Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
It's being done by Sony... woe to the people of short memory
This discussion has been closed.
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Comments
So, "past performance is no indication of future outcome" is "bogus to the nth degree" and "Trend Analysis is the real golden rule" you write. I find it amazingly convenient how your intrepretations of these principles bend to accomodate your argument against SOE.
To begin with, if we look at your assessment of "past peformance..." as you do, then SOE can never improve -- it's doomed to repeat itself. Of course, if past performance always indicated future outcomes, well then it's very surprising that more people aren't richer, drinking that oh-so tasty New Coke in copious amounts and are so glutton for punishment to buy those POS Hyundai's. As it turns out, no you can't look to the past to predict the future and get rich, New Coke flopped horribly after Coca-Cola had been successful for decades and Hyundai overcame its reputation for defective craftsmanship to become one of the powerhouse automakers in the world. But you say past performance is indicative of the future -- you're a firm believer in predestination and therefore SOE cannot change thus we should avoid the agency because they'll screw it up. I'm not buying it, for better or for worse, things change.
Now, let me give a few moments to trend analysis. You say "trend analysis is the real golden rule. Always has and always will be." Wow, so I guess SOE doesn't have a chance, huh? Wait, wait, WAIT! Your very next sentence is "That is how businesses change and evolve to meet their customer demands". So, let's get this straight for everyone following at home: companies analyze their past performance, trends, in order to make....changes. And why exactly can't SOE change? Their NGE customers seem quite happy with what they are getting, vanguard players seem to be happier with the attention SOE is giving them after Sigil's craptacular release and apparently the EQII team is very attentive to its players wishes. So apparently SOE can change, and has been making positive strides for the better of its customers regardless of the fact that you may not agree with it or find it applicable*.
Anyway, so I've first debunked your car dealership analogy. Then (I believe) I clearly defended the principle of past perfomance not being an indicator of future outcomes with real life examples of a good company gone wrong and a company that righted itself. You even used another poor analogy, the craptastic resume. Like your car dealership analogy, if the car is missing a muffler and the resume is full of BS, then you get what you deserve if you throw common sense out the window -- caveat emptor, a fool and his money part quickly. No matter the case, a smart consumer always does due diligence. Finally, I've pointed out your absurd assumption that SOE is the only company that cannot learn from trend analysis. Here, you simply contradicted yourself from the word go. I just find it ironic that you declare this to be the golden rule of business analysis and then restrict SOE from using it -- in hindsight, don't you agree with this observation or were you trying to be argumentative? You then go on to hedge this argument about gamers being addicted. Here we'll have to agree to disagree at a fundamental level: I don't want to hear that gamers are addicted and will buy anything -- they have the power but if they keep buying, they endorse the company as delivering just enough to be worthwhile.
Before clicking "post message", I do want to re-visit this issue of personal attacks. You did some nice, selective cutting and pasting of my quotes, which I don't appreciate. Tell me, who shows up on a forum to bash a game with no basis, particularly when they've presented nothing in the recent past as a credible conversation? *DINGDINGDING* Trolls do and the worst kind are the rabid anti-SOE crowd which so far you have portrayed yourself a member. It's all there but you choose to read what you wish.
kindest regards! ( ' :
* ---v
Edit: multiple edits for grammar and spelling.
SOE killed Tanarus, Infantry and Cosmic Rift games. Three of my favourite games. If they couldn't manage with pre-2000 developed games. What makes you think they will do any better with future complex coded games?
Back then they were "station.com". Why the title change? Did news of their bad business caught up to them?
All I know is. What ever the game this company touches. It sucks the life out of it. They will provide you with a few months of joy and entertainment before taking away all that you hold dear in a cruel way.
-Azure Prower
http://www.youtube.com/AzurePrower
I like SoE, they're not the best choose for a new game, but they're great for an existing game. They improve, change and extend more and in a better way than every other developer. Look at WoW, its the same stuff in every expansion pack again, no new things. Then look at EQ2, its amazing how it changes with every EP. Its noch SoE, its the player, that don't want to give a game a second chance.
That may be, but it is woefully naive to invest in a company that is notorious for bad results and to expect flying colours.
You have said your stance towards gaming is, "dont judge until you've tried it". Then perhaps you should count the OP and his point as a caution.
Unfortunately there are people around that dont have any knowledge of SoE's prior engagements. It is these people SoE target, it is these people that must be warned.
---
---
Yes, I played WoW, i know it at first hand.
God most of you brats were in diapers or just out of them when Verant became SOE(soe was not in existance yet) once they formed SOE they then bought Verant and brought it's talent over.
AS for the SOE hater group yeah they are not perfect in fact and this may surprise you they are human!!!! imagine that. They make mistakes and most of their games like it or not do well if they did not they would not have a division anymore dedicated to mmorpgs. Anyone would know that.
And as most have said as well if you do not like the product MOVE ON, voice your opinion(in a constructive way...refer to the dictionary if you are not sure what that means).
I do not like some of SOE games(just because not my type of genre etc) but there are a few I have been with when it was Verant...in the end it is a game, spew your the hate at something you actually could affect like politics I am sure alot are old enough to vote and do not in the USA yet you bitch about a game and do nothing about who leads the most powerful country in the world....*steps off the pew*
---
Personally I believe that Sony will do a great job in this game.Looking forward to playing it
Are you suggesting that SOE is really an alien population.
I'm not sure where you live, but most humans I know make recurring mistakes. Look at our President.
ROFL!!! Sheeps will be sheeps...
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
At this point I have to agree with the OP, but I hope it isn't this way.
That may be, but it is woefully naive to invest in a company that is notorious for bad results and to expect flying colours.
Wow, did you ignore that entire sentence that past performance" is only a factor of the entire situation? I guess you were betting on Lord of the Rings Online to fail since DDO didn't fare as well as everyone expected and Asheron's Call 2 died? They certainly didn't have a promising future yet managed to pull off a successful game (for casual players).
Reading comprehension is a challenge for you isn't it? My stance is not "don't judge until you've tried it" but "don't judge until you have information you need in front of you." It's an important and not so subtle difference. I'm not advocating buy the game blindly and determine if you like it since potentially rewards the company for a poorly produced game. People should be reading professional reviews, beta reviews and potentially trying to get into beta all so they can make an informed decision.
Who cares?
What's up with these posts proclaiming failure before anyone has seen a thing worth reviewing yet?
It will either be good or it will be bad. No biggie. We'll see when beta starts or certainly at launch.
Don't trust the authors? Shutup and move on to another author's product. Complaining after it's out at least has some merit to warn folks away, but beforehand is nonsense and inflammetory.
If the game comes out and actually has good reviews and word of mouth, then yes I believe that most people would try the game. However, if you ignore the the past consistant trends of endeavors by SOE and have an expectation for success you are simply a fool setting themselves up for disappointment.
The statment that past preformance is no indication of future outcome is not only misapplied to this situation because it has to do with potential profit not enjoyment of an activity (it is quite possible for a game to make money, but still be crap and mismanaged) , but completely nieave. This statment isn't meant to abolish fear of copmpanies that are obviousely ran poorly, but to signfy that just because a product line doesn't succeed that futured product lines by the company may succeed. We already know that MMOS can succeed from a financial aspect, but anyone with any since also knows that SOE will likely rush ther product to market and then nerph the hell out of it until it no longer resembles anything like the game that the people who contined throught the crap release enjoyed palying.
SOE bought Vanguard 4-6 monthes before release realising it wasn't going to be ready for realease and pushed it into release anyway. How is this not SOE's fault?
That may be, but it is woefully naive to invest in a company that is notorious for bad results and to expect flying colours.
Wow, did you ignore that entire sentence that past performance" is only a factor of the entire situation? I guess you were betting on Lord of the Rings Online to fail since DDO didn't fare as well as everyone expected and Asheron's Call 2 died? They certainly didn't have a promising future yet managed to pull off a successful game (for casual players).
The difference between Turbine and SoE, is that DDO failed due to design and gameplay mechanics, NOT becuase it was rush released.
---
SOE bought Vanguard 4-6 monthes before release realising it wasn't going to be ready for realease and pushed it into release anyway. How is this not SOE's fault?
It's not SOE's fault because your facts are incorrect. SOE didn't buy Vanguard until after release. They entered a publishing contract with Sigil during the period that you specify. Sigil then went looking for more VC $$$ and when spent, was forced to release. SOE had no reason to pour money into them ahead of time.
That may be, but it is woefully naive to invest in a company that is notorious for bad results and to expect flying colours.
Wow, did you ignore that entire sentence that past performance" is only a factor of the entire situation? I guess you were betting on Lord of the Rings Online to fail since DDO didn't fare as well as everyone expected and Asheron's Call 2 died? They certainly didn't have a promising future yet managed to pull off a successful game (for casual players).
The difference between Turbine and SoE, is that DDO failed due to design and gameplay mechanics, NOT becuase it was rush released.
Yes, that is a difference. But you seemd to have missed the point that both had poor histories and turbine reversed its fortune. You also seem to have missed the part where the industry has largely experienced a paradigm shift after witnessing Vanguard crash and burn. SOE obviously has been taking better care of its existing client base since then and one would expect that perhaps they've learned it's easier to design and implement properly rather than repair after the fact. Of course we won't know this until the game hits beta and testers and reviewers see it. Until the, you have nothing to base a judgement on and you're trolling for a reaction.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ fine ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well it's a fact.
SOE sucks. Plain and simple. I just wish they'd learn from all their faults already so The Agency won't be hit by the SOE-Hammer like SWG,Vanguard, etc. pp.
Arggh! Stop it, you diehard SoE haters. It's been years since the SWG debacle, and they've actually been quite good since them. SoE is one of the major MMO developers and they have some of the best people. At the same time, they are only human and they have to answer to other people like the business people, so mistakes sometimes get made.
I was a totally hardcore SWG player and I'm totally over it. Years and years have gone by now. Let it go!
As for this game, based on the information we have so far, this is my most highly anticipated game. Of course, like many games, it will probably disappoint. But for now, it looks great.
Haha, on the ball? You're right, a lot has happened in 4 years. To begin with, they butchered SWG. Did everyone forget the NGE while reading up on this game? Also, should I remind you of their other great debacle, Vanguard. Granted they did not create the game, but rather bought out Sigil, then rushed the game to release in typical SOE fashion making the bugs/lag unbearable. Which resulted in yet another SOE flop at launch.
Uh Vanguard was Sigil's fault. Sigil basically spent a year making demos before they even started the game in an effort to sell it to microsoft. Microsoft was too smart fr this but SOE bit hook, line, and sinker. SOE was basically taken in by Sigil's fraud and got suspicious.
Are you a Pavlovian Fish Biscuit Addict? Get Help Now!
I will play no more MMORPGs until somethign good comes out!
SOE bought Vanguard 4-6 monthes before release realising it wasn't going to be ready for realease and pushed it into release anyway. How is this not SOE's fault?
It's not SOE's fault because your facts are incorrect. SOE didn't buy Vanguard until after release. They entered a publishing contract with Sigil during the period that you specify. Sigil then went looking for more VC $$$ and when spent, was forced to release. SOE had no reason to pour money into them ahead of time.
OK they didn't "buy" the game, but you're quibbling the point is SOE choose to publish a game that wasn't ready (as is their MO) that's their fault. They didn't have to sink any more money into it, but they didn't have to produce it either. SOE choose to swindle customers out of there money...again.
It's unfortunate. This is a interesting sounding game and one I've wanted to see. But seeing the name Sony on it worries me.
Guess what sony haters? You are sadly mistaken. Did you know that Lucas Arts has/had their backhand in SOE's pocket on development this whole time? And did you also know that LucasArts pushed them into doing the NGE?
Try *GASP* talking to SOE developers and Smedly and all of them... they aren't *GASP* EVIL... they are average every day people who play MMO's just like US. Lets not base new games upon old development decisions by different teams that had other companies messing with the mmo's...
And no I do not work for SOE and I do not always agree with SOE either...