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More meaningless PVP
ghoul31
Member Posts: 1,955
This is just another game with meaningless PVp
Your cities are in instances, so they can't be attacked. You can attack keeps, but each guild can only have one keep. So what do you do after you get a keep? Nothing.
No empire building, no politics, ne real virtual worlds. I don't see why people want a game with no point to it.
The PVp battles may be fun, but you don't need a MMORPG to do that. You could just make a FPS for that.
Comments
Secondly FPS games don't offer the same kind of action as an MMO. With an MMO it's more paced. Combat has usually comes in the form of a Group vs Group melee. FPSs are usually 1-2 on 1-2 at a distance. MMOs require strategy and AoC will have some skill, whereas FPSs are only skill, if you can even call it that. It's more like an ability to twitch with accuracy.
BTW, you get stuff from sieging. And from what I can remember from dev quotes, everyone will have their own place in a siege.
Your PvE cities are instanced yes, fully attackable by NPC hives. These hives are scalable in size due to the population of the area. Did you not read or see any of the media floating around about this the last 18 months? The PvE city area's have NOTHING to do with PvP, but they do attain to how well your battlekeep is. Resources done in and around the PvE city will be used to fortify, rebuild and make better your BattleKeep. Are you from a Shadowbane Zerg guild (meaningless PvP when sin sneaks into poison your tree at start)? Reason I ask is it seems your are unfamilar with the benefits of taking and holding a Keep...in AoC.
Expand and grow your PvE City, make use of the benefits it brings to crafters at the high end, with only guild facilities being available. Stock your Keep and arm your players with said benefits. Fortify your PvE city in relation to the hive growth in the area, ammend building and defenses from the NPC groups. Yes this isn't PvP but it also does minimally affect the ability to do things to your Keep.
You really think that there will be just 9 guilds on a server?? They have already expressed in partial detail the benefits for owning own.
Politics.... its a GvG system what more do you want where politics, supply and demand and status play more so in this system. Mercenary guild or players, one day might be on your side the next on the enemys. Race only guilds, sexual themes, brutal fighting - enough politics for you? Taxation, rulership style etc etc..
Real virtual worlds? this isn't Second Life.
Does your PvP experience really lack the enthusiam to be the best you can be? If you want that prestige then you have to fight for it, and equally defend it at the high end in Seige battles. Not to mention the mix of RTS style play. Ever thought people might want to do this in a world of a few thousand people? Ever considered what this might be like on the FFA type servers they said they will have?
The idea is to have a base of operations > operations on the "front line", population, recognition and vanity all stand in your way.
Congrats for your misinterpretation, misunderstanding and very, very weak put forward arguments.
Oh btw your "side" in a full RTS is made up of the computer, no real life people. If you want to continue to debate your "points" then by all means back them up with something..
Ghoul's a troll.... no reason to respond to his comments.... but you did a very good job Avery.....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Your PvE cities are instanced yes, fully attackable by NPC hives. These hives are scalable in size due to the population of the area. Did you not read or see any of the media floating around about this the last 18 months? The PvE city area's have NOTHING to do with PvP, but they do attain to how well your battlekeep is. Resources done in and around the PvE city will be used to fortify, rebuild and make better your BattleKeep. Are you from a Shadowbane Zerg guild? Reason I ask is it seems your are unfamilar with the benefits of taking and holding a Keep...in AoC.
Expand and grow your PvE City, make use of the benefits it brings to crafters at the high end, with only guild facilities being available. Stock your Keep and arm your players with said benefits. Fortify your PvE city in relation to the hive growth in the area, ammend building and defenses from the NPC groups. Yes this isn't PvP but it also does minimally affect the ability to do things to your Keep.
You really think that there will be just 9 guilds on a server?? They have already expressed in partial detail the benefits for owning own.
Politics.... its a GvG system what more do you want where politics, supply and demand and status play more so in this system. Mercenary guild or players, one day might be on your side the next on the enemys. Race only guilds, sexual themes, brutal fighting - enough politics for you? Taxation, rulership style etc etc..
Real virtual worlds? this isn't Second Life.
Does your PvP experience really lack the enthusiam to be the best you can be? If you want that prestige then you have to fight for it, and equally defend it at the high end in Seige battles. Not to mention the mix of RTS style play. Ever thought people might want to do this in a world of a few thousand people? Ever considered what this might be like on the FFA type servers they said they will have?
The idea is to have a base of operations > operations on the "front line", population, recognition and vanity all stand in your way.
Congrats for your misinterpretation, misunderstanding and very, very weak put forward arguments.
Oh btw your "side" in a full RTS is made up of the computer, no real life people. If you want to continue to debate your "points" then by all means back them up with something..
Summary: "I find your lack of faith disturbing." lolEncore
On a related note, respawn points also effect your ability to get in back in the fight as well. If attacking guild is pushed back further I believe it would take someone who just spawned a longer time to get back to the front line. Where as defenders spawn inside the Keep. Challenge seems like a more appropriate more for your topic title OP.
The whole reason they made it so your city can't be attacked by other players is they were afraid that if a guild's city was destroyed, they would be upset and leave the game.
So obviously when the NPC's attack you your ciy, it won't be a serious threat. Since they don't want anyone to lose their city.
The whole reason they made it so your city can't be attacked by other players is they were afraid that if a guild's city was destroyed, they would be upset and leave the game.
So obviously when the NPC's attack you your ciy, it won't be a serious threat. Since they don't want anyone to lose their city.
He wrote like... a frickin' ESSAY on how wrong you were, and you choose two sentences to reply to.
And you can't even get the reply right...
Now playing: City of Heroes/Villains, Age of Conan
Played: Eve, Hg:L, Vanguard, WoW, FFXI, Planetside, Neocron, Battlezone, EQII, AO, CoX, AA, DDO
I win at Vanguard.
I disagree with the OP. For one thing, rules in MMORPG always change. AoC has a great foundation (in concept, we still have to see it in practice). PvP is not meaningless, its a challenge...just like raiding, crafting, questing ..all chalenges in thier own way.
I ,for one, am looking to see how it all gets put together.
Torrential
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
it's because your "criticism" didn't make any sense. at all.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
To the OP, how can you complain (whine) about something you haven't seen nor you have tried.
exactly.
You're making a ton of assumptions.
He is entitled to his opinion, although his objective is uncertain to me.
This isn't going to be a game I play to PVP hardcore on, that is what WAR will be for. AoC is going to be the game that I RP, craft, and do guild work with. Will I pvp? Yes, I will PvP untill my eyes bleed to save the keep my guild may have. That, to me, is meaningful PvP.
However, I feel that some of your points are moot, while some hold truth. I'm just uncertain whats upsetting you, if anything at all.
I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad, The dreams in which I'm dieing are the best I've ever had.
What would Brian Boitano do if he was here right now? He would kick an ass or two, that's what Brian Boitano'd do!
Sorry I couldn't help myself.
I'd like to see a concrete example by the OP on what he would consider meaningful pvp. As stated before, there's nothing more meaningful then defending your keep from attacking hordes of barberians, mercs and so on. Something you work hard to acquire I sure hope you'll try to defend.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
Check out Eve...
For me, the fight is the meaning of pvp. I could care less about what we are fighting for. It's the big battles that float my boat.
For pvp to be meaningful there needs to be a big cost for losing. In Eve when you lose, you lose your ship and need to build a new one, or you lose your region in space and all the perks associated with it, your stations, outposts, everything. If you are conquering you can take a region, use it as a base then start taking over more regions and stations.
This is precisely why I quit playing eve. Where there's real loss there's a need to grind money, and if you don't have much time for gaming, you don't have much time to grind, therefore can't pvp as much.
All that being said, if I could game 10 hours a day, instead of working for that time to pay my mortgage, I'd be back to Eve in a heartbeat. For my situation, pvp, without a large cost for losing, is ideal so Eve is the wrong game for me. I like to be able to jump into the fray and back out when I need to go do something IRL. If I have 2 hours a day, the last thing I want to be doing is grinding money for a few weeks so I can pvp for an hour before needing to go do it again.
That's what "meaningful" pvp is about. Better have some time on your hands LAWL.
-Viz
They say your trolling because of this.
I think you set your standard to high for meaningfull pvp. What exactly do you want? In a game world you are always going to have to limit some of the control players have your gonna end up with a game dominated by the super guild. I think allowing only 1 battlekeep per guild increases the politics of the game. Instead of a super guild against server you have a handful of large guilds that control keeps and have alliances as well as ally with smaller guilds to take out larger competitors. I've always thought a wide open player controlled world would be amazing but the implementation is impossible due to the fact it would be dominated by one group.
Sadly I have to agree with the OP. Meaningless pvp and instancing is just not for me! Good concept, but the way it seems to be going (and the videos ive seen) make me sad because I was excited about this game at first.
And this:
I asked about the death penalty and bindpoints. "We have numerous bindpoints, and we try to tie it in with the lore so that it makes sense. We try to avoid the strict penalties of death that some games have used. Current design has two minutes of reduction in skills, and maybe you lose some blood money. We don't want to punish you too much for dying, because you will die a lot in this game." he laughs, "I promise. If you die during a siege, you will be teleported back to the scene. If you die very often, you might incur more penalties, to prevent 'Zerg' rushing."
YUCK YUCK YUCK!! This is what op means when he says meaningless.
Oh well looks like Darkfall is going to come out at around the same time. And this game was going to be a placeholder for Darkfall anyways so
.
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
Its not impossible. They do it in Shadowbane. On the server I play on, there is no superguild.
In AOC the 9 guilds who holds the keeps could form a superalliance between them. So that could happen in any game.
Its not impossible. They do it in Shadowbane. On the server I play on, there is no superguild.
In AOC the 9 guilds who holds the keeps could form a superalliance between them. So that could happen in any game.
Alliances are not in the game as we speak. What stops anyone entering the BorderLands to lay claim to your Keep? A. Nothing, except the time window. The system is set up differently than Shadowbane, they took everything crap about that game and all the issues people had and are trying to improve on it and do it a slightly different way.
To OP I don't know if anyone has said this yet but the reason that there is no PVP citys and they are instances is because no clan/guild could operate a 24/7 way to defend there city vs seiges. No one is going to play 24/7 just so there city inside a mmo is going to stay alive. This isn't real life you cant have people stuck in a city 24hours as guards it just wont work. Unless every gamer in the world played this game and you could then possible think about having city seiges.
thats why there are siege windows.
The whole reason they made it so your city can't be attacked by other players is they were afraid that if a guild's city was destroyed, they would be upset and leave the game.
So obviously when the NPC's attack you your ciy, it won't be a serious threat. Since they don't want anyone to lose their city.
that's why they have PvP cities too. Also, you can lose those. Thus invalidating your point here. And NPCs can take a city, I would assume so anyway. Unless of course you can back up your theory of the AI not being able to do anything significant to a city... Should I take that as a no?
Ghoul lacks somewhat in the communication department but I understand what he means.
The natural end of conflict is to pounch each other until you sette your conflict either through killing them, subdueing them or removing their resources.
In WoW, WAR, AoC there is no motivation for conflict other than lets fight until some kind of event happens (time, flag reach base whatever). So you run, kill, die, teleport, run, kill, die, teleport. Every time hardly without any penalty. I have no numbers in how many times I did that in AV (WoW) and let me tell you, I was borderline insane in the end.
The only answer FUNCOM have to combat zerging is to slow down the teleport. Make them pay for dying and I'll guarantee you that the zerging will stop.
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
I think you can pvp to get fun. If victory gets so important (like gw and the ladder) the game will become not funny, cause people will do anything lame, or buggy, to win!
if its just for fun, its not meaningless 
) and no, not only fps are for fun. Games must be for it, more than to demonstrate the others you are better than them in a virtual world, cause you cant in RL, not flaming, just, think about it.
What are you playing for? fun? or to get more cities than the other one? to get "the biggest city", it can be fun, and it can be a good option. Of course. But this dont means that if dont have the ... "mean" you think it must, its being meaningless.
take a look to this this community.ageofconan.com/wsp/conan/frontend.cgi that just came out in Issue #10
As I said, I hope it dont gets to "serious" (aye, like guildwars and the competition, this is a game for relax and fun, not a sport... some of us have a life) and wait to see how warfare works, the mounted combat seems that can be very nice too.