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To Atheists: A Important Question to Ponder.
xpowderx
Member UncommonPosts: 2,078
Watch: www.youtube.com/watch
Comments
"The laws of logic" are not laws, but a convention used to derive statements in a language with restrictions. That alone derails the entire "the laws of logic are absolute in the universe" argument, since a proof consists of consistent statements in the language of logic which by itself is a set of axioms and conventional rules to derive statements from the axioms.
It's a very hollow argument to say that something necessarily exists, because it is like something else; the video does not explore the possibility of most human beings having to reason logically due to PHYSICAL properties of their brains.
It's painfully obvious that a creature that reasons logically and has to make assumptions without deriving them from axioms in a language will assume that his assumptions are logical too: So a consistent god is not evidence for the existence of a god, but evidence for a desire of consistency among all humans that share that particular belief.
Humans are also not so vastly different: Our DNA is nearly identical, which could explain why we all reason similarly and why it is so easy to translate things semantically from one language to another. In fact, other animals (i.e. dogs, cats, birds, pigs, primates, etc.) that have similar brains to ours are also capable of using very primitive inference rules in logic as we do to learn new things.
Basically the video was another argument from a Christian that refused to look at empirical evidence while appealing to the shortcomings of empiricism as it is used in science to get away with it.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
I agree completely with everything the poster above me stated. Even if this lien of reasoning does prove that a god exists. You still can;t prove that this is the Christian god, not can you prove that this god isn't in fact a giant chicken.
Powder, I want you to think about the sheer size of the universe for a moment. I want you to take into consideration the fact that the closest star to our planet, the sun, is about 96,000,000 miles away. Going at about one mile a second, it would take you over a thousand years to get there. The closest solar system to our own is 20 light years away. Our fastest unmanned vehicles would take over 400,000 years to get there and no human could survive a trip at speeds that fast. Even so, those distances are less than trivial in comparison to the overall size of our universe.
Imagine yourself: A microscopic speck, upon a microscopic speck, upon a microscopic speck, with an itty bitty little sign that says "You are here." And believe me, that's not even close to the scale how insignificant all of humanity is compared to the rest of the universe!
Now imagine The creature that made all of that. With just one thought, it set off the processes that, after trillions of years, resulted in the universe as we know it. Do you really think that such a creature really had us in mind when it did all that? Do you honestly believe that an intelligence that incredible, a consciousness that vast and far reaching, would concern itself with who I'm screwing, what vulgar words I said this week, how often I lied, whether or not I killed anyone, and the myriad of other "moral" standards that we claim came from God? It would be like me trying to dictate the behavior of a few microbes on a ball of shit floating in the middle of the ocean.
I'm not in anyway saying that this "supreme being" couldn't do any of these things. I'm saying that it's highly improbable that it would. Despite what you may believe powder, Humanity will one day go extinct, all the stars will burn out, and the universe will implode. With all of that going on, I can't even imagine a God that would pay attention to this insignificant population of hairless talking monkeys. We are the byproduct of a much larger thing that we will ever know. That is if we assume that there really is a creator.
To be honest even if God existed, wouldn't change my life a bit.
I am just not interested in superior beings.
I am my own God, I decide my own destiny for the good and for the bad.
Ste at least you are honest!
Gameloading this video is in part just for you. Tell me about that logic!
I'm not sure If I got it or not.
Because we think is the arguement now?
Wish Darkfall would release.
WOW, Atheists surely can post in threads where they get to bash a religion. But then i post some material that totally debunks the atheist mindset and they try to intentionally lose the post. Thats funny.
Urdig, you should perhaps watch it again.
The best way to prove if god exists are the attempts to disprove it.
-Me-
Which god? The god of desert farming Jews, or Vishnu the Supreme Being of Hinduism?
----------
Life sucks, buy a helmet.
Any god, anywhere, whether you believe it's an all knowing being, or a multitude.
It's rather explanitory.
Let me break it down for you..
Those who come up with 1000000's of various "can't exist because" theories, test the followers of said god.
For each test the followers pass, they gain more fortitude in what their faith is, and if a person can be swayed to convert without force then they were never truely faithful to that "god" or "religion" in the first place.
The true believers are the ones who find god exists, rather than convert or drop their faith.
True faith is akin to god.
*use god to whatever the hell faiths god(s) you want.
No one can disprove the existence of the flying spaghetti monster, there he exists.
Nor can one prove the spinache monster under the wastes does not exist.
10 points to whomever knows wtf I am talking about.
Lol how to wrap up an entire discussion in a single sentence.
Nice one
I get what they are trying to say, and in a nut shell the argument is, because we think (because we have logic) then there must be a god. In a nut shell.
It's no dif. then when people used the world as proof, or own existance as proof.
I don't think I'm understood sometimes.
I don't believe in god, I don't think there is one or that one made anything. I don't deny the possibility though. Only because the creation of a universe isn't fully understood yet. When science is able to replicate the creation of a universe we will know if there is room for god or not. Even then it is very unlikely that there will ever not be room for god. The fundimental requirement for gods existence is faith. You only need to believe in god for there to be a god.
You can not prove, nor disprove something that relies soley on faith.
Wish Darkfall would release.
On the one hand, you must be given props from paraphrasing a brilliant device from Douglas Adam's The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. However, the fact that your point is not original by any means does diminish it's usage.
But any way, you are all wrong. I don't think any of you, theist or atheist, can properly appreciate the futility of what you are trying to argue. Not only is it utterly impossible for human logic, reason, deduction, or simple perspective to capture even a fragment of the necessary power that a divinity would wield or the shear mind-boggling, soul-crushing size of universal existence; but the smugness and intellectual vanity demonstrated here is suffocating to any possible constructive understanding. Whatever you believe, you are fucking insignificant. Get over yourself and live your damned life as best you can. It doesn't matter what you believe, you are wrong. 100 years from now people will look back and marvel at the ignorance of our time, just as we do today to those who came before us. A modicum of humility would not be amiss here.
How do you kill that which has no life?
But any way, you are all wrong. I don't think any of you, theist or atheist, can properly appreciate the futility of what you are trying to argue. Not only is it utterly impossible for human logic, reason, deduction, or simple perspective to capture even a fragment of the necessary power that a divinity would wield or the shear mind-boggling, soul-crushing size of universal existence; but the smugness and intellectual vanity demonstrated here is suffocating to any possible constructive understanding. Whatever you believe, you are fucking insignificant. Get over yourself and live your damned life as best you can. It doesn't matter what you believe, you are wrong. 100 years from now people will look back and marvel at the ignorance of our time, just as we do today to those who came before us. A modicum of humility would not be amiss here.
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Faith is not based on logic.
The belief in, or disbelief of, a god is all about faith. No logic is involved.
Wish Darkfall would release.
On the one hand, you must be given props from paraphrasing a brilliant device from Douglas Adam's The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. However, the fact that your point is not original by any means does diminish it's usage.
But any way, you are all wrong. I don't think any of you, theist or atheist, can properly appreciate the futility of what you are trying to argue. Not only is it utterly impossible for human logic, reason, deduction, or simple perspective to capture even a fragment of the necessary power that a divinity would wield or the shear mind-boggling, soul-crushing size of universal existence; but the smugness and intellectual vanity demonstrated here is suffocating to any possible constructive understanding. Whatever you believe, you are fucking insignificant. Get over yourself and live your damned life as best you can. It doesn't matter what you believe, you are wrong. 100 years from now people will look back and marvel at the ignorance of our time, just as we do today to those who came before us. A modicum of humility would not be amiss here.
Maybe you should take your own advice with a hypothesis that grand.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
On the one hand, you must be given props from paraphrasing a brilliant device from Douglas Adam's The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. However, the fact that your point is not original by any means does diminish it's usage.
But any way, you are all wrong. I don't think any of you, theist or atheist, can properly appreciate the futility of what you are trying to argue. Not only is it utterly impossible for human logic, reason, deduction, or simple perspective to capture even a fragment of the necessary power that a divinity would wield or the shear mind-boggling, soul-crushing size of universal existence; but the smugness and intellectual vanity demonstrated here is suffocating to any possible constructive understanding. Whatever you believe, you are fucking insignificant. Get over yourself and live your damned life as best you can. It doesn't matter what you believe, you are wrong. 100 years from now people will look back and marvel at the ignorance of our time, just as we do today to those who came before us. A modicum of humility would not be amiss here.
Maybe you should take your own advice with a hypothesis that grand.
The majority of the gods in human history have been just that - human. A mythologized depiction of our subconscious and our understanding of the Earth. As our understanding of the Earth changed, so changed the gods. We kill them off and create new ones to suit our present needs. The problem is that a Gaian or patriarchal figure is, in fact, tremendously weak. A god or goddess of Earth is just as insignificant as the Earth itself. If there is a "God" in any sense of our understanding of the word, it is infinitely more vast and potent then anything that humanity could imagine to depict. A universal, cosmic deity would be utterly alien to human thought. No, I am perfectly comfortably accepting that anything I could conceive of is either patently false or impossible to prove in any meaningful way.
My morality is humanistic, my learning is skeptically scientific, and my theology is pantheistic. I'm comfortable with that.
How do you kill that which has no life?
Lol how to wrap up an entire discussion in a single sentence.
Nice one
Hardly a wrap up mate, actually it just added to the discussion.
The flaw of the speghetti monster is the fact no one is even making attempts to disprove if such a thing exists, there aren't "armies" of folks seeking to disprove or prove is said Flying Spehgetti Monster exists, further more there is evidence to prove more so it does exist.
See the "extra-ultra-new testiment X", it goes into much detail on how the Flying Spehgetti monster was resurrected after Geno the janitor got hungry one late night.
Nor is anyone really able to prove that the Flying Spehgetti's father did not create the meatball of life in 7 days.
Regardless anyone trying to disprove him is an idiot and will be not be listened to. I have my hands over my ears as well as my eyes now.
Back to porn I go.
Lol how to wrap up an entire discussion in a single sentence.
Nice one
Hardly a wrap up mate, actually it just added to the discussion.
The flaw of the speghetti monster is the fact no one is even making attempts to disprove if such a thing exists, there aren't "armies" of folks seeking to disprove or prove is said Flying Spehgetti Monster exists, further more there is evidence to prove more so it does exist.
See the "extra-ultra-new testiment X", it goes into much detail on how the Flying Spehgetti monster was resurrected after Geno the janitor got hungry one late night.
Nor is anyone really able to prove that the Flying Spehgetti's father did not create the meatball of life in 7 days.
Regardless anyone trying to disprove him is an idiot and will be not be listened to. I have my hands over my ears as well as my eyes now.
Back to porn I go.
That's because he was created by atheists to point out how easy it is to make up a deity, and to point out the percieved silliness of religion.
You want a better example? Ok then, howabout the scientologists. we can't prove that Xargon and his intergalactic empire doesn't exist. Therefore it exists. still ok with your argument?
So, god is an abstract concept that does not apply to the laws of nature nor logic? And because we are capable of understanding abstract logic, there must be a god. Am I getting this straight?
So, we are using logic to prove that logic doesn't work? I guess my logic doesn't work either:
God is unprovable and cannot be disproved.
Non-existence is unprovable.
Non-existence cannot be disproved.
God is non-existent.
Question, imagine our technology one day evolves up to a point whre we can alter the basic laws of the universe and our presence transcends time and space... Does this mean that race (or even single entity) might exist today? This would be a god in almost every meaning of the word. Tho I doubt it's a god in any blibical sense.
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Lol how to wrap up an entire discussion in a single sentence.
Nice one
Hardly a wrap up mate, actually it just added to the discussion.
The flaw of the speghetti monster is the fact no one is even making attempts to disprove if such a thing exists, there aren't "armies" of folks seeking to disprove or prove is said Flying Spehgetti Monster exists, further more there is evidence to prove more so it does exist.
See the "extra-ultra-new testiment X", it goes into much detail on how the Flying Spehgetti monster was resurrected after Geno the janitor got hungry one late night.
Nor is anyone really able to prove that the Flying Spehgetti's father did not create the meatball of life in 7 days.
Regardless anyone trying to disprove him is an idiot and will be not be listened to. I have my hands over my ears as well as my eyes now.
Back to porn I go.
That's because he was created by atheists to point out how easy it is to make up a deity, and to point out the percieved silliness of religion.
You want a better example? Ok then, howabout the scientologists. we can't prove that Xargon and his intergalactic empire doesn't exist. Therefore it exists. still ok with your argument?
Ever think that all faiths are same faiths?Xargon can easily just have his name changed to "God" or "Whatever the hell your deities name is" , pagans worship many apsects of a creator, we all do in some way, hell athiests use science as much as the "Religious" use a god to back their argument.
If a person wishes to worship a Speghetti Monster that's fine, in the end it's the same as a christian worshipping the god of the jews or a pagan worshipping say "Pan".
If a person can ponder it, concieve it in their minds, it does exist; just not corpreal. Thats religion baby.
Still okay with your debate?
That would be nice in a perfect world. If we could jsut leave eachother alone then everything would be fine and dandy. However, that's not going to happen anytime soon. The christians and atheists are constantly at each others throats, the christians are sending missionaries to 3rd world countries to 'save' them, which makes other religions feel threatened. So in short, every religion, and every belief is constantly in conflict with one another. Why? Because each one is fundamentally different. One believes that this and the other believes that, etc.
Oh, and in answer to your last question, I am still perfectly ok with my debate