The journal did appear to contradict itself in some areas.
A vast server array is not necessary to run a small scale closed beta, so blaming the lack of a closed beta on insufficient servers is less than accurate. If the game is currently in a beta-ready state, it is not necessary that they invite thousands of potential players to a closed beta. One hundred and fifty to five hundred would be more than enough to provide them with feedback for analysis.
Most telling however, and even more important, was their stated lack of a quality assurance manager or team. Further, the journal stated that QA was basically being handled and addressed by the developers during development.
This is an absolute necessity for an effective beta test. You have to have a dedicated QA team that is separate from the development staff, for many reasons;
1. The QA manager and staff can't be answerable to the development team. Their reports have to be independent from the development team, or you risk skewing of the QA process or inaccurate statistical analysis.
2. The development team simply cannot conduct effective beta testing because they anticipate what should be happening and often they will take the steps to ensure that it does, whereas an independent QA team and beta test pool will just report what does actually happen without bias because they have no intimate knowledge of the product or how it is supposed to work.
For example; I was the lead design for an independent development team working on a module expansion for a pretty well known series and we didn't get a QA team until very late in the process. The problem was that even though we were doing our best to play test the expansion during development, in many cases we were so familiar with the product that we ended up bypassing potential and real issues because of that familiarity.
We were "playing" the game, but because we knew what was supposed to happen, we didn't take actions that may cause the events in question not to occur or try any of the many hundreds of things your average gamer may think of to address portions of the game that may have had a completely different effect on the outcome.
By the time the QA team was in place and we had an effective testing and reporting process functioning , we discovered a whole host of problems that hadn't been discovered previously which involved some core scripting issues with the expansion.
Simply put, critical events were not occurring as they were designed to, or unexpected results occurred that were potentially game-breaking, i.e., script errors that allowed the player to kill key NPCs given specific circumstances which would bring the storyline to a grinding halt or events that were not occurring following trigger events when specific atypical actions took place before the trigger.
Because the team as a whole had to maintain our regular schedule of content development, asset creation, level and area design and scripting, the time left over to play test and actually address the issues we did find was very small.
By the time these issues were identified and we began the process of correcting them, the project was scrapped in favor of a new project. Although we did end up with a whole host of new material that could be applied to the new project, we ended up spending considerable time designing and developing something that would never see publication except as modified content for a different product (which incidentally, was also never published!).
So if they don't have at least a small (three-five personnel) QA team on board, they really aren't ready for beta. Not to say that they couldn't still hold a closed beta, simply that it wouldn't be nearly as effective without a team making sure that issues were actually being reported accurately and addressed as they were reported.
The lack of an effective QA team was reported to be a critical issue with Vanguard's development and given Vanguard's state on release, I think it is very clear that it had a negative impact on the product (along with a host of other issues, obviously).
Finally, the one thing I still haven't wrapped my head around is the publisher/self-publish issue. If they haven't been able to secure a publisher at this point and they are capable of self-publishing, then the issue seems to be largely moot. It shouldn't even be a real consideration at this point and nowhere near as important as beginning their beta process.
Darkfall definitely does not appear to be a hoax or scam, because to the best of my knowledge they haven't requested funds from their prospective clients for pre-orders or any other purpose.
However, by the technical definition, Darkfall could end up being vaporware. The simple definition of vaporware is "a software or hardware product which is announced by a developer far in advance of release but then fails to be published or produced, with or without a protracted development cycle" (paraphrase of Wikipedia definition vaporware ).
The only way to positively identify Darkfall as vaporware would be if the product is never actually published. So as long as they continue development and no announcement is made that Darkfall will not publish, it cannot technically be considered "vaporware", although I suppose that doesn't really affect perception or speculation.
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You know how many QA people there were for Vanguard? One. Not saying Darkfall and VG are the same. Just that having no QA is a HUGE problem, even having 1 is a huge problem. Developers cannot realistically QA their own game while they work on it. It just doesn't work that way. And yea, the 'we could have beta tomorrow, but we don't have the servers' is a cop out. Just another line of nonsense like they've been spewing for 5+ years now.
Their getting one because they realized that.
4 years actually and you dont have any proof so please try again.
games do their testing differently ..... Internal testing is to check stability for the few people on and to find the few bugs ..... Closed beta testing is like i said for finding bugs and checking server stability on a high scale. This game is reminding me alot of SWG before it went out ...... and we all saw how buggy that was at launch.
EDIT: Close beta testing is ALOT more helpful then internal testing, And yeah alot if not all of the MMOGs have done internal testing.
They are trying to get alot of bugs out of the game before they start open beta but if it turns out to have more bugs than expected than they are going to extend beta till they get them out. Of course if they have a publisher they might say otherwise.
lol im not talking about open beta im talking about a large scale closed beta like say for instance you first start beta and invite 500 people ....... in another 3 weeks you find its stable now you invited another 500 people...... the more people the more bug finding ...... I can care less about open beta, as long as it reaches a closed beta state ill be happy .... as in a Beta sign-up sheet with a .00000001% chance of getting in kinda beta ...... (like conan, WAR, and POTBS) (EDIT: err and TR)
Although you would probably have 50% chances to get in DF beta, since you would obviously be the only one who want's to waste his time with it. Along with that fanboy in which you have demonstrate far too much compassion for making such delusional statements.
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
games do their testing differently ..... Internal testing is to check stability for the few people on and to find the few bugs ..... Closed beta testing is like i said for finding bugs and checking server stability on a high scale. This game is reminding me alot of SWG before it went out ...... and we all saw how buggy that was at launch.
EDIT: Close beta testing is ALOT more helpful then internal testing, And yeah alot if not all of the MMOGs have done internal testing.
They are trying to get alot of bugs out of the game before they start open beta but if it turns out to have more bugs than expected than they are going to extend beta till they get them out. Of course if they have a publisher they might say otherwise.
lol im not talking about open beta im talking about a large scale closed beta like say for instance you first start beta and invite 500 people ....... in another 3 weeks you find its stable now you invited another 500 people...... the more people the more bug finding ...... I can care less about open beta, as long as it reaches a closed beta state ill be happy .... as in a Beta sign-up sheet with a .00000001% chance of getting in kinda beta ...... (like conan, WAR, and POTBS) (EDIT: err and TR)
Although you would probably have 50% chances to get in DF beta, since you would obviously be the only one who want's to waste his time with it. Along with that fanboy in which you have demonstrate far too much compassion for making such delusional statements.
lol im sure if it declared it was going into beta, most of the users on this forum would apply for the hell of it ..... theres nothing to play so you apply for beta, unless you play WoW or some other retarded game. I really dont know where this hate comes from .... all you are is a troll. You dont know for a fact no one would apply, next time you have a shitty thought like this ..... let it go.
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You know how many QA people there were for Vanguard? One. Not saying Darkfall and VG are the same. Just that having no QA is a HUGE problem, even having 1 is a huge problem. Developers cannot realistically QA their own game while they work on it. It just doesn't work that way. And yea, the 'we could have beta tomorrow, but we don't have the servers' is a cop out. Just another line of nonsense like they've been spewing for 5+ years now.
Their getting one because they realized that.
4 years actually and you dont have any proof so please try again.
You mean the proof that Tasos said they don't have the equipment yet? Read the last article again... You will see where he says that. Can't run a beta without servers... he contradicted himself.
Again you need to just relent to those people that know more about software production. QA is something that needs to start pretty much at the start of a project. They certainly should have had QA staff 2 years into development. If they do not have a QA department yet then they are not going to. Probably the reason why they are still looking... Who in their right mind would work for a place that wants you to QA a "finished" project... There would be months if not years worth of work and nothing you said would have an impact because the Devs have had free reign for 4 years.
QA and Devs are normally at odds. It is QAs job to tell the Devs when they have done a bad job... How do you like it when someone tells you your work is crappy? No sane person would take that job now if they are indeed as close to finish as the Devs claim. The Devs themselves certainly won't do what is necessary to QA themselves.
Again just more proof DF is taking a dive. Every time a Dev spins... the more I think back to what the Devs said in the other games that tanked. I think they all pull the same statements from a generic list. They all give the same excuses.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Why do people even discuss this "game" it's obvious that the people behind this game "bit off more than they can chew" and their way of handling it - is by way of vague answers, etc...
I honestly wouldn't play it even if they do manage to get it off the ground, they've displayed that they don't have it together.... mismanagement, is mismanagement, u fanboys honestly think that in the next 2 years their going to finally get it together????
You know how many QA people there were for Vanguard? One. Not saying Darkfall and VG are the same. Just that having no QA is a HUGE problem, even having 1 is a huge problem. Developers cannot realistically QA their own game while they work on it. It just doesn't work that way. And yea, the 'we could have beta tomorrow, but we don't have the servers' is a cop out. Just another line of nonsense like they've been spewing for 5+ years now.
Their getting one because they realized that.
4 years actually and you dont have any proof so please try again.
You mean the proof that Tasos said they don't have the equipment yet? Read the last article again... You will see where he says that. Can't run a beta without servers... he contradicted himself.
Again you need to just relent to those people that know more about software production. QA is something that needs to start pretty much at the start of a project. They certainly should have had QA staff 2 years into development. If they do not have a QA department yet then they are not going to. Probably the reason why they are still looking... Who in their right mind would work for a place that wants you to QA a "finished" project... There would be months if not years worth of work and nothing you said would have an impact because the Devs have had free reign for 4 years.
QA and Devs are normally at odds. It is QAs job to tell the Devs when they have done a bad job... How do you like it when someone tells you your work is crappy? No sane person would take that job now if they are indeed as close to finish as the Devs claim. The Devs themselves certainly won't do what is necessary to QA themselves.
Again just more proof DF is taking a dive. Every time a Dev spins... the more I think back to what the Devs said in the other games that tanked. I think they all pull the same statements from a generic list. They all give the same excuses.
You couldnt understand that sentence? He has the game developed for beta but all he needs is the servers. Thats what he meant and if you honestly didnt know that than i feel sorry.
They probably thought they could do both or didnt need one at the time but people make mistakes and now their correcting it. The job has been only up for a month or less.
So what makes you think its crappy hmm? Just because YOU think so doesnt make it true.
You can generalize all you want but aventurine isnt like the other compainies so you cant just tag it as vaporware just because others have failed.
You couldnt understand that sentence? He has the game developed for beta but all he needs is the servers. Thats what he meant and if you honestly didnt know that than i feel sorry.
They probably thought they could do both or didnt need one at the time but people make mistakes and now their correcting it. The job has been only up for a month or less. So what makes you think its crappy hmm? Just because YOU think so doesnt make it true. You can generalize all you want but aventurine isnt like the other compainies so you cant just tag it as vaporware just because others have failed.
I will say this once again an hope it finally sinks in. I NEVER SAID DF WAS VAPORWARE! I do think they will release a bad product and the company does not care about the community. You want to hit me on that... you can try.
I know what he was implying and if you knew anything about production servers, you would know that what he said was a lie. For beta they will be rolling out a test production cluster which they have not tested yet. They will need to tweek their code and the OS to optimize the server. This process does not happen overnight... They will run into issues, they will have to stop everything until they get these server issues fixed as it can affect how they develop directly. So yes he has a build they can throw out there... The is not beta ready... Beta ready is a build that holds up on production servers which THEY DO NOT HAVE.
Tasos saying beta could start immediately is false and misleading... more importantly as a Dev he knows this... That means he directly lied to get people off his back.
As to how do I know the game is crappy... It is called looking at history and the industry. There are red flags that strongly indicate the game will not be good.
1) Huge list of features.
2) No QA group.
3) Misleading comments by the Dev team.
4) Lack of basic game mechanics information.
5) New start up company.
6) Lack of publisher.
Those six reasons are strong indicators that the game is in trouble. You can say they are different... but the industry is the same... There are tried and tested procedures for developing MMOs out there... They work... No company would reinvent the wheel... It costs significantly more to do so. Being a small company they can't afford to take huge risks like that... it would kill the company. That means the only other conclusion is that they are obscuring the game for some reason... Again in the past when this happened it is because the game was subpar.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
That is what all developers do nowdays? As soon they have something to show, they invite editors.......just as Vanguard, Sword of the new World.......... They want to have everything done first, that is what they said! They want a publisher before beta. How the *¤#" would a beta be useful if they still are working with that thing.
Ohhhh....i forgot its ok to release bad, unfinnished games nowdays
Showing off the game would help them find a publisher. It would be great publicity for the game. But since they refuse to show it to anyone, it obviously isn't ready for beta.
lol POTBS had a closed beta working before they even had a publisher ..... its one of the most anticipated games of the year ...... and it is very well-done (i played it at the comic-con) Im pretty sure Darkfall can release a Closed Beta before they have a publisher.
Its obvious you dont follow darkfall at all. They want a short beta and to have a release right after the beta their going to need alot more servers than just the ones to run a beta.
its also obvious that if they do this it will fail miserably ....... most succesful mmos have a longer 2-6 month beta, to find and fix all the bugs ..... Most if not all the MMOs that have done what darkfall is planning have had horrible releases, such as AO, Vanguard, and a couple others. They should have a long beta to test the servers, inviting more and more and more people slowly testing the server limit (considering this is their first game) and finding bugs.
I could not agree more! For this game I would think they would have like a 6 month beta after all it is their first MMO and if Darkfall fails at release they are gonna go the way Sigil did, as in bankrupt! They need to Beta this game for a fair amount of time due to the complexity of the player cities with patrolling NPCs and all else they have said they plan on implementing.
I do want to see this game come out and do well, but a short Beta makes them sound rushed to get a product out that they are gonna "fix" as they go! /shudders thinking of tha Vanguard release/
You couldnt understand that sentence? He has the game developed for beta but all he needs is the servers. Thats what he meant and if you honestly didnt know that than i feel sorry.
They probably thought they could do both or didnt need one at the time but people make mistakes and now their correcting it. The job has been only up for a month or less. So what makes you think its crappy hmm? Just because YOU think so doesnt make it true. You can generalize all you want but aventurine isnt like the other compainies so you cant just tag it as vaporware just because others have failed.
I will say this once again an hope it finally sinks in. I NEVER SAID DF WAS VAPORWARE! I do think they will release a bad product and the company does not care about the community. You want to hit me on that... you can try.
I know what he was implying and if you knew anything about production servers, you would know that what he said was a lie. For beta they will be rolling out a test production cluster which they have not tested yet. They will need to tweek their code and the OS to optimize the server. This process does not happen overnight... They will run into issues, they will have to stop everything until they get these server issues fixed as it can affect how they develop directly. So yes he has a build they can throw out there... The is not beta ready... Beta ready is a build that holds up on production servers which THEY DO NOT HAVE.
Tasos saying beta could start immediately is false and misleading... more importantly as a Dev he knows this... That means he directly lied to get people off his back.
As to how do I know the game is crappy... It is called looking at history and the industry. There are red flags that strongly indicate the game will not be good.
1) Huge list of features.
2) No QA group.
3) Misleading comments by the Dev team.
4) Lack of basic game mechanics information.
5) New start up company.
6) Lack of publisher.
Those six reasons are strong indicators that the game is in trouble. You can say they are different... but the industry is the same... There are tried and tested procedures for developing MMOs out there... They work... No company would reinvent the wheel... It costs significantly more to do so. Being a small company they can't afford to take huge risks like that... it would kill the company. That means the only other conclusion is that they are obscuring the game for some reason... Again in the past when this happened it is because the game was subpar.
It seemed that way from what you were saying. Well that is subjective and we could debate till the cows come home but only time will tell than.
Ill make a simple analogy. Its like a car without wheels they got everything else done but need this essentail part. Yes but hes saying if that was all taken care of then beta could be ran. It was something to indicate how done they were with the beta build. Since they have had a playable demo on remote servers than im sure they have it pretty worked out.
He wasnt trying to say they can start immediately he was trying to show people how done they are with their beta build.
There is always someone or something that breaks the mold so while that has happened in the past that doesnt necessarly mean its goign to happen to this. DnL was underdeveloped and forced to release due to investor pressure and mourning that was... yea(Ill post the post about it later).
1.(above)
2. That isnt entirely necessary and it isnt something that the devs cant handle themselves(even though it would be easier). Its not going to fail just because it doesnt have a QA.
3. You find them misleading but if you truly read them and understand them than they arent.
4. They say about game mechanics but not about every single one of them.
5. Their new but that doesnt relfect their skill in programming.
6. Thats why they are deciding it. They are discussing whether to get one of the publishers or to self-publish.
Yes but this is a different way and new way(from my knowledge). Theres not just one way to do things this is just a different way. If they were obscuring their game why would they have a playable test version? Or did you mean it in a different way?
its also obvious that if they do this it will fail miserably ....... most succesful mmos have a longer 2-6 month beta, to find and fix all the bugs ..... Most if not all the MMOs that have done what darkfall is planning have had horrible releases, such as AO, Vanguard, and a couple others. They should have a long beta to test the servers, inviting more and more and more people slowly testing the server limit (considering this is their first game) and finding bugs.
I could not agree more! For this game I would think they would have like a 6 month beta after all it is their first MMO and if Darkfall fails at release they are gonna go the way Sigil did, as in bankrupt! They need to Beta this game for a fair amount of time due to the complexity of the player cities with patrolling NPCs and all else they have said they plan on implementing.
I do want to see this game come out and do well, but a short Beta makes them sound rushed to get a product out that they are gonna "fix" as they go! /shudders thinking of tha Vanguard release/
They want to have a short beta as a part of keeping skills and such a secret. The longer the beta is out the more is going to be posted on gaming websites and they want to keep that to a minimum. Of course if theres any problems and they need to extend beta they will more than likely do just that.
It seemed that way from what you were saying. Well that is subjective and we could debate till the cows come home but only time will tell than. Ill make a simple analogy. Its like a car without wheels they got everything else done but need this essentail part. Yes but hes saying if that was all taken care of then beta could be ran. It was something to indicate how done they were with the beta build. Since they have had a playable demo on remote servers than im sure they have it pretty worked out. He wasnt trying to say they can start immediately he was trying to show people how done they are with their beta build. There is always someone or something that breaks the mold so while that has happened in the past that doesnt necessarly mean its goign to happen to this. DnL was underdeveloped and forced to release due to investor pressure and mourning that was... yea(Ill post the post about it later). 1.(above) 2. That isnt entirely necessary and it isnt something that the devs cant handle themselves(even though it would be easier). Its not going to fail just because it doesnt have a QA. 3. You find them misleading but if you truly read them and understand them than they arent. 4. They say about game mechanics but not about every single one of them. 5. Their new but that doesnt relfect their skill in programming. 6. Thats why they are deciding it. They are discussing whether to get one of the publishers or to self-publish. Yes but this is a different way and new way(from my knowledge). Theres not just one way to do things this is just a different way. If they were obscuring their game why would they have a playable test version? Or did you mean it in a different way?
1) my point is no MMO that has released such a large list of features has been successful. Too much to balance... Too much to do and keep a game on budget. Especially for a new start up company.
2) Look it is not just me saying this... Take it from the countless other people in this thread that KNOW software without QA is a really bad sign. The reasons have already been stated. The Devs cannot QA themselves... That is like saying your going to give the keys to the fridge to a person on a diet... All you get is an empty fridge...
3) That's just it... I am truly reading everything they say... I am not back filling the holes like the fanboys. There are holes and that indicates a very bad conclusion when this game is released.
4) They talk a big talk about sieges and hundreds of skills... what they do not do is even show an example of what will be in the game. Name me another main stream game in development right now that has not dropped at least a little concrete info.
5) Not their skill at programming but do you honestly think that is all it takes to make a game? The lack of key positions within the company show they have never done this before and that does historically indicate the quality of product.
6) This should have already been done. The fact that they still have not decided this rather huge aspect to releasing their game shows again their lack of knowledge on production software.
This really is not subjective. If you would spend a little time looking at MMO development history with an open mind, you would see some disturbing similarities with DF. You are running on blind faith while I am pulling historical wisdom from the industry. Neither of us will know which is right until it is release, however without a shadow of a doubt my assessment has a much higher percentage to be true.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Originally posted by Questionable Originally posted by Devildog1 Originally posted by tvalentine its also obvious that if they do this it will fail miserably ....... most succesful mmos have a longer 2-6 month beta, to find and fix all the bugs ..... Most if not all the MMOs that have done what darkfall is planning have had horrible releases, such as AO, Vanguard, and a couple others. They should have a long beta to test the servers, inviting more and more and more people slowly testing the server limit (considering this is their first game) and finding bugs.
I could not agree more! For this game I would think they would have like a 6 month beta after all it is their first MMO and if Darkfall fails at release they are gonna go the way Sigil did, as in bankrupt! They need to Beta this game for a fair amount of time due to the complexity of the player cities with patrolling NPCs and all else they have said they plan on implementing.
I do want to see this game come out and do well, but a short Beta makes them sound rushed to get a product out that they are gonna "fix" as they go! /shudders thinking of tha Vanguard release/ They want to have a short beta as a part of keeping skills and such a secret. The longer the beta is out the more is going to be posted on gaming websites and they want to keep that to a minimum. Of course if theres any problems and they need to extend beta they will more than likely do just that.
If that were indeed their plan, it is just a tad bit shortsighted. A closed beta with a small pool of test players and a rigorous NDA is normally more than enough to ensure that only the information they wish to be released is released, while also ensuring that they get the product into large-scale testing.
In the long run, it really doesn't matter how long the beta is; players will report what they see as soon as they can, regardless of how long the beta is, unless it is a closed beta with an NDA. Whether they have a week, a month or six months, the information will flow.
Going back to the server issue; it does seem a little confusing that they have the resources to play test the game but they are incapable of supporting a small group of beta testers. The equipment that it would take to support a small group (say one hundred) is hardly outrageous. If the software itself is indeed ready for beta testing, it would be a rather simple matter to silence their critics by starting a small closed beta and scaling it up as they progressed toward open beta and release.
Again, the information released really is just a wee bit contradictory and I can understand how questions concerning some of the statements made would raise questions among critics and adherents alike.
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It's taken them almost 3 years to get servers? They are making an MMOG for christs sake. They've been promising beta for THREE YEARS. The 'um.. we dont' have any servers.. but we could hold beta today if we wanted to' works for nobody but the fanbois.
I'm guessing they have some servers but since they are planning to release almost right after they are should have a lot more servers than just enough to run a beta.
This is the most innane thing I have ever heard. During beta, especially early beta, you stand up exactly enough servers to run 1 instance of the game. You set that server cluster up to be able to theoretically handle however many players you expect 1 server cluster to handle.
During the BETA Testing you tweak and refine and determine your cluster's actual capacity and ability to handle load. You re-write sections of code to optimize performance and stabilize game play.
During OPEN BETA (thats the part you do when you're ready to stress test) you figure out your servers actual capacity, stand up more server clusters if you need to for release based upon your projected playerbase, and THEN buy spare hardware just in case you were wrong.
"WE don't have servers" is a lame excuse for not having a beta. If they don't have the server cluster built and ready then they aren't ready for beta. They're ready for ALPHA (if they really do have the code to a beta point). Beta testing an MMORPG isn't just testing the code. It involves testing bandwidth, optimizing code to maximize throughput, etc. It's not just about the pixels that you see on the screen.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Yeah right and yet they can't produce any videos with all the technology out there for creating them huh?
Let's face it, they are not even close to a beta. Check back in 6 months and we might see some movement there. I don't see this game before fall 08 at best.
Yeah right and yet they can't produce any videos with all the technology out there for creating them huh? Let's face it, they are not even close to a beta. Check back in 6 months and we might see some movement there. I don't see this game before fall 08 at best.
What the hell are you talking about?
Darkfall has video of in-game battles you moron. Maybe they're not going to rush into beta so the game gets a bad rep because of some major bugs, but I can say the game probably could be in beta and people doing shit right now.
Darkfall is not like your typical MMORPG that has been getting funded and the support of a major publisher for the years they've been working on it, the team has really put a lot of their own resources into the project. So ya it will take longer for them, shit they're probably doing a graphics overhaul right now just because people talk shit about how bad it looks(when honestly I think it looks just fine in most cases).
Anyways quit spreading retardation. There is already enough of that on the internet.
Yeah right and yet they can't produce any videos with all the technology out there for creating them huh? Let's face it, they are not even close to a beta. Check back in 6 months and we might see some movement there. I don't see this game before fall 08 at best.
What the hell are you talking about?
Darkfall has video of in-game battles you moron. Maybe they're not going to rush into beta so the game gets a bad rep because of some major bugs, but I can say the game probably could be in beta and people doing shit right now.
Darkfall is not like your typical MMORPG that has been getting funded and the support of a major publisher for the years they've been working on it, the team has really put a lot of their own resources into the project. So ya it will take longer for them, shit they're probably doing a graphics overhaul right now just because people talk shit about how bad it looks(when honestly I think it looks just fine in most cases).
Anyways quit spreading retardation. There is already enough of that on the internet.
Yeah right and yet they can't produce any videos with all the technology out there for creating them huh? Let's face it, they are not even close to a beta. Check back in 6 months and we might see some movement there. I don't see this game before fall 08 at best.
What the hell are you talking about?
Darkfall has video of in-game battles you moron. Maybe they're not going to rush into beta so the game gets a bad rep because of some major bugs, but I can say the game probably could be in beta and people doing shit right now.
Darkfall is not like your typical MMORPG that has been getting funded and the support of a major publisher for the years they've been working on it, the team has really put a lot of their own resources into the project. So ya it will take longer for them, shit they're probably doing a graphics overhaul right now just because people talk shit about how bad it looks(when honestly I think it looks just fine in most cases).
Anyways quit spreading retardation. There is already enough of that on the internet.
I see the fanbois are at work again.
LMAO.
*sniffs the air* smells faintly like vanguard.
The fan bois? Hell I probably wont even play Darkfall because as of right now I'm not playing any MMO or even interested in any except age of conan. I'm just pointing out Darkfall has shown it's in the works and has show in game video of combat. Ya I keep up with darkfall because about 3 years ago I was looking forward to it.
In the latest warcry journal they said that they can hold a beta tomorrow if they wanted and then of course go on to make up some lame excuses why they don't. So then why don't they let in some editors to play test the game if they are so beta ready? I am sure 2-3 editors from Gamespot or IGN or PC gamer wouldn't put too much of a load on their server and according to them they could hold beta tommorrow if they pleased. Hell they can even have them sign NDA's to not reveal anything publically. But at least they could say "look we let in some very notable editors to play test". So whats the problemo with that? Can't wait to see what excuse the fanboys manage to come up with for this one.
1). Why not use this thread for discussing the last warcry update ?
2). This is what I found in the update about the beta;
"I have to say again that we don't have a date yet. If anything is holding back the public beta testing at the moment it's important practical issues. One big internal debate for example is whether we publish this game ourselves or if we agree to work with one of several publishers, or accept a number of compromises between the two, based on business model, territory and a number of other factors that need to be carefully weighed. We're prepared for any eventuality, and we do have several options but the final decision is critical. In the end we'll be doing what's best for the game, and ultimately for the players. We want to settle this before we move to a beta, and preferably do that as soon as possible, but we're still considering several options. Agreements, negotiations, discussions etc. go at their own speed, and they cannot be rushed."
I must be getting blind because I do not find that "they can hold a beta tomorrow if they wanted to" stated anywhere! The "lame excuse" for delaying is considering investing in multimillion dollar worth of equipment themselves or let a publisher do it. I for one understand they may want to think a little about that one. Yeah, they might let editors from here and there come and play their game on in an internal beta environment, but that wouldn't be testing a beta release version and would not say much about the finished game. Beta is about running untested software on untested hardware and showing you can master both. As long as you only have the software, there is no use really to do a "fake beta" just to please some vaporware troll. By the way, anyone who knows about an ISO standard or best practice document that defines what an ALPHA, internal, closed and open BETA really is ? I tend to belive that it defined differently by each company but I could be wrong.
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
1). Why not use this thread for discussing the last warcry update ?
2). This is what I found in the update about the beta; "I have to say again that we don't have a date yet. If anything is holding back the public beta testing at the moment it's important practical issues. One big internal debate for example is whether we publish this game ourselves or if we agree to work with one of several publishers, or accept a number of compromises between the two, based on business model, territory and a number of other factors that need to be carefully weighed. We're prepared for any eventuality, and we do have several options but the final decision is critical. In the end we'll be doing what's best for the game, and ultimately for the players. We want to settle this before we move to a beta, and preferably do that as soon as possible, but we're still considering several options. Agreements, negotiations, discussions etc. go at their own speed, and they cannot be rushed." I must be getting blind because I do not find that "they can hold a beta tomorrow if they wanted to" stated anywhere! The "lame excuse" for delaying is considering investing in multimillion dollar worth of equipment themselves or let a publisher do it. I for one understand they may want to think a little about that one. Yeah, they might let editors from here and there come and play their game on in an internal beta environment, but that wouldn't be testing a beta release version and would not say much about the finished game. Beta is about running untested software on untested hardware and showing you can master both. As long as you only have the software, there is no use really to do a "fake beta" just to please some vaporware troll. By the way, anyone who knows about an ISO standard or best practice document that defines what an ALPHA, internal, closed and open BETA really is ? I tend to belive that it defined differently by each company but I could be wrong.
Apparently you stopped reading. Just a couple paragraphs down he said this:
"We understand that it may be frustrating for those waiting to play the game to not be given an indication on when, but since there are still several factors affecting this, some of which are external to us, we would rather not make a guess. In any case, there will be an official announcement on any development. Technically we're ready for a beta test today, and every day that goes by, we get more ready."
You can get an industry standard for both alpha and beta testing here or another example here.
As you can see it is all pretty standard. Each company is slightly unique but basically they all hold to the standard model.
alpha = internal testing by the company.
closed beta = external testing by friends, family, consumers by invite only usually with an NDA.
open beta = external testing open to anyone who wants to... No NDA... mostly for PR and stress testing.
hope that clears things up for you.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
1). Why not use this thread for discussing the last warcry update ?
2). This is what I found in the update about the beta; "I have to say again that we don't have a date yet. If anything is holding back the public beta testing at the moment it's important practical issues. One big internal debate for example is whether we publish this game ourselves or if we agree to work with one of several publishers, or accept a number of compromises between the two, based on business model, territory and a number of other factors that need to be carefully weighed. We're prepared for any eventuality, and we do have several options but the final decision is critical. In the end we'll be doing what's best for the game, and ultimately for the players. We want to settle this before we move to a beta, and preferably do that as soon as possible, but we're still considering several options. Agreements, negotiations, discussions etc. go at their own speed, and they cannot be rushed." I must be getting blind because I do not find that "they can hold a beta tomorrow if they wanted to" stated anywhere! The "lame excuse" for delaying is considering investing in multimillion dollar worth of equipment themselves or let a publisher do it. I for one understand they may want to think a little about that one. Yeah, they might let editors from here and there come and play their game on in an internal beta environment, but that wouldn't be testing a beta release version and would not say much about the finished game. Beta is about running untested software on untested hardware and showing you can master both. As long as you only have the software, there is no use really to do a "fake beta" just to please some vaporware troll. By the way, anyone who knows about an ISO standard or best practice document that defines what an ALPHA, internal, closed and open BETA really is ? I tend to belive that it defined differently by each company but I could be wrong.
Apparently you stopped reading. Just a couple paragraphs down he said this:
"We understand that it may be frustrating for those waiting to play the game to not be given an indication on when, but since there are still several factors affecting this, some of which are external to us, we would rather not make a guess. In any case, there will be an official announcement on any development. Technically we're ready for a beta test today, and every day that goes by, we get more ready."
You can get an industry standard for both alpha and beta testing here or another example here.
As you can see it is all pretty standard. Each company is slightly unique but basically they all hold to the standard model.
alpha = internal testing by the company.
closed beta = external testing by friends, family, consumers by invite only usually with an NDA.
open beta = external testing open to anyone who wants to... No NDA... mostly for PR and stress testing.
hope that clears things up for you.
Meaning they have the game developed for an open beta but they need other equipment. Im guessing you just ignored that part though.
"In any case, there will be an official announcement on any development. Technically we're ready for a beta test today". As you can see by saying they were ready for beta test it was a statement about the how far the game was developed.
Meaning they have the game developed for an open beta but they need other equipment. Im guessing you just ignored that part though.
"In any case, there will be an official announcement on any development. Technically we're ready for a beta test today". As you can see by saying they were ready for beta test it was a statement about the how far the game was developed. The game is in closed beta.
Blind fanboy fury.
As has been stated several times already and explained as simply as we could. There is more to a beta then a updated alpha build. The intricacies of hardware, OS, software, and game have to be fleshed out. This can only be done on a production server which Tasos has stated is not purchased yet. So how on earth can he claim the game build is beta ready? He does not even know how it will run or IF there will be any game breaking bugs when they push the game onto the servers.
In order to have a beta, you have to have external testers. Since they do not... this game is firmly stuck in alpha.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Hello, all. My name is Zorvan. Maybe you've heard of me, maybe not. Doesn't matter.
I am here to inform you all that I have been developing a game for the last 10 years that will blow Darkfall, and every other wannabe PvP game out of the water. At this time, I really have nothing to offer you in terms of proof, but I can say that the game is more than ready for beta testing, unfortunately I won't be having beta tests right now. But if I were to have one, the game is definitely ready for it!!!
So, please. Go tell your friends, your neighbors, your best friends wife while you're "visiting" as your friend is at work, TELL EVERYONE!!! Hype my game everywhere you can, as it will be the game to end all games!!
The name of my game is Light-Ascension.
Don't forget to write your congress person, as you will need official holidays dedicated to my game, as you will want to play it as often as possible.
Until my next startling update (Q4 2012, right after the Apocalypse). See ya all then!!
Comments
The journal did appear to contradict itself in some areas.
A vast server array is not necessary to run a small scale closed beta, so blaming the lack of a closed beta on insufficient servers is less than accurate. If the game is currently in a beta-ready state, it is not necessary that they invite thousands of potential players to a closed beta. One hundred and fifty to five hundred would be more than enough to provide them with feedback for analysis.
Most telling however, and even more important, was their stated lack of a quality assurance manager or team. Further, the journal stated that QA was basically being handled and addressed by the developers during development.
This is an absolute necessity for an effective beta test. You have to have a dedicated QA team that is separate from the development staff, for many reasons;
1. The QA manager and staff can't be answerable to the development team. Their reports have to be independent from the development team, or you risk skewing of the QA process or inaccurate statistical analysis.
2. The development team simply cannot conduct effective beta testing because they anticipate what should be happening and often they will take the steps to ensure that it does, whereas an independent QA team and beta test pool will just report what does actually happen without bias because they have no intimate knowledge of the product or how it is supposed to work.
For example; I was the lead design for an independent development team working on a module expansion for a pretty well known series and we didn't get a QA team until very late in the process. The problem was that even though we were doing our best to play test the expansion during development, in many cases we were so familiar with the product that we ended up bypassing potential and real issues because of that familiarity.
We were "playing" the game, but because we knew what was supposed to happen, we didn't take actions that may cause the events in question not to occur or try any of the many hundreds of things your average gamer may think of to address portions of the game that may have had a completely different effect on the outcome.
By the time the QA team was in place and we had an effective testing and reporting process functioning , we discovered a whole host of problems that hadn't been discovered previously which involved some core scripting issues with the expansion.
Simply put, critical events were not occurring as they were designed to, or unexpected results occurred that were potentially game-breaking, i.e., script errors that allowed the player to kill key NPCs given specific circumstances which would bring the storyline to a grinding halt or events that were not occurring following trigger events when specific atypical actions took place before the trigger.
Because the team as a whole had to maintain our regular schedule of content development, asset creation, level and area design and scripting, the time left over to play test and actually address the issues we did find was very small.
By the time these issues were identified and we began the process of correcting them, the project was scrapped in favor of a new project. Although we did end up with a whole host of new material that could be applied to the new project, we ended up spending considerable time designing and developing something that would never see publication except as modified content for a different product (which incidentally, was also never published!).
So if they don't have at least a small (three-five personnel) QA team on board, they really aren't ready for beta. Not to say that they couldn't still hold a closed beta, simply that it wouldn't be nearly as effective without a team making sure that issues were actually being reported accurately and addressed as they were reported.
The lack of an effective QA team was reported to be a critical issue with Vanguard's development and given Vanguard's state on release, I think it is very clear that it had a negative impact on the product (along with a host of other issues, obviously).
Finally, the one thing I still haven't wrapped my head around is the publisher/self-publish issue. If they haven't been able to secure a publisher at this point and they are capable of self-publishing, then the issue seems to be largely moot. It shouldn't even be a real consideration at this point and nowhere near as important as beginning their beta process.
Darkfall definitely does not appear to be a hoax or scam, because to the best of my knowledge they haven't requested funds from their prospective clients for pre-orders or any other purpose.
However, by the technical definition, Darkfall could end up being vaporware. The simple definition of vaporware is "a software or hardware product which is announced by a developer far in advance of release but then fails to be published or produced, with or without a protracted development cycle" (paraphrase of Wikipedia definition vaporware ).
The only way to positively identify Darkfall as vaporware would be if the product is never actually published. So as long as they continue development and no announcement is made that Darkfall will not publish, it cannot technically be considered "vaporware", although I suppose that doesn't really affect perception or speculation.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq
Adnihilo
Beorn Judge's Edge
Somnulus
Perfect Black
----------------------
Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2
Everquest / Everquest 2
Anarchy Online
Shadowbane
Dark Age of Camelot
Star Wars Galaxies
Matrix Online
World of Warcraft
Guild Wars
City of Heroes
4 years actually and you dont have any proof so please try again.
They are trying to get alot of bugs out of the game before they start open beta but if it turns out to have more bugs than expected than they are going to extend beta till they get them out. Of course if they have a publisher they might say otherwise.
lol im not talking about open beta
Although you would probably have 50% chances to get in DF beta, since you would obviously be the only one who want's to waste his time with it. Along with that fanboy in which you have demonstrate far too much compassion for making such delusional statements.
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
They are trying to get alot of bugs out of the game before they start open beta but if it turns out to have more bugs than expected than they are going to extend beta till they get them out. Of course if they have a publisher they might say otherwise.
lol im not talking about open beta
Although you would probably have 50% chances to get in DF beta, since you would obviously be the only one who want's to waste his time with it. Along with that fanboy in which you have demonstrate far too much compassion for making such delusional statements.
lol im sure if it declared it was going into beta, most of the users on this forum would apply for the hell of it ..... theres nothing to play so you apply for beta, unless you play WoW or some other retarded game. I really dont know where this hate comes from .... all you are is a troll. You dont know for a fact no one would apply, next time you have a shitty thought like this ..... let it go.
Playing: EVE Online
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4 years actually and you dont have any proof so please try again.
You mean the proof that Tasos said they don't have the equipment yet? Read the last article again... You will see where he says that. Can't run a beta without servers... he contradicted himself.Again you need to just relent to those people that know more about software production. QA is something that needs to start pretty much at the start of a project. They certainly should have had QA staff 2 years into development. If they do not have a QA department yet then they are not going to. Probably the reason why they are still looking... Who in their right mind would work for a place that wants you to QA a "finished" project... There would be months if not years worth of work and nothing you said would have an impact because the Devs have had free reign for 4 years.
QA and Devs are normally at odds. It is QAs job to tell the Devs when they have done a bad job... How do you like it when someone tells you your work is crappy? No sane person would take that job now if they are indeed as close to finish as the Devs claim. The Devs themselves certainly won't do what is necessary to QA themselves.
Again just more proof DF is taking a dive. Every time a Dev spins... the more I think back to what the Devs said in the other games that tanked. I think they all pull the same statements from a generic list. They all give the same excuses.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Why do people even discuss this "game" it's obvious that the people behind this game "bit off more than they can chew" and their way of handling it - is by way of vague answers, etc...
I honestly wouldn't play it even if they do manage to get it off the ground, they've displayed that they don't have it together.... mismanagement, is mismanagement, u fanboys honestly think that in the next 2 years their going to finally get it together????
wishful thinking.
4 years actually and you dont have any proof so please try again.
You mean the proof that Tasos said they don't have the equipment yet? Read the last article again... You will see where he says that. Can't run a beta without servers... he contradicted himself.Again you need to just relent to those people that know more about software production. QA is something that needs to start pretty much at the start of a project. They certainly should have had QA staff 2 years into development. If they do not have a QA department yet then they are not going to. Probably the reason why they are still looking... Who in their right mind would work for a place that wants you to QA a "finished" project... There would be months if not years worth of work and nothing you said would have an impact because the Devs have had free reign for 4 years.
QA and Devs are normally at odds. It is QAs job to tell the Devs when they have done a bad job... How do you like it when someone tells you your work is crappy? No sane person would take that job now if they are indeed as close to finish as the Devs claim. The Devs themselves certainly won't do what is necessary to QA themselves.
Again just more proof DF is taking a dive. Every time a Dev spins... the more I think back to what the Devs said in the other games that tanked. I think they all pull the same statements from a generic list. They all give the same excuses.
You couldnt understand that sentence? He has the game developed for beta but all he needs is the servers. Thats what he meant and if you honestly didnt know that than i feel sorry.
They probably thought they could do both or didnt need one at the time but people make mistakes and now their correcting it. The job has been only up for a month or less.
So what makes you think its crappy hmm? Just because YOU think so doesnt make it true.
You can generalize all you want but aventurine isnt like the other compainies so you cant just tag it as vaporware just because others have failed.
I know what he was implying and if you knew anything about production servers, you would know that what he said was a lie. For beta they will be rolling out a test production cluster which they have not tested yet. They will need to tweek their code and the OS to optimize the server. This process does not happen overnight... They will run into issues, they will have to stop everything until they get these server issues fixed as it can affect how they develop directly. So yes he has a build they can throw out there... The is not beta ready... Beta ready is a build that holds up on production servers which THEY DO NOT HAVE.
Tasos saying beta could start immediately is false and misleading... more importantly as a Dev he knows this... That means he directly lied to get people off his back.
As to how do I know the game is crappy... It is called looking at history and the industry. There are red flags that strongly indicate the game will not be good.
1) Huge list of features.
2) No QA group.
3) Misleading comments by the Dev team.
4) Lack of basic game mechanics information.
5) New start up company.
6) Lack of publisher.
Those six reasons are strong indicators that the game is in trouble. You can say they are different... but the industry is the same... There are tried and tested procedures for developing MMOs out there... They work... No company would reinvent the wheel... It costs significantly more to do so. Being a small company they can't afford to take huge risks like that... it would kill the company. That means the only other conclusion is that they are obscuring the game for some reason... Again in the past when this happened it is because the game was subpar.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Showing off the game would help them find a publisher. It would be great publicity for the game. But since they refuse to show it to anyone, it obviously isn't ready for beta.
lol POTBS had a closed beta working before they even had a publisher ..... its one of the most anticipated games of the year ...... and it is very well-done (i played it at the comic-con) Im pretty sure Darkfall can release a Closed Beta before they have a publisher.
Its obvious you dont follow darkfall at all. They want a short beta and to have a release right after the beta their going to need alot more servers than just the ones to run a beta.
its also obvious that if they do this it will fail miserably ....... most succesful mmos have a longer 2-6 month beta, to find and fix all the bugs ..... Most if not all the MMOs that have done what darkfall is planning have had horrible releases, such as AO, Vanguard, and a couple others. They should have a long beta to test the servers, inviting more and more and more people slowly testing the server limit (considering this is their first game) and finding bugs.
I could not agree more! For this game I would think they would have like a 6 month beta after all it is their first MMO and if Darkfall fails at release they are gonna go the way Sigil did, as in bankrupt! They need to Beta this game for a fair amount of time due to the complexity of the player cities with patrolling NPCs and all else they have said they plan on implementing.
I do want to see this game come out and do well, but a short Beta makes them sound rushed to get a product out that they are gonna "fix" as they go! /shudders thinking of tha Vanguard release/
I know what he was implying and if you knew anything about production servers, you would know that what he said was a lie. For beta they will be rolling out a test production cluster which they have not tested yet. They will need to tweek their code and the OS to optimize the server. This process does not happen overnight... They will run into issues, they will have to stop everything until they get these server issues fixed as it can affect how they develop directly. So yes he has a build they can throw out there... The is not beta ready... Beta ready is a build that holds up on production servers which THEY DO NOT HAVE.
Tasos saying beta could start immediately is false and misleading... more importantly as a Dev he knows this... That means he directly lied to get people off his back.
As to how do I know the game is crappy... It is called looking at history and the industry. There are red flags that strongly indicate the game will not be good.
1) Huge list of features.
2) No QA group.
3) Misleading comments by the Dev team.
4) Lack of basic game mechanics information.
5) New start up company.
6) Lack of publisher.
Those six reasons are strong indicators that the game is in trouble. You can say they are different... but the industry is the same... There are tried and tested procedures for developing MMOs out there... They work... No company would reinvent the wheel... It costs significantly more to do so. Being a small company they can't afford to take huge risks like that... it would kill the company. That means the only other conclusion is that they are obscuring the game for some reason... Again in the past when this happened it is because the game was subpar.
It seemed that way from what you were saying. Well that is subjective and we could debate till the cows come home but only time will tell than.
Ill make a simple analogy. Its like a car without wheels they got everything else done but need this essentail part. Yes but hes saying if that was all taken care of then beta could be ran. It was something to indicate how done they were with the beta build. Since they have had a playable demo on remote servers than im sure they have it pretty worked out.
He wasnt trying to say they can start immediately he was trying to show people how done they are with their beta build.
There is always someone or something that breaks the mold so while that has happened in the past that doesnt necessarly mean its goign to happen to this. DnL was underdeveloped and forced to release due to investor pressure and mourning that was... yea(Ill post the post about it later).
1.(above)
2. That isnt entirely necessary and it isnt something that the devs cant handle themselves(even though it would be easier). Its not going to fail just because it doesnt have a QA.
3. You find them misleading but if you truly read them and understand them than they arent.
4. They say about game mechanics but not about every single one of them.
5. Their new but that doesnt relfect their skill in programming.
6. Thats why they are deciding it. They are discussing whether to get one of the publishers or to self-publish.
Yes but this is a different way and new way(from my knowledge). Theres not just one way to do things this is just a different way. If they were obscuring their game why would they have a playable test version? Or did you mean it in a different way?
I do want to see this game come out and do well, but a short Beta makes them sound rushed to get a product out that they are gonna "fix" as they go! /shudders thinking of tha Vanguard release/
They want to have a short beta as a part of keeping skills and such a secret. The longer the beta is out the more is going to be posted on gaming websites and they want to keep that to a minimum. Of course if theres any problems and they need to extend beta they will more than likely do just that.
1) my point is no MMO that has released such a large list of features has been successful. Too much to balance... Too much to do and keep a game on budget. Especially for a new start up company.
2) Look it is not just me saying this... Take it from the countless other people in this thread that KNOW software without QA is a really bad sign. The reasons have already been stated. The Devs cannot QA themselves... That is like saying your going to give the keys to the fridge to a person on a diet... All you get is an empty fridge...
3) That's just it... I am truly reading everything they say... I am not back filling the holes like the fanboys. There are holes and that indicates a very bad conclusion when this game is released.
4) They talk a big talk about sieges and hundreds of skills... what they do not do is even show an example of what will be in the game. Name me another main stream game in development right now that has not dropped at least a little concrete info.
5) Not their skill at programming but do you honestly think that is all it takes to make a game? The lack of key positions within the company show they have never done this before and that does historically indicate the quality of product.
6) This should have already been done. The fact that they still have not decided this rather huge aspect to releasing their game shows again their lack of knowledge on production software.
This really is not subjective. If you would spend a little time looking at MMO development history with an open mind, you would see some disturbing similarities with DF. You are running on blind faith while I am pulling historical wisdom from the industry. Neither of us will know which is right until it is release, however without a shadow of a doubt my assessment has a much higher percentage to be true.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
I do want to see this game come out and do well, but a short Beta makes them sound rushed to get a product out that they are gonna "fix" as they go! /shudders thinking of tha Vanguard release/
They want to have a short beta as a part of keeping skills and such a secret. The longer the beta is out the more is going to be posted on gaming websites and they want to keep that to a minimum. Of course if theres any problems and they need to extend beta they will more than likely do just that.
If that were indeed their plan, it is just a tad bit shortsighted. A closed beta with a small pool of test players and a rigorous NDA is normally more than enough to ensure that only the information they wish to be released is released, while also ensuring that they get the product into large-scale testing.
In the long run, it really doesn't matter how long the beta is; players will report what they see as soon as they can, regardless of how long the beta is, unless it is a closed beta with an NDA. Whether they have a week, a month or six months, the information will flow.
Going back to the server issue; it does seem a little confusing that they have the resources to play test the game but they are incapable of supporting a small group of beta testers. The equipment that it would take to support a small group (say one hundred) is hardly outrageous. If the software itself is indeed ready for beta testing, it would be a rather simple matter to silence their critics by starting a small closed beta and scaling it up as they progressed toward open beta and release.
Again, the information released really is just a wee bit contradictory and I can understand how questions concerning some of the statements made would raise questions among critics and adherents alike.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq
Adnihilo
Beorn Judge's Edge
Somnulus
Perfect Black
----------------------
Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2
Everquest / Everquest 2
Anarchy Online
Shadowbane
Dark Age of Camelot
Star Wars Galaxies
Matrix Online
World of Warcraft
Guild Wars
City of Heroes
I'm guessing they have some servers but since they are planning to release almost right after they are should have a lot more servers than just enough to run a beta.
This is the most innane thing I have ever heard. During beta, especially early beta, you stand up exactly enough servers to run 1 instance of the game. You set that server cluster up to be able to theoretically handle however many players you expect 1 server cluster to handle.
During the BETA Testing you tweak and refine and determine your cluster's actual capacity and ability to handle load. You re-write sections of code to optimize performance and stabilize game play.
During OPEN BETA (thats the part you do when you're ready to stress test) you figure out your servers actual capacity, stand up more server clusters if you need to for release based upon your projected playerbase, and THEN buy spare hardware just in case you were wrong.
"WE don't have servers" is a lame excuse for not having a beta. If they don't have the server cluster built and ready then they aren't ready for beta. They're ready for ALPHA (if they really do have the code to a beta point). Beta testing an MMORPG isn't just testing the code. It involves testing bandwidth, optimizing code to maximize throughput, etc. It's not just about the pixels that you see on the screen.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Yeah right and yet they can't produce any videos with all the technology out there for creating them huh?
Let's face it, they are not even close to a beta. Check back in 6 months and we might see some movement there. I don't see this game before fall 08 at best.
Darkfall has video of in-game battles you moron. Maybe they're not going to rush into beta so the game gets a bad rep because of some major bugs, but I can say the game probably could be in beta and people doing shit right now.
Darkfall is not like your typical MMORPG that has been getting funded and the support of a major publisher for the years they've been working on it, the team has really put a lot of their own resources into the project. So ya it will take longer for them, shit they're probably doing a graphics overhaul right now just because people talk shit about how bad it looks(when honestly I think it looks just fine in most cases).
Anyways quit spreading retardation. There is already enough of that on the internet.
www.scarybadguys.com
Darkfall has video of in-game battles you moron. Maybe they're not going to rush into beta so the game gets a bad rep because of some major bugs, but I can say the game probably could be in beta and people doing shit right now.
Darkfall is not like your typical MMORPG that has been getting funded and the support of a major publisher for the years they've been working on it, the team has really put a lot of their own resources into the project. So ya it will take longer for them, shit they're probably doing a graphics overhaul right now just because people talk shit about how bad it looks(when honestly I think it looks just fine in most cases).
Anyways quit spreading retardation. There is already enough of that on the internet.
I see the fanbois are at work again.LMAO.
*sniffs the air* smells faintly like vanguard.
Darkfall has video of in-game battles you moron. Maybe they're not going to rush into beta so the game gets a bad rep because of some major bugs, but I can say the game probably could be in beta and people doing shit right now.
Darkfall is not like your typical MMORPG that has been getting funded and the support of a major publisher for the years they've been working on it, the team has really put a lot of their own resources into the project. So ya it will take longer for them, shit they're probably doing a graphics overhaul right now just because people talk shit about how bad it looks(when honestly I think it looks just fine in most cases).
Anyways quit spreading retardation. There is already enough of that on the internet.
I see the fanbois are at work again.LMAO.
*sniffs the air* smells faintly like vanguard.
The fan bois? Hell I probably wont even play Darkfall because as of right now I'm not playing any MMO or even interested in any except age of conan. I'm just pointing out Darkfall has shown it's in the works and has show in game video of combat. Ya I keep up with darkfall because about 3 years ago I was looking forward to it.
www.scarybadguys.com
lol, posted in the wrong one, lol KIDs thay make my brain tired
UO-EQ1-SWG-DAOC-WOW-EQ2-WAR-GW2-RIFT
2). This is what I found in the update about the beta;
"I have to say again that we don't have a date yet. If anything is holding back the public beta testing at the moment it's important practical issues. One big internal debate for example is whether we publish this game ourselves or if we agree to work with one of several publishers, or accept a number of compromises between the two, based on business model, territory and a number of other factors that need to be carefully weighed. We're prepared for any eventuality, and we do have several options but the final decision is critical. In the end we'll be doing what's best for the game, and ultimately for the players. We want to settle this before we move to a beta, and preferably do that as soon as possible, but we're still considering several options. Agreements, negotiations, discussions etc. go at their own speed, and they cannot be rushed."
I must be getting blind because I do not find that "they can hold a beta tomorrow if they wanted to" stated anywhere! The "lame excuse" for delaying is considering investing in multimillion dollar worth of equipment themselves or let a publisher do it. I for one understand they may want to think a little about that one. Yeah, they might let editors from here and there come and play their game on in an internal beta environment, but that wouldn't be testing a beta release version and would not say much about the finished game. Beta is about running untested software on untested hardware and showing you can master both. As long as you only have the software, there is no use really to do a "fake beta" just to please some vaporware troll. By the way, anyone who knows about an ISO standard or best practice document that defines what an ALPHA, internal, closed and open BETA really is ? I tend to belive that it defined differently by each company but I could be wrong.
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And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
"We understand that it may be frustrating for those waiting to play the game to not be given an indication on when, but since there are still several factors affecting this, some of which are external to us, we would rather not make a guess. In any case, there will be an official announcement on any development. Technically we're ready for a beta test today, and every day that goes by, we get more ready."
You can get an industry standard for both alpha and beta testing here or another example here.
As you can see it is all pretty standard. Each company is slightly unique but basically they all hold to the standard model.
alpha = internal testing by the company.
closed beta = external testing by friends, family, consumers by invite only usually with an NDA.
open beta = external testing open to anyone who wants to... No NDA... mostly for PR and stress testing.
hope that clears things up for you.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
"We understand that it may be frustrating for those waiting to play the game to not be given an indication on when, but since there are still several factors affecting this, some of which are external to us, we would rather not make a guess. In any case, there will be an official announcement on any development. Technically we're ready for a beta test today, and every day that goes by, we get more ready."
You can get an industry standard for both alpha and beta testing here or another example here.
As you can see it is all pretty standard. Each company is slightly unique but basically they all hold to the standard model.
alpha = internal testing by the company.
closed beta = external testing by friends, family, consumers by invite only usually with an NDA.
open beta = external testing open to anyone who wants to... No NDA... mostly for PR and stress testing.
hope that clears things up for you.
Meaning they have the game developed for an open beta but they need other equipment. Im guessing you just ignored that part though."In any case, there will be an official announcement on any development. Technically we're ready for a beta test today". As you can see by saying they were ready for beta test it was a statement about the how far the game was developed.
The game is in closed beta.
As has been stated several times already and explained as simply as we could. There is more to a beta then a updated alpha build. The intricacies of hardware, OS, software, and game have to be fleshed out. This can only be done on a production server which Tasos has stated is not purchased yet. So how on earth can he claim the game build is beta ready? He does not even know how it will run or IF there will be any game breaking bugs when they push the game onto the servers.
In order to have a beta, you have to have external testers. Since they do not... this game is firmly stuck in alpha.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Hello, all. My name is Zorvan. Maybe you've heard of me, maybe not. Doesn't matter.
I am here to inform you all that I have been developing a game for the last 10 years that will blow Darkfall, and every other wannabe PvP game out of the water. At this time, I really have nothing to offer you in terms of proof, but I can say that the game is more than ready for beta testing, unfortunately I won't be having beta tests right now. But if I were to have one, the game is definitely ready for it!!!
So, please. Go tell your friends, your neighbors, your best friends wife while you're "visiting" as your friend is at work, TELL EVERYONE!!! Hype my game everywhere you can, as it will be the game to end all games!!
The name of my game is Light-Ascension.
Don't forget to write your congress person, as you will need official holidays dedicated to my game, as you will want to play it as often as possible.
Until my next startling update (Q4 2012, right after the Apocalypse). See ya all then!!