Blizzard did "nothing" new, all it did was take ideas from Everquest and refined it. That all WoW is. WoW isnt anything special, the reason why it did so well was becaue it was based on a successful video game franchise and had a great launch. That combined with other traditional carrot on a stick MMO elements allowed the fanbase to stay hooked while pulling people in.
So by that definition LotR online will be the biggest game in the next couple of decades right?
WoW is the definition of an MMO to the vast majority of our wonderull world. It changed the way people think about MMO's, people don't need to go to the back alley when talking about it like they did with EQ1 or AC in case anyone hears it. It brought mass appeal to MMO's in the same way that the Beatles, RS and Nirvana started revolutions in the music industry. You're just in denial to accept it
No, LOTRO was based on LOTR but didnt have an existing game franchise to build it on. Plus Turbine isnt the same company as Blizzard. In addition, LOTRO is in direct competition with WoW becaue of the PvE central themes of it; and it loses since WoW is a superior game in that department.
WoW made no revolutions - all it did was bring more people into MMORPGS.
Something that's true and it is and was aknowledged by most players and reviewers from WoW's release: It's a good game and a polished game, but not an innovative one.
People think every game since WoW is copying it, that's just not true. WoW took good features from different MMOs and combined them into one game.
WoW made no revolutions - all it did was bring more people into MMORPGS.
Ah, so 9 Million subscribers is just a few more people into the MMO world. In the same way that bringing the Berlin wall down was just a few weirdos with hammers taking a wall down, or the Beatles selling a few records in America.
Originally posted by alex-core Originally posted by Swiftblade13 7) WAR's humor is more british.
thank god for that atleast that is humor compered to american humor.. just take a look at american funniest home videos, enough sayd!
As an american, I can firmly say we are not responsible for that. That show was created by an underground terrorist organization created to promote the image that americans have no sense of humor. <cough>
WoW made no revolutions - all it did was bring more people into MMORPGS.
Ah, so 9 Million subscribers is just a few more people into the MMO world. In the same way that bringing the Berlin wall down was just a few weirdos with hammers taking a wall down, or the Beatles selling a few records in America.
Because those 9 million NEVER played another MMO at all. I would say they added about two to three million who never played an MMO.
Most of those 9 million are,asian cafe accounts, and/or kids that watched their parents play Eq,daoc and UO....or/and people that didnt come into the mmorpg market until WoW distribution made it apparent to people that finally said: HEY!..online gaming!??..lets try now that we have cable and a decent comp~!
mass distribution can sell Refrigerators to Eskimo's!
mheh
------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------ <insert gloat of ubar toon here> <insert random game here> <insert gloat of ubar toon here> <insert gloat of ubar toon here> <insert random game here> --------------------------- <insert witty anecdote here> <political/religious agenda here>
Ok there is some common misconceptions I have seen in this thread, along with some information that is no longer accurate.
+City sieges are no longer instance, they did away with the breaching the front gates scenarios.
+There will now only be 30 scenarios at launch, 10 per pairing.
+WAR will not have a queueing system like WoW, the scenarios are not always open, they open and close depending on the war front.
+All the PvP is not instanced, it is IMPOSSIBLE to get to an enemys capital city only through instances. While a zones majority of Victory Points may come from scenarios they also MUST come from various other sources, including world PvP.
+Of course in the beginning WAR is going to play similar to WOW, its the best way to get people into the game. Seriously how many average players read a manual?
+Honestly I dont see the point, after the learning curve in my first MMO, DAoC, I easily picked up and played any MMO I tried after that.
+WoW graphics are cartoony, WAR graphics are Warhammer stylized but not cartoony. They actually look more along the lines of an updated stylized DAoC.
+They have stated time and again they are not trying to compete with WoW, and that it would not only be foolish but suicide to do so.
+They have a goal and vision for their game and they are going to make it, not matter what WoW does. Not to mention at their cores they are vastly different games. I would consider WAR to be a DAoC 2(with lessons learned), however they have stated its not DAoC 2 either as the design philosphy and goals are different than they were in DAoC.
While the 2 games will constantly be compared it does not mean that they are as similar as people need, want, or desire them to be. They are 2 different games, made by 2 very different companies, with 2 very different backgrounds, with 2 very different goals in mind. Mythic has stated already that certain things are going into the game if you dont like it then WAR will not be the game for you. Blizzard would never say that, they will always try to make every one happy. Also the bulk of the 9 million subscribers are Asian, hate to break it to you fanboys, but the end game is very asia playstyle friendly.
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
""">>>>...+WoW graphics are cartoony, WAR graphics are Warhammer stylized but not cartoony. They actually look more along the lines of an updated stylized DAoC....<<<<"""
Yes..i noticed the WAR graphics are the same they had on Warhammeronline.net over 3-4 years ago..( the site was purchased by mythic coupel years back, and it has since been a .com site)...Im glad Mythic and EA didnt change the original concept and finished models they had going soo, so long ago.( the site came up ,right after the time DAOC was released to the public)
this was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before WoW was even a panty stain on ANY Blizzard dev's mind.
oh..did i mention...w-a-a-a-y before?
but i need not mention that: because everyone online (that games and follows mmorpgs) knows that anyway...they were all posting the art 1-2 years before Blizaard even made any type of announcement they were even interested in the 3d mmorpg market.
------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------ <insert gloat of ubar toon here> <insert random game here> <insert gloat of ubar toon here> <insert gloat of ubar toon here> <insert random game here> --------------------------- <insert witty anecdote here> <political/religious agenda here>
Since half my WAR threads get derailed into this topic, here is a topic just for arguing about this. Comparing any new MMO to WoW is inevitable, comparing WAR to WOW is even less avoidable as it has many VERY strong similarities. Just because you hate WoW doesnt mean you will hate WAR for its similarities... it is after all a very different game in some ways.
Similarities: 1) On a base level WAR plays exactly like WoW. If you have played WoW the learning curve in the first 10 minutes of play is ZERO.. you already know how to do everything. This is also true of LOTRO, every other mmo I've played had more differences in the interface. 2) The graphics are definitely reminiscent of WoW. It looks like WoW two. Character models are unique, the world looks like a much updated and higher detailed WoW. Yes, this is because Blizz ripped off Warhammers world may years ago.. yada yada yada.... it still bears comparison. 3) Combat feels like WoW. To me LOTRO combat and WoW combat feel pretty different..... I was told by someone who played the demo that WAR combat (as a newbie at least) feels EXACTLY like WoW combat... not like EQ2, not like DAOC.. like WoW. 4) WoW is immensely successful, and WAR will be (though probably not AS successful).
Differences: 1) WAR has much deeper lore. 2) WAR is PvP-centric and focuses on RvR. 3) WAR PvP will be meaningful and probably require more skill. 4) WAR includes innovative new ideas not found in any other MMO such as public quests. 5) WAR will borrow many successful features and ideas from DAOC. 6) WAR's art style is slightly less cartoony and more fantastic. 7) WAR's humor is more british.
flame away
The first warcraft (not the rpg, the RTS) remembers a lot about warhammer, almost, I thought, in its time, that it was the warhammer game. So think that blizzard did a copy/paste from warhamer.
Anyway, this world was modified and exported to an rpg/action massive online game. This games was a "mix" of other succeful aspect of other games (think most of l2 than any other one).
And what I think about war? war seems to follow the same idea: they want to use the succeful part of other mmorpg and apply it to one game.
They dont want to innovate, as wow didnt did it too. (if you compare and old game like l2, or ultima online to WoW you will understand this). This dont means that the game will not be succeful. So what it seems it that war will take the core of wow and other succeful games (like daoc, wow...) and mix it in one game, so, the comparision is innevitable: So the most similar thing of this two games, above graphics and playstile, it resides in the concept, the engine and the idea of the game.
remember..wow "TOOK" the battelground from Mythic's daoc..and added it to elements that were already proven in eq and others of the like .
WAR.....chose Mythic to implement their game using Mythics Proven DAOC style of gameplay. Battlegrounds and Warzones basically.( and yes..seige was first in daoc, to the extent of using for largescale battles...not some instance in EQ1 where you have a dwarf operate it for you, for the sake of opening a gate that you walk by and leave behind anyway)
so its like that coca cola commercial on tv...where coke clasic wants to sue diet coke for tasting so good!...the lawyer they hire just 'looks' at them funny and says.."er..um...Ya, er..I dont know if a company can sue itself"...
i look at people making that same arguement, with the same look...mheh..
------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------ <insert gloat of ubar toon here> <insert random game here> <insert gloat of ubar toon here> <insert gloat of ubar toon here> <insert random game here> --------------------------- <insert witty anecdote here> <political/religious agenda here>
Another easy mode game... Developers need to realize that copying WoW won't make them money because WoW already has the market. To steal subscribers from WoW they need to do something different that WoW doesn't offer. I doubt WAR or LOTRO will be very successful. What we need is a Shadowbane 2 or something like that.
LOL are you kidding? Rumor is that LOTRO is already very successful (and I personally found it boring).... if the rumored sub numbers are true I think it is now the second most successful north american MMO in history......
I am very cynical and doubt everyone and everything, but I think WAR has an excellent shot at far outselling LOTRO and becoming second to WoW in the non-asian markets. WAR takes all the best of WoW, and adds RvR pvp and city seiges........ its going to be huge.
Grymm MMO addict in recovery! EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH, Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!
"Create history and forever change it?" Nothing against WoW, but c'mon. Would you describe Britney Spears as forever changing history simply because she has sold millions of records? Not to minimize her achievements, but on an artistic, compelling level, she has a very limited range. Many people feel the same way about Blizzard. WoW introduced the MMORPG to a wide, mainstream audience which is a significant accomplishment within our little genre (MMORPGs) but if we look at the actual content of the game, there's nothing earth shattering there. A solid, well put-together game, IMHO, but what about WoW itself do you think will go down in the annals of MMORPG history besides turning the multiplayer, online RPG from a niche genre into a pop culture phenomenon? I've always argued that Blizzard is an amazing business model, but as developers they can be somewhat flat and unoriginal.
This is so much true I couldn't describe it better.
you are both missing something here.....
If Britney was the first pop artist to EVER sell a million copies she would have accomplished something...... given the fact that pop artists have been selling millions of copies for many years... she is just one more name to add to a VERY long list.
Your point is therefore invalid.
Grymm MMO addict in recovery! EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH, Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!
all i see anymore is trash talk, we argue over these games like it was some gang we are in, its freaking stuiped honestly and i get caught up in it also.
but it's fun, isn't it?
That'd what I'm saying, the next (so called) gen game(s) need to incorporate way more social elements and skills into the gameplay.
btw, WAR is aiming at WoW crowd, but only at PVP part of it, and that's a slice!
Originally posted by Paragus1
90% of you guys reciting the WAR PR should change your forum icon to a pair of ass cheeks, because unless posters are breaking the NDA you are all talking out your ass. Face the fact that nobody knows anything. Claiming you can PvP from the beginning, claiming at it is not an item grind, and all other such nonsense is baseless. I'm sick to death of reading the spin from Paul Barnett sock-puppet-posters.
Haha, you said it so nicely.
oh, oh, oh... one more thing, BLIZZARD made WoW, and we all know, if you wanna do something right, do it yourself!
And what I think about war? war seems to follow the same idea: they want to use the succeful part of other mmorpg and apply it to one game. They dont want to innovate, as wow didnt did it too. (if you compare and old game like l2, or ultima online to WoW you will understand this). This dont means that the game will not be succeful. So what it seems it that war will take the core of wow and other succeful games (like daoc, wow...) and mix it in one game, so, the comparision is innevitable: So the most similar thing of this two games, above graphics and playstile, it resides in the concept, the engine and the idea of the game.
Just a few points here.
1) World quests and tome of knowledge are both unique concepts to WAR.
2) moral system seems to be unique (can't confirm until it is finalized)
3) Tactics abilities are a mostly unique concept. You get to choose 18 out of 30 but even fully maxed at end game you can only equip 7 traits at a time.
Is the whole game a unique concept no... but there are definitely unique concepts not found in any other MMO. They took the best things from other games, added some unique elements, and visualized a great IP with warhammer. I don't think people can ask more from a development company.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
I doubt War is gonna do as well as everybody thinks, sure theres a few hardcore pvp fans who are hyping it but so far it doesnt seem to add much to the table for average gamers. Fury didnt do well, rakion didnt do well, what makes this game any different?
We already know the quests are kill 10 bear type quests, theres gonna be less raid content, its just gonna be a big pvp mess.
I doubt War is gonna do as well as everybody thinks, sure theres a few hardcore pvp fans who are hyping it but so far it doesnt seem to add much to the table for average gamers. Fury didnt do well, rakion didnt do well, what makes this game any different?
We already know the quests are kill 10 bear type quests, theres gonna be less raid content, its just gonna be a big pvp mess.
Glad you could take a break from bashing every game on these boards except DF and AoC. You think WAR will not do well but you think DF will be a quality game? LMAO... thanks for the laugh.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
WAR will do at least as well as WoW in terms of subscriptions simply because they are releasing in all parts of Asia including Japan. You could release an MMO where the goal is to scoop dog turds and you'd have 6 million subscribers.
I doubt War is gonna do as well as everybody thinks, sure theres a few hardcore pvp fans who are hyping it but so far it doesnt seem to add much to the table for average gamers. Fury didnt do well, rakion didnt do well, what makes this game any different?
Comments
WoW is the definition of an MMO to the vast majority of our wonderull world. It changed the way people think about MMO's, people don't need to go to the back alley when talking about it like they did with EQ1 or AC in case anyone hears it. It brought mass appeal to MMO's in the same way that the Beatles, RS and Nirvana started revolutions in the music industry. You're just in denial to accept it
No, LOTRO was based on LOTR but didnt have an existing game franchise to build it on. Plus Turbine isnt the same company as Blizzard. In addition, LOTRO is in direct competition with WoW becaue of the PvE central themes of it; and it loses since WoW is a superior game in that department.
WoW made no revolutions - all it did was bring more people into MMORPGS.
Something that's true and it is and was aknowledged by most players and reviewers from WoW's release: It's a good game and a polished game, but not an innovative one.
People think every game since WoW is copying it, that's just not true. WoW took good features from different MMOs and combined them into one game.
Ah, so 9 Million subscribers is just a few more people into the MMO world. In the same way that bringing the Berlin wall down was just a few weirdos with hammers taking a wall down, or the Beatles selling a few records in America.
just take a look at american funniest home videos, enough sayd!
As an american, I can firmly say we are not responsible for that. That show was created by an underground terrorist organization created to promote the image that americans have no sense of humor. <cough>
D.
C'mon now....you dont laugh at some unsuspecting dad taking a 9 iron to the nutterz?
a traffic cop getting his pants pulled down by people crossing the busy intersection??
a cat hiding in the bushes and springs up and attacks a 2year old, knocking him over!?
hey wait...of course you all laugh at them...99.999999% of any funny vid posted from youtube,google or funnystuff websites.....Are from AFV's!.
now as far as the shows commentary and hosts go.....hang em all.
the writers too.
(goto google vids and type in Lady Punch.)<------luv that one.....you can hear the nose going crunch!
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<insert gloat of ubar toon here>
<insert random game here>
<insert gloat of ubar toon here>
<insert gloat of ubar toon here>
<insert random game here>
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<insert witty anecdote here>
<political/religious agenda here>
its been discussed before. yes they are similar but war looks to be the better game. it has GOOD pvp.
Ah, so 9 Million subscribers is just a few more people into the MMO world. In the same way that bringing the Berlin wall down was just a few weirdos with hammers taking a wall down, or the Beatles selling a few records in America.
Because those 9 million NEVER played another MMO at all. I would say they added about two to three million who never played an MMO.
Most of those 9 million are,asian cafe accounts, and/or kids that watched their parents play Eq,daoc and UO....or/and people that didnt come into the mmorpg market until WoW distribution made it apparent to people that finally said: HEY!..online gaming!??..lets try now that we have cable and a decent comp~!
mass distribution can sell Refrigerators to Eskimo's!
mheh
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------------------------------------------------------------------
<insert gloat of ubar toon here>
<insert random game here>
<insert gloat of ubar toon here>
<insert gloat of ubar toon here>
<insert random game here>
---------------------------
<insert witty anecdote here>
<political/religious agenda here>
Ok there is some common misconceptions I have seen in this thread, along with some information that is no longer accurate.
+City sieges are no longer instance, they did away with the breaching the front gates scenarios.
+There will now only be 30 scenarios at launch, 10 per pairing.
+WAR will not have a queueing system like WoW, the scenarios are not always open, they open and close depending on the war front.
+All the PvP is not instanced, it is IMPOSSIBLE to get to an enemys capital city only through instances. While a zones majority of Victory Points may come from scenarios they also MUST come from various other sources, including world PvP.
+Of course in the beginning WAR is going to play similar to WOW, its the best way to get people into the game. Seriously how many average players read a manual?
+Honestly I dont see the point, after the learning curve in my first MMO, DAoC, I easily picked up and played any MMO I tried after that.
+WoW graphics are cartoony, WAR graphics are Warhammer stylized but not cartoony. They actually look more along the lines of an updated stylized DAoC.
+They have stated time and again they are not trying to compete with WoW, and that it would not only be foolish but suicide to do so.
+They have a goal and vision for their game and they are going to make it, not matter what WoW does. Not to mention at their cores they are vastly different games. I would consider WAR to be a DAoC 2(with lessons learned), however they have stated its not DAoC 2 either as the design philosphy and goals are different than they were in DAoC.
While the 2 games will constantly be compared it does not mean that they are as similar as people need, want, or desire them to be. They are 2 different games, made by 2 very different companies, with 2 very different backgrounds, with 2 very different goals in mind. Mythic has stated already that certain things are going into the game if you dont like it then WAR will not be the game for you. Blizzard would never say that, they will always try to make every one happy. Also the bulk of the 9 million subscribers are Asian, hate to break it to you fanboys, but the end game is very asia playstyle friendly.
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
""">>>>...+WoW graphics are cartoony, WAR graphics are Warhammer stylized but not cartoony. They actually look more along the lines of an updated stylized DAoC....<<<<"""
Yes..i noticed the WAR graphics are the same they had on Warhammeronline.net over 3-4 years ago..( the site was purchased by mythic coupel years back, and it has since been a .com site)...Im glad Mythic and EA didnt change the original concept and finished models they had going soo, so long ago.( the site came up ,right after the time DAOC was released to the public)
this was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before WoW was even a panty stain on ANY Blizzard dev's mind.
oh..did i mention...w-a-a-a-y before?
but i need not mention that: because everyone online (that games and follows mmorpgs) knows that anyway...they were all posting the art 1-2 years before Blizaard even made any type of announcement they were even interested in the 3d mmorpg market.
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------------------------------------------------------------------
<insert gloat of ubar toon here>
<insert random game here>
<insert gloat of ubar toon here>
<insert gloat of ubar toon here>
<insert random game here>
---------------------------
<insert witty anecdote here>
<political/religious agenda here>
The first warcraft (not the rpg, the RTS) remembers a lot about warhammer, almost, I thought, in its time, that it was the warhammer game. So think that blizzard did a copy/paste from warhamer.
Anyway, this world was modified and exported to an rpg/action massive online game. This games was a "mix" of other succeful aspect of other games (think most of l2 than any other one).
And what I think about war? war seems to follow the same idea: they want to use the succeful part of other mmorpg and apply it to one game.
They dont want to innovate, as wow didnt did it too. (if you compare and old game like l2, or ultima online to WoW you will understand this). This dont means that the game will not be succeful. So what it seems it that war will take the core of wow and other succeful games (like daoc, wow...) and mix it in one game, so, the comparision is innevitable: So the most similar thing of this two games, above graphics and playstile, it resides in the concept, the engine and the idea of the game.
remember..wow "TOOK" the battelground from Mythic's daoc..and added it to elements that were already proven in eq and others of the like .
WAR.....chose Mythic to implement their game using Mythics Proven DAOC style of gameplay. Battlegrounds and Warzones basically.( and yes..seige was first in daoc, to the extent of using for largescale battles...not some instance in EQ1 where you have a dwarf operate it for you, for the sake of opening a gate that you walk by and leave behind anyway)
so its like that coca cola commercial on tv...where coke clasic wants to sue diet coke for tasting so good!...the lawyer they hire just 'looks' at them funny and says.."er..um...Ya, er..I dont know if a company can sue itself"...
i look at people making that same arguement, with the same look...mheh..
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<insert gloat of ubar toon here>
<insert random game here>
<insert gloat of ubar toon here>
<insert gloat of ubar toon here>
<insert random game here>
---------------------------
<insert witty anecdote here>
<political/religious agenda here>
I am very cynical and doubt everyone and everything, but I think WAR has an excellent shot at far outselling LOTRO and becoming second to WoW in the non-asian markets. WAR takes all the best of WoW, and adds RvR pvp and city seiges........ its going to be huge.
Grymm
MMO addict in recovery!
EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH,
Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!
This is so much true I couldn't describe it better.
you are both missing something here.....
If Britney was the first pop artist to EVER sell a million copies she would have accomplished something...... given the fact that pop artists have been selling millions of copies for many years... she is just one more name to add to a VERY long list.
Your point is therefore invalid.
Grymm
MMO addict in recovery!
EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH,
Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!
but it's fun, isn't it?
That'd what I'm saying, the next (so called) gen game(s) need to incorporate way more social elements and skills into the gameplay.
btw, WAR is aiming at WoW crowd, but only at PVP part of it, and that's a slice!
Haha, you said it so nicely.
oh, oh, oh... one more thing, BLIZZARD made WoW, and we all know, if you wanna do something right, do it yourself!
1) World quests and tome of knowledge are both unique concepts to WAR.
2) moral system seems to be unique (can't confirm until it is finalized)
3) Tactics abilities are a mostly unique concept. You get to choose 18 out of 30 but even fully maxed at end game you can only equip 7 traits at a time.
Is the whole game a unique concept no... but there are definitely unique concepts not found in any other MMO. They took the best things from other games, added some unique elements, and visualized a great IP with warhammer. I don't think people can ask more from a development company.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
I doubt War is gonna do as well as everybody thinks, sure theres a few hardcore pvp fans who are hyping it but so far it doesnt seem to add much to the table for average gamers. Fury didnt do well, rakion didnt do well, what makes this game any different?
We already know the quests are kill 10 bear type quests, theres gonna be less raid content, its just gonna be a big pvp mess.
Glad you could take a break from bashing every game on these boards except DF and AoC. You think WAR will not do well but you think DF will be a quality game? LMAO... thanks for the laugh.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
WAR will do at least as well as WoW in terms of subscriptions simply because they are releasing in all parts of Asia including Japan. You could release an MMO where the goal is to scoop dog turds and you'd have 6 million subscribers.
Because it's not hard core PVP it's carebear PVP.