6 reasons why there will be more Destruction then Order

dominia

I'm reposting this from my Warhammer blog site, theaphelion.wordpress.com, to get everyone's opinion.

..................................................................................................................................

What you say? How can this be? Traditional thoughts warrants the above statement to be completely false but with the release of WAR drawing nearer, one must wonder amidst the media blitz, if Mythic has swung the pendulum too far this time.It is my speculation that on most servers, there will be not just an few more of Destruction players than Order players, but instead a massive deference. How you ask? Well here are my 6 reasons….

• Coolness factor. Plainly in WAR, the Destruction side has visibly more attractive characters to it’s audience who are pvp’ers in general. Chosen, Black Orc, any of the new Dark Elf classes; the provided armor and weapons just look cooler. Whether it be dwarven heads on shoulder pads, or a giant Halbrek (the largest weapon in the game), Destruction win out.

• Many tabletop gamers prefer the quirkiness of the Destruction forces. Many many roleplayers and TT gamers like the humor and lore of Destruction. Bi-sexual-hermaphrodite gods, orc single mindedness, or sinister but sexy Dark Elves make for classic dark humor quests, which many adore.

• Many Believe only 12 year olds play the good side. This is a very common argument as you just have to look to the WoW or EQ2 forums for evidence. The classical thought is younger and immature players want to be pretty instead of an ugly orc, and though some units are “sexy”, their innocence advises against rolling. Now I am not saying more younger / immature players play on the good side, but it is the perception and many “older” players will role Destruction based on that perception alone.

• The “horde” will stay “horde”! Honestly I am an ex-horde player, and even though I did spend time on alliance, my heart still lies with the “underdog” faction of WoW which will subtly persuade me on the character creation screen to automatically look for Orcs, Goblins, and Dark Elves . There are many, many WoW veterans who will at least try out WAR for the pvp, and it is my guess that those who rolled horde will stay horde here and roll Destruction like yours truly.

• Alliance on pvp servers will roll Destruction. If you’ve ever tried to pvp on alliance… don’t. Long queues dominate alliance pvp and force many would be good pvp’ers to just not pvp. Because alliance players will not want to make the same mistake again they’ll force their friends to roll Destruction (”my friends rolled alliance so… so did I” is the #1 reason as to why someone rolled alliance) to avoid long waits for instanced battles.

• There won’t be that many new people. The industry is growing by leaps and bounds but WAR will not generally be a person’s first mmo. People, generally, play the “good” side when they first start off playing an mmo. I think it’s because they’ve been trained at birth to resent evil (from single player games). Others say it’s because evil sides have the reputation of acting evil in pvp, a la ganking / camping. WAR I believe will get a sigma of being too hard core of pvp (much like, but to a lesser extent, Eve Online) for new players which will cause them to shy away from picking it up. With only experienced mmo’ers making toons, there won’t be many lvl 1 Dwarves who ask how to move forward.

Anyway those are my thoughts on the subject. An interesting point to ask though is that many people love playing the underdog, but if the Order did become the underdog — would you switch to Order or stay Destruction?

Me, even if I’m over run with noobs with long queues, I’ll still always be Destruction.

-D^t

ImixZinz

Yea people keep saying this....but come release, everyone is gunna be bitching about the Order zerg.

 

"It was two against a thousand, and we killed em both"

 

 

 

 

Azurus

Very nice post, well thought out and written, and I'd agree on all barring your second point.

Most TT gamers will stick with the race they play already. The two most popular armies (among the general populace, rather than amongst serious/tourney players) are generally accepted to be empire and high elves. So I'd go for a slight leaning in favour of Order amongst tabletop players. Though the serious TT players, much like the serious pvpers, are more likely to choose Destruction (since they already field multiple armies, the reasons you stated would apply more heavily).

I, like you, am expecting more Destruction than Order, though likely not by a huge margin. Won't matter much to me though - I'll be playing an Order server and a Destruction server anyway. In a game where the lore appears to be so well-emphasised, "missing out" on content by playing only one faction seems foolish.

 

BizkitNL

I'lle be playing both Empire and Chaos, simply because those are my main tabletop armies.

puma713

 

Originally posted by dominia


I'm reposting this from my Warhammer blog site, theaphelion.wordpress.com, to get everyone's opinion.
..................................................................................................................................
What you say? How can this be? Traditional thoughts warrants the above statement to be completely false but with the release of WAR drawing nearer, one must wonder amidst the media blitz, if Mythic has swung the pendulum too far this time.It is my speculation that on most servers, there will be not just an few more of Destruction players than Order players, but instead a massive deference. How you ask? Well here are my 6 reasons….


Coolness factor. Plainly in WAR, the Destruction side has visibly more attractive characters to it’s audience who are pvp’ers in general. Chosen, Black Orc, any of the new Dark Elf classes; the provided armor and weapons just look cooler. Whether it be dwarven heads on shoulder pads, or a giant Halbrek (the largest weapon in the game), Destruction win out.


I'll give you this one.


Many tabletop gamers prefer the quirkiness of the Destruction forces. Many many roleplayers and TT gamers like the humor and lore of Destruction. Bi-sexual-hermaphrodite gods, orc single mindedness, or sinister but sexy Dark Elves make for classic dark humor quests, which many adore.


This is a gross overgeneralization.  Reason being - you're speaking for the whole of the Warhammer world, which you can't really do.  Where I live, more people play Empire and Dwarves than Orcs & Goblins, Dark Elves or Chaos.  You'd find an Empire game before you'd find -any- of the "evil" race games. 

Many Believe only 12 year olds play the good side. This is a very common argument as you just have to look to the WoW or EQ2 forums for evidence. The classical thought is younger and immature players want to be pretty instead of an ugly orc, and though some units are “sexy”, their innocence advises against rolling. Now I am not saying more younger / immature players play on the good side, but it is the perception and many “older” players will role Destruction based on that perception alone.

I feel the opposite about this, actually.  I think younger people seem to want to be the character that "looks cool" - at least I did.  They don't really care what they stand for or if they "look pretty" (which none of the good classes actually do, maybe High Elves).  When I was a kid, I'd much rather have been a chaos knight with chains and spiked armor than a lowly dwarf with a handgun.  But, again, like the aforementioned thought, this is just speculation.

The “horde” will stay “horde”! Honestly I am an ex-horde player, and even though I did spend time on alliance, my heart still lies with the “underdog” faction of WoW which will subtly persuade me on the character creation screen to automatically look for Orcs, Goblins, and Dark Elves . There are many, many WoW veterans who will at least try out WAR for the pvp, and it is my guess that those who rolled horde will stay horde here and roll Destruction like yours truly.

This statement sort of cancels out your thought, I think.  To say you want to play as an underdog, then to say that everyone will be playing Destruction, then you're not really playing the underdog.  Everything here is opinion of course, and maybe the reason I feel the way I do about these certain things is that I play the tabletop game and my bearing in one game (WoW) has absolutely nothing to do with the other games I play.  I didn't choose a certain side in EQ2 or Warhammer: Fantasy because I played Alliance on WoW.  You're giving WoW too much credit, methinks.

Alliance on pvp servers will roll Destruction. If you’ve ever tried to pvp on alliance… don’t. Long queues dominate alliance pvp and force many would be good pvp’ers to just not pvp. Because alliance players will not want to make the same mistake again they’ll force their friends to roll Destruction (”my friends rolled alliance so… so did I” is the #1 reason as to why someone rolled alliance) to avoid long waits for instanced battles.

Now you're simply making the mistake of attributing anything that has to do with WoW to WAR.  This simply isn't the case.  This isn't WoW 2, this is WAR.  Another basis of your opinion here is that there are queued, instanced battles.  WAR has open-field battles - it is more like DAoC than WoW.  WoW dumbed down their pvp.  They made it so all you had to do was prance into a little gate, get ready and if you didn't like the odds, just leave.  Real war isn't like that.  Its like what it should be in WAR.  You go out into a field and come across a Chaos Magus, you brawl.  Again, I played Alliance in WoW, and it has no bearing whatsoever on what I'll be playing in WAR. 

There won’t be that many new people. The industry is growing by leaps and bounds but WAR will not generally be a person’s first mmo. People, generally, play the “good” side when they first start off playing an mmo. I think it’s because they’ve been trained at birth to resent evil (from single player games). Others say it’s because evil sides have the reputation of acting evil in pvp, a la ganking / camping. WAR I believe will get a sigma of being too hard core of pvp (much like, but to a lesser extent, Eve Online) for new players which will cause them to shy away from picking it up. With only experienced mmo’ers making toons, there won’t be many lvl 1 Dwarves who ask how to move forward.

Maybe so.  Its a fact that this won't be a new MMO to some, but imagine all the people that don't really play MMO's that are going to pick it up simply because it's Warhammer.  A lot, I'm betting.  I wonder how many people that don't really play MMO's that much, but play the tabletop game signed up for beta.  Half?  More?  Less?  Again, I understand these are opinions, but I think you're attributing your associations with good and evil to the masses.  You say people generally play "good" when first start mmo's, but what idea is that based on?  That people resent evil?  People play the race they want to play, the race they like, not the race that may or may not believe in a certain god or a race that "seems" evil.  I find that its the more experienced players that choose their characters based on such ideas, rather than the other way around.
Anyway those are my thoughts on the subject. An interesting point to ask though is that many people love playing the underdog, but if the Order did become the underdog — would you switch to Order or stay Destruction?
Me, even if I’m over run with noobs with long queues, I’ll still always be Destruction.
-D^t

I realize that this was a lot of negative response, but people are going to have to learn that this game is not WoW.  People have been looking at it and thinking that it is WoW for a long time.  WoW is a watered-down mmo.  It is a color-inside-the-lines, built-for-the-masses mmo.  WAR is not.  WAR is not built for 9 million subscribers.  It is definitely not for everyone and the people that come to WAR thinking that it is going to be WoW 2 are going to be sorely disappointed.  And good riddance to them.  If you want to find a "new" mmo, something alive, something fresh - stop looking for your old mmo in it.  You might get that old feeling back of, "Wow, this is really cool."

Noan

Originally posted by ImixZinz


Yea people keep saying this....but come release, everyone is gunna be bitching about the Order zerg.
 
"It was two against a thousand, and we killed em both"
 
 
 
 

Very Hard to believe. Feels like everyone will be playing Destruction side.

1st: almost every kid likes Dark Elves, feels like it will be 40% of elves, 40% of Chaos and other Greenskins on one side.

2nd: try searching on web, almost on every site you can find polls and in those polls 1st place is Chaos or DE, last ones are Empire, Dwarfs and HE.

3rd:  in Warhammer Tabletop ver. very popular armies are Beasts of Chaos, DE or Hordes of Chaos (not talking about Vampire Counts). Skaven popular too btw.

I know a few kids that play WoW. Guess what race they play? This is obvious.

kraiden

this is not wow.

 

ImixZinz

Originally posted by Noan


 
Originally posted by ImixZinz


Yea people keep saying this....but come release, everyone is gunna be bitching about the Order zerg.
 
"It was two against a thousand, and we killed em both"
 
 
 
 

 

Very Hard to believe. Feels like everyone will be playing Destruction side.

1st: almost every kid likes Dark Elves, feels like it will be 40% of elves, 40% of Chaos and other Greenskins on one side.

2nd: try searching on web, almost on every site you can find polls and in those polls 1st place is Chaos or DE, last ones are Empire, Dwarfs and HE.

3rd:  in Warhammer Tabletop ver. very popular armies are Beasts of Chaos, DE or Hordes of Chaos (not talking about Vampire Counts). Skaven popular too btw.

I know a few kids that play WoW. Guess what race they play? This is obvious.

Oh my! you're right, these polls with 200 people voting obviously show the majority of the MILLIONS that will be playing WAR....

dominia

 

Originally posted by puma713


 
Originally posted by dominia

I realize that this was a lot of negative response, but people are going to have to learn that this game is not WoW.  People have been looking at it and thinking that it is WoW for a long time.  WoW is a watered-down mmo.  It is a color-inside-the-lines, built-for-the-masses mmo.  WAR is not.  WAR is not built for 9 million subscribers.  It is definitely not for everyone and the people that come to WAR thinking that it is going to be WoW 2 are going to be sorely disappointed.  And good riddance to them.  If you want to find a "new" mmo, something alive, something fresh - stop looking for your old mmo in it.  You might get that old feeling back of, "Wow, this is really cool."

 

I think it was my fault in the post for not making myself clear enough. I didn't use WoW specifically just because I thoguht "well you know, there both mmo's, fantasy theme and cartoony styles" (though i'd hardly consider WAR cartoony but that's another discusion).

I chose to bring up WoW as oppose to EQ2, DoAC or any other MMO simple for the fact that in WoW, WAR will find a dense population of it's player base. On sheer numbers, with out any other factors, there will be more people coming to WAR from WoW then anyother game.

My guess would be nearly 2/3 of all WAR gamers will at some point of played WoW -- which after you take that into context with my original post, becomes apparent as to why I speak of "horde" instead of Qeynos, or why only one bullet is spent on TT'ers and 2 are on Blizzards juggernaut. That is just how numbers work.

On your point with alliance, yes there will be open pvp, but at the games release there will also be 30 instanced battle grounds. Now whether Mythics decides to implement cross server or dogs of war has yet to be determined and will have a substantial effect on playstyle and wait timers -- but going back to my previous 2 paragraphs -- the vast majority of WAR gamers will come from ex-WoW gamers (like it or not =.=) and many when hear "instanced pvp battles" will automatically think of BG's and plan accordingly.

Please don't misunderstand me on these points. Yes, I played WoW for 2 years but I originally played DoAC and Shadowbane (until ToA came out and SB tanked >.>). I've also spent a lot of time in Eve and even GW expanding my understanding of pvp and game dynamics. If I came across as trying to relate WAR pvp and WoW together, I'm very sorry, but know I had my a method to the madness.

 

Edit: I did base that fact that poeple generally play god aligned characters when first starting out mainly because of the in herent reaction to through years of playing the hero in single player games. just wanted to make sure that was clear as well.

Noan

Originally posted by kraiden


this is not wow.
 

It doesn't really matter since kids are the same and they love playing elves.

Noan

 

Originally posted by ImixZinz


 
Originally posted by Noan


 
Originally posted by ImixZinz


Yea people keep saying this....but come release, everyone is gunna be bitching about the Order zerg.
 
"It was two against a thousand, and we killed em both"
 
 
 
 

 

Very Hard to believe. Feels like everyone will be playing Destruction side.

1st: almost every kid likes Dark Elves, feels like it will be 40% of elves, 40% of Chaos and other Greenskins on one side.

2nd: try searching on web, almost on every site you can find polls and in those polls 1st place is Chaos or DE, last ones are Empire, Dwarfs and HE.

3rd:  in Warhammer Tabletop ver. very popular armies are Beasts of Chaos, DE or Hordes of Chaos (not talking about Vampire Counts). Skaven popular too btw.

I know a few kids that play WoW. Guess what race they play? This is obvious.

 

Oh my! you're right, these polls with 200 people voting obviously show the majority of the MILLIONS that will be playing WAR....

 

I feel sorry for you since you visited some kind of poor sites. I saw polls with 1000+ people.

MILLIONS? Omg, MILLIONS I saw only in WoW. This game didn't have any release yet and you are saying MILLIONS.

TheFonzV2.0

Originally posted by Noan


 
Originally posted by kraiden


this is not wow.
 

 

It doesn't really matter since kids are the same and they love playing elves.

Unless you have some study done it's just an opinion. Take WoW for example, I've seen kids on both sides on all the races it's not just elves :P.

Noan

Originally posted by TheFonzV2.0

Originally posted by Noan


 
Originally posted by kraiden


this is not wow.
 

 

It doesn't really matter since kids are the same and they love playing elves.

Unless you have some study done it's just an opinion. Take WoW for example, I've seen kids on both sides on all the races it's not just elves :P.

Sure thing. I've seen kids on both too. Was talking about alliance kids.

patrikd23

There are just as many Evil persons as Good Persons in this world, the ones

you need to worry about are the the ones that dont know or doubt what they are.

lekiz

Um, I usually play the Evil side in MMOs whenever possible. In WAR, I'm going Order. Sorry, I won't be going Destruction for a long time.

spikeynorman

Well I think that the kids for destruction (or maybe WAR in general) will find it to hard and leave since they are used to WoW and WoW is an mmo on easy mode.

Noan

Originally posted by spikeynorman


Well I think that the kids for destruction (or maybe WAR in general) will find it to hard and leave since they are used to WoW and WoW is an mmo on easy mode.

So WAR harder then WoW? You palyed on beta?

spikeynorman

no i havn't played beta

but the thing is im assuming it will be harder. It might (sadly) be easyer but its not our choice is it? I just hope this game is really good and has enough order to kill 

Kyleran

Forgive the ignorance of this question, but aren't the classes in WAR quite a bit different on each side of the conflict? In other words, only the side of Order has Bright Wizards?  If that's the case, people may be more drawn to the class they want to play, and not the realm. (I know thats how I'm likely to chose which side to play, my son wants to be a BW)

WOW had the same classes on both sides of the fight except for Pallys and Shamans when it first started, and I know many people chose alliance or horde just on that basis.  My entire guild went Alliance because our GM wanted to be a Pally, when many of us wanted to play on the Horde side.

 

cveselis

Originally posted by dominia






Many Believe only 12 year olds play the good side. This is a very common argument as you just have to look to the WoW or EQ2 forums for evidence. The classical thought is younger and immature players want to be pretty instead of an ugly orc, and though some units are “sexy”, their innocence advises against rolling. Now I am not saying more younger / immature players play on the good side, but it is the perception and many “older” players will role Destruction based on that perception alone.


The “horde” will stay “horde”! Honestly I am an ex-horde player, and even though I did spend time on alliance, my heart still lies with the “underdog” faction of WoW which will subtly persuade me on the character creation screen to automatically look for Orcs, Goblins, and Dark Elves . There are many, many WoW veterans who will at least try out WAR for the pvp, and it is my guess that those who rolled horde will stay horde here and roll Destruction like yours truly.



— would you switch to Order or stay Destruction?
Me, even if I’m over run with noobs with long queues, I’ll still always be Destruction.
-D^t

 

You think that with Dark Elves being in the game at launch that younger gamers will not be drawn to them?  Also, as an "older" gamer (23), and someone who's followed this game for a while, if anything, I'll be rolling a dwarf  (instead of Chaos first) to avoid the younger/immature crowd. 

As far as the TT gamers go I am pretty sure you'll find a large majority of them going either Greenskin or Dwarf...Just head over to warhammeralliance and see how many of them play order races. Though the TT-gamers will by far and away be the smallest population of gamers in this game.

Also as a long time Horde-player (since launch basically), and someone who is dying to play a Dwarf or KoTBS, I don't see how you can just make a broadstrokes statement like that. Sure I liked horde, but I am ready for something different.

One of the best things about the WAR-universe is that there isn't a good/bad side. They are both equally gruesome.  Just read the names (Order/Destruction) and you can see which each is fighting for, but to say that fanatical WitchHunter is any less evil than someone from the destruction side is just an incorrect statement.  Both sides in this game are suppose to be at WAR, and to say that fanatic fighting for their religion (Empire or Chaos, just for example) is just in their fight, and the fanatic their fighting against is evil is...well you can see where this is going hopefully.

Anyway, thanks for the post that has absolutely nothing to back it up other than an opinion. Good Post

As for the question, I would definitely play order till destruction pop evened out. I am planning on playing every race anyway(cause each of their 1-40 zones are different), and I personally think that the Dwarf Community is shaping up to be the best hands down.

 

 

cveselis

Originally posted by Kyleran


Forgive the ignorance of this question, but aren't the classes in WAR quite a bit different on each side of the conflict? In other words, only the side of Order has Bright Wizards?  If that's the case, people may be more drawn to the class they want to play, and not the realm. (I know thats how I'm likely to chose which side to play, my son wants to be a BW)
WOW had the same classes on both sides of the fight except for Pallys and Shamans when it first started, and I know many people chose alliance or horde just on that basis.  My entire guild went Alliance because our GM wanted to be a Pally, when many of us wanted to play on the Horde side.
 

 

Yes, they are technically different classes, but the same architypes. Also, something that seems to be popping up is that, lets take for instance tanks, is that across racial pairings (Greenskin/Highelf) classes seem to start having some similarities. The Black Orc seems to be like a pretty "offensive tank" and so does the Swordmaster (This is from gamesday information about the blackorc, and things paul/jeff said about the swordmaster). 

SO, while they are different classes they have similarities, eg offensive tank. The Ironbreaker/Chosen are shaping up to be the most defensive tanks, but no one really knows yet about Chosen-Mechanics. 

For your example, yes empire has bright wizards, but chaos have magus (DD magic dealer). 

spikeynorman

Originally posted by Kyleran


Forgive the ignorance of this question, but aren't the classes in WAR quite a bit different on each side of the conflict? In other words, only the side of Order has Bright Wizards?  If that's the case, people may be more drawn to the class they want to play, and not the realm. (I know thats how I'm likely to chose which side to play, my son wants to be a BW)
WOW had the same classes on both sides of the fight except for Pallys and Shamans when it first started, and I know many people chose alliance or horde just on that basis.  My entire guild went Alliance because our GM wanted to be a Pally, when many of us wanted to play on the Horde side.
 

yes all the classes are slightly different. Like engineer and magus...one uses magic and the other bullets. witch hunter and marauder

marauder = mutan freak guy who is gonna kill you very fast witch hunter = runs up behind you and shoots you pointblank range with his pistol and hits you with rapier and runs...to strike again

cveselis

Originally posted by Noan 


 
Very Hard to believe. Feels like everyone will be playing Destruction side.
1st: almost every kid likes Dark Elves, feels like it will be 40% of elves, 40% of Chaos and other Greenskins on one side.
2nd: try searching on web, almost on every site you can find polls and in those polls 1st place is Chaos or DE, last ones are Empire, Dwarfs and HE.
3rd:  in Warhammer Tabletop ver. very popular armies are Beasts of Chaos, DE or Hordes of Chaos (not talking about Vampire Counts). Skaven popular too btw.
I know a few kids that play WoW. Guess what race they play? This is obvious.

Don't you remember these forums when WoW was about to come out? It was the same deal saying horde was going to be over populated.

Those polls mean pretty much nothing, because there is only a minority of the potential gaming population following WAR on forums right now. Now, maybe if you polled every single beta applicant, and collected that data somewhere, then you could tote that around saying, "see, look here". But, to say that those polls(which the same people could be the population being polled on every site) are accurate is very incorrect.

TT-Didn't you read the post above you with all the green? Probably should check that out and see that dwarf/empire are very very popular armies too

 

Stellos

I think the OP has some really good points and a good arguable topic here.  I agree with most points, however, I do not feel the the Destruction has better looking characters.  I think the Order looks better overall.  That feeds into your point of kids wanting to be Order and not Destruction.  I was alliance in WoW but always wished I woulda went with Horde, so this is my chance to jump ship and I probably will as more information comes out.

Proserpine

Originally posted by Noan


 
 
Very Hard to believe. Feels like everyone will be playing Destruction side.

I think this says it all.  If you just read the different blogs, posts and preview articles and watch the dev podcasts you just get a feeling that destruction is going to massively outnumber order.

I made a post about this unbalance the other day and I mentioned that even in the dev's podcasts (specificly the brittish guy with sunglasses) you see them kind-of sit back and roll their eyes when describing Order classes and jump up and yell when describing Destruction.  Thats an exageration, but there is a noticable difference.

I read a review article from a guy who got to play some of the classes and out of his top 4:  3 were destruction.

Midaveg

I love being green so i choose destruction instead of following the crowd