So its created a sink hole; If you don't like WoW, your out of luck, because no one is trying to make quality games that don't adhere to the WoW formula. If you played WoW and got bored of it, your in the same boat; The only other options are games that play, look, and feel very much like WoW all over again
Whereas companies are following the WoW trend, I think there is also a maturing of both playerbase and market so I don't think WoW is all we currently have or will always have. In fact there are already MMO games which buck this trend. Eve online, AOC (shaping up to), COH/V ( emphasis on gameplay not item collection). Also outside of MMORPG ( remember other genres?) there is a move towards bastardized traditional elements with MMO elements. For example unlockables in battlefeild 2142. I think were not there yet but WoW isnt the end of MMORPG history, in fact graphical 3D MMORPG are a pretty new concept and in there infancy in many ways.
And..
As a warning to uninspired WoW ridden game developers, Just look at LOTRO. Its WoW mark two, its not as good as what WoW does and not as populus much to "the Turbines" dissapointment. Though it is there fault for making such a dead end move. If LOTRO isnt warning enough than part of Vanguards (gulp) downfall was its chasing the WoW crowd. Not a chance but stupidly sigil tried. Of course VG was so badly managed and designed that it was doomed from the onset.
That said can you tell I'm not a WoW fan. reached level 40 something and realised that getting rank I Fireball, rank II fireball, rank III fireball isnt that exc iting, the world is static and the playerbase are pretty easily pleased with a dumbed down watered game in race for end game and item grinding.
In the end WoW isnt for everyone but is for a lot people. Sorry to sound elitist but a year of playing WoW is an eye opener to the idea that popular culture isnt necessary great. There are other markets and life beyond WoW, but it does have to be "beyond WoW" not just a clone.
Every so often someone says that WoW is less challenging than other MMORPGs, but when drawn into a debate as to why, they're completely unable to explain themselves, and usually end up ignoring my excellent arguments to the contrary and insulting me. And they're usually just getting the word challenge mixed up with the phrase "time consumed".
In an MMORPG the only challenge is the time it takes to complete a goal. Sorry but there are no other challenges. They are static games with static encounters. The encounters are not challenging because they are scripted.
Things that were challenging. Figuring out the spell system in Asheron's Call 1. You had to figure out the tapers that were used in order to cast a spell. You could only do this by trial and error (until splitpea a program that did it for you was later made by a player).
Another example from AC1 was a dungeon that required 1 group of low level characters to complete portions of the dungeon to open doors for another group of high level players in a different part of the dungeon. That has some challenge to figuring it out. Just like the Fire dungeon required you to be able to time your jumps correctly as too not fall to your death.
The thing is that World of Warcraft is less challenging and it is proven by the fact that more people are completing the supposed difficult tasks in an MMO game. For instance:
1. Getting to the max level - this used to be one of the most difficult challenges in a MMO game. WoW makes it super easy.
2. Completing end game content - Raiding was another challenge of certain MMO games (namely EQ1) where very few got that equipment or ever saw those mobs. The ones who made max level but did not raid made do with lesser equipment. That was just the way it was. But not in WoW endgame content in WoW is extremely easy to complete. In Asheron's call they would unleash Dev controlled super mobs to attack the towns. Or other monthly random events that would actually challenge their players. But in WoW we got a dungeon that would be the same now as it was last year. The mobs all act the same. The boss fights are always the same.
3. Community Interaction - this was a challenge in earlier games as well. If you acted like an idiot then you were screwed. The community would cast you out. You would have to reroll and try to get it right this time. Now with AH mules pulling scams, Ninja Looters and raid leaders who can screw their guilds over and then just transfer to a new server for a fresh start it means nothing. After I quit I heard that my old raid leaders (the co GMs) disolved the guild, stole the guild bank, transferred to another server and used the guild bank to buy their way into some large raid guild. It is pathetic. Combine those type of actions with all of the global Chats that are used to talk about Chuck Norris jokes and the game comes across as a joke.
4. PVP - so no full loot. I agree with that. Full loot was a bad game design in my opinion. But Battlegrounds that are a grind for "uber" pvp gear? They do not have any lasting effect on the game at all. In Asheron's call you would find towns that were off limits if you weren't a friend of the guild in charge. People would fight over hunting spots. Which is what used to happen when WoW first released as well. I remember trying to fight in Burning Steppes or Western Plaguelands when the game was still new and there was a lot of PVP action in the World. Now the game has none.
These are just a few of the examples why WoW is "easier" then other MMO games were.
In short, WoW haters don't hate WoW, they just went through the game cycle and don't realize it.
Why You call them WoW haters? Why not call them Lotro haters? Why You don't You call them people who hate certain types of mmorpgs?
What I'm trying to say, that people hate certain type of mmorpgs for they own reasons. So who has the real issue, other people who are hating WoW or You because they hate something what You like?
Anyway, I think You are right, it's not just WoW. How ever, You made it to WoW issue or trying to say it's not WoW issue, why is that important to You?
Yes, I've finally solved it. Like all games in this world, WoW will keep our interest for a certain period of time, then we will eventually become bored of it and move on. This is what has happened to WoW haters. They played the game for, say, 6 months - 2 years and got sick and tired of it, and they moved on. However, after this period of time, they seem to think the game sucks because they got bored of it, and they ignore the fact it held their interest for quite a long time. In short, WoW haters don't hate WoW, they just went through the game cycle and don't realize it.
Let me ask you this. Basically the entire group of "bored teeners too. What are the true, actually numbers that verify "so many people "hate" WoW? Good grief, really who gives a bucket of spit whether you are any other "bored teenager" hates this game. Go play cribbage and bridge.
All I want is the truth Just gimme some truth John Lennon
people hate it because it's a well made game... But after playing it for 20 levels it starts to sink in that it's just and endless grind fest centered entirely around gear whoring.
There is nothing to do besides leveling and getting gear, and for what reason? When you have the best gear you're fucked, game over, you won, next game please.
People hate WoW, or any game simply because they feel every game should be catered to their needs. They forget other people may expect something else out of a game, and take it personally when a developer adds features that don't match their playing style.
Yes, I've finally solved it. Like all games in this world, WoW will keep our interest for a certain period of time, then we will eventually become bored of it and move on. This is what has happened to WoW haters. They played the game for, say, 6 months - 2 years and got sick and tired of it, and they moved on. However, after this period of time, they seem to think the game sucks because they got bored of it, and they ignore the fact it held their interest for quite a long time. In short, WoW haters don't hate WoW, they just went through the game cycle and don't realize it.
I'm sorry I didnt get in on this sooner. The things your talking about are symptoms not causes. The reason that peple burnout on WoW is because in order to keep in game inflation under control, the developers chose to control virtually every aspect of the economy. This limits the imersiveness and diversity in the game. Add to that that PvP is driven by the need for self improvment and nothing beyond that and what you have is a play for 1-2 years (if you can stand it that long) kinda game.
Hand it to Blizzard, they have perfected an otherwise bad idea and sold 8+ million poeple on it. Like um or hate um, got to hand it to them.
I dislike the game because its mediocre, plain and simple. Theres nothing new or revolutionary about it, it takes tried and true elements and although it does a very good job in presentation, the fact remains that at the basic levels, WoW is a more casual version of EQ 1 with better graphics, so in my book that makes it mediocre. Thats why i dislike it, why i hate it is something completely diffrent..
I hate it because of the marketing, and the fall out it has caused in the genre as a whole; WoW proved that with enough marketing, hype, and presentation, a company could make a ton of money without really making anything new, just polishing off old ideas. My real problem with WoW is that it has been so successfull without really innovating, that its put the entire genre in a ditch for the past several years.
There was a time when every MMO tried something new; Some were gimmicky, yes, but they were always trying to find ways to set themselves apart from each other because the client base was alot smaller; WoW changed everything, and now it seems like EVERYONE else is fallowing suit. I can stroll down to the local software store now, and there are perhaps one or two titles that actually strive for something diffrent, then a whole barrage of games that look an awful lot like WoW but arn't (aka clones).
So its created a sink hole; If you don't like WoW, your out of luck, because no one is trying to make quality games that don't adhere to the WoW formula. If you played WoW and got bored of it, your in the same boat; The only other options are games that play, look, and feel very much like WoW all over again. PC already lost alot of genre's because of MMO's in general; Adventure games and space flight shooters are long gone, all the PC has now are FPS games and MMO's, and consoles are starting to take the FPS throne away as we speak. All we have left are MMO's, and WoW really set back and progress for years. You won't understand unless you were playing PC games back in the mid to late 90's, when there were so many diffrent pc games on the shelf you didn't know what to buy, where the PC section of best buy was just as large as the console section. Now the PC section is nearly non-existant, a couple 8 foot sections, half of the games are MMO's, most of which are WoW or its clones. Its a chain of events thats really set into motion a sad state for PC gaming as a whole, and with microsofts vista stunt, PC gaming might become nothing more than a novelty, particularly if MMO's find their way to consoles.
PC always had the most potential of any plateform, but games like WoW are why its becoming nothing more than a business machine now; WoW might be fun for now, but what happens when your done with it? Buy another version of WoW with a diffrent name and graphics?
Well said. New developers seem to be so enthralled by the success of WoW they are unwilling to try something new. I understand it is a business and needs to make money, so I don't fault them really, but I would like to try something new and innovative.
As much as I dislike WoW (just not my thing) it does show just how much people were sick of games, no matter how innovative, that had poor execution, buggy gameplay and unstable servers. I played WoW for a few months in beta and at release and while I didn't like the gameplay I did like the stability and smooth perfomace particularly after struggeling through some seriously horrid launches.
Added features? As in inovation? What has WoW added tot he genre that wasn't already there? Perhaps some of the real time info about auctions, but that was added simply to prevent inflation by giving players lots of information.....
I have never played WoW before but i dont like it because you have to buy it and also pay mouthly fees for it that is wat makes it crap in my opinion.
Welcome to the wonderful world of capitalism wherein you exchange money for goods and services. I know its a new concept and hard to grasp for hippies and children but you'll just have to get used to it. The communist revolution died long ago.
I think that the "hardcore" MMO players hate WoW because it is succesful and it is simplistic.
They're right about one thing...WoW will have a negative impact on MMO innovation, because MMOs are like movies...why do something innovative and take a chance on making money when you can do something derivative and be assured of making money.
WoW has set a standard with its financial success that the moneymen who finance MMO projects cannot resist.
So MMOs are going to be more like WoW, which is essentially a distilation of all that thas happened with 2nd gen MMOs.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
WoW kept my interest for less then 6 months... on the other hand other MMORPG's like Asherons Call for example , kept my interest for like 3 years. Wow is crap built for idiots. Why do you think it has so many players? Because theres so many lazy , mindless fools in this world.
Why do you think AC was the least played of the big 3 and most critics found it boring? Because it sucked, plain and simple. The reason you played a single MMO for 3 years is because you are in the extreme minority and most people quit playing in around 6 months, just like you did;) WOW has millions of players and is critically acclaimed from EVERY source because its a great game, not because people are mindless idiots. But you can go on beleiving that, steaming in your bitterness.
The fact is, there are more SERIOUS veteran MMO gamers still playing WOW than many MMOs combined at their peak. Besides, AC was probably your 1st serious MMO. If WOW is a 1st for a whole bunch of people, why are they any different than you? If AC is great, all the people quiting WOW would go play AC, UO, EQ and every other MMO out there....but they're not.
Do you honestly think that WoW would have as many people playing it if it did not receive "Game of the Year"? If I were making an MMORPG, I would "convince" those that review my game and decide on the "Game of the Year" award that my game is worthy. I'm not saying Blizzard did this, but I wouldn't put it past them either. I'm not fond of WoW, nor do I hate it, but I do know that before it got that award, you could find it on the shelves in stores. The day it was labeled with "Game of the Year" on the box, it flew off of the shelves and was sold out.
Do you honestly think that WoW would have as many people playing it if it did not receive "Game of the Year"? If I were making an MMORPG, I would "convince" those that review my game and decide on the "Game of the Year" award that my game is worthy. I'm not saying Blizzard did this, but I wouldn't put it past them either. I'm not fond of WoW, nor do I hate it, but I do know that before it got that award, you could find it on the shelves in stores. The day it was labeled with "Game of the Year" on the box, it flew off of the shelves and was sold out.
Well, "Game of the Year" combined with lots of buzz will help you sell units at Wal-Mart and Target to people who have never played computer games before, much less people who have never played an MMO.
Lucas Arts has been selling bantha poodoo in a box labeled "Star Wars" for years now.
So marketing has some impact, sure.
The thing is, the audience here, at MMORPG.COM, is not that audience for the most part.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Added features? As in inovation? What has WoW added tot he genre that wasn't already there? Perhaps some of the real time info about auctions, but that was added simply to prevent inflation by giving players lots of information.....
Solid gameplay enjoyed by millions across the globe. Thats new!
Mail system wasn't tried in other MMOs I don't beleive.
Being able to level simply by story driven quests, never having to camp mob spawns in the same spot for days just to see an EXP bar slowely creep across the screen.
Balanced classes from day 1...compared to other MMOs.
Being able to solo to max level in a fun way...yes you could technically solo in others, but it was horrible.
A map that opens up as you explore. Fog of War effect. Can't confirm, but don't recall any major MMOs doing it.
Warrior charge and intercept abilities.
More abilities per class than any other MMO.
More quests than any other MMO.
More unique mounts than any other MMO.
But in the end, WHO THE HELL CARES=) All that matters is that WOW was more fun to play than every other MMO for the vast majority of people. Did you not play God of War because it had a guy with blades that kills bosses and collects floating balls that replenish energy, ect. Did you not play HalfLife2, because it was just another FPS with guns? You played them becasue they ADDED to the genre by taking things we liked and made them better with a few new twists.
Thats WOW. Its got a whole lot of things we love, removed a whole lot of crap we hated and made it all better. Its an evolution of the genre, not a revolution. How deep does the betterness have to go to understand that people don't give a crap how innovative a game is if it sucks. People want games that work out of the box. Blizzard did that FIRST!!! No MMO was as full featured as WOW right out of the gate. NONE of them. They took years to become solid and playable. Blizzard did it instantly.
It doesn't matter what you think. It only matters what 9 million happy people think and they have every professional critic and the numbers backing them up. Deal with it and move on. WOW is a great MMO. Its sad how pathetic people become just to appear cool, by hating popular games and bashing the people who enjoy them. Not you personally, but the vast majority of idiots at MMORPG.com/
Ah! but the jokes aren't really about the game, they're about the people playing the game. If the people playing WoW are exactly like the people that played EQ, what does that tell you about these two games?
The players aren't exactly alike. They have some things in common - that doesn't make them identical. As I pointed out, being able to make the same joke about two different things does not make the two things identical. A pizza isn't a cheeseburger, and (with some exceptions) Everquest players are not World of Warcraft players.
Really? Explain to me how the catasses that obsessed over EQ are different than those that current inhabit WoW. The games are close enough together that they motivate the players in the same way and attract the same personality types. Of course, most MMORPGs do this but that just proves that WoW is not different enough from the rest of the genre to be hated for anything other than its popularity.
The games aren't identical, either. If WoW and EQ were identical, I'd be playing EQ right now, instead of WoW. I certainly like the EQ players more, but I like the gameplay of WoW better (of course, that would be completely impossible if the games and the players were identical). Or do you think I only play World of Warcraft because Everquest is more popular? What about people who hate Everquest? If it's identical to WoW, do they only hate it because it's less popular?
So they aren't identical twins, so what? And please enlighten me as to how the gameplay in WoW differs from EQ. You wander around in third person. You click on enemies to begin autoattacking. You spam buttons for special attacks. You accept fetch and kill quests from NPCs. You raid. Um... yeah... the game play is COMPLETELY different
You're making some enormous leaps of logic to get from "the same jokes can be told about EQ players as well as WoW players" all the way to the obviously untrue "therefore, EQ and WoW are identical. Anyone who has played them both can tell you how they differ from each other. Those differences are enough to explain why some people prefer one game over the other.
I've played both and the differences are largely cosmetic. WoW shortens the level grind, adds a ton more meaningless quests, and marks both quest vendors and objectives clearly. Other than that, they might as well be the same damn game. Why can't you just admit that people only hate this game because it's popular? Pop culture is filled with popular things of average quality that generally became hated in a very short time. Why can't WoW also fall into this catagory?
Oh yeah! Because that would be admitting that the entire genre sucks just as bad, if not worse.
People want games that work out of the box. Blizzard did that FIRST!!!
Actually, DAoC was the first MMO to have a flawless launch. WoW actually had several problems due to the fact that they underestimated the server load so most people weren't able to play the game due to all the full servers. Just an FYI....
quoted from freakomar, "How about the "WAR is ripping off WoW" post? Most of them have NO IDEA how long Warhammer has been around, like them saying "WAR is cheating the orcs and goblins from WoW"
OH MY GOD. Warhammer has been there for like decades, maybe 2 I guess, but w/e. You get my point.
Maybe you dont, but majority do."
What exactly are you saying? That WoW is coping Warhammer? Cause if that's so, then you don't realize even if WoW was copying Warhammer, Warhammer was copying something before it, and that thing before it was most likely copying something else. There are rarely unique ideas anymore.
Also, people mention bad p2p? Person2Person? It probably is one of the best community based games I have ever played, and if you meant pvp, then what? It has excellent pvp options? Choose the server that best suits you.
People need to post more clearly what they are saying.
quoted from freakomar, "How about the "WAR is ripping off WoW" post? Most of them have NO IDEA how long Warhammer has been around, like them saying "WAR is cheating the orcs and goblins from WoW"
OH MY GOD. Warhammer has been there for like decades, maybe 2 I guess, but w/e. You get my point. Maybe you dont, but majority do." What exactly are you saying? That WoW is coping Warhammer? Cause if that's so, then you don't realize even if WoW was copying Warhammer, Warhammer was copying something before it, and that thing before it was most likely copying something else. There are rarely unique ideas anymore. Also, people mention bad p2p? Person2Person? It probably is one of the best community based games I have ever played, and if you meant pvp, then what? It has excellent pvp options? Choose the server that best suits you. People need to post more clearly what they are saying.
Blizzard copied the artistic style of Warhammer Table top games. Plus I can't think of another game that had Orks with the same type of lore as Warhammer. They definitely didn't copy the more traditional Tolkienish theme. They created something new and different which Blizzard even borrowed from as well.
All in all Blizzard borrowed very heavily from Warhammer when designing the first Warcraft game.
I read all the posts in this thread.... it seems some people are actually worried others are complaining and others are just defending Wow..
I mean I'm 17 yeas old i've only been playing MMORPG's for 7 years so i may not know as much as most veterans but i mean i kno enought to almost be...and from what i've seen i agree with alot of people who say Wow is easy and boring and yet u guys play it.. ALL MMORPG's bring something new within them. for example.
Final fantasy XI- The Storyline was the BEST in any game i mean what game has a storyline none from what i know it also forced many to become friends seeing as in order to lvl u had too.
UO- THE ORIGINAL GRANDAD OF ALL MMORPGS set the stage point for WOW and what not in truth with a lil updated graphics it could rule.
there are many other games i'd like to mention for originality but it'd take too long. Truth is tho, The real reason Games won't change is because...Most MMORPG players are lazy and want stuff done for them. The new age Mmorpg players are coming in and the Vets are leaving.. WOW or any other Mmorpg game isn't focusing on the old schoolers anymore.. which i think is truly sad... but their focusing on the new up and coming players the one most people think as 5 year olds the spammers and the retarded folk as i like to call them.
It's sad but what can u do? Deal with it from the time being most of u will continue playing these games becuz of your love for Mmorpgs i know i will.
People want a game that can hold it's interests for years to come,, 1 day 1 will be made. Till that time just wait.
lol hate is a stupid ideal you are trying to bring to the discussion.
And another thing. You say you are 17 years old and have been playing mmo's for 7 years.
Do you really believe that I'm going think im going to respect that? Hey I've been driving a car longer than you have been playing with your lil willy. does that mean I'm a better driver? well yes, it does, but that's a different topic.
you see, sir gamer topic master, we have all seen your type of post a trillion times. In fact, I'm sure I've read your post 14 years ago when your mommy was feeding you mushed carrots and apples from a lil glass jar.
in the end. people don't hate wow. they hate you.
oh. and btw, i tried to like wow on 3 trial accounts and i didn't like the cartoony characters and graphics.
eat more fruity pebbles my freind, you will grow up strong and get that +8645 sword of death that will bring your respect.
Yes, I've finally solved it. Like all games in this world, WoW will keep our interest for a certain period of time, then we will eventually become bored of it and move on. This is what has happened to WoW haters. They played the game for, say, 6 months - 2 years and got sick and tired of it, and they moved on. However, after this period of time, they seem to think the game sucks because they got bored of it, and they ignore the fact it held their interest for quite a long time. In short, WoW haters don't hate WoW, they just went through the game cycle and don't realize it.
Well I must admit it's true. I "hated" WoW, but I was just trying to find something else. So this thread speaks the truth. I'm still playing it now however, because I went on a short little journey through the internet to find MMORPGs to entertain myself on until Warhammer.
No luck. No MMORPG out right now can top Blizzard's revolution on the online gaming world. I have a lot of complaints and disagreements about the game, but there's no denying it being an excellent game.
Comments
Whereas companies are following the WoW trend, I think there is also a maturing of both playerbase and market so I don't think WoW is all we currently have or will always have. In fact there are already MMO games which buck this trend. Eve online, AOC (shaping up to), COH/V ( emphasis on gameplay not item collection). Also outside of MMORPG ( remember other genres?) there is a move towards bastardized traditional elements with MMO elements. For example unlockables in battlefeild 2142. I think were not there yet but WoW isnt the end of MMORPG history, in fact graphical 3D MMORPG are a pretty new concept and in there infancy in many ways.
And..
As a warning to uninspired WoW ridden game developers, Just look at LOTRO. Its WoW mark two, its not as good as what WoW does and not as populus much to "the Turbines" dissapointment. Though it is there fault for making such a dead end move. If LOTRO isnt warning enough than part of Vanguards (gulp) downfall was its chasing the WoW crowd. Not a chance but stupidly sigil tried. Of course VG was so badly managed and designed that it was doomed from the onset.
That said can you tell I'm not a WoW fan. reached level 40 something and realised that getting rank I Fireball, rank II fireball, rank III fireball isnt that exc iting, the world is static and the playerbase are pretty easily pleased with a dumbed down watered game in race for end game and item grinding.
In the end WoW isnt for everyone but is for a lot people. Sorry to sound elitist but a year of playing WoW is an eye opener to the idea that popular culture isnt necessary great. There are other markets and life beyond WoW, but it does have to be "beyond WoW" not just a clone.
Things that were challenging. Figuring out the spell system in Asheron's Call 1. You had to figure out the tapers that were used in order to cast a spell. You could only do this by trial and error (until splitpea a program that did it for you was later made by a player).
Another example from AC1 was a dungeon that required 1 group of low level characters to complete portions of the dungeon to open doors for another group of high level players in a different part of the dungeon. That has some challenge to figuring it out. Just like the Fire dungeon required you to be able to time your jumps correctly as too not fall to your death.
The thing is that World of Warcraft is less challenging and it is proven by the fact that more people are completing the supposed difficult tasks in an MMO game. For instance:
1. Getting to the max level - this used to be one of the most difficult challenges in a MMO game. WoW makes it super easy.
2. Completing end game content - Raiding was another challenge of certain MMO games (namely EQ1) where very few got that equipment or ever saw those mobs. The ones who made max level but did not raid made do with lesser equipment. That was just the way it was. But not in WoW endgame content in WoW is extremely easy to complete. In Asheron's call they would unleash Dev controlled super mobs to attack the towns. Or other monthly random events that would actually challenge their players. But in WoW we got a dungeon that would be the same now as it was last year. The mobs all act the same. The boss fights are always the same.
3. Community Interaction - this was a challenge in earlier games as well. If you acted like an idiot then you were screwed. The community would cast you out. You would have to reroll and try to get it right this time. Now with AH mules pulling scams, Ninja Looters and raid leaders who can screw their guilds over and then just transfer to a new server for a fresh start it means nothing. After I quit I heard that my old raid leaders (the co GMs) disolved the guild, stole the guild bank, transferred to another server and used the guild bank to buy their way into some large raid guild. It is pathetic. Combine those type of actions with all of the global Chats that are used to talk about Chuck Norris jokes and the game comes across as a joke.
4. PVP - so no full loot. I agree with that. Full loot was a bad game design in my opinion. But Battlegrounds that are a grind for "uber" pvp gear? They do not have any lasting effect on the game at all. In Asheron's call you would find towns that were off limits if you weren't a friend of the guild in charge. People would fight over hunting spots. Which is what used to happen when WoW first released as well. I remember trying to fight in Burning Steppes or Western Plaguelands when the game was still new and there was a lot of PVP action in the World. Now the game has none.
These are just a few of the examples why WoW is "easier" then other MMO games were.
War Beta Tester
Why You call them WoW haters? Why not call them Lotro haters? Why You don't You call them people who hate certain types of mmorpgs?
What I'm trying to say, that people hate certain type of mmorpgs for they own reasons. So who has the real issue, other people who are hating WoW or You because they hate something what You like?
Anyway, I think You are right, it's not just WoW. How ever, You made it to WoW issue or trying to say it's not WoW issue, why is that important to You?
MMORPG.COM has worst forum editor ever exists
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
There is nothing to do besides leveling and getting gear, and for what reason? When you have the best gear you're fucked, game over, you won, next game please.
People hate WoW, or any game simply because they feel every game should be catered to their needs. They forget other people may expect something else out of a game, and take it personally when a developer adds features that don't match their playing style.
Hand it to Blizzard, they have perfected an otherwise bad idea and sold 8+ million poeple on it. Like um or hate um, got to hand it to them.
Presentation for new MMORPG economics concept http://www.slideshare.net/talin/mmo-economics-concept-v-10
As much as I dislike WoW (just not my thing) it does show just how much people were sick of games, no matter how innovative, that had poor execution, buggy gameplay and unstable servers. I played WoW for a few months in beta and at release and while I didn't like the gameplay I did like the stability and smooth perfomace particularly after struggeling through some seriously horrid launches.
Added features? As in inovation? What has WoW added tot he genre that wasn't already there? Perhaps some of the real time info about auctions, but that was added simply to prevent inflation by giving players lots of information.....
Presentation for new MMORPG economics concept http://www.slideshare.net/talin/mmo-economics-concept-v-10
I have never played WoW before but i dont like it because you have to buy it and also pay mouthly fees for it that is wat makes it crap in my opinion.
Welcome to the wonderful world of capitalism wherein you exchange money for goods and services. I know its a new concept and hard to grasp for hippies and children but you'll just have to get used to it. The communist revolution died long ago.
I think that the "hardcore" MMO players hate WoW because it is succesful and it is simplistic.
They're right about one thing...WoW will have a negative impact on MMO innovation, because MMOs are like movies...why do something innovative and take a chance on making money when you can do something derivative and be assured of making money.
WoW has set a standard with its financial success that the moneymen who finance MMO projects cannot resist.
So MMOs are going to be more like WoW, which is essentially a distilation of all that thas happened with 2nd gen MMOs.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
The fact is, there are more SERIOUS veteran MMO gamers still playing WOW than many MMOs combined at their peak. Besides, AC was probably your 1st serious MMO. If WOW is a 1st for a whole bunch of people, why are they any different than you? If AC is great, all the people quiting WOW would go play AC, UO, EQ and every other MMO out there....but they're not.
Bitter gamers are funny
Do you honestly think that WoW would have as many people playing it if it did not receive "Game of the Year"? If I were making an MMORPG, I would "convince" those that review my game and decide on the "Game of the Year" award that my game is worthy. I'm not saying Blizzard did this, but I wouldn't put it past them either. I'm not fond of WoW, nor do I hate it, but I do know that before it got that award, you could find it on the shelves in stores. The day it was labeled with "Game of the Year" on the box, it flew off of the shelves and was sold out.
Lucas Arts has been selling bantha poodoo in a box labeled "Star Wars" for years now.
So marketing has some impact, sure.
The thing is, the audience here, at MMORPG.COM, is not that audience for the most part.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Solid gameplay enjoyed by millions across the globe. Thats new!
Mail system wasn't tried in other MMOs I don't beleive.
Being able to level simply by story driven quests, never having to camp mob spawns in the same spot for days just to see an EXP bar slowely creep across the screen.
Balanced classes from day 1...compared to other MMOs.
Being able to solo to max level in a fun way...yes you could technically solo in others, but it was horrible.
A map that opens up as you explore. Fog of War effect. Can't confirm, but don't recall any major MMOs doing it.
Warrior charge and intercept abilities.
More abilities per class than any other MMO.
More quests than any other MMO.
More unique mounts than any other MMO.
But in the end, WHO THE HELL CARES=) All that matters is that WOW was more fun to play than every other MMO for the vast majority of people. Did you not play God of War because it had a guy with blades that kills bosses and collects floating balls that replenish energy, ect. Did you not play HalfLife2, because it was just another FPS with guns? You played them becasue they ADDED to the genre by taking things we liked and made them better with a few new twists.
Thats WOW. Its got a whole lot of things we love, removed a whole lot of crap we hated and made it all better. Its an evolution of the genre, not a revolution. How deep does the betterness have to go to understand that people don't give a crap how innovative a game is if it sucks. People want games that work out of the box. Blizzard did that FIRST!!! No MMO was as full featured as WOW right out of the gate. NONE of them. They took years to become solid and playable. Blizzard did it instantly.
It doesn't matter what you think. It only matters what 9 million happy people think and they have every professional critic and the numbers backing them up. Deal with it and move on. WOW is a great MMO. Its sad how pathetic people become just to appear cool, by hating popular games and bashing the people who enjoy them. Not you personally, but the vast majority of idiots at MMORPG.com/
Really? Explain to me how the catasses that obsessed over EQ are different than those that current inhabit WoW. The games are close enough together that they motivate the players in the same way and attract the same personality types. Of course, most MMORPGs do this but that just proves that WoW is not different enough from the rest of the genre to be hated for anything other than its popularity.
The games aren't identical, either. If WoW and EQ were identical, I'd be playing EQ right now, instead of WoW. I certainly like the EQ players more, but I like the gameplay of WoW better (of course, that would be completely impossible if the games and the players were identical). Or do you think I only play World of Warcraft because Everquest is more popular? What about people who hate Everquest? If it's identical to WoW, do they only hate it because it's less popular?
So they aren't identical twins, so what? And please enlighten me as to how the gameplay in WoW differs from EQ. You wander around in third person. You click on enemies to begin autoattacking. You spam buttons for special attacks. You accept fetch and kill quests from NPCs. You raid. Um... yeah... the game play is COMPLETELY different
You're making some enormous leaps of logic to get from "the same jokes can be told about EQ players as well as WoW players" all the way to the obviously untrue "therefore, EQ and WoW are identical. Anyone who has played them both can tell you how they differ from each other. Those differences are enough to explain why some people prefer one game over the other.
I've played both and the differences are largely cosmetic. WoW shortens the level grind, adds a ton more meaningless quests, and marks both quest vendors and objectives clearly. Other than that, they might as well be the same damn game. Why can't you just admit that people only hate this game because it's popular? Pop culture is filled with popular things of average quality that generally became hated in a very short time. Why can't WoW also fall into this catagory?
Oh yeah! Because that would be admitting that the entire genre sucks just as bad, if not worse.
People want games that work out of the box. Blizzard did that FIRST!!!
Actually, DAoC was the first MMO to have a flawless launch. WoW actually had several problems due to the fact that they underestimated the server load so most people weren't able to play the game due to all the full servers. Just an FYI....
quoted from freakomar, "How about the "WAR is ripping off WoW" post? Most of them have NO IDEA how long Warhammer has been around, like them saying "WAR is cheating the orcs and goblins from WoW"
OH MY GOD. Warhammer has been there for like decades, maybe 2 I guess, but w/e. You get my point.
Maybe you dont, but majority do."
What exactly are you saying? That WoW is coping Warhammer? Cause if that's so, then you don't realize even if WoW was copying Warhammer, Warhammer was copying something before it, and that thing before it was most likely copying something else. There are rarely unique ideas anymore.
Also, people mention bad p2p? Person2Person? It probably is one of the best community based games I have ever played, and if you meant pvp, then what? It has excellent pvp options? Choose the server that best suits you.
People need to post more clearly what they are saying.
All in all Blizzard borrowed very heavily from Warhammer when designing the first Warcraft game.
War Beta Tester
I can answer the reason I hate WoW.
I can't PK anybody, anywhere.
I read all the posts in this thread.... it seems some people are actually worried others are complaining and others are just defending Wow..
I mean I'm 17 yeas old i've only been playing MMORPG's for 7 years so i may not know as much as most veterans but i mean i kno enought to almost be...and from what i've seen i agree with alot of people who say Wow is easy and boring and yet u guys play it.. ALL MMORPG's bring something new within them. for example.
Final fantasy XI- The Storyline was the BEST in any game i mean what game has a storyline none from what i know it also forced many to become friends seeing as in order to lvl u had too.
UO- THE ORIGINAL GRANDAD OF ALL MMORPGS set the stage point for WOW and what not in truth with a lil updated graphics it could rule.
there are many other games i'd like to mention for originality but it'd take too long. Truth is tho, The real reason Games won't change is because...Most MMORPG players are lazy and want stuff done for them. The new age Mmorpg players are coming in and the Vets are leaving.. WOW or any other Mmorpg game isn't focusing on the old schoolers anymore.. which i think is truly sad... but their focusing on the new up and coming players the one most people think as 5 year olds the spammers and the retarded folk as i like to call them.
It's sad but what can u do? Deal with it from the time being most of u will continue playing these games becuz of your love for Mmorpgs i know i will.
People want a game that can hold it's interests for years to come,, 1 day 1 will be made. Till that time just wait.
Hate is such a strong word.
And another thing. You say you are 17 years old and have been playing mmo's for 7 years.
Do you really believe that I'm going think im going to respect that? Hey I've been driving a car longer than you have been playing with your lil willy. does that mean I'm a better driver? well yes, it does, but that's a different topic.
you see, sir gamer topic master, we have all seen your type of post a trillion times. In fact, I'm sure I've read your post 14 years ago when your mommy was feeding you mushed carrots and apples from a lil glass jar.
in the end. people don't hate wow. they hate you.
oh. and btw, i tried to like wow on 3 trial accounts and i didn't like the cartoony characters and graphics.
eat more fruity pebbles my freind, you will grow up strong and get that +8645 sword of death that will bring your respect.
Well I must admit it's true. I "hated" WoW, but I was just trying to find something else. So this thread speaks the truth. I'm still playing it now however, because I went on a short little journey through the internet to find MMORPGs to entertain myself on until Warhammer.
No luck. No MMORPG out right now can top Blizzard's revolution on the online gaming world. I have a lot of complaints and disagreements about the game, but there's no denying it being an excellent game.