Originally posted by Anofalye I never believe in forcing players into a particuliar setting, gameplay or whatever. They should be able to progress in what they like. If players like to do something silly, then maybe you should develope this silly thing into gameplay and put in a progression, so they can do more and more of it and get fun and rewards out of it.
That is a really good idea, the more avaliable for the player to do the more potential for him to play.
For example, I always wanted to make a character that traveled around to different bars/cantinas/taverns and played jazz music for money, why I don't know, but it sounds fun and if it were avaliable, you bet I would make an alt for it. Think I would play a sax, then mingle with the patrons, and have a few drinks after I am done, yeah buddy.
yeah I think I like chaarcter progression very much. Right now playing "The Darkness" and it is fun to unlock new, dark gifts.
We should all have the option to acquire evertyhing we want doing what we love.
If there is gear- then I should have a viable method to acquire that via PVP
If I want to be a cook I should be able to progress my toon being a cook
I like skill based. I like power unlock. I like levels in single player games. I hate levels in any Coop RPG. I dont care how people spin it Levels place barrier between friends. Hard barriers.
Skill based system is better all the way for teaming. In Crackdown (skill based) my friends can always join my games no matter what
In coop level grinder RPGs if I outlevel them they get pissed
down with levels, lets get more skill based.
for single player RPG - levels is okay and fun
for multiplayer RPG - skill based ftw for teaming
edit- I think there is always progression I consider even us building a city together as progression and I would be happy with straight up sandbox with no goals. that is good thing bout Gary's mod for Half Life 2- no goals
I completely agree with the OP. Max level used to be a fantasy for most players, now NOT being max level means you are a total newb or doing something wrong.
Leveling up is more fun then endgame, sorry. Endgame can be good, but never as good as the journeys you make exploring and conqeuring the world as you level. Give me a game that takes the average player two years to hit the level cap... and you've taken the first step to doing things right.
Now add a new expansion every six months like EQ1 and youve got the right idea.... never-ending leveling up, always new content... just play till you dont want to anymore... instead of running out of things to do or repeating the same things over and over.
Grymm MMO addict in recovery! EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH, Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!
There does not have to be an endgame (and I agree, endgame is usually a bed thing), but there DOES have to be an END.
There will always come a point where you've simply done all there is to do in a game. Unless you are willing to reroll and replay, why not simply pack it in and move on? There is no other kind of game that people are unwilling to stop playing when it's over; why should MMOGs be different?
Whatever your personal answer, the REAL answer is that the developer and publisher want more of your money, so they perpetuate the myth that it shouldn't have to end. But guess what? There's only so much content. And to this point, player-generated content (be it ongoing PvP or roleplay or costume contests or whatever) can only stretch a game a tiny bit farther.
Maybe a game will come along that will allow for unlimited advancement, or at least unlimited, meaningful challenges, but that game is many years in the future. For now, a player's choices are reroll, move on, or sit around and complain.
There does not have to be an endgame (and I agree, endgame is usually a bed thing), but there DOES have to be an END. There will always come a point where you've simply done all there is to do in a game. Unless you are willing to reroll and replay, why not simply pack it in and move on? There is no other kind of game that people are unwilling to stop playing when it's over; why should MMOGs be different? Whatever your personal answer, the REAL answer is that the developer and publisher want more of your money, so they perpetuate the myth that it shouldn't have to end. But guess what? There's only so much content. And to this point, player-generated content (be it ongoing PvP or roleplay or costume contests or whatever) can only stretch a game a tiny bit farther. Maybe a game will come along that will allow for unlimited advancement, or at least unlimited, meaningful challenges, but that game is many years in the future. For now, a player's choices are reroll, move on, or sit around and complain.
PVP has no end; war is infinite. PVPers create content for each other. Every fight is different. The more complex the skill/class system; the more strategies we see
All games must have an end-game, but most of the time the end-game lacks vision, creativity, and is poorly developed. The consumer wants a lot of end-game options.
I don't consider "end game" to be the actual "end" of the gaming experience at all.
What I consider "endgame" is basically how the game is played after you've "maxed out" your character. I consider Guild Wars endgame to be when you've finished the campaigns and start getting into pvp. Lineage 2 endgame is when you're 75+ and get to play with all the top skills. Stuff like that. How the game is played after you reach the "end" of the learning/development phase.
If people tell me that a mmo "has no endgame", I will interpret that as there being no point in playing it after you've reached the level cap.
It's the difference in people's definition of "end-game"...
Some believe that MMO should never have "end-game", since it would mean "end of the game".
some say there is "end-game", and define it as activities after you have max your character's progression.
It's in the difference of design.
Linear progression (Level/Class based) would have what you call an "end-game", since there IS an end to the progression, so you will have other activities to do.
Sand-Box progression (Skills/Skill-trees based) would NOT have an "end-game". The reason being that you can continue your character's progression by switching template, skills, profession, and so on. You don't necessary NEED other activities to do since you are still working on your character.
Comments
That is a really good idea, the more avaliable for the player to do the more potential for him to play.
For example, I always wanted to make a character that traveled around to different bars/cantinas/taverns and played jazz music for money, why I don't know, but it sounds fun and if it were avaliable, you bet I would make an alt for it. Think I would play a sax, then mingle with the patrons, and have a few drinks after I am done, yeah buddy.
yeah I think I like chaarcter progression very much. Right now playing "The Darkness" and it is fun to unlock new, dark gifts.
We should all have the option to acquire evertyhing we want doing what we love.
If there is gear- then I should have a viable method to acquire that via PVP
If I want to be a cook I should be able to progress my toon being a cook
I like skill based. I like power unlock. I like levels in single player games. I hate levels in any Coop RPG. I dont care how people spin it Levels place barrier between friends. Hard barriers.
Skill based system is better all the way for teaming. In Crackdown (skill based) my friends can always join my games no matter what
In coop level grinder RPGs if I outlevel them they get pissed
down with levels, lets get more skill based.
for single player RPG - levels is okay and fun
for multiplayer RPG - skill based ftw for teaming
edit- I think there is always progression I consider even us building a city together as progression and I would be happy with straight up sandbox with no goals. that is good thing bout Gary's mod for Half Life 2- no goals
I completely agree with the OP. Max level used to be a fantasy for most players, now NOT being max level means you are a total newb or doing something wrong.
Leveling up is more fun then endgame, sorry. Endgame can be good, but never as good as the journeys you make exploring and conqeuring the world as you level. Give me a game that takes the average player two years to hit the level cap... and you've taken the first step to doing things right.
Now add a new expansion every six months like EQ1 and youve got the right idea.... never-ending leveling up, always new content... just play till you dont want to anymore... instead of running out of things to do or repeating the same things over and over.
Grymm
MMO addict in recovery!
EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH,
Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!
There does not have to be an endgame (and I agree, endgame is usually a bed thing), but there DOES have to be an END.
There will always come a point where you've simply done all there is to do in a game. Unless you are willing to reroll and replay, why not simply pack it in and move on? There is no other kind of game that people are unwilling to stop playing when it's over; why should MMOGs be different?
Whatever your personal answer, the REAL answer is that the developer and publisher want more of your money, so they perpetuate the myth that it shouldn't have to end. But guess what? There's only so much content. And to this point, player-generated content (be it ongoing PvP or roleplay or costume contests or whatever) can only stretch a game a tiny bit farther.
Maybe a game will come along that will allow for unlimited advancement, or at least unlimited, meaningful challenges, but that game is many years in the future. For now, a player's choices are reroll, move on, or sit around and complain.
there is no such thing as end game in a PVP game
Ever heard of a sandbox MMO? Player made content.
www.fomportal.com
www.darkfallonline.com
I don't consider "end game" to be the actual "end" of the gaming experience at all.
What I consider "endgame" is basically how the game is played after you've "maxed out" your character. I consider Guild Wars endgame to be when you've finished the campaigns and start getting into pvp. Lineage 2 endgame is when you're 75+ and get to play with all the top skills. Stuff like that. How the game is played after you reach the "end" of the learning/development phase.
If people tell me that a mmo "has no endgame", I will interpret that as there being no point in playing it after you've reached the level cap.
It's the difference in people's definition of "end-game"...
Some believe that MMO should never have "end-game", since it would mean "end of the game".
some say there is "end-game", and define it as activities after you have max your character's progression.
It's in the difference of design.
Linear progression (Level/Class based) would have what you call an "end-game", since there IS an end to the progression, so you will have other activities to do.
Sand-Box progression (Skills/Skill-trees based) would NOT have an "end-game". The reason being that you can continue your character's progression by switching template, skills, profession, and so on. You don't necessary NEED other activities to do since you are still working on your character.
Current MMO: FFXIV:ARR
Past MMO: Way too many (P2P and F2P)