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Hardcore servers, every MMORPG should have them.
PVPKing
Member Posts: 19
Why doesn't world of warcraft or star wars galaxies or lord of the rings online have a hardcore server? A server for intelligent players who want a world of free will. Kill any player anytime and take all loot. Basically a world that is chaotic in which the players must bring order. What is so wrong with this? Why do us skilled players have to be discriminated against just because we choose to "Think" when we play mmorpgs. Most carebears turn their brain completely off and if that is how you want to play your game so be it. But why do we the hardcore players have to suffer? I'm not talking about grinding 32454 hours a day to make a character. I'm talking about a world where there is a constant tension, where you are always watching your back, worried that some player is going to jack you. Or that an enemy guild is waiting to ambush you.
What is so wrong with the element of surprise? World of "WAR"craft is not war when you can't even ambush enemy players with that big red name tag over their head.
I want to think when I play games and risk losing something in order to gain something more. Why can't you people handle that? What is wrong with you. I guess not everyone can handle a little competition right? Because you have to compete in real life right? I"m just curious that is all. I compete in real life too but that is the nature of things. I got bored of world of warcraft after 3 months. But I played ultima online for 4 years because every time I logged on something spontaneous and new would happen that was DYNAMIC to the players. 4 years I played that game and there wasn't a single stupid quest that forced me to collect 10 feathers for 500 experience.
Why do you people enjoy collecting 10 feathers for 500 experience? WTF is wrong with you lol. I prefer hunting down an enemy player that slaughtered my guildmates. I prefer killing a known villain who has a bunch of gold and loot on him, and then when I kill him I take all his loot. I prefer storming an enemy guildhouse, breaking in through their front line defense and if I kill them all I can loot their entire guild house of all their riches. That is fun. You new generation of mmorpg'ers have never experienced a REAL mmorpg. That is the problem.
PVPKing
Comments
What every game should have are 'softcore' servers with higher XP rates, more drops, less XP loss and specially limited weekly playing time. Many Asian games need the last part.
Maybe you haven't noticed but most MMORPGs seem to be catering to the casual players more. They're designing their video games around the idea that people have lives, and surprising enough most do. Unforetunantly this totally bunks a small majority of people, such as yourself. And personally, I fail to see how taking someone's stuff is fun or having someone take your stuff is fun. It seems retarded for me to spend my time and finally get some good loot, just for me to take on an unbeatable amount of players and they steal it. And I'm sure a majority of people would agree with me on that, and I'm guessing developers picked up on that. Oh, and yeah I did play the original UO a while back for probably a year, so I wouldn't shout I'm a carebear just yet.
So what is the point of another hardcore PvP post? This is atleast the third in the past 12 hours. All the same people that railed in the others... Making a ton of new threads does not make the issue any more important.
These threads are pointless as they do no good... Beat the dead horse a little more guys,
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Id rather see posts like this than all the WoW posts on general forums and not in the WoW forums :P
Honestly, I'd love to have a free-for-all PvP realm or game. But it needs some kind of limitations, or I think there will sadly be virtually nobody playing it but those few fanatics. And looking at what you enjoy it seems you want to overrun less skilled players, not fight those of the same skill level.
Go play Archlord....
--
Michael
Id rather see posts like this than all the WoW posts on general forums and not in the WoW forums :P
I would rather not see either.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
I agree with the OP. There is no downside to having a hardcore ruleset server and it doesn't require that much effort of the developer's part. Personally I don't understand the resistance I hear from developers on this issue. Clearly there is a market of hardcore players not being served with the current offering of easy MMOGs, there are already so many easy games for casual players to pick from.
It's important for hardcore players to keep voicing their concern otherwise nothing will change.
I agree.
And have hard core forums as well so the rest of us aren't spammed by people irritated over it.
See? I told ya'll there are more hardcore PvP'rs out there than the people on this site portray. Currently, as I write this, there are THREE of the same topics about Hardcore PvP on the top of the General discussion list.
To OP: Amen brotha. FFA PvP servers should be an option.
hardcore server...
that made me laugh.
Why do us skilled players have to be discriminated
"Skilled players"
It does not take a lot of skill to kill and steal, especially in an mmorpg. It's a stat based dice rolling fest that offers no real creativity or tactical knowledge. This works fine in a controlled environment, but in a freeform environment you are talking about chaos. There is nothing intelligent about chaos. There's definately nothing "role playing" about it. If they ever develop a way to make characters more dynamic then it might be possible.
However, if you want to get into a hardcore pvp game, there are a dozen out, they are called first person shooters.
Doktar - 70 Troll Priest - Perenolde
i agree with retrospectic. games such as lotro weren't designed to be hardcore. oh and the fact that your name is PVPKing says quite alot.
Well I'm up for the Harcore Server as you call it, yet with some limitations;
I would prefer some areas of control being in place so that I can do "my thing" under the protection of a local Guild, another warrior or lord that I can give service to in exchange for their protection, etc.
There should be alot more diplomatic factions and other elements to these online MMORPG's too.
WOW: Not my cup of tea and looks too plain, unenjoyable, and well boring imho....
LOTR: See WOW
99% of those other MMORPG's: yawn, they're all grind, bash things, and then bash more things.
Aside from that, the companies that run these online games are just being mindless, not realy thinking about the games we want. So I'm still looking for a game but I fear that the one I want will have to be made.
As for the current popularity of the choice available atm, well I'm not going to pay for an unsupported piece of crap for something I don't even consider a proper game.
I think that about covers my side of the current selection/choices available. So who else is sick of the choices available (think this is the reason these threads keep popping up)?
It takes extra development time and money to implement the special ruleset, to maintain that ruleset, and to develop separate updates for those servers. And let's not forget balance. Extra resources would need to be devoted to making sure those special servers were absolutely, perfectly balanced. For all their talk of being "hardcore," the PvP kids cry like a bunch of toddlers when things are unbalanced.
Would that investment be worth it? Would it gain enough new subscribers to make it profitable? Not likely. You guys are already playing on the PvP servers and paying your fifteen bucks a month; you just bitch more.
You make me laugh, with your tough talk about risking it all and your lame excuse for skill.
You are still young enough to get in the U.S. Armed Forces, volunteer for an overseas deployment, then you can say you are tough, then you can say you have skills, then you can say you are risking it all.
But until that time (which is doubtful will ever come) shut your pie hole.
Note: If you are a military veteran that's been on a deployment in a combat zone I retract my post, but if you aren't, it stands.
"Don't corpse-camp that idea. Its never gonna rez"
Bladezz (The Guild)
Ok lets be honset here. Just because there have been more then one post about this in one day does not mean there is a huge majority of people who want "hardcore" servers with no rules. More likely one person posted and two others thought "If I post it as well they might take it seriously." I also doubt that there are enough "hardcore" players to make it worth the extra coding and maintenance that the developers and publishers would have to do. Lets be realistic here. You want a server or game that will only be enjoyed by a minority of people or you want a server on an existing game that has a completely different ruleset then the others.
And really people, think about it. How many times would you be willing get killed and have everything you worked to get in the game taken away by someone in a guild that has a better powerleveling program then yours? I'm guessing even the most "hardcore" players will be tired of it after 2 or 3 times.
You make me laugh, with your tough talk about risking it all and your lame excuse for skill.
You are still young enough to get in the U.S. Armed Forces, volunteer for an overseas deployment, then you can say you are tough, then you can say you have skills, then you can say you are risking it all.
But until that time (which is doubtful will ever come) shut your pie hole.
Note: If you are a military veteran that's been on a deployment in a combat zone I retract my post, but if you aren't, it stands.
Amen to that.
Because none of those games would work with full loot. Free for all pvp also doesnt work for the lore of some games.
Full loot would never work in world of warcraft, it takes months on end to get gear, the game is gear based so if you lost gear and were given a basic set of gear for instance you would not be competive enough to get more gear.
You would need to change how all these games work to incorpate full loot or even partial loot. the game would have to be balenced and skill based. No one wants to lose their gear in wow because they decided they didnt want to roll a warlock at realese. Or because the game rolled 100% crit chance for a few spells meaning you die very quickly without any chance of fighting back.
Because none of those games would work with full loot. Free for all pvp also doesnt work for the lore of some games.
Full loot would never work in world of warcraft, it takes months on end to get gear, the game is gear based so if you lost gear and were given a basic set of gear for instance you would not be competive enough to get more gear.
You would need to change how all these games work to incorpate full loot or even partial loot. the game would have to be balenced and skill based. No one wants to lose their gear in wow because they decided they didnt want to roll a warlock at realese. Or because the game rolled 100% crit chance for a few spells meaning you die very quickly without any chance of fighting back.
/agreeOnly game systems where loot ISN'T a big deal work with full PVP free loot systems. Most MMORPG's these days are far too gear dependant. Most games would require a complete restructure of multiple systems in order to make full, open PVP w/ looting competitive, fun, and actually playable.
PVP servers, even in WoW, are far more 'hardcore" simply because once you leave the starter areas, there is always potential for faction vs. faction PVP. It only makes it suck, a lot, that the PVP system is built around gaining honor, which is far more efficient to do in the Battlegrounds. Also, because of the vast differences in gear/power between high and low level players, the open PVP is prone to ganking. Not to mention the fact the Alliance usually outnumbers the Horde 3 to 1 on any given server.
I used to play Siege Perilous on old school UO back in the day, I loved it. It was about as hardcore as UO got. Slower skill gains, full looting, full, open PVP.. however it worked because gear didn't matter at all really back then. It'd never work with 99% of "modern" MMORPG's core systems of loot, character advancement, etc.
There is also another problem with full or semi-full corpse looting. It becomes broken when you apply it to war scaled battles.
When you have 20 vs 20 ppl attacking eachother you want to enjoy the fight. Instead it will turn to marudering and in-fighting of who will be closer and faster to loot the bodies. Even WoW had problems with that in the Alterac Valley Battleground and had to decrease the drops from player corpses. ( The support classes had no chance of even smelling loot, Warriors and stealthed Grave Robbers were kings )
Also knowing that you can loose hard earned gear you become less inclined to jump into big battles because chaos and luck rulles who dies and lives there more than skill. EVE has a Hard Core dying rulles and you don't hear every day of Battle Royalles even thoug it is the appocalipse scalle aramadas that are the bread and butter and attract players to teh game. In the other corner WoW PvP Servers, which noone cites for tramendous achivements in PvP, one can find dayly several raidning(ganking) groups at high level (and seldom low level) areas. Clan wars can burst instantly when two players have different claims to a vain ore and start spamming guild and area chat for help. And lastly for thouse who want to fight can to so hours to an end in the battlegrounds that make the WAR part of the World of Warcraft.
So to end, although I resent hard core rulles, I would support developers decision to make such servers. After all, on the other servers, I want to battle againced players who there to fight. Players who aren't afraid to through in their best gear and try new tactics, because of fear they will loose months of play. Players who have to grind the unstoppble gear, and still pick fights they are sure they'll win.
War after all is when you rush into a group of foes. And grinn from your corpse, because you've taken 2 of them down and almost got the 3rd before the fatal blow.
PS: I'm sorry to use speccific games and examples as this is a general discusion topic. But I felt it would be easier to explain my point in such a manner and you can find simmilar if not better examples in other games
I think it's fine to have different rules for different servers... PvP, PvE, Hardcore, etc... if the population can sustain it. Mostly empty servers is sort of bad for everyone. If they can pull it off, though, I'm all for choice.
Because :
a) whiny PvPers would complain about how the classes are imbalanced for PvP play. Attempts to fix this would destroy PvE balance.
b) It would take time and work by the developers. In other words, it would take money. Publishers don't see the effort as paying back that money, any more than they see developing a "hardcore" game from the ground up would pay back the money that would cost.
That answer your question, or do you have more whining to do?
Chris Mattern
Yes there is.
Gah, this kind of statement makes me sick. "I'm not going to do any of the work, I've never done any of this kind of work, but I'm sure it's not tough at all."
Perhaps if you knew anything about development, you'd understand better.
Unfortunately, it's not a very large one.
Chris Mattern