WoW4lifer I have no hostility towards people playing a game or the obvious fact that it seems that WoW is your first is fine you haven't learned yet, but if you are saying a CD is a necessity is beyond any common sense.
IQ in WoW is actually huge. Though the average player is rare. If you were to look at the top guilds on WoW or any MMo and their guild leaders and officers you would see some of the most intelligent people you could deal with.
Now I say good day sir to your obvious ignorance.
Edit> Play any free mmorpg on DSL (In my area DSL is 15 bucks a month) Excluding the fact that the DSL is used for absolutely nothing else. Now you want to say the computer is bought for only gaming ok you got me, but anyone who strictly uses a computer for gaming and not for work, school etc.. then your looking at a diminishing returns which isn't important.
Now I also know people who will go to my Universities library and play games such as Runequest for hours between classes (They are paying for school is that adding into your MMo equation of cost?)
I also know some individuals that go back to work in the evening to play WoW as to not tie up the computer at their house (O wait they are causing no output of cost due to electricity and the computer are free). If you want to argue that the job etc takes cuts its up to you.
If you want to get down to brass tax for you to walk down the street it costs you money or tax payers money since if you get arrested for not wearing clothes. Now don't argue freegans as that is idiotic and you can't consider them people.
Another thing quality isn't game mechanics, that's personal opinion, quality is optimization, bugs, etc. In terms of quality wow is still the best mmorpg, undisputably. Now game mechanics, that's opinion. Some people like tetris some people like first person shooters. If you don't like wow then don't come to the wow message board and flame and stir trouble taht simple.
Which is the best MMO is almost impossible to say because it depends on too many factors including personal preferences. But 85% of the US market?! You sure? I doubt it ...
Considering wow the be the best is a statment not a fact. WOW was good, i loved wow before the BG's were added. After that the game started going down hill and i noticed the faults that blizzard had.
Oh and a CD is not a luxury product because it's demand is not effected by the income of the buyer, the brand - as in sony, etc. etc. and there is more criteria too but i won't even bother with it cause those are the two most important.
abd I didn't say anything about a house, i said you need an adress to play which implies you are a homeowner or rent. and you are still even more blatantly wrong about mmorpgs costing 15 dollars, they cost much more than that. Show me an mmorpg that cost 15 dollars please to prove your point and i will concede that i am wrong.
This guy can't be serious.
Let me get it straight. You are saying that paying a MMORPG subscribtion is a luxury. And buying original music CD's not, because for MMORPG you need a computer and internet connection?
What about movie DVD's. Is it also not luxury? Besides, you actually need a CD radio for the music or a computer with internet connection to buy digital mp3 from itunes for example. Those are all not luxuries? It's not a luxury to buy a computer pay network connection and buy mp3 digitally from itunes? And the movie DVD's? You need a TV and dvd player for them. This is a twisted logic.
Given the callous, sarcastic and condescending nature of your original reply I don't think that it's inappropriate to demonstrate that I have experience like MMOs, and that I wasn't just saying "WoW is teh greatest!11!!" for the sake of it. I probably shouldn't have bothered, but I'm bored at work. So you quickly progressed through the content in WoW, pre-TBC - join the club. There wasn't as much content as EQ1, but then EQ1 had been out 5 years previous to WoW so that's hardly suprising. The actual content itself was no more difficult. Even compared to my experiences with Mata Muram and the like. The hard part of EQ1 content was actually finding players, maintaining a full raiding force in a game that was dying.
No It took us years to pass throught EQ1 raid content. WoW was almost finished in 3 months. There was nothing challenging that would keep us playing. Undoubtedly WoW has its own fun factor for majority, but don't try to convince me WoW is challenging in compare to other MMO's.
I don't try to convince anyone of anything around here. People are convinced that they're right and not even reason or logic will change their minds, especially with regard to WoW. I simply remove all the assumption and opinion from your arguments and strip them down to their component logical parts and reveal the falsehoods inside them. Whether or not you change your mind is beyond my control.
You erroneously claim you spent "years progressing" through EQ1 content compared to when "WoW was beaten in 3 months". EQ1 hardly had any raid content to speak of when that game went live. Plane of Sky was the first raid zone iirc and that was released shortly before to Kunark, like a year after the game went live.
Nagafen and Vox were killed within 3 months of EQ going live, simply because it was the only raid content. This was in the day before most people had even heard of a raid. There was nothing challenging about it, it was done by about 20 people who had just had the time to grind to level 50 or close to it. The game required groups, and the death penalty meant you spent far longer doing content than you do nowadays, but there was nothing more skillful about how you played it.
Raid encounters then had no twists, or surprises, or CC, or anything like that - not until Kunark (The first expansion - which you haven't seen for WoW). And it took you "years" to reach that point? If by "years of challenge", you mean, getting your epics when Kunark went live then you must have been ultra casual, or just not very good at the game. Veeshan's peak didn't take "years" to clear farm status, just a few months, tops.
You think you're being challenged, but in reality you're just spending longer doing exactly the same kind of thing (albiet less polished and generally less fun and requiring less thought). Sure, like I said, EQ1 by the time WoW had come out had seen the likes of Planes of Power, but that's because it had been out 5 years before.
But as to challenge, the raid encounters in both games are pretty much the same in terms of difficulty.
You still haven't beaten Illidan, and neither have I. The difference between us, is that you burned out racing to the end, but I had enough of that in EQ1. Everything else falls into the realm of perception and opinion. I find it incredible that people think that WoW is "easier", but if people want to believe that, nothing I say will convince them otherwise.
The hardest thing I ever did in EQ1 was pulling the rathe council back when they were fiddling with the encounter to change it from unbeatable to beateable, but to be honest that felt like I was wrestling with random FD fails - a dice roll, and dodgy net-code, and pathing mechanics more than anything else. Yes I know, using monks to split the rathe is painful, but we were "challenged" for finding hardcore bards at the time.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
First of all i whant to say that i am a guy who love's fairplay . Wow is a nice game , the content is good but when you come to animation , graphic it sux big time but the big problem is this : What is the point in geting the end-game gear? To do some end-game instance faster ? hmm , you can't be someone in WoW , you are just someone from Horde or Alliance and nothing more for the opposing faction. After you reach level 70 you start makeing honor for epic armors , enchants and after you are done , what's next? there is no open pvp , siege , or something ... WoW is a PvE game made for every kinder boy and the purpose was $$ my friends. Now most of wow-fanboys will start flame around stuff like "blahh you donno shit because there is open pvp and we have all " but in fact there is not , because of the BG's and all instanced pvp zone's , why where they added ? as an 10 - 12 year old kid you get mad very easy , and if all day where party's searching and destroy the hole map the little kinder's couldn't grind and of course it wouldn't be an 8 milion subs game , so to solve this problem they added BG's . Now you will say we can do that and we DO , but in fact no one does this , you all know that you win a lot more in some bg / arena then searching fields ... so my point is why should i play 1-2 years like a lunatic ? i see no point ... and btw you all know that the Horde and Alliance don't kill eachother anymore , they help eachother to do quest's , etc. So please don't claim that WoW is the best mmorpg ever because it's not , a game full of kinder kid's , a game that does not require player skill because it's full of macro's , a game that dosen't offer you not even a challange . Check Lineage 2 , you play like a lunatic for 1-2 years but in the end you can be an Alliance Leader , you can have a Castel gentelmen , you can be Hero .. only 1 player from each class has a crown and an aura + some skills , so my point is you can be someone , people can talk about you , but not in here because what is the point in haveing 8 milion ppl around me if i can't messure my power's we are all the same and all doing the same instance .. crap .. better play some Action or Rpg then this.
p.s. i am not an Lineage 2 fan or something , it was just an example , and there many out there ..
Given the callous, sarcastic and condescending nature of your original reply I don't think that it's inappropriate to demonstrate that I have experience like MMOs, and that I wasn't just saying "WoW is teh greatest!11!!" for the sake of it. I probably shouldn't have bothered, but I'm bored at work. So you quickly progressed through the content in WoW, pre-TBC - join the club. There wasn't as much content as EQ1, but then EQ1 had been out 5 years previous to WoW so that's hardly suprising. The actual content itself was no more difficult. Even compared to my experiences with Mata Muram and the like. The hard part of EQ1 content was actually finding players, maintaining a full raiding force in a game that was dying.
No It took us years to pass throught EQ1 raid content. WoW was almost finished in 3 months. There was nothing challenging that would keep us playing. Undoubtedly WoW has its own fun factor for majority, but don't try to convince me WoW is challenging in compare to other MMO's.
I don't try to convince anyone of anything around here. People are convinced that they're right and not even reason or logic will change their minds, especially with regard to WoW. I simply remove all the assumption and opinion from your arguments and strip them down to their component logical parts and reveal the falsehoods inside them. Whether or not you change your mind is beyond my control.
You erroneously claim you spent "years progressing" through EQ1 content compared to when "WoW was beaten in 3 months". EQ1 hardly had any raid content to speak of when that game went live. Plane of Sky was the first raid zone iirc and that was released shortly before to Kunark, like a year after the game went live.
Nagafen and Vox were killed within 3 months of EQ going live, simply because it was the only raid content. This was in the day before most people had even heard of a raid. There was nothing challenging about it, it was done by about 20 people who had just had the time to grind to level 50 or close to it. The game required groups, and the death penalty meant you spent far longer doing content than you do nowadays, but there was nothing more skillful about how you played it.
Raid encounters then had no twists, or surprises, or CC, or anything like that - not until Kunark (The first expansion - which you haven't seen for WoW). And it took you "years" to reach that point? If by "years of challenge", you mean, getting your epics when Kunark went live then you must have been ultra casual, or just not very good at the game. Veeshan's peak didn't take "years" to clear farm status, just a few months, tops.
You think you're being challenged, but in reality you're just spending longer doing exactly the same kind of thing (albiet less polished and generally less fun and requiring less thought). Sure, like I said, EQ1 by the time WoW had come out had seen the likes of Planes of Power, but that's because it had been out 5 years before.
But as to challenge, the raid encounters in both games are pretty much the same in terms of difficulty.
You still haven't beaten Illidan, and neither have I. The difference between us, is that you burned out racing to the end, but I had enough of that in EQ1. Everything else falls into the realm of perception and opinion. I find it incredible that people think that WoW is "easier", but if people want to believe that, nothing I say will convince them otherwise.
The hardest thing I ever did in EQ1 was pulling the rathe council back when they were fiddling with the encounter to change it from unbeatable to beateable, but to be honest that felt like I was wrestling with random FD fails - a dice roll, and dodgy net-code, and pathing mechanics more than anything else. Yes I know, using monks to split the rathe is painful, but we were "challenged" for finding hardcore bards at the time.
And apart from that EQ1 was my first MMORPG so it's always a different nostalgy feeling about things you do for the first time.
Well its been a few years and WoW is still the best by a large margin, even a year after TBC its still a top selling game.
The real horror is I hate the game but keep going back because its SOO much better than everything else. They might as well remove the rest of the games from the list on mmorpg.com since 85% of the mmo US market is WoW.
Whats next a WoW movie!?!...oh wait..
I must agree with you there pal. World of Warcraft is still the best MMO out there but i'm hopeful that newcomers like Age of Conan will satisfy me the same way that WoW did. Mind you people that i have played about fifteen different MMO's ranging from Matrix and RF Online to Final Fantasy XI and Lord of the Rings. No other game except for one competed for my attention as World of Warcraft did. That other one was Star Wars Galaxies - my first MMO passion.
The overwhelming positive feeling i have for MMOs are all thanks to these two games - SWG and then later WoW - both excellent in their own way. I have fond memories from the fall of 2006 as i was playing World of Warcraft while listening to old-time radio shows like Speed Gibson... these memories still spark happiness in me as i think about them. It's strange how deeply some things affect a person and how these memories just gets stuck and last forever.
Another good memory is when i played PvP for the first time. I have never much liked player vs player action until i tried the massive Battlegrounds of WoW. Oh my god! This was so much fun, so howcome i haven't tried this before now? I mean, i started SWG sometime back in 2003-2004 i think it was, and now two or three years later i find something new that is absolutely fantastic. Again, thanks to WoW. Also, my deep affection for crafting grew from early SWG. Today i believe that crafting is one of the cornerstones of a good MMO, it just has to be in there because so many people, just like me, love to play MMOs other than for the pure action of it.
Comments
WoW4lifer I have no hostility towards people playing a game or the obvious fact that it seems that WoW is your first is fine you haven't learned yet, but if you are saying a CD is a necessity is beyond any common sense.
IQ in WoW is actually huge. Though the average player is rare. If you were to look at the top guilds on WoW or any MMo and their guild leaders and officers you would see some of the most intelligent people you could deal with.
Now I say good day sir to your obvious ignorance.
Edit> Play any free mmorpg on DSL (In my area DSL is 15 bucks a month) Excluding the fact that the DSL is used for absolutely nothing else. Now you want to say the computer is bought for only gaming ok you got me, but anyone who strictly uses a computer for gaming and not for work, school etc.. then your looking at a diminishing returns which isn't important.
Now I also know people who will go to my Universities library and play games such as Runequest for hours between classes (They are paying for school is that adding into your MMo equation of cost?)
I also know some individuals that go back to work in the evening to play WoW as to not tie up the computer at their house (O wait they are causing no output of cost due to electricity and the computer are free). If you want to argue that the job etc takes cuts its up to you.
If you want to get down to brass tax for you to walk down the street it costs you money or tax payers money since if you get arrested for not wearing clothes. Now don't argue freegans as that is idiotic and you can't consider them people.
Another thing quality isn't game mechanics, that's personal opinion, quality is optimization, bugs, etc. In terms of quality wow is still the best mmorpg, undisputably. Now game mechanics, that's opinion. Some people like tetris some people like first person shooters. If you don't like wow then don't come to the wow message board and flame and stir trouble taht simple.
my first mmorpgs was ultima online.
Someone loved Trammel! rofl.
Which is the best MMO is almost impossible to say because it depends on too many factors including personal preferences. But 85% of the US market?! You sure? I doubt it ...
Considering wow the be the best is a statment not a fact. WOW was good, i loved wow before the BG's were added. After that the game started going down hill and i noticed the faults that blizzard had.
Let me get it straight. You are saying that paying a MMORPG subscribtion is a luxury. And buying original music CD's not, because for MMORPG you need a computer and internet connection?
What about movie DVD's. Is it also not luxury? Besides, you actually need a CD radio for the music or a computer with internet connection to buy digital mp3 from itunes for example. Those are all not luxuries? It's not a luxury to buy a computer pay network connection and buy mp3 digitally from itunes? And the movie DVD's? You need a TV and dvd player for them. This is a twisted logic.
REALITY CHECK
No It took us years to pass throught EQ1 raid content. WoW was almost finished in 3 months. There was nothing challenging that would keep us playing. Undoubtedly WoW has its own fun factor for majority, but don't try to convince me WoW is challenging in compare to other MMO's.
I don't try to convince anyone of anything around here. People are convinced that they're right and not even reason or logic will change their minds, especially with regard to WoW. I simply remove all the assumption and opinion from your arguments and strip them down to their component logical parts and reveal the falsehoods inside them. Whether or not you change your mind is beyond my control.
You erroneously claim you spent "years progressing" through EQ1 content compared to when "WoW was beaten in 3 months". EQ1 hardly had any raid content to speak of when that game went live. Plane of Sky was the first raid zone iirc and that was released shortly before to Kunark, like a year after the game went live.
Nagafen and Vox were killed within 3 months of EQ going live, simply because it was the only raid content. This was in the day before most people had even heard of a raid. There was nothing challenging about it, it was done by about 20 people who had just had the time to grind to level 50 or close to it. The game required groups, and the death penalty meant you spent far longer doing content than you do nowadays, but there was nothing more skillful about how you played it.
Raid encounters then had no twists, or surprises, or CC, or anything like that - not until Kunark (The first expansion - which you haven't seen for WoW). And it took you "years" to reach that point? If by "years of challenge", you mean, getting your epics when Kunark went live then you must have been ultra casual, or just not very good at the game. Veeshan's peak didn't take "years" to clear farm status, just a few months, tops.
You think you're being challenged, but in reality you're just spending longer doing exactly the same kind of thing (albiet less polished and generally less fun and requiring less thought). Sure, like I said, EQ1 by the time WoW had come out had seen the likes of Planes of Power, but that's because it had been out 5 years before.
But as to challenge, the raid encounters in both games are pretty much the same in terms of difficulty.
You still haven't beaten Illidan, and neither have I. The difference between us, is that you burned out racing to the end, but I had enough of that in EQ1. Everything else falls into the realm of perception and opinion. I find it incredible that people think that WoW is "easier", but if people want to believe that, nothing I say will convince them otherwise.
The hardest thing I ever did in EQ1 was pulling the rathe council back when they were fiddling with the encounter to change it from unbeatable to beateable, but to be honest that felt like I was wrestling with random FD fails - a dice roll, and dodgy net-code, and pathing mechanics more than anything else. Yes I know, using monks to split the rathe is painful, but we were "challenged" for finding hardcore bards at the time.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
And perhaps you meant to say "WoW is still the best for Me!" because it isnt the best for me.
First of all i whant to say that i am a guy who love's fairplay . Wow is a nice game , the content is good but when you come to animation , graphic it sux big time but the big problem is this : What is the point in geting the end-game gear? To do some end-game instance faster ? hmm , you can't be someone in WoW , you are just someone from Horde or Alliance and nothing more for the opposing faction. After you reach level 70 you start makeing honor for epic armors , enchants and after you are done , what's next? there is no open pvp , siege , or something ... WoW is a PvE game made for every kinder boy and the purpose was $$ my friends. Now most of wow-fanboys will start flame around stuff like "blahh you donno shit because there is open pvp and we have all " but in fact there is not , because of the BG's and all instanced pvp zone's , why where they added ? as an 10 - 12 year old kid you get mad very easy , and if all day where party's searching and destroy the hole map the little kinder's couldn't grind and of course it wouldn't be an 8 milion subs game , so to solve this problem they added BG's . Now you will say we can do that and we DO , but in fact no one does this , you all know that you win a lot more in some bg / arena then searching fields ... so my point is why should i play 1-2 years like a lunatic ? i see no point ... and btw you all know that the Horde and Alliance don't kill eachother anymore , they help eachother to do quest's , etc. So please don't claim that WoW is the best mmorpg ever because it's not , a game full of kinder kid's , a game that does not require player skill because it's full of macro's , a game that dosen't offer you not even a challange . Check Lineage 2 , you play like a lunatic for 1-2 years but in the end you can be an Alliance Leader , you can have a Castel gentelmen , you can be Hero .. only 1 player from each class has a crown and an aura + some skills , so my point is you can be someone , people can talk about you , but not in here because what is the point in haveing 8 milion ppl around me if i can't messure my power's we are all the same and all doing the same instance .. crap .. better play some Action or Rpg then this.
p.s. i am not an Lineage 2 fan or something , it was just an example , and there many out there ..
No It took us years to pass throught EQ1 raid content. WoW was almost finished in 3 months. There was nothing challenging that would keep us playing. Undoubtedly WoW has its own fun factor for majority, but don't try to convince me WoW is challenging in compare to other MMO's.
I don't try to convince anyone of anything around here. People are convinced that they're right and not even reason or logic will change their minds, especially with regard to WoW. I simply remove all the assumption and opinion from your arguments and strip them down to their component logical parts and reveal the falsehoods inside them. Whether or not you change your mind is beyond my control.
You erroneously claim you spent "years progressing" through EQ1 content compared to when "WoW was beaten in 3 months". EQ1 hardly had any raid content to speak of when that game went live. Plane of Sky was the first raid zone iirc and that was released shortly before to Kunark, like a year after the game went live.
Nagafen and Vox were killed within 3 months of EQ going live, simply because it was the only raid content. This was in the day before most people had even heard of a raid. There was nothing challenging about it, it was done by about 20 people who had just had the time to grind to level 50 or close to it. The game required groups, and the death penalty meant you spent far longer doing content than you do nowadays, but there was nothing more skillful about how you played it.
Raid encounters then had no twists, or surprises, or CC, or anything like that - not until Kunark (The first expansion - which you haven't seen for WoW). And it took you "years" to reach that point? If by "years of challenge", you mean, getting your epics when Kunark went live then you must have been ultra casual, or just not very good at the game. Veeshan's peak didn't take "years" to clear farm status, just a few months, tops.
You think you're being challenged, but in reality you're just spending longer doing exactly the same kind of thing (albiet less polished and generally less fun and requiring less thought). Sure, like I said, EQ1 by the time WoW had come out had seen the likes of Planes of Power, but that's because it had been out 5 years before.
But as to challenge, the raid encounters in both games are pretty much the same in terms of difficulty.
You still haven't beaten Illidan, and neither have I. The difference between us, is that you burned out racing to the end, but I had enough of that in EQ1. Everything else falls into the realm of perception and opinion. I find it incredible that people think that WoW is "easier", but if people want to believe that, nothing I say will convince them otherwise.
The hardest thing I ever did in EQ1 was pulling the rathe council back when they were fiddling with the encounter to change it from unbeatable to beateable, but to be honest that felt like I was wrestling with random FD fails - a dice roll, and dodgy net-code, and pathing mechanics more than anything else. Yes I know, using monks to split the rathe is painful, but we were "challenged" for finding hardcore bards at the time.
And apart from that EQ1 was my first MMORPG so it's always a different nostalgy feeling about things you do for the first time.REALITY CHECK
I must agree with you there pal. World of Warcraft is still the best MMO out there but i'm hopeful that newcomers like Age of Conan will satisfy me the same way that WoW did. Mind you people that i have played about fifteen different MMO's ranging from Matrix and RF Online to Final Fantasy XI and Lord of the Rings. No other game except for one competed for my attention as World of Warcraft did. That other one was Star Wars Galaxies - my first MMO passion.
The overwhelming positive feeling i have for MMOs are all thanks to these two games - SWG and then later WoW - both excellent in their own way. I have fond memories from the fall of 2006 as i was playing World of Warcraft while listening to old-time radio shows like Speed Gibson... these memories still spark happiness in me as i think about them. It's strange how deeply some things affect a person and how these memories just gets stuck and last forever.
Another good memory is when i played PvP for the first time. I have never much liked player vs player action until i tried the massive Battlegrounds of WoW. Oh my god! This was so much fun, so howcome i haven't tried this before now? I mean, i started SWG sometime back in 2003-2004 i think it was, and now two or three years later i find something new that is absolutely fantastic. Again, thanks to WoW. Also, my deep affection for crafting grew from early SWG. Today i believe that crafting is one of the cornerstones of a good MMO, it just has to be in there because so many people, just like me, love to play MMOs other than for the pure action of it.