Its the future of MMORPG's. Look at the user numbers of any free to play game vs a pay to play game. Most P2P are dead or dying games. Once this next batch of clones....errr...."next generation" games falls on their faces, the subscription model will no longer be the industry standard.
Lol, no it isn't. No smart and honest gamer is going to buy something from soe when they are saying gold farming, power leveling services, etc are ok to support. (Through their "exchange" and by supporting someone from IGE) Sure it is for them! it makes them money! But it ruins the in game economy! I am truly astonished... What idiots we have making and supporting games these days. They care nothing for the customers, and are very narrow-minded.
/end rant
In any case after SWG I wasn't buying anything from them anyway... this just sets that in stone.
Thats exactly the point. It is no less than legalizing ruined economy and game balance.
In a game with monthy fee, I knew all players have the same start, and what you make of your character is from then on 100% your work. I can live with "cosmetic" things to pay, like a house or a horse. But all that is functional, sorry no thanks. I dont want the rich uber kids owning the games, while the average player is locked out of half the content and getting a half-assed gameplay.
In any either really free game, like GW, or the old fashioned monthly subsription games I know the guy in my group or if its PVP my enemy has those skills and items because he WORKED for them, not because he has more money than I do. Thats the basic fairness in all decend MMOs. I dont like the direction of this, and I can only hope the Agency, if this is the final word, sinks like a stone.
I don't think I could say how I feel about this any better than Elikal. My wife and I have both agreed that if games all start going to F2P we're done with gaming. I will not compete with someone that can have everything in game just because there rich out of game. Good luck with this all and I for one am very worried about the gaming future.
I don't understand your agrument. Mmo's have never been about skills or good gameplay. It's all about time. There are rich people playing now that gain a huge advantage over you because they don't have to work. Most mmos already have blackmarket sellers anyway. You might aswell give up playing mmos or change your stance.
You already have item shops in P2P games. Go to any one of hundreds of third party sites. The only difference in F2P and P2P regarding ingame economies is you pay monthly for one. P2P are over run with farmers and currency sellers and P2P MMOers are buying it up as fast as they can farm it. You guys are living in lala land if you think P2P are somehow better off then F2P in that sense.
Gamers are already NOT paying monthly fees in extreamly large numbers online, see any shooter / RTS or F2P MMO. The totally overshadow the tiny MMO community aside from WoW.
Micro transactions are where this industry is going. Vanguard and LotR insured that. Still waiting on that big anouncement of millions of users in LotRs.
Come on guys guys throw some support to your arguments.
What games can you show that have strengthend the P2P business model aside from WoW in the last 4 years...Vanguard???? LotR is practically giving away their subs at rock bottom prices, free play time and anything else you can think of and sales as of a month ago havent even broke 200k in NA. The P2P model is failing.
I contend that AoC will follow suit as will Tabula Rasa. Both these games are gonna crash hard.
WAR will do well for one reason and it has nothing to do with the MMO community: it already has a huge fan base as Blizzard did with the Warcraft series/Battlenet. If you think there are several million tradional MMO players rapped in WoW just waiting to jump into the next MMO you are WRONG.
Time investment is beyond the control of the developers, at least usually. Action point type systems might work for things like Urban Dead (which also helps the guy who runs it hold down the bandwidth use) but when you buy the box for $50, you don't expect that kind of thing. Play style will also play a roll, if you zip through quest text and avoid things that use time but don't make you more uber you're going to be ahead of people that take things more slowly. Often crafting is going to slow you down, too. The point being, those things are just how people choose to play. The developers provide outlets to people that like crafting or accomplishments or whatever, but no one has to use them. They often outright ban gold sellers (at least the spammy ones) when they catch them.
If people cheat, well, there isn't any help for that unless there is something the GMs or whomever makes the decision can do without some reasonable kind of proof.
Time investment will make you better in lots of things. In RPGs with character building, the effect is just more pronounced. The same would apply to playing a skill based for the most part. Of course, someone might just have good hand/eye coordination and tactical or spatial sense and orientation.
In any game, you can only make the playing field relatively level. Mandating the strengths and weaknesses, advantages or disadvantages, of individual players is a practical impossibility. As trying to do such would either fail or likely make for a game that is less fun.
Typically the MMORPGs that get listed here do not have financial success or lack thereof as a potentially important factor. The whole unevens the playing field further towards those who are fanatically dedicated to the game. Willing to spend copious amounts of time on it and further pay extra for being even more super.
That is what I don't like about item shops. I wouldn't like Halo if people could buy bonus damage bullets from Bungie for 50 cents a pop. I don't like MMORPGs where you can do that. I don't like microtransactions period because they're an insidious leeching source of revenue that I feel are designed to actively trick me into spending more than I would or should. Plus, everything I do feels more like wasted value (from the expense) than added value (that I derive from playing with a flat fee). Project Entropia tried to spring this whole F2P (but not really) gimmick back in the day. It disgusted me then, it disgusts me now.
Plus this is SOE. If I had an All Access pass, I'd actually be pretty annoyed with them. Sure it might never cover those games but this whole shifting business model would worry me.
I think the Guild Wars model would be much better (and I might be interested in an MMO/shooter that did that instead), because you pay for the expansion thats it. Not how many quarters and dollars you pump into their vending machines. There is a model I could dig if the subscription and associated content patches must fall by the wayside.
I don't understand your agrument. Mmo's have never been about skills or good gameplay. It's all about time. There are rich people playing now that gain a huge advantage over you because they don't have to work. Most mmos already have blackmarket sellers anyway. You might aswell give up playing mmos or change your stance.
So i'm either guessing that. A. Your smedley or someone that works for soe. If thats the case f'k off. B. A rich kid/dude that doesn;t know better and shouldn't have the money he has if thats the situation. C. Your a gold farmer, now if this is the case then you really need to f'k off. In any case I found your post very ignorant. You have no clue nor do you even seem to try to realize the ramifications if most games went this way.
Ill be nice and explain it to you. One people would be separated in groups people that can aquire things and people that can't and in my opinion this is wrong. Especially in a mmorpg. Some people go to mmorpgs to escape from real life for a time not to be reminded of it. Furthermore if you seriously support gold farming/leveling services you are part of the problem and not the solution. Gold farmers earn gold through exploits, overcamping areas where legit players are trying to get their share but can't, thus they ruin the economy by making prices for item skyrocket., making it hard for anyone on lower levels to achieve getting gear without buying gold from them. Which in my opinion is stupid.
So as you see, your post holds no water and is clearly void of anything smart. Sorry to everyone else having to read this,but this guy deserves this.
Oh and if people don't think gold farming is illegal, it is. Via copyright law and assumption of intelectual property laws.
As a few people before me said, if this is the future of mmo gaming i won't be a part of it. Why would i like to play another silkroad, voyage century or any other game where i can't get on terms with everyone unless i use 40+ bucks a month to even the playfield, i don't know about the rest of MMORPG's users but i ain't rich, heck if i can afford to upgrade my system to a modern standard once a year i feel lucky, i sure don't need my games being more of a "Who owns the biggest treasure pile" than old fashon gameplay.
MMORPG games has always been more of the social aspect to me than anything else, as i have a hard time socialising at ie. a bar or a disco, i have a much better chance of getting to know people in a world where i don't have to worry if i'm the biggest loser on earth.
I guess some people are just that desperate, to pay money to be much better than anyone else... Oh for christ's sake i just want the sandbox games of old back, the games where you didn't have to be good at raiding or anything to be able to be someone, eh i'm rambling here but i hope you get the point.
The arguement "I have to pay to stay competive" are often made by the uninformed. Just because an item shop is added does NOT mean that the balance will be thrown out of the window. its a false stereotype.
Furthermore if you seriously support gold farming/leveling services you are part of the problem and not the solution. Gold farmers earn gold through exploits, overcamping areas where legit players are trying to get their share but can't, thus they ruin the economy by making prices for item skyrocket., making it hard for anyone on lower levels to achieve getting gear without buying gold from them. Which in my opinion is stupid. So as you see, your post holds no water and is clearly void of anything smart. Sorry to everyone else having to read this,but this guy deserves this. Oh and if people don't think gold farming is illegal, it is. Via copyright law and assumption of intelectual property laws. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property#Overview_2
I took these off some of the more prominent powerlevelling/virtual currency trade services' websites, feel free to google those out:
Just count how many AAA+ graded MMORPGs on those lists?"Do you even seem to try to realize the ramifications if most games went this way" ALREADY before and purveyed by some of the most prominent p2p titles' 'players', before swiftly taking the so-called "p2p saves the industry" stance?
The current NA market for MMORPGs is estimated at 500-600mill+ last year and yet what's equally unsettling, is that this amount DOES NOT account for virtual currency trades and even more disturbing, include the same amount to the present estimations of USD1bill for the global market, money and business models DOES NOT seem to accelerate said devs/publishers' initiatives against secondary markets nor did the same solidify their stances on the matter?
I DID NOT post 'facts'. I'm merely trying to pose a discussion or rather a question. If a business model ensures with near faultless consistency towards quality, fair play and exerts control over the use of secondary markets, then enlighten me with the list of cause and effects on what makes or rather why is the secondary market is largely driven EQUALLY by p2p titles' 'players'?
A good majority of the listed AAA MMORPGs there spans a minimum of 5 years (past to present) average from beta to get go and all shares the same strong traits of quality titles, as it should.
So if quality and profits can't seem to negate the effects from secondary markets, what will?
Pay out more money? Contribute to streamline MMORPGs' devs/publishers cash flow? And to what end?
The industry needs an inflection/correction point at this stage. Even Wall St. needs to crash now and then.
I'm just amused really at how quick certain 'players' takes the industry's side in this matter with equal results IN OPPOSITE when or should a title fails to meet expectations at various factors.
No one said or had imminently pose near Nostradamus-like predictions on whether f2p is the 'end all' answer. I don't agree with the notion either? f2p is merely here to offset what's needed to be. f2p just got here and secondary markets had began long before scores of Korean 'imports' when into the NA markets and gained global notoriety.
I'm not saying to be 'part of the problem' is a good thing, far from it. What I'm saying is that if older sentiments sowed, inculcated and 'educated' from a side that deserved to take the blame as the main starting points in determining solutions left ignored, it's just a cheap shot really to point the finger at more current developments.
We're straying away from the topic really. Now I'm not currently a player of any SOE offerings. Been wanting to give VG a shot, but it seems that my hardware upgrades time window had 'saved' me from it's current (or perma) predicament. It'd be interesting really to see some more posts from current SOE titles' players, as to how or more ideas on favorable business model options for TA.
Seems like a good idea...The Agency isn't going to be a big hit and SOE probably picked up on that. They're better off going f2p than p2p but that doesn't give them an excuse to make a half-assed game.
Just count how many AAA+ graded MMORPGs on those lists?"Do you even seem to try to realize the ramifications if most games went this way" ALREADY before and purveyed by some of the most prominent p2p titles' 'players', before swiftly taking the so-called "p2p saves the industry" stance? Ok i'll bite. So what does the amount of AAA titles on their list have to do anything? It doesn't justify what gold sellers are doing.. it doesn't even prove that the titles or their devs approve the actions. I know blizzard recently got in a lawsuit with IGE, fact. FFXI I know for a fact (because I have been playing since release) perma-bans bots, third-party program users, gold sellers, and people that buy gil. Not only that, the ramifications i was talking about are fully represented on that game. Before the gold sellers were being banned in mass numbers and any ffxi'er will tell you the AH prices were skyrocketing. Mostly due to the fact of gold sellers camping a numberof NM spawns (so that other players could not do it), hacking gil, and other shady practices. They held the AH due to this reason and also sold gil... the plan on their part was obviously to have people in the mid levels and above have to buy gold to be able to afford anything. And they were quite successful.. that is, untill they were getting banned by the boat load each update/maintence. And oh have the prices starting dropping. I know on my server of kujata, many rares that were 20 mil gil+ droped to 100k gil over 3 days.. quite a drop. I can only guess that the prices for gil on IGE and the like skyrocketed. The point here isn't that the f2p and their pay models are flawed, i could really care less about those pay models, they are fine with me, (as long as they dont give an unfair advantage over the other players) What im saying is that supporting gold selling, third party progs that help you cheat, or anything else like that is bad, and should never be supported. The current NA market for MMORPGs is estimated at 500-600mill+ last year and yet what's equally unsettling, is that this amount DOES NOT account for virtual currency trades and even more disturbing, include the same amount to the present estimations of USD1bill for the global market, money and business models DOES NOT seem to accelerate said devs/publishers' initiatives against secondary markets nor did the same solidify their stances on the matter? Blizzard is on a lawsuit vs IGE i belive and ffxi (square enix) seems to be doing everything but doing lawsuits at the moment but i belive they will if they have to. I can't speak for the other game companies other than SoE. Which I believe they dont care as long as they get a share. What really urks me is they don't realize that if they sell currency, if they have any sort of an economy, it will be ruined. FFXI is enough proof of that. I DID NOT post 'facts'. I'm merely trying to pose a discussion or rather a question. If a business model ensures with near faultless consistency towards quality, fair play and exerts control over the use of secondary markets, then enlighten me with the list of cause and effects on what makes or rather why is the secondary market is largely driven EQUALLY by p2p titles' 'players'? Kinda imcomplete english, but ill do my best to answer. If you are asking why people buy gold.. it is becuase they want an advantage and they are clearly ignorant of the effects (see above) to their games economy, or worse.. they don't care. Either way its bad for everyone. I really don't need a list of bad effects to the game.. economies getting shafted is a domino rube goldberg device enough.... ( "a chain reaction" for those that dont know what a rube goldberg device is) A good majority of the listed AAA MMORPGs there spans a minimum of 5 years (past to present) average from beta to get go and all shares the same strong traits of quality titles, as it should. To be honest (no offense) I have to question if you played ffxi when the gold sellers were rampant. I never said anything to games going dead due to gold selling, merely what happens to the in-game economy. People have to either buy gil to get higher items or grind for a VERY long time. So if quality and profits can't seem to negate the effects from secondary markets, what will? Obviously..the law bringing the hammer down on this, its too rampant and its easily a violation of copyright and intelectual property laws. And the people that support gold selling getting a clue about what it does to a game and stop supporting it. The industry needs an inflection/correction point at this stage. Even Wall St. needs to crash now and then. Lol... the most silly post i have ever read. So you think having gold farmers hammering an economy and making it crash is good for a game... lol.. thanks for the laugh... no... its the gold farmers fault that the in game economies in certian games are horrible. FFXI's economy is actually recovering due to the mutiple bannings. I'm just amused really at how quick certain 'players' takes the industry's side in this matter with equal results IN OPPOSITE when or should a title fails to meet expectations at various factors. What IM amused about is why people are supporting gold farming... to me... it seems... selfish? *shrug* No one said or had imminently pose near Nostradamus-like predictions on whether f2p is the 'end all' answer. I don't agree with the notion either? Right, It will be interesting to see how long f2p lasts against p2p. Just a hunch but im going to guess p2p will win the rase against longest game around. But that is pure opinion why are we talking about f2p again? I thought the 'current' discussion shifted to gold farming? I'm not saying to be 'part of the problem' is a good thing, far from it. What I'm saying is that if older sentiments sowed, inculcated and 'educated' from a side that deserved to take the blame as the main starting points in determining solutions left ignored, it's just a cheap shot really to point the finger at more current developments. So your saying (from what im read and getting from it) that the players are at fault for the goldsellers options? I'll agree with that.. to a point. I for one never support gold sellers. My expereinces on FFXI and the annoying adds being spamed on games is enough to solidify that. HOWEVER, its not the sole fault of the people buying. Its shared... for the most part its the fualt of the people gold farmers that are cheating via map warps and other third party progs, monopolizing camping mobs, and using high prices on ah to create a loop where people are prodded to buy from them to get anywhere in the game.. ************************************************************************************************************************ We're straying away from the topic really. Now I'm not currently a player of any SOE offerings. Been wanting to give VG a shot, but it seems that my hardware upgrades time window had 'saved' me from it's current (or perma) predicament. It'd be interesting really to see some more posts from current SOE titles' players, as to how or more ideas on favorable business model options for TA. Yeah we really should get back on topic ill admit... this whole gold farming thing should really be done on another thread. Other options you say? Paying for just better looking armor is something other games have done ( i believe it was 9 dragons), and it still doesn't un balance the game. Just purely cosmetic.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
I disagree. As you called me ignorant i will explain how i'm not and you are...
First. i'm 22, a firefighter and have sh*t all money and no, i'm not smed.
Second, You're living in a fairy tale. There will always be good players (who win) and bad players (who lose). This is the same with alot of things. Ie education, some people shouldn't go to uni as they lack the skill for it. It would be great if we could send every person to uni but it isn't reasonable, we just end up with large amounts of debt which has to go somewhere. Also before you say it... i never went to uni. This is more of a UK problem and might not be the same as your education system.
You are also 'ignorant' to the fact that games can be created so that farmers can't harm other players gameplay. ie instancing. And even if they stopped every offline money farmer we would still have legit farmers who would annoy you with there winning anyway.
Also you will never escape shit in the world if you don't let go and stop moaning about how life is so shit. If you don't want to lose to other people, stop trying to win. There will always be items you can't afford, raids you can't win or pvp players who are more expericanced / skilled.
Frankly i feel you are disillusioned and unreasonable.
well, soe can't keep adding $5 to their station pass every time a new title gets added, now can they?
potbs, dc heroes, gods & heroes, the agency and one other fantasy mmo are part of soe's stable, will become part of soe's stable, or are part of soe's publishing platform (which sounds like they'll be added to soe's stable, i.e. station pass).
whether i'm paying for one game or 20 games, the actual amount of time i spend playing games in a week doesn't increase on a per-game-basis. if other people have to punch-in and clock X amount of hours per game, um, ok. but that's not me.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
well, soe can't keep adding $5 to their station pass every time a new title gets added, now can they? potbs, dc heroes, gods & heroes, the agency and one other fantasy mmo are part of soe's stable, will become part of soe's stable, or are part of soe's publishing platform (which sounds like they'll be added to soe's stable, i.e. station pass).
I'm curious to see what they do when they start adding all of these games to the Station Access. As you said, they can't keep adding $5. At the moment, it appears that they have hit the invisible ceiling on what folks are willing to spend on a monthly sub. If they increase it any more customers will abandon it quickly, in my opinion.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
I hate to the one to give you bad news folks , there is no even playing. Most of the top players in either 1) have no job / no school thus limitless time 2) Buy gil online or power level service 3) are run by more than one person.
12 years of Online gaming , I d said the blackmarket buyers make up 40% or more of the gil floating around in the game. I d said 50% of the highest lvl people are run by more than one person or/and share accounts. Power leveling , having done it for 8.50 an hour in Lineage 2 and some other games , is more common than you realize.
With SOE about to directly effect the inflation with item malls , and releasing developing as the community needs I think it will work well. Free to play games are huge in Asia, the average gamer there spends 300.00 the first month and roughly 200.00 every few months afterwards.
US and Euro is different , if you ever read the posts during the first price increase, more than half of the people playing dont understand it cost money to run an online game. More over then that most believe 50.00 will substantain a game for life. They have no concept of money and have no concept of real life.
In the US the reason why most f2p are subpar , is only 10% of the players support the game. Another 25% or so have some made up fantasy about cost vs worth of the real dollar , so they buy through the black market sites.
Some games , like Archlord on purpose break advancement beyond a certain point to make income , creating a steady flow of cash. This can be good or bad.
Comments
Lol, no it isn't. No smart and honest gamer is going to buy something from soe when they are saying gold farming, power leveling services, etc are ok to support. (Through their "exchange" and by supporting someone from IGE) Sure it is for them! it makes them money! But it ruins the in game economy! I am truly astonished... What idiots we have making and supporting games these days. They care nothing for the customers, and are very narrow-minded.
/end rant
In any case after SWG I wasn't buying anything from them anyway... this just sets that in stone.
Thats exactly the point. It is no less than legalizing ruined economy and game balance.
In a game with monthy fee, I knew all players have the same start, and what you make of your character is from then on 100% your work. I can live with "cosmetic" things to pay, like a house or a horse. But all that is functional, sorry no thanks. I dont want the rich uber kids owning the games, while the average player is locked out of half the content and getting a half-assed gameplay.
In any either really free game, like GW, or the old fashioned monthly subsription games I know the guy in my group or if its PVP my enemy has those skills and items because he WORKED for them, not because he has more money than I do. Thats the basic fairness in all decend MMOs. I dont like the direction of this, and I can only hope the Agency, if this is the final word, sinks like a stone.
I don't think I could say how I feel about this any better than Elikal. My wife and I have both agreed that if games all start going to F2P we're done with gaming. I will not compete with someone that can have everything in game just because there rich out of game. Good luck with this all and I for one am very worried about the gaming future.
I don't understand your agrument. Mmo's have never been about skills or good gameplay. It's all about time. There are rich people playing now that gain a huge advantage over you because they don't have to work. Most mmos already have blackmarket sellers anyway. You might aswell give up playing mmos or change your stance.
You already have item shops in P2P games. Go to any one of hundreds of third party sites. The only difference in F2P and P2P regarding ingame economies is you pay monthly for one. P2P are over run with farmers and currency sellers and P2P MMOers are buying it up as fast as they can farm it. You guys are living in lala land if you think P2P are somehow better off then F2P in that sense.
Gamers are already NOT paying monthly fees in extreamly large numbers online, see any shooter / RTS or F2P MMO. The totally overshadow the tiny MMO community aside from WoW.
Micro transactions are where this industry is going. Vanguard and LotR insured that. Still waiting on that big anouncement of millions of users in LotRs.
Come on guys guys throw some support to your arguments.
What games can you show that have strengthend the P2P business model aside from WoW in the last 4 years...Vanguard???? LotR is practically giving away their subs at rock bottom prices, free play time and anything else you can think of and sales as of a month ago havent even broke 200k in NA. The P2P model is failing.
I contend that AoC will follow suit as will Tabula Rasa. Both these games are gonna crash hard.
WAR will do well for one reason and it has nothing to do with the MMO community: it already has a huge fan base as Blizzard did with the Warcraft series/Battlenet. If you think there are several million tradional MMO players rapped in WoW just waiting to jump into the next MMO you are WRONG.
Time investment is beyond the control of the developers, at least usually. Action point type systems might work for things like Urban Dead (which also helps the guy who runs it hold down the bandwidth use) but when you buy the box for $50, you don't expect that kind of thing. Play style will also play a roll, if you zip through quest text and avoid things that use time but don't make you more uber you're going to be ahead of people that take things more slowly. Often crafting is going to slow you down, too. The point being, those things are just how people choose to play. The developers provide outlets to people that like crafting or accomplishments or whatever, but no one has to use them. They often outright ban gold sellers (at least the spammy ones) when they catch them.
If people cheat, well, there isn't any help for that unless there is something the GMs or whomever makes the decision can do without some reasonable kind of proof.
Time investment will make you better in lots of things. In RPGs with character building, the effect is just more pronounced. The same would apply to playing a skill based for the most part. Of course, someone might just have good hand/eye coordination and tactical or spatial sense and orientation.
In any game, you can only make the playing field relatively level. Mandating the strengths and weaknesses, advantages or disadvantages, of individual players is a practical impossibility. As trying to do such would either fail or likely make for a game that is less fun.
Typically the MMORPGs that get listed here do not have financial success or lack thereof as a potentially important factor. The whole unevens the playing field further towards those who are fanatically dedicated to the game. Willing to spend copious amounts of time on it and further pay extra for being even more super.
That is what I don't like about item shops. I wouldn't like Halo if people could buy bonus damage bullets from Bungie for 50 cents a pop. I don't like MMORPGs where you can do that. I don't like microtransactions period because they're an insidious leeching source of revenue that I feel are designed to actively trick me into spending more than I would or should. Plus, everything I do feels more like wasted value (from the expense) than added value (that I derive from playing with a flat fee). Project Entropia tried to spring this whole F2P (but not really) gimmick back in the day. It disgusted me then, it disgusts me now.
Plus this is SOE. If I had an All Access pass, I'd actually be pretty annoyed with them. Sure it might never cover those games but this whole shifting business model would worry me.
I think the Guild Wars model would be much better (and I might be interested in an MMO/shooter that did that instead), because you pay for the expansion thats it. Not how many quarters and dollars you pump into their vending machines. There is a model I could dig if the subscription and associated content patches must fall by the wayside.
So i'm either guessing that. A. Your smedley or someone that works for soe. If thats the case f'k off. B. A rich kid/dude that doesn;t know better and shouldn't have the money he has if thats the situation. C. Your a gold farmer, now if this is the case then you really need to f'k off. In any case I found your post very ignorant. You have no clue nor do you even seem to try to realize the ramifications if most games went this way.
Ill be nice and explain it to you. One people would be separated in groups people that can aquire things and people that can't and in my opinion this is wrong. Especially in a mmorpg. Some people go to mmorpgs to escape from real life for a time not to be reminded of it. Furthermore if you seriously support gold farming/leveling services you are part of the problem and not the solution. Gold farmers earn gold through exploits, overcamping areas where legit players are trying to get their share but can't, thus they ruin the economy by making prices for item skyrocket., making it hard for anyone on lower levels to achieve getting gear without buying gold from them. Which in my opinion is stupid.
So as you see, your post holds no water and is clearly void of anything smart. Sorry to everyone else having to read this,but this guy deserves this.
Oh and if people don't think gold farming is illegal, it is. Via copyright law and assumption of intelectual property laws.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property#Overview_2
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
As a few people before me said, if this is the future of mmo gaming i won't be a part of it. Why would i like to play another silkroad, voyage century or any other game where i can't get on terms with everyone unless i use 40+ bucks a month to even the playfield, i don't know about the rest of MMORPG's users but i ain't rich, heck if i can afford to upgrade my system to a modern standard once a year i feel lucky, i sure don't need my games being more of a "Who owns the biggest treasure pile" than old fashon gameplay.
MMORPG games has always been more of the social aspect to me than anything else, as i have a hard time socialising at ie. a bar or a disco, i have a much better chance of getting to know people in a world where i don't have to worry if i'm the biggest loser on earth.
I guess some people are just that desperate, to pay money to be much better than anyone else... Oh for christ's sake i just want the sandbox games of old back, the games where you didn't have to be good at raiding or anything to be able to be someone, eh i'm rambling here but i hope you get the point.
The arguement "I have to pay to stay competive" are often made by the uninformed. Just because an item shop is added does NOT mean that the balance will be thrown out of the window. its a false stereotype.
I took these off some of the more prominent powerlevelling/virtual currency trade services' websites, feel free to google those out:
Just count how many AAA+ graded MMORPGs on those lists? "Do you even seem to try to realize the ramifications if most games went this way" ALREADY before and purveyed by some of the most prominent p2p titles' 'players', before swiftly taking the so-called "p2p saves the industry" stance?
The current NA market for MMORPGs is estimated at 500-600mill+ last year and yet what's equally unsettling, is that this amount DOES NOT account for virtual currency trades and even more disturbing, include the same amount to the present estimations of USD1bill for the global market, money and business models DOES NOT seem to accelerate said devs/publishers' initiatives against secondary markets nor did the same solidify their stances on the matter?
I DID NOT post 'facts'. I'm merely trying to pose a discussion or rather a question. If a business model ensures with near faultless consistency towards quality, fair play and exerts control over the use of secondary markets, then enlighten me with the list of cause and effects on what makes or rather why is the secondary market is largely driven EQUALLY by p2p titles' 'players'?
A good majority of the listed AAA MMORPGs there spans a minimum of 5 years (past to present) average from beta to get go and all shares the same strong traits of quality titles, as it should.
So if quality and profits can't seem to negate the effects from secondary markets, what will?
Pay out more money? Contribute to streamline MMORPGs' devs/publishers cash flow? And to what end?
The industry needs an inflection/correction point at this stage. Even Wall St. needs to crash now and then.
I'm just amused really at how quick certain 'players' takes the industry's side in this matter with equal results IN OPPOSITE when or should a title fails to meet expectations at various factors.
No one said or had imminently pose near Nostradamus-like predictions on whether f2p is the 'end all' answer. I don't agree with the notion either? f2p is merely here to offset what's needed to be. f2p just got here and secondary markets had began long before scores of Korean 'imports' when into the NA markets and gained global notoriety.
I'm not saying to be 'part of the problem' is a good thing, far from it. What I'm saying is that if older sentiments sowed, inculcated and 'educated' from a side that deserved to take the blame as the main starting points in determining solutions left ignored, it's just a cheap shot really to point the finger at more current developments.
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We're straying away from the topic really. Now I'm not currently a player of any SOE offerings. Been wanting to give VG a shot, but it seems that my hardware upgrades time window had 'saved' me from it's current (or perma) predicament. It'd be interesting really to see some more posts from current SOE titles' players, as to how or more ideas on favorable business model options for TA.
Seems like a good idea...The Agency isn't going to be a big hit and SOE probably picked up on that. They're better off going f2p than p2p but that doesn't give them an excuse to make a half-assed game.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
I disagree. As you called me ignorant i will explain how i'm not and you are...
First. i'm 22, a firefighter and have sh*t all money and no, i'm not smed.
Second, You're living in a fairy tale. There will always be good players (who win) and bad players (who lose). This is the same with alot of things. Ie education, some people shouldn't go to uni as they lack the skill for it. It would be great if we could send every person to uni but it isn't reasonable, we just end up with large amounts of debt which has to go somewhere. Also before you say it... i never went to uni. This is more of a UK problem and might not be the same as your education system.
You are also 'ignorant' to the fact that games can be created so that farmers can't harm other players gameplay. ie instancing. And even if they stopped every offline money farmer we would still have legit farmers who would annoy you with there winning anyway.
Also you will never escape shit in the world if you don't let go and stop moaning about how life is so shit. If you don't want to lose to other people, stop trying to win. There will always be items you can't afford, raids you can't win or pvp players who are more expericanced / skilled.
Frankly i feel you are disillusioned and unreasonable.
well, soe can't keep adding $5 to their station pass every time a new title gets added, now can they?
potbs, dc heroes, gods & heroes, the agency and one other fantasy mmo are part of soe's stable, will become part of soe's stable, or are part of soe's publishing platform (which sounds like they'll be added to soe's stable, i.e. station pass).
whether i'm paying for one game or 20 games, the actual amount of time i spend playing games in a week doesn't increase on a per-game-basis. if other people have to punch-in and clock X amount of hours per game, um, ok. but that's not me.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I'm curious to see what they do when they start adding all of these games to the Station Access. As you said, they can't keep adding $5. At the moment, it appears that they have hit the invisible ceiling on what folks are willing to spend on a monthly sub. If they increase it any more customers will abandon it quickly, in my opinion.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
I hate to the one to give you bad news folks , there is no even playing. Most of the top players in either 1) have no job / no school thus limitless time 2) Buy gil online or power level service 3) are run by more than one person.
12 years of Online gaming , I d said the blackmarket buyers make up 40% or more of the gil floating around in the game. I d said 50% of the highest lvl people are run by more than one person or/and share accounts. Power leveling , having done it for 8.50 an hour in Lineage 2 and some other games , is more common than you realize.
With SOE about to directly effect the inflation with item malls , and releasing developing as the community needs I think it will work well. Free to play games are huge in Asia, the average gamer there spends 300.00 the first month and roughly 200.00 every few months afterwards.
US and Euro is different , if you ever read the posts during the first price increase, more than half of the people playing dont understand it cost money to run an online game. More over then that most believe 50.00 will substantain a game for life. They have no concept of money and have no concept of real life.
In the US the reason why most f2p are subpar , is only 10% of the players support the game. Another 25% or so have some made up fantasy about cost vs worth of the real dollar , so they buy through the black market sites.
Some games , like Archlord on purpose break advancement beyond a certain point to make income , creating a steady flow of cash. This can be good or bad.