Amazing Avery said, "Age of Conan's content is the backbone of the game, change it and you end up with something totally different".
This is the problem, Read the article again...the T&A is being kept (good...just like the books...let's move on!), but the game is being changed into a politically correct male/female world where even though women show off their sex, they are equal in society and in physical capabilities. Get yer pie and eat it too with Girl Power!
"End up with something totally different? How about Spice Girls Meets Conan. WAY worse than covering up tits (which would be bad as well)
For the record, I don't have a huge issue with player character women having equal abilities (still an issue), because they can still be viewed as an exception(as in the books or our own history)..,..it's the world being changed to reflect this equality which pisses on this being a viable Hyboria (or any history or viable fantasy) I have a big issue with...maybe if they kept the world alone where you just wouldn't see free women willingly exposing themselves for fear of subjugation (or worse), less Girl Power, Never Winter Nights players would join a server.
If I see NPC female guards, blacksmiths and infantrymen in this game, I'm not purchasing and will just have to dig up some old books and forget the idea that any designer will make a game without worrying about alienating markets
(but if you read this article again, it seems the skinny mountain dew boys who designed it really believe that it was the 1930's that made the books the way they are and that somehow women were not truly subjugated or physically weaker in history---However, an argument can be made that the average woman is stronger than the average 2007 male game designer).
I wouldn't say that non player female NPCs are 100% on equal footing when every port town has a whore district and even female players start out being sex slaved tied up to the mast for the slave-drivers to pleasure themselves on.
I'm sure they will have some females being on equal footing, simply because you cannot make women like they were in the books 100% without loosing even more female players lol, not to mention getting womens rights groups up your arse. But to think they ALL will, is IMHO a gross simplification, and wrong.
Oh, and I'm sure the developers realize that it wasn't the books that made women subjegated(sp) and weaker, but of course actual history and the view of women itself in the time of the writings.
First off, congrats on being one of a few discussing the article
1st paragraph: You watch, that opening scene will only make a reasonable person assume that that is what would happen to her and they won't hint anything...The whore houses will be filled with strong, independent, self employed contractor types and they have already indicated that there will be plenty female fighter type NPC's. 50/50 like Never Winter Nights or 20/80 like Oblivion? Who knows?
2nd paragraph: I agree that they are doing it to attract more girls but would prefer the honesty of them saying it's to appeal to everyone---but that would be admitting that they are making this anything but Hyboria...not very brutal and the kind of female PC that would like this to be candy assed wouldn't read those books (imagine a modern game that could attract a following without market pandering...you would like it better....wouldn't you? Surely enough people would appreciate the honesty and make the purchase). Taking out the silly notion of women of Hyboria being on equal footing in strength and society doesn't equate to showing them getting raped after every town is sacked...women's groups wouldn't be anymore upset than they already will be by the boobies
3rd paragraph: The time of the writing's has nothing to do with it. Were western women relatively on lessor footing more so in the 30's than they are now? Yes, but way more so in the history that Howard's stories borrow from. The appeal that these designers are making is that historically based stories must be dishonest to reflect current social norms or that somehow 2007 political correctness better reflects ancient history than do the 30's writers..it's fallacy that doesn't hold up and it's chicken shit.
(I could be wrong, they may be unknowing contradictory idiots)
I don't see how you disagree with much of what I'm saying other than you believe they will keep the world more to reality than I do. In response to that, I'll point you back to my comment on whether it'll be 20/80 or 50/50 female NPC split...I don't know either, but since we can go on what the Designers are saying in this article, I'd have to assume it's what they're saying --even if they're being dishonest about why.
Maybe I should ask you what you think they meant by this article and references to the games "view" vs the 1930's "view" of the original lore? (funny, that! the 1930's "view" IS the original lore).
It's not brutal appealing to girls who may be offended at the idea of an unequally opportunity world...it makes the violence stupid and --to borrow your great example--very Sin City when the world isn't plausible (this usually begs the magic and demons argument...).
So if only 4 percent will play, why do you think they will lose considerable profit?
No stories were set in Cimmeria, but Conan did say that the women of his land were tougher than the men of (forget where he said). I disagree with your absolutist reason for Celtic Roman resistance, but do understand that Celtic women played roles that were different to what other period women did in Europe...but it was still first women and beer which was taken after raids and however close Howard WOULD have written stories in Cimmeria to reflect Ireland, it sure as hell wouldn't be Never Winter Nights
edit: I apologize, I just realized you said, "one of the reasons..." .
It's always hilarious listening to guys with an extra Y chromosome discuss what women and/or women gamers will like, think , do, read, enjoy or be offended by. (Even if it does cut into all that time I spend watching Little Mermaid reruns and playing with my Barbies.) Thanks heavens the most entertaining don't represent a healthy cross section of their gender, or the 2 sexes would never maintain contact long enough to reproduce. Would the last XX on this thread please turn out the light and shut the door when you leave? Ooops. Looks as if that might be me......... Click.
And it's allways sad to see someone overcome by emotion miss the point entirely and level critique that she isn't used to having handed back to her.
I will speak for myself when I point out what should be obvious...I wasn't talking about what women would like in a game. ...THE DESIGNERS WERE
Maybe then you should level your misdirected emotions at them and ask them why they need to change the ancient earth based world so close to the one you live in. Maybe you needn't be patronised into joining this "brutal" game and if you don't, you should be angry, but not at me
If you do need it, please understand that I believe women are stronger than men, There is no useful purpose to having a penis, the WNBA is better than the NBA and this game will be much better by eliminating the mytholigal assumptions that women by and large were subservient throughout history. So all these horrible books must be edited and reprinted 'til they look like Robert Jordan or Judy Blume authored them
(I do believe that enlightenment would include treating all peoples, women and men with equal dignity and empathy, but it's f'n silly to have to make this disclaimer during an adult conversation which has nothing to do with this understanding)
Be glad men are responding to this at all. If not, you would have the world woman live under in Taliban. The sign that I see when men take the 'torch' so to speak, is that all the work the feminists have done over the years actually had an impact.
Anyway, I hope AoC will be a great game, but knowing FC through AO uuhh..They got great ideas sometimes, but poor ability to put them to work. And they really need to get better at the whole developer/subscriber dialogue. Allthough, to be fair, they had gotten alot better at the whole customer thing when Silirrion took over the reins. And Im talking about AO(forums, ingame) now and not AoC. The dialogue concerning AoC always been good to my impression.
I think you should do a little more research before you make these assertions and call them common knowledge.
The Aquitanian language was spoken in ancient Aquitaine (approximately between the Pyrenees and the Garonne, the region later known as Gascony) before the Roman conquest and, probably much later, until the Early Middle Ages.
Comments
Amazing Avery said, "Age of Conan's content is the backbone of the game, change it and you end up with something totally different".
This is the problem, Read the article again...the T&A is being kept (good...just like the books...let's move on!), but the game is being changed into a politically correct male/female world where even though women show off their sex, they are equal in society and in physical capabilities. Get yer pie and eat it too with Girl Power!
"End up with something totally different? How about Spice Girls Meets Conan. WAY worse than covering up tits (which would be bad as well)
For the record, I don't have a huge issue with player character women having equal abilities (still an issue), because they can still be viewed as an exception(as in the books or our own history)..,..it's the world being changed to reflect this equality which pisses on this being a viable Hyboria (or any history or viable fantasy) I have a big issue with...maybe if they kept the world alone where you just wouldn't see free women willingly exposing themselves for fear of subjugation (or worse), less Girl Power, Never Winter Nights players would join a server.
If I see NPC female guards, blacksmiths and infantrymen in this game, I'm not purchasing and will just have to dig up some old books and forget the idea that any designer will make a game without worrying about alienating markets
(but if you read this article again, it seems the skinny mountain dew boys who designed it really believe that it was the 1930's that made the books the way they are and that somehow women were not truly subjugated or physically weaker in history---However, an argument can be made that the average woman is stronger than the average 2007 male game designer).
First off, congrats on being one of a few discussing the article
1st paragraph: You watch, that opening scene will only make a reasonable person assume that that is what would happen to her and they won't hint anything...The whore houses will be filled with strong, independent, self employed contractor types and they have already indicated that there will be plenty female fighter type NPC's. 50/50 like Never Winter Nights or 20/80 like Oblivion? Who knows?
2nd paragraph: I agree that they are doing it to attract more girls but would prefer the honesty of them saying it's to appeal to everyone---but that would be admitting that they are making this anything but Hyboria...not very brutal and the kind of female PC that would like this to be candy assed wouldn't read those books (imagine a modern game that could attract a following without market pandering...you would like it better....wouldn't you? Surely enough people would appreciate the honesty and make the purchase). Taking out the silly notion of women of Hyboria being on equal footing in strength and society doesn't equate to showing them getting raped after every town is sacked...women's groups wouldn't be anymore upset than they already will be by the boobies
3rd paragraph: The time of the writing's has nothing to do with it. Were western women relatively on lessor footing more so in the 30's than they are now? Yes, but way more so in the history that Howard's stories borrow from. The appeal that these designers are making is that historically based stories must be dishonest to reflect current social norms or that somehow 2007 political correctness better reflects ancient history than do the 30's writers..it's fallacy that doesn't hold up and it's chicken shit.
(I could be wrong, they may be unknowing contradictory idiots)
I don't see how you disagree with much of what I'm saying other than you believe they will keep the world more to reality than I do. In response to that, I'll point you back to my comment on whether it'll be 20/80 or 50/50 female NPC split...I don't know either, but since we can go on what the Designers are saying in this article, I'd have to assume it's what they're saying --even if they're being dishonest about why.
Maybe I should ask you what you think they meant by this article and references to the games "view" vs the 1930's "view" of the original lore? (funny, that! the 1930's "view" IS the original lore).
It's not brutal appealing to girls who may be offended at the idea of an unequally opportunity world...it makes the violence stupid and --to borrow your great example--very Sin City when the world isn't plausible (this usually begs the magic and demons argument...).
So if only 4 percent will play, why do you think they will lose considerable profit?
No stories were set in Cimmeria, but Conan did say that the women of his land were tougher than the men of (forget where he said). I disagree with your absolutist reason for Celtic Roman resistance, but do understand that Celtic women played roles that were different to what other period women did in Europe...but it was still first women and beer which was taken after raids and however close Howard WOULD have written stories in Cimmeria to reflect Ireland, it sure as hell wouldn't be Never Winter Nights
edit: I apologize, I just realized you said, "one of the reasons..." .
It's always hilarious listening to guys with an extra Y chromosome discuss what women and/or women gamers will like, think , do, read, enjoy or be offended by. (Even if it does cut into all that time I spend watching Little Mermaid reruns and playing with my Barbies.) Thanks heavens the most entertaining don't represent a healthy cross section of their gender, or the 2 sexes would never maintain contact long enough to reproduce. Would the last XX on this thread please turn out the light and shut the door when you leave? Ooops. Looks as if that might be me......... Click.
And it's allways sad to see someone overcome by emotion miss the point entirely and level critique that she isn't used to having handed back to her.
I will speak for myself when I point out what should be obvious...I wasn't talking about what women would like in a game. ...THE DESIGNERS WERE
Maybe then you should level your misdirected emotions at them and ask them why they need to change the ancient earth based world so close to the one you live in. Maybe you needn't be patronised into joining this "brutal" game and if you don't, you should be angry, but not at me
If you do need it, please understand that I believe women are stronger than men, There is no useful purpose to having a penis, the WNBA is better than the NBA and this game will be much better by eliminating the mytholigal assumptions that women by and large were subservient throughout history. So all these horrible books must be edited and reprinted 'til they look like Robert Jordan or Judy Blume authored them
(I do believe that enlightenment would include treating all peoples, women and men with equal dignity and empathy, but it's f'n silly to have to make this disclaimer during an adult conversation which has nothing to do with this understanding)
xxyyxxyyxxyy
How do you know the Cimmerians are heavily based upon the Celts? I would have guessed the Cimmerians
were based on the real Cimmerians that existed around the 7th and 8th century. dunno maby thats just me
Be glad men are responding to this at all. If not, you would have the world woman live under in Taliban. The sign that I see when men take the 'torch' so to speak, is that all the work the feminists have done over the years actually had an impact.
Anyway, I hope AoC will be a great game, but knowing FC through AO uuhh..They got great ideas sometimes, but poor ability to put them to work. And they really need to get better at the whole developer/subscriber dialogue. Allthough, to be fair, they had gotten alot better at the whole customer thing when Silirrion took over the reins. And Im talking about AO(forums, ingame) now and not AoC. The dialogue concerning AoC always been good to my impression.
...damn all those typos.
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Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
I think you should do a little more research before you make these assertions and call them common knowledge.
The Aquitanian language was spoken in ancient Aquitaine (approximately between the Pyrenees and the Garonne, the region later known as Gascony) before the Roman conquest and, probably much later, until the Early Middle Ages.
The Cimmerians (Greek: Κιμμ?ριοι, Kimmerioi) were ancient equestrian nomads who, according to Herodotus, originally inhabited the region north of the Caucasus and the Black Sea, in what is now Russia and Ukraine, in the 8th and 7th century BC.
Hehe.
1st of all, he said they where based on different races throughout history. He didnt say they where based on the actual races the names come from.
2nd. The day I take anything that Wikipedia says for granted is the day I shot myself.
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Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
For Interests sakes:
Europe Overlayed on Hyboria:
And a Culture Map:
..