PvP letdown?

Corto

Looking forward to a new way of PvP.

However, good PvP for me includes the usage of "terrain" features in tactics.  Example: high ground gives the opportunity to look farther, climbing slopes slows down movement of troops,  hiding in forests or in the dark gives an opportunity for ambushing and flanking movements by friendly regiments, terrain can be used by scouts to spy on the enemy positions and his army-constitution, etc etc...

Now I read this in the faq:

Q: Will WAR have the players' names over their heads?



A: Yes, although you will be able to control the display on your own client.

 

So I hope the tags are only displayed for friendy PC's.  Otherwise you might as well lock the opposing armies in a square room and let them fight it out as the opportunity to remain hidden or use terrain is unexistant.

I was also surprised to read that WAR will include levelling (max level=40, 4 tiers of 10 levels).  This is so un-warhammer-like.  In the RPG only some professions could increase hitpoints and then only max 2 (assassin 3 if I remember correctly).  I fear that this will reduce the PvP to a stats-game instead of a skill/tactics-based game.

Does anyone know where I can find more info about terrain modelling and levelling-system?

 

 

KRILE0N

It's WoW with more emphasis on PVP. Seriously.. WoW came from a strategy game too. The only thing the same really is the lore.. even then that's like non-existant.

As far as Warhammer Online, the graphics blow. I quit cartoon land years ago. New day of age. Get rid of those god awful graphics. Nuff said. Lame game.

Ravkeen

Originally posted by _Kyle_


It's WoW with more emphasis on PVP. Seriously.. WoW came from a strategy game too. The only thing the same really is the lore.. even then that's like non-existant.
As far as Warhammer Online, the graphics blow. I quit cartoon land years ago. New day of age. Get rid of those god awful graphics. Nuff said. Lame game.

Think before you speak please Mythic took off from there on game DAOC just as WOW took off from DAOC too.

Kyleran

Ignore comments about it being WOW with more PVP..... for a better comparison think of it as an improved DAOC based on the Warhammer IP

As such, I expect the game to have levels (40 seems low) and that player names would appear above their avatars. Also, some sort of "con" system which will give you approximate idea of what level they are before you attack them. (or they attack you)

 

Bladin

Originally posted by Corto


Looking forward to a new way of PvP.
However, good PvP for me includes the usage of "terrain" features in tactics.  Example: high ground gives the opportunity to look farther, climbing slopes slows down movement of troops,  hiding in forests or in the dark gives an opportunity for ambushing and flanking movements by friendly regiments, terrain can be used by scouts to spy on the enemy positions and his army-constitution, etc etc...
Now I read this in the faq:
Q: Will WAR have the players' names over their heads?



A: Yes, although you will be able to control the display on your own client.
 
So I hope the tags are only displayed for friendy PC's.  Otherwise you might as well lock the opposing armies in a square room and let them fight it out as the opportunity to remain hidden or use terrain is unexistant.
I was also surprised to read that WAR will include levelling (max level=40, 4 tiers of 10 levels).  This is so un-warhammer-like.  In the RPG only some professions could increase hitpoints and then only max 2 (assassin 3 if I remember correctly).  I fear that this will reduce the PvP to a stats-game instead of a skill/tactics-based game.
Does anyone know where I can find more info about terrain modelling and levelling-system?
 
 

My only comment is about your issue with names.

WAR is about WAR, this isn't a game where your going to be hiding behind trees, stealth killing people running around... You'll be too busy being in a battle to the death, and you hiding behind some tree/edge is just going to make your team suck.

MyMainBanned

I think name tags are good idea because they help you to find and target the enemy quick.
You don't have to stare at pixels looking for a fat dwarf.

And _Kyle_, no more pills in the bottle?

ASmith84

to be honust war pvp looks like wow pvp only it will be GOOD.  if you dont like it you could try age of conan.

ormstunga

can we just CHILL for a minute and leave kindergarden... 2nd poster is just venting an opinion commenting on WAR graphics... there's no need for bashing or namecalling since WAR is not your mother or sister or whatever, its NOT personal. Just relax... I bet a thousand bucks your future WAR gaming experince wont be affected at all by him disliking WAR graphics. 

jor8888

 

Originally posted by _Kyle_


It's WoW with more emphasis on PVP. Seriously.. WoW came from a strategy game too. The only thing the same really is the lore.. even then that's like non-existant.
As far as Warhammer Online, the graphics blow. I quit cartoon land years ago. New day of age. Get rid of those god awful graphics. Nuff said. Lame game.

wtf u care?  u dont even pvp or u dont even know how lol.  U expect to play with max graphic setting with 500 ppl on ur screen? 

 

 

impulsebooks

The only thing I worry about regarding WAR's pvp is the instancing. I know there will be open world pvp as well, and there is the sacking of the city at the end, but will there be eough open world vs instanced.

One of the Devs (not Paul I think) mentioned that when approaching a scenario area, you are pulled out of the game into a lobby/waiting area to be matched up with the enemy before going to fight... not sure I like the idea of being dragged out of the game that way. I always did prefer open world pvp over instanced.

So, I am certain pvp will be better that other game's pvp (read WOW) but how good is another matter.

jor8888

Originally posted by Corto


Looking forward to a new way of PvP.
However, good PvP for me includes the usage of "terrain" features in tactics.  Example: high ground gives the opportunity to look farther, climbing slopes slows down movement of troops,  hiding in forests or in the dark gives an opportunity for ambushing and flanking movements by friendly regiments, terrain can be used by scouts to spy on the enemy positions and his army-constitution, etc etc...
Now I read this in the faq:
Q: Will WAR have the players' names over their heads?



A: Yes, although you will be able to control the display on your own client.
 
So I hope the tags are only displayed for friendy PC's.  Otherwise you might as well lock the opposing armies in a square room and let them fight it out as the opportunity to remain hidden or use terrain is unexistant.
I was also surprised to read that WAR will include levelling (max level=40, 4 tiers of 10 levels).  This is so un-warhammer-like.  In the RPG only some professions could increase hitpoints and then only max 2 (assassin 3 if I remember correctly).  I fear that this will reduce the PvP to a stats-game instead of a skill/tactics-based game.
Does anyone know where I can find more info about terrain modelling and levelling-system?
 
 

its same as daoc u wont see enemy's names until they are right next to u.  But its going to show u their l names and ranks unlike daoc which just show races and ranks.

 

jor8888

Originally posted by impulsebooks


The only thing I worry about regarding WAR's pvp is the instancing. I know there will be open world pvp as well, and there is the sacking of the city at the end, but will there be eough open world vs instanced.
One of the Devs (not Paul I think) mentioned that when approaching a scenario area, you are pulled out of the game into a lobby/waiting area to be matched up with the enemy before going to fight... not sure I like the idea of being dragged out of the game that way. I always did prefer open world pvp over instanced.
So, I am certain pvp will be better that other game's pvp (read WOW) but how good is another matter.

what I want to know is how long does it take to get to the sack city part.  If both side have dead lock all the time we will never see the sack city raid.

 

daelnor

I honestly haven't followed this game very closely, but I would put money down that if mythic is developing it, it will be a solid pvp game. However, with EA in the mix...I dunno. If EA sits, back, shuts the hell up and just hands the money over it should be a good game. If they interfere, then the potential of the game spirals downwards rapidly.

D.

evil13

Important thing to remember, is that Mythic is making an rvr focused mmo set in warhammer universe, not making an mmog out of warhammer rpg/tabletop or some other warhammer version released over the years. As such it will have things that mmos have (names over head, lvls etc) even though table top or rpg warhammer don't have that.

 So, if you are looking to play warhammer rpg on your computer, war will most likely disppoint you. If you want to play a mmorpg set in warhammer universe, you will likely enjoy war.

 

PS: It's impossible to say how long it will take to sack a city. How long does it take to take a relic in daoc? anywhere from 2 hours to several months.

impulsebooks

Originally posted by evil13


 
PS: It's impossible to say how long it will take to sack a city. How long does it take to take a relic in daoc? anywhere from 2 hours to several months.

Probably 2 minutes if al the people who voted Orks actually DO play one 

M1sf1t

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Originally posted by _Kyle_
It's WoW with more emphasis on PVP. Seriously.. WoW came from a strategy game too. The only thing the same really is the lore.. even then that's like non-existant.
As far as Warhammer Online, the graphics blow. I quit cartoon land years ago. New day of age. Get rid of those god awful graphics. Nuff said. Lame game.

---

Then you have no clue about Warhammer. The graphics reflect the iconic look of the table top miniatures. In fact I'd say the Empire and Chaos graphics are more realistic looking then the style used for the table top miniatures.

M1sf1t

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Originally posted by ormstunga
can we just CHILL for a minute and leave kindergarden... 2nd poster is just venting an opinion commenting on WAR graphics... there's no need for bashing or namecalling since WAR is not your mother or sister or whatever, its NOT personal. Just relax... I bet a thousand bucks your future WAR gaming experince wont be affected at all by him disliking WAR graphics.

---

I understand it's just that he is not a true Warhammer fan and is spouting off nonsense.

If he does like the look and style of the MMO he sure as hell won't like the look and style of the tabletop because Mythic has done a wonderful job translating the look and style that all true Warhammer fans know and love.

Kalmarth

Originally posted by Corto


Looking forward to a new way of PvP.
However, good PvP for me includes the usage of "terrain" features in tactics.  Example: high ground gives the opportunity to look farther, climbing slopes slows down movement of troops,  hiding in forests or in the dark gives an opportunity for ambushing and flanking movements by friendly regiments, terrain can be used by scouts to spy on the enemy positions and his army-constitution, etc etc...
Now I read this in the faq:
Q: Will WAR have the players' names over their heads?



A: Yes, although you will be able to control the display on your own client.
 
So I hope the tags are only displayed for friendy PC's.  Otherwise you might as well lock the opposing armies in a square room and let them fight it out as the opportunity to remain hidden or use terrain is unexistant.
I was also surprised to read that WAR will include levelling (max level=40, 4 tiers of 10 levels).  This is so un-warhammer-like.  In the RPG only some professions could increase hitpoints and then only max 2 (assassin 3 if I remember correctly).  I fear that this will reduce the PvP to a stats-game instead of a skill/tactics-based game.
Does anyone know where I can find more info about terrain modelling and levelling-system?
 
 

I'm sorry to say this but you just discribed a FPS, Using Tactis is a must, Terrain 100% of you game play is knowing the lay out and where to get the best shots from, seeing peoples names, only when you get the kill does this come up, Flanking, goes back to Tactics and Squad based play, your not looking for an MMO your looking for an FPS, I recommend BF2, run with a good Clan and you will do nothing but smile.

M1sf1t

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Originally posted by Corto
Looking forward to a new way of PvP.
However, good PvP for me includes the usage of "terrain" features in tactics. Example: high ground gives the opportunity to look farther, climbing slopes slows down movement of troops, hiding in forests or in the dark gives an opportunity for ambushing and flanking movements by friendly regiments, terrain can be used by scouts to spy on the enemy positions and his army-constitution, etc etc...
Now I read this in the faq:
Q: Will WAR have the players' names over their heads? A: Yes, although you will be able to control the display on your own client.

So I hope the tags are only displayed for friendy PC's. Otherwise you might as well lock the opposing armies in a square room and let them fight it out as the opportunity to remain hidden or use terrain is unexistant.
I was also surprised to read that WAR will include levelling (max level=40, 4 tiers of 10 levels). This is so un-warhammer-like. In the RPG only some professions could increase hitpoints and then only max 2 (assassin 3 if I remember correctly). I fear that this will reduce the PvP to a stats-game instead of a skill/tactics-based game.
Does anyone know where I can find more info about terrain modelling and levelling-system?

---

They'll probably give tag names a certain range before they display as they did in DAOC.

Or better yet have them only pop up once offensive action is taken by hostile player. Friendly NPC's and PC's should always be visible to you IMHO.

Fsuparker

Kalmarth... wow man that is kind of a stupid thing to say if you ask me.

Yes you do need to use tactics in FPS, and yes BF2 is a good game and all, but you should have to use tactics in an MMO PVP, it is stupid to go with the flow of all of these other games, where it comes down to what do u have equiped over how good you are as a player, and how well u can sneak up on someone

Terrain should be a major factor, of course along with your ability to use it to your advantage

tdub

 

Originally posted by Thedrizzle

Originally posted by _Kyle_


It's WoW with more emphasis on PVP. Seriously.. WoW came from a strategy game too. The only thing the same really is the lore.. even then that's like non-existant.
As far as Warhammer Online, the graphics blow. I quit cartoon land years ago. New day of age. Get rid of those god awful graphics. Nuff said. Lame game.

If you knew anything about games jackass, you'd realize they went that route with the graphics so that when 500 people are fighting another 500 people it wouldn't be a lag fest and your video card wouldn't be on fire.  Learn about computers and gaming before you make your half ass comments.

If you would noticed/learn WaR is one of VERY FEW games that  don't care about graphics.... meaning its cartoons not because they are worried about the mass amount of people plaything but its cheaper for them.  More particles and more enties = more B/W which equals more money to their ISP/Server host.  And Second of all I stand with Kyle here, War should have gotten with the time and made better graphics.  Its a remake of WoW and wont last more then a year.... or dear I said something about about War on WarFans.com I mean Mmorpg.com.    Duel 7600 gt 256mb Geforced can handle well over 300 people to 400 people all casting with no lag on Vanguard and that's Vanguard.... You said You need to Learn about computers and games.... err I think you need to learn more.

 

 

WaR took the cheap way and went low graphics applying to about 20% of the gaming community.  The rest 80% have already upgrade and are waiting for URT3 based engine games... I think you need to learn a little more about computers and games before calling someone a jackass..  And for your noobish ways I explain.... URT3 = Unreal tournament 3

M1sf1t

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Originally posted by tdub

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Originally posted by Thedrizzle

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Originally posted by _Kyle_

It's WoW with more emphasis on PVP. Seriously.. WoW came from a strategy game too. The only thing the same really is the lore.. even then that's like non-existant.
As far as Warhammer Online, the graphics blow. I quit cartoon land years ago. New day of age. Get rid of those god awful graphics. Nuff said. Lame game.

---

If you knew anything about games jackass, you'd realize they went that route with the graphics so that when 500 people are fighting another 500 people it wouldn't be a lag fest and your video card wouldn't be on fire. Learn about computers and gaming before you make your half ass comments.

---

If you would noticed/learn WaR is one of VERY FEW games that don't care about graphics.... meaning its cartoons not because they are worried about the mass amount of people plaything but its cheaper for them. More particles and more enties = more B/W which equals more money to their ISP/Server host. And Second of all I stand with Kyle here, War should have gotten with the time and made better graphics. Its a remake of WoW and wont last more then a year.... or dear I said something about about War on WarFans.com I mean Mmorpg.com. Duel 7600 gt 256mb Geforced can handle well over 300 people to 400 people all casting with no lag on Vanguard and that's Vanguard.... You said You need to Learn about computers and games.... err I think you need to learn more.


WaR took the cheap way and went low graphics applying to about 20% of the gaming community. The rest 80% have already upgrade and are waiting for URT3 based engine games... I think you need to learn a little more about computers and games before calling someone a jackass.. And for your noobish ways I explain.... URT3 = Unreal tournament 3

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Another person who has absolutely no idea what the hell he is talking about.

Warhammer looks the way it does because it's based off the IP of Games Workshop. It's not meant to look like your average Korean anime or the plastic lifeless manikins you find in Vangaurd.

Mythic is making a game that Warhammer fans can identify with from what they've seen in the table top minatures.

If you don't understand I'd say stop posting now and just never speak of this game again.

P.S. Your Vangaurd statement is complete BS ! In fact you'd hard press to find 400-500 people logged onto Vangaurd right now. So yeah good luck with that ridiculous claim.

JulianDracos

As for graphics, they did not have a choice and it has nothing to do with "lag."  The fact is, the textures and polycounts are going to be higher than in DAOC so that means more rendering and potentially more lag.  The reason why they went with the "cartoon" look is because that is how Warhammer looks.  Warcraft, a long time ago, ripped off Warhammer including the art style.  GW wants it to look like Warhammer so that means they have to keep the same style - cartoons.

As for using terrain it is possible even with the names on your head.  It should be displayed just above your head, so if you are in a tall amount of grass it won't be visable.  But I would look at it this way, unless you are short, it is not going to matter.  Big targets cannot be hidden by terrian even if there are no names.

It sounds like the OP wants a FPS and not an mmorpg.   In FPS it is about players controlling everything about their characters, you use terrain, you do not auto target/select a target, there is no "leveling up" or getting stat increases.  In mmorpgs, you level, you increase stats, you get items, you get new abilties, combat is based on stats and not if you can aim, etc. 

There was never intention to give a new way to "PvP" (BTW, if you intend on playing WAR you should get used to the term RvR because that it what it is and how they describe it.  PvP, for Mythic, is a FFA PvP where you can kill anyone at anytime.  RvR is realm versus realm and is just killing the enemy faction in specified areas).  They want a success and the more a game is like an FPS the less it appeals to traditional mmorpg players and therefore you will have less players. 

Raven99

Originally posted by Corto


Looking forward to a new way of PvP.
However, good PvP for me includes the usage of "terrain" features in tactics.  Example: high ground gives the opportunity to look farther, climbing slopes slows down movement of troops,  hiding in forests or in the dark gives an opportunity for ambushing and flanking movements by friendly regiments, terrain can be used by scouts to spy on the enemy positions and his army-constitution, etc etc...
Now I read this in the faq:
Q: Will WAR have the players' names over their heads?



A: Yes, although you will be able to control the display on your own client.
 
So I hope the tags are only displayed for friendy PC's.  Otherwise you might as well lock the opposing armies in a square room and let them fight it out as the opportunity to remain hidden or use terrain is unexistant.
I was also surprised to read that WAR will include levelling (max level=40, 4 tiers of 10 levels).  This is so un-warhammer-like.  In the RPG only some professions could increase hitpoints and then only max 2 (assassin 3 if I remember correctly).  I fear that this will reduce the PvP to a stats-game instead of a skill/tactics-based game.
Does anyone know where I can find more info about terrain modelling and levelling-system?
 
 

This game will be nothing like the table version. its going to be one big grief fest with no tactic, or anything that even comes close to emulating the greatness of the Warhammer game.

 

Raven

atziluth

Originally posted by tdub


 
If you would noticed/learn WaR is one of VERY FEW games that  don't care about graphics.... meaning its cartoons not because they are worried about the mass amount of people plaything but its cheaper for them.  More particles and more enties = more B/W which equals more money to their ISP/Server host.  And Second of all I stand with Kyle here, War should have gotten with the time and made better graphics.  Its a remake of WoW and wont last more then a year.... or dear I said something about about War on WarFans.com I mean Mmorpg.com.    Duel 7600 gt 256mb Geforced can handle well over 300 people to 400 people all casting with no lag on Vanguard and that's Vanguard.... You said You need to Learn about computers and games.... err I think you need to learn more.
  
WaR took the cheap way and went low graphics applying to about 20% of the gaming community.  The rest 80% have already upgrade and are waiting for URT3 based engine games... I think you need to learn a little more about computers and games before calling someone a jackass..  And for your noobish ways I explain.... URT3 = Unreal tournament 3

Seriously? I mean are you really trying to reinforce your point with this post?

If you knew anything about MMOs you would know that most if not all the graphics (models, textures, particle FX) are on your PC waiting to be used... why? because they do not affect the game... The bandwidth is used to transfer the calculations, stats, area maps, mob/player locations. Graphics have ZERO affect on lag and everything to do with FRAME RATE.

The graphics as already mentioned are straight from GW and the table top game. The have spent EXTRA time on visuals to make sure players feel like they are in the Warhammer world. Obviously you know nothing about Warhammer and should just slither away now before you look even more like a tool.

As to your point about hardware. While you and I may have decent Boxes with top end graphic cards only about 10 - 15% of the population can say the same... So in your opinion you would alienate potentially 85 - 90% of your player base in NA... not to mention even more in Europe and Asia. Well no we know you are ignorant of how business works too.

So please respond with more inane drivel... I can smack you around all day until your brain cell starts firing again.

atziluth

Originally posted by Raven99  

This game will be nothing like the table version. its going to be one big grief fest with no tactic, or anything that even comes close to emulating the greatness of the Warhammer game.
Raven

I agree it will not be like table top. How can it be really unless you are making an MMORTS. They have done a very good job of putting a warhammer skin on an MMO and using traditional types of characters from the table top game... As to the grief fest there will be some griefing I am sure... to say it will be any more rampant then other games is incorrect. I have no issue with griefing in WAR... it brings out the true nature of table top... having 20 ironbreakers smash into 30 or 40 goblins watching them break and taking half of the goblin/orc army with them is classic warhammer. If you played the old school rules and not the watered down kiddie rules now when you could make your own magic weapons based on points... I had a choas wizard general that had 10 str and 10 attacks doing 1d3 wounds per attack... Watching him smack into a squad and 1 shotting a champion then taking out 9 other models breaking the unit single handedly was classic Warhammer... As far as tactics... 75% of the kiddies today playing Warhammer have no clue about tactics... It is all about the special characters now and the 99% fodder you put around them for color.