Warhammer 25+ years of IP Warcraft 15 years of IP WoW - Evil forces known as the Burning Legion ( Demons ) from another dimension invade the world WAR - Evil forces known as the Hordes of Chaos ( Demons ) invade from another dimension invade the world. WoW - Orcs from outer space invade and run a muck. WAR - Orcs who are said not to be native to the Warhammer world and reproduce via fungal spores invade and run a muck. Dark Portal = Chaos Gates WAR Dark Elves = High Elves in WoW Night Elves = High Elves in WAR Stormwind/Alliance Humans = The Empire Burning Legion = Hordes of Chaos Scourge in WoW = Nagash and his army of undead in Warhammer that once invaded the Empire. WoW - Arthas former hero of the Alliance who falls from grace WAR - Archeon "Lord of End Times" rumored to be a former hero of the Empire who falls from grace. He succumbs to the taint of Chaos and leads the Hordes of Chaos. God's known as the Titans in WoW = Lizardmen god's known as the Old Ones The "Light" = Sigmar Religion I could go on and on and on and on.......
QFT
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
WoW - Evil forces from another dimension invade the world WAR - Evil Chaos forces from another dimension invade the world. WoW - Orcs from outer space invade and run a muck. WAR - Orcs who are said not to be native to the Warhammer world and reproduce via fungal spores invade and run a muck. Dark Portal = Chaos Gates WAR Dark Elves = High Elves in WoW Night Elves = High Elves in WAR Stormwind/Alliance Humans = The Empire Burning Legion = Hordes of Chaos Scourge in WoW = Nagash and his army of undead in Warhammer that once invaded the Empire in WAR. WoW - Arthas former hero of the Alliance who falls from grace WAR - Archeon "Lord of End Times" rumored to be a former hero of the Empire who falls from grace and leads succumbus to the taint of Chaos and leads the Hordes of Chaos. God's known as the Titans in WoW = Lizardmen god's known as the Old Ones The "Light" = Sigmar Religion I could go on and on and on and on.......
QFT!
Forces from another world invading=Yeah, no other fantasy but WoW and WAR use that.... Dark Portal=Yeah, never heard of any fantasy story bedies these two that have a gate to another dimension mentioned... Elves and Dark Elves=ZOMG! Elves! Never seen those in fantasy before. Heroes falling from grace=TOTALLY unique concept. Reeeaaalllly... Titans/Old Ones=Gods? Interfering with mortals? Never happened before. EVER.
OK kids, let's face it. Yes these two series have similarties..... TO EVERY SINGLE FANTASY WORLD/SERIES/IDEA SINCE THE DAWN OF BLOODY TIME. Get over it. There are no original ideas.
Yes but come on those similarities are a little to close for comfort in many, many areas with both IP's. Especially when you consider the past history between GW and Blizzard.
Then again let's look at Starcraft....
SC Terran's = 40K Space Marines/Imperium of Man
SC Protoss = Eldars/Tau
SC Zerg = Tyranids
Blizzard has a nice pattern going on here with mirroring themes from GW. It's not as indistinct as you are making it sound. Of course I am not suggesting that all those ideas are original to GW but come on WoW and SC bare more then a passing resemblance to both WAR and WAR 40k.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Yes but come on those similarities are a little to close for comfort in many, many areas with both IP's. Especially when you consider the past history between GW and Blizzard. Then again let's look at Starcraft.... SC Terran's = 40K Space Marines/Imperium of Man SC Protoss = Eldars/Tau SC Zerg = Tyranids Blizzard has a nice pattern going with mirroring themes from GW. It's not as indistinct as you are making it sound.
QFT
And with "Dawn of War" was Games Workshop very smart. They knew that Starcraft have used there popular races.
So with Dwan of War it was
Space Marines (Starcraft ripped off Terran)
Eldar (Starcraft ripped off Protoss)
Ork (Dunno, they are in every game anyway),
Chaos (none, thanks god for that).
Lets say that Games work used, Space Marine, Eldar and Tyranids (Starcraft counter part aka Zerg) then we have something very similar to Starcraft. So thanks god for that. I remember back then when there issue with Dawn of War = Starcraft 0.5 and so on.....sigh
In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war.
The first is that many of the things mentioned are archetypical fantasy elements that have been in everything since Tolkien/D&D. And yes, this holds true for 40k vs Starcraft too. And actually, I can make a tantastic argument that if anything, Starcraft is a direct copy of Robert Heinlein's novel Starship troopers even more than it is 40K
The other is the sheer fact that Blizzard essentially DID sort of steal the idea for Warcraft. Many years ago Blizz and GW collaborated on a Warhammer RTS. The two companies never agreed on things and the project was a flop. However Blizzard, it is said, revamped the graphics, altered the storyline a bit, and voila! Warcraft.
But again, They both steal from Tolkien. So let's start making LoTRO comparisons now, to
Games workshop plan to make a Warhammer 40K mmorpg and if Blizzard really want to make a Starcraft mmorpg then we have similarties again in year 2010. Help....
Originally posted by terrant But again, They both steal from Tolkien. So let's start making LoTRO comparisons now, to
Character/Race wise yes...Story wise and mood wise in regards to WAR not really as much. I never read about whole villages being burnt to the ground and everyone killed off by the forces Gondor because someone was born with a extra toe.
The Empire in WAR is a wee bit xenophobic and anyone born with even a minor birth defect is pretty much viewed with deep suspicion if not killed outright at birth or later on in life by over zealous Witch Hunters.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Yup and it could even get worse. Games workshop plan to make a Warhammer 40K mmorpg and if Blizzard really want to make a Starcraft mmorpg then we have similarties again in year 2010. Help....
Again, go read Starship Troopers. Or better yet, I'll summarize it for you.
It takes place in the future, where the brave Marines of the Mobile Infantry face off on several planets against a horde of insectlike alines (the Bugs) who seek to destroy humanity.
Along the way they tangle with and at some points ally with the Skinnies, a race of tall, slender, technologically advanced aliens who are as opposed to the Bugs as the Marines are.
Did I mention these Marines wear suits of power armor, and the book was written in the 70s?
Firstly, I respond the same way I always respond to this discussion, and one of the posters on the first page said it too:
Blizz took their orignal character models from Warhammer, especially orcs. Therefor, while both have changed and evolved since then, it's logical that they would appear similar.
Secondly, Regarding the dwarf comparison pics:
Look at any decent looking dwarf in games. They all look like that. :P If they didn't, they'd just be large gnomes. And no one wants that.
-------------------------------- -Been there, done that: Xsyon, WoW, EVE, Maplestory, City of Heroes, Guild Wars, Warhammer Online, FF11, Rift -Currently playing: Not MMOs -Wants to check out: SWTOR, Dark Millennium
But again, They both steal from Tolkien. So let's start making LoTRO comparisons now, to
Character/Race wise yes...Story wise and mood wise in regards to WAR not really as much. I never read about whole villages being burnt to the ground and everyone killed off by the forces Gondor because someone was born with a extra toe.
The Empire in WAR is a wee bit xenophobic and anyone born with even a minor birth defect is pretty much viewed with deep suspicion if not killed outright at birth or later on in life by over zealous Witch Hunters.
See that's where they vary in my opinion. the Empire and the Human nations of the Alliance in WOW always seemed very different to me. Dwarves and Elves are pretty much the same in both series but..hey...let's face it...they're both VERY much spawned from Tolkine. Elves noble and magical, dwarves mountain-dwellers with a love of mining. And Orcs...well de Orcs is orcs, all der world ova!
Yo i thought wow was out for like 2 years now? How did wow travel to the future and copy warhammers video game concept art?
And man, I've been looking at the screenshots of war and I don't even think they look as good as wow. Maybe more detail but the models are kind of cheezy.
lol ownt
Playing: Everthing Played: DAoC,AC2,EvE,SWG,WAR,MXO,CoX,EQ2,L2,LOTRO,SB,UO,WoW. I have played every MMO that has ever come out.
basically, blizz ran out of ideas, did a little ctrl + C and ctrl + V on some of the warhammer lore / art, which has been around for DECADES before WC was even an afterthought. There, thats where it starts, and ends. It's skin deep. They may look the same, WoW came out 1st, who cares, warhammer has been here for ages. If anything, WoW copied warhammer. If ppl would actually read at max 3 articles on WAR they'd realize that its nothing like WoW THANK GOD. WoW - PvE WAR - PvP. Its much more thought out and much more brutal than WoW. Iunno where im goin after that. Feel free to add to this, flame me, ignore me, touch me inappropriately, I enjoy them all. Sticky plz. /rant off
Remember this.
Games Workshop, who designed the World of Warhammer back in 1983, took many ideas and impression from the work of Tolkien, as well as other European influence. The game Warhammer, while it has a dark under tone, has always had a little sense of humor. The art from the 80s was cartoonish, yet dark.
Mythic, in keeping with the basic art concept establish by Games Workshop, began to use their model and art that is nearly 25 years old to make the model for the MMOG. While the color texture may appear similar to WoW, the model design of the Dwarf and Orc is within the traditional style of Games Workshop's creation that has been around since 1983. The only similarity of the 2 games is truly that it shares the same level of color texture. The only game Mythic is copying is the work that has been in place by the artist that had worked for Games Workshop.
It is said that Blizzard tried to license Warhammer from Games Workshop back during the development of the original Warcraft. For whatever reason, the deal fell through. Instead of scratching the project, Blizzard made some modifications to the graphics and art, created their own backstory, and called it Warcraft, their own new IP. Hence, the two look extremely similar because one was actually based off of the other.
Playing: Everthing Played: DAoC,AC2,EvE,SWG,WAR,MXO,CoX,EQ2,L2,LOTRO,SB,UO,WoW. I have played every MMO that has ever come out.
But again, They both steal from Tolkien. So let's start making LoTRO comparisons now, to
Character/Race wise yes...Story wise and mood wise in regards to WAR not really as much. I never read about whole villages being burnt to the ground and everyone killed off by the forces Gondor because someone was born with a extra toe.
The Empire in WAR is a wee bit xenophobic and anyone born with even a minor birth defect is pretty much viewed with deep suspicion if not killed outright at birth or later on in life by over zealous Witch Hunters.
See that's where they vary in my opinion. the Empire and the Human nations of the Alliance in WOW always seemed very different to me. Dwarves and Elves are pretty much the same in both series but..hey...let's face it...they're both VERY much spawned from Tolkine. Elves noble and magical, dwarves mountain-dwellers with a love of mining. And Orcs...well de Orcs is orcs, all der world ova!
I must have missed it in the book where they describe Orks (with a K) as 6 foot tall GREEN skinned fungus creatures from space. They breed by spores too... I think that was in the hobbit... wait no... return of the king.
The chaos gods with their beastmen and warriors of living armor. Yes that was in the two towers... pretty sure.
*smacks head* I totally forgot about the Skaven... Didn't Frodo have one chasing him... no... that was something else... I think the skaven were pets of the dwarves... yeah Gimli mentions his pet Skaven ratty when they are traveling...
So glad you cleared that up... oh wait... forgot GW ripping off starship troopers.
Space orks, Eldar lived in ships the size of worlds, chaos, stunties in space... and much much more... Oh space marines being pretty much devout in their unique orders...
Yup that sums it up nicely... GW did nothing original... course you can provide the sources where they pulled Chaos, Skaven, Green alien orks, and spiritual space marines... right?
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
I must have missed it in the book where they describe Orks (with a K) as 6 foot tall GREEN skinned fungus creatures from space. They breed by spores too... I think that was in the hobbit... wait no... return of the king.
The chaos gods with their beastmen and warriors of living armor. Yes that was in the two towers... pretty sure. *smacks head* I totally forgot about the Skaven... Didn't Frodo have one chasing him... no... that was something else... I think the skaven were pets of the dwarves... yeah Gimli mentions his pet Skaven ratty when they are traveling... So glad you cleared that up... oh wait... forgot GW ripping off starship troopers. Space orks, Eldar lived in ships the size of worlds, chaos, stunties in space... and much much more... Oh space marines being pretty much devout in their unique orders... Yup that sums it up nicely... GW did nothing original... course you can provide the sources where they pulled Chaos, Skaven, Green alien orks, and spiritual space marines... right?
I never said a thing about the spores being in Tolkien. But in everything from the first time they've been in any media on, Orcs (however you spell em) have been a warlike, barbaric race usually associated with evil who thirve on destruction and chaos. And as I recall they are depicted as grayish green in LOTR.
I also never said Chaos was in LOTR. The Chaos Gods are very similar to a number of D&D pantheons though...and let's not forget HP Lovecraft's Old Ones.
Skaven? Not in LoTR...but Ratlings have been a D&D race/monster for decades. World-sozed ships have been around for ages too..Rama comes to mind, or Larry Niven's Ringworld. As for the Marines? Look up Knight Templars. That was the inspiration for that.
I'll retract (partially) what I said about nothing being original. GW certainly did put an unusual twist on traditional fantasy when they created Warhammer. But and however, most if not all of their races/species/ideas were, if not directly copying, at least strongly influenced by Tolkien and other forms of conventional Western fantasy.
And Tolkien took ideas from old European folk tales and stories. This topic is overplayed and boring, and im sure complaing about it in threads is also. I'm sure the avg gamer that pics up this game, looks on the box and sees 25 years of Warhammer they can figure something out, if not im sure they will check out the trailer for the game when loading it up. Will they know Blizzard ripped off Gamesworkshop? maybe maybe not, they will play and keep playing only if this game is fun, and from the looks of all the info and feedback from all the gamesday people, it sure seems it will be.
I never said a thing about the spores being in Tolkien. But in everything from the first time they've been in any media on, Orcs (however you spell em) have been a warlike, barbaric race usually associated with evil who thirve on destruction and chaos. And as I recall they are depicted as grayish green in LOTR.
I also never said Chaos was in LOTR. The Chaos Gods are very similar to a number of D&D pantheons though...and let's not forget HP Lovecraft's Old Ones. Skaven? Not in LoTR...but Ratlings have been a D&D race/monster for decades. World-sozed ships have been around for ages too..Rama comes to mind, or Larry Niven's Ringworld. As for the Marines? Look up Knight Templars. That was the inspiration for that. I'll retract (partially) what I said about nothing being original. GW certainly did put an unusual twist on traditional fantasy when they created Warhammer. But and however, most if not all of their races/species/ideas were, if not directly copying, at least strongly influenced by Tolkien and other forms of conventional Western fantasy.
OK class... lets begin.
1) "Orc" or "Ork" is an Old English word which appears in the epic Beowulf and refers to the undead monsters of Grendel's race (orc-néas "orc-corpses" ). Tolkien translated orc as "demon" or "evil spirit or bogey"; he claimed he used the word because of its "phonetic suitability"
GW orks were made after Beowulf not Tolkien orcs.
2) Tolkien describes Orcs explicitly in one of his Letters: "...they are (or were) squat, broad, flat-nosed, sallow-skinned, with wide mouths and slant eyes; in fact degraded and repulsive versions of the (to Europeans) least lovely Mongol-types."
Tolkien orcs were deep brown or black. GW was the first to put green skin on orks. D&D orcs did copy the Tolkien look.
3) The chaos gods do not reflect any fiction writing except maybe Khorne which resembles a god from the original deities book from D&D. The exception to this is the slight influence taken from the work of Michael Moorcock as to the over all feel of warhammer chaos.
Nurgle, slaanesh, and tzeentch are original concepts by GW.
4) Ratlings were in the first monster manual but had no history or background... simply if was a 1/2 rat 1/2 man creature.
Skaven were fleshed out in concept and design by GW. They are a unique race with no relation other then partial physical description by the original monster manual.
5) Eldar and their craftworld ships were original concepts by GW. The term eldar was pulled from again the Norse language meaning fire. Ironically in later excerpts from Tolkien letters not released until 2000... a subsection of elves were also called Eldar.
While you can make general similarities with other fiction. (a space ship is a space ship) This was original work by GW.
Finally space marines... while there was previous fiction about power armor (again generic is generic) The look and philosophy of the space marines was unique to GW 40K. At best you can say GW took minor inspiration from a hand full of fiction already out... but they definitely made it uniquely their own.
If you can say anything about warhammer is that GW pulled heavily from the norse culture. The Tolkien argument is naive and mostly false. There are similarities yes... but minor inspiration is hardly the same as flagrant duplication which you imply in your posts.
Hope that clears things up.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
I did not want to do that... it is too much work... but at some point you have to show where the truth stops and the lies begin. Hopefully I got through to some people.
TY.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
and how about the 2 waring elven nations? One is Destructive and obsessive and the other is arrogant and nature loving?
Could blood elves and night elves not be like Drucchi and High Elves?
Give blizard credit. They made the warcraft empire out of the game plan and design that was copied from Games workshop and warhammer. But lets be honest boys and girls, warcraft and Starcraft are absolute blockbusters.
In the last 1400's Leonardo Da'Vinchi came up with an idea of how to make a machine how to fly and called an ornathopter. (tolken)
The british Sir George Cayley Discovered aero dynamics and opened our eyes to the idea that yes you can and will be able to fly and people will be able to fly, these are the rules on how to. (Dungeons and Dragons giving us the idea about the fantasy world as a game)
Far into the Future, the Americans and the Wright brothers took up the idea and in North Carolina created a glider and created the first airplane and prety much discovering flight. Thus issueing in a whole new era and creating ideas for years to come. (Games workshop inventing warhammer)
The Romanian scientist took this idea of flight and said "we can make this better" and came up with jets. Everyone loved jets. Jets are all over the place today and most every country has jer aircraft to this day. We all know the silly americans and the Wright brothers started all this airplane stuff, but we have moved past them and their primitive plane and are now all using jets.... silly americans. (Warcraft)
...........however....... the American government in 1988 Began testing on a Stealth bomber......ohnoes the americans made a comeback! (Warhammer online)
and how about the 2 waring elven nations? One is Destructive and obsessive and the other is arrogant and nature loving? Could blood elves and night elves not be like Drucchi and High Elves?
Give blizard credit. They made the warcraft empire out of the game plan and design that was copied from Games workshop and warhammer. But lets be honest boys and girls, warcraft and Starcraft are absolute blockbusters.
The Romanian scientist took this idea of flight and said "we can make this better" and came up with jets. Everyone loved jets. Jets are all over the place today and most every country has jer aircraft to this day. We all know the silly americans and the Wright brothers started all this airplane stuff, but we have moved past them and their primitive plane and are now all using jets.... silly americans. (Warcraft)
...........however....... the American government in 1988 Began testing on a Stealth bomber......ohnoes the americans made a comeback! (Warhammer online)
Umm, what part of the Sentence: "Warhammer came before Warcraft" did you not understand?
If any, Blood Elves vs. Night Elves is copied by Warcraft, with GW being the original, once again.
And yes, Blizzard crafted absolute Blockbusters out of GWs Idea, altered to be more mainstream.
The romanian Scientists, being Blizzard, in reality probably thought: "Mmmhm, flying machines are great and all, but we add some nice fluffy seats and pink fur to make it look prettier, so more people use our Aircrafts."
Warhammer is a F-35 Jet, absolutely extreme, absolutely not for everyone. Warcraft is more like an Airbus, big and rather slow, but comfortable. Less extreme, but more for everyone, with the same basic idea behind it.
And with Warhammer Online, Mythic adds stealth to the F-35, and puts some comfortable (but without pink fur) Seats in there so that more people acn enjoy the extremes
That's basically the whole point: Blizzard watered down the Warhammer IP (and W40k later) to a degree that both Factions are "good". In the Original, Warhammer, both Factions are "evil", note the difference?
I've said this once on a different and of course banned account and I'll say it again. Blizzard has fallen asleep, it's advantage is gone and Warhammer Lore will crush Warctaft lore, because it's larger in terms of tiny and huge, and because it's better in terms of decent and great.
Warcraft Lore is big enough to bore you to sleep. I can't see how people can find any similarity between these two games, because everything is different, both got humans, Oh Noes, why don't we just put every game that has humans together and say that they copied from eachother? Do the same with every game which has elves, dwarves, undeads, anything. Doesn't work. Ya gotta look into the gameplay, and system, they both have a system which requires co-op between the players, and great single-player aspects.
Harmony is the key! Why do we have to look into the past to find out something negative? Why not just look into the future, and see how it ends? Warhammer will probably have many fans from previous games that will subscirbe, just as world of warcraft and players from WC3.
basically, blizz ran out of ideas, did a little ctrl + C and ctrl + V on some of the warhammer lore / art, which has been around for DECADES before WC was even an afterthought. There, thats where it starts, and ends. It's skin deep. They may look the same, WoW came out 1st, who cares, warhammer has been here for ages. If anything, WoW copied warhammer. If ppl would actually read at max 3 articles on WAR they'd realize that its nothing like WoW THANK GOD. WoW - PvE WAR - PvP. Its much more thought out and much more brutal than WoW. Iunno where im goin after that. Feel free to add to this, flame me, ignore me, touch me inappropriately, I enjoy them all. Sticky plz. /rant off
Correct me if I am wrong, but is it not true that, world of warcraft's big story was that it didn't do anything new, but it expanded upon everything old, made it a little but better? How can you clone something, that is basically like every other game on the market with a few advancements? Yes it is very popular, that doesnt warrant to call every game a WoW clone, I was watching a video of some pirates game movie, and some guy was yelling 'WoW clone, stop stealing Warcraft lore plz' , im not saying he isn't just an idiot who is completely warped out of reality, but he still said it.
Also to the OP, posting this was basically proving the theory of "if you build it, trolls will come"
Though we have heard of stupid haste in war, cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays. -Sun Tzu, the Art of War
Warcraft Lore is big enough to bore you to sleep. I can't see how people can find any similarity between these two games, because everything is different, both got humans, Oh Noes, why don't we just put every game that has humans together and say that they copied from eachother?
Let's seeeee.... Warcraft Orcs look exactly like Warhammer Orcs (and I'm talking about the Artwork and Miniatures which existed before Warcraft 1), WC Dwarves look exactly like WH Dwarfs, Humans...well are Humans, but they are on the exact same level of technology as the Empire, with Steamtanks and Gunpowder Weapons, but also Bows and Crossbows.
Yes, over time, Warcraft changed it's lore so much that similarities aren't obvious anymore, but the Graphical Style of Warcraft still shows clearly where it came from.
Comments
QFT
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand
Yes but come on those similarities are a little to close for comfort in many, many areas with both IP's. Especially when you consider the past history between GW and Blizzard.
Then again let's look at Starcraft....
SC Terran's = 40K Space Marines/Imperium of Man
SC Protoss = Eldars/Tau
SC Zerg = Tyranids
Blizzard has a nice pattern going on here with mirroring themes from GW. It's not as indistinct as you are making it sound. Of course I am not suggesting that all those ideas are original to GW but come on WoW and SC bare more then a passing resemblance to both WAR and WAR 40k.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
QFT
And with "Dawn of War" was Games Workshop very smart. They knew that Starcraft have used there popular races.
So with Dwan of War it was
Space Marines (Starcraft ripped off Terran)
Eldar (Starcraft ripped off Protoss)
Ork (Dunno, they are in every game anyway),
Chaos (none, thanks god for that).
Lets say that Games work used, Space Marine, Eldar and Tyranids (Starcraft counter part aka Zerg) then we have something very similar to Starcraft. So thanks god for that. I remember back then when there issue with Dawn of War = Starcraft 0.5 and so on.....sigh
In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war.
There's two reasons for that.
The first is that many of the things mentioned are archetypical fantasy elements that have been in everything since Tolkien/D&D. And yes, this holds true for 40k vs Starcraft too. And actually, I can make a tantastic argument that if anything, Starcraft is a direct copy of Robert Heinlein's novel Starship troopers even more than it is 40K
The other is the sheer fact that Blizzard essentially DID sort of steal the idea for Warcraft. Many years ago Blizz and GW collaborated on a Warhammer RTS. The two companies never agreed on things and the project was a flop. However Blizzard, it is said, revamped the graphics, altered the storyline a bit, and voila! Warcraft.
But again, They both steal from Tolkien. So let's start making LoTRO comparisons now, to
Yup and it could even get worse.
Games workshop plan to make a Warhammer 40K mmorpg and if Blizzard really want to make a Starcraft mmorpg then we have similarties again in year 2010. Help....
Character/Race wise yes...Story wise and mood wise in regards to WAR not really as much. I never read about whole villages being burnt to the ground and everyone killed off by the forces Gondor because someone was born with a extra toe.
The Empire in WAR is a wee bit xenophobic and anyone born with even a minor birth defect is pretty much viewed with deep suspicion if not killed outright at birth or later on in life by over zealous Witch Hunters.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
It takes place in the future, where the brave Marines of the Mobile Infantry face off on several planets against a horde of insectlike alines (the Bugs) who seek to destroy humanity.
Along the way they tangle with and at some points ally with the Skinnies, a race of tall, slender, technologically advanced aliens who are as opposed to the Bugs as the Marines are.
Did I mention these Marines wear suits of power armor, and the book was written in the 70s?
Firstly, I respond the same way I always respond to this discussion, and one of the posters on the first page said it too:
Blizz took their orignal character models from Warhammer, especially orcs. Therefor, while both have changed and evolved since then, it's logical that they would appear similar.
Secondly, Regarding the dwarf comparison pics:
Look at any decent looking dwarf in games. They all look like that. :P If they didn't, they'd just be large gnomes. And no one wants that.
--------------------------------
-Been there, done that: Xsyon, WoW, EVE, Maplestory, City of Heroes, Guild Wars, Warhammer Online, FF11, Rift
-Currently playing: Not MMOs
-Wants to check out: SWTOR, Dark Millennium
Character/Race wise yes...Story wise and mood wise in regards to WAR not really as much. I never read about whole villages being burnt to the ground and everyone killed off by the forces Gondor because someone was born with a extra toe.
The Empire in WAR is a wee bit xenophobic and anyone born with even a minor birth defect is pretty much viewed with deep suspicion if not killed outright at birth or later on in life by over zealous Witch Hunters.
See that's where they vary in my opinion. the Empire and the Human nations of the Alliance in WOW always seemed very different to me. Dwarves and Elves are pretty much the same in both series but..hey...let's face it...they're both VERY much spawned from Tolkine. Elves noble and magical, dwarves mountain-dwellers with a love of mining. And Orcs...well de Orcs is orcs, all der world ova!
lol ownt
Playing: Everthing
Played: DAoC,AC2,EvE,SWG,WAR,MXO,CoX,EQ2,L2,LOTRO,SB,UO,WoW.
I have played every MMO that has ever come out.
Remember this.
Games Workshop, who designed the World of Warhammer back in 1983, took many ideas and impression from the work of Tolkien, as well as other European influence. The game Warhammer, while it has a dark under tone, has always had a little sense of humor. The art from the 80s was cartoonish, yet dark.
Mythic, in keeping with the basic art concept establish by Games Workshop, began to use their model and art that is nearly 25 years old to make the model for the MMOG. While the color texture may appear similar to WoW, the model design of the Dwarf and Orc is within the traditional style of Games Workshop's creation that has been around since 1983. The only similarity of the 2 games is truly that it shares the same level of color texture. The only game Mythic is copying is the work that has been in place by the artist that had worked for Games Workshop.
It is said that Blizzard tried to license Warhammer from Games Workshop back during the development of the original Warcraft. For whatever reason, the deal fell through. Instead of scratching the project, Blizzard made some modifications to the graphics and art, created their own backstory, and called it Warcraft, their own new IP. Hence, the two look extremely similar because one was actually based off of the other.
Playing: Everthing
Played: DAoC,AC2,EvE,SWG,WAR,MXO,CoX,EQ2,L2,LOTRO,SB,UO,WoW.
I have played every MMO that has ever come out.
Character/Race wise yes...Story wise and mood wise in regards to WAR not really as much. I never read about whole villages being burnt to the ground and everyone killed off by the forces Gondor because someone was born with a extra toe.
The Empire in WAR is a wee bit xenophobic and anyone born with even a minor birth defect is pretty much viewed with deep suspicion if not killed outright at birth or later on in life by over zealous Witch Hunters.
See that's where they vary in my opinion. the Empire and the Human nations of the Alliance in WOW always seemed very different to me. Dwarves and Elves are pretty much the same in both series but..hey...let's face it...they're both VERY much spawned from Tolkine. Elves noble and magical, dwarves mountain-dwellers with a love of mining. And Orcs...well de Orcs is orcs, all der world ova!
I must have missed it in the book where they describe Orks (with a K) as 6 foot tall GREEN skinned fungus creatures from space. They breed by spores too... I think that was in the hobbit... wait no... return of the king.The chaos gods with their beastmen and warriors of living armor. Yes that was in the two towers... pretty sure.
*smacks head* I totally forgot about the Skaven... Didn't Frodo have one chasing him... no... that was something else... I think the skaven were pets of the dwarves... yeah Gimli mentions his pet Skaven ratty when they are traveling...
So glad you cleared that up... oh wait... forgot GW ripping off starship troopers.
Space orks, Eldar lived in ships the size of worlds, chaos, stunties in space... and much much more... Oh space marines being pretty much devout in their unique orders...
Yup that sums it up nicely... GW did nothing original... course you can provide the sources where they pulled Chaos, Skaven, Green alien orks, and spiritual space marines... right?
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
I also never said Chaos was in LOTR. The Chaos Gods are very similar to a number of D&D pantheons though...and let's not forget HP Lovecraft's Old Ones.
Skaven? Not in LoTR...but Ratlings have been a D&D race/monster for decades. World-sozed ships have been around for ages too..Rama comes to mind, or Larry Niven's Ringworld. As for the Marines? Look up Knight Templars. That was the inspiration for that.
I'll retract (partially) what I said about nothing being original. GW certainly did put an unusual twist on traditional fantasy when they created Warhammer. But and however, most if not all of their races/species/ideas were, if not directly copying, at least strongly influenced by Tolkien and other forms of conventional Western fantasy.
And Tolkien took ideas from old European folk tales and stories. This topic is overplayed and boring, and im sure complaing about it in threads is also. I'm sure the avg gamer that pics up this game, looks on the box and sees 25 years of Warhammer they can figure something out, if not im sure they will check out the trailer for the game when loading it up. Will they know Blizzard ripped off Gamesworkshop? maybe maybe not, they will play and keep playing only if this game is fun, and from the looks of all the info and feedback from all the gamesday people, it sure seems it will be.
*Shrug* Warhammer is Warhammer.
No other Orcs have a magical energy that makes them more intelligent when more and more Orcs pile up for a big Waaagh!.
No other Dwarfs have a giant book of grudges where all grudges are written down until they're resolved.
No other Celts mutate at will and use warp portals.
No other generic good Humans are sick fanatics of all sorts, depending on what they do. Fire, Religion, Weapons, whatever.
Besides: LotR has Dwarves, Warhammer has Dwarfs
I guess you could call 'em "Fat midgets" instead of Dwarves, but that would probably annoy some people ^_^
OK class... lets begin.
1) "Orc" or "Ork" is an Old English word which appears in the epic Beowulf and refers to the undead monsters of Grendel's race (orc-néas "orc-corpses" ). Tolkien translated orc as "demon" or "evil spirit or bogey"; he claimed he used the word because of its "phonetic suitability"
GW orks were made after Beowulf not Tolkien orcs.
2) Tolkien describes Orcs explicitly in one of his Letters: "...they are (or were) squat, broad, flat-nosed, sallow-skinned, with wide mouths and slant eyes; in fact degraded and repulsive versions of the (to Europeans) least lovely Mongol-types."
Tolkien orcs were deep brown or black. GW was the first to put green skin on orks. D&D orcs did copy the Tolkien look.
3) The chaos gods do not reflect any fiction writing except maybe Khorne which resembles a god from the original deities book from D&D. The exception to this is the slight influence taken from the work of Michael Moorcock as to the over all feel of warhammer chaos.
Nurgle, slaanesh, and tzeentch are original concepts by GW.
4) Ratlings were in the first monster manual but had no history or background... simply if was a 1/2 rat 1/2 man creature.
Skaven were fleshed out in concept and design by GW. They are a unique race with no relation other then partial physical description by the original monster manual.
5) Eldar and their craftworld ships were original concepts by GW. The term eldar was pulled from again the Norse language meaning fire. Ironically in later excerpts from Tolkien letters not released until 2000... a subsection of elves were also called Eldar.
While you can make general similarities with other fiction. (a space ship is a space ship) This was original work by GW.
Finally space marines... while there was previous fiction about power armor (again generic is generic) The look and philosophy of the space marines was unique to GW 40K. At best you can say GW took minor inspiration from a hand full of fiction already out... but they definitely made it uniquely their own.
If you can say anything about warhammer is that GW pulled heavily from the norse culture. The Tolkien argument is naive and mostly false. There are similarities yes... but minor inspiration is hardly the same as flagrant duplication which you imply in your posts.
Hope that clears things up.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Nice write up
Click to join an Australian destruction guild.
I did not want to do that... it is too much work... but at some point you have to show where the truth stops and the lies begin. Hopefully I got through to some people.
TY.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
and how about the 2 waring elven nations? One is Destructive and obsessive and the other is arrogant and nature loving?
Could blood elves and night elves not be like Drucchi and High Elves?
Give blizard credit. They made the warcraft empire out of the game plan and design that was copied from Games workshop and warhammer. But lets be honest boys and girls, warcraft and Starcraft are absolute blockbusters.
In the last 1400's Leonardo Da'Vinchi came up with an idea of how to make a machine how to fly and called an ornathopter. (tolken)
The british Sir George Cayley Discovered aero dynamics and opened our eyes to the idea that yes you can and will be able to fly and people will be able to fly, these are the rules on how to. (Dungeons and Dragons giving us the idea about the fantasy world as a game)
Far into the Future, the Americans and the Wright brothers took up the idea and in North Carolina created a glider and created the first airplane and prety much discovering flight. Thus issueing in a whole new era and creating ideas for years to come. (Games workshop inventing warhammer)
The Romanian scientist took this idea of flight and said "we can make this better" and came up with jets. Everyone loved jets. Jets are all over the place today and most every country has jer aircraft to this day. We all know the silly americans and the Wright brothers started all this airplane stuff, but we have moved past them and their primitive plane and are now all using jets.... silly americans. (Warcraft)
...........however....... the American government in 1988 Began testing on a Stealth bomber......ohnoes the americans made a comeback!
(Warhammer online)
Umm, what part of the Sentence: "Warhammer came before Warcraft" did you not understand?
If any, Blood Elves vs. Night Elves is copied by Warcraft, with GW being the original, once again.
And yes, Blizzard crafted absolute Blockbusters out of GWs Idea, altered to be more mainstream.
The romanian Scientists, being Blizzard, in reality probably thought: "Mmmhm, flying machines are great and all, but we add some nice fluffy seats and pink fur to make it look prettier, so more people use our Aircrafts."
Warhammer is a F-35 Jet, absolutely extreme, absolutely not for everyone. Warcraft is more like an Airbus, big and rather slow, but comfortable. Less extreme, but more for everyone, with the same basic idea behind it.
And with Warhammer Online, Mythic adds stealth to the F-35, and puts some comfortable (but without pink fur) Seats in there so that more people acn enjoy the extremes
That's basically the whole point: Blizzard watered down the Warhammer IP (and W40k later) to a degree that both Factions are "good". In the Original, Warhammer, both Factions are "evil", note the difference?
Warhammer is the Turtle that beats the Hare...
I've said this once on a different and of course banned account and I'll say it again. Blizzard has fallen asleep, it's advantage is gone and Warhammer Lore will crush Warctaft lore, because it's larger in terms of tiny and huge, and because it's better in terms of decent and great.
Warcraft Lore is big enough to bore you to sleep. I can't see how people can find any similarity between these two games, because everything is different, both got humans, Oh Noes, why don't we just put every game that has humans together and say that they copied from eachother? Do the same with every game which has elves, dwarves, undeads, anything. Doesn't work. Ya gotta look into the gameplay, and system, they both have a system which requires co-op between the players, and great single-player aspects.
Harmony is the key! Why do we have to look into the past to find out something negative? Why not just look into the future, and see how it ends? Warhammer will probably have many fans from previous games that will subscirbe, just as world of warcraft and players from WC3.
Correct me if I am wrong, but is it not true that, world of warcraft's big story was that it didn't do anything new, but it expanded upon everything old, made it a little but better? How can you clone something, that is basically like every other game on the market with a few advancements? Yes it is very popular, that doesnt warrant to call every game a WoW clone, I was watching a video of some pirates game movie, and some guy was yelling 'WoW clone, stop stealing Warcraft lore plz' , im not saying he isn't just an idiot who is completely warped out of reality, but he still said it.
Also to the OP, posting this was basically proving the theory of "if you build it, trolls will come"
Though we have heard of stupid haste in war, cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
Let's seeeee.... Warcraft Orcs look exactly like Warhammer Orcs (and I'm talking about the Artwork and Miniatures which existed before Warcraft 1), WC Dwarves look exactly like WH Dwarfs, Humans...well are Humans, but they are on the exact same level of technology as the Empire, with Steamtanks and Gunpowder Weapons, but also Bows and Crossbows.
Yes, over time, Warcraft changed it's lore so much that similarities aren't obvious anymore, but the Graphical Style of Warcraft still shows clearly where it came from.