My honest take on both games, WoW and DAoC, is that both games have pretty good overall class balance. 90% of players don't seem to have a problem with it. Some players either get their egos bruised in PvP and proceed to while ceaselessly about it, or are unwilling to adjust to the "rock/ paper /scissors" balance inherent in 1 on 1 matchups between particular classes.
There is no way you are going to get every possible combination of classes balanced against eachother. In WoW this would be, what 64 combinatiosn to tweak (I think I must be forgetting some class). You can go ahead and multiply that by 3 for all the talent trees if you feel like it. In DAoC I can't even begin to think how many comboes that is. Some comboes are going to be really unbalanced, that's all there is to it. Scissors, meet rock.
I think it does suck that gear can trump skill in WoW. The current PvP scene in WoW is basically DAoC post TOA, with no classic servers. And for long time gear trumped skill in DAoC, Mythic took way too long to respond when they started bleeding subs after TOA. However, I personally never had a big problem with class balance in either game, and I certainly wouldn't say that either game was greatly worse than the other overall.
That should be a crazy enough opinion to get me flamed by just about everyone. . .
More on topic, I feel a lot of sympathy for the OP on the Canada shipping thing. Other companies can figure out how to do it, I think it's not an unreasonable expectation that Mythic ought to have it available.
The beta key, well "meh." I'd rather them take their time with the game, they obviously aren't ready to let more testers see it right now. Enough bad word of mouth and the game will be stillborn.
As for the lack of official forums, have you ever been to the WoW forums? Those guys are the biggest bunch of f-ing asshats that I have ever seen congregate in one place. I literally am dumbfounded by the ingnorance, brazen immaturity, and overwhelming hostility that is on display every time I'm stupid enough to poke my head in there. Really, read any four random threads you will start to wish for a major worldwide plague. If Mythic doesn't want to put their name on an internet cesspool of social depravity, I can't really say I blame them.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Off topic: real gamers don't care about balance. Having the classes slightly unbalance is actually a good thing. It gives good players a challenging class to play and it gives bad players an easy class to play.
You know a great player when you see one kicking ass in pvp with a weak class.
I'm more concerned about weather I enjoy the game or not. None of those issues really matter to me. It's pretty harsh to come out and say you wont play a game before you have even tried it do to some things the company has done with the game beforehand.
To the poster who said canadian money is worth more than american. Whats your point? No canada is not a third world country but the value of your dollar means jack squat. If everything was so peachy dandy in canada, why arent all the illegal aliens heading for canadas border instead of americas? I have nothing against Canada at all, but to try and argue your point with the value of a dollar is moronic at best.
Canada actually has a very high per-capita immigration rate. About twice that of the US, and about #7 overall worldwide.
Thank you for correcting me, I have very poor memory of names and how they are spelt.
A lot of heated arguments, but dropping the flames its quite interesting. Its true that DAoC is not intended for 1 on 1 PVPing, its a zerg feast back then, 50 vs 40 (no kidding) easily. Any class, anyone in the team of 40 will be able to contribute (say by dying first and buying time for the rest to deliver an alpha strike). Your rogue maybe able to stun lock my shaman and kill me in 5 strikes, but this will give my team mate enough time to AoE your team to heaven. So who wins? you? me? or my realm?
I played a shaman back then, I am the target always, and I sampled every single inch of the soil in the frontiers. I was in Percival server back then and more often than not we own the realm keeps of the other sides. So yes I would say as a shaman I am an underdog, but then as a midgard I am a winner. That is not because midgards are better, that is because in those days we have a few big guilds who can mobilise 100 players within 2 minutes. We zerg them, no skill, no balancing, no nothing. We just ran over them (our guild has over 20 lvl 50s logged out in our frontier keep, you come we all log on and meet you in 1 minute, and yeah we call each other by phone). This is the kind of RvR and that is the real feeling of competition in life. As anyone very observant player said above, if we cannot beat them call in the calvary.
WoW's PVP is pretty limited in comparison, and it has been too well described above.
WoW's PVP is a rediculous Frankenstein cobbled together to keep PvPers from bailing. The game is static and all the PvPing amounts to squat. It was just a half-hearted afterthought.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR Playing: WAR Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
oh oh hey there cowboy slow down, you have no idea what your talking about
first, mythic never ''updated'' to play with 2 account on one pc, if you do, you have a big and clear message saying something like this:DAOC DOES NOT support 2 account running on the same pc, if you experience any problem close 1 of them.
second: Armsmen is play, was played and will still be because climbing wall with a polearm in your hand and doing massive dmg is just cool and oh yea, last patch they NERFED armsman because 1 style was doing a little too much dmg, talk about underpower.
wen you buy DR expantion it comes with a 2nd account so you can BB------- UH?
As far as I know and im not saying it was a good expension, but the player wanted something like TOA, more pve more pve more pve,where they did go wrong is making them affect rvr too much, you needed them to be competitive,but now a few years after, TOA is very fun to play and its pretty easy to get anything you want.
The thing is, when people play this game, they think they will get to 50, get a few items , cap their stats and holy macaroni, ill pawn in RVR! no you wont, because you are low RR (realm rank) and a low rr can get beat down by any class with high rr or they spam the /region wanting to be power level, get to 50 and have no freaking clue how to play their class.
Comments
My honest take on both games, WoW and DAoC, is that both games have pretty good overall class balance. 90% of players don't seem to have a problem with it. Some players either get their egos bruised in PvP and proceed to while ceaselessly about it, or are unwilling to adjust to the "rock/ paper /scissors" balance inherent in 1 on 1 matchups between particular classes.
There is no way you are going to get every possible combination of classes balanced against eachother. In WoW this would be, what 64 combinatiosn to tweak (I think I must be forgetting some class). You can go ahead and multiply that by 3 for all the talent trees if you feel like it. In DAoC I can't even begin to think how many comboes that is. Some comboes are going to be really unbalanced, that's all there is to it. Scissors, meet rock.
I think it does suck that gear can trump skill in WoW. The current PvP scene in WoW is basically DAoC post TOA, with no classic servers. And for long time gear trumped skill in DAoC, Mythic took way too long to respond when they started bleeding subs after TOA. However, I personally never had a big problem with class balance in either game, and I certainly wouldn't say that either game was greatly worse than the other overall.
That should be a crazy enough opinion to get me flamed by just about everyone. . .
More on topic, I feel a lot of sympathy for the OP on the Canada shipping thing. Other companies can figure out how to do it, I think it's not an unreasonable expectation that Mythic ought to have it available.
The beta key, well "meh." I'd rather them take their time with the game, they obviously aren't ready to let more testers see it right now. Enough bad word of mouth and the game will be stillborn.
As for the lack of official forums, have you ever been to the WoW forums? Those guys are the biggest bunch of f-ing asshats that I have ever seen congregate in one place. I literally am dumbfounded by the ingnorance, brazen immaturity, and overwhelming hostility that is on display every time I'm stupid enough to poke my head in there. Really, read any four random threads you will start to wish for a major worldwide plague. If Mythic doesn't want to put their name on an internet cesspool of social depravity, I can't really say I blame them.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
You know a great player when you see one kicking ass in pvp with a weak class.
I'm more concerned about weather I enjoy the game or not. None of those issues really matter to me. It's pretty harsh to come out and say you wont play a game before you have even tried it do to some things the company has done with the game beforehand.
Canada actually has a very high per-capita immigration rate. About twice that of the US, and about #7 overall worldwide.
A lot of heated arguments, but dropping the flames its quite interesting. Its true that DAoC is not intended for 1 on 1 PVPing, its a zerg feast back then, 50 vs 40 (no kidding) easily. Any class, anyone in the team of 40 will be able to contribute (say by dying first and buying time for the rest to deliver an alpha strike). Your rogue maybe able to stun lock my shaman and kill me in 5 strikes, but this will give my team mate enough time to AoE your team to heaven. So who wins? you? me? or my realm?
I played a shaman back then, I am the target always, and I sampled every single inch of the soil in the frontiers. I was in Percival server back then and more often than not we own the realm keeps of the other sides. So yes I would say as a shaman I am an underdog, but then as a midgard I am a winner. That is not because midgards are better, that is because in those days we have a few big guilds who can mobilise 100 players within 2 minutes. We zerg them, no skill, no balancing, no nothing. We just ran over them (our guild has over 20 lvl 50s logged out in our frontier keep, you come we all log on and meet you in 1 minute, and yeah we call each other by phone). This is the kind of RvR and that is the real feeling of competition in life. As anyone very observant player said above, if we cannot beat them call in the calvary.
WoW's PVP is pretty limited in comparison, and it has been too well described above.
WoW's PVP is a rediculous Frankenstein cobbled together to keep PvPers from bailing. The game is static and all the PvPing amounts to squat. It was just a half-hearted afterthought.
MMOs Played: EQ 1&2, DAoC, SWG, Planetside, WoW, GW, CoX, DDO, EVE, Vanguard, TR
Playing: WAR
Awaiting 40k Online and wishing for Battletech Online
AT WARCRYtm
oh oh hey there cowboy slow down, you have no idea what your talking about
first, mythic never ''updated'' to play with 2 account on one pc, if you do, you have a big and clear message saying something like this:DAOC DOES NOT support 2 account running on the same pc, if you experience any problem close 1 of them.
second: Armsmen is play, was played and will still be because climbing wall with a polearm in your hand and doing massive dmg is just cool and oh yea, last patch they NERFED armsman because 1 style was doing a little too much dmg, talk about underpower.
wen you buy DR expantion it comes with a 2nd account so you can BB------- UH?
As far as I know and im not saying it was a good expension, but the player wanted something like TOA, more pve more pve more pve,where they did go wrong is making them affect rvr too much, you needed them to be competitive,but now a few years after, TOA is very fun to play and its pretty easy to get anything you want.
The thing is, when people play this game, they think they will get to 50, get a few items , cap their stats and holy macaroni, ill pawn in RVR! no you wont, because you are low RR (realm rank) and a low rr can get beat down by any class with high rr or they spam the /region wanting to be power level, get to 50 and have no freaking clue how to play their class.