While I don't agree with the op, I do feel this patch has more in it for the large 0.0 corps involved in lots of combat. Than those of us in smaller trader/mining corps.
Correction: Patches are free with Every MMORPG Expansions, however, are not. AFAIK there are only 5 MMORPG's that give free expansions:
Asheron's Call Dungeons & Dragons Online Lord of the Rings Online
All of the above are Turbine games
Lineage II
And
EVE Online
AFAIK there aren't any other MMORPG's out there that give free expansions. Revelations isn't a patch. It's a 3 part expansion to the game including:
New ships (6 so far) Modifications to existing gameplay New regions of space to explore and conquer Totally new sovereignty system for territory control Bringing in a whole new PVE aspect to the game: Factional warfare Expanding the game by allowing players to leave their ships and walk about and interact in space stations Massive and complete overhaul of the entire graphics engine including all currently existing artwork. New Missions New Skills New equipment
So yeah, the Patches are free... there are minor patches pretty frequently.... but the Expansions are free too. Revelations is an expansion. Revelations 2 is part 2 of the Revelations expansion. Revelations 3 is being worked on and will release sometime this winter.
Sorry but I am going to have to call you on this one.
First off... Rev is not an expansion, oh it's billed as an expansion but it not. You played the beta and knew what was supposed to be released at gold.
Every so called expansion in EVE so far was simply the actavation or relization of what was promiced to be in EVE at gold.
Lets put it another way, if you have a game and say these items will be in the game but becuase they are not ready are not released when the game goes gold. When you do release the promiced items,, that is not an expansion. That is simply providing the missing content that the buyers of the game expected when buying the game. Yes some things have changed a bit RE to Invention... But this is not new but simply CCP fulfilling what was promiced to be in game when it went gold.
Yes, I do take this part seriously because what sold me on EVE back in beta and what has always brought me back was the MFG/IND items that we were told were in game just not activate yet such as Reverse Engineering. So adding invention in via Rev is not an expansion.... Its simply me buying a car from you and you just now giving me the tires. Thats not an add on, thats why I bought the car.
To be honest, CCP calling Rev an expansion is them peeing on our legs and telling us it's raining. You have been in EVE long enought to know that.
CCP have released some stinkers, RMR made the game unplayable for the best part of a month. But at least it had some cool new ships. Revelations I broke scanning, but we got the tier II battlecruisers and tier III battleships to compensate. Revelations II has nothing new to compensate for the desync monter that it gave us. The POS changes, yawn, Bombs, very yawn. Heat, could I get the old interface back. No new ships. Boring bugged patch. Maybe in the future, instead of playing with their BoB alts, the devs could produce a decent patch. Might be a good plan, eh devs? It just as well that the patches are free, cause no one in their right mind would pay for them.
wow
I loved the changes and fixes implemented in this patch. I thought, as well as the general consensus of my corp (200+ members) that this was the smoothest patch yet. Not many "new" things, but definattely alot of nice fixes and small tweeks. The implementation of bombs and heat are a nice touch. It is only the second phase of a three part expansion.
Sorry but I am going to have to call you on this one.
First off... Rev is not an expansion, oh it's billed as an expansion but it not. You played the beta and knew what was supposed to be released at gold. Every so called expansion in EVE so far was simply the actavation or relization of what was promiced to be in EVE at gold. Lets put it another way, if you have a game and say these items will be in the game but becuase they are not ready are not released when the game goes gold. When you do release the promiced items,, that is not an expansion. That is simply providing the missing content that the buyers of the game expected when buying the game. Yes some things have changed a bit RE to Invention... But this is not new but simply CCP fulfilling what was promiced to be in game when it went gold. Yes, I do take this part seriously because what sold me on EVE back in beta and what has always brought me back was the MFG/IND items that we were told were in game just not activate yet such as Reverse Engineering. So adding invention in via Rev is not an expansion.... Its simply me buying a car from you and you just now giving me the tires. Thats not an add on, thats why I bought the car.
To be honest, CCP calling Rev an expansion is them peeing on our legs and telling us it's raining. You have been in EVE long enought to know that.
And I'm calling YOU as well. You always go on about how CCP promised this and that since beta. That's incorrect, they were things that they WANTED to add to the game after release. Some things work out and some don't but nowhere was anything that you are claiming set in stone as being in the game, especially Reverse Engineering. They said long ago that they had a version of it they were working on but were not happy and that they wouldn't put it into the game unless they were happy with it. Well they never ended up being happy with it and came up with invention instead. Reverse Engineering as a concept is dead fucking deal with it and quit whining about it already, you've had 2 years to grieve over its loss FFS.
As for nothing new being added to the game in expansions, I'm calling BS again. What were Destroyers and BC's then? How about Mining barges and Frieghters? How about Dreadnoughts and Carriers? You have proof that they were in the game before release and just not activated right? Right? Of course not. Of course exploration was in Beta but just wasn't activated either....oh wait.
The point is that EVE is an ever-evolving game, sometimes it evolves in ways you want it to and sometimes it doesn't but what you ultimately have to ask yourself is this: Will the game still be fun for me after this change. As soon as that answer is no then it's time to leave.
1. And I'm calling YOU as well. You always go on about how CCP promised this and that since beta. That's incorrect, they were things that they WANTED to add to the game after release. Some things work out and some don't but nowhere was anything that you are claiming set in stone as being in the game, especially Reverse Engineering. They said long ago that they had a version of it they were working on but were not happy and that they wouldn't put it into the game unless they were happy with it. Well they never ended up being happy with it and came up with invention instead. Reverse Engineering as a concept is dead fucking deal with it and quit whining about it already, you've had 2 years to grieve over its loss FFS.
2. As for nothing new being added to the game in expansions, I'm calling BS again. What were Destroyers and BC's then? How about Mining barges and Frieghters? How about Dreadnoughts and Carriers? You have proof that they were in the game before release and just not activated right? Right? Of course not. Of course exploration was in Beta but just wasn't activated either....oh wait.
3. The point is that EVE is an ever-evolving game, sometimes it evolves in ways you want it to and sometimes it doesn't but what you ultimately have to ask yourself is this: Will the game still be fun for me after this change. As soon as that answer is no then it's time to leave.
1. Ok first off, if you were in the beta and on the beta forums then you would know that there are things that were actually promiced, too that point back when it was still Kali CCP went on record and stated on several interviews that they were going to activate reverse engineering. It was not until they changed the name to rev that they sprung invention on us. Now. In the beta the devs said "there will be reverse engineering" when they were having the probs at the end of 03 the said "Reverse is in game if you know where to look" In 04 the devs said "We need to ballance reverse but that is how t2 BPO's will be created" and in 06 one of the selling points of kali was the devs sayying in interviews "with the kali patch we will be releasing Reverse Engineering"
Well i can accept that it is only me that would beleave that this was a promice or in Ovurer's own word " A carrot" to the long time players. And no, I have not had 2 years, it will be 1 year in Aug since the Devs last mentioned that it would be in game.
2. Actually, ask Taram about this. Dests are new but BCs, Freighters and maining barges as well as Personal Stations (not POS or Outposts) Mining super tankers(freighter sized), As well as 3 classes of ships between caps and BS were planned and discussed. Yes, the discussion was no more than "Over the next year we will be adding BS, Titans, Carriers 3 more classes of ships and personal housing as well as mining cap ships where your corps can use as a base for mining expeditions (the idea was to defend your moble mining refinery and your super tankers "freighters" and attack other corps' etc.... and that was all we needed was that promice of what was to come to be hooked.
3. QFT..
I want to make 2 things clear.
1. Taram is probly one of the most respected posters on at least this EVE forum, and I actually have total respect for him as he actually is usally spot on.. but once in a while the fanboi part of him takes over. Aslo I am not saying that there is absolutly nothing new. There as to be new some new stuff just for ballance issues. But take "bombs" for example. are they new? no they are a twisting of mines which if you ever used them then you would know that the applicating is simular. My point of contention is that , and by the Devs' own words(when speaking of Kali), Rev is a Patch or more to the point 3 patches that add entended content, fix ballance issues and will update for Vista.
2. I like EVE, I have been playing off and on for 4 years. I am nither a fanboi nor a hater. This is why I will call both sides on what they say.
First rule of Betas Lejohn... Anything promised means absolutely nothing. I don't think there has been a single MMO out there that was released with things promised in beta, Even the almighty benchmark WoW is still missing the Prestige/Hero classes.
A lot of closed Beta is finding out what works and what doesn't, some stuff may be a bit out of reach or just plain not worth it to put it.
Edited in closed before beta becasue well Open Betas are more just used as PR moves..
Correction: Patches are free with Every MMORPG Expansions, however, are not. AFAIK there are only 5 MMORPG's that give free expansions:
Asheron's Call Dungeons & Dragons Online Lord of the Rings Online
All of the above are Turbine games
Lineage II
And
EVE Online
AFAIK there aren't any other MMORPG's out there that give free expansions. Revelations isn't a patch. It's a 3 part expansion to the game including:
New ships (6 so far) Modifications to existing gameplay New regions of space to explore and conquer Totally new sovereignty system for territory control Bringing in a whole new PVE aspect to the game: Factional warfare Expanding the game by allowing players to leave their ships and walk about and interact in space stations Massive and complete overhaul of the entire graphics engine including all currently existing artwork. New Missions New Skills New equipment
So yeah, the Patches are free... there are minor patches pretty frequently.... but the Expansions are free too. Revelations is an expansion. Revelations 2 is part 2 of the Revelations expansion. Revelations 3 is being worked on and will release sometime this winter.
Sorry but I am going to have to call you on this one.
First off... Rev is not an expansion, oh it's billed as an expansion but it not. You played the beta and knew what was supposed to be released at gold.
Every so called expansion in EVE so far was simply the actavation or relization of what was promiced to be in EVE at gold.
Lets put it another way, if you have a game and say these items will be in the game but becuase they are not ready are not released when the game goes gold. When you do release the promiced items,, that is not an expansion. That is simply providing the missing content that the buyers of the game expected when buying the game. Yes some things have changed a bit RE to Invention... But this is not new but simply CCP fulfilling what was promiced to be in game when it went gold.
Yes, I do take this part seriously because what sold me on EVE back in beta and what has always brought me back was the MFG/IND items that we were told were in game just not activate yet such as Reverse Engineering. So adding invention in via Rev is not an expansion.... Its simply me buying a car from you and you just now giving me the tires. Thats not an add on, thats why I bought the car.
To be honest, CCP calling Rev an expansion is them peeing on our legs and telling us it's raining. You have been in EVE long enought to know that.
Not really... it IS an expansion. You yourself have to admit that the following will be new as a result of Revelations:
1) Graphics Upgrade
2) New classes of ships (Tier 2 BC & Tier 3 BS)
3) Bombs (yes they are similar to mines but mines were taken out because they were WAY overpowered)
4) Exploration (nothing we had before this and nothing in beta was even remotely close to what exploration does for the game)
5) Invention/reverse engineering. So what if they said it would be in during beta. It's here now. It wasn't included in the original game so you can't NOT call it an expansion just because you're sore that it wasn't included at release. I agree it's not much like what we were hoping for on reverse engineering but now that I've gotten used to it I kind of see where they're going with it. It's growing on me.
6) New regions.
7) New mission types
8) Story-arc missions
9) Entirely new Graphics Overhaul & Vista Conversion
10) Perambulation
11) Heat
I agree, many of the things we hoped for in beta haven't made it, or have trickled in over time. But to try to say Revelations isn't an expansion because a couple of the features resemble items we saw during beta is silly. EVE isn't perfect. Hell I'd MUCH rather still be playing SWG Pre-NGE but unfortunately I can't. EVE is the 'next best' to that world and it's where I'll be till something *better* comes along.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Ok, Taram you are correct, when all 3 are in place there will be enough new content to justify calling the complete thing an expansion.
As to mine, it was not that rthey were overpowered. It was a combanation of removing the random jump in (gate jumping implemented) and the removing of criminal flaggin for laying mines in empire that allowed players to lay mines 15k in line with the gates and the lag caused by all the mines being loaded to the client, that was the real problem.
And have you tried heat....
I would perfer that they gave us the ability to over load our warp core thus taking out a parsec
Oh and walking is station... well thats like planatary flight. was kicked around way back when and has morphed to the latest.
Ok, Taram you are correct, when all 3 are in place there will be enough new content to justify calling the complete thing an expansion.
It's the Revelations Expansion. All THREE patches are the expansion, always have been
As to mine, it was not that rthey were overpowered. It was a combanation of removing the random jump in (gate jumping implemented) and the removing of criminal flaggin for laying mines in empire that allowed players to lay mines 15k in line with the gates and the lag caused by all the mines being loaded to the client, that was the real problem.
Point remains that mines were removed because with the mechanics at the time of their removal they were overpowered.
And have you tried heat.... I would perfer that they gave us the ability to over load our warp core thus taking out a parsec
I've tried heat... it's actually pretty cool. Distance isn't measured in parsecs in EVE No way for 'warp' to work the way you're talking about. And there is already rigs that let you warp faster My interdictor warps at ~15au/s for example.
Oh and walking is station... well thats like planatary flight. was kicked around way back when and has morphed to the latest.
No it's not. Planetary flight is still planned. Probably start seeing it in the next expansion after revelations. Perambulation was always on the table. They just flipped the order that they're putting it in.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Originally posted by KOrnfan4evr Originally posted by Sramota
Originally posted by emptyballoon CCP have released some stinkers, RMR made the game unplayable for the best part of a month. But at least it had some cool new ships. Revelations I broke scanning, but we got the tier II battlecruisers and tier III battleships to compensate. Revelations II has nothing new to compensate for the desync monter that it gave us. The POS changes, yawn, Bombs, very yawn. Heat, could I get the old interface back. No new ships. Boring bugged patch. Maybe in the future, instead of playing with their BoB alts, the devs could produce a decent patch. Might be a good plan, eh devs? It just as well that the patches are free, cause no one in their right mind would pay for them.
You're obviously not cut for EVE so why are you playing it?
Also, all patches are always free in all MMOs.. all I see here is "whine whine whine, bitch bitch bitch" IF you ain't got nothing to say, don't speak, k? K. Mainly toward the PATCHES ARE ALWAYS FREE. $15 a month doesnt just pay for server, they also help pay teh wages of the employees working on patches and what not. Theres always some source of income for games, especially larger titles. Monthly income doesnt come completely free.
Not flame, just food for thought.
In that sense, yes.. However the statement "It just as well that the patches are free" from OP felt a bit... Off.. As I've never ever seen anyone actually charge a fee for a patch ...
Played so far: 9Dragons, AO, AC, AC2, CoX, DAoC, DF, DnL, DR, DDO, Ent, EvE, EQ, EQ2, FoMK, FFO, Fury, GW, HG:L, HZ, L1, L2, M59, MU, NC1, NC2, PS, PT, R:O, RF:O, RYL, Ryzom, SL, SB, SW:G, TR, TCoS, MX:O, UO, VG, WAR, WoW... It all sucked.
Ok, Taram you are correct, when all 3 are in place there will be enough new content to justify calling the complete thing an expansion.
It's the Revelations Expansion. All THREE patches are the expansion, always have been Err no, originally Kali was going to be 1 release and was refered to as the kali patch. It as not until CCP relized that there was no way to meet there dedline that the broke it up into 3 patches and renamed it Revelations.
As to mine, it was not that rthey were overpowered. It was a combanation of removing therandom jump in (gate jumping implemented) and the removing of criminal flaggin for laying mines in empire that allowed players to lay mines 15k in line with the gates and the lag caused by all the mines being loaded to the client, that was the real problem.
Point remains that mines were removed because with the mechanics at the time of their removal they were overpowered. I dissagree, just as the bombs, the mines did a specific type of dammage so they were ineffective against anyone that tanked that type of damage. Also the reasion they were pulled is because after using cans, then droids then starter ships all that was left that could be used to flood an area and lag out people jumping to it was mines.
And have you tried heat.... I would perfer that they gave us the ability to over load our warp core thus taking out a parsec
I've tried heat... it's actually pretty cool. Distance isn't measured in parsecs in EVE No way for 'warp' to work the way you're talking about. And there is already rigs that let you warp faster My interdictor warps at ~15au/s for example. Ok, I see that my humor is waisted here. You know what I ment, we had been asking for the ability to not just self destruct but to take every one close enough with us for years. Yes it would be abused but still it would be funny to have a group attack you and you SD taking out all the attackers.
Oh and walking is station... well thats like planatary flight. was kicked around way back when and has morphed to the latest.
No it's not. Planetary flight is still planned. Probably start seeing it in the next expansion after revelations. Perambulation was always on the table. They just flipped the order that they're putting it in.
Ok,, now you are jsut dissagreeing to dissagree. Read what i said, both have been talked about since the first beta but have morphed.. Ie. changed to what is being discussed now. If you remember the old beta forums we discussed being able to fight in the cities, take to the sky and battle there and continue the fight in space. Back then holding a system ment holding the planets and bases as well. Of course there was no possable way for CCP to do it back then but we were talking about the future EVE not what we were getting at release. In my statement I was using walking in statement as an example of what any one less than two years would consider a new idea, when as you said was always discussed. Thus you proved my point, that these are not new things but simply original ideas being added.
Now, the diffrince of oppinion here is what do you actually consider an expansion. Take Perambulation, which as you put it was always on the table as beeing added to the game, does emplimenting it constitute an expansion. Does adding content that the Devs wanted but did not have ready when a game launches constitute an expansion or is it a patch? Keep in mind that we are not takling about adding new content(ideas) but implementing content that was not ready. By not ready I am not saying still in the ether but like planatary flight, you have seen the demo. EVE can do it and have been able to for years, but it's not ready for implemention into the game.
Now, the diffrince of oppinion here is what do you actually consider an expansion. Take Perambulation, which as you put it was always on the table as beeing added to the game, does emplimenting it constitute an expansion. Does adding content that the Devs wanted but did not have ready when a game launches constitute an expansion or is it a patch? Keep in mind that we are not takling about adding new content(ideas) but implementing content that was not ready. By not ready I am not saying still in the ether but like planatary flight, you have seen the demo. EVE can do it and have been able to for years, but it's not ready for implemention into the game.
I actually agree here and while i agree that this is not a new thing but something that the devs have wanted for some time in eve im willing to bet tho that through this new section of eve we will soon begine to see new features stem from it. Such as a clothes and hair salon type shop. For changing ower clothing and hair style for isk .
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Originally posted by LeJohn Now, the diffrince of oppinion here is what do you actually consider an expansion. Take Perambulation, which as you put it was always on the table as beeing added to the game, does emplimenting it constitute an expansion. Does adding content that the Devs wanted but did not have ready when a game launches constitute an expansion or is it a patch? Keep in mind that we are not takling about adding new content(ideas) but implementing content that was not ready. By not ready I am not saying still in the ether but like planatary flight, you have seen the demo. EVE can do it and have been able to for years, but it's not ready for implemention into the game
From a game development standpoint that has to be one of the dumber things you said Lejohn, Normally I respect your opinions for at least having some thought be hind them but your missing it here. Perhaps I'm reading this wrong but to me you just said this:
"If developers plan out a lot of stuff to be in the game, including things that they know may not be in the initial release, they can they only have patches not expansions?"
You should know that unlike single-player games, MMOs Developers know they have to plan for expansions. And to keep the game from being completely screwed you need to do a lot more long term planning in the early development stages. Just because its being discussed before the game is released does not mean it can't be called a expansion in anyway shape or form. CCP is unique because they post these feature brainstorming notes on their website in the Drawingboard, Planning, and Testing sections.
Now sure things such as reverse engineering were talked about back to the days of castor and earlier. Not a big shock that as the game has evolved old ideas just don't always work right and have to be modified. Sure Invention isn't reverse engineering. But uh frankly Reverse Engineering as I saw tossed about would have been a complete waste. It needed to be changed and the invention system is much more of practical system based on the way the game works now. Planetary flight's demo was a joke, I watched it and saw something that was basically kitbashed onto the current game engine. You still had the space flight physics just with a planet graphic below you with a bounce map tossed on. EVE's game engine can't do it right now, don't know why you are thinking that it's lacking way too much stuff that can't be ignored on the ground. Mainly is some sort of joystick control. I can deal without it in space but its not going to fly when you hit atmosphere in what would be my guess most EVE players. If they scrap it and go for something that is more appropriate as time goes on, so be it.
Be glad that CCP tells us what they want to do in the future. And you should be happy when they realize that what they thought would be great 2 years ago doesn't work anymore because of how the game has changed.
Now, the diffrince of oppinion here is what do you actually consider an expansion. Take Perambulation, which as you put it was always on the table as beeing added to the game, does emplimenting it constitute an expansion. Does adding content that the Devs wanted but did not have ready when a game launches constitute an expansion or is it a patch? Keep in mind that we are not takling about adding new content(ideas) but implementing content that was not ready. By not ready I am not saying still in the ether but like planatary flight, you have seen the demo. EVE can do it and have been able to for years, but it's not ready for implemention into the game.
If it isn't included in the initial release and is added to the game at a later date then it's an expansion.
The definition of "expansion" is content and mechanics that are ADDED to the game AFTER release. Perambulation may have been possible in beta but it wasn't in the game at release. Planetary flight may have been possible in beta but it wasn't in the game at release. Exploration and Reverse engineering may have been talked about, discussed, planned or even tested during beta but they were NOT in the game at release. Thus if they are added AFTER release they are, by definition, an expansion to the original game.
As to Kali: Please show me just once where a dev said that Kali was going to be implemented in one big chunk? I don't recall anything like that... EVER. Kali was the code name for the package of ideas going into Revelations. As far back as I can remember Kali being discussed they said the features in Kali would be brought into the game through a series of patches just like RMR and other previous expansions had been.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Hey I didn't have to pay to patch or buy an upgrade expansion. Sure I am underwhelmed by the patch, but then again I really like the long-term approach EVE is taking to continuous addition of free content. Win some, lose some, but overall big win in the long run.
Comments
While I don't agree with the op, I do feel this patch has more in it for the large 0.0 corps involved in lots of combat. Than those of us in smaller trader/mining corps.
First off... Rev is not an expansion, oh it's billed as an expansion but it not. You played the beta and knew what was supposed to be released at gold.
Every so called expansion in EVE so far was simply the actavation or relization of what was promiced to be in EVE at gold.
Lets put it another way, if you have a game and say these items will be in the game but becuase they are not ready are not released when the game goes gold. When you do release the promiced items,, that is not an expansion. That is simply providing the missing content that the buyers of the game expected when buying the game. Yes some things have changed a bit RE to Invention... But this is not new but simply CCP fulfilling what was promiced to be in game when it went gold.
Yes, I do take this part seriously because what sold me on EVE back in beta and what has always brought me back was the MFG/IND items that we were told were in game just not activate yet such as Reverse Engineering. So adding invention in via Rev is not an expansion.... Its simply me buying a car from you and you just now giving me the tires. Thats not an add on, thats why I bought the car.
To be honest, CCP calling Rev an expansion is them peeing on our legs and telling us it's raining. You have been in EVE long enought to know that.
An so it begins
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.[/CENTER]
I loved the changes and fixes implemented in this patch. I thought, as well as the general consensus of my corp (200+ members) that this was the smoothest patch yet. Not many "new" things, but definattely alot of nice fixes and small tweeks. The implementation of bombs and heat are a nice touch. It is only the second phase of a three part expansion.
As for nothing new being added to the game in expansions, I'm calling BS again. What were Destroyers and BC's then? How about Mining barges and Frieghters? How about Dreadnoughts and Carriers? You have proof that they were in the game before release and just not activated right? Right? Of course not. Of course exploration was in Beta but just wasn't activated either....oh wait.
The point is that EVE is an ever-evolving game, sometimes it evolves in ways you want it to and sometimes it doesn't but what you ultimately have to ask yourself is this: Will the game still be fun for me after this change. As soon as that answer is no then it's time to leave.
2. As for nothing new being added to the game in expansions, I'm calling BS again. What were Destroyers and BC's then? How about Mining barges and Frieghters? How about Dreadnoughts and Carriers? You have proof that they were in the game before release and just not activated right? Right? Of course not. Of course exploration was in Beta but just wasn't activated either....oh wait.
3. The point is that EVE is an ever-evolving game, sometimes it evolves in ways you want it to and sometimes it doesn't but what you ultimately have to ask yourself is this: Will the game still be fun for me after this change. As soon as that answer is no then it's time to leave.
1. Ok first off, if you were in the beta and on the beta forums then you would know that there are things that were actually promiced, too that point back when it was still Kali CCP went on record and stated on several interviews that they were going to activate reverse engineering. It was not until they changed the name to rev that they sprung invention on us. Now. In the beta the devs said "there will be reverse engineering" when they were having the probs at the end of 03 the said "Reverse is in game if you know where to look" In 04 the devs said "We need to ballance reverse but that is how t2 BPO's will be created" and in 06 one of the selling points of kali was the devs sayying in interviews "with the kali patch we will be releasing Reverse Engineering"
Well i can accept that it is only me that would beleave that this was a promice or in Ovurer's own word " A carrot" to the long time players. And no, I have not had 2 years, it will be 1 year in Aug since the Devs last mentioned that it would be in game.
2. Actually, ask Taram about this. Dests are new but BCs, Freighters and maining barges as well as Personal Stations (not POS or Outposts) Mining super tankers(freighter sized), As well as 3 classes of ships between caps and BS were planned and discussed. Yes, the discussion was no more than "Over the next year we will be adding BS, Titans, Carriers 3 more classes of ships and personal housing as well as mining cap ships where your corps can use as a base for mining expeditions (the idea was to defend your moble mining refinery and your super tankers "freighters" and attack other corps' etc.... and that was all we needed was that promice of what was to come to be hooked.
3. QFT..
I want to make 2 things clear.
1. Taram is probly one of the most respected posters on at least this EVE forum, and I actually have total respect for him as he actually is usally spot on.. but once in a while the fanboi part of him takes over. Aslo I am not saying that there is absolutly nothing new. There as to be new some new stuff just for ballance issues. But take "bombs" for example. are they new? no they are a twisting of mines which if you ever used them then you would know that the applicating is simular. My point of contention is that , and by the Devs' own words(when speaking of Kali), Rev is a Patch or more to the point 3 patches that add entended content, fix ballance issues and will update for Vista.
2. I like EVE, I have been playing off and on for 4 years. I am nither a fanboi nor a hater. This is why I will call both sides on what they say.
An so it begins
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.[/CENTER]
First rule of Betas Lejohn... Anything promised means absolutely nothing. I don't think there has been a single MMO out there that was released with things promised in beta, Even the almighty benchmark WoW is still missing the Prestige/Hero classes.
A lot of closed Beta is finding out what works and what doesn't, some stuff may be a bit out of reach or just plain not worth it to put it.
Edited in closed before beta becasue well Open Betas are more just used as PR moves..
Sorry but I am going to have to call you on this one.First off... Rev is not an expansion, oh it's billed as an expansion but it not. You played the beta and knew what was supposed to be released at gold.
Every so called expansion in EVE so far was simply the actavation or relization of what was promiced to be in EVE at gold.
Lets put it another way, if you have a game and say these items will be in the game but becuase they are not ready are not released when the game goes gold. When you do release the promiced items,, that is not an expansion. That is simply providing the missing content that the buyers of the game expected when buying the game. Yes some things have changed a bit RE to Invention... But this is not new but simply CCP fulfilling what was promiced to be in game when it went gold.
Yes, I do take this part seriously because what sold me on EVE back in beta and what has always brought me back was the MFG/IND items that we were told were in game just not activate yet such as Reverse Engineering. So adding invention in via Rev is not an expansion.... Its simply me buying a car from you and you just now giving me the tires. Thats not an add on, thats why I bought the car.
To be honest, CCP calling Rev an expansion is them peeing on our legs and telling us it's raining. You have been in EVE long enought to know that.
Not really... it IS an expansion. You yourself have to admit that the following will be new as a result of Revelations:
1) Graphics Upgrade
2) New classes of ships (Tier 2 BC & Tier 3 BS)
3) Bombs (yes they are similar to mines but mines were taken out because they were WAY overpowered)
4) Exploration (nothing we had before this and nothing in beta was even remotely close to what exploration does for the game)
5) Invention/reverse engineering. So what if they said it would be in during beta. It's here now. It wasn't included in the original game so you can't NOT call it an expansion just because you're sore that it wasn't included at release. I agree it's not much like what we were hoping for on reverse engineering but now that I've gotten used to it I kind of see where they're going with it. It's growing on me.
6) New regions.
7) New mission types
8) Story-arc missions
9) Entirely new Graphics Overhaul & Vista Conversion
10) Perambulation
11) Heat
I agree, many of the things we hoped for in beta haven't made it, or have trickled in over time. But to try to say Revelations isn't an expansion because a couple of the features resemble items we saw during beta is silly. EVE isn't perfect. Hell I'd MUCH rather still be playing SWG Pre-NGE but unfortunately I can't. EVE is the 'next best' to that world and it's where I'll be till something *better* comes along.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Ok, Taram you are correct, when all 3 are in place there will be enough new content to justify calling the complete thing an expansion.
As to mine, it was not that rthey were overpowered. It was a combanation of removing the random jump in (gate jumping implemented) and the removing of criminal flaggin for laying mines in empire that allowed players to lay mines 15k in line with the gates and the lag caused by all the mines being loaded to the client, that was the real problem.
And have you tried heat....
I would perfer that they gave us the ability to over load our warp core thus taking out a parsec
Oh and walking is station... well thats like planatary flight. was kicked around way back when and has morphed to the latest.
An so it begins
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.[/CENTER]
It's the Revelations Expansion. All THREE patches are the expansion, always have been
Point remains that mines were removed because with the mechanics at the time of their removal they were overpowered.
I've tried heat... it's actually pretty cool. Distance isn't measured in parsecs in EVE
No it's not. Planetary flight is still planned. Probably start seeing it in the next expansion after revelations. Perambulation was always on the table. They just flipped the order that they're putting it in.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Also, all patches are always free in all MMOs..
all I see here is "whine whine whine, bitch bitch bitch"
IF you ain't got nothing to say,
don't speak, k? K.
Mainly toward the PATCHES ARE ALWAYS FREE. $15 a month doesnt just pay for server, they also help pay teh wages of the employees working on patches and what not. Theres always some source of income for games, especially larger titles. Monthly income doesnt come completely free.
Not flame, just food for thought.
In that sense, yes..
However the statement "It just as well that the patches are free" from OP felt a bit... Off..
As I've never ever seen anyone actually charge a fee for a patch ...
Played so far: 9Dragons, AO, AC, AC2, CoX, DAoC, DF, DnL, DR, DDO, Ent, EvE, EQ, EQ2, FoMK, FFO, Fury, GW, HG:L, HZ, L1, L2, M59, MU, NC1, NC2, PS, PT, R:O, RF:O, RYL, Ryzom, SL, SB, SW:G, TR, TCoS, MX:O, UO, VG, WAR, WoW...
It all sucked.
Actually some of those'Patches' were full blown expansions and those were free too.
It's the Revelations Expansion. All THREE patches are the expansion, always have been
Err no, originally Kali was going to be 1 release and was refered to as the kali patch. It as not until CCP relized that there was no way to meet there dedline that the broke it up into 3 patches and renamed it Revelations.
Point remains that mines were removed because with the mechanics at the time of their removal they were overpowered.
I dissagree, just as the bombs, the mines did a specific type of dammage so they were ineffective against anyone that tanked that type of damage. Also the reasion they were pulled is because after using cans, then droids then starter ships all that was left that could be used to flood an area and lag out people jumping to it was mines.
I've tried heat... it's actually pretty cool. Distance isn't measured in parsecs in EVE
Ok, I see that my humor is waisted here. You know what I ment, we had been asking for the ability to not just self destruct but to take every one close enough with us for years. Yes it would be abused but still it would be funny to have a group attack you and you SD taking out all the attackers.
No it's not. Planetary flight is still planned. Probably start seeing it in the next expansion after revelations. Perambulation was always on the table. They just flipped the order that they're putting it in.
Ok,, now you are jsut dissagreeing to dissagree. Read what i said, both have been talked about since the first beta but have morphed.. Ie. changed to what is being discussed now. If you remember the old beta forums we discussed being able to fight in the cities, take to the sky and battle there and continue the fight in space. Back then holding a system ment holding the planets and bases as well. Of course there was no possable way for CCP to do it back then but we were talking about the future EVE not what we were getting at release. In my statement I was using walking in statement as an example of what any one less than two years would consider a new idea, when as you said was always discussed. Thus you proved my point, that these are not new things but simply original ideas being added.
Now, the diffrince of oppinion here is what do you actually consider an expansion. Take Perambulation, which as you put it was always on the table as beeing added to the game, does emplimenting it constitute an expansion. Does adding content that the Devs wanted but did not have ready when a game launches constitute an expansion or is it a patch? Keep in mind that we are not takling about adding new content(ideas) but implementing content that was not ready. By not ready I am not saying still in the ether but like planatary flight, you have seen the demo. EVE can do it and have been able to for years, but it's not ready for implemention into the game.
An so it begins
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.[/CENTER]
I actually agree here and while i agree that this is not a new thing but something that the devs have wanted for some time in eve im willing to bet tho that through this new section of eve we will soon begine to see new features stem from it. Such as a clothes and hair salon type shop. For changing ower clothing and hair style for isk
.
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand
"If developers plan out a lot of stuff to be in the game, including things that they know may not be in the initial release, they can they only have patches not expansions?"
You should know that unlike single-player games, MMOs Developers know they have to plan for expansions. And to keep the game from being completely screwed you need to do a lot more long term planning in the early development stages. Just because its being discussed before the game is released does not mean it can't be called a expansion in anyway shape or form. CCP is unique because they post these feature brainstorming notes on their website in the Drawingboard, Planning, and Testing sections.
Now sure things such as reverse engineering were talked about back to the days of castor and earlier. Not a big shock that as the game has evolved old ideas just don't always work right and have to be modified. Sure Invention isn't reverse engineering. But uh frankly Reverse Engineering as I saw tossed about would have been a complete waste. It needed to be changed and the invention system is much more of practical system based on the way the game works now. Planetary flight's demo was a joke, I watched it and saw something that was basically kitbashed onto the current game engine. You still had the space flight physics just with a planet graphic below you with a bounce map tossed on. EVE's game engine can't do it right now, don't know why you are thinking that it's lacking way too much stuff that can't be ignored on the ground. Mainly is some sort of joystick control. I can deal without it in space but its not going to fly when you hit atmosphere in what would be my guess most EVE players. If they scrap it and go for something that is more appropriate as time goes on, so be it.
Be glad that CCP tells us what they want to do in the future. And you should be happy when they realize that what they thought would be great 2 years ago doesn't work anymore because of how the game has changed.
If it isn't included in the initial release and is added to the game at a later date then it's an expansion.
The definition of "expansion" is content and mechanics that are ADDED to the game AFTER release. Perambulation may have been possible in beta but it wasn't in the game at release. Planetary flight may have been possible in beta but it wasn't in the game at release. Exploration and Reverse engineering may have been talked about, discussed, planned or even tested during beta but they were NOT in the game at release. Thus if they are added AFTER release they are, by definition, an expansion to the original game.
As to Kali: Please show me just once where a dev said that Kali was going to be implemented in one big chunk? I don't recall anything like that... EVER. Kali was the code name for the package of ideas going into Revelations. As far back as I can remember Kali being discussed they said the features in Kali would be brought into the game through a series of patches just like RMR and other previous expansions had been.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Hey I didn't have to pay to patch or buy an upgrade expansion. Sure I am underwhelmed by the patch, but then again I really like the long-term approach EVE is taking to continuous addition of free content. Win some, lose some, but overall big win in the long run.