Guess Blizzard must actually be worried about WAR, the hero class looks rushed in, and the siege environment looks like it was ripped straight out of DAOC.
Nothing in this expansion to temp me back, I gave up on WoW 5months ago and was hoping they may get something in the exp to tempt me, but its just more of the same and rushed additions to try and compete against WAR.
If they had put more depth into crafting (NOT another Profession) to make it mean something to people other than raiders, put less emphasis on instance PvP (You can bet sieges will not be open world where 'EVERYONE' can take, added guild/epersonal housing, added more quests and avoided raising the level cap again it would have been better.
You don't need to raise the level cap to make new areas and quests entertaing you just have to make what is in game interesting enough for people not to feel like they need to hit the level grind treadmill once again to get anywhere. At this point blizzard seems all about chrome and pretty baubles rather than substance, I was hoping they'd announce a Diablo MMO, but instead we get more of the same.
Good luck with the innevitable lack of balance with the classes at level 80, Blizzard have no idea how to maintain balance with the current levels/classes so enjoy multiple nerfs/buffs/adjustments that will come with level 80 and ONE hero class, (One is going to upset a lot of people unless it can be reached from every class line/spec). I guess it may solve balance issues tho, there will be millions of death knights everywhere, unless......... As is normal for Blizzard the only way to become a death knight is to be a Member of an ultra large raid guild and have the ability to play 15 hours a day, and knowing Blizzard thats what it will take.
This game is going further and further away from casual play, i.e. the people who pay Blizzards wages, I hope someone at Blizzard realizes that before its do late, because all I can see happening is the new expansion will alienate everyone except the most hardcore of their player base.
Maybe it's because we know that 90% of the new dugneons will be raid based. Maybe it's because we know that 90% of the new expansion will cater almost exclusively to high end players. Maybe it's because we know that Blizzard is incapable of innovation, so the xpac will be nothing more than the same old crap. Maybe it's because we want the game to change and yet Blizzard is almost belligerent about everything staying the same. Maybe we're getting tired of a lazy company, making money hand over fist and yet makes a poor showing of re-investing into the game.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Blah blah blah...Wow this and WoW that. Who cares if people don't like it or do like it the fact remains that the game is getting old and a lot of people aren't going to be interested in the Xpac because of that reason alone. Games naturally start to lose their fans as they get older. More and more people will begin to migrate to newer games. A big reason this happens is boredom of course, but another good reason is graphical upgrades in newer games that an older game doesn't have. Lets face it WoW was never a graphic powerhouse. They made great use of their art style to off set their use of lower end graphics. Their graphics engine was out of date when they released the game and now going on 3 years later the game is really looking dated.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
What about EQ? or eq2? ALL games have expansions that ADD content, usually more powerful than what existed previously... all content will imply that you have to play it... you know? it is supposed to be fun and hell if Outlands wasn't much much better designed than Azeroth! If Northrend is to Outlands, what Outlands is to Azeroth, woah! I'm there! So, no, I do not get this whining cause we get more content and who cares about your epixxx. You will get new stuff.
One thing to keep in mind is the majority of the complaints come from those new to MMO's. It just so happens the newcomers make the bulk of WOW's population. That and the fact WOW's populace is allot bigger so perhaps that's why the complaints seem louder..
The biggest issue I have with the new xpac is that Hero classes were promised shortly after release. I rememeber here about them in closed beta and now we have to pay to get one Hero class then in another 6 months or so we will have to pay for another one. Its BS.
I have to think this confirms my belief that raiders don't actually enjoy raiding. Personally I don't like raiding so it doesn't bother me that new expansions are coming out with new levels. I don't waste the time and effort required to raid. Obviously people are just doing these raids over and over for the equipment and they don't want to do it again. Thats why they complain.
The biggest issue I have with the new xpac is that Hero classes were promised shortly after release. I rememeber here about them in closed beta and now we have to pay to get one Hero class then in another 6 months or so we will have to pay for another one. Its BS.
They did add a lot of free content since release. Think of all the instances that were added in. I have a feeling hero classes will not cost more money each time they are released. It's highly unlikely that they will release one hero class per expansion. It's more likely the rest will be added in one at a time as they complete them just like the instances and talent points were added in.
The problem isn't the new raids, the problem is that none of the previous raid experience means anything. Your guild finished Naxx we will say pre-TBC, by level 70 its like you've never even been to a raid. Now you have to gear your character up in 5 man dungeon loot before you stand a chance in TBC entry level raids. Everything you did in TBC will be worthless, grinding rep, gaining items, all your pvp, everything will be horribly outdated as if you never did them in the first place.
60-69 content lasted not even 2 weeks for me (softcore player) and that was completing 95% of all quests in all zones. Like I said, I'm glad I quit months ago.
The level of misinformation in this thread is just astonishing. The lengths anti-WoW fanboys will go to never ceases to amaze me.
Hey, if you feel that outright lies and pure deception will justify your hate of WoW then that's fine because it's quite often hilarious to read the drivel you people spew day in and day out.
The level of misinformation in this thread is just astonishing. The lengths anti-WoW fanboys will go to never ceases to amaze me. Hey, if you feel that outright lies and pure deception will justify your hate of WoW then that's fine because it's quite often hilarious to read the drivel you people spew day in and day out.
What Lies? Why don't you give examples?
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
My take on it is the expansion looks like its gonna be exciting enough to draw back old players who got burned over the raiding scenes. It's another 10 levels tacked on the level cap and MOST old players most likely will buy the Xpac just to see what is going on in the world of WoW plus the xpac probably won't be out till first quarter of 2008.. but hey business is business that's another $30 bucks x 9 million profits for Blizzard. Let's face it, there WILL be expansions as long as the game is alive, it's all part of the game and business cycle. Heck even old games like EQ still churns out new expansion every year to cater to new and old players alike. WoW probably won't be going away for a long long long time no matter the haters want it or not. There's still a ton of content that the WoW developers can draw from after Northrend.. there's the maelstrom, emerald dream, current mount hyjal, tomb of sargeras, deathwing's lair, Uldum, titans returning, etc.
The level of misinformation in this thread is just astonishing. The lengths anti-WoW fanboys will go to never ceases to amaze me. Hey, if you feel that outright lies and pure deception will justify your hate of WoW then that's fine because it's quite often hilarious to read the drivel you people spew day in and day out.
If you're going to call people out for being liars, you'd better have something to back up your statements or they mean nothing. Simply calling everyone liars and leaving it at that is trolling, and a reportable offense here.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
While it is difficult to hate something which hasn't even come out yet. I think we can all agree that if someone were going to do it, the illogical 13 year old whiny brats who play WoW would be perfect for the job.
Jahar - "im pretty sure the "hero" classes were supposed to be in with launch"
Not true, there rumors of Hero classes at launch. It wasn't until Blizzard put Hero classes in the "Coming Soon" section on their In Development section months after release that Blizzard said anything officially.
Alyndale - "Blizzard has decided that crafting should be nerfed."
No idea where this came from. Blizzard is filling in crafting level gaps, giving crafting daily quests, better craftable gear to be used between levels 71 and 80, improving Engineering and adding a new profession that will be very popular.
Alyndale - "A crafter can only craft weapons and armors of high levels only for him/herself."
Not true. There are almost 40 Epic pieces of armor that are Bind on Equip and that's not including the pieces that are just for spell resistance.
Sunrider - "The grind to get the rep to get into the heroic dungeon is insane, the dungeon is harder then Naxx by like 50 (very few guilds completed Naxx prior to TBC), you have to then clear this dungeon to get the key to even be allowed into The Black Citadel, (which is 100x's harder then Naxx) then clear everything through that within a weeks time span...
Not sure what he's talking about because the attunement quest string for Black Temple no longer involves rep grind. That requirement was removed months ago.
Parsifal57 - "You can bet sieges will not be open world where 'EVERYONE' can take"
Again, wrong. Seige weapons and destructible buildings will be in the new Battleground and the zone Lake Wintergrasp. When you go to Lake Wintergrasp you are automatically flagged for PvP(even on PvE servers) and which side controls the zone gets a buff that spans all of Northrend.
Parisfal57 - "ONE hero class, (One is going to upset a lot of people unless it can be reached from every class line/spec)"
The Deathknight is only the first Hero class to be revealed and anyone can unlock it.
Protoroc - "60-69 content lasted not even 2 weeks for me (softcore player) and that was completing 95% of all quests in all zones"
Jahar - "im pretty sure the "hero" classes were supposed to be in with launch"
Not true, there rumors of Hero classes at launch. It wasn't until Blizzard put Hero classes in the "Coming Soon" section on their In Development section months after release that Blizzard said anything officially.
Actually it was mentioned while still in the testing phase.
Alyndale - "Blizzard has decided that crafting should be nerfed."
No idea where this came from. Blizzard is filling in crafting level gaps, giving crafting daily quests, better craftable gear to be used between levels 71 and 80, improving Engineering and adding a new profession that will be very popular.
Yes but they have made almost all of the high end craft gear only usable by the person who crafts it, there by negating crafting as a viable community tool.
Alyndale - "A crafter can only craft weapons and armors of high levels only for him/herself."
Not true. There are almost 40 Epic pieces of armor that are Bind on Equip and that's not including the pieces that are just for spell resistance.
But there are a ton of the best items only for crafters to use. Which once again removes crafting as a viable tool. when the game first launched there were numerous items that were actually wanted by even the highest levels and was on par with the best equipment that people could get from dungeons at the time. Crafters could create it and then sell them to players. That isn't the same anymore.
Sunrider - "The grind to get the rep to get into the heroic dungeon is insane, the dungeon is harder then Naxx by like 50 (very few guilds completed Naxx prior to TBC), you have to then clear this dungeon to get the key to even be allowed into The Black Citadel, (which is 100x's harder then Naxx) then clear everything through that within a weeks time span...
Not sure what he's talking about because the attunement quest string for Black Temple no longer involves rep grind. That requirement was removed months ago.
The basic point he is making still stands though. Even Blizzard has admitted that a small % of their players ever actually enter into the raiding zones. And the % has gotten smaller with each new Raid instance brought into the game.
Parsifal57 - "You can bet sieges will not be open world where 'EVERYONE' can take"
Again, wrong. Seige weapons and destructible buildings will be in the new Battleground and the zone Lake Wintergrasp. When you go to Lake Wintergrasp you are automatically flagged for PvP(even on PvE servers) and which side controls the zone gets a buff that spans all of Northrend.
Will that be open to EVERYONE? No of course not because first of all it is in Northrend, Secondly it is for higher levels not for lower levels.
Parisfal57 - "ONE hero class, (One is going to upset a lot of people unless it can be reached from every class line/spec)"
The Deathknight is only the first Hero class to be revealed and anyone can unlock it.
Once again not true. What about Joe Casual who still hasn't hit 60? There are plenty of them funding Blizzard. Once again Blizzard shows their contempt for the casual players and targets only the "Hardcore" players.
Protoroc - "60-69 content lasted not even 2 weeks for me (softcore player) and that was completing 95% of all quests in all zones"
I'm not even going to bother with this
Why not it is pretty true? There were plenty of people that blew through the content and had nothing left to do. Especially non raiders and solo players.
I stand by my statement that no lies were made in this thread.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Originally posted by Zarraa Originally posted by Volkmar What about EQ? or eq2? ALL games have expansions that ADD content, usually more powerful than what existed previously... all content will imply that you have to play it... you know? it is supposed to be fun and hell if Outlands wasn't much much better designed than Azeroth! If Northrend is to Outlands, what Outlands is to Azeroth, woah! I'm there! So, no, I do not get this whining cause we get more content and who cares about your epixxx. You will get new stuff.
One thing to keep in mind is the majority of the complaints come from those new to MMO's. It just so happens the newcomers make the bulk of WOW's population. That and the fact WOW's populace is allot bigger so perhaps that's why the complaints seem louder..
::Cough:: what? most people who complain about WoW are "new to MMO's?" Well i hate to tell you this but 99% of the people on these forums who complain about WoW are not new at all to the MMO scene and have played multiple games in the past and know what they are talking about.
To be honest, most people I know who "love" WoW are new to the genre and think WoW is the greatest MMO ever conceived... though there are a few vets who feel that way but they don't make stupid threads about how awesome WoW is. (Oh, and most people who are vets AND new the MMO's who are playing WOW i've found they're getting sick of there work being made obsolete)
Cabe2323, your post about the truths of them was beautiful. thank you.
"And after blizzard takes over the world, they are gonna gather a bunch of lemmings, sit on their fat asses near a cliff, and watch the little fuzzy bastards suicide dive into the ground below. . . . . all just for their own entertainment."
the people complainging are usually making statements that look like this.
"...its more of the same, more quests, more levels etc..."
Yes people, its an EXPANSION PACK, not World of Warcraft 2. They are not going to turn the game around 180%
"...Endgame content will be raiding, faction grinding etc..."
Every MMORPG needs a timesink at the cap level, its that simple. Developers can't create more content then people can play through.
And ofcourse, any new feature " Should have been there at release, or shortly,after release!"
"Hero Classes should have been shortly after release, Blizzard said so!"
If you actually paid attention when Blizzard was talking about Hero classes, you would have known that
Hero Classes were always listed under "On the horizon", not "comming soon". They were eventually scrapped from the "On the Horizon" list because they were not even on the horizon yet. Blizzard representives have said Multiple times that Hero Classes aren't comming anytime soon (this was years ago, ofcourse).
What about EQ? or eq2? ALL games have expansions that ADD content, usually more powerful than what existed previously... all content will imply that you have to play it... you know? it is supposed to be fun and hell if Outlands wasn't much much better designed than Azeroth! If Northrend is to Outlands, what Outlands is to Azeroth, woah! I'm there!
So, no, I do not get this whining cause we get more content and who cares about your epixxx. You will get new stuff.
One thing to keep in mind is the majority of the complaints come from those new to MMO's. It just so happens the newcomers make the bulk of WOW's population. That and the fact WOW's populace is allot bigger so perhaps that's why the complaints seem louder..
::Cough:: what? most people who complain about WoW are "new to MMO's?" Well i hate to tell you this but 99% of the people on these forums who complain about WoW are not new at all to the MMO scene and have played multiple games in the past and know what they are talking about.
To be honest, most people I know who "love" WoW are new to the genre and think WoW is the greatest MMO ever conceived... though there are a few vets who feel that way but they don't make stupid threads about how awesome WoW is. (Oh, and most people who are vets AND new the MMO's who are playing WOW i've found they're getting sick of there work being made obsolete)
Cabe2323, your post about the truths of them was beautiful. thank you.
Sunrider
I 'm neither fanboi nor hater of WOW or any other title I simply state such is the way of MMO's at least since I've been playing them. I discount those who've hated xxx title since day one as objective sources same goes for EQII, LOTRO etc.. I'm talking about those who actaully play WOW now. Surely those who have played old school MMO's realize expansions raises cap levels and usher in more powerful gear.
So is it illogical to say the majority of the complaints regarding TBC are comming from those who's first MMO experience is WOW. Surely an MMO vet wouldn't just wake up and realize this today having gone through it prior with EQ, DAOC..etc..etc?
Originally posted by Zarraa Originally posted by Sunrider
Originally posted by Zarraa
Originally posted by Volkmar
What about EQ? or eq2? ALL games have expansions that ADD content, usually more powerful than what existed previously... all content will imply that you have to play it... you know? it is supposed to be fun and hell if Outlands wasn't much much better designed than Azeroth! If Northrend is to Outlands, what Outlands is to Azeroth, woah! I'm there! So, no, I do not get this whining cause we get more content and who cares about your epixxx. You will get new stuff.
One thing to keep in mind is the majority of the complaints come from those new to MMO's. It just so happens the newcomers make the bulk of WOW's population. That and the fact WOW's populace is allot bigger so perhaps that's why the complaints seem louder..
::Cough:: what? most people who complain about WoW are "new to MMO's?" Well i hate to tell you this but 99% of the people on these forums who complain about WoW are not new at all to the MMO scene and have played multiple games in the past and know what they are talking about. To be honest, most people I know who "love" WoW are new to the genre and think WoW is the greatest MMO ever conceived... though there are a few vets who feel that way but they don't make stupid threads about how awesome WoW is. (Oh, and most people who are vets AND new the MMO's who are playing WOW i've found they're getting sick of there work being made obsolete)
Cabe2323, your post about the truths of them was beautiful. thank you.
Sunrider I don't count those who've hated a title since day one as objective sources same goes for EQII, LOTRO etc.. I'm talking about those who actaully play WOW now. Surely those who have played old school MMO's realize expansions raises cap levels and usher in more powerful gear. So is it illogical to say the majority of the complaints regarding TBC are comming from those who's first MMO experience is WOW. Surely an MMO vet wouldn't just wake up and realize this today having gone through it prior with EQ,DAOC..etc..etc?
Hmmm... so vets should be used to having their games shot to hell and all there hard work put out the window? Thats kinda dumb... lets take a look at a few games here
SWG: No expansion ever ruined it or your progress... with exceptions of the NGE (but that wasnt an expansion)
CoH/CoV: Never needed to raise level cap and no expasion runied previous work either, just added onto.
GW: Expansions still havent ruined things in this game... which has offered what now? 4 expansions?
FFXI: 4, onto 5 expansions here and no complaints about previous work being ruined... just a shitty economy
EVE Online: Several free expansions, not one ruined beginning areas and the expansions allowed the character to be WORKED UPON FURTHER
Earth & Beyond (for some classic vets): Added levels up to what? 150? but you know what you never spent hours and days raiding for equipment cause it could be built... plus you could level 3 different ways in that game... twas awesome.
RF Online: Shitty game, i know, anyways... free expansions no hours of days of tedious raiding to keep up with the pvp or other players and the gear can easily be replaced if theres an expansion with no hard feelings... aside from the obvious grind of the game itself.
"And after blizzard takes over the world, they are gonna gather a bunch of lemmings, sit on their fat asses near a cliff, and watch the little fuzzy bastards suicide dive into the ground below. . . . . all just for their own entertainment."
I dont think anyone hates it they just get bored with it becasue everything in wow is based on lvl .
LVL games means you dont have to use your head and try to think where to put skill points at.
Every lvl 1 is the same .xsample, now with thousands of skills and only so many skill point then you may have a game where everyone is diff and that means lvl 19 taking out a lvl 47 by just setting up skill in the right place.
Exactly. Blizzard should be making more for their expensive Expansion packs. They are pulling in so much money they honestly could afford to make content faster then most people can experience it. Sure the Ultra hardcore will grind it out faster but they aren't the majority of the subscribers. For some reason though Blizzard has decided to cater more towards those Ultra Hardcore players then the everyday regular player. I don't honestly see why and I think it will be what kills them in the end. They could totally afford to provide content similar to Asheron's Call 1. With Monthly free service packs of Quality stuff to do and combine that with Live events.
Or they could try and do something different. They have plenty of money so they could add something different as part of the expansion. I don't know maybe some type of long solo epic quest line to get gear. Something that doesn't require raid/pvp grinding and is actually as good of gear. You know they could of created some type of epic quest line that will take as long as say a normal Single Player RPG to complete. So you could either spend 100's of hours PVPing, Raiding, or doing this quest line to get your rewards. That way everyone has a chance to experience something fun and exciting.
But no, Blizzard now is controlled to heavily by the Raid or Die developers who have chosen a path and are not showing any signs of changing course any time soon. Hopefully something will come a long and wake them up, since they obviously do not listen to their own statistics that show them most people do not raid!
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Comments
Guess Blizzard must actually be worried about WAR, the hero class looks rushed in, and the siege environment looks like it was ripped straight out of DAOC.
Nothing in this expansion to temp me back, I gave up on WoW 5months ago and was hoping they may get something in the exp to tempt me, but its just more of the same and rushed additions to try and compete against WAR.
If they had put more depth into crafting (NOT another Profession) to make it mean something to people other than raiders, put less emphasis on instance PvP (You can bet sieges will not be open world where 'EVERYONE' can take, added guild/epersonal housing, added more quests and avoided raising the level cap again it would have been better.
You don't need to raise the level cap to make new areas and quests entertaing you just have to make what is in game interesting enough for people not to feel like they need to hit the level grind treadmill once again to get anywhere. At this point blizzard seems all about chrome and pretty baubles rather than substance, I was hoping they'd announce a Diablo MMO, but instead we get more of the same.
Good luck with the innevitable lack of balance with the classes at level 80, Blizzard have no idea how to maintain balance with the current levels/classes so enjoy multiple nerfs/buffs/adjustments that will come with level 80 and ONE hero class, (One is going to upset a lot of people unless it can be reached from every class line/spec). I guess it may solve balance issues tho, there will be millions of death knights everywhere, unless......... As is normal for Blizzard the only way to become a death knight is to be a Member of an ultra large raid guild and have the ability to play 15 hours a day, and knowing Blizzard thats what it will take.
This game is going further and further away from casual play, i.e. the people who pay Blizzards wages, I hope someone at Blizzard realizes that before its do late, because all I can see happening is the new expansion will alienate everyone except the most hardcore of their player base.
<end of rant>
Maybe it's because we know that 90% of the new dugneons will be raid based. Maybe it's because we know that 90% of the new expansion will cater almost exclusively to high end players. Maybe it's because we know that Blizzard is incapable of innovation, so the xpac will be nothing more than the same old crap. Maybe it's because we want the game to change and yet Blizzard is almost belligerent about everything staying the same. Maybe we're getting tired of a lazy company, making money hand over fist and yet makes a poor showing of re-investing into the game.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Blah blah blah...Wow this and WoW that. Who cares if people don't like it or do like it the fact remains that the game is getting old and a lot of people aren't going to be interested in the Xpac because of that reason alone. Games naturally start to lose their fans as they get older. More and more people will begin to migrate to newer games. A big reason this happens is boredom of course, but another good reason is graphical upgrades in newer games that an older game doesn't have. Lets face it WoW was never a graphic powerhouse. They made great use of their art style to off set their use of lower end graphics. Their graphics engine was out of date when they released the game and now going on 3 years later the game is really looking dated.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
One thing to keep in mind is the majority of the complaints come from those new to MMO's. It just so happens the newcomers make the bulk of WOW's population. That and the fact WOW's populace is allot bigger so perhaps that's why the complaints seem louder..
Dutchess Zarraa Voltayre
Reborn/Zero Sum/Ancient Legacy/Jagged Legion/Feared/Nuke & Pave.
The biggest issue I have with the new xpac is that Hero classes were promised shortly after release. I rememeber here about them in closed beta and now we have to pay to get one Hero class then in another 6 months or so we will have to pay for another one. Its BS.
Sooner or Later
I have to think this confirms my belief that raiders don't actually enjoy raiding. Personally I don't like raiding so it doesn't bother me that new expansions are coming out with new levels. I don't waste the time and effort required to raid. Obviously people are just doing these raids over and over for the equipment and they don't want to do it again. Thats why they complain.
They did add a lot of free content since release. Think of all the instances that were added in. I have a feeling hero classes will not cost more money each time they are released. It's highly unlikely that they will release one hero class per expansion. It's more likely the rest will be added in one at a time as they complete them just like the instances and talent points were added in.
The problem isn't the new raids, the problem is that none of the previous raid experience means anything. Your guild finished Naxx we will say pre-TBC, by level 70 its like you've never even been to a raid. Now you have to gear your character up in 5 man dungeon loot before you stand a chance in TBC entry level raids. Everything you did in TBC will be worthless, grinding rep, gaining items, all your pvp, everything will be horribly outdated as if you never did them in the first place.
60-69 content lasted not even 2 weeks for me (softcore player) and that was completing 95% of all quests in all zones. Like I said, I'm glad I quit months ago.
The level of misinformation in this thread is just astonishing. The lengths anti-WoW fanboys will go to never ceases to amaze me.
Hey, if you feel that outright lies and pure deception will justify your hate of WoW then that's fine because it's quite often hilarious to read the drivel you people spew day in and day out.
What Lies? Why don't you give examples?
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
My take on it is the expansion looks like its gonna be exciting enough to draw back old players who got burned over the raiding scenes. It's another 10 levels tacked on the level cap and MOST old players most likely will buy the Xpac just to see what is going on in the world of WoW plus the xpac probably won't be out till first quarter of 2008.. but hey business is business that's another $30 bucks x 9 million profits for Blizzard. Let's face it, there WILL be expansions as long as the game is alive, it's all part of the game and business cycle. Heck even old games like EQ still churns out new expansion every year to cater to new and old players alike. WoW probably won't be going away for a long long long time no matter the haters want it or not. There's still a ton of content that the WoW developers can draw from after Northrend.. there's the maelstrom, emerald dream, current mount hyjal, tomb of sargeras, deathwing's lair, Uldum, titans returning, etc.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
While it is difficult to hate something which hasn't even come out yet. I think we can all agree that if someone were going to do it, the illogical 13 year old whiny brats who play WoW would be perfect for the job.
Not true, there rumors of Hero classes at launch. It wasn't until Blizzard put Hero classes in the "Coming Soon" section on their In Development section months after release that Blizzard said anything officially.
Alyndale - "Blizzard has decided that crafting should be nerfed."
No idea where this came from. Blizzard is filling in crafting level gaps, giving crafting daily quests, better craftable gear to be used between levels 71 and 80, improving Engineering and adding a new profession that will be very popular.
Alyndale - "A crafter can only craft weapons and armors of high levels only for him/herself."
Not true. There are almost 40 Epic pieces of armor that are Bind on Equip and that's not including the pieces that are just for spell resistance.
Sunrider - "The grind to get the rep to get into the heroic dungeon is insane, the dungeon is harder then Naxx by like 50 (very few guilds completed Naxx prior to TBC), you have to then clear this dungeon to get the key to even be allowed into The Black Citadel, (which is 100x's harder then Naxx) then clear everything through that within a weeks time span...
Not sure what he's talking about because the attunement quest string for Black Temple no longer involves rep grind. That requirement was removed months ago.
Parsifal57 - "You can bet sieges will not be open world where 'EVERYONE' can take"
Again, wrong. Seige weapons and destructible buildings will be in the new Battleground and the zone Lake Wintergrasp. When you go to Lake Wintergrasp you are automatically flagged for PvP(even on PvE servers) and which side controls the zone gets a buff that spans all of Northrend.
Parisfal57 - "ONE hero class, (One is going to upset a lot of people unless it can be reached from every class line/spec)"
The Deathknight is only the first Hero class to be revealed and anyone can unlock it.
Protoroc - "60-69 content lasted not even 2 weeks for me (softcore player) and that was completing 95% of all quests in all zones"
I'm not even going to bother with this
My only concern with a solitary Hero class being implemented is that I think everyone will try to play a Death Knight now.
Also, I'd hate to see a repeat of SWG with the Jedi. It's VERY difficult to make an alpha class without breaking the game...
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Not true, there rumors of Hero classes at launch. It wasn't until Blizzard put Hero classes in the "Coming Soon" section on their In Development section months after release that Blizzard said anything officially.
Actually it was mentioned while still in the testing phase.
Alyndale - "Blizzard has decided that crafting should be nerfed."
No idea where this came from. Blizzard is filling in crafting level gaps, giving crafting daily quests, better craftable gear to be used between levels 71 and 80, improving Engineering and adding a new profession that will be very popular.
Yes but they have made almost all of the high end craft gear only usable by the person who crafts it, there by negating crafting as a viable community tool.
Alyndale - "A crafter can only craft weapons and armors of high levels only for him/herself."
Not true. There are almost 40 Epic pieces of armor that are Bind on Equip and that's not including the pieces that are just for spell resistance.
But there are a ton of the best items only for crafters to use. Which once again removes crafting as a viable tool. when the game first launched there were numerous items that were actually wanted by even the highest levels and was on par with the best equipment that people could get from dungeons at the time. Crafters could create it and then sell them to players. That isn't the same anymore.
Sunrider - "The grind to get the rep to get into the heroic dungeon is insane, the dungeon is harder then Naxx by like 50 (very few guilds completed Naxx prior to TBC), you have to then clear this dungeon to get the key to even be allowed into The Black Citadel, (which is 100x's harder then Naxx) then clear everything through that within a weeks time span...
Not sure what he's talking about because the attunement quest string for Black Temple no longer involves rep grind. That requirement was removed months ago.
The basic point he is making still stands though. Even Blizzard has admitted that a small % of their players ever actually enter into the raiding zones. And the % has gotten smaller with each new Raid instance brought into the game.
Parsifal57 - "You can bet sieges will not be open world where 'EVERYONE' can take"
Again, wrong. Seige weapons and destructible buildings will be in the new Battleground and the zone Lake Wintergrasp. When you go to Lake Wintergrasp you are automatically flagged for PvP(even on PvE servers) and which side controls the zone gets a buff that spans all of Northrend.
Will that be open to EVERYONE? No of course not because first of all it is in Northrend, Secondly it is for higher levels not for lower levels.
Parisfal57 - "ONE hero class, (One is going to upset a lot of people unless it can be reached from every class line/spec)"
The Deathknight is only the first Hero class to be revealed and anyone can unlock it.
Once again not true. What about Joe Casual who still hasn't hit 60? There are plenty of them funding Blizzard. Once again Blizzard shows their contempt for the casual players and targets only the "Hardcore" players.
Protoroc - "60-69 content lasted not even 2 weeks for me (softcore player) and that was completing 95% of all quests in all zones"
I'm not even going to bother with this
Why not it is pretty true? There were plenty of people that blew through the content and had nothing left to do. Especially non raiders and solo players.
I stand by my statement that no lies were made in this thread.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
::Cough:: what? most people who complain about WoW are "new to MMO's?" Well i hate to tell you this but 99% of the people on these forums who complain about WoW are not new at all to the MMO scene and have played multiple games in the past and know what they are talking about.
To be honest, most people I know who "love" WoW are new to the genre and think WoW is the greatest MMO ever conceived... though there are a few vets who feel that way but they don't make stupid threads about how awesome WoW is. (Oh, and most people who are vets AND new the MMO's who are playing WOW i've found they're getting sick of there work being made obsolete)
Cabe2323, your post about the truths of them was beautiful. thank you.
"And after blizzard takes over the world, they are gonna gather a bunch of lemmings, sit on their fat asses near a cliff, and watch the little fuzzy bastards suicide dive into the ground below. . . . . all just for their own entertainment."
Its because its WoW
the people complainging are usually making statements that look like this.
"...its more of the same, more quests, more levels etc..."
Yes people, its an EXPANSION PACK, not World of Warcraft 2. They are not going to turn the game around 180%
"...Endgame content will be raiding, faction grinding etc..."
Every MMORPG needs a timesink at the cap level, its that simple. Developers can't create more content then people can play through.
And ofcourse, any new feature " Should have been there at release, or shortly,after release!"
"Hero Classes should have been shortly after release, Blizzard said so!"
If you actually paid attention when Blizzard was talking about Hero classes, you would have known that
Hero Classes were always listed under "On the horizon", not "comming soon". They were eventually scrapped from the "On the Horizon" list because they were not even on the horizon yet. Blizzard representives have said Multiple times that Hero Classes aren't comming anytime soon (this was years ago, ofcourse).
"Siege weapons should have been there at release"
See above.
lol well put... i guess ><
One thing to keep in mind is the majority of the complaints come from those new to MMO's. It just so happens the newcomers make the bulk of WOW's population. That and the fact WOW's populace is allot bigger so perhaps that's why the complaints seem louder..
::Cough:: what? most people who complain about WoW are "new to MMO's?" Well i hate to tell you this but 99% of the people on these forums who complain about WoW are not new at all to the MMO scene and have played multiple games in the past and know what they are talking about.
To be honest, most people I know who "love" WoW are new to the genre and think WoW is the greatest MMO ever conceived... though there are a few vets who feel that way but they don't make stupid threads about how awesome WoW is. (Oh, and most people who are vets AND new the MMO's who are playing WOW i've found they're getting sick of there work being made obsolete)
Cabe2323, your post about the truths of them was beautiful. thank you.
Sunrider
I 'm neither fanboi nor hater of WOW or any other title I simply state such is the way of MMO's at least since I've been playing them. I discount those who've hated xxx title since day one as objective sources same goes for EQII, LOTRO etc.. I'm talking about those who actaully play WOW now. Surely those who have played old school MMO's realize expansions raises cap levels and usher in more powerful gear.
So is it illogical to say the majority of the complaints regarding TBC are comming from those who's first MMO experience is WOW. Surely an MMO vet wouldn't just wake up and realize this today having gone through it prior with EQ, DAOC..etc..etc?
Dutchess Zarraa Voltayre
Reborn/Zero Sum/Ancient Legacy/Jagged Legion/Feared/Nuke & Pave.
::Cough:: what? most people who complain about WoW are "new to MMO's?" Well i hate to tell you this but 99% of the people on these forums who complain about WoW are not new at all to the MMO scene and have played multiple games in the past and know what they are talking about.
To be honest, most people I know who "love" WoW are new to the genre and think WoW is the greatest MMO ever conceived... though there are a few vets who feel that way but they don't make stupid threads about how awesome WoW is. (Oh, and most people who are vets AND new the MMO's who are playing WOW i've found they're getting sick of there work being made obsolete)
Cabe2323, your post about the truths of them was beautiful. thank you.
Sunrider
I don't count those who've hated a title since day one as objective sources same goes for EQII, LOTRO etc.. I'm talking about those who actaully play WOW now. Surely those who have played old school MMO's realize expansions raises cap levels and usher in more powerful gear.
So is it illogical to say the majority of the complaints regarding TBC are comming from those who's first MMO experience is WOW. Surely an MMO vet wouldn't just wake up and realize this today having gone through it prior with EQ,DAOC..etc..etc?
Hmmm... so vets should be used to having their games shot to hell and all there hard work put out the window? Thats kinda dumb... lets take a look at a few games here
SWG: No expansion ever ruined it or your progress... with exceptions of the NGE (but that wasnt an expansion)
CoH/CoV: Never needed to raise level cap and no expasion runied previous work either, just added onto.
GW: Expansions still havent ruined things in this game... which has offered what now? 4 expansions?
FFXI: 4, onto 5 expansions here and no complaints about previous work being ruined... just a shitty economy
EVE Online: Several free expansions, not one ruined beginning areas and the expansions allowed the character to be WORKED UPON FURTHER
Earth & Beyond (for some classic vets): Added levels up to what? 150? but you know what you never spent hours and days raiding for equipment cause it could be built... plus you could level 3 different ways in that game... twas awesome.
RF Online: Shitty game, i know, anyways... free expansions no hours of days of tedious raiding to keep up with the pvp or other players and the gear can easily be replaced if theres an expansion with no hard feelings... aside from the obvious grind of the game itself.
"And after blizzard takes over the world, they are gonna gather a bunch of lemmings, sit on their fat asses near a cliff, and watch the little fuzzy bastards suicide dive into the ground below. . . . . all just for their own entertainment."
Nothing new in it... New hairstyles and dances?! I mean OMG!
If i'm correct, this is the FIRST time they release a SECOND xpac for any of their games...
eqnext.wikia.com
I dont think anyone hates it they just get bored with it becasue everything in wow is based on lvl .
LVL games means you dont have to use your head and try to think where to put skill points at.
Every lvl 1 is the same .xsample, now with thousands of skills and only so many skill point then you may have a game where everyone is diff and that means lvl 19 taking out a lvl 47 by just setting up skill in the right place.
WWIIOnline The Real War!
I just expected more from a multi billion dollar gaming comapany.
Exactly. Blizzard should be making more for their expensive Expansion packs. They are pulling in so much money they honestly could afford to make content faster then most people can experience it. Sure the Ultra hardcore will grind it out faster but they aren't the majority of the subscribers. For some reason though Blizzard has decided to cater more towards those Ultra Hardcore players then the everyday regular player. I don't honestly see why and I think it will be what kills them in the end. They could totally afford to provide content similar to Asheron's Call 1. With Monthly free service packs of Quality stuff to do and combine that with Live events.
Or they could try and do something different. They have plenty of money so they could add something different as part of the expansion. I don't know maybe some type of long solo epic quest line to get gear. Something that doesn't require raid/pvp grinding and is actually as good of gear. You know they could of created some type of epic quest line that will take as long as say a normal Single Player RPG to complete. So you could either spend 100's of hours PVPing, Raiding, or doing this quest line to get your rewards. That way everyone has a chance to experience something fun and exciting.
But no, Blizzard now is controlled to heavily by the Raid or Die developers who have chosen a path and are not showing any signs of changing course any time soon. Hopefully something will come a long and wake them up, since they obviously do not listen to their own statistics that show them most people do not raid!
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)