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spin doctoring sinks to new low
ArcAngel3
Member Posts: 2,931
I used to read a lot of posts that called SWG vets "crybabies" when we expressed frustration over SOE's treatment of its playerbase. Now I'm reading posts from different SOE defenders saying that SWG vets are mentally ill, in need of therapy, or different variations of the same theme. This seems to be a new trend cropping up on these forums, and it's not a welcome one in my view.
First of all, telling others that they are mentally ill, is just using slightly bigger words than "crybaby" to insult and try to silence them. It is in my view more offensive though to act as if you're qualified to assess someone's mental health status by reading a post they've made on a game forum.
It is possible for people to develop game-playing habits that are detrimental to other, more important aspects of their lives. I'm not dismissing this fact. It doesn't hurt to periodically review your life--time invested in family, work, exercise, education, hobbies (from gardening to videogames) etc.--to ensure that there is a healthy balance.
Becoming emotionally invested in online friendships, communities and a sense of accomplishment in a virtual environment, however, are not signs of illness. This kind of investment is fostered by most games, and is one reason they are so appealing. Feeling upset when a company intentionally misleads you and leaves you with a broken service in place of the functional one that was advertised and paid for is also not a sign of illness. In fact it indicates good reality testing. People that try to pathologize this are really uninformed at best, and maliciously manipulative at worst. Using big words doesn't make name-calling accurate or any more mature.
Comments
I'm proud to be a mentaly ill member of the Cabal that is still frustrated, and appalled by the treatment of $OE to it's former playerbase.
Happily my therapist recomended EVE to release my frustrations upon others in a safe and controlled manner. When I 'gank' anyone there, and they ask why I can happily say The voices in my head said they are a $OE plant.
It's all gaming forums, your opinoin isn't mine, so I'm a attack you to defend my point of view!!1one1 I'm sure most are tired of the pre-NGE player, post-NGE player arguement, but it still is going strong. I strongly doubt anyone will 'get over it' anytime soon. I'm sure Smedley and company are waiting it'll all get swept under the rug, and forgotten so they can do it again when it suits them.
Mankind is not limited by imagination, but the courage to reach....
I hear you on that one Arc, I'm sick of idiots who insult the vets including me for hating SOE too, I don't care what they think too, I'm just going to keep on ignoring them and post what I please, this is the internet, literally the only place where free speech actually exists, no one has any damn right at all to insult us for saying the facts, if it weren't for us, people would still be believing the rubbish and lies that SOE constantly throw at people to this day, though sadly it seems there are a few stubborn ones out there who think they're better than everyone else, but that's not my problem, I'll continue my boycott of any company that I think is not up to my standards, I've even moved onto Blizzard now, after what happened with WoW I just won't touch any of their games anymore, Starcraft 2 looks the least bit inviting to me anyway.
Quoting people doesn't make you clever, in fact, it makes you all the more stupid for not bothering to read the quotes you post in the first place.
i wonder (but doubt very much) if anyone attended therapy after NGE...would be interesting to find out
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
The bigger problem here is that some of the wanna-be vets seem to not be able to handle the truth as we continue to be insulted as we who like the game are sad or idiots as some of you state it, if some of the "VETS" truly tried to be honst and not misleading we could have normal discussion without both sides insulting eachother, you see i am man enough to say YES i 2 insult at times people, but most of the disgrunted vets here only care about themself and arn't even mature enough to give in when a mistake is made. Some feel that everything they say is law, Ignorance is the biggest probelm on this forum and unfortunaly we wil continue to see this amount of ignorance as ignorant people seem not to be able to see it themself. Proof, just look at this side of the forums and look at this topic. Again proof of someone only reading what he wants to read without actualy understanding what some people say on this side. Don't get me wrong i do not like it to insult people nor do i like it to be insulted, but if the OP was being honost he would not have made this topic in the first place.
Really its sad that we have people in mmorpg like that, best would be if some of them got a life as honosty everyone can admit that if one is so fedup with SWG and continues to hate SWG then we all know they really need help, and this is not a insult but this is in the best intrest of such person, such person just simply has to look at his life and i bet most of hte haters are so missirible in life itself they found way's to vent even if its a game.
Now if some of you please get your act together or atleast become mature enough to handle things that suck in life, else life wil be very sad for most of you disgrunted vets.
This is something completly different then "get a life post", the problem you see is people twisting words into something it is not, sure it might sound harsh parts of what i said, but getting your act together has for me a totaly different meaning then when someone would say "get a life"
I have to agree that some people do take it a bit to far, I can understand Vets who correct any thing being said incorrectly about the original game when someone states NGE was this blah blah and pre-cu suxors etc. However there isn't the need to constantly go on about how SOE did this to SWG and that etc, as it has been 2 odd years. The thing we as in Vets should have taken on board from this experience as I did, which is SOE has sh** customer service and can't develope or maintain a MMORPG to any great degree and they have continued to show this with such games as Vanguard, Matrix Online etc. So just learn to avoid them in the future and play something you enjoy no need to take anything personally but the anger felt towards SOE is understandable.
Water cooled Intel Corei7 920 D0 Stepping OC'd 4.3GHz - 6GB Corsair Dominator GT RAM 2000Mhz - ASUS RAGE II EXTREME X58 Mobo - 2x HD 5870 in Crossfire X, OC'd 0.9Ghz core 1.3Ghz RAM - Dell 2407WFP Flat Panel LCD 24" 1920x1200
A phenomenon that was noted at t he time of the NGE was that players were doing something that was not seen in an MMO before.
They were creating graveyards for their toons.
Many were also contemplating wrongful death action against the speeding (on crack) truck that hit them and put them in the graveyard.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
I honestly believe that there are some PAID SOE trolls luring these and other forums. They probably require GreyNoob and some of his cohorts to go out and shill for the NGE and troll the disgruntled vets.
Given that SOE themselves accused several of us (myself among them) of being paid by SOE competitors (this is not true btw) to bash them and the NGE leads me to believe that they do engage in the practice themselves.
usually $OE .. grieve and harass people.
becaue they can't sell their product of mentally ill's minds they hire people to grieve and mute gentle gamers on boards and believe they could sell their NGE better.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
They certainly bought Fish (paid weekend in Vegas) and he is now their biggest fanboi. He hadn't posted on these forums in a long time until he got back from that trip. Now all we hear is how good the game is getting and how fun it is now...
LMAO.
I have been playing SWG since pre-cu, and still play it today. Now, before one side or the other start bashing me, I would like to state that I am not on either of your sides. I do not agree with the Vets that the game is a complete piece of unsalvagable crap, and I do not agree with the NGE lovers that the game is better than its ever been. I believe a balance needs to be struck between the two extremes, and I have seen a slow progression to this vision. Lately it seems they (SOE) have been gradually bringing back some of the content from the original SWG, that a lot of people have been upset about since the NGE launched. On the other hand, the game is still buggy/laggy as hell at times, and correct me if I'm wrong, but a server merge is desperately in order. So instead of fighting amongst each other, let's all (Vets and NGE players) bombard SOE with the same passion and vigor that we harass each other.
the guilty always accuse...... soe has viral marketers on most sites downplaying the damage their stupidity has caused.
The bigger problem here is that some of the wanna-be vets seem to not be able to handle the truth as we continue to be insulted as we who like the game are sad or idiots as some of you state it, if some of the "VETS" truly tried to be honst and not misleading we could have normal discussion without both sides insulting eachother, you see i am man enough to say YES i 2 insult at times people, but most of the disgrunted vets here only care about themself and arn't even mature enough to give in when a mistake is made. Some feel that everything they say is law, Ignorance is the biggest probelm on this forum and unfortunaly we wil continue to see this amount of ignorance as ignorant people seem not to be able to see it themself. Proof, just look at this side of the forums and look at this topic. Again proof of someone only reading what he wants to read without actualy understanding what some people say on this side. Don't get me wrong i do not like it to insult people nor do i like it to be insulted, but if the OP was being honost he would not have made this topic in the first place.
Really its sad that we have people in mmorpg like that, best would be if some of them got a life as honosty everyone can admit that if one is so fedup with SWG and continues to hate SWG then we all know they really need help, and this is not a insult but this is in the best intrest of such person, such person just simply has to look at his life and i bet most of hte haters are so missirible in life itself they found way's to vent even if its a game.
Now if some of you please get your act together or atleast become mature enough to handle things that suck in life, else life wil be very sad for most of you disgrunted vets.
I'm going to do you a favor and go really light on you. While I agree with part of what you are implying (aka: people are at each others necks alot on these forums) the main jist of your post seemed like a "you all need to get a life post". You just tried to be discreet about it. So... what "I" really belive is people that say "go get a life" are in the wrong forum, they really need to see what this little section of the forums are for (you all need to look up the definition of refuge some time). Furthermore since we are in a nice civilized "tone" I'd like to point out the fact that these individuals are "part of the problem" with the industry today.
Why you ask? Simple really. Due to the fact that they let a gaming company run all over them opens the door for other companies to do it as well becuase they see they can. "Why make better video games when we can offer up crap and they pay for it?" Or more in this case, "Why offer fanatical customer service when we can screw them over in attempt to get a piece of another mmos pie? And do it over and over and over, switching 'focus' groups as we do."
So you see, people coming in here saying to get a life really are not solving anything; they are just adding to the problem, and looking damn ignorant real fast as they do it.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
"A place for disgruntled former and current SWG players to talk about the game that was and the game that now is, as well as for newcomers who are curious about the issues surrounding the changes that this game has undergone."
Pretty much all encompassing as to who can be/post here.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
Keyword "Disgruntled. Then in addition newer players that want to see what changes this game has undergone.
So in its entirety: People that are pissed about SWG and its changes, and the newer players that want to see what the game was like back then and/or why we are so pissed about it.
I don't see "also kiddies that state 'get a life'"
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
Pretty much Baron,Keyword "Disgruntled. Then in addition newer players that want to see what changes this game has undergone.
So in its entirety: People that are pissed about SWG and its changes, and the newer players that want to see what the game was like back then and/or why we are so pissed about it.
I don't see "also kiddies that state 'get a life'"
You forgot "and current SWG players" after the disgruntled former ones. So former disgruntled, current players and new folks that want to see what the game was like then, etc etc etc.
As far as the "get a life" kids.... well those are found on both sides of the spectrum here.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
And the point of this is what?
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Other parts of Sony have been caught having employees pose as bloggers, reviewers, etc, so it's not hard to jump to the conclusion that SOE does this.
Why the desperation shilling?
Simple. SOE is a failing part of a failing company that is fighting for it's life. They haven't had a product success in years, and their prospects for future hits are bleak.
And the point of this is what?
From three posts above:
"Pretty much all encompassing as to who can be/post here."
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
You will NEVER see the moderators of this site enforce that against the "get a life" trollers who berate us here. I've not once seen one of their posts locked/deleted. There is a troll posted by one of them that's been running for months.
Keyword "Disgruntled. Then in addition newer players that want to see what changes this game has undergone.
So in its entirety: People that are pissed about SWG and its changes, and the newer players that want to see what the game was like back then and/or why we are so pissed about it.
I don't see "also kiddies that state 'get a life'"
You forgot "and current SWG players" after the disgruntled former ones. So former disgruntled, current players and new folks that want to see what the game was like then, etc etc etc.
As far as the "get a life" kids.... well those are found on both sides of the spectrum here.
People can read what they want but the sentence structure is clear.
"A place for disgruntled former and current SWG players to talk about the game that was and the game that now is, as well as for newcomers who are curious about the issues surrounding the changes that this game has undergone. *Note, MMORPG.com RoC will still be enforced."
"Disgruntled former and current swg players." In this sentence disgruntled is tacked onto former AND current, not just former. As its sentence structure clearly dictates. So not just current swg players, but disgruntled ones. Please remember that there are still disgruntled people playing the game, they are simply there for thier own reasons such as friends, guilds etc.
So in essence, this part of the forum (the refuge) is mainly for the disgruntled people to discuss why the game was a failure, etc. Not for people from the current player forums to come over and state "get a life"
Any mod would agree with me.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
the guilty always accuse...... soe has viral marketers on most sites downplaying the damage their stupidity has caused.Other parts of Sony have been caught having employees pose as bloggers, reviewers, etc, so it's not hard to jump to the conclusion that SOE does this.
Why the desperation shilling?
Simple. SOE is a failing part of a failing company that is fighting for it's life. They haven't had a product success in years, and their prospects for future hits are bleak.
The phenomenon of corporate employees posing as "regutar posters" and spinning for their employers is hardly new. Microsoft has been doing it for years. Political forums are regularly infiltrated by high ranking individuals working for campaigns to push their employer's agenda, or attempt to anonymously slime their candidate's opponent. Recently it's been revealed that corporate PR types have been editing Wiki articles, attempting to remove information that their corporation dosn't want out there.
So all these postings need to be scrutinized by the reader.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Keyword "Disgruntled. Then in addition newer players that want to see what changes this game has undergone.
So in its entirety: People that are pissed about SWG and its changes, and the newer players that want to see what the game was like back then and/or why we are so pissed about it.
I don't see "also kiddies that state 'get a life'"
You forgot "and current SWG players" after the disgruntled former ones. So former disgruntled, current players and new folks that want to see what the game was like then, etc etc etc.
As far as the "get a life" kids.... well those are found on both sides of the spectrum here.
People can read what they want but the sentence structure is clear.
"A place for disgruntled former and current SWG players to talk about the game that was and the game that now is, as well as for newcomers who are curious about the issues surrounding the changes that this game has undergone. *Note, MMORPG.com RoC will still be enforced."
"Disgruntled former and current swg players." In this sentence disgruntled is tacked onto former AND current, not just former. As its sentence structure clearly dictates. So not just current swg players, but disgruntled ones. Please remember that there are still disgruntled people playing the game, they are simply there for thier own reasons such as friends, guilds etc.
So in essence, this part of the forum (the refuge) is mainly for the disgruntled people to discuss why the game was a failure, etc. Not for people from the current player forums to come over and state "get a life"
Any mod would agree with me.
I agree about the disgruntled portion, hell I was/am one. I went back for a time but I have closed up shop. As far as the "get a life" players that do that on either side should have their posts reported for mods to consider for deletion. Yet as I go back and look at players that folks get spun up over I see time and again that the post was never reported on. If you never report them then you can't complain about no action being taken. If you think that the mod are biased then why on earth stay at a site like that?
Look, i am simpathetic to the disgruntled crowd, but only to a point. I have seen this same senario happen when Earth and Beyond was closed. Folks decrying the company, threatening to sue, calling everything they do after the closure a failure, swearing to never buy EA games again. There are still calls and petitions to get E&B back (I signed one last year), but the fact is nothing is going to happen unless EA see's it as a financial gain, and for now, they don't. Same with SOE. They are not going to loose this battle. Sure, some folks wil swear off SOE games and we will hear stories of what SOE "did to them" for years to come...but the fact is theya re gaining games now, not loosing. hell this next year alone will be the biggest expansion for them . Vanguard, G&H, POTBS, the Agency, Legends of Norrath. then they have the DC comics MMO and Free World opening up later on and talks of other games signing on. They will have the entire genre covered.
If you want to be angry, fine, be angry. But focus that annger into something productive instead of the petty name crap and "Nu uh your lying" little kids do.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
Just my two cents.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
I wasn't singling you Archeus Cross. My apologies if it appeared I was directing it to solely you. I was merely using your last post for a general statement to the crowd.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
I know it would seem like that but...............
I looked at the thread that He and I used to, well for lack of a better word, troll. The PVE difficulty thread in the dev columns and fish is still posting what he thinks there. Although, he has lightened up a little. This happened to me too when DM pmed me and told me that there would be some tweaks that would kill some of the difficulty complaints. Of cource, that never happened, instead they added 2 BILLION, yes I said 2,000,000,000, damage from elites and bosses in musti that tranfered to the entire group.
And, of cource, when I pmed my so called friend about it, the silence was again deafening.
Fish will learn also. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. But in SOE's case, all they grease with is another "tell them anything to shut them up, we can't have this stuff on the boards"