In my opinion all this PvP content that will be added has only been made because they know their PvP system is borked and are scared of losing subs to WAR. WAR from the beggining has been about city sieges, RvR and PvE zones, siege wepons ect, and all the stuff comming up in Wrath of The Lich King just seems to watered down versions of whats comming in WAR.
Hmm.
You haven't played the previous Warcraft games have you? Sure, the whole Warcraft universe is a kind of Warhammer ripoff, but things like destructable buildings have been in Blizzard games for well over a decade.
To say they're making a cheap imitation WAR - which is still pure hype - is being rather silly. WoW players have been wanting things like base building (ala the RTS games) for a long time. This might not be the same as building a base but it's the same as storming your opponents base in WC1,2,3.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
I don't think this is posted yet. I checked through this thread and didn't find it, so forgive me if its already in another thread somewhere. I stopped playing wow sometime ago, but still have my old toons and account. So, anyway, here is a Video.
In my opinion all this PvP content that will be added has only been made because they know their PvP system is borked and are scared of losing subs to WAR. WAR from the beggining has been about city sieges, RvR and PvE zones, siege wepons ect, and all the stuff comming up in Wrath of The Lich King just seems to watered down versions of whats comming in WAR.
Hmm.
You haven't played the previous Warcraft games have you? Sure, the whole Warcraft universe is a kind of Warhammer ripoff, but things like destructable buildings have been in Blizzard games for well over a decade.
To say they're making a cheap imitation WAR - which is still pure hype - is being rather silly. WoW players have been wanting things like base building (ala the RTS games) for a long time. This might not be the same as building a base but it's the same as storming your opponents base in WC1,2,3.
Hmmmm.
I have every single Warcraft game on my shelf so yes i have played them... all of them. For nearly 3 years they haven't bothered their asses with PvP in WoW and by the way WoW bastardised the whole Warcraft franchise(look at the lore screw ups). Sure the Warcraft RTS games had great PvP through Bnet but PvP in WoW has always sucked and been tacked on, just for when peole are bored of raiding. Since Mythic has been detaling their RvR, sieges and release for Q1 08, Blizzard has come up with this expansion that will have a PvP zone, siege weaponry ect ect.
It shows that they are taking concepts from WAR because they don't want to lose their PvP'ers to WAR when it comes out. The expansion will probably come out in Q1 08 aswell as they stated before when TBC was released that there would be annual expansions. It is so obvious just beacuse of the fact they haven't been so enthusiastic about PvP for 3 years and now when a competeitor is looming, they are all over PvP.
WoW PvP was not tacked on, could of been better at release sure, but if you want a tacked on PVP game then go play EQ2, VG, CoX, LoTRO compared to PvP on those games WoW is a god.
And ofc Blizz will ramp up the PvP with WAR out soon. But for all we know WAR could suck giant donkey ballz.
And yes the outcomes from the RvR zone will effects the world.. well northrend anyway, just not sure how yet, but better not be a +5% buff
In my opinion all this PvP content that will be added has only been made because they know their PvP system is borked and are scared of losing subs to WAR. WAR from the beggining has been about city sieges, RvR and PvE zones, siege wepons ect, and all the stuff comming up in Wrath of The Lich King just seems to watered down versions of whats comming in WAR.
Hmm.
You haven't played the previous Warcraft games have you? Sure, the whole Warcraft universe is a kind of Warhammer ripoff, but things like destructable buildings have been in Blizzard games for well over a decade.
To say they're making a cheap imitation WAR - which is still pure hype - is being rather silly. WoW players have been wanting things like base building (ala the RTS games) for a long time. This might not be the same as building a base but it's the same as storming your opponents base in WC1,2,3.
WoW is going to do something daoc has done 5 yrs ago so get over it.
I LOVE how idiotic some people are. It's really just great fun laughing at all these people dissing wow.
Now for the record my wow account has been inactive for months, and i don't plan on playing till this next xpac, so it's not as if i LOVE WOW, this is all just logical, non idiotic observation.
1. WoW will always be WoW. I'm sorry if your expecting WoW to suddenly change the way mmorpgs are played, with entire combat revamps, redesigns to the entire item curve, and a total overhaul to crafting... your going to be disappointed. MMORPGs grow and adapt over time, but they never truely reinvent themselves without completely starting a new game, which eq2 did to eq1. No game i've ever played has ever released a xpac that changed the game to be a totally different game.
2. Level 80... This is a necessary step. Sure raid content now will be obsolete, but this is how mmorpgs work, new content will always be better then old content... always.
First let's assume they would make a xpac without a level cap increase. They plan to add at least outland size content with each xpac. So would they add a entire continent with mobs at 70?
Now your so against making old content obsolete. All quests for solo/group play will be worse then kara gear. All 5 mans will be = to current 5 mans, and worse then kara. So... why do the content? For "fun" i'm sorry but questing for 100 hours for crap gear, no upgrades, and no advancement, is just worthless, and nobody would do it expect for people who are already desperately bored.
If they were to add another 10 man, it would be a step up from kara, finishing off T4 sets, and a little T5, all of which is already in the game, for the few people who do kara but never step into gruul ssc or mag.... then this would be a advantage for them, but again it wouldn't be overly exciting since the gear is barely a upgrade.
Now for 25 mans.... You know less then 10-20% of wow players will EVER EVER EVER EVER finish BT regardless of how long it is in the system? Go look up boss trackers for hyjal which is a stepping stone to bt. about 9000-10000 people have killed the final boss. and the xpacs been out for what? 6-7 months? give it another year and we have what 30,000-40,000 people who have killed it? Out of 9 million?
If they were to add more raids to the 70 end game without making the current ones obsolete, they either have to be A. sidegrades to existing gear at the same difficulty, would this make more people raid? Would people really spend the time learning this new instance for the same gear? Most of the content would be POST BT, which means even FEWER people would see it, you'll see quite a few people starting gruul/ssc etc. but how many people will experience the 5 raids post BT?
At the same time, the people who do get access to this content, would advance SO much further compared to non raiders and new players, there would be NO comparison. If your tank ever stopped playing or was unable to play, you'd have to recruit a new tank, gear him up through all the tiers, and then start your high end progression all over again. The gap would just be too large. Same for pvp, arena tier gear will keep growing and growing, but at the same time new players will be wanting to enter the arena, and the gap would be even more noticeable then. You could argue for gear matching. But the high end players will be fighting the same people over and over and over and over and over. while the low end will be vs the masses. And at the same time, this negates the purpose of gearing up. If you get stronger gear and then fight people who have the same level gear, why even bother getting new gear, you won't be stronger in comparison. Like a level 10 fighting a 10 mob, and a 11 fighting a 11 mob, the 11 is stronger against the 10, but it's just as strong against the 11, as the 10 is against the 10.
That's why they can't NOT obsolete current instances and arena tiers. Because it's got to be accessable and worthwhile for the majority of players.
That is the way wow works.
You can argue that they could add "hero levels" and keep your current gear. But the problem with this is. Hero classes would be nothing but each "tree" personified as a stronger form. And the developers have said(and wisely so) that this is against their design because it would require giving up things. And people would hate it. You can say "but you can respec to other hero classes!" That's the same thing as talents, and in the end it just wouldn't be unique enough. And the hero levels would do what? The classes are already balanced around playstyles. Would it give my holy paladin aoe spells and hots? While losing any option of respecing to tank? Or respecing ret to farm? Or having a prot war... who is ALWAYS a prot war, and can't respec to pvp?
Hero levels and classes just simply aren't a option as character advancement.
That's why theres 10 levels, that's why people will gear up 70-80. That's why tier 5-6 people will ride easy/cruise control till 80 raiding where they will start upgrading from a kara+ like instance. That's how it worked for naxx players and thats how it will work again. That way EVERYONE will be able to enjoy new content, that is worth doing, is beneficial, and is not a waste of time the moment it's added to the game.
3. The Death Knight.
This is NOT a ALPHA CLASS. Hero=/=alpha. The death knight will NOT tank better then the other tanks, and it will not dps better then other dpsers. It's a entirely new class, balanced to be the same power as other classes, just a different way to play. And that's what all hero classes will be. You unlock it through a quest(which sounds like you may actually be in direct contact with arthas in a non combat role, they stated arthas will be a part of the entire expansion, and not just a boss you get to and kill the end) and you can create it at level 55-70(undecided atm) That way it starts out feeling epic, and not a level 1 scrub.
And to all the scrubs out there who feel a sense of entitlement "Blizzards adding a hero class? wtf there should be 20 hero classes, all of them completely new and unique with new spells and abilities without any copying! And they better all be balanced RIGHT AWAY otherwise i'll quit playing!" They stated they are working on one hero class at a time, and the first is the death knight. They want to be sure that this is balanced to be viable, while NOT replacing other classes. There WILL be more, when they are ready and able to devote the time to making/balancing it. It's a fully working class, with it's own talents, it's own spells, and own flavor. It takes a lot of time, and if they can they will add more hero classes with the xpac. But i'd rather have 1 fully working, well designed balanced class added a ways away from each other, instead of 10 classes which all are just copies of old ones, and either suck or are overpowered.
You people make me sick, they didn't even HAVE to make a new class. Oh look we are making a new class, and it's THE CLASS THAT HAS BEEN ASKED FOR SINCE BETA. "Ya but we want more!! give us 10 classes this sucks! why are deathknights being added! more more more!" Do you know how dumb you sound?
4. What exactly will we be missing from old content?
Zul'aman, BT, TK, Hyjal, SSC, Mag, Gruul, and the other raid being added prior to the xpac(maybe kara... but i could see it still being used, the gear from it still will be better then 70-73+ gear, while some exp is gained from running). So that's a bunch of raids that the minority of players will complete, get to farm status and do, before the xpac comes out. Is it such a big deal that you won't see some raid dungeons just because YOU sucked hard enough or started playing late enough that you were unable to get to them? Should they just not advance the game so the person who joins 5 years from now gets to play in kara?
All of outlands will still be there to be enjoyed by the players. 60-70 can and still will be done in outland. Thats ALOT of content. then at 70-80 you go to northrend and you experience MORE content. and then you get to see MORE raids which are JUST as unique, and JUST as fun as the current ones.
And really, one of the major complaints is people don't want to raid to get gear. Why do the same people get upset that the raids they hated aren't being required anymore? Talk about hypocrites.
5. But all the time i WORKED for the gear is wasted.
Guess what, if you have to "work" and "suffer" to get your gear and advance so you can work more. Then you need to either commit suicide or get a life. Because WoW is meant to be fun. If your not enjoying it, then guess what, your wasting your time regardless of it there being better gear later.
And guess what, if you like raiding, you like getting gear, and you like doing that stuff... Then your not wasting your time, because your having fun! And guess what? A video game isn't real, NOTHING you do in game matters in real life, bosses don't care if you have a level 70 orc rogue in full tier 6. You won't walk into a bar and people go "omg you see that! It's brutekillerzorz! He downed Illidan and got his epic shield! WoW i want him inside me!" EVENTUALLY you will quit wow, and eventually wow will get shut down. All your achievements won't matter then. Have fun and enjoy the game, and guess what? It doesn't matter if you replace all your gear, and you have to raid new stuff. Just have fun with it.
You can't play a mmorpg and expect to be able to "max" out your gear, and never upgrade it.
Even if any of this is to be believed, A Jedi-style unlockable class would be a rather unwise move. As seen in SWG, the game eventually became Jedi Galaxies, outnumbering all other classes by a large majority. 150 Death Knights in the Stormwind auction house? No thank you.
N one said its jedi style. CoH has two unlockable archetypes that are not more powerful than normal AT's and they even spawn extra types of monsters that do extra damage to only those AT's.
However I suspect the WoW devs may do a jedi style hero class. That is their kinda style.
Khelds are more powerful than other Archtypes. Their just balanaced by the Quantoms that spawn. Something caught my eye about that list of features. Lvl Cap 70 to 80 Content for lvl 65 and up, ooh I am sorry I ment 68. 65 Is what the Everquest 2 Rise of Kunark press release said. Apparantly their copying press releases now aswell, hehe.
No Kheldians are not more powerful than the other AT's. They have the potential for quite a bit of versatility but even in that respect they do not outstrip certain build of the standard ATs.
And when it comes to PvP they are generally thought of as inferior, which is a far far cry from the alpha class jedi of old SWG.
I LOVE how idiotic some people are. It's really just great fun laughing at all these people dissing wow. Now for the record my wow account has been inactive for months, and i don't plan on playing till this next xpac, so it's not as if i LOVE WOW, this is all just logical, non idiotic observation. 1. WoW will always be WoW. I'm sorry if your expecting WoW to suddenly change the way mmorpgs are played, with entire combat revamps, redesigns to the entire item curve, and a total overhaul to crafting... your going to be disappointed. MMORPGs grow and adapt over time, but they never truely reinvent themselves without completely starting a new game, which eq2 did to eq1. No game i've ever played has ever released a xpac that changed the game to be a totally different game. 2. Level 80... This is a necessary step. Sure raid content now will be obsolete, but this is how mmorpgs work, new content will always be better then old content... always. First let's assume they would make a xpac without a level cap increase. They plan to add at least outland size content with each xpac. So would they add a entire continent with mobs at 70? Now your so against making old content obsolete. All quests for solo/group play will be worse then kara gear. All 5 mans will be = to current 5 mans, and worse then kara. So... why do the content? For "fun" i'm sorry but questing for 100 hours for crap gear, no upgrades, and no advancement, is just worthless, and nobody would do it expect for people who are already desperately bored. If they were to add another 10 man, it would be a step up from kara, finishing off T4 sets, and a little T5, all of which is already in the game, for the few people who do kara but never step into gruul ssc or mag.... then this would be a advantage for them, but again it wouldn't be overly exciting since the gear is barely a upgrade. Now for 25 mans.... You know less then 10-20% of wow players will EVER EVER EVER EVER finish BT regardless of how long it is in the system? Go look up boss trackers for hyjal which is a stepping stone to bt. about 9000-10000 people have killed the final boss. and the xpacs been out for what? 6-7 months? give it another year and we have what 30,000-40,000 people who have killed it? Out of 9 million? If they were to add more raids to the 70 end game without making the current ones obsolete, they either have to be A. sidegrades to existing gear at the same difficulty, would this make more people raid? Would people really spend the time learning this new instance for the same gear? Most of the content would be POST BT, which means even FEWER people would see it, you'll see quite a few people starting gruul/ssc etc. but how many people will experience the 5 raids post BT? At the same time, the people who do get access to this content, would advance SO much further compared to non raiders and new players, there would be NO comparison. If your tank ever stopped playing or was unable to play, you'd have to recruit a new tank, gear him up through all the tiers, and then start your high end progression all over again. The gap would just be too large. Same for pvp, arena tier gear will keep growing and growing, but at the same time new players will be wanting to enter the arena, and the gap would be even more noticeable then. You could argue for gear matching. But the high end players will be fighting the same people over and over and over and over and over. while the low end will be vs the masses. And at the same time, this negates the purpose of gearing up. If you get stronger gear and then fight people who have the same level gear, why even bother getting new gear, you won't be stronger in comparison. Like a level 10 fighting a 10 mob, and a 11 fighting a 11 mob, the 11 is stronger against the 10, but it's just as strong against the 11, as the 10 is against the 10. That's why they can't NOT obsolete current instances and arena tiers. Because it's got to be accessable and worthwhile for the majority of players. That is the way wow works. You can argue that they could add "hero levels" and keep your current gear. But the problem with this is. Hero classes would be nothing but each "tree" personified as a stronger form. And the developers have said(and wisely so) that this is against their design because it would require giving up things. And people would hate it. You can say "but you can respec to other hero classes!" That's the same thing as talents, and in the end it just wouldn't be unique enough. And the hero levels would do what? The classes are already balanced around playstyles. Would it give my holy paladin aoe spells and hots? While losing any option of respecing to tank? Or respecing ret to farm? Or having a prot war... who is ALWAYS a prot war, and can't respec to pvp? Hero levels and classes just simply aren't a option as character advancement. That's why theres 10 levels, that's why people will gear up 70-80. That's why tier 5-6 people will ride easy/cruise control till 80 raiding where they will start upgrading from a kara+ like instance. That's how it worked for naxx players and thats how it will work again. That way EVERYONE will be able to enjoy new content, that is worth doing, is beneficial, and is not a waste of time the moment it's added to the game. 3. The Death Knight. This is NOT a ALPHA CLASS. Hero=/=alpha. The death knight will NOT tank better then the other tanks, and it will not dps better then other dpsers. It's a entirely new class, balanced to be the same power as other classes, just a different way to play. And that's what all hero classes will be. You unlock it through a quest(which sounds like you may actually be in direct contact with arthas in a non combat role, they stated arthas will be a part of the entire expansion, and not just a boss you get to and kill the end) and you can create it at level 55-70(undecided atm) That way it starts out feeling epic, and not a level 1 scrub. And to all the scrubs out there who feel a sense of entitlement "Blizzards adding a hero class? wtf there should be 20 hero classes, all of them completely new and unique with new spells and abilities without any copying! And they better all be balanced RIGHT AWAY otherwise i'll quit playing!" They stated they are working on one hero class at a time, and the first is the death knight. They want to be sure that this is balanced to be viable, while NOT replacing other classes. There WILL be more, when they are ready and able to devote the time to making/balancing it. It's a fully working class, with it's own talents, it's own spells, and own flavor. It takes a lot of time, and if they can they will add more hero classes with the xpac. But i'd rather have 1 fully working, well designed balanced class added a ways away from each other, instead of 10 classes which all are just copies of old ones, and either suck or are overpowered. You people make me sick, they didn't even HAVE to make a new class. Oh look we are making a new class, and it's THE CLASS THAT HAS BEEN ASKED FOR SINCE BETA. "Ya but we want more!! give us 10 classes this sucks! why are deathknights being added! more more more!" Do you know how dumb you sound? 4. What exactly will we be missing from old content? Zul'aman, BT, TK, Hyjal, SSC, Mag, Gruul, and the other raid being added prior to the xpac(maybe kara... but i could see it still being used, the gear from it still will be better then 70-73+ gear, while some exp is gained from running). So that's a bunch of raids that the minority of players will complete, get to farm status and do, before the xpac comes out. Is it such a big deal that you won't see some raid dungeons just because YOU sucked hard enough or started playing late enough that you were unable to get to them? Should they just not advance the game so the person who joins 5 years from now gets to play in kara? All of outlands will still be there to be enjoyed by the players. 60-70 can and still will be done in outland. Thats ALOT of content. then at 70-80 you go to northrend and you experience MORE content. and then you get to see MORE raids which are JUST as unique, and JUST as fun as the current ones. And really, one of the major complaints is people don't want to raid to get gear. Why do the same people get upset that the raids they hated aren't being required anymore? Talk about hypocrites. 5. But all the time i WORKED for the gear is wasted. Guess what, if you have to "work" and "suffer" to get your gear and advance so you can work more. Then you need to either commit suicide or get a life. Because WoW is meant to be fun. If your not enjoying it, then guess what, your wasting your time regardless of it there being better gear later. And guess what, if you like raiding, you like getting gear, and you like doing that stuff... Then your not wasting your time, because your having fun! And guess what? A video game isn't real, NOTHING you do in game matters in real life, bosses don't care if you have a level 70 orc rogue in full tier 6. You won't walk into a bar and people go "omg you see that! It's brutekillerzorz! He downed Illidan and got his epic shield! WoW i want him inside me!" EVENTUALLY you will quit wow, and eventually wow will get shut down. All your achievements won't matter then. Have fun and enjoy the game, and guess what? It doesn't matter if you replace all your gear, and you have to raid new stuff. Just have fun with it. You can't play a mmorpg and expect to be able to "max" out your gear, and never upgrade it.
Dear GOD! NEXT TIME MAKE IT NICE AND SIMPLE NOT A 2 PAGE ESSAY!
---------------------------- Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils ... - Louis Hector Berlioz
Dang! It's happening again. People will flock to the lines and wait for 2 days just to get a copy of this new expansion.
Maybe...but when WotLK releases there will be a handful of new mmos that people will have been playing for months. I know more than a few people are bored of BC already so tack on another 9+ months and the potential for losing subs increases.
Dont be surprise that not many players in WoW know about AoC or WAR. From what ive ask from my guildies ( about 100 plus players), a few know about other games, and much lesser is interested about them than WoW.
So i dont think really that many will flock to both this games once they are release.....
Each proffesion could be responcible for making things that can be put in the house, or used to enhance the house in some way.
Guild cities.
Each proffesion could be required to provide things to an NPC to contribute to the building of a guild city.
It would be limited in the number of houses that could be built.
It's construction could be played out as quests that guild members do.
In PvP they could attackable. Guilds from opposing factions could declare war on one in another faction, allowing them to invade guild cities at times determined by Blizzard. They could earn rep, and items for thier houses and cities in the form of trophies.
Seige weapons could be used to attack guild cities.
Guilds could contribute resources to build things like walls, and towers. Hire guards to defend the city when not enough guild members are on to do so.
Maybe they could become cross server battle grounds; matched by size.
Add other skill trees that would allow characters to diversify more.
Alternative armor sets within the tears. Have some of the items crafted to complete an entire set.
More mid level armor sets.
Reduce the number of people required to do things like MC, BWL, ZG, AQ (both), and adjust the difficutly accordingly Create some quest objectives so that players can get XP through them (perhaps repeatable quests), and increase the number of item drops so you can obtain the sets faster. (Make the gear partially drop, and partially quest turn ins like AQ and ZG). Or, put in new high end gear, or gear that scales to the player levels. MAKE THOSE INSTANCES VIABLE AGAIN. Not everyone got to do them, and new player will likely never.
Competetive instances.
BG type dungeons were collecting loot is the goal. It's times and a group from each faction, or even each group regardless of the faction, competes in a PvP race through the dungeon to gather loot. Along with other players you have to contend with mob spawns. The loot could be items that you turn into an NPC after the time is up, and players earn rep depending upon the number of items that get turned in. Each time the loot is picked up by a player in a group, every player gets a token for that loot to turn in. I 15 minute race through a dungeon with 1 or 2 other groups would be fun. They can be set up for 5, 10, 15, even 40 man groups. Some could be guild based with reward that benefit entire guilds. They could even be tied to guild cities.
Access is only available if you have a guild city.
Guild wars could be done in phases, with guilds that declare war on each other having to compete in dungeons (they could be how you gain access to the other cities), at the end of that phase the winner is able to invade the other guild city, or prevent thier city from being invaded. Objectives in the dungeon could be tied to defending or gaining access to other cities, like defending the doorway till the time runs out. These could be run over the course of an hour or more, with the ability of guild leaders to call NPC reinforcements.
XP or Item drops from killing other players outside of a BG. When there is no reward for PvP then it's just ganking to gank. Currently there is no viable reward, or reason to PvP outside of BG. The PvP objectives in the world aren't enough of a reason.
Controllable points that do more then give a buff that I can live without.
The buffs aren't worthwhile enough to actually want to get them. The only reason to fight over a point is because there are likely people there to fight with, and most of the time there isn't. The points need more impact and purpose. Access to items or mats, maybe a small group dungeon with quests (repeatable?) that can be done for rep, or items. Items could be consumable or temporary, but whorthwhile to get. A temp trinket that would boost damage, or healing, or agro, just about anything, that would be worthwhile in PvP, raiding, or just PvE in general.
More mini games. Things to do for fun.
Expand on the fair.
Competetive dungeons could be tied to it. You can earn tokens to get little prizes. Things like costumes or toys to play with.
Some kind of instanced zone with naval combat. Players controll a boat and fight other player boats for reward. Players can build thier own boat and level it up, earning new parts for it like weapons, sails, or things to enhance the look of it. There could be islands that can be faught over. It could be a race to a competetive dungeon by groups. Multiple groups enter and the first two or three to get the most naval kills go to the island and compete in a dungeon against each other.
I know, it's like whoa! No way they could do all that, but you know what? I think they can. It's just a matter of devoting the resources into developing the code to do it. Everything is instanced based and if they can do something like alter the engine to allow flight in TBC then I honestly can't see why they couldn't do more things.
Basically, increasing levels, and adding more dungeons and classes isn't enough. Blizz needs to start using some of the money they're making to develope NEW content for us to play with.
The PvE is fun, raiding is fun, BG's is fun, but after awhile it grows stagnant. You level to crawl the same dungeon over and over and over. Or you PvP the same couple BG's over and over and over, and to achieve the same end that you did achieved before. To get gear. I want to be able to spend my time collecting LOOT, not gear. I want a variety of ways to do this, even if it's all tied to combat. The combat is fun, but there just isn't enough ways to enjoy it.
I don't think that releasing xpacs that provide the same content in a new skin that we've had for nearly 3 years is fair. After this much time they devs at Blizzard should know what they are doing, and creating the content should be a piece of cake by now. I'd like to see them step it up and start creating new, interesting, gameplay features.
Casual players are just grinding levels at this point, and hardcore players only get to grind the same few instances over and over.
No more new levels and dungeons. I want new ways to play through the added levels and dungeons. Levels and dungeons are expected in a paid expansion. How about something else?
Here's to hoping.
(Lot's of gramatical and spelling errors and I'm to lazy to fix them all.)
Ya know, I've been keeping an eye on Age of Conan, which is supposedly going to come out in less than 3 months, but it's seeming that almost a majority by now are doubting that AOC will be ready in 3 months, and if they do force it out it's going to be sloppy like vanguard was.
I'll still try it, but there's a reason I decided to just roll a new WoW toon; actually a few. 1 - a lot of people including friends of mine are still playing it and more people are buying it daily (a friend working at gamestop vouches for this that WoW is th most bought game in the store still), 2 - The new upcoming expansion means it's pretty much going to be a fresh start for everyone when that comes out, and I'll be 70 well before that, and finally 3 - AOC is going to have a fixed interface that can't be modded. I thought about that for a bit and realized how much I'm going to miss all my WoW mods and their convenience. I really hate when MMO devs don't let people mod their UI's.
And ofcourse as I said, AOC isn't going to come out in October. I'd be really surprised if it even comes out before Christmas. More than likely that game is going to get pushed back and their going to try to launch it before WAR. If they launch AOC after WAR, then AOC is screwed.
a lot of gw players say that blizzard copied arena net with the whole north theme well theyre wrong because by the time anyone knew that eye of the north existed wrath of the lich king would have been half way finished you cant just make a mmorpg expansion in a matter of months and by the way the whole aspect of the lich king in netherend and and the frozen throne has been in the warcraft story line for much longer than eye of the north dont get me wrong guild look awesome but im tired of people saying that one game is better than the other they both have diferent aspects for example gw has better graphics where wow has a wider range of character customization options which one is better isnt a matter of fact its a matter of opinion
Comments
Hmm.
You haven't played the previous Warcraft games have you? Sure, the whole Warcraft universe is a kind of Warhammer ripoff, but things like destructable buildings have been in Blizzard games for well over a decade.
To say they're making a cheap imitation WAR - which is still pure hype - is being rather silly. WoW players have been wanting things like base building (ala the RTS games) for a long time. This might not be the same as building a base but it's the same as storming your opponents base in WC1,2,3.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Have fun raiding, and raiding, and raiding, and raiding.....
I don't think this is posted yet. I checked through this thread and didn't find it, so forgive me if its already in another thread somewhere. I stopped playing wow sometime ago, but still have my old toons and account. So, anyway, here is a Video.
______________
Mark E. Cooper
AKA Tohrment
Proud member of Damned Souls since 2007.
http://www.damnedsouls.eu
Hmm.
You haven't played the previous Warcraft games have you? Sure, the whole Warcraft universe is a kind of Warhammer ripoff, but things like destructable buildings have been in Blizzard games for well over a decade.
To say they're making a cheap imitation WAR - which is still pure hype - is being rather silly. WoW players have been wanting things like base building (ala the RTS games) for a long time. This might not be the same as building a base but it's the same as storming your opponents base in WC1,2,3.
Hmmmm.
I have every single Warcraft game on my shelf so yes i have played them... all of them. For nearly 3 years they haven't bothered their asses with PvP in WoW and by the way WoW bastardised the whole Warcraft franchise(look at the lore screw ups). Sure the Warcraft RTS games had great PvP through Bnet but PvP in WoW has always sucked and been tacked on, just for when peole are bored of raiding. Since Mythic has been detaling their RvR, sieges and release for Q1 08, Blizzard has come up with this expansion that will have a PvP zone, siege weaponry ect ect.
It shows that they are taking concepts from WAR because they don't want to lose their PvP'ers to WAR when it comes out. The expansion will probably come out in Q1 08 aswell as they stated before when TBC was released that there would be annual expansions. It is so obvious just beacuse of the fact they haven't been so enthusiastic about PvP for 3 years and now when a competeitor is looming, they are all over PvP.
WoW PvP was not tacked on, could of been better at release sure, but if you want a tacked on PVP game then go play EQ2, VG, CoX, LoTRO compared to PvP on those games WoW is a god.
And ofc Blizz will ramp up the PvP with WAR out soon.
But for all we know WAR could suck giant donkey ballz. 
And yes the outcomes from the RvR zone will effects the world.. well northrend anyway, just not sure how yet, but better not be a +5% buff
Hmm.
You haven't played the previous Warcraft games have you? Sure, the whole Warcraft universe is a kind of Warhammer ripoff, but things like destructable buildings have been in Blizzard games for well over a decade.
To say they're making a cheap imitation WAR - which is still pure hype - is being rather silly. WoW players have been wanting things like base building (ala the RTS games) for a long time. This might not be the same as building a base but it's the same as storming your opponents base in WC1,2,3.
WoW is going to do something daoc has done 5 yrs ago so get over it.
LOL ! Get ready to replace your Tier 5 with level 80 greens. Nice job Blizzard ....again .../sarcasm off.
Good news for the gamers. Blizzard looks set to hold onto their market share of online gaming subscriptions.
I LOVE how idiotic some people are. It's really just great fun laughing at all these people dissing wow.
Now for the record my wow account has been inactive for months, and i don't plan on playing till this next xpac, so it's not as if i LOVE WOW, this is all just logical, non idiotic observation.
1. WoW will always be WoW. I'm sorry if your expecting WoW to suddenly change the way mmorpgs are played, with entire combat revamps, redesigns to the entire item curve, and a total overhaul to crafting... your going to be disappointed. MMORPGs grow and adapt over time, but they never truely reinvent themselves without completely starting a new game, which eq2 did to eq1. No game i've ever played has ever released a xpac that changed the game to be a totally different game.
2. Level 80... This is a necessary step. Sure raid content now will be obsolete, but this is how mmorpgs work, new content will always be better then old content... always.
First let's assume they would make a xpac without a level cap increase. They plan to add at least outland size content with each xpac. So would they add a entire continent with mobs at 70?
Now your so against making old content obsolete. All quests for solo/group play will be worse then kara gear. All 5 mans will be = to current 5 mans, and worse then kara. So... why do the content? For "fun" i'm sorry but questing for 100 hours for crap gear, no upgrades, and no advancement, is just worthless, and nobody would do it expect for people who are already desperately bored.
If they were to add another 10 man, it would be a step up from kara, finishing off T4 sets, and a little T5, all of which is already in the game, for the few people who do kara but never step into gruul ssc or mag.... then this would be a advantage for them, but again it wouldn't be overly exciting since the gear is barely a upgrade.
Now for 25 mans.... You know less then 10-20% of wow players will EVER EVER EVER EVER finish BT regardless of how long it is in the system? Go look up boss trackers for hyjal which is a stepping stone to bt. about 9000-10000 people have killed the final boss. and the xpacs been out for what? 6-7 months? give it another year and we have what 30,000-40,000 people who have killed it? Out of 9 million?
If they were to add more raids to the 70 end game without making the current ones obsolete, they either have to be A. sidegrades to existing gear at the same difficulty, would this make more people raid? Would people really spend the time learning this new instance for the same gear? Most of the content would be POST BT, which means even FEWER people would see it, you'll see quite a few people starting gruul/ssc etc. but how many people will experience the 5 raids post BT?
At the same time, the people who do get access to this content, would advance SO much further compared to non raiders and new players, there would be NO comparison. If your tank ever stopped playing or was unable to play, you'd have to recruit a new tank, gear him up through all the tiers, and then start your high end progression all over again. The gap would just be too large. Same for pvp, arena tier gear will keep growing and growing, but at the same time new players will be wanting to enter the arena, and the gap would be even more noticeable then. You could argue for gear matching. But the high end players will be fighting the same people over and over and over and over and over. while the low end will be vs the masses. And at the same time, this negates the purpose of gearing up. If you get stronger gear and then fight people who have the same level gear, why even bother getting new gear, you won't be stronger in comparison. Like a level 10 fighting a 10 mob, and a 11 fighting a 11 mob, the 11 is stronger against the 10, but it's just as strong against the 11, as the 10 is against the 10.
That's why they can't NOT obsolete current instances and arena tiers. Because it's got to be accessable and worthwhile for the majority of players.
That is the way wow works.
You can argue that they could add "hero levels" and keep your current gear. But the problem with this is. Hero classes would be nothing but each "tree" personified as a stronger form. And the developers have said(and wisely so) that this is against their design because it would require giving up things. And people would hate it. You can say "but you can respec to other hero classes!" That's the same thing as talents, and in the end it just wouldn't be unique enough. And the hero levels would do what? The classes are already balanced around playstyles. Would it give my holy paladin aoe spells and hots? While losing any option of respecing to tank? Or respecing ret to farm? Or having a prot war... who is ALWAYS a prot war, and can't respec to pvp?
Hero levels and classes just simply aren't a option as character advancement.
That's why theres 10 levels, that's why people will gear up 70-80. That's why tier 5-6 people will ride easy/cruise control till 80 raiding where they will start upgrading from a kara+ like instance. That's how it worked for naxx players and thats how it will work again. That way EVERYONE will be able to enjoy new content, that is worth doing, is beneficial, and is not a waste of time the moment it's added to the game.
3. The Death Knight.
This is NOT a ALPHA CLASS. Hero=/=alpha. The death knight will NOT tank better then the other tanks, and it will not dps better then other dpsers. It's a entirely new class, balanced to be the same power as other classes, just a different way to play. And that's what all hero classes will be. You unlock it through a quest(which sounds like you may actually be in direct contact with arthas in a non combat role, they stated arthas will be a part of the entire expansion, and not just a boss you get to and kill the end) and you can create it at level 55-70(undecided atm) That way it starts out feeling epic, and not a level 1 scrub.
And to all the scrubs out there who feel a sense of entitlement "Blizzards adding a hero class? wtf there should be 20 hero classes, all of them completely new and unique with new spells and abilities without any copying! And they better all be balanced RIGHT AWAY otherwise i'll quit playing!" They stated they are working on one hero class at a time, and the first is the death knight. They want to be sure that this is balanced to be viable, while NOT replacing other classes. There WILL be more, when they are ready and able to devote the time to making/balancing it. It's a fully working class, with it's own talents, it's own spells, and own flavor. It takes a lot of time, and if they can they will add more hero classes with the xpac. But i'd rather have 1 fully working, well designed balanced class added a ways away from each other, instead of 10 classes which all are just copies of old ones, and either suck or are overpowered.
You people make me sick, they didn't even HAVE to make a new class. Oh look we are making a new class, and it's THE CLASS THAT HAS BEEN ASKED FOR SINCE BETA. "Ya but we want more!! give us 10 classes this sucks! why are deathknights being added! more more more!" Do you know how dumb you sound?
4. What exactly will we be missing from old content?
Zul'aman, BT, TK, Hyjal, SSC, Mag, Gruul, and the other raid being added prior to the xpac(maybe kara... but i could see it still being used, the gear from it still will be better then 70-73+ gear, while some exp is gained from running). So that's a bunch of raids that the minority of players will complete, get to farm status and do, before the xpac comes out. Is it such a big deal that you won't see some raid dungeons just because YOU sucked hard enough or started playing late enough that you were unable to get to them? Should they just not advance the game so the person who joins 5 years from now gets to play in kara?
All of outlands will still be there to be enjoyed by the players. 60-70 can and still will be done in outland. Thats ALOT of content. then at 70-80 you go to northrend and you experience MORE content. and then you get to see MORE raids which are JUST as unique, and JUST as fun as the current ones.
And really, one of the major complaints is people don't want to raid to get gear. Why do the same people get upset that the raids they hated aren't being required anymore? Talk about hypocrites.
5. But all the time i WORKED for the gear is wasted.
Guess what, if you have to "work" and "suffer" to get your gear and advance so you can work more. Then you need to either commit suicide or get a life. Because WoW is meant to be fun. If your not enjoying it, then guess what, your wasting your time regardless of it there being better gear later.
And guess what, if you like raiding, you like getting gear, and you like doing that stuff... Then your not wasting your time, because your having fun! And guess what? A video game isn't real, NOTHING you do in game matters in real life, bosses don't care if you have a level 70 orc rogue in full tier 6. You won't walk into a bar and people go "omg you see that! It's brutekillerzorz! He downed Illidan and got his epic shield! WoW i want him inside me!" EVENTUALLY you will quit wow, and eventually wow will get shut down. All your achievements won't matter then. Have fun and enjoy the game, and guess what? It doesn't matter if you replace all your gear, and you have to raid new stuff. Just have fun with it.
You can't play a mmorpg and expect to be able to "max" out your gear, and never upgrade it.
However I suspect the WoW devs may do a jedi style hero class. That is their kinda style.
Khelds are more powerful than other Archtypes. Their just balanaced by the Quantoms that spawn.
Something caught my eye about that list of features.
Lvl Cap 70 to 80
Content for lvl 65 and up, ooh I am sorry I ment 68. 65 Is what the Everquest 2 Rise of Kunark press release said.
Apparantly their copying press releases now aswell, hehe.
World of Pokecraft: Wrath of the Pikachu is as rich on new content as DDo's free montly updates.
REALITY CHECK
And when it comes to PvP they are generally thought of as inferior, which is a far far cry from the alpha class jedi of old SWG.
Dear GOD! NEXT TIME MAKE IT NICE AND SIMPLE NOT A 2 PAGE ESSAY!
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Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils ... - Louis Hector Berlioz
Dang! It's happening again. People will flock to the lines and wait for 2 days just to get a copy of this new expansion.
Maybe...but when WotLK releases there will be a handful of new mmos that people will have been playing for months. I know more than a few people are bored of BC already so tack on another 9+ months and the potential for losing subs increases.
Dont be surprise that not many players in WoW know about AoC or WAR. From what ive ask from my guildies ( about 100 plus players), a few know about other games, and much lesser is interested about them than WoW.
So i dont think really that many will flock to both this games once they are release.....
RIP Orc Choppa
Proffesions expanded on by:
Housing.
Each proffesion could be responcible for making things that can be put in the house, or used to enhance the house in some way.
Guild cities.
Each proffesion could be required to provide things to an NPC to contribute to the building of a guild city.
It would be limited in the number of houses that could be built.
It's construction could be played out as quests that guild members do.
In PvP they could attackable. Guilds from opposing factions could declare war on one in another faction, allowing them to invade guild cities at times determined by Blizzard. They could earn rep, and items for thier houses and cities in the form of trophies.
Seige weapons could be used to attack guild cities.
Guilds could contribute resources to build things like walls, and towers. Hire guards to defend the city when not enough guild members are on to do so.
Maybe they could become cross server battle grounds; matched by size.
Add other skill trees that would allow characters to diversify more.
Alternative armor sets within the tears. Have some of the items crafted to complete an entire set.
More mid level armor sets.
Reduce the number of people required to do things like MC, BWL, ZG, AQ (both), and adjust the difficutly accordingly Create some quest objectives so that players can get XP through them (perhaps repeatable quests), and increase the number of item drops so you can obtain the sets faster. (Make the gear partially drop, and partially quest turn ins like AQ and ZG). Or, put in new high end gear, or gear that scales to the player levels. MAKE THOSE INSTANCES VIABLE AGAIN. Not everyone got to do them, and new player will likely never.
Competetive instances.
BG type dungeons were collecting loot is the goal. It's times and a group from each faction, or even each group regardless of the faction, competes in a PvP race through the dungeon to gather loot. Along with other players you have to contend with mob spawns. The loot could be items that you turn into an NPC after the time is up, and players earn rep depending upon the number of items that get turned in. Each time the loot is picked up by a player in a group, every player gets a token for that loot to turn in. I 15 minute race through a dungeon with 1 or 2 other groups would be fun. They can be set up for 5, 10, 15, even 40 man groups. Some could be guild based with reward that benefit entire guilds. They could even be tied to guild cities.
Access is only available if you have a guild city.
Guild wars could be done in phases, with guilds that declare war on each other having to compete in dungeons (they could be how you gain access to the other cities), at the end of that phase the winner is able to invade the other guild city, or prevent thier city from being invaded. Objectives in the dungeon could be tied to defending or gaining access to other cities, like defending the doorway till the time runs out. These could be run over the course of an hour or more, with the ability of guild leaders to call NPC reinforcements.
XP or Item drops from killing other players outside of a BG. When there is no reward for PvP then it's just ganking to gank. Currently there is no viable reward, or reason to PvP outside of BG. The PvP objectives in the world aren't enough of a reason.
Controllable points that do more then give a buff that I can live without.
The buffs aren't worthwhile enough to actually want to get them. The only reason to fight over a point is because there are likely people there to fight with, and most of the time there isn't. The points need more impact and purpose. Access to items or mats, maybe a small group dungeon with quests (repeatable?) that can be done for rep, or items. Items could be consumable or temporary, but whorthwhile to get. A temp trinket that would boost damage, or healing, or agro, just about anything, that would be worthwhile in PvP, raiding, or just PvE in general.
More mini games. Things to do for fun.
Expand on the fair.
Competetive dungeons could be tied to it. You can earn tokens to get little prizes. Things like costumes or toys to play with.
Some kind of instanced zone with naval combat. Players controll a boat and fight other player boats for reward. Players can build thier own boat and level it up, earning new parts for it like weapons, sails, or things to enhance the look of it. There could be islands that can be faught over. It could be a race to a competetive dungeon by groups. Multiple groups enter and the first two or three to get the most naval kills go to the island and compete in a dungeon against each other.
I know, it's like whoa! No way they could do all that, but you know what? I think they can. It's just a matter of devoting the resources into developing the code to do it. Everything is instanced based and if they can do something like alter the engine to allow flight in TBC then I honestly can't see why they couldn't do more things.
Basically, increasing levels, and adding more dungeons and classes isn't enough. Blizz needs to start using some of the money they're making to develope NEW content for us to play with.
The PvE is fun, raiding is fun, BG's is fun, but after awhile it grows stagnant. You level to crawl the same dungeon over and over and over. Or you PvP the same couple BG's over and over and over, and to achieve the same end that you did achieved before. To get gear. I want to be able to spend my time collecting LOOT, not gear. I want a variety of ways to do this, even if it's all tied to combat. The combat is fun, but there just isn't enough ways to enjoy it.
I don't think that releasing xpacs that provide the same content in a new skin that we've had for nearly 3 years is fair. After this much time they devs at Blizzard should know what they are doing, and creating the content should be a piece of cake by now. I'd like to see them step it up and start creating new, interesting, gameplay features.
Casual players are just grinding levels at this point, and hardcore players only get to grind the same few instances over and over.
No more new levels and dungeons. I want new ways to play through the added levels and dungeons. Levels and dungeons are expected in a paid expansion. How about something else?
Here's to hoping.
(Lot's of gramatical and spelling errors and I'm to lazy to fix them all.)
Wish Darkfall would release.
Ya know, I've been keeping an eye on Age of Conan, which is supposedly going to come out in less than 3 months, but it's seeming that almost a majority by now are doubting that AOC will be ready in 3 months, and if they do force it out it's going to be sloppy like vanguard was.
I'll still try it, but there's a reason I decided to just roll a new WoW toon; actually a few. 1 - a lot of people including friends of mine are still playing it and more people are buying it daily (a friend working at gamestop vouches for this that WoW is th most bought game in the store still), 2 - The new upcoming expansion means it's pretty much going to be a fresh start for everyone when that comes out, and I'll be 70 well before that, and finally 3 - AOC is going to have a fixed interface that can't be modded. I thought about that for a bit and realized how much I'm going to miss all my WoW mods and their convenience. I really hate when MMO devs don't let people mod their UI's.
And ofcourse as I said, AOC isn't going to come out in October. I'd be really surprised if it even comes out before Christmas. More than likely that game is going to get pushed back and their going to try to launch it before WAR. If they launch AOC after WAR, then AOC is screwed.
as far as im concerned, this wont bring me back (who cares,right?)
but just my words!
Played almost everything...
Currently playing nothing...
Waiting for: Darkfall, WAR, Guild Wars 2.
a lot of gw players say that blizzard copied arena net with the whole north theme well theyre wrong because by the time anyone knew that eye of the north existed wrath of the lich king would have been half way finished you cant just make a mmorpg expansion in a matter of months and by the way the whole aspect of the lich king in netherend and and the frozen throne has been in the warcraft story line for much longer than eye of the north dont get me wrong guild look awesome but im tired of people saying that one game is better than the other they both have diferent aspects for example gw has better graphics where wow has a wider range of character customization options which one is better isnt a matter of fact its a matter of opinion