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/stick ?
Grandtomatoe
Member Posts: 21
I really liked the /stick command in DAoC and the /face command. Can anyone tell me if they are being implemented in WAR?
Comments
As of right now, it's undecided. We probably won't know until the game is closer to release. /face really won't be needed though as Collision Detection eliminates 90% of the reason you would need it in the first place. With stealth being removed, Goblin Squig Herders will have to use the terrain to hide. Adding /face would eliminate this ability so I doubt we'll see it. /stick though could very well still be added in but valid arguments can be made going both ways on this one.
I see no valid argumend as to why we would take anything out of the game mechanics that worked for the best player vs player combat engine of all time.
when they made the godfather part 2 (the greatest movie of all time) they took everything that was a success in the godfather and built more story around it.
Having stick makes melee options work. If you do not have stick , then 1h+shield vs 2h never works. In the "other game" you can attack someone with a 2hander than run away or straife to stay out of range and delay the time the opponent has to attack. So pretty much you are going hit for hit using a 1handed vs a 2hander, insted of 2atacks from a 1hander vs your 2hander. Faster and slower weapons become more important than actual weapon damage if you dont have stick, theres no real debate dual weild vs 2h when theres no stick because your missing attacks because of target not in sight when dual weild without it. and since EVERY charachter in WAR will have melee attacks this is all the more reason to keep stick in the game because everyone uses it.
Stick also allows you to make tactical decisions more akin to turn based type decisions as opposed to twitch decisions you will need without it. Stick and face work.
I am a huge fan of daoc, and I am a huge opponent of the "crouching tiger hidden dragon" type game play that mmo's have DEvolved into over recent years in gaming. sit back and objectivly watch an old daoc fight and then watch the bunnyhopping macro/mod/ad on spamming/1 button circle straife mess that the other game promotes. You can pass out dizzy watching some of the warrior films, its all based on twitch and unrealism and ruins the whole FEEL of a wartorn gritty and grime covered battle when people are "river dancing"
Do you really want to see a chaos chosen spinning around and bunny hopping while trying to exploit line of sight? It that really befitting the IP of the charachter?
Ok my rant is over, Im just letting off steam because I couldnt go to E3
-Hasani-
(sorry, had to remove the annoying formatting from your post)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I highly disagreed with the slash commands in Dark Age of Camelot // Warhammer Online. Its the same with macro. These are specialized commands there "help" the player in a automatic way. These commands will mostly be favour/hated by 50% of the community. I must say that I really dislike them. The fighting/defensive action are just a advantage to some classes or certains players. These following slash commands I would like "not" to be in Warhammer Online (From the Dark Age of Camelot view).
/assist
This command active to assist the target in battle. These enable tons of bots to follow you charcter around like "boxing".
/face
This command make you character to the face the target. Its really favour melee character against ranged. As Ranged character mostly circle around the character.
/stick
The worst actully. This lame command allow you to stick to the target. Almost simliar to /follow command, but you will remain mush closer and the range at which you get too far" and break loose is smaller.
I don't want to have to be as good as other players when it comes to character movement. I want a macro in game that allows me to automatically stay next to them even if they are better at character movement than me. I don't want to have to be good at anything really. I just want to be able type /this /that and watch my character beat another with no player skill involved at all.
Sorry, but DAoC's engine was horrible. The gameplay was awesome, and imo the old-looking interface, the badly created animations, and the terrible client-sync is what stopped the game reaching its full potential.
I still don't know what the WAR Devs mean by skill, as it could mean a couple of things; Twitched based, where players use their actual skill to out maneuver(sp?) their opponents. Or, it could be who clicks the right skills.
Anyone can learn what skills to use and when, but, combining both of the above would mean using actual skill.
You say you dislike the use of macros (or at least, that's what it says to me), but using commands like /face and /stick is the same thing, if not worse. Why? Because you're not using your own skill, you're allowing the computer to do things for you, rather than using your own keyboard-strafing and button-pressing skills.
-iCeh
I find it pretty annoying and lame to see people circle strafe around eachother in melee combat. I think a way to make it less appealing, and used only defensively, would be to incur an accuracy debuff for a brief period after moving.
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What is this "whack", you say? Check out the links!
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I can see the simplicity of /stick and why you guys think it takes a lot less skill than no /stick but take the tank train tactic in DAoC for a second and look at it. It really wouldnt work without /stick and every tank group used it. So now if I have 3 tanks comming at me and Im a little squishy sorc I can kite the hell outta them, probably loose at least one maybe two maybe even get all 3 off of me for a little bit and what does that make the tanks worth in battle? I think that even if your sweet at character movement, any kiter that plays the game and has any skill will turn it into a guessing game and at every turn he makes gives you only about a 75% chance to stay within melee distance of him and be effective as a tank.
So non tank groups just watch the dumb tanks be far less effective at their job while they all sit back and nuke the hell outta them.
Any opinions?
Daoc needs to have /stick because like all games of it's age, it has a very bad movement, you simply can't stay in melee range of someone without using /stick (or constantly spaming /face) since war's control's are more like wow or other new games. You have enaugh control to stay in melee range withotu stick, so it probably won't be implemented.
/face was added so that you could /face an archer before you die (as far as I recall) it's also needed to stp the run-through caster exploit which prevents casters from casting since you are not in los. War has collossion detection so you can't run through. Also, there isn't a /face command, when you engage someoen you'll automaticaly face the, so it's kind of in-game.
this guy said it best. get you some skill and leave those commands outta the game.
If someone played Savage (action/RPG/RTS), they know the importance of facing the enemy. WAR isn't that kind of game (in savage 1 click = 1 attack those in front of you), but its no fun if you fight standing still ( a game of rock/paper/scissors? ). I haven't played DAoC (and I regret it TT ), but for me that /stick command sounds like an easy-mode... and thaaat sux.
IZI MODO?! Ha-ha-ha!
I currently still play DAOC (or reupped to be precise), if you are bored whilst waiting till WAR comes out go try it imo.
/stick
The argument that /stick is a skilless option is false (I play a blademaster). For one you have speed differences between classes in DAOC (or abilities that grant speed bursts) allowing you to outrun the stick or you can zephyr (kinda like a whirlwind) someone away from you as well. DAOC is very much about the tactical battle, i.e. target selection. /stick is merely a tool/ability with plenty of counter abilities (i know this didnt used to be the case but it is now). It is no where near easy mode or close to an iwin button at all. You need to keep local awareness (the party that you stuck to could easily drag you out of heal range and then take you down) but also need target awerness (someone else being a huge pain to your groups ability to function? Time to switch!
/assist
Bots are a non argument here. if there is a bot argument it would apply to /stick but then still a bot is always less then a player. /assist could be argued as easy mode but why give people with voice coms a huge advantage over people without? Think about that.
/face
So you get hit in the back, why shouldn't you be able to face where it came from? /face is needed if the game doesn't provide ample clues as to where you are being hit from. /face also unfaces you from your current target removing your ability to hit him/her.
/lag
The real issue is the /face jump circlestraff window dragging asshats that we simply refer to as exploiters are causing server/client sync issues with their position, prevent that and the abilities are what they are meant to be tools.
I would prefer a /stick command that works ONLY out of combat, especially if there is going to be a lot of by-foot traveling.
I prefer caster classes, and what's more annoying than a player that can auto stick to my squishy arse?
Currently Playing : WAR, UO, RL
I see that the (un)holy trinity /stick /face and /assist have struck again
This is coming from an ex-WoW and DAoC (shortly) player, WoW being my first MMO.
/assist, in my opinion, is the worst of three evils, as it allows to select a target from the chaos on the battlefield. It can lead to assist trains, as in DAoC, which doesn't bother me that much. Why doesn't it bother me, someone may ask? Well the ganging up on a single target will always happen with or without /assist and it will still hurt. It will be more often with /assist but no one is denied it's use. For all we know it may be coded so there's a hotkey for it, like WoW, so even easier to all those not well versed in the making/binding of macros department.
/stick bothers me a lot, cause it gives you the opportunity to follow your opponent around without effort. There may be counters for /stick but it's kinda hard to evade 2 or 3 enemies at a time with them following you on auto, opposed to trying to follow you without automatic controls. It may feel more arcade like without /stick, but I think that combat in WAR, will not be another bunny festival. If they add collision detection (CD) it may not even matter that much. And for 1h vs. 2h argument someone argued, I guess that strafing out of range will be present but then again CD changes it by lessening the effect, as the person cannot jump through you.
/face as someone already pointed out is most probably not going to be in, due to the fact that you auto turn when engaging your target.
I'd be quite happy if WAR is made without any three, well the top two actually, as /face is most probably out. Whatever the outcome I'll still give it a go
Of All The Things I've Lost I Miss My Mind The Most
Having a /stick command that wasn't all that effective in combat was the original intention of the /follow command. It would allow you to trail behind another character but wouldn't bring you within range of melee combat.
As for the debate, I've played games with and without all three of these commands and they never seemed to be much of a deal-breaker for combat. The only large impact would be if the choice were made after launch; i.e. gaining or losing any of these commands after launch. People learn to work with them or work around not having them, and changing that after launch would upset more people than the initial decision.
To be perfectly honest i think all three commands greatly decrease player effectiveness anyway, if u can auto /stick to a player it will make the majority of players lazy (if it is effective).
/face is easy mode, if u cant see the direction of a tank twatting you or a huge fireball, arrows ect. are coming from, spin around and u will see, yes it will loose you a few seconds but thats what the healbot in ur team is for
As for /assist, yes it can help out a player, in certain situations but with the speed of combat that WAR is promoting assist wont be a major factor in pvp fact, a good team will know what to target as soon as they see the enemy, and unless some ranged fighter is hiding in a corner out of sight assist wont be that useful at all.
I just hope that they dont let in macro strings like SWG because lets face it it was so imbalanced it was untrue lol
i for one hate macro exploiting and botting and hope that WAR has stringent anti macro usage, but we will have to wait and see
Speaking of /commands (not a /cmd what I'm going to ask) and "easier ways" is there any rules about having player names looks alike (ie a "Tank" has the name Absgs while a "Caster/Healer" has Absjs and what not) we use to do this in Shadowbane and stack on each other so it would be really hard to call out targets (GMs forced a Name changed because it was an unfair advantage). I'm sure some AoE spells are going to be killer so it would be risky or even plan stupid to stack up.
Just a thought.
OT: I don't care if they have any /cmd or not, I can use em but if they don't have them I wont care.
oO There is more evil in that /stick command than I thought. Anyway, its not a big deal to prevent abuse of weapon ranges ( ex. -N% walking speed debuff if fleeing from the character you are target by ). Now there's another questsion - will there be weapon ranges for different kinds of melee weapons?
IZI MODO?! Ha-ha-ha!
Yes, I know you all have balls of steel and are no doubt expert ub3rl33t gamers but not every one is. I'm not, it's a great help to me.
I miss it in WoW and don't really like most PvP in the game tbh, most fights just make me feel sick, with some little spotty twat spinning and jumping around and around...
I like the face/stick command also,, Man, I just hate these other games where you enter a fight and there damn toon is jumping all over the place.. or your chasing a mobtoon what a waste of time.. IF I go out to fight I want to toe to toe someone not chase them around in a circle.. I can go get my niece and nephew for that they are ages 2 and 3..
Personally I hope they implement it into the game..
Lets start a poll on Face stick command or Not.. and see
/stick is unnecessary as long as a game properly punishes excess running/jumping. In WoW, there is no real penalty - you can jump in circles while swinging a massive axe and be no worse off than standing still. If in WAR they make it so you lose "balance" or something when you jump, and thus suffer some sort of temporary combat debuff, then things are fine.
It only makes sense that there should be some sort of combat penalty when you are moving too much, which would mirror how casters cannot (usually) run/jump and cast. I do know that Mythic stated they wanted to avoid making combat too much about running in circles.
When i played DAoC wayback, i didn't realy like /stick and /face....it seemed to take alot of the options away from classes with positional attacks not to mention ranged classes and healers. I probably feel that way because i didn't play a sword and board tank...so it was probably different from that perspective.
Anyway, About /sick in WAR...if they can balance the game well with everyone using or not using that command then sure, why not....but of course this is based on the assumption that the game handles to "todays standards" and not the way some of the clunky 1990's games did.
I think once the WOW bunny hop around in circle fighters start playing the game and find out there is something called "COLLISION" in the game they won't use the WOW tactics they have grown use to in that game.
Now if the developers butter up and feel they need to give people a Kung-fu jump over my head a billion times dynamic later on then I would opt for the point and click option because it will be needed in that instance "I am 100% against any type of macro in the game".
There will be a /follow command. but whether there will be a /stick command for RvR has not been announced. However, I wager there will be a /face command, since a lot of range dps classes will be in the game
Torrential
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
I have mixed feelings on the /stick command (I don't like /face). On the one hand, yes it makes keeping close to your target easier. However, on the other hand not all players have 1)A system that does not lag out in big fights, 2) A broadband connection with low ping.
In addition, I do hate the circle strafe/jump tactics that tend to get used in WoW and similar games. There is no real skill there (you can argue all you want about how there is but there really is not). Anyone can circle strafe and jump all day. It is not how combat happens. I have no issue with maneuvering for position but it just gets out of hand in most cases.
I hope you can't even jump in the game. I would like to see speeds actually slowed down in combat giving you the ability to reposition but not jump around like a damn jack rabbit.