i also dont remember them saying they were near completion, we can go back and forth all day. They are still finishing animations, if thery havent even finished the small stuff i doubt they finished the more complicated stuff
Game wise yes. Read the latest warcry. Their just finishing up this and tweaking that. Small details such as those are usually the last thing to be done.
i also dont remember them saying they were near completion, we can go back and forth all day. They are still finishing animations, if thery havent even finished the small stuff i doubt they finished the more complicated stuff
Game wise yes. Read the latest warcry. Their just finishing up this and tweaking that. Small details such as those are usually the last thing to be done.
if this were the case they would have servers by now. But they dont so, there doing something or having a problem with something their not telling us about. No i highly doubt they will have a beta this year
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
i also dont remember them saying they were near completion, we can go back and forth all day. They are still finishing animations, if thery havent even finished the small stuff i doubt they finished the more complicated stuff
Game wise yes. Read the latest warcry. Their just finishing up this and tweaking that. Small details such as those are usually the last thing to be done.
if this were the case they would have servers by now. But they dont so, there doing something or having a problem with something their not telling us about. No i highly doubt they will have a beta this year
They do have servers that they use to show potential investors and I'm sure that they have servers to test the game themselves. Now if your talking about servers for beta that is tied into publishing and there was a thread that had that if you feel like reading.
I didnt even bother to read through all the useless hater posts and all their silly excuses, but:
This game will come out by at least Q2-3 of next year, expecting a beta around christmas... So its all good.
lol! Keep dreaming
Yes because having an almost complete game must mean another 2-3 years of development.
And having no evidence of it at all means that it's "almost complete" . He has far more proof of it not coming out, than you do of it coming out.
Besides, if the game doesn't hit beta by around February, the loans will catch up to it and cripple it. Assuming it still has metaphorical legs that are strong enough to walk on. Again though, even if it is coming out, I'll give it 50/50 odds (Half that it comes out no later than Q1 2009, and half that it dies) it'll have flaws up the wazzu. It'll probably be more bug riddled than a B.C. forest.
I didnt even bother to read through all the useless hater posts and all their silly excuses, but:
This game will come out by at least Q2-3 of next year, expecting a beta around christmas... So its all good.
lol! Keep dreaming
Yes because having an almost complete game must mean another 2-3 years of development.
And having no evidence of it at all means that it's "almost complete" . He has far more proof of it not coming out, than you do of it coming out.
Besides, if the game doesn't hit beta by around February, the loans will catch up to it and cripple it. Assuming it still has metaphorical legs that are strong enough to walk on. Again though, even if it is coming out, I'll give it 50/50 odds (Half that it comes out no later than Q1 2009, and half that it dies) it'll have flaws up the wazzu. It'll probably be more bug riddled than a B.C. forest.
Elementary my dear Watson.
Read the latest DF warcry.Really what proof has he shown?
From your entire post im assuming you know very little about DF. As aventurine has stated that their prepared even for self-publishing so if those loans get to close and they dont have a suitable publisher than I'm sure they would self-publish.
Tell me what are odds based off? Non-existant evidence.
I didnt even bother to read through all the useless hater posts and all their silly excuses, but:
This game will come out by at least Q2-3 of next year, expecting a beta around christmas... So its all good.
lol! Keep dreaming
Yes because having an almost complete game must mean another 2-3 years of development.
And having no evidence of it at all means that it's "almost complete" . He has far more proof of it not coming out, than you do of it coming out.
Besides, if the game doesn't hit beta by around February, the loans will catch up to it and cripple it. Assuming it still has metaphorical legs that are strong enough to walk on. Again though, even if it is coming out, I'll give it 50/50 odds (Half that it comes out no later than Q1 2009, and half that it dies) it'll have flaws up the wazzu. It'll probably be more bug riddled than a B.C. forest.
Elementary my dear Watson.
Read the latest DF warcry.Really what proof has he shown?
From your entire post im assuming you know very little about DF. As aventurine has stated that their prepared even for self-publishing so if those loans get to close and they dont have a suitable publisher than I'm sure they would self-publish.
Tell me what are odds based off? Non-existant evidence.
Firstly: you're right my odds don't have any actual fact behind them, at least not in any direct way. If they had actual fact behind them it probably wouldn't have been such a clean set.
Secondly: I'm well aware of DF, I've gone through their official website a couple of times, and I have read the latest warcry. I don't trust anything a developer says as far as I can throw it though. Words, can be bent, be made to imply something that isn't going to happen and the like. That's why I don't take anything the WAR or AoC developers say seriously, unless it is clearly stated by a trustworthy source on an official site. I turn off my auto-read between the lines when they start talking. So tell me, I may have forgotten, but did they actually say "Dark Fall should be in beta before Christmas" or "It should be on store shelves by the end of this/next year". Because I can't recall them saying that.
Thirdly: The problem with loans is that you have to pay them back, and usually more than you received. Adventurine can't self publish if they're bankrupt. They can't just call the debt off and say "never mind, we're just gonna publish it ourself", or just pay them back with money that they've spent. That's the non-existent evidence.
So that's all my non existent evidence. Just logically pieced that all together. No detective required. Just like I rather cheesily quoted before "Elementary my dear Watson".
Oh and before I forget, but he has no proof. He just doesn't have common sense dragging his argument down.
Fourthly: Even though you didn't respond to this, when I said it was flawed I meant in the sense that every game is flawed. Every game is going to have stuff that a player will like, and stuff they will hate. Whether it be because the game couldn't handle putting in something better, or because of a design choice. For example, some people aren't going to like the combat system because it has too much running and jumping around. Also some people won't like the PvP because you can get zerged by some guys who are stronger than you (not an original complaint but still). I can pretty much guarente that there will be at least one thing about this game that you don't like about this game as much as you though you would. This whole argument goes out to all those people who think that AoC, DF, WAR, PotBS, or AION are going to be the best game of all time.
The moral of this post is NEVER, and I mean NEVER take something that you've read between the lines, heard as a rumor, or picked up based on something that someone has implied as fact.
Maybe, just maybe. It's not over quite yet but, theres a good chance that it'll be killed soon. or pull a DnL and flop because of unfulfilled promises and become free after making enough money to scrape by on an item shop. But it could still yet come out.
Read the latest DF warcry.Really what proof has he shown?
From your entire post im assuming you know very little about DF. As aventurine has stated that their prepared even for self-publishing so if those loans get to close and they dont have a suitable publisher than I'm sure they would self-publish. Tell me what are odds based off? Non-existant evidence.
Firstly: you're right my odds don't have any actual fact behind them, at least not in any direct way. If they had actual fact behind them it probably wouldn't have been such a clean set.
Secondly: I'm well aware of DF, I've gone through their official website a couple of times, and I have read the latest warcry. I don't trust anything a developer says as far as I can throw it though. Words, can be bent, be made to imply something that isn't going to happen and the like. That's why I don't take anything the WAR or AoC developers say seriously, unless it is clearly stated by a trustworthy source on an official site. I turn off my auto-read between the lines when they start talking. So tell me, I may have forgotten, but did they actually say "Dark Fall should be in beta before Christmas" or "It should be on store shelves by the end of this/next year". Because I can't recall them saying that.
Thirdly: The problem with loans is that you have to pay them back, and usually more than you received. Adventurine can't self publish if they're bankrupt. They can't just call the debt off and say "never mind, we're just gonna publish it ourself", or just pay them back with money that they've spent. That's the non-existent evidence.
So that's all my non existent evidence. Just logically pieced that all together. No detective required. Just like I rather cheesily quoted before "Elementary my dear Watson".
Oh and before I forget, but he has no proof. He just doesn't have common sense dragging his argument down.
Fourthly: Even though you didn't respond to this, when I said it was flawed I meant in the sense that every game is flawed. Every game is going to have stuff that a player will like, and stuff they will hate. Whether it be because the game couldn't handle putting in something better, or because of a design choice. For example, some people aren't going to like the combat system because it has too much running and jumping around. Also some people won't like the PvP because you can get zerged by some guys who are stronger than you (not an original complaint but still). I can pretty much guarente that there will be at least one thing about this game that you don't like about this game as much as you though you would. This whole argument goes out to all those people who think that AoC, DF, WAR, PotBS, or AION are going to be the best game of all time.
The moral of this post is NEVER, and I mean NEVER take something that you've read between the lines, heard as a rumor, or picked up based on something that someone has implied as fact.
Who said the game was going to hit the shelves christmas? I'm merely pointing out that the game is very much completed and is ready for beta but is on hold because of the publisher.
Ok thank you for pointing out that loans= Principal+ interest but im sure thats common knowledge. Since you follow the game I'm sure you know that aventurine gets its money from other contracts so whats to say that they cant pay it off through that way? As im sure you know that you dont have to pay the bill back all at once. It is very possible that they pay it off by doing other contracts until they release or it is also possible they pay it back through solely through their contracts.
Your still back at the point where you have no evidence and have only shown that aventurine just needs to do side work for a while.
There will ALWAYS be something someone doesnt like no matter what. I never said this game was super perfect and it is the best game ever.
I didnt read between the lines i read what was there and i think you should too.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Normally when people aren't trolling they are willing to post reasons for their statements.
The reasons have been stated lots of times in these forums so I dont wanna bring it all up again. Just saw this thread title on the home page and couldn't help but laugh. The OP should find another game to be excited about, one that he may actually play some day. I recommend POTBS.
Normally when people aren't trolling they are willing to post reasons for their statements.
The reasons have been stated lots of times in these forums so I dont wanna bring it all up again. Just saw this thread title on the home page and couldn't help but laugh. The OP should find another game to be excited about, one that he may actually play some day. I recommend POTBS.
LoL PotBS? I would suggest WAR, AoC, TCoS, AION, and Fury all before PotBS.
Read the latest DF warcry.Really what proof has he shown?
From your entire post im assuming you know very little about DF. As aventurine has stated that their prepared even for self-publishing so if those loans get to close and they dont have a suitable publisher than I'm sure they would self-publish. Tell me what are odds based off? Non-existant evidence.
Firstly: you're right my odds don't have any actual fact behind them, at least not in any direct way. If they had actual fact behind them it probably wouldn't have been such a clean set.
Secondly: I'm well aware of DF, I've gone through their official website a couple of times, and I have read the latest warcry. I don't trust anything a developer says as far as I can throw it though. Words, can be bent, be made to imply something that isn't going to happen and the like. That's why I don't take anything the WAR or AoC developers say seriously, unless it is clearly stated by a trustworthy source on an official site. I turn off my auto-read between the lines when they start talking. So tell me, I may have forgotten, but did they actually say "Dark Fall should be in beta before Christmas" or "It should be on store shelves by the end of this/next year". Because I can't recall them saying that.
Thirdly: The problem with loans is that you have to pay them back, and usually more than you received. Adventurine can't self publish if they're bankrupt. They can't just call the debt off and say "never mind, we're just gonna publish it ourself", or just pay them back with money that they've spent. That's the non-existent evidence.
So that's all my non existent evidence. Just logically pieced that all together. No detective required. Just like I rather cheesily quoted before "Elementary my dear Watson".
Oh and before I forget, but he has no proof. He just doesn't have common sense dragging his argument down.
Fourthly: Even though you didn't respond to this, when I said it was flawed I meant in the sense that every game is flawed. Every game is going to have stuff that a player will like, and stuff they will hate. Whether it be because the game couldn't handle putting in something better, or because of a design choice. For example, some people aren't going to like the combat system because it has too much running and jumping around. Also some people won't like the PvP because you can get zerged by some guys who are stronger than you (not an original complaint but still). I can pretty much guarente that there will be at least one thing about this game that you don't like about this game as much as you though you would. This whole argument goes out to all those people who think that AoC, DF, WAR, PotBS, or AION are going to be the best game of all time.
The moral of this post is NEVER, and I mean NEVER take something that you've read between the lines, heard as a rumor, or picked up based on something that someone has implied as fact.
Who said the game was going to hit the shelves christmas? I'm merely pointing out that the game is very much completed and is ready for beta but is on hold because of the publisher.
Ok thank you for pointing out that loans= Principal+ interest but im sure thats common knowledge. Since you follow the game I'm sure you know that aventurine gets its money from other contracts so whats to say that they cant pay it off through that way? As im sure you know that you dont have to pay the bill back all at once. It is very possible that they pay it off by doing other contracts until they release or it is also possible they pay it back through solely through their contracts.
Your still back at the point where you have no evidence and have only shown that aventurine just needs to do side work for a while.
There will ALWAYS be something someone doesnt like no matter what. I never said this game was super perfect and it is the best game ever.
I didnt read between the lines i read what was there and i think you should too.
New list then? Here goes.
First: I said beta, which was a reference to something someone said earlier in this forum. Which is something that a lot of the "fanboys" (I really hate that word because it's so general and inaccurate) seem to be herding towards. Just so you know why I used those times.
Second: I'm well aware that the whole "Loans = Principal + Interest" Shtick it indeed common knowledge. Also that the bill is payed over time. I'm also aware that Adventurine is making money, but they need to have enough money to cover development costs, and pay off the loans with it. Not to mention that they need to have enough money to buy/run servers and make the product before the game actually launches. It's an expensive procedure, but again this is all common knowledge.
That the point though, this is common knowledge. It's all whether they have a positive or negative, them being a relatively unknown and small company in a very expensive business, it's safe to assume that they're losing money. Meaning they're on a bit of a time limit.
I have to admit though, at first I thought you a moron (no offense meant), but after trying to put up my argument, I seem to be seeing your point. Also I'd like to thank you for actually having an argument, instead of the usual "DarkFall iz gonna pwn ur NEWBIE game with its carebear PvP if you cant stand the heat get out of tha kitchen lolz".
Ah, yes and lastly: The last three lines were directed at those "DarkFall iz gonna pwn ur NEWBIE game with its carebear PvP if you cant stand the heat get out of tha kitchen lolz" people I mentioned earlier. Not meant to be directed at you as these posts have, for the most part been a blanket statement.
P.S. That "if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen" thing, I've actually read several times posted by trolls on the AoC and WAR forums. They just show up out of nowhere and flame away.
Logistically you can't proof something is not, only what is. Asking me to do this is well, not logical.
However, ill ask you a question that is proof that DF exists as a game... And you can't ps. However, if you could perhaps a link..
PS Do not knock PotBS it is looking pretty cool , not fast action paced like most mmos , nitch without a doubt, but for people who like that type of game and grew up playing uncharted waters it looks pretty cool. Id rate it 2nd (most looked forward to behind WAR for me , thats not 2nd best, just looking forward to).
This has nothogn to do with trolling , instead its simply about logic, and addressing those who live in fairy worlds and people who are ignorant (people who think DF is not vaporware).
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Logistically you can't proof something is not, only what is. Asking me to do this is well, not logical.
Vaporware is a definitive end state of a software that never were realised. You cannot be vaporware then suddenly turn software again. So you need to qualify your statement to "potential vaporware", crapware etc.. DF logically then cannot be declared vaporware until Aventurine is bankrupt, all devs have gone home and noone wants to buy the rights.
However, ill ask you a question that is proof that DF exists as a game... And you can't ps. However, if you could perhaps a link..
Of course it doesn't exist. It's in DEVELOPMENT. This applies to AoC, PotBS, WAR as well and you are not running around there crying vaporware are you ?
This has nothogn to do with trolling , instead its simply about logic, and addressing those who live in fairy worlds and people who are ignorant (people who think DF is not vaporware).
Calling people ignorant because they don't agree with your OPINION is TROLLING 101. Do some research and we might even take you serious and upgrade your status to darkelf, Black Pudding, Mini-Onion or something.
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
However, ill ask you a question that is proof that DF exists as a game... And you can't ps. However, if you could perhaps a link..
Of course it doesn't exist. It's in DEVELOPMENT. This applies to AoC, PotBS, WAR as well and you are not running around there crying vaporware are you ?
no he is not crying vaporware about AoC, PotBs or WAR because some people had actually the chance to play these games at few conventions, they all have a publisher, they all have started to register people for the beta and we can see many video of these games on the web and all are made by known companies save Potbs by Flying Labs.
Logistically you can't proof something is not, only what is. Asking me to do this is well, not logical. Vaporware is a definitive end state of a software that never were realised. You cannot be vaporware then suddenly turn software again. So you need to qualify your statement to "potential vaporware", crapware etc.. DF logically then cannot be declared vaporware until Aventurine is bankrupt, all devs have gone home and noone wants to buy the rights. Or it never comes out , which it will not. And vaporware impllies more thana failed or dropped game , which your more accurately define. Vaporware is software that doesn't really exist., IE bluff. However, ill ask you a question that is proof that DF exists as a game... And you can't ps. However, if you could perhaps a link.. Of course it doesn't exist. It's in DEVELOPMENT. This applies to AoC, PotBS, WAR as well and you are not running around there crying vaporware are you ? Wrong again my boy, For those listed games i have seen player taken vids , 100% unedited totaly out of crontol from the developers' hands. I have seen proof that the game does indeed exists. DF has no such vids, screenshots, or reviews (first hand accounts). No one has seen this game which has been being developed longer than any of the games you have talked about ... Why has no one seen it? I'll tell you its vaporware. This has nothogn to do with trolling , instead its simply about logic, and addressing those who live in fairy worlds and people who are ignorant (people who think DF is not vaporware). Calling people ignorant because they don't agree with your OPINION is TROLLING 101. Do some research and we might even take you serious and upgrade your status to darkelf, Black Pudding, Mini-Onion or something. Still waiting on UO2 huh? I bet if a person asked when UO2 was going to be released and i said never, it doesn't exist. The Df fanboies would be all like just cuase there no evidence its real, doesn't make it not real. Well that is true, however, if someone tells me there is a giant green giant out side my window , but i can't see it because it is invisiable I'll not believe it.... it could be true but i'll stick with the facts, until the facts say otherwise. Just like there is no invisiable green giant out side my window, there is no game called DF. And i come by this conclusion by the facts which are very solid, reoccuring, etc. Ill share my favorite, E3 what was it 06? Df was signed up to be their and show their game , however they had somehow forgotten to bring their a copy of it. Amazing , oh and they couldn't not have anyone bring it the entire time E3 was going on. That is amazing, infact it is as amazing as the invisiable green giant. _ps if it was not 06 plz do correct me i simply forget , but 06 sounds right. No matter no one has seen a working copy.
all this being said maybe it will release, but i doubt it will be good, any game that take forever just to get a working copy its not going to play well besides that fact.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Lets look at another game that was basically bankrupt upon release with a small group of 20-30 developers and unique ideas. Can anybody say Eve?
And nobody can argue that Eve hasn't become one of the most successful MMO's around within the 4 years time since they released.. Was CCP extremely well known beforehand? No. Did they still manage to innovate and make an extremely great Sci-Fi MMO? Yes.
All in all arguing against unknown developers makes no point whatsoever. Sure theres been a bunch of bad apples in the past that promised great things. But in my opinion the worst thing of all is when something of great success gets streamlined by big companies and pushes innovation out the window (IE. WoW).
Lets look at another game that was basically bankrupt upon release with a small group of 20-30 developers and unique ideas. Can anybody say Eve?
And nobody can argue that Eve hasn't become one of the most successful MMO's around within the 4 years time since they released.. Was CCP extremely well known beforehand? No. Did they still manage to innovate and make an extremely great Sci-Fi MMO? Yes.
All in all arguing against unknown developers makes no point whatsoever. Sure theres been a bunch of bad apples in the past that promised great things. But in my opinion the worst thing of all is when something of great success gets streamlined by big companies and pushes innovation out the window (IE. WoW).
This totaly mis-identifies the reason we have and that have been used to addresses DF being vaporware.
I can do the same thign with a current game, PotBS , super samll dev. team for 90% of its life, however we still saw evidence of its existance , etc.
I can say another 2-3 that used smaller dev. teams and we saw they existed but they were bad, D&L, SB , there are many more.
The fact is its not dev. team size thats at issue, its the fact that they have released no evidence of its existance, and it has been in development forever, and they have canceled betas since 2005. CCp did not do this , i was a beta tester for EVE, and to be honest the game was rather sad at released but they have made it much better, so i guess there is hope for DF. But thats not really what most posters have been talking about.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Logistically you can't proof something is not, only what is. Asking me to do this is well, not logical.
However, ill ask you a question that is proof that DF exists as a game... And you can't ps. However, if you could perhaps a link..
PS Do not knock PotBS it is looking pretty cool , not fast action paced like most mmos , nitch without a doubt, but for people who like that type of game and grew up playing uncharted waters it looks pretty cool. Id rate it 2nd (most looked forward to behind WAR for me , thats not 2nd best, just looking forward to).
This has nothogn to do with trolling , instead its simply about logic, and addressing those who live in fairy worlds and people who are ignorant (people who think DF is not vaporware).
There are many links validating DF's existence and i really dont have the time to go through and get them for you but if you want you can look through them yourself.
Also a video of DF is more proof than any sort of opinion you have because as you said you have nothing to back up your claims.
The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.
Lets look at another game that was basically bankrupt upon release with a small group of 20-30 developers and unique ideas. Can anybody say Eve?
And nobody can argue that Eve hasn't become one of the most successful MMO's around within the 4 years time since they released.. Was CCP extremely well known beforehand? No. Did they still manage to innovate and make an extremely great Sci-Fi MMO? Yes.
All in all arguing against unknown developers makes no point whatsoever. Sure theres been a bunch of bad apples in the past that promised great things. But in my opinion the worst thing of all is when something of great success gets streamlined by big companies and pushes innovation out the window (IE. WoW).
This totaly mis-identifies the reason we have and that have been used to addresses DF being vaporware.
I can do the same thign with a current game, PotBS , super samll dev. team for 90% of its life, however we still saw evidence of its existance , etc.
I can say another 2-3 that used smaller dev. teams and we saw they existed but they were bad, D&L, SB , there are many more.
The fact is its not dev. team size thats at issue, its the fact that they have released no evidence of its existance, and it has been in development forever, and they have canceled betas since 2005. CCp did not do this , i was a beta tester for EVE, and to be honest the game was rather sad at released but they have made it much better, so i guess there is hope for DF. But thats not really what most posters have been talking about.
Most of those game you stated failed because of time restraints and insufficent funding, which aventurine does not have.
Once again one video is more proof than any opinion you can throw.AoC was originally announced to release 2006 and it is now expected to release in 2008. So to say that the delay is a reason why its vaporware is not a valid enough claim. Also there are people beta testing this game such as the forum administrator of DF but is bound by the NDA. Unless I'm mistaken the developers families and friends are also testing this game as well.
So yes there are other people testing DF but their not allowed to say anything about it.
Logistically you can't proof something is not, only what is. Asking me to do this is well, not logical. Vaporware is a definitive end state of a software that never were realised. You cannot be vaporware then suddenly turn software again. So you need to qualify your statement to "potential vaporware", crapware etc.. DF logically then cannot be declared vaporware until Aventurine is bankrupt, all devs have gone home and noone wants to buy the rights. Or it never comes out , which it will not. And vaporware impllies more thana failed or dropped game , which your more accurately define. Vaporware is software that doesn't really exist., IE bluff. Most definitions of vaporware say unrealised software is considered vaporware. So your wrong. However, ill ask you a question that is proof that DF exists as a game... And you can't ps. However, if you could perhaps a link.. Of course it doesn't exist. It's in DEVELOPMENT. This applies to AoC, PotBS, WAR as well and you are not running around there crying vaporware are you ? Wrong again my boy, For those listed games i have seen player taken vids , 100% unedited totaly out of crontol from the developers' hands. I have seen proof that the game does indeed exists. DF has no such vids, screenshots, or reviews (first hand accounts). No one has seen this game which has been being developed longer than any of the games you have talked about ... Why has no one seen it? I'll tell you its vaporware. Unfortunately for you your the wrong one yet again. There is also a leaked DF video and something that you dont know is that the testers of DF are on a strict NDA and not allowed to talk to anyone about it. So yes people have seen it. This has nothogn to do with trolling , instead its simply about logic, and addressing those who live in fairy worlds and people who are ignorant (people who think DF is not vaporware). Calling people ignorant because they don't agree with your OPINION is TROLLING 101. Do some research and we might even take you serious and upgrade your status to darkelf, Black Pudding, Mini-Onion or something. Still waiting on UO2 huh? I bet if a person asked when UO2 was going to be released and i said never, it doesn't exist. The Df fanboies would be all like just cuase there no evidence its real, doesn't make it not real. Well that is true, however, if someone tells me there is a giant green giant out side my window , but i can't see it because it is invisiable I'll not believe it.... it could be true but i'll stick with the facts, until the facts say otherwise. Just like there is no invisiable green giant out side my window, there is no game called DF. And i come by this conclusion by the facts which are very solid, reoccuring, etc. Ill share my favorite, E3 what was it 06? Df was signed up to be their and show their game , however they had somehow forgotten to bring their a copy of it. Amazing , oh and they couldn't not have anyone bring it the entire time E3 was going on. That is amazing, infact it is as amazing as the invisiable green giant. _ps if it was not 06 plz do correct me i simply forget , but 06 sounds right. No matter no one has seen a working copy. So just because you think something it = correct? Being arrogant doesnt make it any more true. Also theres plenty of evidence suggesting DF to be real *cough*Videos,screenshots,naming copyright, ect*cough* so what your saying is completely 100% wrong. Maybe you dont realize this but YOUR the one going against the facts with nothing more than your opinion. You still havent shown any solid proof that the game is vaporware while on the other hand there is more than enough proof showing that DF isnt. While yes they didnt show DF at E3 I dont remember it being about them forgetting it. So i would really like to have a link to such info. Once again wrong. Since January they've had running versions of the game and have showed it to possible investors and/or publishers. Now that AND the fact that other it is known some people outside of aventurine is testing it is more than enough info to say that yes there have been people who've seen a working copy.
all this being said maybe it will release, but i doubt it will be good, any game that take forever just to get a working copy its not going to play well besides that fact.
If people are right now beta testing Darkfall i'm sure we would have heard from them by now NDA or not. And people who are working on the game or their family members is hardly concrete proof.
And I agree AoC does seem to be having some issues the way its being put back but it doesn't compare to DF. AoC has people in beta and there is plenty of information about it, no one is calling vaporware on that. But DF is going the way of duke nukem forever or do you expect to be playing that this christmas aswell?
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Game wise yes. Read the latest warcry. Their just finishing up this and tweaking that. Small details such as those are usually the last thing to be done.
Game wise yes. Read the latest warcry. Their just finishing up this and tweaking that. Small details such as those are usually the last thing to be done.
if this were the case they would have servers by now. But they dont so, there doing something or having a problem with something their not telling us about. No i highly doubt they will have a beta this year
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Game wise yes. Read the latest warcry. Their just finishing up this and tweaking that. Small details such as those are usually the last thing to be done.
if this were the case they would have servers by now. But they dont so, there doing something or having a problem with something their not telling us about. No i highly doubt they will have a beta this year
They do have servers that they use to show potential investors and I'm sure that they have servers to test the game themselves. Now if your talking about servers for beta that is tied into publishing and there was a thread that had that if you feel like reading.
lol! Keep dreamingYes because having an almost complete game must mean another 2-3 years of development.
And having no evidence of it at all means that it's "almost complete"
. He has far more proof of it not coming out, than you do of it coming out.
Besides, if the game doesn't hit beta by around February, the loans will catch up to it and cripple it. Assuming it still has metaphorical legs that are strong enough to walk on. Again though, even if it is coming out, I'll give it 50/50 odds (Half that it comes out no later than Q1 2009, and half that it dies) it'll have flaws up the wazzu. It'll probably be more bug riddled than a B.C. forest.
Elementary my dear Watson.
Yes because having an almost complete game must mean another 2-3 years of development.
And having no evidence of it at all means that it's "almost complete"
. He has far more proof of it not coming out, than you do of it coming out.
Besides, if the game doesn't hit beta by around February, the loans will catch up to it and cripple it. Assuming it still has metaphorical legs that are strong enough to walk on. Again though, even if it is coming out, I'll give it 50/50 odds (Half that it comes out no later than Q1 2009, and half that it dies) it'll have flaws up the wazzu. It'll probably be more bug riddled than a B.C. forest.
Elementary my dear Watson.
Read the latest DF warcry.Really what proof has he shown?
From your entire post im assuming you know very little about DF. As aventurine has stated that their prepared even for self-publishing so if those loans get to close and they dont have a suitable publisher than I'm sure they would self-publish.
Tell me what are odds based off? Non-existant evidence.
lol! Keep dreamingYes because having an almost complete game must mean another 2-3 years of development.
And having no evidence of it at all means that it's "almost complete"
. He has far more proof of it not coming out, than you do of it coming out.
Besides, if the game doesn't hit beta by around February, the loans will catch up to it and cripple it. Assuming it still has metaphorical legs that are strong enough to walk on. Again though, even if it is coming out, I'll give it 50/50 odds (Half that it comes out no later than Q1 2009, and half that it dies) it'll have flaws up the wazzu. It'll probably be more bug riddled than a B.C. forest.
Elementary my dear Watson.
Read the latest DF warcry.Really what proof has he shown?
From your entire post im assuming you know very little about DF. As aventurine has stated that their prepared even for self-publishing so if those loans get to close and they dont have a suitable publisher than I'm sure they would self-publish.
Tell me what are odds based off? Non-existant evidence.
Firstly: you're right my odds don't have any actual fact behind them, at least not in any direct way. If they had actual fact behind them it probably wouldn't have been such a clean set.
Secondly: I'm well aware of DF, I've gone through their official website a couple of times, and I have read the latest warcry. I don't trust anything a developer says as far as I can throw it though. Words, can be bent, be made to imply something that isn't going to happen and the like. That's why I don't take anything the WAR or AoC developers say seriously, unless it is clearly stated by a trustworthy source on an official site. I turn off my auto-read between the lines when they start talking. So tell me, I may have forgotten, but did they actually say "Dark Fall should be in beta before Christmas" or "It should be on store shelves by the end of this/next year". Because I can't recall them saying that.
Thirdly: The problem with loans is that you have to pay them back, and usually more than you received. Adventurine can't self publish if they're bankrupt. They can't just call the debt off and say "never mind, we're just gonna publish it ourself", or just pay them back with money that they've spent. That's the non-existent evidence.
So that's all my non existent evidence. Just logically pieced that all together. No detective required. Just like I rather cheesily quoted before "Elementary my dear Watson".
Oh and before I forget, but he has no proof. He just doesn't have common sense dragging his argument down.
Fourthly: Even though you didn't respond to this, when I said it was flawed I meant in the sense that every game is flawed. Every game is going to have stuff that a player will like, and stuff they will hate. Whether it be because the game couldn't handle putting in something better, or because of a design choice. For example, some people aren't going to like the combat system because it has too much running and jumping around. Also some people won't like the PvP because you can get zerged by some guys who are stronger than you (not an original complaint but still). I can pretty much guarente that there will be at least one thing about this game that you don't like about this game as much as you though you would. This whole argument goes out to all those people who think that AoC, DF, WAR, PotBS, or AION are going to be the best game of all time.
The moral of this post is NEVER, and I mean NEVER take something that you've read between the lines, heard as a rumor, or picked up based on something that someone has implied as fact.
This game is over you people need to move on.
Normally when people aren't trolling they are willing to post reasons for their statements.
Maybe, just maybe. It's not over quite yet but, theres a good chance that it'll be killed soon. or pull a DnL and flop because of unfulfilled promises and become free after making enough money to scrape by on an item shop. But it could still yet come out.
Firstly: you're right my odds don't have any actual fact behind them, at least not in any direct way. If they had actual fact behind them it probably wouldn't have been such a clean set.
Secondly: I'm well aware of DF, I've gone through their official website a couple of times, and I have read the latest warcry. I don't trust anything a developer says as far as I can throw it though. Words, can be bent, be made to imply something that isn't going to happen and the like. That's why I don't take anything the WAR or AoC developers say seriously, unless it is clearly stated by a trustworthy source on an official site. I turn off my auto-read between the lines when they start talking. So tell me, I may have forgotten, but did they actually say "Dark Fall should be in beta before Christmas" or "It should be on store shelves by the end of this/next year". Because I can't recall them saying that.
Thirdly: The problem with loans is that you have to pay them back, and usually more than you received. Adventurine can't self publish if they're bankrupt. They can't just call the debt off and say "never mind, we're just gonna publish it ourself", or just pay them back with money that they've spent. That's the non-existent evidence.
So that's all my non existent evidence. Just logically pieced that all together. No detective required. Just like I rather cheesily quoted before "Elementary my dear Watson".
Oh and before I forget, but he has no proof. He just doesn't have common sense dragging his argument down.
Fourthly: Even though you didn't respond to this, when I said it was flawed I meant in the sense that every game is flawed. Every game is going to have stuff that a player will like, and stuff they will hate. Whether it be because the game couldn't handle putting in something better, or because of a design choice. For example, some people aren't going to like the combat system because it has too much running and jumping around. Also some people won't like the PvP because you can get zerged by some guys who are stronger than you (not an original complaint but still). I can pretty much guarente that there will be at least one thing about this game that you don't like about this game as much as you though you would. This whole argument goes out to all those people who think that AoC, DF, WAR, PotBS, or AION are going to be the best game of all time.
The moral of this post is NEVER, and I mean NEVER take something that you've read between the lines, heard as a rumor, or picked up based on something that someone has implied as fact.
Who said the game was going to hit the shelves christmas? I'm merely pointing out that the game is very much completed and is ready for beta but is on hold because of the publisher.
Ok thank you for pointing out that loans= Principal+ interest but im sure thats common knowledge. Since you follow the game I'm sure you know that aventurine gets its money from other contracts so whats to say that they cant pay it off through that way? As im sure you know that you dont have to pay the bill back all at once. It is very possible that they pay it off by doing other contracts until they release or it is also possible they pay it back through solely through their contracts.
Your still back at the point where you have no evidence and have only shown that aventurine just needs to do side work for a while.
There will ALWAYS be something someone doesnt like no matter what. I never said this game was super perfect and it is the best game ever.
I didnt read between the lines i read what was there and i think you should too.
Never its vaporware
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Care to provide some proof? Perhaps a link?
Normally when people aren't trolling they are willing to post reasons for their statements.
The reasons have been stated lots of times in these forums so I dont wanna bring it all up again. Just saw this thread title on the home page and couldn't help but laugh. The OP should find another game to be excited about, one that he may actually play some day. I recommend POTBS.
Normally when people aren't trolling they are willing to post reasons for their statements.
The reasons have been stated lots of times in these forums so I dont wanna bring it all up again. Just saw this thread title on the home page and couldn't help but laugh. The OP should find another game to be excited about, one that he may actually play some day. I recommend POTBS.
LoL PotBS? I would suggest WAR, AoC, TCoS, AION, and Fury all before PotBS.
Firstly: you're right my odds don't have any actual fact behind them, at least not in any direct way. If they had actual fact behind them it probably wouldn't have been such a clean set.
Secondly: I'm well aware of DF, I've gone through their official website a couple of times, and I have read the latest warcry. I don't trust anything a developer says as far as I can throw it though. Words, can be bent, be made to imply something that isn't going to happen and the like. That's why I don't take anything the WAR or AoC developers say seriously, unless it is clearly stated by a trustworthy source on an official site. I turn off my auto-read between the lines when they start talking. So tell me, I may have forgotten, but did they actually say "Dark Fall should be in beta before Christmas" or "It should be on store shelves by the end of this/next year". Because I can't recall them saying that.
Thirdly: The problem with loans is that you have to pay them back, and usually more than you received. Adventurine can't self publish if they're bankrupt. They can't just call the debt off and say "never mind, we're just gonna publish it ourself", or just pay them back with money that they've spent. That's the non-existent evidence.
So that's all my non existent evidence. Just logically pieced that all together. No detective required. Just like I rather cheesily quoted before "Elementary my dear Watson".
Oh and before I forget, but he has no proof. He just doesn't have common sense dragging his argument down.
Fourthly: Even though you didn't respond to this, when I said it was flawed I meant in the sense that every game is flawed. Every game is going to have stuff that a player will like, and stuff they will hate. Whether it be because the game couldn't handle putting in something better, or because of a design choice. For example, some people aren't going to like the combat system because it has too much running and jumping around. Also some people won't like the PvP because you can get zerged by some guys who are stronger than you (not an original complaint but still). I can pretty much guarente that there will be at least one thing about this game that you don't like about this game as much as you though you would. This whole argument goes out to all those people who think that AoC, DF, WAR, PotBS, or AION are going to be the best game of all time.
The moral of this post is NEVER, and I mean NEVER take something that you've read between the lines, heard as a rumor, or picked up based on something that someone has implied as fact.
Who said the game was going to hit the shelves christmas? I'm merely pointing out that the game is very much completed and is ready for beta but is on hold because of the publisher.
Ok thank you for pointing out that loans= Principal+ interest but im sure thats common knowledge. Since you follow the game I'm sure you know that aventurine gets its money from other contracts so whats to say that they cant pay it off through that way? As im sure you know that you dont have to pay the bill back all at once. It is very possible that they pay it off by doing other contracts until they release or it is also possible they pay it back through solely through their contracts.
Your still back at the point where you have no evidence and have only shown that aventurine just needs to do side work for a while.
There will ALWAYS be something someone doesnt like no matter what. I never said this game was super perfect and it is the best game ever.
I didnt read between the lines i read what was there and i think you should too.
New list then? Here goes.First: I said beta, which was a reference to something someone said earlier in this forum. Which is something that a lot of the "fanboys" (I really hate that word because it's so general and inaccurate) seem to be herding towards. Just so you know why I used those times.
Second: I'm well aware that the whole "Loans = Principal + Interest" Shtick it indeed common knowledge. Also that the bill is payed over time. I'm also aware that Adventurine is making money, but they need to have enough money to cover development costs, and pay off the loans with it. Not to mention that they need to have enough money to buy/run servers and make the product before the game actually launches. It's an expensive procedure, but again this is all common knowledge.
That the point though, this is common knowledge. It's all whether they have a positive or negative, them being a relatively unknown and small company in a very expensive business, it's safe to assume that they're losing money. Meaning they're on a bit of a time limit.
I have to admit though, at first I thought you a moron (no offense meant), but after trying to put up my argument, I seem to be seeing your point. Also I'd like to thank you for actually having an argument, instead of the usual "DarkFall iz gonna pwn ur NEWBIE game with its carebear PvP if you cant stand the heat get out of tha kitchen lolz".
Ah, yes and lastly: The last three lines were directed at those "DarkFall iz gonna pwn ur NEWBIE game with its carebear PvP if you cant stand the heat get out of tha kitchen lolz" people I mentioned earlier. Not meant to be directed at you as these posts have, for the most part been a blanket statement.
P.S. That "if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen" thing, I've actually read several times posted by trolls on the AoC and WAR forums. They just show up out of nowhere and flame away.
Care to provide some proof? Perhaps a link?
Logistically you can't proof something is not, only what is. Asking me to do this is well, not logical.
However, ill ask you a question that is proof that DF exists as a game... And you can't ps. However, if you could perhaps a link..
PS Do not knock PotBS it is looking pretty cool , not fast action paced like most mmos , nitch without a doubt, but for people who like that type of game and grew up playing uncharted waters it looks pretty cool. Id rate it 2nd (most looked forward to behind WAR for me , thats not 2nd best, just looking forward to).
This has nothogn to do with trolling , instead its simply about logic, and addressing those who live in fairy worlds and people who are ignorant (people who think DF is not vaporware).
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Care to provide some proof? Perhaps a link?
Logistically you can't proof something is not, only what is. Asking me to do this is well, not logical.
Vaporware is a definitive end state of a software that never were realised. You cannot be vaporware then suddenly turn software again. So you need to qualify your statement to "potential vaporware", crapware etc.. DF logically then cannot be declared vaporware until Aventurine is bankrupt, all devs have gone home and noone wants to buy the rights.
However, ill ask you a question that is proof that DF exists as a game... And you can't ps. However, if you could perhaps a link..
Of course it doesn't exist. It's in DEVELOPMENT. This applies to AoC, PotBS, WAR as well and you are not running around there crying vaporware are you ?
This has nothogn to do with trolling , instead its simply about logic, and addressing those who live in fairy worlds and people who are ignorant (people who think DF is not vaporware).
Calling people ignorant because they don't agree with your OPINION is TROLLING 101. Do some research and we might even take you serious and upgrade your status to darkelf, Black Pudding, Mini-Onion or something.
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
However, ill ask you a question that is proof that DF exists as a game... And you can't ps. However, if you could perhaps a link..
Of course it doesn't exist. It's in DEVELOPMENT. This applies to AoC, PotBS, WAR as well and you are not running around there crying vaporware are you ?
_________________________________________________________________Hi,
no he is not crying vaporware about AoC, PotBs or WAR because some people had actually the chance to play these games at few conventions, they all have a publisher, they all have started to register people for the beta and we can see many video of these games on the web and all are made by known companies save Potbs by Flying Labs.
all this being said maybe it will release, but i doubt it will be good, any game that take forever just to get a working copy its not going to play well besides that fact.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Lets look at another game that was basically bankrupt upon release with a small group of 20-30 developers and unique ideas. Can anybody say Eve?
And nobody can argue that Eve hasn't become one of the most successful MMO's around within the 4 years time since they released.. Was CCP extremely well known beforehand? No. Did they still manage to innovate and make an extremely great Sci-Fi MMO? Yes.
All in all arguing against unknown developers makes no point whatsoever. Sure theres been a bunch of bad apples in the past that promised great things. But in my opinion the worst thing of all is when something of great success gets streamlined by big companies and pushes innovation out the window (IE. WoW).
I can do the same thign with a current game, PotBS , super samll dev. team for 90% of its life, however we still saw evidence of its existance , etc.
I can say another 2-3 that used smaller dev. teams and we saw they existed but they were bad, D&L, SB , there are many more.
The fact is its not dev. team size thats at issue, its the fact that they have released no evidence of its existance, and it has been in development forever, and they have canceled betas since 2005. CCp did not do this , i was a beta tester for EVE, and to be honest the game was rather sad at released but they have made it much better, so i guess there is hope for DF. But thats not really what most posters have been talking about.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Care to provide some proof? Perhaps a link?
Logistically you can't proof something is not, only what is. Asking me to do this is well, not logical.
However, ill ask you a question that is proof that DF exists as a game... And you can't ps. However, if you could perhaps a link..
PS Do not knock PotBS it is looking pretty cool , not fast action paced like most mmos , nitch without a doubt, but for people who like that type of game and grew up playing uncharted waters it looks pretty cool. Id rate it 2nd (most looked forward to behind WAR for me , thats not 2nd best, just looking forward to).
This has nothogn to do with trolling , instead its simply about logic, and addressing those who live in fairy worlds and people who are ignorant (people who think DF is not vaporware).
There are many links validating DF's existence and i really dont have the time to go through and get them for you but if you want you can look through them yourself.
Also a video of DF is more proof than any sort of opinion you have because as you said you have nothing to back up your claims.
The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.
I can do the same thign with a current game, PotBS , super samll dev. team for 90% of its life, however we still saw evidence of its existance , etc.
I can say another 2-3 that used smaller dev. teams and we saw they existed but they were bad, D&L, SB , there are many more.
The fact is its not dev. team size thats at issue, its the fact that they have released no evidence of its existance, and it has been in development forever, and they have canceled betas since 2005. CCp did not do this , i was a beta tester for EVE, and to be honest the game was rather sad at released but they have made it much better, so i guess there is hope for DF. But thats not really what most posters have been talking about.
Most of those game you stated failed because of time restraints and insufficent funding, which aventurine does not have.
Once again one video is more proof than any opinion you can throw.AoC was originally announced to release 2006 and it is now expected to release in 2008. So to say that the delay is a reason why its vaporware is not a valid enough claim. Also there are people beta testing this game such as the forum administrator of DF but is bound by the NDA. Unless I'm mistaken the developers families and friends are also testing this game as well.
So yes there are other people testing DF but their not allowed to say anything about it.
all this being said maybe it will release, but i doubt it will be good, any game that take forever just to get a working copy its not going to play well besides that fact.
More baseless opinions and incorrect statements?
If people are right now beta testing Darkfall i'm sure we would have heard from them by now NDA or not. And people who are working on the game or their family members is hardly concrete proof.
And I agree AoC does seem to be having some issues the way its being put back but it doesn't compare to DF. AoC has people in beta and there is plenty of information about it, no one is calling vaporware on that. But DF is going the way of duke nukem forever or do you expect to be playing that this christmas aswell?