Ok those were the most stupid arguments i've read in months here. Its like "Crafting is too simple" Respond: "Oh omg and WHY NOT, do you want to move your hands for 3 hours to make a wooden chair?" Its a matter of taste and from my point of view yes i would like to see more complex crafting system. To the second fanboy i would like to point out if he didnt get it that lovecraft/warcraft name was a bit of a sarcasm. Don't stone me for that. Anyway to the points: Yes its no difference if you have 8800gtx 2-4gb ram or you have some 256MB graphic card and 0.5-1GB ram. You can't change the graphics. Just compare it to EQ or vang or even lotro, the changes you can do on the graphics from low settings to high settings are huge. Interface from AC2 was copied not just the layout of the icons on your screen. I guess you never played AC2 otherwise you will find out, wow interface is as close to AC2 as it can be. Yes warcraft style is copied from warhammer, from the miniature boardgame obviously. That was not really copied from AD&D. Just compare the pictures of those two styles, they are completely different. Then compare warcraft and warhammer. Im not talking yes there are orcs and there are elves, im talking about graphic design. You also didnt obviously get the point about what was i talking about solo content. Solo content is not a disadvantage to have. But it is a huuge disadvantage if solo questing or solo grinding is much faster then group questing. Which is in WoW in 90% cases. That means all the lone wolfs are like at home in WoW, and most of the players have no reason to group outside of instances, because soloing is just much faster. Whats the disadvantage that xp death penalty will leave small community afterall? I prefer small community of mature people instead of servers full of shit. Class system IS terrible in the way that you just can't do mixes between classes. The only customization is going throught talent points and itemization. There is no multiclass system. You just get a few new spells every two levels and one talent point. During creating character process the only thing you can change is appearance. This is not just WoW problem, clearly more games have problem with this too easy CC. PVP you are saying some silly comparison to FPS games. While this is MMORPG and WoW was clearly not first that brought battlegrounds into MMORPG. Raiding system the same, its kinda different to make up that idea, then implement that idea to MMORPG. And then just copy the implementation. Lad really if you dont see the difference, you're in a big trouble.
I have to say....what is the point of all this. And please don't give me that fanbois crap because honestly I knew nothing about Warcraft till I played WoW at it's launch and honestly am bored with the game and looking for my next one presently. Still your arguements are short of absurd.
First, please most of you need to raise off the copying rebuttal you toss at people. This is a business though it seems some of you forget this. Every company takes a product by a competitor and tries to evolve it. There is not a game that does not have something from another in it's content. Period. Same goes for your car, your food, your clothes, etc. That is how the world of merchandising is conducted. Doesn't take a genius to figure this out.
Secondly, WoW definitely has its faults. To me the community is the biggest but to say it's full of a bunch of bnet kiddies is a stretch. Now you do not need to be a math wiz to figure probabilities. If you have millions playing a game what do you think the chances are you'll run into someone immature? Pretty damn good. If you have a smaller population then the chances are smaller. Like I said this isn't brain surgery. You can not say it is full of kids and use that arguement. A sensible argument would have been that it may have grown "too" large. I play it and I'm thirty with three kids and a wife. My friend plays and she's thirty four. I have another thirty five year old friend playing. I know a grandmother playing. I know seven other married couple. I have military buds playing and so forth. Last I checked they aren't kids.
Now does it have too much solo content? Yes, possibly upon a personal opinion. But since that content has netted them the millions of subscribers and gained them a tremendous base of players/fans then I can't say it is negative in the general view because my personal view obviously does not influence those millions playing. Hard to say it is a bad thing when so many enjoy it which was the idea and target the company had. I think many of us know the reason this game is so popular is because how it is so available to the casual gamer. That was what Blizzard wanted and guess what....they got it. I've played games that had too much party content in my opinion (FF) so it all comes down to a personal opinion and playstyle. But Blizzard's approach has done better than any so like I said can't say it failed there.
Crafting too easy. I don't think anyone can really say WoW crafting is hard. But for someone like me who can care less about crafting I don't think much on it. When I played one MMO it made me really despise crafting because I was taking time out from my leveling or farming to craft just to watch it fail and ingredients lost. Well Blizz made their system to avoid that. Good or bad thing is a personal view. Like I said, I pretty much never card for crafting anyway after that one MMO destroyed it for me.
I do wish there was more risk when you died. I never could understand why people bitched and moaned after a wipe or dying when all it meant was a little higher repair billl and running back. Big whoop. I have played games where you loss xp, were weakened and could lose items. That pushed the gaming to another level in my opinion. But again this makes sense because the game was geared to the casual gamer. Blizz made this game trying to mix the two worlds of the hardcore gamers through the raids and the pvp grinding and the casual gamers with the solo content and 5 man instancing. So they must have felt the dealth penalty needed to be balance between this which makes sense. It would have been foolish of them to make so much casual content then penalize you dearly for it.
In the end it is about personal opinion but none can argue with the fact of amount of subscribers WoW has or the success it has found with a diversity of players.Is it everyone's cup of tea? Of course not. There isn't a single game out there that is. Does it has it's faults? Of course it does because again there isn't a game out there that doesn't. But some of the point people raise is personal opinion and some just absurd. Just answer the thread topic and move on.
Secondly, WoW definitely has its faults. To me the community is the biggest but to say it's full of a bunch of bnet kiddies is a stretch. Now you do not need to be a math wiz to figure probabilities. If you have millions playing a game what do you think the chances are you'll run into someone immature? Pretty damn good. If you have a smaller population then the chances are smaller. Like I said this isn't brain surgery. You can not say it is full of kids and use that arguement. A sensible argument would have been that it may have grown "too" large. I play it and I'm thirty with three kids and a wife. My friend plays and she's thirty four. I have another thirty five year old friend playing. I know a grandmother playing. I know seven other married couple. I have military buds playing and so forth. Last I checked they aren't kids. In the end it is about personal opinion but none can argue with the fact of amount of subscribers WoW has or the success it has found with a diversity of players.Is it everyone's cup of tea? Of course not. There isn't a single game out there that is. Does it has it's faults? Of course it does because again there isn't a game out there that doesn't. But some of the point people raise is personal opinion and some just absurd. Just answer the thread topic and move on.
The first part is not true. It has nothing to do how big the community is.Its still a portion of a community that is silly, and in WoW its much larger portion then in any other MMORPG. I was of course talking about the percentage not about the raw number.
Second part yes of course its subjective and personal taste. This topic is about subjective personal taste. "What is the worst thing about this game" Pretty subjective isnt it.
Ok those were the most stupid arguments i've read in months here. Its like "Crafting is too simple" Respond: "Oh omg and WHY NOT, do you want to move your hands for 3 hours to make a wooden chair?" Its a matter of taste and from my point of view yes i would like to see more complex crafting system. As you say right there , your point of view, Me and the 8.5 million other players that want to play a warrior dont wanna spend 1/2 our time in game making nails, to be used on shaped wood. that is combined with 500 other intricate uselss parts to make 1 item, silly us for wanting to, you knwo PLAY OUR WARRIOR. I recommened EQ2, at least EQ2 a year ago when I left cause I couldnt stand the sheer boredem in that game. but it had the complex crafting you ask for. To the second fanboy i would like to point out if he didnt get it that lovecraft/warcraft name was a bit of a sarcasm. Don't stone me for that. I appoligize for not being able to hear the sarcasium in your voice, thru text. Other then that if you say Directly , like you did, that warcraft name was a rip off from Lovecraft, well.. like I'm said sorry I couldnt "hear" your sarcasum and assumed you ment what you typed. Anyway to the points: Yes its no difference if you have 8800gtx 2-4gb ram or you have some 256MB graphic card and 0.5-1GB ram. You can't change the graphics. Just compare it to EQ or vang or even lotro, the changes you can do on the graphics from low settings to high settings are huge. lol you just named the 3 most BLAND games out, granted EQ is dated , but vang? seriously gfx looked like a direct copy and paste from SWG. lotr didnt live up to teh visuals the books author created in words, might have been ok if you had only ever seen the movies, But for those of us taht read the books we will tellyou, the game lacks. ANyway, the fact is. I have 2 computers, a high end and a low end, and both play the game fine, I can see more detail on my highend. to argue that is moot cause I have it here, if you compare 2 high end systems, gee yeah I supose you wont see a improvent, in ,... a .... 3 .. year.. old ... game ... curse them for being..err...3 years old. Interface from AC2 was copied not just the layout of the icons on your screen. I guess you never played AC2 otherwise you will find out, wow interface is as close to AC2 as it can be. No I havent played AC2. Yes other games had that set up pre that game, Diablo for example, personally I thought the first day I ever saw a SS of WOW when I was still in SWG that I thought it was very cool they made it close to the old Diablo interface. Yes warcraft style is copied from warhammer, from the miniature boardgame obviously. That was not really copied from AD&D. Just compare the pictures of those two styles, they are completely different. Then compare warcraft and warhammer. Im not talking yes there are orcs and there are elves, im talking about graphic design. Im sorry, I dont see it, only thing REMOTELY simular is the fact orcs have large shoulder pads, and if thats yoru referance actually you meen a copy of the GURPS dice games which Warhammer basically ripped off for visuals and concept art You also didnt obviously get the point about what was i talking about solo content. Solo content is not a disadvantage to have. But it is a huuge disadvantage if solo questing or solo grinding is much faster then group questing. Which is in WoW in 90% cases. That means all the lone wolfs are like at home in WoW, and most of the players have no reason to group outside of instances, because soloing is just much faster. As opposed to EVERCAMP raids, or Final fantasy look for group for 6 hours to do one quest, YES 90% of players DONT want to HAVE to be forced in a guild or raid party that unless they want the epic item, believe it or not there is this whole big huge population of adults that play games and have enough things in LIFE we have to do all ready. the fact that we can log in and do quests out our own pace is BY FAR more enjoyable and relaxing. thats fine if you have thet Dire need to be including socially into stuff and even be where PPL need you , Many of us DONT have that in us and our lives and would just assume do stuff ourselves . and not have to waste what lilttle time we haev to play standing LFG. you need to realize many of us cant afford to be logged in 22 hours a day, most of us have real lives and jobs and spouses and alot even have kids of tehr eown they take care of and JUST cant stand LFG begging YOU to help them. not our fault you play on the internet for social interaction, were here to play a video game, not give you a social setting. Whats the disadvantage that xp death penalty will leave small community afterall? I prefer small community of mature people instead of servers full of shit. Lets see.. small community = mature... HAHAHAHHAH go play RF online and tell me thats how it works. Lets see one minute you said you want a game where you have to have groups to do stuff, now your saying you want a small community? I personally think you have a blind hate for wow and it cant possibly exisit in your lil close minded world that there are MILLIONS of people that DO NOT agree with what you think. deal with it. Class system IS terrible in the way that you just can't do mixes between classes. The only customization is going throught talent points and itemization. There is no multiclass system. No there is not a multicalss, WOW is not EQ2. it is not any other game other then WOW. OMG they didnt copy someone . hold the phone.... You just get a few new spells every two levels and one talent point. Have you ever played D&D or AD&D lol where you get 1 new spell or talent every 5 levels? During creating character process the only thing you can change is appearance. This is not just WoW problem, clearly more games have problem with this too easy CC. If I really wanted to play dress up I'd still play Second life, or the sims, maybe you might like those alot more, try em. PVP you are saying some silly comparison to FPS games. While this is MMORPG and WoW was clearly not first that brought battlegrounds into MMORPG. Agreed it was the romans with war games or the greek with the olympics, WOW never claimed to innovate PVP, infact, WOW pvp is a side mini-game, that don't even get mentioned on any of there boxes or Ads. SO what is your point with PVP, they didn't invent PVP... well yeah ...lol they dont even mention it on there boxes Raiding system the same, its kinda different to make up that idea, then implement that idea to MMORPG. And then just copy the implementation. Lad really if you dont see the difference, you're in a big trouble. DId you read my post? the first multiplayer co-op raid was in D&D in 1974, in a adventure pack that was basically set up as a instanced dungeon. Anything after 1974 is copying that. You know , Henry Ford invented a gasoline powered car in 1909, maybe chevy, honda, and nissan should all stop making cars and get there own Idea. wake up.. if you have a great idea and people love it , guess what, people will copy and improve those ideas, its called modern advancement, if it wasn't for that your computer would take up the size of a basketball court and we all be driving on dirt roads at a massive 6MPH in model T's.
Miataka (+many sub variation of that) ~WoW (Kael'Thas, USA) MiaTaka ~ RF On-line (Fire Server) -Mia- takahashi ~SWG (Europe-chimaera) Miataki Valeinca ~EQ 2 (everfrost) MiaTaka Soyinka ~Second Life
Yes its no difference if you have 8800gtx 2-4gb ram or you have some 256MB graphic card and 0.5-1GB ram. You can't change the graphics. Just compare it to EQ or vang or even lotro, the changes you can do on the graphics from low settings to high settings are huge. lol you just named the 3 most BLAND games out, granted EQ is dated , but vang? seriously gfx looked like a direct copy and paste from SWG. lotr didnt live up to teh visuals the books author created in words, might have been ok if you had only ever seen the movies, But for those of us taht read the books we will tellyou, the game lacks. I read the books, I was talking about the graphic settings you can have. From very low settings to very high settings. You can play with numerous (over 50) different graphic options. In wow you have like 5 where on low settings it looks bad.. and on max settings it still looks bad. EQ2 is older game then WoW and on max settings it looks great. In lotro the difference between low settings and high settings are huge. Like playing 2 different games one released in 2000 and one in 2007.
Whats the disadvantage that xp death penalty will leave small community afterall? I prefer small community of mature people instead of servers full of shit. Lets see.. small community = mature... HAHAHAHHAH go play RF online and tell me thats how it works. Lets see one minute you said you want a game where you have to have groups to do stuff, now your saying you want a small community? I personally think you have a blind hate for wow and it cant possibly exisit in your lil close minded world that there are MILLIONS of people that DO NOT agree with what you think. deal with it. Lad I never mentioned that small community automatically means mature community. I said i prefer smaller and mature community over large and childish. Class system IS terrible in the way that you just can't do mixes between classes. The only customization is going throught talent points and itemization. There is no multiclass system. No there is not a multicalss, WOW is not EQ2. it is not any other game other then WOW. OMG they didnt copy someone . hold the phone.... You just get a few new spells every two levels and one talent point. Have you ever played D&D or AD&D lol where you get 1 new spell or talent every 5 levels? In D&D 3rd edition .. 1 spell every 5 levels? You got noncombat skills improving each level based on your intelligence. You get 6 abilities you buy with points at the character creation. Every few levels you get a feat from a huge list. Mages must pick up their spells during level up or learn new from scrolls. Plus the most important you can multiclass into any other class everytime you level up gaining lvl 1 abilities of that class. Much more thinking needed to balance out your character, much more depth and player control over his character. In AD&D (2nd edition) you still had those noncombat proficiencies, and at each level you could multiclass into other class. In White wolf system you actually buy your abilities with points. No level up system but everytime you recieve experience you can spend it and improve any ability you like. Huge player control over his character. In GURPS system is very close to white wolf just that it uses d100. Lots of thinking at each level. Im not saying MMORPG games should be as complex as PnP versions, but some more player control over character development would be more then welcomed. I dont want to level up just to get fixed amount of hit points, fixed amount of mana and a couple of new spells every second level. In addition when all gets the same. During creating character process the only thing you can change is appearance. This is not just WoW problem, clearly more games have problem with this too easy CC. If I really wanted to play dress up I'd still play Second life, or the sims, maybe you might like those alot more, try em. I dont want more hair visuals. I want picking up abilities right at the beginning, picking up spells, not just class. WoW is made that no research is needed to roll a character. Thats simple and lacking any depth.
One of the reasons so many people play wow is the graphics. Sure they arnt great and deffinately cartoonish, but you can play the game on any decent comp. mine is quite a few years old and it ran WoW fine, I dont need some insane computer to run the game which is nice
People constantly bash WoW for no reason. What's so bad about it? Someone once told me it suffers from repetitiveness. Anything else?
Here is my reason for not playing WOW any more.
1. The community, the most childess arogant community in the history of MMO's.. Seriously its worse then the FPS if you can believe that.
2. They killed what little world pvp they had.. The introduction of the "Honor system" (ahh the irony), pretty much ruined World pvp.. Everthing become instance pvp in a bottle.
3. To many servers.. Instead of limiting the server number (with in reason) they kept opening new server after server.. The result? Instead of people rolling on the same server that their main is on, and keeping a healty population both low and high lvl, they just go to another new server.. Which makes finding grps if you didn't start off in beggining hard. Add that to the fact that now you have alot of servers that are pretty full and then alot that are pretty empty or unblanced ratio wise and it just adds up to a complete mess.
4. To much raiding... Seriously spending hours apon hours just to get the chance that I might get the chance to roll on a item that has a chance of dropping from a certain mob is just to much for me....I like raiding and all but gimme AO type raiding not WOW's type of raiding.
All in all I think WOW was the best MMORPG ever made(so far), yes I said it.. But at the same time its the worst one do to those things I posted being huge let downs for me. How can a game be the Worst MMO and then the Best MMO as well? Dunno but Blizzard managed it somehow....
------------------------------ You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
I still play, its just the most fun of the current mmorpgs out there. Granted, the community if you listen to alot of it, is completely immature, and the grind, oh the grind, will drive you nuts, but its still got a visceral feel when play that is hard to put down.
The worst part of the game for me is the lack of sandbox options. No player housing, collections, indepth crafting, and far too much content not able to be seen except by about 10 % of the gaming populace via raids.
This is why Warhammer is looking ten times better every day for me, it looks like it has the fun and mass alt playing that WoW has but adds the sandbox elements I so crave.
Comments
First, please most of you need to raise off the copying rebuttal you toss at people. This is a business though it seems some of you forget this. Every company takes a product by a competitor and tries to evolve it. There is not a game that does not have something from another in it's content. Period. Same goes for your car, your food, your clothes, etc. That is how the world of merchandising is conducted. Doesn't take a genius to figure this out.
Secondly, WoW definitely has its faults. To me the community is the biggest but to say it's full of a bunch of bnet kiddies is a stretch. Now you do not need to be a math wiz to figure probabilities. If you have millions playing a game what do you think the chances are you'll run into someone immature? Pretty damn good. If you have a smaller population then the chances are smaller. Like I said this isn't brain surgery. You can not say it is full of kids and use that arguement. A sensible argument would have been that it may have grown "too" large. I play it and I'm thirty with three kids and a wife. My friend plays and she's thirty four. I have another thirty five year old friend playing. I know a grandmother playing. I know seven other married couple. I have military buds playing and so forth. Last I checked they aren't kids.
Now does it have too much solo content? Yes, possibly upon a personal opinion. But since that content has netted them the millions of subscribers and gained them a tremendous base of players/fans then I can't say it is negative in the general view because my personal view obviously does not influence those millions playing. Hard to say it is a bad thing when so many enjoy it which was the idea and target the company had. I think many of us know the reason this game is so popular is because how it is so available to the casual gamer. That was what Blizzard wanted and guess what....they got it. I've played games that had too much party content in my opinion (FF) so it all comes down to a personal opinion and playstyle. But Blizzard's approach has done better than any so like I said can't say it failed there.
Crafting too easy. I don't think anyone can really say WoW crafting is hard. But for someone like me who can care less about crafting I don't think much on it. When I played one MMO it made me really despise crafting because I was taking time out from my leveling or farming to craft just to watch it fail and ingredients lost. Well Blizz made their system to avoid that. Good or bad thing is a personal view. Like I said, I pretty much never card for crafting anyway after that one MMO destroyed it for me.
I do wish there was more risk when you died. I never could understand why people bitched and moaned after a wipe or dying when all it meant was a little higher repair billl and running back. Big whoop. I have played games where you loss xp, were weakened and could lose items. That pushed the gaming to another level in my opinion. But again this makes sense because the game was geared to the casual gamer. Blizz made this game trying to mix the two worlds of the hardcore gamers through the raids and the pvp grinding and the casual gamers with the solo content and 5 man instancing. So they must have felt the dealth penalty needed to be balance between this which makes sense. It would have been foolish of them to make so much casual content then penalize you dearly for it.
In the end it is about personal opinion but none can argue with the fact of amount of subscribers WoW has or the success it has found with a diversity of players.Is it everyone's cup of tea? Of course not. There isn't a single game out there that is. Does it has it's faults? Of course it does because again there isn't a game out there that doesn't. But some of the point people raise is personal opinion and some just absurd. Just answer the thread topic and move on.
Second part yes of course its subjective and personal taste. This topic is about subjective personal taste. "What is the worst thing about this game" Pretty subjective isnt it.
REALITY CHECK
Miataka (+many sub variation of that)
~WoW (Kael'Thas, USA)
MiaTaka
~ RF On-line (Fire Server)
-Mia- takahashi
~SWG (Europe-chimaera)
Miataki Valeinca
~EQ 2 (everfrost)
MiaTaka Soyinka
~Second Life
REALITY CHECK
One of the reasons so many people play wow is the graphics. Sure they arnt great and deffinately cartoonish, but you can play the game on any decent comp. mine is quite a few years old and it ran WoW fine, I dont need some insane computer to run the game which is nice
1. The community, the most childess arogant community in the history of MMO's.. Seriously its worse then the FPS if you can believe that.
2. They killed what little world pvp they had.. The introduction of the "Honor system" (ahh the irony), pretty much ruined World pvp.. Everthing become instance pvp in a bottle.
3. To many servers.. Instead of limiting the server number (with in reason) they kept opening new server after server.. The result? Instead of people rolling on the same server that their main is on, and keeping a healty population both low and high lvl, they just go to another new server.. Which makes finding grps if you didn't start off in beggining hard. Add that to the fact that now you have alot of servers that are pretty full and then alot that are pretty empty or unblanced ratio wise and it just adds up to a complete mess.
4. To much raiding... Seriously spending hours apon hours just to get the chance that I might get the chance to roll on a item that has a chance of dropping from a certain mob is just to much for me....I like raiding and all but gimme AO type raiding not WOW's type of raiding.
All in all I think WOW was the best MMORPG ever made(so far), yes I said it.. But at the same time its the worst one do to those things I posted being huge let downs for me. How can a game be the Worst MMO and then the Best MMO as well? Dunno but Blizzard managed it somehow....
------------------------------
You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
I still play, its just the most fun of the current mmorpgs out there. Granted, the community if you listen to alot of it, is completely immature, and the grind, oh the grind, will drive you nuts, but its still got a visceral feel when play that is hard to put down.
The worst part of the game for me is the lack of sandbox options. No player housing, collections, indepth crafting, and far too much content not able to be seen except by about 10 % of the gaming populace via raids.
This is why Warhammer is looking ten times better every day for me, it looks like it has the fun and mass alt playing that WoW has but adds the sandbox elements I so crave.