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What are your main concerns regarding WAR development?
Kharnath
Member UncommonPosts: 65
The title of this thread says it all: Are the developers right on track with the game, or do you see a potential blunder lurking around the corner? Personally, I’m very curious whether item decay is in or out. The way I see it, item decay is pretty much the deciding factor whether this will be a gear-grind game or not...
But as much as I love to "hear my own voice", I’d rather hear your opinion on the matter.
Comments
Just as long as they dont make it super easy so everyone wants to play it like WoW and I will love it. PVP in WoW is pick a class of the month use the chosen spec and smash face into keyboard yelling " I AM LEET"
If I had a concern (and I had to think a little hard to get one because ive been pretty happy with everything i've seen so far), it would be that too much might hinge on a players ability to find a good guild. If by chance you end up in a bad one at the start, it could significantly impact your ability to compete and advance. We don't have a lot of details on the guild levels yet, so thats a part of it.
However the benefit of good guilds is not really development related, and can be true for most mmorpgs, so i think its just the nature of the beast.
As for item decay... most of the time this would have been a concern of mine as well. When SWG was in development, item decay was one of my most enthusiastic subjects of debate. But thats because I went into it thinking one of the primary focuses of the game should be the player market.
This is not true for my feelings of WAR - tradeskills are a perk but i dont consider it a primary focus of the game. And so item decay isn't quite so important to me. However, this is not to say that I would mind if it WAS included. It just doesn't matter to me one way or another.
To me the only thing that determines a gear grind is how reliant the battle system is on gear. Will an Ironbreaker with all rares/epics beat an Ironbreaker in common gear? Or will skill prevail?
My concerns are:
1) Will world PvP be engaging and fun?
2)Will high-levels just gank newbs constantly?
3) Will instanced PvP be so much more rewarding then open PvP that we're all stuck in WoW-like BGs?
4) Will there be any class(es) so powerful they will run rampant over other classes?
5) Will they be able to balance the above with a decent amount of engaging PvE for when I just want to quest?
6) What will the "endgame" be like?
That I haven't gotten into beta yet!
Seriously though, I trust Mythic to make a solid game.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I have one large concern. My biggest concern has to do with how Mythic is handling the lore in game. They have made certain recent announcements around 2 Chaos classes which has really irked me. When stacked up on previous other announcements that also weren't that great for Order classes they've gain a bad history in regards with staying faithful to lore on the surface or at least when giving a good enough reason to support their decisions.
Though the biggest reason why I was bothered by their most recent of decisions on these 2 current Chaos classes had more to do with their rather lame excuse for one and flat out fallacy for another in which Ip/Lore actually contradicted their reasoning behind their announcement.
Seriously the main draw for Warhammer for me is it's rich and deep IP/Lore. RvR/PvP is great and all but if they are going butt rape lore like Blizzard does with WoW they'd be better off just making DAOC 2 instead IMHO.
People who have supported Mythic and this game from day one have been the Warhammer fans. Those who will be the bulk of the first day buyers will be Warhammer fans. I dearly hope they stay true to Lore and their fans. I dearly hope they handle the Lore in this game better in the future and really think through their decisions and announcements.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
I just hope that this game lives up to the hype its receiving. I plan on supporting this game though
. Also I trust that this wont be a dissapointing game that WoW was. I regret ever playing that grindfest game ><
Just curious...what announcements were those and how did they differ from lore?
I can't really judge that because my knowledge of Warhammer Fantasy's lore isn't what I'd call fantastic, but just curious to see how big of changes they're making.
As someone that doesn't know an ounce of Warhammer lore.. you have me interested. Can you give any detail on the particular lore contradictions they made? The excuse or the fallacy? You don't have to go into big detail if you don't want, but I am curious.
There are several and I'll list them below.
1.) There are no female Priest of Sigmar period. This is a factual part of the lore in IP. In fact female orders that have professed the ability to hear the voice of Sigmar as well as being able to offer up prayers were all hunted down and exterminated by Witch Hunters in the past. The only ones who are allowed to hear the voice of Sigmar and offer up prayers are men who become Priest of Sigmar.
2.) Female Dwarfs are rarely if ever seen outside of dwarf holds. The only times female dwarfs pick up weapons and fight is when the male army has been totally defeated in the field and there is no one left to defend the walls/gates. While female Dwarfs are taught to fight their main roles in dwarf society is to tend to the home and they very rarely if ever leave their homes.
3.) Their decision on male only Chosen was pretty lame. They said they "could not conceptualize a female Chosen properly in a iconic manner.". I find that to be highly suspicious. There are plenty of examples of female Chosen in Warhammer. Books like the Liber Chaotic, Tome of Corruption, the Chaos Army books, and several novels all have written accounts of female Chosen fighting for Chaos.
Chaos is the most inclusive of all factions in the Warhammer IP. If you are deemed to be a devout follower of the Chaos god(s) you will be brought into the fold, armed to the teeth and granted the gift of mutations. Chaos does not care if you are black, white, yellow, green, female, male or orc ( asexual ) etc. If you are ready to further the cause for the Chaos God(s) you will be used and abused until you reach deamonhood, die or go crazy and mutate into a lowly Chaos spawn.
Also female Chosen are 10000x more iconic then the rarely seen female Dwarfs or the fallacy of a female Priest of Sigmar which do not exist period.
4.) Their decision on no female Marauders for Chaos is again another problem as well. This time though they did not use the "we can't draw any good pictures of one" excuse and instead said it was "against lore". Of course this is patently false because again just like the female Chosen there are plenty of examples of female Marauders fighting for Chaos in the Liber Chaotic, Chaos Army book, Tome of Corruption, etc...
Over all there are more examples of female Chosen and Marauders in Warhammer Lore/IP then their are of female Dwarfs warriors or the fallacy laden female Priest of Sigmar. In fact the title "Priest" is pretty indicative of the male only role for Priests of Sigmar.
Also these Chaos females are 100000x more iconic the female dwarfs which are rarely if ever seen and the fake female Priest of Sigmar who do not exist period.
************************************************************
So now I seriously hope they do not further bend and twist the lore again and allow any female Dark Elf Assassin if they put them into the game or male Witch Elves or Sorceress.
The only ones who can become Assassins in Dark Elf lore are male infants who survive being thrown into the cauldron of blood by Witch Elves during the Death Night.
A Dark Elf Sorcerer who wields magic openly in Dark Elf society is like a Jewish Man walking into Hitlers office during the height of WW2 Nazi Germany's "final solution" phase of that war.
Basically wielding magic openly as a male DE would get them killed fast and they certainly do not offer their service to the Dark Elf army which is control by Malekith.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
That's...baffling.
Adding females to classes agains tthe lore I can ALMOST see....gender equality for players and whatnot. Yeah it screws over lore but it makes players happy so it's almost understandable. Almost Misfit, so please don't jump on me!!!
Keeping classes that HAVE females male only? Makes. No. Sense. Asian MMOs do that sort of thing and I hate it. Hopefully Mythic will change their minds about that, because it is vaguely worriesome. Or if they have good reasons, hopefully they'll tell us what they are.
At the rate they are going they might as well call it Hammer of Worldcraft.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
I hafta say if Misfit 'c comments are indeed true about the reason Myuthic doesn't have marauders is because they can't draw them well, then you also whave to wonder just how close are they to Games Workshop.
For Petes sake, is there not a drawing at least of a female Marauder in these tomes? No figurine?
As for Female Chosen, how hard can it be? What is going on?
For a company claiming to be slavishly faithful to the IP, they have taken several liberties, many which do not really have such animpact to the MMO system.
Misfits list: No Female Priests. Sounds good to me. Greenskins don't have females. Is there some craving to have Female Priests? We aint begging for the sexy look - this is WAR!
No Female Chosen/ Marauders - yet sources show there were females in these professions. What? Can't draw a mean looking woman who can unleash a whoopin?
Female dwarves rare, but in the lore - Ok we can live with it. Don't want girl gamers to feel left out. At least this can be supported by lore.
Zealots - no such profession. Created solely for this MMO system. In other words Chaos needs a healer in their ranks or people will moan, cry and not play the game. Guess its too hard to balance the game with things such as higher dps values, damage mitigation skills, crowd control skills, etc. In the name of Khorne, how did tabletop matchups (Chaos vs.Empire) workout?
Dwarven steeds - there is talk of bears. Is this another "rare but in the lore somehwere", or is it just a matter of all the other races have em, if dwarves don't no one will play them? Dwarves can't have engineering marvels which can make them attractive to players?
::sigh::
1st of this is an MMO first and Warhammer 2nd, GW gets this so why cant the Warhammer lore freaks?
Mythic is making this game as an RvR MMO in the Warhammer universe, as such GW has given Mythic wiggle room to work with the lore so they can create the game they want to. Much like the batman analogy they like to use, Batman is a franchise with comics, tv shows, cartoons, movies, etc. They are all batman yet they are all different in their own ways, WAR is Warhammer but in its own context taken from the SPIRIT of Warhammer.
I am not a huge Warhammer junky but I have gleaned a lot of information from reading GW site, books, and from the debates amongst the die hard loreists at Warhammer Alliance forums. Also as a note they are not using just 1 thing from the IP such as just the books or just the TT game or just the RPG game, they are using the whole Warhammer IP which encompeses all of Warhammer. So they will and are using old material as well as the new material.
As for female warrior priests I hear they exist or existed, were rare and some were hunted or outcasted (although that is debated amongst which version of whatever). As for them being sexy maybe you need to look at the concept art, none of them are the super model body with big boobs and skimpy armor from games of past. They are feminine but they look like they can kick ass.
As for the chosen/marauder Mythic has stated why they did this, lore junkies just choose to ignore it and continue to just cry about it. They are going for an iconic look for classes in THIS GAME, this I guess you could call alternate iteration of Warhammer lore. They did not want to go the route of having the females just be a female face on a male chosen body model so they just decided to do with out females. This decision was made long ago and GW approved it, as GW must approve pretty much anything lore wise which is pretty much the entire game. They want iconic looks for their classes and determined they could not do this well enough for their standards while keeping the avatars feminine so they did without females for those 2 classes.
Zealots were created by Mythic to fill a need they had for the hybrid support class for Chaos. This was created with the partnership with GW and there is hints that GW may very well absorb the zealot for their next iteration of the TT game. Also TT games work differently than MMOs so of course they would have different structures, if you cant see that then I feel sorry for you. Its much like book to movie or movie to video game translations, each medium has their own limitations and strengths therefore a book made into a movie made into a video game all 3 will not nor can not be exactly the same. What might make a book entertaining will not neccessarily make it entertaining in a movie or a video game and vice versa.
Remember people GW is very active with this game, however it has been stated that WAR is its own unique identity. It is in its own little bubble universe outside the timeline and dimension of the TT game, RPG game, or books. Take it for what it is.
P.S. also I dont see them limiting chosen/marauders as only males as them dumbing the game down to be like WoW. On the contrary it shows they have a set vision and goal with the game and that is what they want to create. Unlike WoW where they seemed to throw crap together they think might be cool and seeing what happens. If it werent for the fact that Blizzard made WoW or that it had the Warcraft IP WoW would not be as popular as it is now, even if the game were the exact same.
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
Take it easy man. We asked him what lore in particular bugged him, and he was nice enough to tell us. He wasn't trying to push his reasons off on anyone. There is really no reason to criticize it even if you find it silly.
1st of all I dont think its silly, I personally like to get involved with the lore of a game. However I also like to remain as objective as possible, especially when it comes to the development of a game.
Also I was not criticizing him, any negative comments were aimed mostly at the people who are so die hard they refuse to listen to anything. Also this topic has been raging ever since the announcement on quite a few boards.
I was merely showing the other side of the arguments, let people decide on their own. If you only hear one side then sure it seems like Mythic is a bunch of lazy incompetent jerks who are pushing GW around.
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
Really if it were a MMO first and they had no intention of every realizing the truth of the lore in the Warhammer IP then there would be need to go after the Warhammer IP to begin with at all. They could of just as easily of done a DAOC 2. The truth is they choose Warhammer because they wanted its IP so that they could use it to create a game world and sell it to Warhammer fans first and foremost. Much like LOTRO uses the LOTR IP to sell it's game to Tolkien fans.
Also while I am a avid ( if not hardcore ) Warhammer and Warhammer 40k fan at almost every level please don't think me so naive as to believe that GW does not rubber stamp flawed interpretations of their own IP once they signed the dotted line. Crappy PC games like Warhammer 40k: Fire Warrior or the mediocre Warhammer: Mark of Chaos are both prime of examples of GW really not holding companies true to their IP.
Now I am not blind in understanding that for game play mechanics sake certain aspects of the lore will need to be changed or toned down. For example a Chaos Chosen cannot be the unstoppable juggernaut on the battle field like he/she is in the TT or in the lore. Yet when it comes to things such as genders of classes it is not unreasonable to ask them to simply "GET IT RIGHT!".
Out of any area in the game this is the one area where they don't even have to worry about game altering mechanics getting in the way of implementing the lore properly. This the area where all they have to do is look at the factual lore and say "Okay this is in the lore so we can allow it.". There is not any good excuse why they have messed up so badly as they have done with the lore in this regard. Now maybe they have their own agenda outside of keeping with the game lore or they let the marketing folks have way to much say in the game. Either way it's not acceptable IMHO in parts of the game that do not hinder the actual mechanics of gameplay itself.
Also please dont even think of suggesting that there is any doubt whatsoever about there not being any female Priest of Sigmar. Sorry but your are so wrong in this area that its not even funny that you are somehow attempting to pawn off the assertion that there is any debate whatsoever in this area by people well versed in the Warhammer lore.
The fact is that in lore all female orders that have attempted to integrate or replace the male dominated order of the Priest of Sigmar were hunted down and exterminated within the Empire. Any female that suggests or proclaims that she herself can hear the voice of Sigmar is consider a heretic and would soon find herself burning on a stake.
This is not even a debate. The offshoot Warhammer game by GW called Middenheim there are prime examples in lore where there is factual evidence proving the point that past female orders who professed to act in the same manner such as Priest of Sigmar were all labeled as heretics by the Empire and were subsequently hunted down and exterminated.
Again this is not up for debate at all. As any one well versed in Warhammer lore knows that The Empire is not going to just sit idly by and allow heretics to openly go out and undermine their authority or their religious worship of Sigmar. Hence this is why we have the creation of Witch Hunters within The Empire and in the Warhammer lore.
P.S. There are plenty of examples of female Chaos warriors and Chosens in books such as the Liber Chaotic and other works that Mythic could of used as inspiration. I have more but many of the pictures show naked bits and pieces so I don't want the mods jumping on my case.
This here is a female Chosen in full plate.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
A player driven economy works solely on the premise that item decay and/or destruction is part of the MMOG in question. And that's not just based on assumptions - there are several examples to support the argument. Star Wars Galaxies, Ultima Online and EVE Online. They're all good examples of games with a thriving player market and item decay and/or destruction. EverQuest and World of Warcraft are good examples of the opposite.
However, I don't expect to find a very deep and well-conceived economy in Warhammer Online. But that's okay - because Warhammer is not about crafters and merchants. It's about Order and Destruction. It's about warring factions. It's about kicking the living shit out of enemy players.
What really concerns me about item decay - or should I say the lack of it - is that people may spend an exorbitant amount of time trying to get the best possible equipment in the game if item decay is nonexistent. It's understandable that players try to improve their characters gear-wise in order to make them more competitive, but it's just plain wrong when it becomes the sole purpose of the game. That's why I hope the developers implement item decay - as a means to take focus off of items.
My concerns are:
1) Will world PvP be engaging and fun?
hard to say, based on DAOC, probably yes.
2)Will high-levels just gank newbs constantly?
PvP will be in PvP areas only, so you wont get ganked while trying to level if you stick to PvE zones.
3) Will instanced PvP be so much more rewarding then open PvP that we're all stuck in WoW-like BGs?
Looks like we'll be more stuck with instanced PvP then we'd like. Hard to say yet how the world PvP will really work out.
4) Will there be any class(es) so powerful they will run rampant over other classes?
Of course, and nerfs will come.. then crying, then another overpowered class.. this is inevitable.
5) Will they be able to balance the above with a decent amount of engaging PvE for when I just want to quest?
Rumor is that the PvE content is similar to WoW, but enhanced with the new features. Should be good, especially if you dont mind WoW PvE.
6) What will the "endgame" be like?
Definitely PvP heavy, endgame PvE I have heard nothing about but I imagine they will offer raids.
I hope this helps!
Grymm
MMO addict in recovery!
EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH,
Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!
2) They said that higher level players who try to go back to low level zones will be turned into chickens and chaos chickens and be easily ganked by lowbies. lol. creative solution, we'll have to see how it works
3) Sounds like unlike having only 4 instanced "BGs" they have hundreds, and then also have open world PVP and open world objectives, so I imagine it will have enough variety to keep it interesting.
4) not intentionally
5) sounds like they are with the public quests and regular questing. I've heard they are having at least one "dungeon" raid type of deal per race
6) lots of PVP, city sieging, probably a few raids/dungeons, but mostly PVP
My only hope is that they allow you to "cap" your ranking (level) so you can keep a character in each of the 4 tiers. Like after a city siege, after the whole war "resets" I hope you can have capped characters for the first 3 tiers so you can go back and help win victory points for that tier, because as we all know victory points from lower tiers help towards the tiers above them.
A new problem has arisen for me. Damage to healing ratios in this game. It seems quite unbalanced. I see DDs doing 100-200 on average and heals going for 2-2.5k....watch the video
stage6.divx.com/user/Arachneron/video/1497061/enLightens-at-the-Gameday-2007-in-Cologne
another thread ruined by lore arguments. sigh.
LOL good one.
PvP
If I have short ammounts of time to play will I still have fun or will it feel like daoc in the sense that I wont be able to accomplish "MUCH" because I simply dont have enough time.
2nd concern with pvp and this at one time was a heated topic...using abilities while moving.
Now I dont think WoW has a perfect system by any means but I still like to see movement, and while I loved the pvp of daoc, pvp vids still look a bit stagnant imo.
Yup, you heard me, good.
PvP in most MMOs right now *coughWOWcough* is all about burst damage. Hitting someone hard and fast with DDS so quick there's no chance to recover. The ratio here will force people to use tactics to win. Interrupts, slows, stuns, kiting, things like that. A battle will be about more than "you attack Mage0001221. Mage0001221 hits you with pyroblast for 6000000000 dmg. You are pwned."