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A Word about Nationalism
Grym
Member UncommonPosts: 301
Hello Fellow Gamers,
I've noticed a disturbing trend on this site concerning National Pride and attacks on particular nations in general. I would like to share some personal information which, I believe, makes me somewhat qualified to make the following statements.
I have been traveling the world since I was born. My father was a military man, and I, following our family tradition, enlisted at a young age. For twenty one years I have served in the American Armed Forces. In that time, I have actually stepped foot upon six out of seven possible continents, the exception being Antarctica. Below are the countries I have actually visited;
Korea, Japan, Thailand, Laos, Australia, Philippines, Indonesia, Panama, Honduras, Mexico, Canada, England, Ireland, France, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain, Hungary, Bosnia, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Bahrain, United Arab Emirates, Kuwait, and Iraq. I'm sure there are others but from the list you get the idea, I'm a well traveled individual.
During that time I managed to complete 4 college degrees. An Associate of Arts in English, a Bachelor of Arts in History, a Bachelor of Science in Political Science, and a Master of Arts in Diplomacy. My studies were conducted both in the U.S. and abroad. I've studied international relations and taken courses about ancient and contemporary Russia, China, South East Asia, European, and American History. Once again, you get the point, I am a well educated individual.
I speak three languages passably well, and know phrases or words in countless others. Early in my travels I learned that communication was critical.
In all my studies, travels, and interactions with peoples of other nations I have experienced positive and negative situations. In each nation I saw fathers and mothers working hard to support their families. Fathers and Mothers reassuring their children when they got hurt or upset. I saw children laughing and playing with one another. Warm smiles, hand shakes, and even embraces between friends were as prevalent in each country as my own. I also saw arguments and fights over the silliest of things, much as we have here in the U.S.
So many times I read posts about how ignorant the Americans are, how wimpy the French are, how smelly Europeans in general are, and how evil this or that nationality is. I can tell you right now from experience, Every Nation on this Planet has some kind of beauty, some kind of promise, and yes, some kind of ugliness. In EVERY nation you have ignorance and intolerance. All too often we are ready to point fingers at the faults of another merely in the exercise of making ourselves feel superior. It is time for all of us to look in the mirror and address our own shortcomings and try to fix some of the problems each of us has.
For Americans to be shouting and bad mouthing other nations is just ridiculous. We are a nation of ALL nations. Within our borders we have citizens from every country on Earth. Our diversity is the real strength America possesses. I myself am descended from English and Irish. My wife is Japanese and Polish. I have friends who are Mexican, Arab, Asian, and others. It would be peevish of me to attack another's heritage. In the same vein, it is equally foolish to label all Americans ignorant or obtuse.
The most destructive and senseless war in history was fought in the name of nationality. World War I should never have occurred. Because of a series of secret treaties, colonial competition, and nationalistic pride, we almost wiped out an entire generation of people. The belief that one particular race or nation is naturally superior physically, intellectually, and spiritually is quite simply a load of rubbish. Let us not forget the lessons of World War I and, later, the Third Reich. We must learn to effectively communicate people, or we as a species are doomed to oblivion.
Soldiers involved in combat will tell you to forget all the lofty ideology, the motivational speeches. When you crawl down into the filth among the soldiers, they are all about business. They are not there to prove any political stance. They are there to accomplish a goal that was given them by their officers. They are more concerned with keeping themselves and their buddies alive until the objective is accomplished. The soldiers on the other side of the battle line are worried about the same things. We are, after all, only human. Forget the hype, remember what it REALLY means to be human.
Before you begin to believe that I am simply a bleeding heart spouting touchy feely hogwash, consider this. Three times I have been in harm's way. Three times my hands have been awash in the blood of both friends and enemies. Those who have not engaged in the ultimate struggle have no REAL appreciation of what peace really means. Consider yourselves blessed or lucky or whatever your belief system may be. Do not be so eager to send your military forces into harms way for some imagined insult or slight. Seriously, I don't want to see anymore friends (or enemies for that matter) die needlessly for some crazy nationalistic notion of superiority. We are all equal parts guilty and ignorant.
Admin, I apologize if this post violates the terms of use but this is something I felt strongly enough about that I had to take the risk of being banned. My only intention was to encourage sensible dialogue and thought about a most annoying topic. Thank you for listening.
"Hey Yall! Watch this!!"
Grym Goblinsbane
(My son speaking to his Japanese Grandmother) " Sorry Obaba, I don't speak Japanese, I only speak human."
Comments
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33.333333333333336% of me is a huge nerd! How about you?
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1. You give Bush wayyy too much power. Hes only a pawn in a larger conspiracy.
2. He didnt start the Police the world mentality, hes just carrying on the trend that has been going for quite a long while.
Oh. And grym. Haha. I dont just badmouth other countries, I as well badmouth my own. Why? Well Because I see that as they really are. Corrupt.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
you guys, this person takes his time, around 30 minutes to write a long post and you guys just go through and bash the hell out of him?
President Bush went to war with Iraq for WMD, and did we find any? well CNN says no, CNN is a strict liberal media with one mindset "REPUBLICANS ARE BAD"
if you guys would open your minds for a second , you would realize Bush is in the top 10 presidents we have ever had (with washington, fdr, and reagan)
listen to this..
from:
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_1.html
WorldTribune.com
UN inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before war and after
SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM
Friday, June 11, 2004
The United Nations has determined that Saddam Hussein shipped weapons of mass destruction components as well as medium-range ballistic missiles before, during and after the U.S.-led war against Iraq in 2003. The UN Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission briefed the Security Council on new findings that could help trace the whereabouts of Saddam's missile and WMD program. The briefing contained satellite photographs that demonstrated the speed with which Saddam dismantled his missile and WMD sites before and during the war. Council members were shown photographs of a ballistic missile site outside Baghdad in May 2003, and then saw a satellite image of the same location in February 2004, in which facilities had disappeared.
UNMOVIC acting executive chairman Demetrius Perricos told the council on June 9 that "the only controls at the borders are for the weight of the scrap metal, and to check whether there are any explosive or radioactive materials within the scrap," Middle East Newsline reported.
"It's being exported," Perricos said after the briefing. "It's being traded out. And there is a large variety of scrap metal from very new to very old, and slowly, it seems the country is depleted of metal." "The removal of these materials from Iraq raises concerns with regard to proliferation risks," Perricos told the council. Perricos also reported that inspectors found Iraqi WMD and missile components shipped abroad that still contained UN inspection tags. He said the Iraqi facilities were dismantled and sent both to Europe and around the Middle East. at the rate of about 1,000 tons of metal a month. Destionations included Jordan, the Netherlands and Turkey.
Tuesday, August 26, 2003 :Report: U.S suspects Iraqi WMD in Lebanon's Bekaa Valley
The Baghdad missile site contained a range of WMD and dual-use components, UN officials said. They included missile components, reactor vessel and fermenters the latter required for the production of chemical and biological warheads.
"It raises the question of what happened to the dual-use equipment, where is it now and what is it being used for," Ewen Buchanan, Perricos's spokesman, said. "You can make all kinds of pharmaceutical and medicinal products with a fermenter. You can also use it to breed anthrax." The UNMOVIC report said Iraqi missiles were dismantled and exported to such countries as Jordan, the Netherlands and Turkey. In the Dutch city of Rotterdam, an SA-2 surface-to-air missile, one of at least 12, was discovered in a junk yard, replete with UN tags. In Jordan, UN inspectors found 20 SA-2 engines as well as components for solid-fuel for missiles. "The problem for us is that we don't know what may have passed through these yards and other yards elsewhere," Buchanan said. "We can't really assess the significance and don't know the full extent of activity that could be going on there or with others of Iraq's neighbors." UN inspectors have assessed that the SA-2 and the short-range Al Samoud surface-to-surface missile were shipped abroad by agents of the Saddam regime. Buchanan said UNMOVIC plans to inspect other sites, including in Turkey. In April, International Atomic Energy Agency director-general Mohammed El Baradei said material from Iraqi nuclear facilities were being smuggled out of the country.
from:
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_1.html
WorldTribune.com
Let us see if the liberal media put's this on the news so far I have been checking CNN and not a word.......murt
and I end with this, Bush is a great man, a great president, he took a tyrant out of power and put us Americans in safety from the hands of evil.
For Gods sake, would you liberals LEAVE HIM ALONE!
http://www.facebook.com/murtb
Damn.... You guys didn't have many good Presidents... Not trying to bash bush too much... But out of all America, this is your man running your country? Yea, that seems about right.
"President Bush went to war with Iraq for WMD, and did we find any? well CNN says no, CNN is a strict liberal media with one mindset "REPUBLICANS ARE BAD" "
They DIDN'T find weapons of mass destruction. You'd know that ANY newstation is not allowed to post facts that aren't true. So don't blame CNN on this whole thing. If they say for a fact that they didn't find WMD, then they didn't find WMD.
This isn't the first time this has happened... Later back they bombed a factory because they thought it was a distribution of WMD.... Was there? No, it was a factory making tylenol.
But i don't care about politics anyways. Teens aren't allowed to vote, and i'm happy with who is running my country anyways...
NVidia - The way it is meant to be played
ATI - The way it really plays
alright alright...
backing out....
http://www.facebook.com/murtb
I wasn't bashing him, see my last line that says it isn't towards him. And Murt, geez what is your obsession with GWB, I would be afraid if you saw him in public you'd try and hump his leg
. But anyways, as far as the no WMD, it's not that just CNN said it, Colin Powell, George Bush, and just about every other ignorant shit-for-brains on capitol hill confirmed no WMD. The only decent thing Bush did was lower taxes, but that went to all hell as the war began.
I truley believe that Bush had planned an attack on Iraq even before he went into office. He probably sat down with daddy bush on father's day and said "Dad, you know, you didn't get that SOB Saddam, so I am going to run for president, fuck up the polls in Florida to make sure I win, and go to Iraq and get Saddam for ya. I don't care what happens to this country, just as long as daddy is happy, so Happy Father's Da!. Now can I have a pony ride on your back YEEEHAAW!"
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33.333333333333336% of me is a huge nerd! How about you?
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"President Bush went to war with Iraq for WMD, and did we find any? well CNN says no, CNN is a strict liberal media with one mindset "REPUBLICANS ARE BAD" "
I wasn't bashing him, see my last line that says it isn't towards him. And Murt, geez what is your obsession with GWB, I would be afraid if you saw him in public you'd try and hump his leg
. But anyways, as far as the no WMD, it's not that just CNN said it, Colin Powell, George Bush, and just about every other ignorant shit-for-brains on capitol hill confirmed no WMD. The only decent thing Bush did was lower taxes, but that went to all hell as the war began.
I truley believe that Bush had planned an attack on Iraq even before he went into office. He probably sat down with daddy bush on father's day and said "Dad, you know, you didn't get that SOB Saddam, so I am going to run for president, fuck up the polls in Florida to make sure I win, and go to Iraq and get Saddam for ya. I don't care what happens to this country, just as long as daddy is happy, so Happy Father's Da!. Now can I have a pony ride on your back YEEEHAAW!"
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33.333333333333336% of me is a huge nerd! How about you?
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Haha, so true. I for one hate bush, so you can bash him all you like Dekron, i wasn't directing my statement towards you.
And yes, if Murt saw GWB he would probably hump his leg, or have sex with him
. I knew he had a thing for Mr. Bush.
I for one would pie him if i were near him.
NVidia - The way it is meant to be played
ATI - The way it really plays
First, considering WMD...they existed. U.S. soldiers confiscated mass amounts of supplies for toxins and bio-agents about the time France expressed their discontent with the whole ordeal. The catch was that the supplies confiscated actually were flagged French...go figure. Want my source? A close family friend has been in the airforce 22 years...He flew back one of the C-5s loaded with the stuff.
Personally, I hate American attitude. The fact that most Americans are ignorant and blind to it makes it even worse. We ARE all human, but most Americans think they're part of some superior race.
Bush isn't the best president, but he IS our president nonetheless. Don't like it? Elections are in November, cast your vote.
I'm going to keep my mouth as closed as possible on the whole topic, because my opinions are likely to set a few people off. However, they're just that: MY OPNIONS. Not anyone elses. Not everyone is going to agree on the subject of what happened, but show some fucking decency and respect. It's the one human thing everyone should be able to do.
AHH! Run away from the monster! He's going to eat us!
Killer 100% Socializer 40% Explorer 33% Achiever 27%
ok. Everyone watch their language. I'm referring especially to dekron and rathma. There is no need for nasty comments in a political thread. Can we please try to stay more civil then politicians?!
"And to finwe...you could use a good quote.. "democracy is the worst form of government except for all others that have been tried"."
Democracy=Ends up turning into socialism=Ends up turning into marxism=Ends up being communism=EVIL!
"Democracy is the biggest auction of stolen goods" (para-phrasing)
"OH yeah...I hate bush to...really if you are voting for him there is something wrong with you mentally."
So if that makes people mentally ill, that would mean all those who vote for kerry are in a vegetative state, and those who voted for Clinton were dead?!
" Damn.... You guys didn't have many good Presidents... Not trying to bash bush too much... But out of all America, this is your man running your country? Yea, that seems about right."
Sureee. That wasnt bashing at all....
You're from where....
"So I leave off with...OPEN YOUR OWN EYES MURT AND QUIT TELLING OTHERS TO DO SO...cause you are telling them to open up to your republican glorification."
This has nothing to do with Republicans. In fact considering that Bush is probably one of the most liberal type republicans. Hes expanded government (very liberal like, completely against conservatism) countries deficit has gone up, etc etc.
Very opposite from somone like reagan.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
Eilt Druin
Through knowledge, power.
Eilt Druin
Through knowledge, power.
Hats off to Grym, I hope one day I'll have gained the experience and wisdom to be able to talk like that. Human nature, good and bad, doesn't change wherever you go in the world. I don't know whether I just watch too much X-files as a kid but I also don't believe you can lay too much blame at Bush's door, or any political leaders - I just don't believe they have that much power for the most part, and any power they do have is given to them; it's not inherent within them. They only ever rule through the complicity of others.
One of the things I didn't like about the press coverage given to things like the WMD issue and the abuse of Iraqi prisoners is that to me it all seemed like a big case of misdirection. By making such a big deal out of the fact that the government potentially lied about Iraq having WMDs, they seemed to be trying to make it look like other than this governments never lie to us about important issues. With the massive coverage of the abuse of the iraqi prisoners they seemed to be portraying it as a rare occurance that doesn't go on all over the world.
All governments lie all the time. Prisoners of war have been abused by every nation for the last 5000 years or more and I don't see it stopping any time soon. I'm not saying that it's any more right now than it ever was, but to single out one event, or one nation, and then pretend the rest of it never happened, that we're not just as guilty... that's not much better in my book.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
Keep it clean boys and girls.
- Malkavian
"When you find youself sinking into Madness, dive" - Malkavian Proverb
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
Forum Stalker
Malkavian@mmorpg.com
"When you find yourself sinking into Madness, dive"
Guys, calm down already. I believe some of you missed the point. This thread has NOTHING to do with Politics. It has everything to do with the commonality of being human. Nowhere in my post did you see me address my Commander in Chief nor his policies. Please don't turn this into a Liberal vs. Conservative debate. By the way, both parties are included in the Human being category, so neither of them are infallible.
As to the abuse at Abu Ghraib Prison, please do not associate the ill advised behavior of a few individuals with the majority of the American Armed Forces. Most of the soldiers I've spoken too were just as appalled by what happened as some of you. We are the ones who now have to work even more diligently to erase that tarnish. Believe it or not, we receive training at least once a year about basic values.
Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Honor, Integrity, and Professionalism.
These are lofty goals for ANYONE to achieve, much less some 1,000,000 men and women wearing a uniform. Also, that 1,000,000 may seem like a huge number, but did you Know that less than 1% of the American Population are presently in uniform? Fact.
F.D.R. said it more eloquently than I ever could.
President Franklin D. Roosevelt laid out what were called The Four Freedoms driving U.S. policy in January 1941, eleven months before the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. These high ideals of cooperation as well as confrontation saw us through to the end of the war and the ambitious peace that was built afterward:
In the future days which we seek to make secure, we look forward to a world founded upon four essential human freedoms.
The first is freedom of speech and expressioneverywhere in the world.
The second is freedom of every person to worship God in his own wayeverywhere in the world.
The third is freedom from want, which, translated into world terms, means economic understandings which will secure to every nation a healthy peacetime life for its inhabitantseverywhere in the world.
The fourth is freedom from fear, which, translated into world terms, means a world-wide reduction of armaments to such a point and in such a thorough fashion that no nation will be in a position to commit an act of physical aggression against any neighboranywhere in the world.
Thanks for the responses, but please guys, keep it civil and stop the flaming.
"Hey Yall! Watch this!!"
Grym Goblinsbane
(My son speaking to his Japanese Grandmother) " Sorry Obaba, I don't speak Japanese, I only speak human."
Originally posted by Finwe
POW's? Uhm. Pretty sure 3000 years ago they just killed everyone. Take no prisoners. Spare no mercy for you shall be shown none! Etc. etc.
Well, they didn't take prisoners as such, but the Egyptians were enslaving defeated enemies and mistreating them from way back when, and I sincerely doubt they were the first to think "hey, we've beaten these guys into the ground, now we make them do all the dirty work and we can do whatever we want to them".
BTW, is anyone else having problem with HTML code not getting saved correctly?
First i am not going to add to the discussion of WMD or Bush or Blair.It been done before and i am yet to see one person whose views changed.
My reply is for the original poster.One thing that you said i think solves 90% of the world's problems.
We are all one nation -Earth.Sooner we realise this sooner we can end a lot of problems in this world and look at the bigger picture.
No one says war is good.To like war is to like death and suffering.Yet somehow americans actually HATE french folk now for not going to war!!!
WHY?! It was their right to NOT go as it was your right to go to war.
Bushy and Teflon Tony started a fight under the guise of terorism.They went for Saddam after 9/11 instead of all out for Bin Lid. Thats their flaw.
At end of the day they are politicians and what do they know eh?
Original poster was very right and made good post. Others just need to open their eyes and minds a little before spouting crap about stuff they dont know anything about ,yet think they are masters about it all.
Could do worse than to take leaf out of original posters book .
Actually you're thinking of a defeated nation. Usually all the soldiers were dead by the time the enslavement erupted.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
Same as stuff confiscated from various sources in the middle east were supplied by america eh? Arms to iraq/iran/talaban etc Things being made in france didnt and does not mean they made them for terrorsts does it? Things like that very rarely go straight from manufacturer to end user anyway.
WMD. Yeah lol. Like if say for example ,China invaded USA they wouldnt find toxins and shit that *could* feasably make WMD? But then again USA wouldnt attack another country ,like Iraq could have,without backing of a mulit country/world organization would they? Ooops.... my bad.
as long as the conservatives dont get elected in canada, and Were not going to Iraq, Im happy.
Also I cant wait till they prove that aliens exhist.
Then they can make them sound evil, and make everyone think they are out to kill us, so that we work together as a planet.
As humans, people have to need to have somthing to to agaised, somthing to be the "evil"
Now if we can all agree that it is this alien race, then we can stop with the war among ourselves.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
I'm hoping they discover some aliens, just so I can get off this planet.
The fact that rather than praise Gryms post, everyone and their mother got out their sticks and somehow turned this into a liberal/conservative wankfest just points to the fact that the only thing greater than humanities ingenuity, is it's capacity for staggering amounts of stupid.
My favorite time period in America would be the 20s-50s. During that time, a great many major events occured in this country that showed the depth of our national character, our tenacity, and our ability to put our differences aside, and act as a country, rather than a group of disparate individuals.
Everytime I hear someone like Sean Hannity(sp?) speak on his radio program, my mind boggles. He, and those like him are a major part of what is ripping this country in half. Devisive, and inflammatory rhetoric does no one any good, liberal or conservative. Last I checked, we were all Americans first, and a particular political affiliation somewhere down towards the bottom of the list. What does it say about the Land of the Free, when people are calling their fellow countrymen terrorist sympathisers, unpatriotic, and worse, for simply speaking their opinion that the Gov't is doing the wrong thing. Last I checked, we still retain the right to free speech.
As to the poster who brought up the liberal media. There's plenty of conservative media out there, and they are just as slanted in their favor as the liberal outlets.
Meh, what do I care, continue with your orgy of fingerpointing and name calling. You are a shining example of what the original poster was speaking of.
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They panic, so just hold them down
I could live like this
Im closing in; hate all around
I could be like this
Hearing them, them in my head
How could they be so sweet... sweet?
Both are wrong. Both have deviated from what this country was suppose to be, and was. You have republicans wanting to go to war. And you have democrats wanting to expand government and make it a socialist country.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
Politicians are a breed of parasite unto themselves.
The problem is more the fault of the liberal/conservative mouthpieces like Al Franken, Rush Limbaugh who, rather than use their positions to simply inform people, twist everything to fit their view, spew all sorts of inflamitory nonsense because sensationalism gets ratings, and generally worsen an already bad atmosphere were people can't simply disagree, and concede the other side might have a point, and work towards a common ground, but berate each other as fascists, or spineless pansies, or whatever.
This country in particular, and the world in general needs a dose of common sense. Quite frankly, a couple swigs of reality wouldn't hurt either. But people would rather bury their heads in the sand, and continue onward like there is nothing at all wrong. Better they offer up their backsides than me, I guess.
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They panic, so just hold them down
I could live like this
I'm closing in; hate all around
I could be like this
Hearing them, them in my head
How could they be so sweet... sweet?
"My favorite time period in America would be the 20s-50s"
Those who went through the great depression did not think it was so great. And those who went through their school age years and beyond practicing 'duck and cover' did not think that it was a bowl of cherries either.
"Everytime I hear someone like Sean Hannity(sp?) speak on his radio program, my mind boggles."
And
" Last I checked, we still retain the right to free speech. "
Which is it?
They might not have thought it was so great, but they survived it. Which is more than I can say for much of todays society in America. I'd give good money to see what would happen to the average suburbanite in that situation. Would they prove to be made of tougher stuff than their cushy lifestyle would suggest? Perhaps, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
I never said he didn't have a right to say what he does. Simply put, he could put his position to better uses than berating people for having a different view. But, then, speaking rationally and trying to inform people from an unbiased point of view doesn't sell as much ad time as inflammatory rhetoric. Wacky idea, I know.
-------
They panic, so just hold them down
I could live like this
I'm closing in; hate all around
I could be like this
Hearing them, them in my head
How could they be so sweet... sweet?