If Performance knocked Vanguard to the ground and nearly killed it, an end-game that is forced-raiding is its coup de grace. Everyone I know wants a better end-game than forced-raiding.
An end-game that is only raiding will not attract new people and it will not keep current subscribers, especially after they get through all the raiding.
What do you all think? I heard that people at max level cannot join the raids currently in the game without being in a guild. Unfortunately, these max level players have no solo epic quests to complete to obtain comparable gear or do "stuff." So, they might have no choice but to sit around or craft or do diplomacy, but many do not want to craft or do diplomacy.
Is Vanguard a FORCED game?
How do you raid in a game with no raiding implemented?
What do you all think? I heard that people at max level cannot join the raids currently in the game without being in a guild. Unfortunately, these max level players have no solo epic quests to complete to obtain comparable gear or do "stuff." So, they might have no choice but to sit around or craft or do diplomacy, but many do not want to craft or do diplomacy.
Is Vanguard a FORCED game?
How do you raid in a game with no raiding implemented?
Vanguard is a sandbox MMO with tons and tons of endless things to do; raiding being just one. He doesn't need any hand-holding carebear raid mechanics in order to have a blast raiding. It's sorta like how traveling an empty terrain devoid of anything to actually do besides sightsee is considered meaningful content, justifying the huge huge huge immersive world.
I guess you kind of have to be in your 40s and not enjoy McDonalds in order to understand how to raid in this game right now, along with everything else.
3 months ago when i played with my level 50 necromancer and my level 50 druid i had to be in a guild to raid. Back then there wasnt many 50s around thou raiding, so it could have all changed now. But 3 months ago, yes, it was forced.
You had 2 lvl 50s in VG 3 months ago? Geez...slow down buddy! lol
Vanguard is a sandbox MMO with tons and tons of endless things to do; raiding being just one
Yes, there is tons of things to do pre-max level. Tons of content. Tons of world to explore. It is almost difficult to describe; it is a true fantasy sandbox in that sense of the word. The world is GIGANTIC with TONS of content.
The end-game, though, is not necessarily just one option among many. People want more adventure options other than raiding when they are at the max level.
I can totally relate to what the "sandbox" people are saying. Eve online newbie chat struggles with constant questions of "what should I do next". Sometimes I am evil.. sometimes I am not. Mostly I am fickle.
BUT .. that said
I find it hard to beleive that there is a massive amount on content in VG especially given the free adminttance by developers that no developer toolkit was made alongside the game and the game was released unfinshed. I guess I see this as applying to quest driven linear stuff and also the missing features. Such as own personal flying mount.
As a contraversial end note : I'll also say that (sadly IMHO) sandbox RPGMMo's (particularly fantasy) might never be successful or produced in any quanity as most people simply do not play games lwith that mind set... . Maybe Im cynical... so with regard to the OP's post many games force groups and guilding (and grinding and grinding) over one person using there imagination to corner markets or start a mining company. Or anything else... ( damn to much Eve examples there!)...
BUT Maybe I need to be suspended by my nipples and beaten with a wooden bat for saying that but I am reaching that conclusion. Any takers ?
Right, can someone please explain to me why VG is considered a sandbox? I mean, I'd really like to get it, but having played UO, AC1 and EVE, I just don't understand why VG would ever be considered sandbox?
Right, can someone please explain to me why VG is considered a sandbox? I mean, I'd really like to get it, but having played UO, AC1 and EVE, I just don't understand why VG would ever be considered sandbox?
Missing content + overactive imagination = A Vanguard sandbox experience
'course saner minds believe games like Ultima Online are a prime example of a true sandbox MMO. Imagine Ultima Online with level requirements on jars of honey, an equipment expertise bar when a heater shield is adorned, houses that could only be built in predefined lots, mounts unlocked through quests requiring worldwide animal genocide. I guarantee Ultima Online wouldn't seem so sandbox then.
No idea why anyone believes Vanguard to be anything similar; it's the complete anti-thesis.
The most active people in this thread are people that do not play the game. Supposedly there are 926 views with 43 votes.
The people like sepher and random11, you seem to have a lot of time on your hands. You are active in a forum for a game you do not play. LOL. So, since you have so much time, will you please help me pick out a tie? www.raffaello-network.com/raffties/list_products.php
sepher, that was the most illogical post I have ever seen. If you read his post, which I unfortunately did, he is saying it is not what current players want but what prospective players want. He then assumes that prospective players want forced-raiding end-game.
No one wants forced-raiding end-game. People want raiding as an option among other things to do. Let me spell it out for sepher, because this guy has a very convolute way of thinking and expressing himself: nobody wants forced-raiding. No one will join Vanguard, your socalled "prospective players," because of forced-raiding. WoW's end game, pre TBC proved that players do NOT want force-raiding. If the end-game is all forced-raiding, then even the current subscribers will quit.
Gosh, what an intellectual brain.
Yeah, all 8 mill WoW players proved, how much they hate the concept of the game they play... indeed.
That is a ridicules statement. Blizzard itself admits that only around 30% of their players actually experience the total raid end game in WoW. The majority of those who raid feel it is like a chore/second job.
This was also one of the reasons why Blizzard scaled down the raids in the TBC expansion to 25 man raids and recently removed the attunement process for two 25 man raid dungeons ( Tempest Keep and Serpentshrine Cavern ) in the game as many people complained about the faction grinds required for those two dungeons attunement process.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
I could not agree more. "sepher" is spreading bad and wrong information not only about Vanguard but WoW. Totally clueless. WoW had to adjust and change a number of aspects of the game, particularly raiding, because the gaming community does not like to raid.
The gaming community particularly dislikes forced-guilding, and especially forced-guilding to experience forced-raiding, which is almost always at the end game. Developers need to get a bit more creative about the end-game then forcing everyone to join zerg-guilds to zerg-raid 3 to 5 times per week.
Will everyone that plays EQ2.5 *cough* I mean VG Raid? No... only those that want to experience what SOE has considered the only "endgame content" they can muster since EQ1...
That and faction grinds, lol
Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche
The most active people in this thread are people that do not play the game. Supposedly there are 926 views with 43 votes.
The people like sepher and random11, you seem to have a lot of time on your hands. You are active in a forum for a game you do not play. LOL. So, since you have so much time, will you please help me pick out a tie? www.raffaello-network.com/raffties/list_products.php
Sure thing, I'll help with the tie, I understand how for some people gaming takes away the social aspects of life, and thus are unable to chose proper clothing. Lucky for you, there are also gamers like me, who have an active social life, AND we shall help those in need. What occasion are you wanting to ware the tie for, and what else do you want to ware.
Now now, don't be ashamed to ask more things, everybody starts in a box, most of us eventually grow out of it, some keep growing in other types of boxes, like sandboxes, or in your case grindbox.
Vanguard's failure was alot of things but most of all it's just boring. Collect 30 spider legs here and collect 50 plants or kill 30 of this or that... blah blah boring... The only semi fun quest line I found was in exchange on thestra and that was when i was at lvl 15! The rest of the game was just the same ole same ole. Also the fact that they bunch and link a shit load of mobs together so when you pull one you get at least two or more is just stupid shit. Most everything in this game is forced grouping unless you are a shaman. On the PVP side of things if your a melee class your pretty much dead. A lvl 19 druid has no problems rooting a 40+ melee class over and over (I know I did it many times just for fun) .
The other problem with PVP in any of these games is you don't actually fight over land or anything for that matter. PVP is just for camping or ganking but nothing else. All the MMO's have some kind of back story about how orcs or w/e hate this race cause of this or that blah blah but on the PVP servers? nothing is fought over and nobody can take control of squat.
PVE? once again I hate PVE cause it's the same ole crap from one game to the next. Nothing new and it's very repetitive. I put up with PVE so I can PVP.
My sub finally ran out today in VG and I'm happy cause of it. I met some great people playing the game and was in a great guild but other than that the game just is boring. Couple the lack luster gameplay with the performance bugs and you end up with a MMO that has NO replayability.
NIce world is about the only good thing I can say about this game.
classes played
Sorc lvl 40
Dread knight lvl 32
Cleric lvl 44
Ranger lvl 48
Shaman lvl 24
Druid lvl 50.
VG much like SWG will just end up a game where most playing will just bitch about it in vent when playing it and keep asking "Why can't they do this?" or "Wish they would do that" or "I hope they do ... " or "WTF !! Do the devs even play this game!?"
Sure thing, I'll help with the tie, I understand how for some people gaming takes away the social aspects of life, and thus are unable to chose proper clothing. Lucky for you, there are also gamers like me, who have an active social life, AND we shall help those in need. What occasion are you wanting to ware the tie for, and what else do you want to ware.
Now now, don't be ashamed to ask more things, everybody starts in a box, most of us eventually grow out of it, some keep growing in other types of boxes, like sandboxes, or in your case grindbox.
Cheers!
"everyone starts in a box."
We both know you are insane. Do not deny it.
"there are also gamers like me, who have an active social life."
Sure thing, I'll help with the tie, I understand how for some people gaming takes away the social aspects of life, and thus are unable to chose proper clothing. Lucky for you, there are also gamers like me, who have an active social life, AND we shall help those in need. What occasion are you wanting to ware the tie for, and what else do you want to ware.
Now now, don't be ashamed to ask more things, everybody starts in a box, most of us eventually grow out of it, some keep growing in other types of boxes, like sandboxes, or in your case grindbox.
Cheers!
"everyone starts in a box."
We both know you are insane. Do not deny it.
"there are also gamers like me, who have an active social life."
We both know you are lying. Do not deny it.
well, I bet you didn't like symbolism, as a poetic movement.
Yeah, I have no social life: I am P of an NGO, and owner of a successful little corporation, just turned 21. Couldn't actually care less, if you believe me, since we obviously experience the events happening on a different level.
Comments
734 Views but only 35 votes?
If Performance knocked Vanguard to the ground and nearly killed it, an end-game that is forced-raiding is its coup de grace. Everyone I know wants a better end-game than forced-raiding.
An end-game that is only raiding will not attract new people and it will not keep current subscribers, especially after they get through all the raiding.
Boycott EA Games. RIP Sim City.
eqnext.wikia.com
How do you raid in a game with no raiding implemented?
Vanguard is a sandbox MMO with tons and tons of endless things to do; raiding being just one. He doesn't need any hand-holding carebear raid mechanics in order to have a blast raiding. It's sorta like how traveling an empty terrain devoid of anything to actually do besides sightsee is considered meaningful content, justifying the huge huge huge immersive world.I guess you kind of have to be in your 40s and not enjoy McDonalds in order to understand how to raid in this game right now, along with everything else.
You had 2 lvl 50s in VG 3 months ago? Geez...slow down buddy! lol
playing: darkfall
waiting: earthrise
Yes, there is tons of things to do pre-max level. Tons of content. Tons of world to explore. It is almost difficult to describe; it is a true fantasy sandbox in that sense of the word. The world is GIGANTIC with TONS of content.
The end-game, though, is not necessarily just one option among many. People want more adventure options other than raiding when they are at the max level.
Boycott EA Games. RIP Sim City.
I can totally relate to what the "sandbox" people are saying. Eve online newbie chat struggles with constant questions of "what should I do next". Sometimes I am evil.. sometimes I am not. Mostly I am fickle.
BUT .. that said
I find it hard to beleive that there is a massive amount on content in VG especially given the free adminttance by developers that no developer toolkit was made alongside the game and the game was released unfinshed. I guess I see this as applying to quest driven linear stuff and also the missing features. Such as own personal flying mount.
As a contraversial end note : I'll also say that (sadly IMHO) sandbox RPGMMo's (particularly fantasy) might never be successful or produced in any quanity as most people simply do not play games lwith that mind set... . Maybe Im cynical... so with regard to the OP's post many games force groups and guilding (and grinding and grinding) over one person using there imagination to corner markets or start a mining company. Or anything else... ( damn to much Eve examples there!)...
BUT Maybe I need to be suspended by my nipples and beaten with a wooden bat for saying that but I am reaching that conclusion. Any takers ?
Right, can someone please explain to me why VG is considered a sandbox? I mean, I'd really like to get it, but having played UO, AC1 and EVE, I just don't understand why VG would ever be considered sandbox?
'course saner minds believe games like Ultima Online are a prime example of a true sandbox MMO. Imagine Ultima Online with level requirements on jars of honey, an equipment expertise bar when a heater shield is adorned, houses that could only be built in predefined lots, mounts unlocked through quests requiring worldwide animal genocide. I guarantee Ultima Online wouldn't seem so sandbox then.
No idea why anyone believes Vanguard to be anything similar; it's the complete anti-thesis.
The most active people in this thread are people that do not play the game. Supposedly there are 926 views with 43 votes.
The people like sepher and random11, you seem to have a lot of time on your hands. You are active in a forum for a game you do not play. LOL. So, since you have so much time, will you please help me pick out a tie? www.raffaello-network.com/raffties/list_products.php
Boycott EA Games. RIP Sim City.
That is a ridicules statement. Blizzard itself admits that only around 30% of their players actually experience the total raid end game in WoW. The majority of those who raid feel it is like a chore/second job.
This was also one of the reasons why Blizzard scaled down the raids in the TBC expansion to 25 man raids and recently removed the attunement process for two 25 man raid dungeons ( Tempest Keep and Serpentshrine Cavern ) in the game as many people complained about the faction grinds required for those two dungeons attunement process.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
I could not agree more. "sepher" is spreading bad and wrong information not only about Vanguard but WoW. Totally clueless. WoW had to adjust and change a number of aspects of the game, particularly raiding, because the gaming community does not like to raid.
The gaming community particularly dislikes forced-guilding, and especially forced-guilding to experience forced-raiding, which is almost always at the end game. Developers need to get a bit more creative about the end-game then forcing everyone to join zerg-guilds to zerg-raid 3 to 5 times per week.
Btw, where is my tie?
Boycott EA Games. RIP Sim City.
Will everyone that plays EQ2.5 *cough* I mean VG Raid? No... only those that want to experience what SOE has considered the only "endgame content" they can muster since EQ1...
That and faction grinds, lol
Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche
Now now, don't be ashamed to ask more things, everybody starts in a box, most of us eventually grow out of it, some keep growing in other types of boxes, like sandboxes, or in your case grindbox.
Cheers!
Vanguard's failure was alot of things but most of all it's just boring. Collect 30 spider legs here and collect 50 plants or kill 30 of this or that... blah blah boring... The only semi fun quest line I found was in exchange on thestra and that was when i was at lvl 15! The rest of the game was just the same ole same ole. Also the fact that they bunch and link a shit load of mobs together so when you pull one you get at least two or more is just stupid shit. Most everything in this game is forced grouping unless you are a shaman. On the PVP side of things if your a melee class your pretty much dead. A lvl 19 druid has no problems rooting a 40+ melee class over and over (I know I did it many times just for fun) .
The other problem with PVP in any of these games is you don't actually fight over land or anything for that matter. PVP is just for camping or ganking but nothing else. All the MMO's have some kind of back story about how orcs or w/e hate this race cause of this or that blah blah but on the PVP servers? nothing is fought over and nobody can take control of squat.
PVE? once again I hate PVE cause it's the same ole crap from one game to the next. Nothing new and it's very repetitive. I put up with PVE so I can PVP.
My sub finally ran out today in VG and I'm happy cause of it. I met some great people playing the game and was in a great guild but other than that the game just is boring. Couple the lack luster gameplay with the performance bugs and you end up with a MMO that has NO replayability.
NIce world is about the only good thing I can say about this game.
classes played
Sorc lvl 40
Dread knight lvl 32
Cleric lvl 44
Ranger lvl 48
Shaman lvl 24
Druid lvl 50.
VG much like SWG will just end up a game where most playing will just bitch about it in vent when playing it and keep asking "Why can't they do this?" or "Wish they would do that" or "I hope they do ... " or "WTF !! Do the devs even play this game!?"
We both know you are insane. Do not deny it.
"there are also gamers like me, who have an active social life."
We both know you are lying. Do not deny it.
Boycott EA Games. RIP Sim City.
We both know you are insane. Do not deny it.
"there are also gamers like me, who have an active social life."
We both know you are lying. Do not deny it.
well, I bet you didn't like symbolism, as a poetic movement.Yeah, I have no social life: I am P of an NGO, and owner of a successful little corporation, just turned 21. Couldn't actually care less, if you believe me, since we obviously experience the events happening on a different level.