Perhaps - but at least it is somewhat original and it is certainly better than seeing Hobbits duel each other around town. Even if monster play never pans out I give turbine credit for trying to respect lore and still work in some kind of PvP system.
Gotta agree. I love PvP..so I kinda dismiss Pmvp as not "real"..well I used to anyway. Its not bad. Its...fun. It also has alot more potential than first saw in it too. It could really be something cool if they got time to work with..just needs, a greater purpose. Turbine did a good job making you feel like you played a small role in the main story. They just need to do that with PVP..like there is a small role you are playing in the struggle. I cant think of anything..but so far Turbine has my trust on this game at least. So, Im gonna see what they can do with it for now before complaing about everything its not. They got an original Idea..lets see what it turns into before we dismiss it. If nothing else it may spawn something better in a new game. I cant bash any originality unless its wasted. Just my opinion and a little off topic i know.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
I honestly don't see how this post is even remotely on topic. In any case . . .
I think "dumbest idea ever for an MMO" should be reserved for the crafting system in PSU (if you call that an MMO). The only way to get good weapons and armor is to craft them yourself, or buy them from a player that crafted them. In order to have a halfway decent chance of crafting anything, you have to level up your crafter buddy in your apartment. To level him you must feed him consumables and crafting components every hour or so for a few days or weeks. Ok, so you finally get him up to a decent level. You also have to gather all of the hideously rare components that you will need to make a gun or sword or something, or grind out enough gold to buy them. That in of itself could be dozens or hundreds of hours of work. After that, you feed him (well actually "he" should be a 12 year old girl in a dress by then...!?!) all this rare as hell crap. And then you wait an hour.
You come back in an hour and he will have either made what you wanted or set all your rare as hell ingredients on fire and made you a low level healing potion. Assuming that he actually made you an item, it sucks in the raw state. In order to get it to not suck, you have to grind it. The more times you grind a weapon, the better it gets. However, every time you grind a weapon there is a good chance it will explode in your face and become utterly useless. "Whoops, time to start over . . ." Oh yes, and as a bonus, at any time anyone in the game can walk into your apartment and feed your crafting buddy an item that will reset his level to zero. That, in my humble opinion, is the dumbest system ever in MMO.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
I honestly don't see how this post is even remotely on topic. In any case . . .
I think "dumbest idea ever for an MMO" should be reserved for the crafting system in PSU (if you call that an MMO). The only way to get good weapons and armor is to craft them yourself, or buy them from a player that crafted them. In order to have a halfway decent chance of crafting anything, you have to level up your crafter buddy in your apartment. To level him you must feed him consumables and crafting components every hour or so for a few days or weeks. Ok, so you finally get him up to a decent level. You also have to gather all of the hideously rare components that you will need to make a gun or sword or something, or grind out enough gold to buy them. That in of itself could be dozens or hundreds of hours of work. After that, you feed him (well actually "he" should be a 12 year old girl in a dress by then...!?!) all this rare as hell crap. And then you wait an hour.
You come back in an hour and he will have either made what you wanted or set all your rare as hell ingredients on fire and made you a low level healing potion. Assuming that he actually made you an item, it sucks in the raw state. In order to get it to not suck, you have to grind it. The more times you grind a weapon, the better it gets. However, every time you grind a weapon there is a good chance it will explode in your face and become utterly useless. "Whoops, time to start over . . ." Oh yes, and as a bonus, at any time anyone in the game can walk into your apartment and feed your crafting buddy an item that will reset his level to zero. That, in my humble opinion, is the dumbest system ever in MMO.
I think the NGE in SWG wins all dumb awards..for the next 10 years anyways.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
They could have done the x-pac right... They should have required that players complete a quest by killing the end boss in Naxx before opening up the level cap and they could have easily prevented level 60's and 61+ players from joining the same raid to prevent level 70's from running 60's thru Naxx. But no... Blizzard instead choose to just render everyones gear into junk.
It's a good thing you are not in charge of WoW...you'd have been fired with moronic ideas such as this. Many people are tired of the whining nitwits who complain about TBC ruining their BWL and Naxx gear...to friggin bad. The game released and an expansion...that fact that you spent your days raiding in a guild that you happened to be lucky to get into means squat. Grow up and get over yourself and shut up.
Btw...all my gear on my rogue and mage was made useless in TBC too (and yes it was BWL and Naxx gear...on both of them).
As for your question about LoTRO...you will not like it. It's not going to be hardcore enough for you...you will get to the level cap quickly and have little to do...unless you're one of those guys that like to get to the cap fast and go to the lower level zones with your "cool" gear and challenge people to duels while stroking your epeen. Based on your original post...no doubt you are.
They could have done the x-pac right... They should have required that players complete a quest by killing the end boss in Naxx before opening up the level cap and they could have easily prevented level 60's and 61+ players from joining the same raid to prevent level 70's from running 60's thru Naxx. But no... Blizzard instead choose to just render everyones gear into junk.
It's a good thing you are not in charge of WoW...you'd have been fired with moronic ideas such as this. Many people are tired of the whining nitwits who complain about TBC ruining their BWL and Naxx gear...to friggin bad. The game released and an expansion...that fact that you spent your days raiding in a guild that you happened to be lucky to get into means squat. Grow up and get over yourself and shut up.
Btw...all my gear on my rogue and mage was made useless in TBC too (and yes it was BWL and Naxx gear...on both of them).
As for your question about LoTRO...you will not like it. It's not going to be hardcore enough for you...you will get to the level cap quickly and have little to do...unless you're one of those guys that like to get to the cap fast and go to the lower level zones with your "cool" gear and challenge people to duels while stroking your epeen. Based on your original post...no doubt you are.
Way to be a winner!!!
It wont necessarily be to easy for him. Alot of the younger guys I know from WOW thought leveling too difficult because of quests requiring groups. There's nothing in WOW thats hard..just time consuming. Reputaiation and traits are just as time consuming, but instead of one peice of gear that makes you uber, you have to get many smaller bonus' that add up to make you uber. For instance, When i turnd 50 on my Burg..i had like 2000 hp. I saw another lev 50 burg with 3100 hp..all from gear and traits. Thats 1100 hitpoint difference, so items do add up for great bonus...just not one epic item. It takes about the same amount of time as raiding in WOW, but you dont need 8 straight hours of play in a raid 6 nights a week for one item to get your toon where you want. Its just different..doesnt mean he wont like it. People raid in WOW cause thats how you have to do it to beat the game so to speak. In lotr you can do it when you want and not be left behind because you cant spend so much time in game in one day. Im level 50 right now, and to get my toon to where I want it, will take at least another month or two. If they keep adding things at the rate they are, even longer. They just need a purpose to keep advancing your toon past 50. Pmvp is almost it for me personally...its still lacking though.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Perhaps - but at least it is somewhat original and it is certainly better than seeing Hobbits duel each other around town. Even if monster play never pans out I give turbine credit for trying to respect lore and still work in some kind of PvP system.
-agree-
Turbine (or the Publisher) could have said "ah the hell with the lore, this is a game", and catered to the least-common-denominator - the integrity of the lore be damned. They chose to be as loyal as possible to the lore - even with the restrictions it places upon them, in a few areas, and try to find some middle-ground any way that would make as much sense as possible.
PvMP is a great compromise, I think. While it might not be 100% true to the lore, it's far from being in gross violation of it. "Creeps" = Sauron's army = One faction. "Free People" = The Other Faction. Inject the conflict already built-in to the lore, and bam... Good vs. Evil. Light vs. Shadow. A perfect setting for PvP.
It really would be ridiculous to see Hobbits pk'ing Hobbits in the Shire. But, I guess there are some for whom that is worth more than keeping with the lore in the game.
Similarly, they stuck with the lore in the case of lore-masters. Tolkien's idea of magic certainly wasn't as liberal as it is in other stories. Magic is a very restricted thing in Middle Earth; not something anyone can learn and practice. However, knowing that they were entering a market where people are used to having fire-flinging mages, Turbine again had to find a compromise. How do you provide the "mage class" to players, without violating established lore to do so? Their answer was the Lore Master.
It's easy to see what they've created and pick it to death. But if one steps back, looks at what they created, the truly meticulous attention to detail they pay in many areas and how faithfully they've tried to adhere to as much of Tolkien's work as possible - and can be objective about it - I think it's not hard to agree they've done a great job overall. In much the same way that one can really not care for a particular band very much, but can acknowledge that they're good musicians and performers. One does not require the other.
Is it perfect? No, of course not. But I don't think the praise and accolades the game is getting in the media and by word-of-mouth are at all undeserved. And man the word is getting around. I'm running into other players in the most isolated areas more and more lately.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I honestly don't see how this post is even remotely on topic. In any case . . .
I think "dumbest idea ever for an MMO" should be reserved for the crafting system in PSU (if you call that an MMO). The only way to get good weapons and armor is to craft them yourself, or buy them from a player that crafted them. In order to have a halfway decent chance of crafting anything, you have to level up your crafter buddy in your apartment. To level him you must feed him consumables and crafting components every hour or so for a few days or weeks. Ok, so you finally get him up to a decent level. You also have to gather all of the hideously rare components that you will need to make a gun or sword or something, or grind out enough gold to buy them. That in of itself could be dozens or hundreds of hours of work. After that, you feed him (well actually "he" should be a 12 year old girl in a dress by then...!?!) all this rare as hell crap. And then you wait an hour.
You come back in an hour and he will have either made what you wanted or set all your rare as hell ingredients on fire and made you a low level healing potion. Assuming that he actually made you an item, it sucks in the raw state. In order to get it to not suck, you have to grind it. The more times you grind a weapon, the better it gets. However, every time you grind a weapon there is a good chance it will explode in your face and become utterly useless. "Whoops, time to start over . . ." Oh yes, and as a bonus, at any time anyone in the game can walk into your apartment and feed your crafting buddy an item that will reset his level to zero. That, in my humble opinion, is the dumbest system ever in MMO.
I think the NGE in SWG wins all dumb awards..for the next 10 years anyways.
Damn, you win. Ok second dumbest
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Others have said mostly everything, though a few go overboard with extremes. Both WoW and LOTRO are good games, WoW being the uber-grand-daddy. There are reasons why WoW is so popular.
WoW and LOTRO are different. Sure the interface and controls and ideas are similar, but there were similar interfaces many many years before them and before any of the games mentioned here in this thread. MMO's have existed for 30+ years. The interfaces have evolved over the years, and why change? Everyone knows WASD movement, spacebar jump, etc.
So on comparisons. If you were a heavy raider in WoW, I would agree you probably won't care for LOTRO.
I am -not- a big raider, but didn't care for LOTRO either. I found the content very boring, and no way to distinguish one character from another. One thing WoW does a -great- job on is "dangling a carrot in front of your face". Better gear -looks- better on your character. LOTRO suffers from same-itis. I was watching some monster play the other day and pretty much all the PCs looked alike. Faces all looked the same, all the same cloaks (just some colored slightly differently) etc. All the same looking weapons, all the same looking armor.
There really was no way to tell who was more veteran than anyone else other than their names or stars in the interface. I much prefer standing before a veteran and -knowing- just by looking at them that they've been places. It even gives jump start to RP. "say, that is spectacular armor sir, may I inquire where you acquired it?" sounds much more interesting then "Hi, your cloak looks just like mine but red. Neat."
WoW runs a whole heck of a lot smoother (obviously the graphics are very much more "stylistic" and less "realistic" than LOTRO)
Monster play - I loved the idea. Hate the implementation.
Role play - seems about similar if you get on a good WoW RP server (yes there are excellent RP'ers that play WoW) and stay far away from PvP servers. Same with LOTRO, some servers are far better than other servers.
Community - again, depending on server and what you're looking for.
Personally, I'm VERY much looking forward to when WAR comes out. I think most of the people who call others "noobs" will leave WoW for WAR. /clap. I'm guessing -both- LOTRO and WoW will improve.
Long term, I am not certain LOTRO has staying power. Unless you enjoy just sitting around chatting with friends (fun sometimes, but I do like some adventure with my RP) it may not. I do feel constrained by LOTRO timeline. It doesn't feel open and dynamic. Everyone in every village is depressed.
It will be most interesting to see how LOTRO develops....
Perhaps - but at least it is somewhat original and it is certainly better than seeing Hobbits duel each other around town. Even if monster play never pans out I give turbine credit for trying to respect lore and still work in some kind of PvP system.
WoW is not the grand daddy of all mmos. That would be UO or EQ depending on your flavor of preference. Wow just took many of the good things from other games and made them better. There is nothing wrong with that but it is not earth shattering. I do agree that WoW has some nice looking gear. It is better than LOTRO. They have to hold up some carrot to get you to raids for months and months. ( I know I did it and it made me despise the game). It will be hard to entirely new to the community for any new mmo. How many of any game gender are truly new in the fact that no one has dome that. They may have some new facet of play that is exciting but the rest is based on what has come before it. That is how most things in life are. Warhammer is a game that is getting geat press. It is a game that i a looking forward to. I loved DAOC and expect Warhammer to be a greatly improved but still somewaht similar game to DAOC. I do want them to throw all that was good about DAOC to just be different. WoW and Lotro and are not pvp centric games. Theyy are pve games that have pvp added. That means they are not going to offer a great pvp experience. That is not what they are about. I would say to the original poster that there is now a free trial. You need to play it and see what you think. There is no way anyone can answer your question. I akso want to rpeat that LOTRO is a very young game and some of this sameness of look ( a problem yes whats is with the cloaks? ) will more than l;ikel;y be fixed. I am sure end gae content will improve. If the original poster started WoW at day one he would know that what 60's did for fun then was kill low levels as they had no real end game to talk about. That might sound familiar. For those that long for a skill based and not level based game I do to. That was a strength of UO but desiners have gone down the path EQ chose.
OK... I was a hardcore WOW raider for about 2 years. MT of a large guild. One of just a few warriors on my realm with full T2 Wrath back before Naxx. Anyway, I quit WOW shortly before the 1st x-pac. I was pissed that Blizzard showed such contempt for the time serious players had invested in character development when they basically rendering all existing gear (and rep) junk in the x-pac. They could have done the x-pac right... They should have required that players complete a quest by killing the end boss in Naxx before opening up the level cap and they could have easily prevented level 60's and 61+ players from joining the same raid to prevent level 70's from running 60's thru Naxx. But no... Blizzard instead choose to just render everyones gear into junk. I had hoped to get into AOC but now that's it's been delayed I'm tired of waiting for a new game and I'm thinking about trying LOTR. My questions are... 1. Does the developer have any stated long term plans for LOTR? New features like player housing, etc? 2. What's the player community like? Is everyone already at max level or are there still a lot of noobs just getting into the game?
I just don't get this philosophy, though I have seen it 1000s of times....
So you are a hardcore raider who doesn't want to obtain new better gear in new content? Isn't that an oxymoron? I mean, if you are a hardcore raider, you'd think it'd be because you enjoy raiding for better gear; but apparently you want your existing gear to be the best through how many expansions? Forever? So what exactly do you want to raid for? Items worse than what you already have? Glory? It just doesn't make sense to me.
And two....you point to Blizzard's 'disrespect' for those 'who worked so hard' etc. etc. That is an awful high and mighty tone to take. You pay the same subscription amount as someone who logs in once a year, Blizzard owe's them as much as they do you. You aren't employed by Blizzard, so you aren't rewarded 'loyalty' points for being a harder worker. Your time in the game is your choice and no one owes you anything for the choice you made. Blizzard has an equal responsibility to the people who choose not to go the raiding route, the casual gamer is financially equal to anyone else playing the game. What if some people just don't have the time to do a final raid mob to unlock lvls? What if they play an hour a week? So.......your idea is to exclude every casual gamer from an expansion that they are paying for, all because you, 'a hardcore raider', doesn't want to raid for better gear....ludicrous and selfish.
You said you don't get it... It's common sense. There's a general assuption in life that you get out of it, what you put into it.
Let me give you an analogy... Say you're a baseball player. You spend years perfecting your skills, make it into the major leages. You've hit 600 homes runs... You're proud of what you've accomplished and then they change the rules...
They change the baseball to a new ball made of rubber and bam... the next week baseball "noobs" are knocking the ball out of the park everywhere. Within a month thousands of players have hit 600 home runs and before long no one even goes to the old parks anymore because they are not challenging enough. Instead they go to new parks with fields that are twice as large.
What have you done? Oh look, everyone can be in the major leagues now! Nah, what you've really done is screwed up the game and screwed all the players who earned their stats and positions the "hard way".
Blizzard could have easily done the x-pac's right. Just require that existing players finish existing content to complete a quest to allow them to level another 10 levels and prevent raids from being formed with 60's and 61+ players. If Blizzard had done this, new players would still be running MC, BWL, and Ony.
Oh, but they wouldn't have sold many copies of the x-pac if they had done that you might say. Sure they could have. Simply add some new level 60 instances too.
You said you don't get it... It's common sense. There's a general assuption in life that you get out of it, what you put into it. Let me give you an analogy... Say you're a baseball player. You spend years perfecting your skills, make it into the major leages. You've hit 600 homes runs... You're proud of what you've accomplished and then they change the rules... They change the baseball to a new ball made of rubber and bam... the next week baseball "noobs" are knocking the ball out of the park everywhere. Within a month thousands of players have hit 600 home runs and before long no one even goes to the old parks anymore because they are not challenging enough. Instead they go to new parks with fields that are twice as large. What have you done? Oh look, everyone can be in the major leagues now! Nah, what you've really done is screwed up the game and screwed all the players who earned their stats and positions the "hard way". Blizzard could have easily done the x-pac's right. Just require that existing players finish existing content to complete a quest to allow them to level another 10 levels and prevent raids from being formed with 60's and 61+ players. If Blizzard had done this, new players would still be running MC, BWL, and Ony. Oh, but they wouldn't have sold many copies of the x-pac if they had done that you might say. Sure they could have. Simply add some new level 60 instances too.
Well then to answer what i think is your real question . . .
In LoTRO there really is no way to dump a shit ton of time into the game and get gear that will forever be out of reach of the "moutbreathing masses" that only play 5-10 hours a week and aren't in raiding guilds. Raid sets look cooler, but they have stats no better than a critted one shot crafting recipe made with rare components (which is itself something of a time investment, but less painfull than raiding because it can be incremented and soloed). So there really is no way for a raider to trully "distinguish" themselves with gear.
There is also no reason to think, even if you did get the best gear in game currently, that Turbine won't reset the ceiling in future expansions and make the current high end crafted and/ or raided gear look crappy in comparison to new gear that they add (which might even be easier to get than the current high end gear). So no, I don't think you'd like LoTRO.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Perhaps - but at least it is somewhat original and it is certainly better than seeing Hobbits duel each other around town. Even if monster play never pans out I give turbine credit for trying to respect lore and still work in some kind of PvP system.
Hardly original.
EQ1 had something very similar over 3 years ago.
Link please
Playing:World of Warcraft. Played:Lord of the Rings Online, Starwars Galaxies. Tried:Starwars the Old Republic, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, Vanguard, Age of Conan, Aion.
Perhaps - but at least it is somewhat original and it is certainly better than seeing Hobbits duel each other around town. Even if monster play never pans out I give turbine credit for trying to respect lore and still work in some kind of PvP system.
Hardly original.
EQ1 had something very similar over 3 years ago.
Link please
I believe that L is referring to a very brief failed experiment in EQ 1. For something like three weeks they allowed you to log is as a random low level monster in the lowbie areas. You could gain levels by killing players or random trash mobs. They ditched it pretty fast because (a) it wasn't very fun and (b) it was far too easily exploited.
Not too many people I've met are aware of it (props for arcane EQ 1 knowledge to L btw), and there is very little info on it on the web. It's like SOE wants to pretend it never happened. I seriously doubt it was the inspiration for PvMP, but who knows. I mean it may have inspired PvMP the same way that the first person to throw a rock inspired the first catapult, but I personally wouldn't give the guy who threw the rock much credit. The fact remains that Lainna is ostensibly correct. SOE did do something vaugley similar (but much simpler) for a few weeks years ago....
Regardless, L's point is overblown..."very similar" is an exaggeration (I might go for "somewhat similar "). You started at low level (level 1 if I recall right), you weren't in a zone designed around PvMP, your monsters got few (if any) abilities as they leveled up, you didn't have keep defense, summonable "uber monsters", or any of the other intricacies of PvMP, and you didn'ty have any sort of quest chains for your monsters. It was a novelty at best, to me bearing only a passing resemblance to the PvP/ Raid/ Monster Alt system we have in LoTRO. I think it's more accurate to say that PvMP is a mashup of systems from several games (EQ 1, DAoC, GW) that is overall pretty original.
I'm assuming L is not referring to shrouds, which isn't even a PvP system. It's designed as a way for high level characters to "level down" and hang out with their buddies. It bears even less resemblance to PvMP, but I think I've gone on long enough.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Perhaps - but at least it is somewhat original and it is certainly better than seeing Hobbits duel each other around town. Even if monster play never pans out I give turbine credit for trying to respect lore and still work in some kind of PvP system.
Hardly original.
EQ1 had something very similar over 3 years ago.
Link please
I believe that L is referring to a very brief failed experiment in EQ 1. For something like three weeks they allowed you to log is as a random low level monster in the lowbie areas. You could gain levels by killing players or random trash mobs. They ditched it pretty fast because (a) it wasn't very fun and (b) it was far too easily exploited.
Not too many people I've met are aware of it (props for arcane EQ 1 knowledge to L btw), and there is very little info on it on the web. It's like SOE wants to pretend it never happened. I seriously doubt it was the inspiration for PvMP, but who knows. I mean it may have inspired PvMP the same way that the first person to throw a rock inspired the first catapult, but I personally wouldn't give the guy who threw the rock much credit. The fact remains that Lainna is ostensibly correct. SOE did do something vaugley similar (but much simpler) for a few weeks years ago....
Regardless, L's point is overblown..."very similar" is an exaggeration (I might go for "somewhat similar "). You started at low level (level 1 if I recall right), you weren't in a zone designed around PvMP, your monsters got few (if any) abilities as they leveled up, you didn't have keep defense, summonable "uber monsters", or any of the other intricacies of PvMP, and you didn'ty have any sort of quest chains for your monsters. It was a novelty at best, to me bearing only a passing resemblance to the PvP/ Raid/ Monster Alt system we have in LoTRO. I think it's more accurate to say that PvMP is a mashup of systems from several games (EQ 1, DAoC, GW) that is overall pretty original.
I'm assuming L is not referring to shrouds, which isn't even a PvP system. It's designed as a way for high level characters to "level down" and hang out with their buddies. It bears even less resemblance to PvMP, but I think I've gone on long enough.
LOL...ok thanks , i was just intrested in what it realy was...but yea as its soe i sould have known better then to get any serius comments from Laiina, a soe fanboy.
Playing:World of Warcraft. Played:Lord of the Rings Online, Starwars Galaxies. Tried:Starwars the Old Republic, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, Vanguard, Age of Conan, Aion.
Here are the patch notes from November 2001 for EQ1
" November 7th, 3:00 am
------------------------------
** Project M Implemented **
Tonight we have patched something to the PvP servers that many players have been waiting for. The ability to play that gnoll, orc, or the cute and fuzzy rat. On your character select screen you will notice another button in the upper right part of your screen called "Monster". Clicking this button will randomly place you in a low-level NPC in a random zone. You will be given full control of the creature to do with it what you like. You may hunt and kill other creatures. You may even attack other players.
Some things to remember when playing your own personal monster (NPC)...."
I never said it was the same, what I said was that it was not original. Maybe "very similar" was pushing it.
Actually I was off quite a bit in that "3 years". Here are the patch notes from November 2001 for EQ1
" November 7th, 3:00 am
------------------------------
** Project M Implemented **
Tonight we have patched something to the PvP servers that many players have been waiting for. The ability to play that gnoll, orc, or the cute and fuzzy rat. On your character select screen you will notice another button in the upper right part of your screen called "Monster". Clicking this button will randomly place you in a low-level NPC in a random zone. You will be given full control of the creature to do with it what you like. You may hunt and kill other creatures. You may even attack other players.
Some things to remember when playing your own personal monster (NPC)...." I never said it was the same, what I said was that it was not original. Maybe "very similar" was pushing it.
Wow, good find. You must have had to dig through a ton patch notes.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Comments
Perhaps - but at least it is somewhat original and it is certainly better than seeing Hobbits duel each other around town. Even if monster play never pans out I give turbine credit for trying to respect lore and still work in some kind of PvP system.
Gotta agree. I love PvP..so I kinda dismiss Pmvp as not "real"..well I used to anyway. Its not bad. Its...fun. It also has alot more potential than first saw in it too. It could really be something cool if they got time to work with..just needs, a greater purpose. Turbine did a good job making you feel like you played a small role in the main story. They just need to do that with PVP..like there is a small role you are playing in the struggle. I cant think of anything..but so far Turbine has my trust on this game at least. So, Im gonna see what they can do with it for now before complaing about everything its not. They got an original Idea..lets see what it turns into before we dismiss it. If nothing else it may spawn something better in a new game. I cant bash any originality unless its wasted. Just my opinion and a little off topic i know.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
I honestly don't see how this post is even remotely on topic. In any case . . .
I think "dumbest idea ever for an MMO" should be reserved for the crafting system in PSU (if you call that an MMO). The only way to get good weapons and armor is to craft them yourself, or buy them from a player that crafted them. In order to have a halfway decent chance of crafting anything, you have to level up your crafter buddy in your apartment. To level him you must feed him consumables and crafting components every hour or so for a few days or weeks. Ok, so you finally get him up to a decent level. You also have to gather all of the hideously rare components that you will need to make a gun or sword or something, or grind out enough gold to buy them. That in of itself could be dozens or hundreds of hours of work. After that, you feed him (well actually "he" should be a 12 year old girl in a dress by then...!?!) all this rare as hell crap. And then you wait an hour.
You come back in an hour and he will have either made what you wanted or set all your rare as hell ingredients on fire and made you a low level healing potion. Assuming that he actually made you an item, it sucks in the raw state. In order to get it to not suck, you have to grind it. The more times you grind a weapon, the better it gets. However, every time you grind a weapon there is a good chance it will explode in your face and become utterly useless. "Whoops, time to start over . . ." Oh yes, and as a bonus, at any time anyone in the game can walk into your apartment and feed your crafting buddy an item that will reset his level to zero. That, in my humble opinion, is the dumbest system ever in MMO.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
I honestly don't see how this post is even remotely on topic. In any case . . .
I think "dumbest idea ever for an MMO" should be reserved for the crafting system in PSU (if you call that an MMO). The only way to get good weapons and armor is to craft them yourself, or buy them from a player that crafted them. In order to have a halfway decent chance of crafting anything, you have to level up your crafter buddy in your apartment. To level him you must feed him consumables and crafting components every hour or so for a few days or weeks. Ok, so you finally get him up to a decent level. You also have to gather all of the hideously rare components that you will need to make a gun or sword or something, or grind out enough gold to buy them. That in of itself could be dozens or hundreds of hours of work. After that, you feed him (well actually "he" should be a 12 year old girl in a dress by then...!?!) all this rare as hell crap. And then you wait an hour.
You come back in an hour and he will have either made what you wanted or set all your rare as hell ingredients on fire and made you a low level healing potion. Assuming that he actually made you an item, it sucks in the raw state. In order to get it to not suck, you have to grind it. The more times you grind a weapon, the better it gets. However, every time you grind a weapon there is a good chance it will explode in your face and become utterly useless. "Whoops, time to start over . . ." Oh yes, and as a bonus, at any time anyone in the game can walk into your apartment and feed your crafting buddy an item that will reset his level to zero. That, in my humble opinion, is the dumbest system ever in MMO.
I think the NGE in SWG wins all dumb awards..for the next 10 years anyways.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Btw...all my gear on my rogue and mage was made useless in TBC too (and yes it was BWL and Naxx gear...on both of them).
As for your question about LoTRO...you will not like it. It's not going to be hardcore enough for you...you will get to the level cap quickly and have little to do...unless you're one of those guys that like to get to the cap fast and go to the lower level zones with your "cool" gear and challenge people to duels while stroking your epeen. Based on your original post...no doubt you are.
Btw...all my gear on my rogue and mage was made useless in TBC too (and yes it was BWL and Naxx gear...on both of them).
As for your question about LoTRO...you will not like it. It's not going to be hardcore enough for you...you will get to the level cap quickly and have little to do...unless you're one of those guys that like to get to the cap fast and go to the lower level zones with your "cool" gear and challenge people to duels while stroking your epeen. Based on your original post...no doubt you are.
It wont necessarily be to easy for him. Alot of the younger guys I know from WOW thought leveling too difficult because of quests requiring groups. There's nothing in WOW thats hard..just time consuming. Reputaiation and traits are just as time consuming, but instead of one peice of gear that makes you uber, you have to get many smaller bonus' that add up to make you uber. For instance, When i turnd 50 on my Burg..i had like 2000 hp. I saw another lev 50 burg with 3100 hp..all from gear and traits. Thats 1100 hitpoint difference, so items do add up for great bonus...just not one epic item. It takes about the same amount of time as raiding in WOW, but you dont need 8 straight hours of play in a raid 6 nights a week for one item to get your toon where you want. Its just different..doesnt mean he wont like it. People raid in WOW cause thats how you have to do it to beat the game so to speak. In lotr you can do it when you want and not be left behind because you cant spend so much time in game in one day. Im level 50 right now, and to get my toon to where I want it, will take at least another month or two. If they keep adding things at the rate they are, even longer. They just need a purpose to keep advancing your toon past 50. Pmvp is almost it for me personally...its still lacking though.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Perhaps - but at least it is somewhat original and it is certainly better than seeing Hobbits duel each other around town. Even if monster play never pans out I give turbine credit for trying to respect lore and still work in some kind of PvP system.
-agree-
Turbine (or the Publisher) could have said "ah the hell with the lore, this is a game", and catered to the least-common-denominator - the integrity of the lore be damned. They chose to be as loyal as possible to the lore - even with the restrictions it places upon them, in a few areas, and try to find some middle-ground any way that would make as much sense as possible.
PvMP is a great compromise, I think. While it might not be 100% true to the lore, it's far from being in gross violation of it. "Creeps" = Sauron's army = One faction. "Free People" = The Other Faction. Inject the conflict already built-in to the lore, and bam... Good vs. Evil. Light vs. Shadow. A perfect setting for PvP.
It really would be ridiculous to see Hobbits pk'ing Hobbits in the Shire. But, I guess there are some for whom that is worth more than keeping with the lore in the game.
Similarly, they stuck with the lore in the case of lore-masters. Tolkien's idea of magic certainly wasn't as liberal as it is in other stories. Magic is a very restricted thing in Middle Earth; not something anyone can learn and practice. However, knowing that they were entering a market where people are used to having fire-flinging mages, Turbine again had to find a compromise. How do you provide the "mage class" to players, without violating established lore to do so? Their answer was the Lore Master.
It's easy to see what they've created and pick it to death. But if one steps back, looks at what they created, the truly meticulous attention to detail they pay in many areas and how faithfully they've tried to adhere to as much of Tolkien's work as possible - and can be objective about it - I think it's not hard to agree they've done a great job overall. In much the same way that one can really not care for a particular band very much, but can acknowledge that they're good musicians and performers. One does not require the other.
Is it perfect? No, of course not. But I don't think the praise and accolades the game is getting in the media and by word-of-mouth are at all undeserved. And man the word is getting around. I'm running into other players in the most isolated areas more and more lately.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
This is 100% true of WoW...and all MMOs in general.
I honestly don't see how this post is even remotely on topic. In any case . . .
I think "dumbest idea ever for an MMO" should be reserved for the crafting system in PSU (if you call that an MMO). The only way to get good weapons and armor is to craft them yourself, or buy them from a player that crafted them. In order to have a halfway decent chance of crafting anything, you have to level up your crafter buddy in your apartment. To level him you must feed him consumables and crafting components every hour or so for a few days or weeks. Ok, so you finally get him up to a decent level. You also have to gather all of the hideously rare components that you will need to make a gun or sword or something, or grind out enough gold to buy them. That in of itself could be dozens or hundreds of hours of work. After that, you feed him (well actually "he" should be a 12 year old girl in a dress by then...!?!) all this rare as hell crap. And then you wait an hour.
You come back in an hour and he will have either made what you wanted or set all your rare as hell ingredients on fire and made you a low level healing potion. Assuming that he actually made you an item, it sucks in the raw state. In order to get it to not suck, you have to grind it. The more times you grind a weapon, the better it gets. However, every time you grind a weapon there is a good chance it will explode in your face and become utterly useless. "Whoops, time to start over . . ." Oh yes, and as a bonus, at any time anyone in the game can walk into your apartment and feed your crafting buddy an item that will reset his level to zero. That, in my humble opinion, is the dumbest system ever in MMO.
I think the NGE in SWG wins all dumb awards..for the next 10 years anyways.
Damn, you win. Ok second dumbest
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Others have said mostly everything, though a few go overboard with extremes. Both WoW and LOTRO are good games, WoW being the uber-grand-daddy. There are reasons why WoW is so popular.
WoW and LOTRO are different. Sure the interface and controls and ideas are similar, but there were similar interfaces many many years before them and before any of the games mentioned here in this thread. MMO's have existed for 30+ years. The interfaces have evolved over the years, and why change? Everyone knows WASD movement, spacebar jump, etc.
So on comparisons. If you were a heavy raider in WoW, I would agree you probably won't care for LOTRO.
I am -not- a big raider, but didn't care for LOTRO either. I found the content very boring, and no way to distinguish one character from another. One thing WoW does a -great- job on is "dangling a carrot in front of your face". Better gear -looks- better on your character. LOTRO suffers from same-itis. I was watching some monster play the other day and pretty much all the PCs looked alike. Faces all looked the same, all the same cloaks (just some colored slightly differently) etc. All the same looking weapons, all the same looking armor.
There really was no way to tell who was more veteran than anyone else other than their names or stars in the interface. I much prefer standing before a veteran and -knowing- just by looking at them that they've been places. It even gives jump start to RP. "say, that is spectacular armor sir, may I inquire where you acquired it?" sounds much more interesting then "Hi, your cloak looks just like mine but red. Neat."
WoW runs a whole heck of a lot smoother (obviously the graphics are very much more "stylistic" and less "realistic" than LOTRO)
Monster play - I loved the idea. Hate the implementation.
Role play - seems about similar if you get on a good WoW RP server (yes there are excellent RP'ers that play WoW) and stay far away from PvP servers. Same with LOTRO, some servers are far better than other servers.
Community - again, depending on server and what you're looking for.
Personally, I'm VERY much looking forward to when WAR comes out. I think most of the people who call others "noobs" will leave WoW for WAR. /clap. I'm guessing -both- LOTRO and WoW will improve.
Long term, I am not certain LOTRO has staying power. Unless you enjoy just sitting around chatting with friends (fun sometimes, but I do like some adventure with my RP) it may not. I do feel constrained by LOTRO timeline. It doesn't feel open and dynamic. Everyone in every village is depressed.
It will be most interesting to see how LOTRO develops....
Perhaps - but at least it is somewhat original and it is certainly better than seeing Hobbits duel each other around town. Even if monster play never pans out I give turbine credit for trying to respect lore and still work in some kind of PvP system.
Hardly original.
EQ1 had something very similar over 3 years ago.
WoW is not the grand daddy of all mmos. That would be UO or EQ depending on your flavor of preference. Wow just took many of the good things from other games and made them better. There is nothing wrong with that but it is not earth shattering. I do agree that WoW has some nice looking gear. It is better than LOTRO. They have to hold up some carrot to get you to raids for months and months. ( I know I did it and it made me despise the game). It will be hard to entirely new to the community for any new mmo. How many of any game gender are truly new in the fact that no one has dome that. They may have some new facet of play that is exciting but the rest is based on what has come before it. That is how most things in life are. Warhammer is a game that is getting geat press. It is a game that i a looking forward to. I loved DAOC and expect Warhammer to be a greatly improved but still somewaht similar game to DAOC. I do want them to throw all that was good about DAOC to just be different. WoW and Lotro and are not pvp centric games. Theyy are pve games that have pvp added. That means they are not going to offer a great pvp experience. That is not what they are about. I would say to the original poster that there is now a free trial. You need to play it and see what you think. There is no way anyone can answer your question. I akso want to rpeat that LOTRO is a very young game and some of this sameness of look ( a problem yes whats is with the cloaks? ) will more than l;ikel;y be fixed. I am sure end gae content will improve. If the original poster started WoW at day one he would know that what 60's did for fun then was kill low levels as they had no real end game to talk about. That might sound familiar. For those that long for a skill based and not level based game I do to. That was a strength of UO but desiners have gone down the path EQ chose.
down the EQ path so that is not seen.
I just don't get this philosophy, though I have seen it 1000s of times....
So you are a hardcore raider who doesn't want to obtain new better gear in new content? Isn't that an oxymoron? I mean, if you are a hardcore raider, you'd think it'd be because you enjoy raiding for better gear; but apparently you want your existing gear to be the best through how many expansions? Forever? So what exactly do you want to raid for? Items worse than what you already have? Glory? It just doesn't make sense to me.
And two....you point to Blizzard's 'disrespect' for those 'who worked so hard' etc. etc. That is an awful high and mighty tone to take. You pay the same subscription amount as someone who logs in once a year, Blizzard owe's them as much as they do you. You aren't employed by Blizzard, so you aren't rewarded 'loyalty' points for being a harder worker. Your time in the game is your choice and no one owes you anything for the choice you made. Blizzard has an equal responsibility to the people who choose not to go the raiding route, the casual gamer is financially equal to anyone else playing the game. What if some people just don't have the time to do a final raid mob to unlock lvls? What if they play an hour a week? So.......your idea is to exclude every casual gamer from an expansion that they are paying for, all because you, 'a hardcore raider', doesn't want to raid for better gear....ludicrous and selfish.
You said you don't get it... It's common sense. There's a general assuption in life that you get out of it, what you put into it.
Let me give you an analogy... Say you're a baseball player. You spend years perfecting your skills, make it into the major leages. You've hit 600 homes runs... You're proud of what you've accomplished and then they change the rules...
They change the baseball to a new ball made of rubber and bam... the next week baseball "noobs" are knocking the ball out of the park everywhere. Within a month thousands of players have hit 600 home runs and before long no one even goes to the old parks anymore because they are not challenging enough. Instead they go to new parks with fields that are twice as large.
What have you done? Oh look, everyone can be in the major leagues now! Nah, what you've really done is screwed up the game and screwed all the players who earned their stats and positions the "hard way".
Blizzard could have easily done the x-pac's right. Just require that existing players finish existing content to complete a quest to allow them to level another 10 levels and prevent raids from being formed with 60's and 61+ players. If Blizzard had done this, new players would still be running MC, BWL, and Ony.
Oh, but they wouldn't have sold many copies of the x-pac if they had done that you might say. Sure they could have. Simply add some new level 60 instances too.
Well then to answer what i think is your real question . . .In LoTRO there really is no way to dump a shit ton of time into the game and get gear that will forever be out of reach of the "moutbreathing masses" that only play 5-10 hours a week and aren't in raiding guilds. Raid sets look cooler, but they have stats no better than a critted one shot crafting recipe made with rare components (which is itself something of a time investment, but less painfull than raiding because it can be incremented and soloed). So there really is no way for a raider to trully "distinguish" themselves with gear.
There is also no reason to think, even if you did get the best gear in game currently, that Turbine won't reset the ceiling in future expansions and make the current high end crafted and/ or raided gear look crappy in comparison to new gear that they add (which might even be easier to get than the current high end gear). So no, I don't think you'd like LoTRO.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Perhaps - but at least it is somewhat original and it is certainly better than seeing Hobbits duel each other around town. Even if monster play never pans out I give turbine credit for trying to respect lore and still work in some kind of PvP system.
Hardly original.
EQ1 had something very similar over 3 years ago.
Link please
Playing: World of Warcraft.
Played: Lord of the Rings Online, Starwars Galaxies.
Tried: Starwars the Old Republic, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, Vanguard, Age of Conan, Aion.
Perhaps - but at least it is somewhat original and it is certainly better than seeing Hobbits duel each other around town. Even if monster play never pans out I give turbine credit for trying to respect lore and still work in some kind of PvP system.
Hardly original.
EQ1 had something very similar over 3 years ago.
Link please
I believe that L is referring to a very brief failed experiment in EQ 1. For something like three weeks they allowed you to log is as a random low level monster in the lowbie areas. You could gain levels by killing players or random trash mobs. They ditched it pretty fast because (a) it wasn't very fun and (b) it was far too easily exploited.
Not too many people I've met are aware of it (props for arcane EQ 1 knowledge to L btw), and there is very little info on it on the web. It's like SOE wants to pretend it never happened. I seriously doubt it was the inspiration for PvMP, but who knows. I mean it may have inspired PvMP the same way that the first person to throw a rock inspired the first catapult, but I personally wouldn't give the guy who threw the rock much credit. The fact remains that Lainna is ostensibly correct. SOE did do something vaugley similar (but much simpler) for a few weeks years ago....
Regardless, L's point is overblown..."very similar" is an exaggeration (I might go for "somewhat similar "). You started at low level (level 1 if I recall right), you weren't in a zone designed around PvMP, your monsters got few (if any) abilities as they leveled up, you didn't have keep defense, summonable "uber monsters", or any of the other intricacies of PvMP, and you didn'ty have any sort of quest chains for your monsters. It was a novelty at best, to me bearing only a passing resemblance to the PvP/ Raid/ Monster Alt system we have in LoTRO. I think it's more accurate to say that PvMP is a mashup of systems from several games (EQ 1, DAoC, GW) that is overall pretty original.
I'm assuming L is not referring to shrouds, which isn't even a PvP system. It's designed as a way for high level characters to "level down" and hang out with their buddies. It bears even less resemblance to PvMP, but I think I've gone on long enough.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Perhaps - but at least it is somewhat original and it is certainly better than seeing Hobbits duel each other around town. Even if monster play never pans out I give turbine credit for trying to respect lore and still work in some kind of PvP system.
Hardly original.
EQ1 had something very similar over 3 years ago.
Link please
I believe that L is referring to a very brief failed experiment in EQ 1. For something like three weeks they allowed you to log is as a random low level monster in the lowbie areas. You could gain levels by killing players or random trash mobs. They ditched it pretty fast because (a) it wasn't very fun and (b) it was far too easily exploited.
Not too many people I've met are aware of it (props for arcane EQ 1 knowledge to L btw), and there is very little info on it on the web. It's like SOE wants to pretend it never happened. I seriously doubt it was the inspiration for PvMP, but who knows. I mean it may have inspired PvMP the same way that the first person to throw a rock inspired the first catapult, but I personally wouldn't give the guy who threw the rock much credit. The fact remains that Lainna is ostensibly correct. SOE did do something vaugley similar (but much simpler) for a few weeks years ago....
Regardless, L's point is overblown..."very similar" is an exaggeration (I might go for "somewhat similar "). You started at low level (level 1 if I recall right), you weren't in a zone designed around PvMP, your monsters got few (if any) abilities as they leveled up, you didn't have keep defense, summonable "uber monsters", or any of the other intricacies of PvMP, and you didn'ty have any sort of quest chains for your monsters. It was a novelty at best, to me bearing only a passing resemblance to the PvP/ Raid/ Monster Alt system we have in LoTRO. I think it's more accurate to say that PvMP is a mashup of systems from several games (EQ 1, DAoC, GW) that is overall pretty original.
I'm assuming L is not referring to shrouds, which isn't even a PvP system. It's designed as a way for high level characters to "level down" and hang out with their buddies. It bears even less resemblance to PvMP, but I think I've gone on long enough.
LOL...ok thanks , i was just intrested in what it realy was...but yea as its soe i sould have known better then to get any serius comments from Laiina, a soe fanboy.
Playing: World of Warcraft.
Played: Lord of the Rings Online, Starwars Galaxies.
Tried: Starwars the Old Republic, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, Vanguard, Age of Conan, Aion.
Actually I was off quite a bit in that "3 years".
Here are the patch notes from November 2001 for EQ1
" November 7th, 3:00 am
------------------------------
** Project M Implemented **
Tonight we have patched something to the PvP servers that many players have been waiting for. The ability to play that gnoll, orc, or the cute and fuzzy rat. On your character select screen you will notice another button in the upper right part of your screen called "Monster". Clicking this button will randomly place you in a low-level NPC in a random zone. You will be given full control of the creature to do with it what you like. You may hunt and kill other creatures. You may even attack other players.
Some things to remember when playing your own personal monster (NPC)...."
I never said it was the same, what I said was that it was not original. Maybe "very similar" was pushing it.
Wow, good find. You must have had to dig through a ton patch notes.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.