thing (more so to skip to the end which is stupid or say if your guild needs a healer class, you will power level or bot him to the level you need). Only reasons I can think of.

XTinTioN

I think people cheat cuz they want their boring job done...(grinding to lvl)

So...they cheat till they get high lvl and then they cheat for the equips...then they PVP i think :S

 

Well...basically -->     Cheaters = True n00bs

 

 

 

Cheers

Kyleran

Originally posted by jesad

What is the point of botting, <to power through the boring, grinding parts of most MMORPG's> buying gold, <to get some sort of advantage, or obtain something sooner than normally would be possible> and cheating the game in general? <To enjoy the game on a player's own terms, instead of the rules set by the developers>

The money is fake, <no, the in game money is quite real> the character is fake, <nope, wrong again, character looks same as anyone else's, except maybe better geared> the game will die (they all do eventually in some form). <and you'd be hard pressed to find a single game that died because of RMT>  So then what is the purpose of cheating it, <see above> even if only for the time you are playing, to achieve equal or higher levels than the pure player? <bingo, to keep up with, or exceed people who can spend far more time in game than they can>

Yes, RMT is cheating, which you already knew so not quite sure why you asked. (in fact, your entire post is rather redundant, isn't it)  But if you are bored on a Friday afternoon, we'll all be glad to play along.

ColdSun

THIS is a better topic than improving control choices in free to play MMOs?  Well since you invaded my topic with your crap let me just use my freedom of speech in your post.

Poor game design is frequently the cause of cheating.  Economy, Classes, Itemization and other factors that stop the casual player from competing with folks that have far more time than the average Joe.  Is cheating wrong?  Certainly.  IMHO, I would rather be lower level, less equipped and legit than use some bot or service to farm or level for me.  On the same note, if I find a game is just stupid hard for the sake of being stupid hard, and it becomes tedious and boring, I move on to something more fun.  One problem is that many people are very competitive about the characters and it gives them a feeling of achievement to accomplish something in an online game they usually don't accomplish in real life by comparison.  These people are either the biggest cheaters or the biggest complainers against cheaters (because cheaters effect their glorious in-game social status).  In either case, I think some people need to get out more often.

jesad

Coldsun - If your topic had been titled "Control choices in Free to Play MMO's" I might have been nicer to you in that string.  It wasn't so I wasn't. 

As far as cheating goes, I agree with you 100%.  Cheating does detract from the pure players feeling of accomplishment.  But isn't the pure players feeling of accomplishment the reason and format for creating these games?  Developers are not wasting valuable resources trying to make the game play-proof, they are wasting them to try and make the game cheat-proof.  Resources, I might add, that could be spent much more wisely on content, playability, and in general making the games more fun.

What most cheaters call "the boring stuff in the middle" the developers and the true players of the game call "THE GAME".

And Cold, if I need to get out more than so do you because you are right here with me right now, and worse, you are following me from string to string instead of trying to fix the mess you made of your own from the start.

Slampig

When you mentioned power leveling did you mean paying some "company" to PL your character for you? I am confused, when I think of power leveling I think of guildmates taking whatever baby toon that needs levels and running them through dungeons or helping kill high level mobs.

 

 

Peeyow!

ColdSun

I beg to disagree with you on messing up my string.  If you hadn't insulted me personally and aimed barbs at who I am (SUV driving, gas wasting, ebay cheating, etc) with your mad assumptions I wouldn't have followed you here to see this waste of space you call a post.  I'm assuming you don't like the word "Korean."  Is that something to be ashamed of?  Are they not the creators of most the free to play games?  If a person wants to send a message to those very developers, are they wrong in posting their nationality?  I think not.  They should be very proud of their accomplishments - I for one am one of their supporters.  Now, I apologize for the off-topic rant.. Back to the topic at hand... <One thing I will admit to - I should have made the thread "Korean Developers - Please consider adding WASD controls more often to your games">

The fact of the matter is that while wasting time on making games cheatproof takes away from the very time that could improve the game, people are going to cheat no matter what.  Its a deplorable human nature thing which we unfortunately have to deal with.  Or the developers can simply ignore it (like they do in many free to play games unfortunately) and then the game becomes a huge mess that no legit player can stand playing.  They have no choice but to put in certain safeguards against cheating if they want their game to be successful.  Sad but true fact.

GreenChaos

Any game in which a person pays someone to play part of it for them is a bad game.

I would like to make a negative comment about people who play bad games, but I won’t people there’s not too many choices as the moment, in the MMO market anyways.

People always want to make negative comments about the gold buyers.  But what about the game?  A game so damn boring people want to pay more just to skip stuff? 

ColdSun

That's exactly what I was saying when I said it was often poor game design. 

Take the case of WoW.  There are tons of botters, paid powerlevelers and gold farmers.  Blizzard is not messing with these folks but banning them outright as quickly as possible.  If WoW's game design is superior, why do people cheat in it so much?  Certain people are going to cheat no matter what.  Perhaps it is possible to remove the elements in a game's design that encourage them to take needless shortcuts.   I don't know... People always find a way to cheat the system though.  It totally stinks.

Gnazon

With the games that charge you for time spent playing the grind often is a device to keep the players from zooming through the game content too fast, and hence giving the company more subscription fees (just compare the grinds of WoW vs GW for example). While I do agree that is bad, and RMT is not the right solution to the grind problem, often it is the easiest one there is for us players.

I admit, I did buy WoW gold before (I did grind my first epic mount, but I was not going to go through all that again just to get them on my alts(pre TBC)), however I will never bot or pay someone to level up my characters. It is a fine line, I guess, but it is an important distinction to me.

Meltdown

I cheat.

Commence hate.

retrospectic

Originally posted by jesad


What is the point of botting, buying gold, and cheating the game in general?
The money is fake, the character is fake, the game will die (they all do eventually in some form).  So then what is the purpose of cheating it, even if only for the time you are playing, to achieve equal or higher levels than the pure player? 

There is a video I will not link to on youtube that is an interview with an anonymous botter.  He claims that he has leveled a character to 70 and does not want to continue to do the same quests over and over.  He also bots to make money to pay for the subscription cost of the game.

I do not agree with this.  I think botting, gliding, buying/selling gold, buying/selling characters goes against the game fundamentally.  The game is about working your way to the max level and learning your character along the way.  Botters are the same kind of people who can legitimize stealing anything.  The practices they employ make prices in the AH or other buy/sell options skyrocket.  They also bring players into the game who are trying out a character at max level.  This increases the possibility of have inept players in your group/guild/area.

It is bannable, and I hope glider and other botting programs are eventually eliminated.

Royspi

gold buying and power leveling doesnt bother me as much as exploiters. Especially in a game with pvp.

As far as selling gold.. I used to pay my UO subscription by doing it. UOTreasures used to offer a months game time for xx million gold (depended on your server). It was great since I was still young and couldnt get a credit card yet.

retrospectic

I would be in favor of botting/buying gold or character if the player who botted/bought had to wear a tag over their head that announced it.

For example:

Tom Junkface <Botter>

Or

Tammy Junkface <Gold Buyer>

That way I could avoid them.

bonobotheory

If "it's fake" is an argument against paying for extra gold, what's the point of paying to play at all?  Do you consider buying extra gold pointless in games where it's allowed (Ultima Online, EQ2 Exchange Servers)? What about paying for additional accounts? It's not against any rules, but according to your logic, it's bad - the player is paying extra to have something not everyone else has.

Some games have item shops. Some games have extra services available for a fee (Sony Station Players). Gold sales are just another service, offered by a third party.

ianubisi

Play the game the way you want to play it. There isn't much more to be said.

tenthring

Because most MMOs have massive design flaws, and people like to shortcut around them.  If you design an MMO that is fun all the time, nobody will want to skip out on the fun.

Tsolless

Look at it this way...

 

Someone works to make money.

They use that money to buy time on an MMORPG.

Someone plays on an MMORPG normally.

 

Time... Both of them used it to advance in a game. If a person works for it and uses that money on the game, I do not mind. It helps the economy.

retrospectic

Originally posted by Tsolless


Look at it this way...
 
Someone works to make money.
They use that money to buy time on an MMORPG.
Someone plays on an MMORPG normally.
 
Time... Both of them used it to advance in a game. If a person works for it and uses that money on the game, I do not mind. It helps the economy.

You mean the game's economy or the US's economy?

Buying gold and botting help to ruin MMORPG economies.  Players who can make money without playing the game will pay higher prices for goods.  While that might seem good it actually ruins the economy.  Players who are grinding a tradeskill cannot possibly buy the required tradeskill items from the AH.  Players who are trying to buy popular items will be forced to pay high prices for items that are not really worth that price.

 

retrospectic

Originally posted by tenthring


Because most MMOs have massive design flaws, and people like to shortcut around them.  If you design an MMO that is fun all the time, nobody will want to skip out on the fun.

I happen to think that WoW's level grind is one of the most enjoyable MMORPG grinds I've played.  I believe more people bot in WoW to either make real money or because they have played the level experience once and don't want to put in the time to learn another class.

So basically people bot because it is boring after one or two runs.  That is still bad practice.

tapeworm00

People are stupid. People are obsessive about "being at the top".  Bad design, or laziness and obsessiveness from the players? I think it's more related to the latter even if the earlier has a hand in the process that leads someone into considering to pay extra money or whatever just to get more fake goodies and electronic, unreal "fame" to satisfy a damaged ego.

To get a good grip on things such as these, we need a psychologist, and not some half-assed explanations about grind and "economy".

Supernerd

 

Originally posted by jesad


What is the point of botting, buying gold, and cheating the game in general?
The money is fake, the character is fake, the game will die (they all do eventually in some form).  So then what is the purpose of cheating it, even if only for the time you are playing, to achieve equal or higher levels than the pure player? 

The point is to be better than other players.That's the point of all mmorpgs.

 

I used to get mad at cheaters if i wasn't involved.,but my feeling have changed.

I figure if people are cooperating while they cheat and they get away with it ;

it is even more impressive.

Hey,it's not really cheating unless you get caught. so just look the other way.

Every game has cheaters...you're either cool or you don't cheat and  think  that dungeon master's have levals.

Unknown

"Cheaters never prosper." So the old saying goes.

The wisdom behind this old saying is as good as gold...things that you've worked hard for are vastly more valuable than those that you haven't. Human beings need to solve problems...they crave a challenge.

If the reader would like to test the validity of the old saying out...go buy a game that has an editor and lavish your guy with the best of the best and see how long you play the game.

Anofalye

I dunno from their perspective.

 

But personnally, there is nearly no greater pleasure then doing better then a cheater.  Doing better then someone who is buying stuff on ebay.  All the worst in me, my eviliest side, is actually feeding on competition.  When my good side tell the bad one that I have no reason to self restrain since they are cheaters afterall...the success is incredibly sweet.  And if a cheater does better then me, I got the perfect excuse, he cheats!  No shame in falling behind a cheater...only glory and honor.  

 

Cheaters provide more challenges, more options, more opportunities.  Devs have to fight them, to limit them, to counter them...but if they are too successfull, they are hurting their game; just as if they wouldn't be successfull enough.  Cheaters add to the game.

 

But, I really don't understand how a cheater thinks, and I don't really care...gah, it must really blow to "loses" despite cheating.

Dovieandi

Just a little food for though; a study conducted by an economist and Indian University estimated the total yearly domestic output of online games to range from seven to twelve billion dollars, putting online game GDP into the range of that of Nepal. Now, what was that about the stuff not being real?