Sony is already a dead company walking. The PS/3 is a distant third in console sales, and they bet their whole company on it. The only thing floating Sony right now is their movie division. How much more mileage will they be able to get out of Spiderman sequels anyway?
All it will take is a season of box office bombs for Sony to call in the receivers.
BTW, one bad season by Sony pictures may get SOE in trouble as well, it's a division of Sony Pictures.
I'd say that it's inevitable that Sony will be dismembered as a company, with the profitable movie/media company seperated from the failing consumer electronics company. SOE may meet it's demise if their 2008 slate of new MMOs fail to achieve any sort of market success, which I fully expect.
Any money that SOE, or for that matter Blizzard, or Funcom, or any other MMO publisher gives to MMORPG.COM is not a donation, or charity. It's to put their products on the site to get noticed.
One of the inherent problems of the gaming press, both dead tree and online, is that in order to keep going, they need to accept advertising from those trying to get their products in front of an audience that is predisposed to buy it. Advertising pays for this site...its graphics, its administration, sending reporters to Leipzig and Austin. Thus the advertisers can and do have an impact on the editorial positions of a web site or any gaming magazine. To keep running, they need advertisers, they can't be too crtiical of the games published by those advertisers, or the advertisers might go away. Advertiser pressure is what got Don Imus fired. It works the same way in all media that depends on advertising for their financial well-being.
So they have to walk a fine line to attract gamers to their site with interesting and engaging content, and that content not offending their advertisers too much.
Just about all commerical media operates under this constraint to one extent or another. The pressure is sometimes subtle, sometimes not. For example, a local paper running investigative stories on shady practices by local car dealerships might find all of the dealerships no longer advertising with them. It's the way the game is played.
Another way to pressre the press is to deny access. This is used extensively in Washington, for example. Reporters who do not play ball with politicians, or are critical, find themselves denied access to the politicans, and without that they don't have a story...or at least not one they can easily slap together. Not allowing your developers to be interviewd by Computer Gaming World or MMORPG.COM if those media are too critical is a way of sending a message to the magazine or web site that they should tone down perceived criticism of the publisher's products.
It's not unheard of for a site to lavish praise on one product, but be less than enthusiastic about another product, and still get pressured on the latter.
The gaming media exists to help put games into the market. How many times have you read an article about some soon to be released game that touts all its amazing features, then you buy the game and discover that it's pretty much unplayable? Hence concern about hype, and how the gaming media walk yet another fine line.
So it's hardly chairty that motivates Vivendi, or Funcom to support MMORPG.COM. They need to get their product before the public, and MMORPG.COM is a great way to do it...even if MMORPG.COM isn't fully complimentary. This is, after all, business.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Siobabble heres the difference between Blizzard funcom and SOE. I dont see Blizzard or funcom paying mmorpg.com to manipulate forums and to moderate them how they see fit and to censor what they think should be and shouldnt be posted.Theres the difference. I dont see blizzard or funcom doing that or trying use charity donations to offset bad publicity in general.As for donations there getting them and so far mmorpg.com has more then bent over thrown there pants and underwear to the wind lol. To also point out Funcom and Blizzard make working decent games and dont delete character proffesions and make 22 plus different versions of a game and try to copy one anothers engine Like SOE has been trying and is still trying to do.
*Games on our site will be treated just as we treat people. Unsubstantiated comments about specific or general games will be penalized in nearly the same way attacks against people will. The exception is that you can say mean things about games provided you back it up with reasons. Example: "Game X sucks." is not a legitimate comment. "Game X sucks, because..." is acceptable.
The real fault is the weakness of todays press where the "news" industry has been turned from a public service required by the government for the rights for free broadcasting (paid for by our tax dollars) to a for profit business as part of a mega conglomarate of media where 5 companies try and keep there oliagarchy and there is no government or large independant media outlet opposition it leads to a weak press core. This has a more drastic impact on smaller vulnerable publications subject to the monopolostic practices which act in direct constrast the foundation and principles of our government framework relating to supression of free speech and free press by the governments own negligence of its public license to the media outlets. There is a strong case to be made that the government is turning a blind eye thus making them defacto partners in the censorship and in essense in agreement with the supression of free speech and press.
There is a compelling case to be made to have the government require 100% seperation of the news divisions of NBC, CBS and ABC from any sort of corporate governence and to highly scrutinize news division heads hirings and firings and putting a wall between those news organizations and marketing that wouldn't permit marketing to entire into news broadcasting as previously mentioned because that is paid for by us tax payers already and we deserve a broadcast of news we paid for not one slanted by ad dollars.
While I say this I realize some will misinterrupt this to mean more then it is. I am not stating that its extremely bad right now and blatant and nothing gets reported if its bad for the ad business. There are many hard editorials and comments from news organizations that weren't swayed by some trite marketing concern. I am just pointing out why the press is weak today verse in the past. Its not a coordinated effort by any political leadership or secret democrat or republican elite group. I just think it happened with the changes to media over the years and the government has fallen behind the curve on helping to protect free press and free speech.
The government is making some serious headway in that regard when it comes media delivered through mobile networks and some corporations like Google are very much into understanding open media and its positive affects while greatly profiting from it. Just the fact that the next generation mobile network is going to be required to be "Open" with phones and media is a real positive step.
I know this got totally off topic but I think Sio and I are relavant somehow to this topic as a whole on publicity, open media, open discussions and the entire fabric of corporate media interaction with the public.
Oh and there is nothing wrong with entertainment news Fox, MSNBC, CNN and so on. They can do what they want. However, I'd think they'd have to fall into line with the larger companies to remain competative. I think it would strengthen the press to better serve its roll to the public and I think you'd see a tanigable difference in News Broadcasts with truly independent news outlets.
So Enron donated to charity? And now we have to lub em for their contribution to the poor? aaaaaaaw, thats sooooo nice of Enron, they are a top notch company no matter what the haters say! They donated to charity!!
Excellent point!
And Enron is a very good analogue of SOE. The problem is that law hasn't yet caught up to the MMO industry in terms of making illegal the unethical (massive secret gameplay changes) and borderline fradulent (expansions released incomplete, expansions sold advertising features for professions that they knew would be taken out within weeks) practices.
Fact of the matter is, if the law protected consumers of MMOs the way they do consumers of energy (Enron), Smed and others would have done a perp walk over the NGE.
BTW, it's pretty much a given that there is going to be a massive strike in Hollywood in a few months, of the actors, writers, and workers unions at the same time. This will starve Sony Pictures of revenue. Sony Pictures is the part of Sony that is propping up the rest of the rotten corpse...
Excellent point! And Enron is a very good analogue of SOE. The problem is that law hasn't yet caught up to the MMO industry in terms of making illegal the unethical (massive secret gameplay changes) and borderline fradulent (expansions released incomplete, expansions sold advertising features for professions that they knew would be taken out within weeks) practices. Fact of the matter is, if the law protected consumers of MMOs the way they do consumers of energy (Enron), Smed and others would have done a perp walk over the NGE. BTW, it's pretty much a given that there is going to be a massive strike in Hollywood in a few months, of the actors, writers, and workers unions at the same time. This will starve Sony Pictures of revenue. Sony Pictures is the part of Sony that is propping up the rest of the rotten corpse...
You make an excellent point, cabalist, if overstated. SOE does not equate to Enron as SOE did not (lacking evidence to the contrary) set out with malice to defraud anyone. They did, however, seriously misread the market's consumer base, something of which the rest of the industry was guilty, as well.
It is not that the law does not protect game consumers the same as everyone else. It does. It is the fact that the game industry is relatively young, giving at least the perception that gamers are "kids," unaware of their rights under law. This is a perception that began to change after the NGE. There were organized protests, efforts to bring legal action - some ill-advised and misdirected - and a clear indication that it wasn't just "junior" who lost his favorite toy. Observers inside and outside the game industry saw this reaction - even the incoherent screaming - as indication that the market had matured - "grown up," - as any market does. Once a consumer base matures, it defines certain expectations of value and quality. The MMO market matured more than SOE or anyone realized, which is why they got spanked so hard over the NGE.
The game market as we know it has been growing steadily over the last 20+ years. Kids have grown up with Atari, Nintendo, PS, XBox and PC games. Those "kids" are now 20, 30, even 40+ years old. How long did the industry think they could continue business as usual, releasing buggy, incomplete product, and treating customers only as a credit card number? The game industry is larger than the movie industry in terms of money generated. With that much money comes notice. Gamers are now becoming voting citizens in massive numbers and will start demanding quality from games the same as any other consumer product. If consumers can't convince the industry to go along, they will bring government assets to bare.
This is why it is unlikely you will see anything like the NGE happen again, even from SOE. The consumer base has moved out of Mom's house, so to speak. The industry has noticed, news and press outlets have noticed and legal and government wags have noticed.
Excellent point! And Enron is a very good analogue of SOE. The problem is that law hasn't yet caught up to the MMO industry in terms of making illegal the unethical (massive secret gameplay changes) and borderline fradulent (expansions released incomplete, expansions sold advertising features for professions that they knew would be taken out within weeks) practices. Fact of the matter is, if the law protected consumers of MMOs the way they do consumers of energy (Enron), Smed and others would have done a perp walk over the NGE. BTW, it's pretty much a given that there is going to be a massive strike in Hollywood in a few months, of the actors, writers, and workers unions at the same time. This will starve Sony Pictures of revenue. Sony Pictures is the part of Sony that is propping up the rest of the rotten corpse...
You make an excellent point, cabalist, if overstated. SOE does not equate to Enron as SOE did not (lacking evidence to the contrary) set out with malice to defraud anyone. They did, however, seriously misread the market's consumer base, something of which the rest of the industry was guilty, as well.
It is not that the law does not protect game consumers the same as everyone else. It does. It is the fact that the game industry is relatively young, giving at least the perception that gamers are "kids," unaware of their rights under law. This is a perception that began to change after the NGE. There were organized protests, efforts to bring legal action - some ill-advised and misdirected - and a clear indication that it wasn't just "junior" who lost his favorite toy. Observers inside and outside the game industry saw this reaction - even the incoherent screaming - as indication that the market had matured - "grown up," - as any market does. Once a consumer base matures, it defines certain expectations of value and quality. The MMO market matured more than SOE or anyone realized, which is why they got spanked so hard over the NGE.
The game market as we know it has been growing steadily over the last 20+ years. Kids have grown up with Atari, Nintendo, PS, XBox and PC games. Those "kids" are now 20, 30, even 40+ years old. How long did the industry think they could continue business as usual, releasing buggy, incomplete product, and treating customers only as a credit card number? The game industry is larger than the movie industry in terms of money generated. With that much money comes notice. Gamers are now becoming voting citizens in massive numbers and will start demanding quality from games the same as any other consumer product. If consumers can't convince the industry to go along, they will bring government assets to bare.
This is why it is unlikely you will see anything like the NGE happen again, even from SOE. The consumer base has moved out of Mom's house, so to speak. The industry has noticed, news and press outlets have noticed and legal and government wags have noticed.
This should come as a huge relief to all those who are veterans of SWG. Personally, I've noticed a certain trend in the right direction coming from SOE, quite prevalent in the direction they have taken with EQ2. They seem to be taking their customers far more seriously these days, and who knows, maybe one day they'll decide to do SWG2, and will have learned a bit about how to proceed.
Regardless, SOE is a very much disliked MMO publisher that has done everything to earn and deserve the reputation and vitriol that they get. Making charitable donations is nice, but it does nothing to resolve the many injustices the company and current management have commited in the industry. Why do you always come to SOE's defense? I am curious.
I'm not really coming to anyone's defense with that post.
I acknowledge that people have legit gripes with SOE. Personally, I have no real feelings toward the company as a whole one way or the other.
My only point was that charitable donations should always be encouraged. It's a good thing.
And yes, I do see the irony of giving such a donation for a demo project...
I'd be a little less visible defending them if I were you. It's not as if there is anything for your site to gain anyway, as SOE isn't even really a legit contender in the MMO marketplace anymore. Are they even top 5 in subs anymore if you combine all their games? SOE is at best a 2nd tier publisher at this point, and they are rapidly falling into the third tier.
SOE has long been eclipsed by Blizzard, NCSoft, and yes, even Turbine, which has 4 mil subs for LOTRO...
SWG isn't even the #1 sci-fi MMO anymore... EVE has long surpassed it in subs. It's a great game, it's Pre-CU in space. Whenever you mention the NGE to any CCP people they thank SOE for it... Oh, and Eve is getting a ground game...
excuse me, but it's 4 million CHARACTERS.... Every compagny twists their numbers. Turbine does, SOE, Blizzard, NCSoft and yes, you favorite one too...
You make an excellent point, cabalist, if overstated. SOE does not equate to Enron as SOE did not (lacking evidence to the contrary) set out with malice to defraud anyone. They did, however, seriously misread the market's consumer base, something of which the rest of the industry was guilty, as well. It is not that the law does not protect game consumers the same as everyone else. It does. It is the fact that the game industry is relatively young, giving at least the perception that gamers are "kids," unaware of their rights under law. This is a perception that began to change after the NGE. There were organized protests, efforts to bring legal action - some ill-advised and misdirected - and a clear indication that it wasn't just "junior" who lost his favorite toy. Observers inside and outside the game industry saw this reaction - even the incoherent screaming - as indication that the market had matured - "grown up," - as any market does. Once a consumer base matures, it defines certain expectations of value and quality. The MMO market matured more than SOE or anyone realized, which is why they got spanked so hard over the NGE. The game market as we know it has been growing steadily over the last 20+ years. Kids have grown up with Atari, Nintendo, PS, XBox and PC games. Those "kids" are now 20, 30, even 40+ years old. How long did the industry think they could continue business as usual, releasing buggy, incomplete product, and treating customers only as a credit card number? The game industry is larger than the movie industry in terms of money generated. With that much money comes notice. Gamers are now becoming voting citizens in massive numbers and will start demanding quality from games the same as any other consumer product. If consumers can't convince the industry to go along, they will bring government assets to bare. This is why it is unlikely you will see anything like the NGE happen again, even from SOE. The consumer base has moved out of Mom's house, so to speak. The industry has noticed, news and press outlets have noticed and legal and government wags have noticed.
Problem is, that the industry KNOWS that the gamers are not "kids".
Their own research says the average gamer is 33, and has been playing games for 12 years.
Their own research shows that the average game buyer is 38 years, where 92% of PC games bouthg and 80% of Console games bought are by people above the age of 18.
Their own research says 36% of parents play videogames.
Heck, their own research says 38% of gamers are women! Of the game population. 31% are women over 18, while "kids" 17 and under only hold 20% of the market!
This from their own industry (Entertainment Software Association, look it up, they have the numbers, they have the research)
SOE are run by a senile Smedley and his bunch of moneylovin nongamer people, who just don't understand WHAT market they are in, and goes by their own belief that gamers are lil kiddies with parents creditcards, instead of listening to what their own industry has to say.
You guys are something.... I bet that if SOE would release Pre-CU server, support them and give you a lifetime subscription for free you would still whine.
Don't gimme that EMU crap... everyone knows emu shards sucks.
Hey matrague what u leave out of your whining post there is that Blizzard funcom and other mmo companies dont donate to charity to offset there horrible reputation and go out of there way to publicize it like SOE does. Sure they may fudge the numbers buts that nothing compared to what SOE has done. Blizzard doesnt change wow 22 times over they dont delete whole proffessions and bring out a expansion pull a bait and switch on customers they dont disable weapons in game and then re enable them and claim them as new content i could go on here making my point.As for if SOE made a pre-cu server and it was free wed still complain first off I will never give money to SOE or waste my time on any sony product everything they make is total junk and just worthless. No matter what version of SWG there is its tied in with sony so if theyre ever is a version of SWG that is out of beta into live which 4 years and going there hasnt been yet <-- I wouldnt waste my time because it will always be musical versions.Im wanting SWG to die personally its a huge stain on the Star wars name its embarrasment i dont honestly know how lucas lets its exist its just a disgrace and flat out POS. So i hope you put that in your mmorpg blog there along with SOE'S huge donation to offset there turd stuck in the toilet that wont go away.So as long as SWG is in existence i will complain and do what i can to take it down SOE is doing that for me %98 they have a whole staff and intern dev team that is helping me so were all on a roll
*Games on our site will be treated just as we treat people. Unsubstantiated comments about specific or general games will be penalized in nearly the same way attacks against people will. The exception is that you can say mean things about games provided you back it up with reasons. Example: "Game X sucks." is not a legitimate comment. "Game X sucks, because..." is acceptable.
You guys are something.... I bet that if SOE would release Pre-CU server, support them and give you a lifetime subscription for free you would still whine. Don't gimme that EMU crap... everyone knows emu shards sucks.
Let them offer us this, then see if we do whine before trolling with this flame of yours.
We WANT OUR GAME BACK... That is what we are for.
Give us our game back. See what happens.. Why, SWG might actually gain PAYING subs instead of a bubble from a free trial gimmick.
You guys are something.... I bet that if SOE would release Pre-CU server, support them and give you a lifetime subscription for free you would still whine. Don't gimme that EMU crap... everyone knows emu shards sucks.
Let them offer us this, then see if we do whine before trolling with this flame of yours.
We WANT OUR GAME BACK... That is what we are for.
Give us our game back. See what happens.. Why, SWG might actually gain PAYING subs instead of a bubble from a free trial gimmick.
"Nothing in what I was told said ANYTHING about them doing classic servers, either with genuine pre-CU code, nor with duckserver code.
There will be no classic servers. The game as it now is about all you are going to get. The closest thing to a "rollback" they were considering was a nudging of the combat system back towards the CU system a little more than it is currently, and in possibly bringing back more old professions (such as TKA) via future expertise systems. This isn't working, and it's reflected in the fact that they've lost the subscriber gains of CH6 almost as fast as they gained them.
My impression is that at this point they are ready to just give up. After all, the SOE DCMMO "Russian Front" always needs some more Devs." taken from: Just slipped in under the transom
0% chance. Yes, they are that stupid. There is tons of evidence that this is the ONLY certain way they can regain SWG vets and do it fast...
John Smedley on down are that dumb. And that arrogant.
But there WILL be classic servers nonetheless... 2008 will be the year that the disgruntled Pre CU vets take our game back. To what extent SWG still exists will be classic servers by the end of 2008.
Smed will hype the DCMMO (which is into it's FOURTH Dev team, and btw, the lead SOE dev is none other than the Dork Lord Heliass!!!)... The DCMMO is the "Russian Front" of SOE... It's doomed to fail even if it gets released.
2008 will begin with the NGE, NoobPawn and BlixIdiot... It will end with those people not involved in SWG. It will end with no Sony SWG... It will end with no LEC SWG...
The emulator is the only SWG that survives the next year.
Problem is, that the industry KNOWS that the gamers are not "kids". Their own research says the average gamer is 33, and has been playing games for 12 years. Their own research shows that the average game buyer is 38 years, where 92% of PC games bouthg and 80% of Console games bought are by people above the age of 18. Their own research says 36% of parents play videogames. Heck, their own research says 38% of gamers are women! Of the game population. 31% are women over 18, while "kids" 17 and under only hold 20% of the market! This from their own industry (Entertainment Software Association, look it up, they have the numbers, they have the research)
SOE are run by a senile Smedley and his bunch of moneylovin nongamer people, who just don't understand WHAT market they are in, and goes by their own belief that gamers are lil kiddies with parents creditcards, instead of listening to what their own industry has to say.
Knowing something and understanding the implications are two different things. Did SOE fail in understanding those demographics? Certainly. But they were not unique. The industry as a whole failed to understand those demos, just as have the gamers themselves. The NGE was a watershed event in that all actors woke up to the true nature of gamers- online gamers in particular - and what that group can do when prodded into action.
In this regard, the NGE was a good thing. As I said, I seriously doubt something like this will ever happen again. But it had to happen once.
If the chuckleheads of SOE read their own official forums, they'd discover that at least part of their audience was composed of adults, many of whom were professionals themselves, who saw just how amateur hour the SWG team often was. In beta, they seemed to have pride in their work, asking for help with finding things that needed polish. Once the game went gold, all those concerns seemed to vanish into thin air, and it showed in the game, badly.
Many of SWGs harshest critics still loved the game and wanted to see it succeed, but SOE was uninterested in their help, which consisted of things like submitting bug reports on TC, and the bugs were allowed to go to the production servers even thought hey were found and reported on TC.
Which led, eventually, with those customers voting the only way that would get Smedley's attention...falling subscription numbers.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
If the chuckleheads of SOE read their own official forums, they'd discover that at least part of their audience was composed of adults, many of whom were professionals themselves, who saw just how amateur hour the SWG team often was. In beta, they seemed to have pride in their work, asking for help with finding things that needed polish. Once the game went gold, all those concerns seemed to vanish into thin air, and it showed in the game, badly. Many of SWGs harshest critics still loved the game and wanted to see it succeed, but SOE was uninterested in their help, which consisted of things like submitting bug reports on TC, and the bugs were allowed to go to the production servers even thought hey were found and reported on TC. Which led, eventually, with those customers voting the only way that would get Smedley's attention...falling subscription numbers.
The game was doomed on day 1. You guys should stop saying it's CU or NGE that killed it.
Oh and I posted a blog about SWG. Read it up. Looking for comments.
Have u ever played SWG matraque? LOL you claim to have been a beta tester yet you say it was doomed from day 1? How do u explain Pre-cu haaving 250k players and nge barely 50k smudged numbers or not? I do blame NGE for the downfall of SWG theres no other explanation other then NGE sucks and is a pos.For someone who whos trying be a wantabe mmorpg mod here you sure dont know much but amature propaganda and make believe history.Know what your talking about before you tell everyone to stop doing something you obviously dont know much about.
Originally posted by matraque
The game was doomed on day 1. You guys should stop saying it's CU or NGE that killed it.
Oh and I posted a blog about SWG. Read it up. Looking for comments.
Comments
Sony is already a dead company walking. The PS/3 is a distant third in console sales, and they bet their whole company on it. The only thing floating Sony right now is their movie division. How much more mileage will they be able to get out of Spiderman sequels anyway?
All it will take is a season of box office bombs for Sony to call in the receivers.
BTW, one bad season by Sony pictures may get SOE in trouble as well, it's a division of Sony Pictures.
I'd say that it's inevitable that Sony will be dismembered as a company, with the profitable movie/media company seperated from the failing consumer electronics company. SOE may meet it's demise if their 2008 slate of new MMOs fail to achieve any sort of market success, which I fully expect.
Any money that SOE, or for that matter Blizzard, or Funcom, or any other MMO publisher gives to MMORPG.COM is not a donation, or charity. It's to put their products on the site to get noticed.
One of the inherent problems of the gaming press, both dead tree and online, is that in order to keep going, they need to accept advertising from those trying to get their products in front of an audience that is predisposed to buy it. Advertising pays for this site...its graphics, its administration, sending reporters to Leipzig and Austin. Thus the advertisers can and do have an impact on the editorial positions of a web site or any gaming magazine. To keep running, they need advertisers, they can't be too crtiical of the games published by those advertisers, or the advertisers might go away. Advertiser pressure is what got Don Imus fired. It works the same way in all media that depends on advertising for their financial well-being.
So they have to walk a fine line to attract gamers to their site with interesting and engaging content, and that content not offending their advertisers too much.
Just about all commerical media operates under this constraint to one extent or another. The pressure is sometimes subtle, sometimes not. For example, a local paper running investigative stories on shady practices by local car dealerships might find all of the dealerships no longer advertising with them. It's the way the game is played.
Another way to pressre the press is to deny access. This is used extensively in Washington, for example. Reporters who do not play ball with politicians, or are critical, find themselves denied access to the politicans, and without that they don't have a story...or at least not one they can easily slap together. Not allowing your developers to be interviewd by Computer Gaming World or MMORPG.COM if those media are too critical is a way of sending a message to the magazine or web site that they should tone down perceived criticism of the publisher's products.
It's not unheard of for a site to lavish praise on one product, but be less than enthusiastic about another product, and still get pressured on the latter.
The gaming media exists to help put games into the market. How many times have you read an article about some soon to be released game that touts all its amazing features, then you buy the game and discover that it's pretty much unplayable? Hence concern about hype, and how the gaming media walk yet another fine line.
So it's hardly chairty that motivates Vivendi, or Funcom to support MMORPG.COM. They need to get their product before the public, and MMORPG.COM is a great way to do it...even if MMORPG.COM isn't fully complimentary. This is, after all, business.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Siobabble heres the difference between Blizzard funcom and SOE. I dont see Blizzard or funcom paying mmorpg.com to manipulate forums and to moderate them how they see fit and to censor what they think should be and shouldnt be posted.Theres the difference. I dont see blizzard or funcom doing that or trying use charity donations to offset bad publicity in general.As for donations there getting them and so far mmorpg.com has more then bent over thrown there pants and underwear to the wind lol. To also point out Funcom and Blizzard make working decent games and dont delete character proffesions and make 22 plus different versions of a game and try to copy one anothers engine Like SOE has been trying and is still trying to do.
*Games on our site will be treated just as we treat people. Unsubstantiated comments about specific or general games will be penalized in nearly the same way attacks against people will. The exception is that you can say mean things about games provided you back it up with reasons.
Example: "Game X sucks." is not a legitimate comment. "Game X sucks, because..." is acceptable.
Thank you,
The Staff
MMORPG.COM
Blizzard doesn't need to manipulate speech concerning their operations.
SOE does.
I'd like to ask Stradden a straight question, and get a straight answer: Have you received any revenue from SOE in the past year?
Blizzard can run for years even if they don't release any more MMOs... SOE is desperately seeking anything to remain relevant. And failing. Badly.
They aren't even known as the "Everquest company" anymore. They are known as the "company that F-ed the Star Wars Galaxies players".
The real fault is the weakness of todays press where the "news" industry has been turned from a public service required by the government for the rights for free broadcasting (paid for by our tax dollars) to a for profit business as part of a mega conglomarate of media where 5 companies try and keep there oliagarchy and there is no government or large independant media outlet opposition it leads to a weak press core. This has a more drastic impact on smaller vulnerable publications subject to the monopolostic practices which act in direct constrast the foundation and principles of our government framework relating to supression of free speech and free press by the governments own negligence of its public license to the media outlets. There is a strong case to be made that the government is turning a blind eye thus making them defacto partners in the censorship and in essense in agreement with the supression of free speech and press.
There is a compelling case to be made to have the government require 100% seperation of the news divisions of NBC, CBS and ABC from any sort of corporate governence and to highly scrutinize news division heads hirings and firings and putting a wall between those news organizations and marketing that wouldn't permit marketing to entire into news broadcasting as previously mentioned because that is paid for by us tax payers already and we deserve a broadcast of news we paid for not one slanted by ad dollars.
While I say this I realize some will misinterrupt this to mean more then it is. I am not stating that its extremely bad right now and blatant and nothing gets reported if its bad for the ad business. There are many hard editorials and comments from news organizations that weren't swayed by some trite marketing concern. I am just pointing out why the press is weak today verse in the past. Its not a coordinated effort by any political leadership or secret democrat or republican elite group. I just think it happened with the changes to media over the years and the government has fallen behind the curve on helping to protect free press and free speech.
The government is making some serious headway in that regard when it comes media delivered through mobile networks and some corporations like Google are very much into understanding open media and its positive affects while greatly profiting from it. Just the fact that the next generation mobile network is going to be required to be "Open" with phones and media is a real positive step.
I know this got totally off topic but I think Sio and I are relavant somehow to this topic as a whole on publicity, open media, open discussions and the entire fabric of corporate media interaction with the public.
Oh and there is nothing wrong with entertainment news Fox, MSNBC, CNN and so on. They can do what they want. However, I'd think they'd have to fall into line with the larger companies to remain competative. I think it would strengthen the press to better serve its roll to the public and I think you'd see a tanigable difference in News Broadcasts with truly independent news outlets.
So Enron donated to charity? And now we have to lub em for their contribution to the poor?
aaaaaaaw, thats sooooo nice of Enron, they are a top notch company no matter what the haters say! They donated to charity!!
Excellent point!
And Enron is a very good analogue of SOE. The problem is that law hasn't yet caught up to the MMO industry in terms of making illegal the unethical (massive secret gameplay changes) and borderline fradulent (expansions released incomplete, expansions sold advertising features for professions that they knew would be taken out within weeks) practices.
Fact of the matter is, if the law protected consumers of MMOs the way they do consumers of energy (Enron), Smed and others would have done a perp walk over the NGE.
BTW, it's pretty much a given that there is going to be a massive strike in Hollywood in a few months, of the actors, writers, and workers unions at the same time. This will starve Sony Pictures of revenue. Sony Pictures is the part of Sony that is propping up the rest of the rotten corpse...
You make an excellent point, cabalist, if overstated. SOE does not equate to Enron as SOE did not (lacking evidence to the contrary) set out with malice to defraud anyone. They did, however, seriously misread the market's consumer base, something of which the rest of the industry was guilty, as well.
It is not that the law does not protect game consumers the same as everyone else. It does. It is the fact that the game industry is relatively young, giving at least the perception that gamers are "kids," unaware of their rights under law. This is a perception that began to change after the NGE. There were organized protests, efforts to bring legal action - some ill-advised and misdirected - and a clear indication that it wasn't just "junior" who lost his favorite toy. Observers inside and outside the game industry saw this reaction - even the incoherent screaming - as indication that the market had matured - "grown up," - as any market does. Once a consumer base matures, it defines certain expectations of value and quality. The MMO market matured more than SOE or anyone realized, which is why they got spanked so hard over the NGE.
The game market as we know it has been growing steadily over the last 20+ years. Kids have grown up with Atari, Nintendo, PS, XBox and PC games. Those "kids" are now 20, 30, even 40+ years old. How long did the industry think they could continue business as usual, releasing buggy, incomplete product, and treating customers only as a credit card number? The game industry is larger than the movie industry in terms of money generated. With that much money comes notice. Gamers are now becoming voting citizens in massive numbers and will start demanding quality from games the same as any other consumer product. If consumers can't convince the industry to go along, they will bring government assets to bare.
This is why it is unlikely you will see anything like the NGE happen again, even from SOE. The consumer base has moved out of Mom's house, so to speak. The industry has noticed, news and press outlets have noticed and legal and government wags have noticed.
You make an excellent point, cabalist, if overstated. SOE does not equate to Enron as SOE did not (lacking evidence to the contrary) set out with malice to defraud anyone. They did, however, seriously misread the market's consumer base, something of which the rest of the industry was guilty, as well.
It is not that the law does not protect game consumers the same as everyone else. It does. It is the fact that the game industry is relatively young, giving at least the perception that gamers are "kids," unaware of their rights under law. This is a perception that began to change after the NGE. There were organized protests, efforts to bring legal action - some ill-advised and misdirected - and a clear indication that it wasn't just "junior" who lost his favorite toy. Observers inside and outside the game industry saw this reaction - even the incoherent screaming - as indication that the market had matured - "grown up," - as any market does. Once a consumer base matures, it defines certain expectations of value and quality. The MMO market matured more than SOE or anyone realized, which is why they got spanked so hard over the NGE.
The game market as we know it has been growing steadily over the last 20+ years. Kids have grown up with Atari, Nintendo, PS, XBox and PC games. Those "kids" are now 20, 30, even 40+ years old. How long did the industry think they could continue business as usual, releasing buggy, incomplete product, and treating customers only as a credit card number? The game industry is larger than the movie industry in terms of money generated. With that much money comes notice. Gamers are now becoming voting citizens in massive numbers and will start demanding quality from games the same as any other consumer product. If consumers can't convince the industry to go along, they will bring government assets to bare.
This is why it is unlikely you will see anything like the NGE happen again, even from SOE. The consumer base has moved out of Mom's house, so to speak. The industry has noticed, news and press outlets have noticed and legal and government wags have noticed.
This should come as a huge relief to all those who are veterans of SWG. Personally, I've noticed a certain trend in the right direction coming from SOE, quite prevalent in the direction they have taken with EQ2. They seem to be taking their customers far more seriously these days, and who knows, maybe one day they'll decide to do SWG2, and will have learned a bit about how to proceed.
I acknowledge that people have legit gripes with SOE. Personally, I have no real feelings toward the company as a whole one way or the other.
My only point was that charitable donations should always be encouraged. It's a good thing.
And yes, I do see the irony of giving such a donation for a demo project...
I'd be a little less visible defending them if I were you. It's not as if there is anything for your site to gain anyway, as SOE isn't even really a legit contender in the MMO marketplace anymore. Are they even top 5 in subs anymore if you combine all their games? SOE is at best a 2nd tier publisher at this point, and they are rapidly falling into the third tier.
SOE has long been eclipsed by Blizzard, NCSoft, and yes, even Turbine, which has 4 mil subs for LOTRO...
SWG isn't even the #1 sci-fi MMO anymore... EVE has long surpassed it in subs. It's a great game, it's Pre-CU in space. Whenever you mention the NGE to any CCP people they thank SOE for it... Oh, and Eve is getting a ground game...
excuse me, but it's 4 million CHARACTERS.... Every compagny twists their numbers. Turbine does, SOE, Blizzard, NCSoft and yes, you favorite one too...
eqnext.wikia.com
Problem is, that the industry KNOWS that the gamers are not "kids".
Their own research says the average gamer is 33, and has been playing games for 12 years.
Their own research shows that the average game buyer is 38 years, where 92% of PC games bouthg and 80% of Console games bought are by people above the age of 18.
Their own research says 36% of parents play videogames.
Heck, their own research says 38% of gamers are women! Of the game population. 31% are women over 18, while "kids" 17 and under only hold 20% of the market!
This from their own industry (Entertainment Software Association, look it up, they have the numbers, they have the research)
SOE are run by a senile Smedley and his bunch of moneylovin nongamer people, who just don't understand WHAT market they are in, and goes by their own belief that gamers are lil kiddies with parents creditcards, instead of listening to what their own industry has to say.
Edit: Oops, forgot to add a link that shows the ignorance of SOE: www.theesa.com/about/esa_members.php
You guys are something.... I bet that if SOE would release Pre-CU server, support them and give you a lifetime subscription for free you would still whine.
Don't gimme that EMU crap... everyone knows emu shards sucks.
eqnext.wikia.com
Hey matrague what u leave out of your whining post there is that Blizzard funcom and other mmo companies dont donate to charity to offset there horrible reputation and go out of there way to publicize it like SOE does. Sure they may fudge the numbers buts that nothing compared to what SOE has done. Blizzard doesnt change wow 22 times over they dont delete whole proffessions and bring out a expansion pull a bait and switch on customers they dont disable weapons in game and then re enable them and claim them as new content i could go on here making my point.As for if SOE made a pre-cu server and it was free wed still complain first off I will never give money to SOE or waste my time on any sony product everything they make is total junk and just worthless. No matter what version of SWG there is its tied in with sony so if theyre ever is a version of SWG that is out of beta into live which 4 years and going there hasnt been yet <-- I wouldnt waste my time because it will always be musical versions.Im wanting SWG to die personally its a huge stain on the Star wars name its embarrasment i dont honestly know how lucas lets its exist its just a disgrace and flat out POS. So i hope you put that in your mmorpg blog there along with SOE'S huge donation to offset there turd stuck in the toilet that wont go away.So as long as SWG is in existence i will complain and do what i can to take it down SOE is doing that for me %98 they have a whole staff and intern dev team that is helping me so were all on a roll
*Games on our site will be treated just as we treat people. Unsubstantiated comments about specific or general games will be penalized in nearly the same way attacks against people will. The exception is that you can say mean things about games provided you back it up with reasons.
Example: "Game X sucks." is not a legitimate comment. "Game X sucks, because..." is acceptable.
Thank you,
The Staff
MMORPG.COM
Let them offer us this, then see if we do whine before trolling with this flame of yours.
We WANT OUR GAME BACK... That is what we are for.
Give us our game back. See what happens.. Why, SWG might actually gain PAYING subs instead of a bubble from a free trial gimmick.
Let them offer us this, then see if we do whine before trolling with this flame of yours.
We WANT OUR GAME BACK... That is what we are for.
Give us our game back. See what happens.. Why, SWG might actually gain PAYING subs instead of a bubble from a free trial gimmick.
cabalist 9/09/07 11:46:43 PM"Nothing in what I was told said ANYTHING about them doing classic servers, either with genuine pre-CU code, nor with duckserver code.
There will be no classic servers. The game as it now is about all you are going to get. The closest thing to a "rollback" they were considering was a nudging of the combat system back towards the CU system a little more than it is currently, and in possibly bringing back more old professions (such as TKA) via future expertise systems. This isn't working, and it's reflected in the fact that they've lost the subscriber gains of CH6 almost as fast as they gained them.
My impression is that at this point they are ready to just give up. After all, the SOE DCMMO "Russian Front" always needs some more Devs." taken from: Just slipped in under the transom
SOE is not going to do classic SWG servers.
0% chance. Yes, they are that stupid. There is tons of evidence that this is the ONLY certain way they can regain SWG vets and do it fast...
John Smedley on down are that dumb. And that arrogant.
But there WILL be classic servers nonetheless... 2008 will be the year that the disgruntled Pre CU vets take our game back. To what extent SWG still exists will be classic servers by the end of 2008.
Smed will hype the DCMMO (which is into it's FOURTH Dev team, and btw, the lead SOE dev is none other than the Dork Lord Heliass!!!)... The DCMMO is the "Russian Front" of SOE... It's doomed to fail even if it gets released.
2008 will begin with the NGE, NoobPawn and BlixIdiot... It will end with those people not involved in SWG. It will end with no Sony SWG... It will end with no LEC SWG...
The emulator is the only SWG that survives the next year.
Knowing something and understanding the implications are two different things. Did SOE fail in understanding those demographics? Certainly. But they were not unique. The industry as a whole failed to understand those demos, just as have the gamers themselves. The NGE was a watershed event in that all actors woke up to the true nature of gamers- online gamers in particular - and what that group can do when prodded into action.
In this regard, the NGE was a good thing. As I said, I seriously doubt something like this will ever happen again. But it had to happen once.
If the chuckleheads of SOE read their own official forums, they'd discover that at least part of their audience was composed of adults, many of whom were professionals themselves, who saw just how amateur hour the SWG team often was. In beta, they seemed to have pride in their work, asking for help with finding things that needed polish. Once the game went gold, all those concerns seemed to vanish into thin air, and it showed in the game, badly.
Many of SWGs harshest critics still loved the game and wanted to see it succeed, but SOE was uninterested in their help, which consisted of things like submitting bug reports on TC, and the bugs were allowed to go to the production servers even thought hey were found and reported on TC.
Which led, eventually, with those customers voting the only way that would get Smedley's attention...falling subscription numbers.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Oh and I posted a blog about SWG. Read it up. Looking for comments.
eqnext.wikia.com
Have u ever played SWG matraque? LOL you claim to have been a beta tester yet you say it was doomed from day 1? How do u explain Pre-cu haaving 250k players and nge barely 50k smudged numbers or not? I do blame NGE for the downfall of SWG theres no other explanation other then NGE sucks and is a pos.For someone who whos trying be a wantabe mmorpg mod here you sure dont know much but amature propaganda and make believe history.Know what your talking about before you tell everyone to stop doing something you obviously dont know much about.