Considering it took 4 or 5 years to make WoW. If they started now they can release a new MMO around 2012. That would make it around 8 years since WoW's release and a perfect time to release a new MMO.
agreed
Played almost everything... Currently playing nothing... Waiting for: Darkfall, WAR, Guild Wars 2.
Originally posted by cupertino they have confirmed this and they have said "it will be innovative like nothing seen before".
Oh. I am excited. Blizzard has made some great products: Warcraft III: Frozen Throne; Starcraft; Diablo; et al. Yes. I consider World of Warcraft a good product.
At least I know where all the money they made from WoW is going! It was smart not to put it into WoW with actually "good" expansions.
Warcraft 3 blows more than the wind on a stormy night or a nurse who
Starcraft is THE greatest RTS game of all time.
Warcraft 2 was amazing.
Diablo 2 is like WoW: somehow amazingly popular, but no one understands why because the game is boring after a week-month.
All we know is that they are working on another MMO, they have confirmed this and they have said "it will be innovative like nothing seen before". We can rule out a Diablo MMO as thats a fantasy based MMO thats been done to death. My money is on a Starcraft MMO after seeing what they are putting into Starcraft 2 (lore, an entire galaxy with planets they you can read into the lore of and the races that populate it) - in short adding a story and world to SC.. simialr to what they did with Warcraft 3 prior to WoW. So right now If I could I would wager a dollar on a Starcraft MMO. but probably an RTS/MMO hybid.
False assumption I think.
Saying fantasy MMOs have been done to death is like saying fantasy novels have been done to death. Yet they still, after 50+ years, top the best seller lists... Shows a little of just how popular and enduring the fantasy genre is eh? The very reason devs choose fantasy as their medium is it's massive and almost universal fanbase.
What Blizzard *could* be suggesting is that their game *system* is innovative, which has, of course, nothing to do with genre.
So, lets not rule anything out yet.
It's so easy to confuse what you want to happen with what will happen.
I will take your dollar.
False assumption my boots,
Would WoW be the same if it did not have the story and characters of warcraft III and frozen throne behind it?
I say "no way!" Warcraft III was not just a new warcraft, it added characters, villains, a compelling story spanning many races... added a lot of elements and basically made the warcraft world a lot fuller with stuff.... just ready for a mmorpg.
Now what game is blizzard releaseing in couple years? Starcraft 2. And you honestly believe they are NOT setting up this to bis their success with WoW?
To me it seems a very good marketing strategy and I would bet that is exactly what they think as well.
Look: WoW was announced in 2001, 2 years after warcraft 3 was announced. clearly development on the two titles overlapped somehow as warcaft 3 was released 2002 and WoW was in development before 2001.
now, 2007, they announce Starcraft 2. It is common knowledge they are also developing a new MMO together with it.... What else could it be really? it is a perfect schedule.
2008: announce Starcraft Galaxies
2009: release SC2
2010: release SC2: expansion pack
2011: Release Starcraft galaxies.
done and done.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Its a similar situation as Peter Jackson is in. With Lord of the Rings he has likely made the best movie he will ever make, and now, all he can do is 2nd best movies, which must be a depressing situation, and my guess it its similar for Blizzard with whatever MMOs they will make. I am more interested in the general topic. Maybe the joke that Blizzard makes SWG 2 will come true, lol.
lulz. considering lord of the ring as a good movie is like to said that Gw Bush is in fact someone really smart.
anyway, this is evident that blizzard is working on annother mmo...
Its a similar situation as Peter Jackson is in. With Lord of the Rings he has likely made the best movie he will ever make, and now, all he can do is 2nd best movies, which must be a depressing situation, and my guess it its similar for Blizzard with whatever MMOs they will make. I am more interested in the general topic. Maybe the joke that Blizzard makes SWG 2 will come true, lol.
lulz. considering lord of the ring as a good movie is like to said that Gw Bush is in fact someone really smart.
anyway, this is evident that blizzard is working on annother mmo...
he didnt really say it was a good movie, he said it was the best movie Peter will ever make in his opinion... but ye since when is l2read a recuirement for picking a fight on mmorpg.com forums
They have never once made a single game that is innovative, unless having a polished product is considered innovative in this genre lol
Most likely if they do make a mmorts, it will just be a dumbed down shattered galaxy with better graphics and a different story and few bugs. Although i doubt the last bit, i don't know what game these other guys are playing but the burning crusade was full of bugs this isn't the same team that made wow and that is obvious with the endgame content, and lack of polish on the burning crusade.
I really doubt blizzard will repeat the success of wow with any game, no company will. WoW came at a time when there was 2 real mmos everquest and ultima, both were full of problems, wow comes along and its a polished game, it was fun as well, although that changed after battlegrounds were poorly added.
There was no real choice for those looking for a good mmo, so they went to wow. That will not happen again theres plenty of mmos now, and their innovative features aren't products that are actually playable on release and dumbed down so any idiot can play it. I am betting whatever blizzard make will just be an ultima clone, everquest clones have been done to death so they probably see a dumbed down ultima clone as a innovative product.
They have never once made a single game that is innovative, unless having a polished product is considered innovative in this genre lol
Most likely if they do make a mmorts, it will just be a dumbed down shattered galaxy with better graphics and a different story and few bugs. Although i doubt the last bit, i don't know what game these other guys are playing but the burning crusade was full of bugs this isn't the same team that made wow and that is obvious with the endgame content, and lack of polish on the burning crusade.
I really doubt blizzard will repeat the success of wow with any game, no company will. WoW came at a time when there was 2 real mmos everquest and ultima, both were full of problems, wow comes along and its a polished game, it was fun as well, although that changed after battlegrounds were poorly added.
There was no real choice for those looking for a good mmo, so they went to wow. That will not happen again theres plenty of mmos now, and their innovative features aren't products that are actually playable on release and dumbed down so any idiot can play it. I am betting whatever blizzard make will just be an ultima clone, everquest clones have been done to death so they probably see a dumbed down ultima clone as a innovative product.
Your hate for blizzard could power a small county for a year.
TBC was not 100% bug free on release (no mmo is bug free EVER) but there was nothing even close to game breaking on launch or now. As will all blizzard games. And I suggest you play TBC before commenting, cus comment like "full of bug" "not polished" suggest your just playing to the MMORPG elites to try and get into their exclusive club, and as we all know hating on wow and blizzard is the fast track to membership.
They have never once made a single game that is innovative, unless having a polished product is considered innovative in this genre lol
I think WC1 was innovative, I might even consider D1 innovative. Blizzard has made ONE mmorpg, you can't label their entire history on WoW.
Wacraft 1 had been done before in other rts games same as starcraft, diablo 1 i agree was innovative but it was a different team who made it, it also wasn't revolutionary i am sure there was other hack and slash dungeon crawlers out then, they were just terrible.
And lastly i played wow for 2 years and saw for myself how the game went from being the best mmo out, to being another everquest clone, with little polish, poorly thought out design decisions and changes to gameplay that are arguably based on a small minority of no lifers.
I really doubt they are going to miraculously change their ways, especially when you look at their latest expansion for wow that will improve on nothing, its just burning crusade with different models and siege weapons that will just be a click on weapon wait for building to blow up affair.
edit: to the guy above me i have 4 level 70s ( hunter, druid, bloodelf rogue, and a warrior also leveled up a warlock to 50 also a blood elf so i gave it a chance), the burning crusade was buggy at release the servers were just as instable as always, btw I don't hate blizzard i dont like the way they go about making games Its hardly hate, also all mmos aren't release with loads of bugs and instable servers look at lord of the rings was fine no bugs servers only went down for like an hour at the most.
They actually are making an MMO. One of my sister's friends went to a school called Full Sail. After he had graduated my sister said he got a job at blizzard. She gave me his AIM and I asked him about Full Sail, one of my questions was "Would I learn what I needed to make MMORPG's?" He responded "I would say so since I'am working on one." This was like a year ago, and you didn't hear it from me.
They already have a huge cash cow.. so why would the make another mmo?
If you are creative, you will understand. I am a drawer, and even if my drawing would make me uber rich, I would never stop drawing. Its a desire inside of you, if you are creative, and money, as strange as it sounds is only a byproduct. Same with games, most who make them love doing it. They love to make new games, and same for the guyz from Blizzard. I dont see whats so surprising in that. They create new games because its an inner necessity for them.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
They already have a huge cash cow.. so why would the make another mmo?
If you are creative, you will understand. I am a drawer, and even if my drawing would make me uber rich, I would never stop drawing. Its a desire inside of you, if you are creative, and money, as strange as it sounds is only a byproduct. Same with games, most who make them love doing it. They love to make new games, and same for the guyz from Blizzard. I dont see whats so surprising in that. They create new games because its an inner necessity for them.
Ye and also in any business you have to be one step ahead of the competition. If blizzard just lay back n relax until WoW is cancelled someone will make the next big game... that's not good business.
Ye and also in any business you have to be one step ahead of the competition. If blizzard just lay back n relax until WoW is cancelled someone will make the next big game... that's not good business.
Totally agree.... very excitied, wonder what new idea they have with this coming mmo, seeing that current, and gona release mmo really have nothing special.
Originally posted by ltlfishie true but noone.... i meen noone! considers world of warcraft a "next gen mmo" so why would they include that?
Because maybe they do consider WoW to be next gen in a sense that it's next gen from the EQ1 era. Right now WoW is at the forefront of the current generation of MMO's. They would also want to sell the position to any would be prospective employee so they would use words such as "next gen". If anything though IMHO they need more people to help develop and maintain WoW. Develop in the sense of adding more folks to the next expansion to come after Northrend which I am sure they are working on. As well they would new to add people to help develop bug fixing patches, roll out/develop new content patches and maintain the current game.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
I would be nice to see WoW do something similar to what EQ did with EQ2. Two separate teams working on different projects about the same IP. WoW2 or something where the focus is more on the faction conflict rather than the focus on killing dungeon bosses.
It is probably just to replace some older guys or they want a bigger, better team. And they are making Starcraft 2 which means no Diablo 3.
They have too much to give up to just start a new idea. Why would they do that when they can still make millions of more dollars with upgrades?
If they're just now hiring staff, the game itself won't be released for 4 or 5 more years. WoW isn't going to keep it's insanely high subscriber numbers into 2012, and Blizzard isn't going to stop making MMOs just because they got one massive hit. I'm not surprised at all to hear they're planning another MMO.
Exactly, the graphics are already getting a bit outdated... In another 2 years... WoW = oldskool
WoW's graphics were outdated at it's launch. Compare them to EQ2. You're right about them aging poorly though. As people upgrade their computers WoW's graphics cease to become a benefit and become a detriment.
It is probably just to replace some older guys or they want a bigger, better team. And they are making Starcraft 2 which means no Diablo 3.
They have too much to give up to just start a new idea. Why would they do that when they can still make millions of more dollars with upgrades?
If they're just now hiring staff, the game itself won't be released for 4 or 5 more years. WoW isn't going to keep it's insanely high subscriber numbers into 2012, and Blizzard isn't going to stop making MMOs just because they got one massive hit. I'm not surprised at all to hear they're planning another MMO.
Exactly, the graphics are already getting a bit outdated... In another 2 years... WoW = oldskool
WoW's graphics were outdated at it's launch. Compare them to EQ2. You're right about them aging poorly though. As people upgrade their computers WoW's graphics cease to become a benefit and become a detriment.
This does not preclude Blizzard from updating their graphics or graphic engine in the future. Blizzard's graphic engine believe it or not was designed to scale from where it is right now up to higher levels of graphic capabilities.
Of course Blizzard's game design philosophy in regards to graphics they put into any of their games has always been to be as efficient as possible and allow the art department to sell the graphics with their designs rather then pushing polygons and bump mapping everything on your screen just because they can.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
I am, however, quite sure Blizzards most difficult burden will be WOW itself. Its a record that will be VERY hard to top, and of course EVERYONE will compare the new MMO to WOW. The fans will expect another WOW, the haters will suspect it in the negative way, so its quite a burden. I guess Bliizard will not be able to repeat the great success of WOW. It was a very singular thing, hitting the right thing at the right time, which can not just be repeated anytime soon.
The thing with Blizz is...
1. Warcraft I - Success. 2. Warcraft II - Big success. 3. Diablo - great success. 4. Starcraft - even greater success. 5. Diablo II - huge success. 6. Warcraft 3 - again - even greater success. 7. W3 Frozen Throne - guess what 8. World of Warcraft - nine million of accounts speaks for itself.
So that very singular thing hitting the right thing at the right time has oddly sticked to Blizzard. You speak of luck. I speak of great amount of work and sacrifice put into products to polish all details to their very best.
Comments
agreed
Played almost everything...
Currently playing nothing...
Waiting for: Darkfall, WAR, Guild Wars 2.
I third that agreement. If Blizz does otherwise, they'l be M$ all over again
Check out the MUD I'm making!
agreed.
Played almost everything...
Currently playing nothing...
Waiting for: Darkfall, WAR, Guild Wars 2.
Oh. I am excited. Blizzard has made some great products: Warcraft III: Frozen Throne; Starcraft; Diablo; et al. Yes. I consider World of Warcraft a good product.
At least I know where all the money they made from WoW is going! It was smart not to put it into WoW with actually "good" expansions.
Warcraft 3 blows more than the wind on a stormy night or a nurse who
Starcraft is THE greatest RTS game of all time.
Warcraft 2 was amazing.
Diablo 2 is like WoW: somehow amazingly popular, but no one understands why because the game is boring after a week-month.
Saying fantasy MMOs have been done to death is like saying fantasy novels have been done to death. Yet they still, after 50+ years, top the best seller lists... Shows a little of just how popular and enduring the fantasy genre is eh? The very reason devs choose fantasy as their medium is it's massive and almost universal fanbase.
What Blizzard *could* be suggesting is that their game *system* is innovative, which has, of course, nothing to do with genre.
So, lets not rule anything out yet.
It's so easy to confuse what you want to happen with what will happen.
I will take your dollar.
False assumption my boots,Would WoW be the same if it did not have the story and characters of warcraft III and frozen throne behind it?
I say "no way!" Warcraft III was not just a new warcraft, it added characters, villains, a compelling story spanning many races... added a lot of elements and basically made the warcraft world a lot fuller with stuff.... just ready for a mmorpg.
Now what game is blizzard releaseing in couple years? Starcraft 2. And you honestly believe they are NOT setting up this to bis their success with WoW?
To me it seems a very good marketing strategy and I would bet that is exactly what they think as well.
Look: WoW was announced in 2001, 2 years after warcraft 3 was announced. clearly development on the two titles overlapped somehow as warcaft 3 was released 2002 and WoW was in development before 2001.
now, 2007, they announce Starcraft 2. It is common knowledge they are also developing a new MMO together with it.... What else could it be really? it is a perfect schedule.
2008: announce Starcraft Galaxies
2009: release SC2
2010: release SC2: expansion pack
2011: Release Starcraft galaxies.
done and done.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Looks like they're making a safety net for WoW's inevitable fallout.
THEY ARE BRINGING BACK COMPLETELY NEW EPISODES OF DRAGON BALL Z!
Here is proof:
I AM GOKU AND I AM BRINGING BACK NEW EPISODES SSJ3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
anyway, this is evident that blizzard is working on annother mmo...
anyway, this is evident that blizzard is working on annother mmo...
he didnt really say it was a good movie, he said it was the best movie Peter will ever make in his opinion... but ye since when is l2read a recuirement for picking a fight on mmorpg.com forums
This is Blizzard we are talking about right?
They have never once made a single game that is innovative, unless having a polished product is considered innovative in this genre lol
Most likely if they do make a mmorts, it will just be a dumbed down shattered galaxy with better graphics and a different story and few bugs. Although i doubt the last bit, i don't know what game these other guys are playing but the burning crusade was full of bugs this isn't the same team that made wow and that is obvious with the endgame content, and lack of polish on the burning crusade.
I really doubt blizzard will repeat the success of wow with any game, no company will. WoW came at a time when there was 2 real mmos everquest and ultima, both were full of problems, wow comes along and its a polished game, it was fun as well, although that changed after battlegrounds were poorly added.
There was no real choice for those looking for a good mmo, so they went to wow. That will not happen again theres plenty of mmos now, and their innovative features aren't products that are actually playable on release and dumbed down so any idiot can play it. I am betting whatever blizzard make will just be an ultima clone, everquest clones have been done to death so they probably see a dumbed down ultima clone as a innovative product.
This is Blizzard we are talking about right?
They have never once made a single game that is innovative, unless having a polished product is considered innovative in this genre lol
I think WC1 was innovative, I might even consider D1 innovative. Blizzard has made ONE mmorpg, you can't label their entire history on WoW.
This is Blizzard we are talking about right?
They have never once made a single game that is innovative, unless having a polished product is considered innovative in this genre lol
Most likely if they do make a mmorts, it will just be a dumbed down shattered galaxy with better graphics and a different story and few bugs. Although i doubt the last bit, i don't know what game these other guys are playing but the burning crusade was full of bugs this isn't the same team that made wow and that is obvious with the endgame content, and lack of polish on the burning crusade.
I really doubt blizzard will repeat the success of wow with any game, no company will. WoW came at a time when there was 2 real mmos everquest and ultima, both were full of problems, wow comes along and its a polished game, it was fun as well, although that changed after battlegrounds were poorly added.
There was no real choice for those looking for a good mmo, so they went to wow. That will not happen again theres plenty of mmos now, and their innovative features aren't products that are actually playable on release and dumbed down so any idiot can play it. I am betting whatever blizzard make will just be an ultima clone, everquest clones have been done to death so they probably see a dumbed down ultima clone as a innovative product.
Your hate for blizzard could power a small county for a year.TBC was not 100% bug free on release (no mmo is bug free EVER) but there was nothing even close to game breaking on launch or now. As will all blizzard games. And I suggest you play TBC before commenting, cus comment like "full of bug" "not polished" suggest your just playing to the MMORPG elites to try and get into their exclusive club, and as we all know hating on wow and blizzard is the fast track to membership.
This is Blizzard we are talking about right?
They have never once made a single game that is innovative, unless having a polished product is considered innovative in this genre lol
I think WC1 was innovative, I might even consider D1 innovative. Blizzard has made ONE mmorpg, you can't label their entire history on WoW.
Wacraft 1 had been done before in other rts games same as starcraft, diablo 1 i agree was innovative but it was a different team who made it, it also wasn't revolutionary i am sure there was other hack and slash dungeon crawlers out then, they were just terrible.
And lastly i played wow for 2 years and saw for myself how the game went from being the best mmo out, to being another everquest clone, with little polish, poorly thought out design decisions and changes to gameplay that are arguably based on a small minority of no lifers.
I really doubt they are going to miraculously change their ways, especially when you look at their latest expansion for wow that will improve on nothing, its just burning crusade with different models and siege weapons that will just be a click on weapon wait for building to blow up affair.
edit: to the guy above me i have 4 level 70s ( hunter, druid, bloodelf rogue, and a warrior also leveled up a warlock to 50 also a blood elf so i gave it a chance), the burning crusade was buggy at release the servers were just as instable as always, btw I don't hate blizzard i dont like the way they go about making games Its hardly hate, also all mmos aren't release with loads of bugs and instable servers look at lord of the rings was fine no bugs servers only went down for like an hour at the most.
and he couldn't be working on wow now could he.
If you are creative, you will understand. I am a drawer, and even if my drawing would make me uber rich, I would never stop drawing. Its a desire inside of you, if you are creative, and money, as strange as it sounds is only a byproduct. Same with games, most who make them love doing it. They love to make new games, and same for the guyz from Blizzard. I dont see whats so surprising in that. They create new games because its an inner necessity for them.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
If you are creative, you will understand. I am a drawer, and even if my drawing would make me uber rich, I would never stop drawing. Its a desire inside of you, if you are creative, and money, as strange as it sounds is only a byproduct. Same with games, most who make them love doing it. They love to make new games, and same for the guyz from Blizzard. I dont see whats so surprising in that. They create new games because its an inner necessity for them.
Ye and also in any business you have to be one step ahead of the competition. If blizzard just lay back n relax until WoW is cancelled someone will make the next big game... that's not good business.
Ye and also in any business you have to be one step ahead of the competition. If blizzard just lay back n relax until WoW is cancelled someone will make the next big game... that's not good business.
Totally agree.... very excitied, wonder what new idea they have with this coming mmo, seeing that current, and gona release mmo really have nothing special.
RIP Orc Choppa
Watch, it will be World of Starcraft FPSMMORPG.
Because maybe they do consider WoW to be next gen in a sense that it's next gen from the EQ1 era. Right now WoW is at the forefront of the current generation of MMO's. They would also want to sell the position to any would be prospective employee so they would use words such as "next gen". If anything though IMHO they need more people to help develop and maintain WoW. Develop in the sense of adding more folks to the next expansion to come after Northrend which I am sure they are working on. As well they would new to add people to help develop bug fixing patches, roll out/develop new content patches and maintain the current game.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
I would be nice to see WoW do something similar to what EQ did with EQ2. Two separate teams working on different projects about the same IP. WoW2 or something where the focus is more on the faction conflict rather than the focus on killing dungeon bosses.
If they're just now hiring staff, the game itself won't be released for 4 or 5 more years. WoW isn't going to keep it's insanely high subscriber numbers into 2012, and Blizzard isn't going to stop making MMOs just because they got one massive hit. I'm not surprised at all to hear they're planning another MMO.
Exactly, the graphics are already getting a bit outdated... In another 2 years... WoW = oldskool
WoW's graphics were outdated at it's launch. Compare them to EQ2. You're right about them aging poorly though. As people upgrade their computers WoW's graphics cease to become a benefit and become a detriment.
I'm not trilled by the news, but it's probably SoS (Systems of Starcraft - and yes, i think i'm the only one that came up with the name!!!
)
eqnext.wikia.com
This does not preclude Blizzard from updating their graphics or graphic engine in the future. Blizzard's graphic engine believe it or not was designed to scale from where it is right now up to higher levels of graphic capabilities.
Of course Blizzard's game design philosophy in regards to graphics they put into any of their games has always been to be as efficient as possible and allow the art department to sell the graphics with their designs rather then pushing polygons and bump mapping everything on your screen just because they can.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
1. Warcraft I - Success. 2. Warcraft II - Big success. 3. Diablo - great success. 4. Starcraft - even greater success. 5. Diablo II - huge success. 6. Warcraft 3 - again - even greater success. 7. W3 Frozen Throne - guess what
8. World of Warcraft - nine million of accounts speaks for itself.
So that very singular thing hitting the right thing at the right time has oddly sticked to Blizzard. You speak of luck. I speak of great amount of work and sacrifice put into products to polish all details to their very best.
That position has been posted on their site for quite some time now btw :P
Looking for something new.