Hardcore WOW raider thinking about trying LOTR...

Railgunner

OK... I was a hardcore WOW raider for about 2 years.  MT of a large guild.  One of just a few warriors on my realm with full T2 Wrath back before Naxx. 

Anyway, I quit WOW shortly before the 1st x-pac.  I was pissed that Blizzard showed such contempt for the time serious players had invested in character development when they basically rendering all existing gear (and rep) junk in the x-pac.   

They could have done the x-pac right... They should have required that players complete a quest by killing the end boss in Naxx before opening up the level cap and they could have easily prevented level 60's and 61+ players from joining the same raid to prevent level 70's from running 60's thru Naxx.   But no... Blizzard instead choose to just render everyones gear into junk.    

I had hoped to get into AOC but now that's it's been delayed I'm tired of waiting for a new game and I'm thinking about trying LOTR. 

My questions are...

1.  Does the developer have any stated long term plans for LOTR?  New features like player housing, etc?

2.  What's the player community like?   Is everyone already at max level or are there still a lot of noobs just getting into the game?

 

FikusOfAhazi

Player housing is next update i think. Community is older it seems..alot of the kids thought it was too hard having to group and stuff in an MMO in my opinion and have went back to whatever. There are a ton of noobs though. However you wont find raiding in lotr the same as WOW. There are other ways to get the uber gear..like crafting. I dunno. All you can do is try it.

fireheathen

Alot of plans in the works... we are currently playing in one section of what seems to be a 10? ( i believe) section world...Fishing, housing,better player development,kinship bonuses..etc, etc

Secondly, so far the community has been better than I have seen in any other mmo to date... good people, easy to get teams, and there is always seemingly people at about any lvl you wish to play at.

SyrupBoy

Originally posted by Railgunner



They could have done the x-pac right... They should have required that players complete a quest by killing the end boss in Naxx before opening up the level cap and they could have easily prevented level 60's and 61+ players from joining the same raid to prevent level 70's from running 60's thru Naxx.   But no... Blizzard instead choose to just render everyones gear into junk.    

Thats the dumbest idea ever man. Not everyone has the time to spend to be able to do that. Alot of WoW players don't even bother to raid. Alot of people liked the grind to 70. And many are looking forward to another 10 lvls of new content.  And I honestly don't think this is the game for you if your a hardcore raider. Most of the content seems to be in 1-50 from what I have heard and people like you just rush through the lvls so you can raid endgame.

hercules

I be honest with you.If you are anything but the most casual raider forget lotro.

It certainly is not for hardcore raiders

Lobotomist

I second that

Wow raiders do not enjoy LOTRO

AckbarNL

IS seems your more intresting in the Gear, then in the Raiding, if you like raiding you sould not care that you gear will become ussless whit an x-pack, it will become ussless anyhow whit any new raid deugon , els there would be no point to keep playing, you sould play Wow if you like raiding not if your only doing it for the gear.

And i dont think Lotro is for you.

Die_Scream

Going to agree with everyone. LOTRO is definately not for you if I read you right. This is one of those ultra-casual games where the fans always say "you play to much" "it wasn't designed for playing more than a couple hours a week", you know, the new MMO mantra for the latest crop of games.

LOTRO is a pretty accurate WoW clone with much nicer graphics (landscape), and no end-game. Honestly, try a trial before buying, as can be said for any new MMO really.

Vallenar

Armor doesn't make your character in this game as the +stats on the armor really don't give you huge increases to power or damage output.  It is more about the story and the world, they do have a few raid instances in game.  2 I think.

They also introduced rep grinding in the last patch.

Crafting can also be a time sink if you enjoy it.

Really, all you can do is give it whirl and see what you think/.

Keogh

I'm a LotRO founder with a free life-time subscription.

If you are a hardcore WoW raider or PvP'er, you will NOT like LOTRO.

Save yourself $50.00 and stay away.

 

shermon15

I did the hardcore WoW raiding thing too, but burnt out thankfully.  I really enjoyed LOTRO and even have a lifetime sub.  

If you are expecting gear progression type raiding its not here.   High end crafted gear is better.  The raids arent too hardcore except maybe Thorog now. 

As people have said there are tons of content planned and the future of the game will be bright. 

for us players who have been at level cap a long time there are what seems like only a few things to do.  I know this will change as the game matures.

In my guild there are people at all levels, so I would expect you to find some people.  I see alot of people in the 20s on my alt. 

I got into the game for the story. 

rishaki

Wow ripoff with no endgame and crap pvp, you might aswell stay with wow since its a deeper and better game in most way. This game is 100% for casual players and generaly boring even if casual, just comunity is somewhat good in this game, better than in wow atleast. The low playerbase shows how poor this game is tbh.

SyrupBoy

Originally posted by rishaki


Wow ripoff with no endgame and crap pvp, you might aswell stay with wow since its a deeper and better game in most way. This game is 100% for casual players and generaly boring even if casual, just comunity is somewhat good in this game, better than in wow atleast. The low playerbase shows how poor this game is tbh.

In your extremely biased opinion. And the playerbase isn't low at all, compared to WoW maybe but it's still one of the more populated games around right now. You can't expect every game to have the mass appeal WoW does.  Honestly your not going to play with all 8 millions players in WoW at the same time anyway so what does it matter how many people are playing as long as you enjoy the game. And lol @ WoW being "deep". Nothin deep about it and that's coming from a fan.

Die_Scream

Originally posted by SyrupBoy


 
Originally posted by rishaki


Wow ripoff with no endgame and crap pvp, you might aswell stay with wow since its a deeper and better game in most way. This game is 100% for casual players and generaly boring even if casual, just comunity is somewhat good in this game, better than in wow atleast. The low playerbase shows how poor this game is tbh.

 

In your extremely biased opinion. And the playerbase isn't low at all, compared to WoW maybe but it's still one of the more populated games around right now. You can't expect every game to have the mass appeal WoW does.  Honestly your not going to play with all 8 millions players in WoW at the same time anyway so what does it matter how many people are playing as long as you enjoy the game. And lol @ WoW being "deep". Nothin deep about it and that's coming from a fan.

LOTRO population is good from what I know. I honestly don't think it deserves high population, but there ya go.

Neither WoW or LOTRO are deep, complex or very interesting in my opinion. WoW has much more to do and places to go, but LOTRO has nicer graphics. In the end, they are both icing on a cake with no layers though. Neither game is suitable for player looking for a deep, immersive game experience IMO.

Sovrath

Originally posted by shermon15


I did the hardcore WoW raiding thing too, but burnt out thankfully.  I really enjoyed LOTRO and even have a lifetime sub.  
If you are expecting gear progression type raiding its not here.   High end crafted gear is better.  The raids arent too hardcore except maybe Thorog now. 
As people have said there are tons of content planned and the future of the game will be bright. 
for us players who have been at level cap a long time there are what seems like only a few things to do.  I know this will change as the game matures.
In my guild there are people at all levels, so I would expect you to find some people.  I see alot of people in the 20s on my alt. 
I got into the game for the story. 

Well, my first thought is that you are in the wrong place. You should be on the LOTRO forums in order to see what they are doing and what they have in store.

Yes, they are going to have player housing by the way.

However, if you really want information you can find it there. The games are different (WoW and LOTRO) no matter what people say.

LOTRO is based on a story. I have to disagree with the poster that said it wasn't deep. It's very deep. But it's deep in a way that will make "Lord of the Rings" fans interested. There is a lot of story, lots of references to obscure little things in the books.

Unlike WoW which is based on a story that Blizzard makes up (which can change as they see fit), LOTRO is based on prescribed books. You basically follow a parrallel story that is hinted at in the books.

It's not for everyone I can say that. The world is beautiful. I find it fun. However, if you are used to hardcore raiding you will have to wait a bit as I believe WoW has more raids than LOTRO. There are great instanced quests though which are very fun. However, you are not going to be getting flying mounts or large special effects.

LOTRO is more "classy" in that regard.

gimpusmons

Unless Turbine puts in more raid content and guild functionality I suggest staying away LOTRO if you are a raider-centric player. Otherwise, don't expect a long stay.

I was the XO of a new "raiding" guild on Landroval server for the first two months the game was out. The 10 to 15 core members, all veterans of WOW and/or EQ blasted through to 50 within about a month, cleared all the single group instances, sampled the one raid instance that was introduced after release, and screwed around in pvp. The general consensus was that this was fun at the start but ultimately not compelling enough to keep active content-oriented players entertained. Most of the guild left the game within two months.

I enjoyed my time in LOTRO, with the rich lore and pleasant graphics, and wanted to stay but its not built to cater to players who prefer the kind of structured raiding, loot collecting, or serious pvp that you can find in WOW, at least not yet. The present target audience appears to be RPG'ers more interested in socializing and casual gamers with only a few hours per week to play. Having an appreciation for Tolkien lore helps.

Stick with WOW till WAR comes out or do like I have done and take a break from MMOs to enjoy life and other games coming out this fall.

walker68

 Its a decent game to play an hour here and there till  war comes out.

iffymack

Originally posted by Railgunner


   They could have done the x-pac right... They should have required that players complete a quest by killing the end boss in Naxx before opening up the level cap and they could have easily prevented level 60's and 61+ players from joining the same raid to prevent level 70's from running 60's thru Naxx.   But no... Blizzard instead choose to just render everyones gear into junk.    
 

problem with that idea is that some people have lives outside world of warcraft and enjoy other things,e.g,fresh air,the sun,speaking to human beings face to face.

not everyone wants to raid for 6 hours an evening 7 days a week. get over it.

docminus

Railgunner - you might want to consider EQ2 instead. There you have raids, as many as you want, but not hardcore if you choose not to raid. EQ2 is more matured so to speak.

LOTRO is fun, but can become boring if you have a problem with the playstyle/content in the game.

Communities in both games are great, although in LOTRO you might stumble upon some over enthusiastic fanbois not accepting criticism (the usual so to speak).

 

WSIMike

Originally posted by Railgunner




1.  Does the developer have any stated long term plans for LOTR?  New features like player housing, etc?



Well, at present, there is one of the major regions of Middle Earth in place - Eriador. Turbine has committed to bi-monthly content updates in which they'll expand on the world, adding a new zone or two, adding new quests, new gear and so forth. Besides that, they're also going to be releasing major expansion packs at intervals; most likely to introduce all new regions to the game, following the path of the Ring East to Mount Doom.
In answer to your question about housing, yep, there are plans for housing... I believe in one of the next updates.
2.  What's the player community like?   Is everyone already at max level or are there still a lot of noobs just getting into the game?



There's a mix of people at all levels. Some people are playing the game in full-on "I just want to get to end-game" mode. Some simply play more and make progress faster. Others are more casual, play less or simply spend more of their time doing a variety of things other than leveling/questing. You'll find all kinds in this game. I know that in pretty much any zone I'm in at a given time, there are people looking for groups to do quests with, etc. In the Ettenmoors (the PvMP zone), there are regularly people looking for a raid team, or announcing where "freeps" have been sighted, etc. In short... I don't think you'd have a hard time finding a group.



-------------
That said... I want to go off topic here a bit and respond, in general, to some of the comments made in this thread, even though they offered nothing in terms of answering your questions.



First, I'm sure I don't need to point out the absurdity of people stating a lack of content in LoTRO after a mere 4 months or so in retail as a "flaw", especially when they compare it to WoW which has been out for 2+ years. That speaks for itself.

As for people knocking it for not being ideal for hardcore players... Well, aside from the fact that it was never marketed to the "hardcore" crowd in the first place, there's an irony in that mentality that I just can't get over. Anyone else remember back when WoW was first released, people - even folks right on this site - were praising Blizzard for finally putting out a game that non "hardcore" players could enjoy without requiring endless hours to do so? Some marked it as the "death of hardcore MMOs", declaring the WoW model as the "way of the future for MMOs". I remember those posts all too well.

Yet, here we are now where any MMO that comes out following that "casual friendly" model is somehow mocked and slammed as being a "WoW clone". The irony of people calling any MMO a "WoW Clone" is self-evident, especially knowing the mentality behind WoW's design. Even more ironic is that many people are still spending endless hours playing it.

Finally, you're going to see alot of people flat out stating the game is "a direct WoW clone". Well, while I'm the last one to dismiss someone's opinion, there's a trend of disingenuous commentary from some here (as in any MMO's forums, of course). Are there similarities? Sure. I won't deny that. However, some people grossly overstate it.



1. First of all, it's based on Tolkien's Middle Earth.. not Blizzard's Azeroth. First obvious indication it's not a direct clone.
2. Entirely different graphics styles. Entirely different graphics engines. Entirely different environment and character design.



3. Third, and most telling of the utter ignorance possessed by some people... People say the controls/interface are a direct copy of WoW's. This is wrong in two ways.



First, I think the people who make that statement must have played WoW as their first and only MMO and have no other game to use as reference. They don't realize that other MMOs that came out well before WoW used the same type of setup - including one of Turbine's own games... Asheron's Call 2, which leads me to my second point...



Second, if Turbine stole the interface for LoTRO from anyone, it was from themselves.
Here's a link to a screenshot of Asheron's Call 2.

http://tinyurl.com/2o9che
Now, here's a pic of LoTRO:

http://tinyurl.com/2j2vk4
Hmm... they're kinda setup similarly, aren't they. Both have their major interface components in the same place and are similar in appearance. Both use WASD to move and numbers corresponding to spots on the hotkey bar... Both use "space" as the default jump button...



Let's look at some dates...
World of Warcraft was first released (in the US, Canada, etc) on November 23, 2004.



Asheron's Call 2 was released on November 22, 2002.

Wow... almost 2 full years before WoW, to the day.


Does that mean I get to claim WoW stole their interface from Asheron's Call 2? If I were as simple-minded and ignorant as some on these forums, I certainly could. But I won't, because even AC2 wasn't the first game to use that type of interface.



The bigger point here is... Word of Warcraft was not the first MMO on the market with the features it has. The only real "innovation" it introduced was the concept of "casual play". Any other major feature in the game that people love to claim other MMOs have "cloned" from it, have been around in MMOs dating back to MMOs that came out years before it.
So please... get off the "WoW Clone!!!" bandwagon, get a clue and start offering up some better researched arguments, please?
</rant>
I'll now sit here and wait for the inevitable cries of "fanboy!" for making a factually supported argument.
 

brostyn

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Railgunner




1.  Does the developer have any stated long term plans for LOTR?  New features like player housing, etc?



Well, at present, there is one of the major regions of Middle Earth in place - Eriador. Turbine has committed to bi-monthly content updates in which they'll expand on the world, adding a new zone or two, adding new quests, new gear and so forth. Besides that, they're also going to be releasing major expansion packs at intervals; most likely to introduce all new regions to the game, following the path of the Ring East to Mount Doom.
In answer to your question about housing, yep, there are plans for housing... I believe in one of the next updates.
2.  What's the player community like?   Is everyone already at max level or are there still a lot of noobs just getting into the game?



There's a mix of people at all levels. Some people are playing the game in full-on "I just want to get to end-game" mode. Some simply play more and make progress faster. Others are more casual, play less or simply spend more of their time doing a variety of things other than leveling/questing. You'll find all kinds in this game. I know that in pretty much any zone I'm in at a given time, there are people looking for groups to do quests with, etc. In the Ettenmoors (the PvMP zone), there are regularly people looking for a raid team, or announcing where "freeps" have been sighted, etc. In short... I don't think you'd have a hard time finding a group.



-------------
That said... I want to go off topic here a bit and respond, in general, to some of the comments made in this thread, even though they offered nothing in terms of answering your questions.



First, I'm sure I don't need to point out the absurdity of people stating a lack of content in LoTRO after a mere 4 months or so in retail as a "flaw", especially when they compare it to WoW which has been out for 3+ years. That speaks for itself.

As for people knocking it for not being ideal for hardcore players... Well, aside from the fact that it was never marketed to the "hardcore" crowd in the first place, there's an irony in that mentality that I just can't get over. Anyone else remember back when WoW was first released, people - even folks right on this site - were praising Blizzard for finally putting out a game that non "hardcore" players could enjoy without requiring endless hours to do so? Some marked it as the "death of hardcore MMOs", declaring the WoW model as the "way of the future for MMOs". I remember those posts all too well.


Yet, here we are now where any MMO that comes out following that "casual friendly" model is somehow mocked and slammed as being a "WoW clone". The irony of people calling any MMO a "WoW Clone" is self-evident, especially knowing the mentality behind WoW's design. Even more ironic is that many people are still spending endless hours playing it.

Finally, you're going to see alot of people flat out stating the game is "a direct WoW clone". Well, while I'm the last one to dismiss someone's opinion, there's a trend of disingenuous commentary from some here (as in any MMO's forums, of course). Are there similarities? Sure. I won't deny that. However, some people grossly overstate it.



First of all, it's based on Tolkien's Middle Earth.. not Blizzard's Azeroth. First obvious indication it's not a direct clone.



Second.. people say the controls/interface are a direct copy ow WoW's. This is wrong in two ways.



First, I think the people who make that statement must have played WoW as their first and only MMO and have no other game to use as reference. They don't realize that other MMOs that came out well before WoW used the same type of setup - including one of Turbine's own games... Asheron's Call 2, which leads me to my second point...



Second, if Turbine stole the interface for LoTRO from anyone, it was from themselves.
Here's a link to a screenshot of Asheron's Call 2.

http://tinyurl.com/2o9che
Now, here's a pic of LoTRO:

http://tinyurl.com/2j2vk4
Hmm... they're kinda setup similarly, aren't they. Both have their major interface components in the same place and are similar in appearance. Both use WASD to move and numbers corresponding to spots on the hotkey bar... Both use "space" as the default jump button...



Let's look at some dates...
World of Warcraft was first released (in the US, Canada, etc) on November 23, 2004.



Asheron's Call 2 was released on November 22, 2002.

Wow... almost 2 full years before WoW, to the day.


Does that mean I get to claim WoW stole their interface from Asheron's Call 2? If I were as simple-minded and ignorant as some on these forums, I certainly could. But I won't, because even AC2 wasn't the first game to use that type of interface.



The bigger point here is... Word of Warcraft was not the first MMO on the market. The only real "innovation" it introduced was the concept of "casual play". Any other major feature in the game that people love to claim other MMOs have "cloned" from it, have been around in MMOs dating back to MMOs that came out years before it.
So please... get off the "WoW Clone!!!" bandwagon, get a clue and start offering up some better researched arguments, please?
</rant>
 

Man, I didn't know people got so worked up over someone calling a game the play a WoW clone. Did WoW pee in your cheerios?

WSIMike

Man, I didn't know people got so worked up over someone calling a game the play a WoW clone. Did WoW pee in your cheerios?

Not at all. I own WoW. Have played it quite a bit and think it's a well-designed game.



Ignorant people repeating a mantra they can't even back-up, however, irk me - in any capacity.



Now, question... Did you have a real point to make here?

Quingu

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Railgunner




1.  Does the developer have any stated long term plans for LOTR?  New features like player housing, etc?



Well, at present, there is one of the major regions of Middle Earth in place - Eriador. Turbine has committed to bi-monthly content updates in which they'll expand on the world, adding a new zone or two, adding new quests, new gear and so forth. Besides that, they're also going to be releasing major expansion packs at intervals; most likely to introduce all new regions to the game, following the path of the Ring East to Mount Doom.
In answer to your question about housing, yep, there are plans for housing... I believe in one of the next updates.
2.  What's the player community like?   Is everyone already at max level or are there still a lot of noobs just getting into the game?



There's a mix of people at all levels. Some people are playing the game in full-on "I just want to get to end-game" mode. Some simply play more and make progress faster. Others are more casual, play less or simply spend more of their time doing a variety of things other than leveling/questing. You'll find all kinds in this game. I know that in pretty much any zone I'm in at a given time, there are people looking for groups to do quests with, etc. In the Ettenmoors (the PvMP zone), there are regularly people looking for a raid team, or announcing where "freeps" have been sighted, etc. In short... I don't think you'd have a hard time finding a group.



-------------
That said... I want to go off topic here a bit and respond, in general, to some of the comments made in this thread, even though they offered nothing in terms of answering your questions.



First, I'm sure I don't need to point out the absurdity of people stating a lack of content in LoTRO after a mere 4 months or so in retail as a "flaw", especially when they compare it to WoW which has been out for 3+ years. That speaks for itself.

As for people knocking it for not being ideal for hardcore players... Well, aside from the fact that it was never marketed to the "hardcore" crowd in the first place, there's an irony in that mentality that I just can't get over. Anyone else remember back when WoW was first released, people - even folks right on this site - were praising Blizzard for finally putting out a game that non "hardcore" players could enjoy without requiring endless hours to do so? Some marked it as the "death of hardcore MMOs", declaring the WoW model as the "way of the future for MMOs". I remember those posts all too well.


Yet, here we are now where any MMO that comes out following that "casual friendly" model is somehow mocked and slammed as being a "WoW clone". The irony of people calling any MMO a "WoW Clone" is self-evident, especially knowing the mentality behind WoW's design. Even more ironic is that many people are still spending endless hours playing it.

Finally, you're going to see alot of people flat out stating the game is "a direct WoW clone". Well, while I'm the last one to dismiss someone's opinion, there's a trend of disingenuous commentary from some here (as in any MMO's forums, of course). Are there similarities? Sure. I won't deny that. However, some people grossly overstate it.



1. First of all, it's based on Tolkien's Middle Earth.. not Blizzard's Azeroth. First obvious indication it's not a direct clone.
2. Entirely different graphics styles. Entirely different graphics engines. Entirely different environment and character design.



3. Third, and most telling of the utter ignorance possessed by some people... People say the controls/interface are a direct copy of WoW's. This is wrong in two ways.



First, I think the people who make that statement must have played WoW as their first and only MMO and have no other game to use as reference. They don't realize that other MMOs that came out well before WoW used the same type of setup - including one of Turbine's own games... Asheron's Call 2, which leads me to my second point...



Second, if Turbine stole the interface for LoTRO from anyone, it was from themselves.
Here's a link to a screenshot of Asheron's Call 2.

http://tinyurl.com/2o9che
Now, here's a pic of LoTRO:

http://tinyurl.com/2j2vk4
Hmm... they're kinda setup similarly, aren't they. Both have their major interface components in the same place and are similar in appearance. Both use WASD to move and numbers corresponding to spots on the hotkey bar... Both use "space" as the default jump button...



Let's look at some dates...
World of Warcraft was first released (in the US, Canada, etc) on November 23, 2004.



Asheron's Call 2 was released on November 22, 2002.

Wow... almost 2 full years before WoW, to the day.


Does that mean I get to claim WoW stole their interface from Asheron's Call 2? If I were as simple-minded and ignorant as some on these forums, I certainly could. But I won't, because even AC2 wasn't the first game to use that type of interface.



The bigger point here is... Word of Warcraft was not the first MMO on the market. The only real "innovation" it introduced was the concept of "casual play". Any other major feature in the game that people love to claim other MMOs have "cloned" from it, have been around in MMOs dating back to MMOs that came out years before it.
So please... get off the "WoW Clone!!!" bandwagon, get a clue and start offering up some better researched arguments, please?
</rant>
I'll now sit here and wait for the inevitable cries of "fanboy!" for making a factually supported argument.
 

QFT

i could just open a thread with that 2 screnns named WOW is an AC2 CLONE. since they copied most things from ac2. pitty 99% of wow players never knew about that game so they think wow was the first lol

Kyleran

Dump all those fantasy games and come play EVE...that's what I did ....

WSIMike

Originally posted by Quingu


 
QFT
 
i could just open a thread with that 2 screnns named WOW is an AC2 CLONE. since they copied most things from ac2. pitty 99% of wow players never knew about that game so they think wow was the first lol

Posted in the spirit of irony and sarcasm, that would be beautiful.

Unfortunately, I think it would fly right over some people's heads; they'd completely miss the point.

Die_Scream

 

Originally posted by WSIMike


 
Originally posted by Quingu


 
QFT
 
i could just open a thread with that 2 screnns named WOW is an AC2 CLONE. since they copied most things from ac2. pitty 99% of wow players never knew about that game so they think wow was the first lol

Posted in the spirit of irony and sarcasm, that would be beautiful.

 

Unfortunately, I think it would fly right over some people's heads; they'd completely miss the point.

Then again, maybe you aren't as smart as you appear to think you are. WoW is the biggest MMO in the world right now, its logical to use WoW as a basis for comparison, since so many of us have played it. Your attempt to dismiss the "LOTRO is a clone" claim by trying to imply that the people who say that haven't played other MMOs, applies to very few people in my experience.

 

You can stick your fingers in your ears and jump up and down screaming that LOTRO isn't like WoW all you like, the truth is, its almost identical in all but the skin. Ok, lets say Turbine did rip them selves off instead with AC2, so its better that LOTRO is a clone of AC2? Ah, so its ok to be a clone, long as WoW isn't mentioned Besides, the UI is a tiny part of a game in the big picture, everything else besides the graphics of LOTRO is a direct clone of WoW, ok, maybe WoW took its UI from Turbine in the first place, but they also made a game around it. Then Turbine took WoW, put a LOTRO skin on it and called it a day.

They did take the time to change some things, like crafting and PVMP.

Look, I can agree that for what it is, LOTRO is a good game, but it is what it is. Another on-rails, easy to play, (but not to often, you powergamer scum!!1) MMO brought to us for the bubble-gum "me-too" ultra casual crowd who loves WoW.