Nice ring fan boi , are you like a commander of fan bois with that ring i guess you must be??
LOL. I guess that is your answer to everytihg. Try to insult everyone when you can't possible come up with an intelligent response to their comments.
Don't bother with him Grindalyx.
Some people just like to be in denial about LOTRO.
Yeah i know. I just find his attempts at looking cool and macho on this forum rather hilarous. But then i guess trolls have such small brains that only attempts at instulting people are considered intelligent to them.
I consider myself a hard-core player (I played MANY MMOs, being the best the SWG pre-NGE, where I got my Jedi playing like mad).
I do like PvP, I think a MMO without PvP is not a MMO.
Also, I do like games where you do impact the world, I do not like instance, I do enjoy freedom.
Thats why I bashed LOTRO a month ago, in this very board. I have played the open beta, and didnt liked because all I said before. For me, it wasnt a real MMO. Being polished isnt enough, it was well polished because havent any content.
However, after debating with someone in here (trying to prove my point of view), this person (which I do not remember the name) appointed some good things, specially the fact that Turbine was not only putting new contents FASTLY, but also venturing where it hasnt before (for cowardice, in my opinion at the time). Housing to say one...
Then I tested it again, deeply.
And I have humility enough to come here and say:
I WAS WRONG!
The game is, indeed, fun, the PvM (which I bashed so much) is fun, the lore is intact, and I am having a lot of good time, even being a hard-core player. I do believe Turbine will invest on their PvM instead open PvP (which now I think its a good idea) . Long time I do not smile to a MMO, like I do now (I am a SWG mourner...)
I will never take this game seriously until they have evil players. I am a mega LOTR's fan and the minute I heard there was not a player ran evil side I basically ignored it since. I would have played an elf or dwarf so its not like I wanted to play an orc. The point is I want to feel that I am in an immersive world where I have to look over my shoulder for orc players creeping up with a big knife. Its just not LOTR without players having the option to play either side. They might as well put a warning on the box stating "This game is made for Carebears and has a rating of NOOB"
Thanks for your opinion. For that is all it is. Having all out PvP isn't what makes it LOTR. It is the storyline that makes it LOTR. BTW your last comment about carebears and noobs cost you all consideration i might of had for your opinion.
Heh... There's no point in debating it with those folks. They want PvP with a side of MMO. Basically, Unreal Tournament with levels and uber gear.
If someone put out a MMO based on the hippie era and called it "Make Love, Not War", there'd still be people in its forums saying "This MMO needs real PvP, otherwise it's carebear and I'll never play it. I want the thrill of having to look over my shoulder for some strung out hippie in tie-dye looking to steal my bong..."
I still do not understand why they aren't spending their time in the plethora of MMOs out there now that already have PvP in them. I know they're out there. I've played several of them.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I consider myself a hard-core player (I played MANY MMOs, being the best the SWG pre-NGE, where I got my Jedi playing like mad). I do like PvP, I think a MMO without PvP is not a MMO. Also, I do like games where you do impact the world, I do not like instance, I do enjoy freedom. Thats why I bashed LOTRO a month ago, in this very board. I have played the open beta, and didnt liked because all I said before. For me, it wasnt a real MMO. Being polished isnt enough, it was well polished because havent any content. However, after debating with someone in here (trying to prove my point of view), this person (which I do not remember the name) appointed some good things, specially the fact that Turbine was not only putting new contents FASTLY, but also venturing where it hasnt before (for cowardice, in my opinion at the time). Housing to say one... Then I tested it again, deeply. And I have humility enough to come here and say: I WAS WRONG! The game is, indeed, fun, the PvM (which I bashed so much) is fun, the lore is intact, and I am having a lot of good time, even being a hard-core player. I do believe Turbine will invest on their PvM instead open PvP (which now I think its a good idea) . Long time I do not smile to a MMO, like I do now (I am a SWG mourner...)
Well, good on ya for setting aside your prejudices and giving it another go Even if you ended up not liking it anyway, at least you gave it another shot.
I dismissed LoTRO after trying it in Beta, myself. But seeing all the praise it was getting, my curiosity got the best of me, I figured "there's gotta be something I missed".. and I tried it again. Now I love it.
Your situation is not at all unusual, in my opinion. I think alot of people base their opinions of games on very limited exposure. Or, otherwise, take what what they hear or read at face value. Not only with this game, but in others. I know peopel who *hated* WoW - even though they'd never played it. They were hardcore Lineage 2 fans and WoW was just too "kiddie" for them... "World of Walt Disney" as they put it. 'til they decided to give it a try. Many of them ended up saying "Man, I was wrong about this game.. I wish I'd tried it sooner". I've seen similar situations with Final Fantasy XI and with other MMOs.
I think people need to:
1. Not rely so much on what they read or hear 2nd or 3rd hand, but try it themselves.
2. Give it a fair shot and play it for what it *is* - not only look to pick it apart for what it isn't.
In the end, they still may not like the game.. but at least they gave it a fair shot, instead of dismissing it based on 2nd or 3rd hand information.
Anyways... hope you continue to enjoy LoTRO. I think youll find the more you play it, the more it has to offer.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Yes, we've all heard Turbine's reasons for LOTRO being Freeps only for normal play, even one of the devs saying "it will never happen" with respect to playing the evil races as long as he's in charge. Some of us have defended it, some have rallied against it. However, at the transcript from the 9/10 Stratics Dev Chat, we see:
Q: So, why did you go the route of not allowing to play as Saruman's minions, in pursuit of their own dark agendas?
A: So, there are numerous reasons as to why we didn't chase that down for launch. Most of them add up to the combination of Time and Quality. Time - in the sense that LOTRO is taking place before the War gets into full swing. Quality - in the sense that building a high quality content experience is... well, hard. We managed to do it for the Free People. Doubling down would be very difficult, and likely compromise the game for others. So, it's not to say we won't ever go down that road... You can just expect it to be further down the line.
They're not saying they absolutely will, but they at least seem to be giving more consideration to the idea now. Maybe those of you who prefer the Dark Side will be happy someday after all?
Uhhh, this line of thinking just common since... You do not have to make a MMO with 4 expansions 200 races and 9billions zones right off the bat.
If you do, it will be shitty.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Once I learned that we would not be able to play the evil side, I was very disappointed. Even though I got a free copy, I didn't even bother loading it. Finally, after my son in law who gave me the copy kept nagging me, I loaded it up and played a few levels.
Graphics were quite excellent, certainly one of the best, if not the best. The quest system was polished, but the game play somewhat lacking.
Finally, I gave PvMP a go. I must say that Turbine have manage to provide something a little different. Been playing it ever since, and it does suit me. Simple repeatable quests, which are nice when you just want to chill, and some easily accessable PvP. Dispite, a lot of complaints, is not that unbalanced (although it can be at times).
Would I play an orc, or warg from level 1 -50 ? Well probably not, would I like better progression on my level 50 monster - yes please So my suggestion is that both creep and freep get to level up a few more levels from 50 to say 60. Add a bit of creep instances etc. and I suspect Turbine will have a real hit.
Basically LOTRO will go the route every other game has taken.. We do not offer..PvP Wait...we will think about it though...and add it later if the demand is there...PvMP is not cutting it...ok, ok...we give...play an Orc.. Good for Turbine...Cheers
Heh... There's no point in debating it with those folks. They want PvP with a side of MMO. Basically, Unreal Tournament with levels and uber gear. If someone put out a MMO based on the hippie era and called it "Make Love, Not War", there'd still be people in its forums saying "This MMO needs real PvP, otherwise it's carebear and I'll never play it. I want the thrill of having to look over my shoulder for some strung out hippie in tie-dye looking to steal my bong..."
qft
and for lol
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Yes, we've all heard Turbine's reasons for LOTRO being Freeps only for normal play, even one of the devs saying "it will never happen" with respect to playing the evil races as long as he's in charge. Some of us have defended it, some have rallied against it. However, at the transcript from the 9/10 Stratics Dev Chat, we see:
Q: So, why did you go the route of not allowing to play as Saruman's minions, in pursuit of their own dark agendas?
A: So, there are numerous reasons as to why we didn't chase that down for launch. Most of them add up to the combination of Time and Quality. Time - in the sense that LOTRO is taking place before the War gets into full swing. Quality - in the sense that building a high quality content experience is... well, hard. We managed to do it for the Free People. Doubling down would be very difficult, and likely compromise the game for others. So, it's not to say we won't ever go down that road... You can just expect it to be further down the line.
They're not saying they absolutely will, but they at least seem to be giving more consideration to the idea now. Maybe those of you who prefer the Dark Side will be happy someday after all?
Uhhh, this line of thinking just common since... You do not have to make a MMO with 4 expansions 200 races and 9billions zones right off the bat.
If you do, it will be shitty.
Shhh! Stop making sense like that!
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
This whole leaving it and coming back thing seems to be a recurring theme in LOTRO. I was also in the beta, and after a couple of days testing, it just didn't grab me at all. Then a few weeks ago, a friend convinced me to play, and now I can't get enough of it. Every few days I learn something new, and the little details (and the beautiful scenery) have me scrabbling for more. Very odd indeed. And I tell you.. it's so nice to get on a RP server and actually see people roleplaying as a standard, and not seeing 500 people duelling outside the Prancing Pony, or a ton of naked lesbian night elves (perhaps they do in LOTRO, but it's more descreet). Not that I'm against that, but it gets a little cliched.. (final disclaimer: substitute night elves with twi'leks or whatever you fancy).
There are plenty of other MMOs out there that will provide exactly what you're asking for. Why not play them?
Because no one plays the FFA PVP games currently out there and other than DF nothing much is on the horizon for the "hardcore" PVP crowd to play....hence they slam every game being released that doesn't have this style of PVP in it.
Hmm... then perhaps the market is telling developers that there is no profit in FFA PvP? How can some of you guys keep claiming that FFA PvP is where it's at when the reality is that FFA PvP just doesn't sell.
The lone exception to this seems to be EvE Online. It could be they will be the spark for more developers to risk going back into the FFA PvP genre. But please... stop with the mantra of FFA PVP being the holy grail of MMO gaming. It's been done before... many times. Truth be told... the vast majority of gamers don't like it. So, low subs = dead genre.
Well if they introduce factions and housing to the game. It would sure as hell boost the sub numbers. LOTRO is a good game polished and great content quests wise. Its time to take it to the next level....
In a month there will be housing. The only factions they have in the game are basically in monster play. You play either a monster or a free person. I don't count the rep system as factions although in the game they call it getting rep with each faction.
As another poster said, you folks in the camp looking for more a more open and integrated PvP element in LOTRO are reading too much into that quote. I guarantee that Turbine will not implement PvP in the manner that some of you are thinking is implied by that statement in the Dev chat for a very long time, if ever. They have PvMP and may add the ability to adventure in ME as a evil character in the far future but I'm pretty confident that it'll never play out in the manner of WoW and other current and future PvP-heavy MMO's. PvMP is the only PVP model that currently fits into the parameters they are bound to. Turbine is truly bound by the lore and license and take that seriously when entertaining changes to gameplay. A number of us applaud them for this stance (myself included) and frankly would be concerned if they approached the growth of the game in any other manner. I like PvP elements in a game but not at the expense of the overall package. PvP in the more open manner that some are envisioning would rob LOTRO of the uniqueness that it brings to the genre and would truly make it a cookie cutter fantasy MMO like so many of you like to decry. You all can continue to hope and read into everything the Devs say but it's better to face the fact that Turbine will never turn it into the open PvP experience some are clamoring for. And that will keep me a happy LOTRO player for a long time to come.
i'm sorry, but what are you talking about?
keeping to the lore? going on JUST the movies, it was one fight after another, oftentimes HUGE fights and ambushes.
i honestly have no idea what your post is supposed to mean, in context with 'keeping the the LOTR lore'.
PvMP is the only PVP model that currently fits into the parameters they are bound to. <<< what do you mean by that? are you trying to say that being an evil pirate/human won't happen and it'd only be orc types? are you saying that somehow, the lore states that players can only be "good guys". because a lot of books are written from the perspective of the hero, yet the games allow you to play both sides and no one has ever seen that as NOT keeping with the lore for any game yet.
give it a year. when all the $199 guys have their lifetime memberships and oh look, 13 months * normal monthly fee = lifetime membership price.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
There are plenty of other MMOs out there that will provide exactly what you're asking for. Why not play them?
Because no one plays the FFA PVP games currently out there and other than DF nothing much is on the horizon for the "hardcore" PVP crowd to play....hence they slam every game being released that doesn't have this style of PVP in it.
Hmm... then perhaps the market is telling developers that there is no profit in FFA PvP? How can some of you guys keep claiming that FFA PvP is where it's at when the reality is that FFA PvP just doesn't sell.
The lone exception to this seems to be EvE Online. It could be they will be the spark for more developers to risk going back into the FFA PvP genre. But please... stop with the mantra of FFA PVP being the holy grail of MMO gaming. It's been done before... many times. Truth be told... the vast majority of gamers don't like it. So, low subs = dead genre.
you're right and the market totally supports your claims... since no one wants to make ffa pvp, the pvpers have to go to fps to get "real pvp". see - halo 3.
so maybe, just maybe, because of a handful of vocal whiners, the limited pvp stays or becomes more limited and the ones that want a lot of pvp go to fps BECAUSE they have no other choice.
sort of like the logic of devs in COx not creating epic ATs for villains --- there's not many 50s on villain side. cov has been out two years and has next to no expansions for it at all, 75% of the expansion content has been hero side only since cov was released. so, there's nothing to do once you hit max level there, and there's no bonus AT to unlock once you hit lvl 50, unlike heroes, who unlock two new ATs (at = archetype = class basically). so no one levels to 50 on the villain side cuz there's nothing to unlock; but they won't put anything to unlock because there's so few villain lvl 50s....
same sort of thinking with the anti-pvp post i quoted.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Allowing people to play the bad guys would bring more people to the game (especially if it meant real pvp). But the fact is LOTRO is never going to stand up to AoC and Warhammer (as well as WoW with its next addon coming). Even if they improved the game 10 times over they would never do it in time to win back players, with MMOs it's all about first impressions.
Thanks for your opinion. Though i don't think the casual players out there are clambering to play AoC or warhammer. Hardcore players maybe but that maybe all. It is not a proven fact that real PvP as you put it will bring in the masses to play any game. You know turbine probably realized that trying to compete with AoC and warhammer for the hardcore PvPers wasn't worth it. Could it be that they decided to go a differant route and put out a fun story driven game for people to have fun in. Why try to compete for a playstyle when there is a playstyle out there that hardly anyone has bothered to try to compete for.
Yes i am talking about he casual playstyle. LOTRO does a great job at catering to this playstyle. Were AoC and warhammer can fight over the hardcore players. LOTRO doesn't have to fight over the casual players with anyone. Cause there is no real game out there that caters to them.
why exactly would war/aoc not be casual player friendly?
please elaborate on this and why lotro is casual player friendly.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
AoC has 80 levels for characters to explore through. This seems like a very high number. Will players be expected to quit their jobs or school to achieve this goal?
Craig Morrison:
Levels are of course relative to what it takes to level so having eighty levels in itself doesn't mean it's fast or slow. Conan is being designed to be casual player friendly from the start, and trying to avoid too strenuous a leveling curve.
The "casual" versus "hardcore" question comes up in regards to everything that we do within the game, and we are developing the game with accessibility and fun built in for all types of players. We are making sure that if a player only has an hour to play, then they will be able to participate in either RvR or PvE or both, and have a rewarding experience doing so. We are also ensuring that there is a deep and compelling experience for those players who desire longer play sessions or who play more often. We are applying many different types of balancing measures to help with everything from population between the realms to how a casual gamer gets access to the best items in the game. No stone is being left unturned in our efforts to make WAR fun for all.
I personally think someone just wants to believe that LOTRO is the end all be all of casual.
It was SO casual it kept putting me to sleep...that is a little too casual in my opinion..probably why we see so many posts also of people saying they left because they got bored..
I think both idea's can exist in a game, and it will be marketable to all player types...Personally with all the big hype, WAR is probably also going to the the big seller here...in my opinion...
(Please note, no statement of facts were used in this post except for actual quotes from developers..but it also contains personal opinion based on various feelings of my own, and as well, gathered data by reading various posts, blogs and reviews...so do not misconstrue this post as a stated fact)
Allowing people to play the bad guys would bring more people to the game (especially if it meant real pvp). But the fact is LOTRO is never going to stand up to AoC and Warhammer (as well as WoW with its next addon coming). Even if they improved the game 10 times over they would never do it in time to win back players, with MMOs it's all about first impressions.
Thanks for your opinion. Though i don't think the casual players out there are clambering to play AoC or warhammer. Hardcore players maybe but that maybe all. It is not a proven fact that real PvP as you put it will bring in the masses to play any game. You know turbine probably realized that trying to compete with AoC and warhammer for the hardcore PvPers wasn't worth it. Could it be that they decided to go a differant route and put out a fun story driven game for people to have fun in. Why try to compete for a playstyle when there is a playstyle out there that hardly anyone has bothered to try to compete for.
Yes i am talking about he casual playstyle. LOTRO does a great job at catering to this playstyle. Were AoC and warhammer can fight over the hardcore players. LOTRO doesn't have to fight over the casual players with anyone. Cause there is no real game out there that caters to them.
why exactly would war/aoc not be casual player friendly?
please elaborate on this and why lotro is casual player friendly.
I will admit i should of elaborated. I see the hardcore players likeing war and aoc more due to the PVP centeric of the game. Were as the casual players will be more at home in LOTRO cause there is no mad rush to lvl cap so you can be rule in PVP. This is not to say that neither war or aoc is not casual player friendly. Just that with no hardcore PVP in the game LOTRO doesn't need to worry about the keeping the hardcore players. Cause it will never have what the hardcore players are looking for.
Any game can be casual player friendly, though i see lotro as more player friendly than a game that is PVP centric. This of course is my opinion.
LOTRO has a ´ideology´ (lets call this way) about PvP and we know that any MMO company who try to change the ´ideology´ (the core of the game) from night to day just perish (SOE).
In this ´ideology´ there is no faction against faction on the open world, instead the PvP is limited, very limited. What I think is: Turbine CANT change this, because all their engine is based on this, and making such a monstruous concept change would hurt the game so much to the point that it loses all his player base INCLUDING the Hardcore PvPers who would have better options than a broken PvE game revamped on a free PvP. This has NOTHING to do with lore, in fact is a bit against the lore. However its the model in which the game was built.
The better option would be amplify the PvMP. How? New areas, castles, forts, etc.. to defend, customization on creep, more PvP quests (which works only on PvP, and gradually building a different game (a PvP game) inside the game, but being EXTREMELLY careful to not let the 2 worlds touch it other. As I say, you can take your char to the PvP, and once there huge changes would occur to adapt him to PvP. The quests would give you weapons only usable on PvP, or you could get enhancements to your PvE weapons to make it more suitable to PvP (although the PvE weapon may be usable on PvP, it would not be the same in this ´new game´). Therefore PvPers would play mostly on those 2 or 3 maps, with quests etc... and with his own balance (it would be, to play there) it will be a new start to any level 50 char when he decide to roam PvP lands. Their weapons would be PvP only, and be stacked on castles, forts on PvP land when they leave the place. It would be like the Helm´s Deep on the movies, you get your weapon once on the fort, and let it there once you leave it. This way you would mantain the balance on PvP and PvE. Of course its up to Turbine to develop this in such a manner, it would cause huge headache on PvP land, because keeping the balance (even if ONLY on PvP) its no easy task.
I think they will let the PvP like it is, not making much changes on it, until they have to (AoC or WAR hurts them), however I trully believe on ´more of same´ on PvP (new maps to PvP) in a short / medium term and thats all (no customization, or PvPM quests which could impact the PvP gameplay).
I think it would all be cleared up if it were just accepted as such:
There are three basic types of MMO players...
1. Pro PvP
2. Pro PvE
3. Pro Both.
Some games cater to one type, some cater to the other, some (try to) cater to both. The ideal setting it would seem, then, would be for someone to choose one of the available games that best suits their style, or wait for one that's upcoming.
It makes no sense and achieves nothing to complain about a game like LoTRO or FFXI or any other decidedly PvE game not having open PvP, or not having "enough" of it. They're not designed as open PvP games. They're not marketed as open PvP Games. They're not open PvP games. I don't know about you, but complaining about something not being what it wasn't intended to be in the first place seems a bit ridiculous to me.
If you were looking for a new sports car, are you going to go into an eco-friendly car dealership and then complain about how all the cars only have 4 cylinder 1.2 liter engines, and how they're carebear to not have "real sports cars"? Would you stand there blaming it on the "whiney carebears who can't handle a real sports machine"? I'd hope not. Or, I at least hope I could be one of the sales people there to laugh at the idiocy of it.
If you want open PvP - go look for an open PvP game. If you want PvE with optional PvP, look for that type... and on and on. It's not rocket science, folks.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
If you want open PvP - go look for an open PvP game. If you want PvE with optional PvP, look for that type... and on and on. It's not rocket science, folks.
I think it goes back to the very beginning. UO was only open PvP. A lot of us got our beginning of MMOs in UO. When they added Trammel and the masses voted en mass for PvE... well, that's where it all started.
The people that remember the old UO (pre-Trammel) remember how great it was (for them) to have tons of "sheep" trapped in an open PvP setting. The trouble with that setup is that the "sheep" didn't really want PvP... but since it was the only choice... they put up with it.
When Trammel came out and the Devs of UO and other upcoming MMOs saw how many preferred PvE over open PvP... well, open PvP has never been the same since. Thats my take on it anyway. Until an ambitious Developer with a unique game can prove that open PvP can once again provide subscribers en mass... it will be a PvE marketplace.
Comments
Nice ring fan boi , are you like a commander of fan bois with that ring i guess you must be??
awww somebody got all upset , and told teacher... boohoo
LOL. I guess that is your answer to everytihg. Try to insult everyone when you can't possible come up with an intelligent response to their comments.
Don't bother with him Grindalyx.LOL. I guess that is your answer to everytihg. Try to insult everyone when you can't possible come up with an intelligent response to their comments.
Some people just like to be in denial about LOTRO.
Don't bother with him Grindalyx.LOL. I guess that is your answer to everytihg. Try to insult everyone when you can't possible come up with an intelligent response to their comments.
Some people just like to be in denial about LOTRO.
Yeah i know. I just find his attempts at looking cool and macho on this forum rather hilarous. But then i guess trolls have such small brains that only attempts at instulting people are considered intelligent to them.
I consider myself a hard-core player (I played MANY MMOs, being the best the SWG pre-NGE, where I got my Jedi playing like mad).
I do like PvP, I think a MMO without PvP is not a MMO.
Also, I do like games where you do impact the world, I do not like instance, I do enjoy freedom.
Thats why I bashed LOTRO a month ago, in this very board. I have played the open beta, and didnt liked because all I said before. For me, it wasnt a real MMO. Being polished isnt enough, it was well polished because havent any content.
However, after debating with someone in here (trying to prove my point of view), this person (which I do not remember the name) appointed some good things, specially the fact that Turbine was not only putting new contents FASTLY, but also venturing where it hasnt before (for cowardice, in my opinion at the time). Housing to say one...
Then I tested it again, deeply.
And I have humility enough to come here and say:
I WAS WRONG!
The game is, indeed, fun, the PvM (which I bashed so much) is fun, the lore is intact, and I am having a lot of good time, even being a hard-core player. I do believe Turbine will invest on their PvM instead open PvP (which now I think its a good idea) . Long time I do not smile to a MMO, like I do now (I am a SWG mourner...)
Thanks for your opinion. For that is all it is. Having all out PvP isn't what makes it LOTR. It is the storyline that makes it LOTR. BTW your last comment about carebears and noobs cost you all consideration i might of had for your opinion.
Heh... There's no point in debating it with those folks. They want PvP with a side of MMO. Basically, Unreal Tournament with levels and uber gear.
If someone put out a MMO based on the hippie era and called it "Make Love, Not War", there'd still be people in its forums saying "This MMO needs real PvP, otherwise it's carebear and I'll never play it. I want the thrill of having to look over my shoulder for some strung out hippie in tie-dye looking to steal my bong..."
I still do not understand why they aren't spending their time in the plethora of MMOs out there now that already have PvP in them. I know they're out there. I've played several of them.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Well, good on ya for setting aside your prejudices and giving it another go
Even if you ended up not liking it anyway, at least you gave it another shot.
I dismissed LoTRO after trying it in Beta, myself. But seeing all the praise it was getting, my curiosity got the best of me, I figured "there's gotta be something I missed".. and I tried it again. Now I love it.
Your situation is not at all unusual, in my opinion. I think alot of people base their opinions of games on very limited exposure. Or, otherwise, take what what they hear or read at face value. Not only with this game, but in others. I know peopel who *hated* WoW - even though they'd never played it. They were hardcore Lineage 2 fans and WoW was just too "kiddie" for them... "World of Walt Disney" as they put it. 'til they decided to give it a try. Many of them ended up saying "Man, I was wrong about this game.. I wish I'd tried it sooner". I've seen similar situations with Final Fantasy XI and with other MMOs.
I think people need to:
1. Not rely so much on what they read or hear 2nd or 3rd hand, but try it themselves.
2. Give it a fair shot and play it for what it *is* - not only look to pick it apart for what it isn't.
In the end, they still may not like the game.. but at least they gave it a fair shot, instead of dismissing it based on 2nd or 3rd hand information.
Anyways... hope you continue to enjoy LoTRO. I think youll find the more you play it, the more it has to offer.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
They're not saying they absolutely will, but they at least seem to be giving more consideration to the idea now. Maybe those of you who prefer the Dark Side will be happy someday after all?
Uhhh, this line of thinking just common since... You do not have to make a MMO with 4 expansions 200 races and 9billions zones right off the bat.
If you do, it will be shitty.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Once I learned that we would not be able to play the evil side, I was very disappointed. Even though I got a free copy, I didn't even bother loading it. Finally, after my son in law who gave me the copy kept nagging me, I loaded it up and played a few levels.
Graphics were quite excellent, certainly one of the best, if not the best. The quest system was polished, but the game play somewhat lacking.
Finally, I gave PvMP a go. I must say that Turbine have manage to provide something a little different. Been playing it ever since, and it does suit me. Simple repeatable quests, which are nice when you just want to chill, and some easily accessable PvP. Dispite, a lot of complaints, is not that unbalanced (although it can be at times).
Would I play an orc, or warg from level 1 -50 ? Well probably not, would I like better progression on my level 50 monster - yes please
So my suggestion is that both creep and freep get to level up a few more levels from 50 to say 60. Add a bit of creep instances etc. and I suspect Turbine will have a real hit.
QFT
and for lol
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
They're not saying they absolutely will, but they at least seem to be giving more consideration to the idea now. Maybe those of you who prefer the Dark Side will be happy someday after all?
Uhhh, this line of thinking just common since... You do not have to make a MMO with 4 expansions 200 races and 9billions zones right off the bat.
If you do, it will be shitty.
Shhh! Stop making sense like that!
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
This whole leaving it and coming back thing seems to be a recurring theme in LOTRO. I was also in the beta, and after a couple of days testing, it just didn't grab me at all. Then a few weeks ago, a friend convinced me to play, and now I can't get enough of it. Every few days I learn something new, and the little details (and the beautiful scenery) have me scrabbling for more. Very odd indeed. And I tell you.. it's so nice to get on a RP server and actually see people roleplaying as a standard, and not seeing 500 people duelling outside the Prancing Pony, or a ton of naked lesbian night elves (perhaps they do in LOTRO, but it's more descreet). Not that I'm against that, but it gets a little cliched.. (final disclaimer: substitute night elves with twi'leks or whatever you fancy).
Hmm... then perhaps the market is telling developers that there is no profit in FFA PvP? How can some of you guys keep claiming that FFA PvP is where it's at when the reality is that FFA PvP just doesn't sell.The lone exception to this seems to be EvE Online. It could be they will be the spark for more developers to risk going back into the FFA PvP genre. But please... stop with the mantra of FFA PVP being the holy grail of MMO gaming. It's been done before... many times. Truth be told... the vast majority of gamers don't like it. So, low subs = dead genre.
Well if they introduce factions and housing to the game. It would sure as hell boost the sub numbers.
LOTRO is a good game polished and great content quests wise. Its time to take it to the next level....
Hauken Stormchaser
I want pre-CU back
Station.com : We got your game
Yeah?, Well i want it back!!!
In a month there will be housing. The only factions they have in the game are basically in monster play. You play either a monster or a free person. I don't count the rep system as factions although in the game they call it getting rep with each faction.
i'm sorry, but what are you talking about?
keeping to the lore? going on JUST the movies, it was one fight after another, oftentimes HUGE fights and ambushes.
i honestly have no idea what your post is supposed to mean, in context with 'keeping the the LOTR lore'.
PvMP is the only PVP model that currently fits into the parameters they are bound to. <<< what do you mean by that? are you trying to say that being an evil pirate/human won't happen and it'd only be orc types? are you saying that somehow, the lore states that players can only be "good guys". because a lot of books are written from the perspective of the hero, yet the games allow you to play both sides and no one has ever seen that as NOT keeping with the lore for any game yet.
give it a year. when all the $199 guys have their lifetime memberships and oh look, 13 months * normal monthly fee = lifetime membership price.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Hmm... then perhaps the market is telling developers that there is no profit in FFA PvP? How can some of you guys keep claiming that FFA PvP is where it's at when the reality is that FFA PvP just doesn't sell.The lone exception to this seems to be EvE Online. It could be they will be the spark for more developers to risk going back into the FFA PvP genre. But please... stop with the mantra of FFA PVP being the holy grail of MMO gaming. It's been done before... many times. Truth be told... the vast majority of gamers don't like it. So, low subs = dead genre.
you're right and the market totally supports your claims... since no one wants to make ffa pvp, the pvpers have to go to fps to get "real pvp". see - halo 3.
so maybe, just maybe, because of a handful of vocal whiners, the limited pvp stays or becomes more limited and the ones that want a lot of pvp go to fps BECAUSE they have no other choice.
sort of like the logic of devs in COx not creating epic ATs for villains --- there's not many 50s on villain side. cov has been out two years and has next to no expansions for it at all, 75% of the expansion content has been hero side only since cov was released. so, there's nothing to do once you hit max level there, and there's no bonus AT to unlock once you hit lvl 50, unlike heroes, who unlock two new ATs (at = archetype = class basically). so no one levels to 50 on the villain side cuz there's nothing to unlock; but they won't put anything to unlock because there's so few villain lvl 50s....
same sort of thinking with the anti-pvp post i quoted.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Yes i am talking about he casual playstyle. LOTRO does a great job at catering to this playstyle. Were AoC and warhammer can fight over the hardcore players. LOTRO doesn't have to fight over the casual players with anyone. Cause there is no real game out there that caters to them.
why exactly would war/aoc not be casual player friendly?
please elaborate on this and why lotro is casual player friendly.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I agree...the previous posters info seems to be misleading -
For example: AoC
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?gameId=191&setView=features&loadFeature=963&bhcp=1
Levels are of course relative to what it takes to level so having eighty levels in itself doesn't mean it's fast or slow. Conan is being designed to be casual player friendly from the start, and trying to avoid too strenuous a leveling curve.
And WAR
http://interviews.slashdot.org/interviews/06/11/27/1752236.shtml
The "casual" versus "hardcore" question comes up in regards to everything that we do within the game, and we are developing the game with accessibility and fun built in for all types of players. We are making sure that if a player only has an hour to play, then they will be able to participate in either RvR or PvE or both, and have a rewarding experience doing so. We are also ensuring that there is a deep and compelling experience for those players who desire longer play sessions or who play more often. We are applying many different types of balancing measures to help with everything from population between the realms to how a casual gamer gets access to the best items in the game. No stone is being left unturned in our efforts to make WAR fun for all.
I personally think someone just wants to believe that LOTRO is the end all be all of casual.
It was SO casual it kept putting me to sleep...that is a little too casual in my opinion..probably why we see so many posts also of people saying they left because they got bored..
I think both idea's can exist in a game, and it will be marketable to all player types...Personally with all the big hype, WAR is probably also going to the the big seller here...in my opinion...
(Please note, no statement of facts were used in this post except for actual quotes from developers..but it also contains personal opinion based on various feelings of my own, and as well, gathered data by reading various posts, blogs and reviews...so do not misconstrue this post as a stated fact)
Cheers!
Yes i am talking about he casual playstyle. LOTRO does a great job at catering to this playstyle. Were AoC and warhammer can fight over the hardcore players. LOTRO doesn't have to fight over the casual players with anyone. Cause there is no real game out there that caters to them.
why exactly would war/aoc not be casual player friendly?
please elaborate on this and why lotro is casual player friendly.
I will admit i should of elaborated. I see the hardcore players likeing war and aoc more due to the PVP centeric of the game. Were as the casual players will be more at home in LOTRO cause there is no mad rush to lvl cap so you can be rule in PVP. This is not to say that neither war or aoc is not casual player friendly. Just that with no hardcore PVP in the game LOTRO doesn't need to worry about the keeping the hardcore players. Cause it will never have what the hardcore players are looking for.
Any game can be casual player friendly, though i see lotro as more player friendly than a game that is PVP centric. This of course is my opinion.
LOTRO has a ´ideology´ (lets call this way) about PvP and we know that any MMO company who try to change the ´ideology´ (the core of the game) from night to day just perish (SOE).
In this ´ideology´ there is no faction against faction on the open world, instead the PvP is limited, very limited. What I think is: Turbine CANT change this, because all their engine is based on this, and making such a monstruous concept change would hurt the game so much to the point that it loses all his player base INCLUDING the Hardcore PvPers who would have better options than a broken PvE game revamped on a free PvP. This has NOTHING to do with lore, in fact is a bit against the lore. However its the model in which the game was built.
The better option would be amplify the PvMP. How? New areas, castles, forts, etc.. to defend, customization on creep, more PvP quests (which works only on PvP, and gradually building a different game (a PvP game) inside the game, but being EXTREMELLY careful to not let the 2 worlds touch it other. As I say, you can take your char to the PvP, and once there huge changes would occur to adapt him to PvP. The quests would give you weapons only usable on PvP, or you could get enhancements to your PvE weapons to make it more suitable to PvP (although the PvE weapon may be usable on PvP, it would not be the same in this ´new game´). Therefore PvPers would play mostly on those 2 or 3 maps, with quests etc... and with his own balance (it would be, to play there) it will be a new start to any level 50 char when he decide to roam PvP lands. Their weapons would be PvP only, and be stacked on castles, forts on PvP land when they leave the place. It would be like the Helm´s Deep on the movies, you get your weapon once on the fort, and let it there once you leave it. This way you would mantain the balance on PvP and PvE. Of course its up to Turbine to develop this in such a manner, it would cause huge headache on PvP land, because keeping the balance (even if ONLY on PvP) its no easy task.
I think they will let the PvP like it is, not making much changes on it, until they have to (AoC or WAR hurts them), however I trully believe on ´more of same´ on PvP (new maps to PvP) in a short / medium term and thats all (no customization, or PvPM quests which could impact the PvP gameplay).
I think it would all be cleared up if it were just accepted as such:
There are three basic types of MMO players...
1. Pro PvP
2. Pro PvE
3. Pro Both.
Some games cater to one type, some cater to the other, some (try to) cater to both. The ideal setting it would seem, then, would be for someone to choose one of the available games that best suits their style, or wait for one that's upcoming.
It makes no sense and achieves nothing to complain about a game like LoTRO or FFXI or any other decidedly PvE game not having open PvP, or not having "enough" of it. They're not designed as open PvP games. They're not marketed as open PvP Games. They're not open PvP games. I don't know about you, but complaining about something not being what it wasn't intended to be in the first place seems a bit ridiculous to me.
If you were looking for a new sports car, are you going to go into an eco-friendly car dealership and then complain about how all the cars only have 4 cylinder 1.2 liter engines, and how they're carebear to not have "real sports cars"? Would you stand there blaming it on the "whiney carebears who can't handle a real sports machine"? I'd hope not. Or, I at least hope I could be one of the sales people there to laugh at the idiocy of it.
If you want open PvP - go look for an open PvP game. If you want PvE with optional PvP, look for that type... and on and on. It's not rocket science, folks.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I think it goes back to the very beginning. UO was only open PvP. A lot of us got our beginning of MMOs in UO. When they added Trammel and the masses voted en mass for PvE... well, that's where it all started.
The people that remember the old UO (pre-Trammel) remember how great it was (for them) to have tons of "sheep" trapped in an open PvP setting. The trouble with that setup is that the "sheep" didn't really want PvP... but since it was the only choice... they put up with it.
When Trammel came out and the Devs of UO and other upcoming MMOs saw how many preferred PvE over open PvP... well, open PvP has never been the same since. Thats my take on it anyway. Until an ambitious Developer with a unique game can prove that open PvP can once again provide subscribers en mass... it will be a PvE marketplace.