When it was $5 to try it out yes that was a good idea, give it a try for a week.
Well, there's two things I can say here. First, maybe $50 isn't a big deal to you because you've a job and make a fair amount of money, so $5 or $50 it isn't a big difference. Second, for the rest of us we can try ot network some Buddy Codes. I'm not sure if TR has buddy codes, but it's pretty standard procedure of NCSoft to include them in their retail boxes. (We're all playing our pre-order boxes right now.)
There are going to be plenty of unhappy people in the first 6 months of this game because they ran out and bought it based on hype only to find out it is shallow as a kiddie pool and wears thin in just a few hours of play.
What else is new? Welcome to 95% of the games in the video gaming consumer's world. Tabula Rasa isn't like this for me, I'm still enraptured in it after 16 hours of play with no end in sight, but your milage may vary.
I want to thank you for your posts on TR because everytime I read someones "personal rant" there is a comment that always brings it back on track and closer to reality. I had mixed feelings on TR based on the many negative rants from the posters here on MMORPG.com - this was a bad idea.
I believe as it's said over and over, you need to approach TR with an open mind and understanding that its different, as i's been said by the devs - they wanted to try something a bit different. So I am signing up on the Pre-Order, and going to approach the game as such. I may have wasted money before on far worse, and in the end at least I know how I should approach TR, and what I should expect.
To geldonyetich I want to thank you for your posts on TR because everytime I read someones "personal rant" there is a comment that always brings it back on track and closer to reality. I had mixed feelings on TR based on the many negative rants from the posters here on MMORPG.com - this was a bad idea. I believe as it's said over and over, you need to approach TR with an open mind and understanding that its different, as i's been said by the devs - they wanted to try something a bit different. So I am signing up on the Pre-Order, and going to approach the game as such. I may have wasted money before on far worse, and in the end at least I know how I should approach TR, and what I should expect. Thanks again.
Thats the problem everyone has with the game, its NOT different. There is nothing different or new.
It had the same, go here, kill x, return quests.
It has the same, kill these enemies over and over again, level, and get skill points, that you can spend to make your very small list off skills better.
People are approaching TR as an MMO, and as an MMO, it does a pretty crap job.
If they shounldn't be approaching it as an MMO, then they shouldn't be charging the same as an MMO.
Nitefly's right - this is something you have to form your opinion about yourself.
I completely agree. But I'm not willing to recommend that people spend $50 to trial a game, any game.
I think it speaks volumes that there is no free trial version of TR available--yes I know the game doesn't go live for 2 days, but there will be no free trial, just watch. But I'm not surprised since I beta tested the game since June and the devs know that the majority of the people who trial played TR would not stick around to buy it. As a matter of fact, TR is so shallow on content that I can get a char to max level in a 10 day free trial.
You watch and see, like Vanguard, TR will not have a free trial for many months. NCSoft is counting on the income from the people willing to pay $50 to trial TR.
In all fairness, extremely few of big-name MMORPGs offer free trial accounts immediately at release. (Let alone during the 3-day head start which it is right now.) Can anyone recall one that did?
There might be a very practical reason behind this: They don't want to congest the lower content areas with a glut of free-play players until the people who actually bought the box have moved on.
It's a harsh reality that you often get what you pay for and when the price is nothing so is what you're entitled to. If Tabula Rasa offers buddy keys in the retail box, which seems to be relatively standard PlayNC procedure, it's going further than most MMORPGs have within the first 6 months after release.
Reading your post history, you're really, really hung up on that 7/26 patch, Indiramourn. You should probably stay out of betas if you're going to get hooked to balances that were never meant to be. At least seriously try the game some time within the last 3 before damning it forever. I can tell you that I've been feeling a lot of comradery and not at all offended over apparent kill stealing in the pre-order head start.
lets face it, they are looking to make money from the gullible suckers who are willing to fork out 50 bucks for the box and 15 bucks a month on the strength of artwork and garriott's name
the game itself isn't going to be worth anything close to that amount for at least 6 months, possibly longer.
it's too shallow, too lightweight, and utlimatly, too damned boring in its current state and simply not worth the asking price
Same for everybody else. If you start thinking that your own 100% subjective opinion given in the complete and utter anonymity of the internet without knowledge of the gaming experience, relative preferences, and insight of your recipient (in this case, other forum posters) is of any interest or value, you're a fool.
Since you state that all opinions are valueless, could you kindly explain your need to post three replies to the topic ?
I'd venture someone is not being truthful about how important he thinks his opinions are or he would have felt no need to post.
But now that we have peeled away the veneer of self importance, let's get back on topic and discuss why this pathetic shell of a game should crash and burn to send a 100 million dollar message to the gaming industry about wasting money on hype and the perceived fame of pajama wearing self important little developer gods like Richard Garriott.
Save the insults and psych 101 insights into the human condition, let's hear what you have to say about how great this game is and why people shouldn't avoid it like the plague.
Once more for those who read what they think is there instead of what is really there:
Opinions are fine. I hope everybody forms one on any given subject. Reviews are also fine as long as the reader knows your preferences, your gaming history, what you have liked before, what you're currently playing, your gaming method (how often do you play, for how long a time and so on) and they are written in a relatively sober and subjective (meaningful) tone.
To state that a game is as shallow as a kid's play pool is a colorful statement but it is also completely without value to any reader. Shallow in what way and compared to what game?
This is the point I'm making: If you want to simply throw dirt or fan-boi praise, be prepared to be considered background noise; it is there all the time but effectively useless to anybody.
And to the poster who said that this site is primarily personal opinions (and therefore by definition irrelevant and meaningless to anybody but themselves, hence the "personal" part); couldn't it be nice if they were just removed from the site, leaving only information and questions/answers to be found here?
I don't see any way you can relate TR to the ET game, other than the fact that they are both games.
ET was written, designed, and programmed by a very, very small team with literally no idea what to do for even the main concept. Development was rushed by Atari, so the game was entirely garbage upon release (there was what, 1 month to make the game and ship it?)
If anything, the only MMORPG failure that closely relates to ET would be Vanguard. "The legendary genius of EQ designed this masterpiece, oOOOoOoOoOoooOO" and it dropped like a rock.
Besides, the "video game crash" affected only the USA (and some of Japan and England) because there was no ESRB to rate the content of games, and critics couldn't get a copy of the game or see any footage of it until it was finished. So people would rush out to buy the latest game, only to find out for themselves that it was bad, and the critics released that information to the masses so retailers that had purchased thousands of copies sent them back to the publishers.
You'll notice that Game Stop doesn't carry a huge selection of computer games, and what they carry is the most popular. There are no Lemonade Tycoon, Barbie Adventure, or Dora the Explorer PC games for sale in the store. Why? The content was deemed suitable for smaller children, and Game Stop appeals to the core gamer, not children. In the 80's, they'd be selling anything and everything the publishers throw at them because they sometimes wouldn't even know the game's title until launch.
ET made people question the content of video games, so they stopped buying them...
... until Nintendo introduced the Famicom to the US and saved the day.
Why did people buy games for the Famicom? They weren't entirely different from the older games, but because Nintendo had an "official seal of quality" and made sure that critics reviewed them before publishing, it was a success.
What if Nintendo didn't make that risk? Who knows? Sure enough, someone else would have stepped up to the plate eventually. The industry only struggled because people didn't trust the content of the games they were buying. Nintendo made the first step, and the ESRB in 1993 took it the rest of the way. Although I hate what it's become, and for the true purpose it was formed by Lieberman; it still informs people better than any previous rating system.
Anyway...
Your comparison of Tabula Rasa, a game with obviously a lot of criticism and hard work in development, with ET, a game with no criticism prior to release and a rushed development schedule, is totally flawed.
Also, Richard Garriot's name really has nothing to do with the selling point of the game, since frankly, myself and many others had no idea he even existed until this game's title was announced. All I can say to his ego is, "Good for you, Mr. Garriot, you got your name on a box."
Tabula Rasa is not a bad game. It is not a perfect game, either. If anything, like most of NC Soft's other games, it will maintain a steady level of income and popularity, but still be hated and loved equally. Regardless of your opinions, the game will still appeal to some.
Same for everybody else. If you start thinking that your own 100% subjective opinion given in the complete and utter anonymity of the internet without knowledge of the gaming experience, relative preferences, and insight of your recipient (in this case, other forum posters) is of any interest or value, you're a fool.
Since you state that all opinions are valueless, could you kindly explain your need to post three replies to the topic ?
I'd venture someone is not being truthful about how important he thinks his opinions are or he would have felt no need to post.
But now that we have peeled away the veneer of self importance, let's get back on topic and discuss why this pathetic shell of a game should crash and burn to send a 100 million dollar message to the gaming industry about wasting money on hype and the perceived fame of pajama wearing self important little developer gods like Richard Garriott.
Save the insults and psych 101 insights into the human condition, let's hear what you have to say about how great this game is and why people shouldn't avoid it like the plague.
Once more for those who read what they think is there instead of what is really there:
Opinions are fine. I hope everybody forms one on any given subject. Reviews are also fine as long as the reader knows your preferences, your gaming history, what you have liked before, what you're currently playing, your gaming method (how often do you play, for how long a time and so on) and they are written in a relatively sober and subjective (meaningful) tone.
To state that a game is as shallow as a kid's play pool is a colorful statement but it is also completely without value to any reader. Shallow in what way and compared to what game?
This is the point I'm making: If you want to simply throw dirt or fan-boi praise, be prepared to be considered background noise; it is there all the time but effectively useless to anybody.
And to the poster who said that this site is primarily personal opinions (and therefore by definition irrelevant and meaningless to anybody but themselves, hence the "personal" part); couldn't it be nice if they were just removed from the site, leaving only information and questions/answers to be found here?
Instead of babbling tripe from your text books, why don't you try saying sometyhing about the crappy game ?
It is because the game doesn't have any decent points that you can discuss ?
C'mon big man, you're so intelligent and educated why don't you write up a big wordy diatribe about how awesome this game is and how wonderful the repetitive gameplay, childish story and fedex quests are...
All you naysayers are in for a big surprise. QQ all you like, you are giving nothing to this community and wasting so many people's time.
Ohh, and OP, SWG is where you shoudl be posting this load of smack. That is the game that singlehandedly destroyed an established community, has shown very low to zero follow through by the devs..the list goes on and on....and yet....even it has managed to keep the doors open...and you think TR is going to close up shop within a year?
au contraire - I'm giving my opinions as to its worthiness (it isn't worth the price they are asking, not for the box, and definately not for the subscription). Just because you don't agree doesn't mean a hill of beans, if anything, the unrepentant fanbois are worse.
as for the wasting of people's time - have I held a gun to anyone's head and forced them to read any of my posts? no. argument is invalid
SWG? never played it, never will
and yes, unless they radically revamp the gameplay, fix the balance issues, develop a skill tree that actually bears fruit, and sort out a host of other shallowness, I can't see it surviving.
which is really too bad, I had high hopes for this game, hopes that were initially justified, then slowly and inexoribly dashed against the rocky shores of Suck since June.
enjoy yourself, have fun for the next 4 weeks till you hit lvl50, and continue paying your 15 bucks a month in pay-to-play open beta. I'll take another look in 6 months to see if it has improved at all, but by then AoC and WAR will be out. As it is, there are enouh other games far more worthy of purchasing either on the market, or immanent, that blow this pseudo mmo out of the water (and pseudo it certainly is - it's more a third-person POV shoot-em-up with chat than a true mmo)
anyway - in 6 months, provided development continues, it *might* be worth the price on the box and the sbscription fee - it certainly isn't worth it right now
Classic. Your opinion is based on limited time in a beta AND you have no game experience in games that are KNOWN for having problems and you think your opinion is worth more than mine? You are just trolling now. You have shown nothing to lead anyone here to believe that your open is worth the 01 it took to post. TR is doing well and growing even now as we head into the launch. In fact, it's launch is going better than any other launch I have seen and that is a good many of them.
To geldonyetich I want to thank you for your posts on TR because everytime I read someones "personal rant" there is a comment that always brings it back on track and closer to reality. I had mixed feelings on TR based on the many negative rants from the posters here on MMORPG.com - this was a bad idea. I believe as it's said over and over, you need to approach TR with an open mind and understanding that its different, as i's been said by the devs - they wanted to try something a bit different. So I am signing up on the Pre-Order, and going to approach the game as such. I may have wasted money before on far worse, and in the end at least I know how I should approach TR, and what I should expect. Thanks again.
Thats the problem everyone has with the game, its NOT different. There is nothing different or new.
It had the same, go here, kill x, return quests.
It has the same, kill these enemies over and over again, level, and get skill points, that you can spend to make your very small list off skills better.
People are approaching TR as an MMO, and as an MMO, it does a pretty crap job.
If they shounldn't be approaching it as an MMO, then they shouldn't be charging the same as an MMO.
Are you sure you have the right game? 'Cause I have done some quests in this game that I have never seen in any other game and I have yet to play a game that has the same energy in combat and feel of war. Are there issues, sure. It's a new game so they are goign to exist, but tall this QQing about it not being any different leads me to wonder just what game you are playing. It's certainly not the one I have been playing nightly for weeks now.
Quite the gathering of Trolls we have in this particular thread.
You know, there used to be a time when the general opinion of the posters on this site would actually influence weather or not I tried a game.
Glad those days are over.
So many times, the "desperately" negative posts and reviews by the trolls here have been completely off-base and incorrect. They have this tendancy to take even the best games, find a few things to dislike, and then blow these things out of proportion until the game sounds like a poorly-coded piece of trash.
So many times, these are REALLY good games.
What I see on this TR forum is people being negative, for the sake of being negative. I see people who have created accounts specifically for the purpose of bashing this particular game. Pathetic.
If you don't like it...post why, and move on. Go play the game you DO like, and post constructive topics in THEIR forums.
If you are capable of liking anything at all. I sometimes wonder...
Quite the gathering of Trolls we have in this particular thread. You know, there used to be a time when the general opinion of the posters on this site would actually influence weather or not I tried a game. Glad those days are over. So many times, the "desperately" negative posts and reviews by the trolls here have been completely off-base and incorrect. They have this tendancy to take even the best games, find a few things to dislike, and then blow these things out of proportion until the game sounds like a poorly-coded piece of trash. So many times, these are REALLY good games. What I see on this TR forum is people being negative, for the sake of being negative. I see people who have created accounts specifically for the purpose of bashing this particular game. Pathetic. If you don't like it...post why, and move on. Go play the game you DO like, and post constructive topics in THEIR forums. If you are capable of liking anything at all. I sometimes wonder...
Given the fact that your post has absolutely nothing about the game, should you now be added to this list of trolls that upset you so much ?
Seems like some of you are busy being worried about other people's opinions as opposed to offering commentary on the game in question.
How about commenting on the game, there are general forums that you can make your, unrelated to Tabula Rasa, complaints in.
Quite the gathering of Trolls we have in this particular thread. You know, there used to be a time when the general opinion of the posters on this site would actually influence weather or not I tried a game. Glad those days are over. So many times, the "desperately" negative posts and reviews by the trolls here have been completely off-base and incorrect. They have this tendancy to take even the best games, find a few things to dislike, and then blow these things out of proportion until the game sounds like a poorly-coded piece of trash. So many times, these are REALLY good games. What I see on this TR forum is people being negative, for the sake of being negative. I see people who have created accounts specifically for the purpose of bashing this particular game. Pathetic. If you don't like it...post why, and move on. Go play the game you DO like, and post constructive topics in THEIR forums. If you are capable of liking anything at all. I sometimes wonder...
Given the fact that your post has absolutely nothing about the game, should you now be added to this list of trolls that upset you so much ?
Seems like some of you are busy being worried about other people's opinions as opposed to offering commentary on the game in question.
How about commenting on the game, there are general forums that you can make your, unrelated to Tabula Rasa, complaints in.
Actually, I've commented on the game quite a few times over the last few months. I've also commented on many other games.
My last post in this site commented on the site in general, and in particular, posters like you. I don't need you to tell me what I wrote...I know, I wrote it.
I'm not "worried" about your opinion. You are entitled to it. What bothers me is when people feel compelled to respond to every single positive post with the same negative retorts and pulpit pounding over and over again. It seems that you, in fact, are "worried" about other people's opinions...specifically those who enjoy the game.
You have personally stated that you "want the game to fail". Well, posting the same negative retorts to every positive comment is not going to make it happen, sorry to say. It just makes the forums on this site that much less credible, and enjoyable to read, with trolls spouting the same nonsense over and over again.
EDIT: I just took a look at your profile. Since your account creation on October 1st 2007, EVERY post you have made has been a negative comment in the TR forum. Illustrating my point above, and furthering my disgust.
Wont really matter, once Spellborn is released, its going to leave many MMOs a ghost town, and prolly put alot in Development out of business. Its a cut throat market, and if a game takes all that money and time to develope it should at least be as good as an average single player game.
It used to be an excuse for MMOs to get released incomplete and with much simpler mechanics for the added bonus of being able to play Massively in an open world with thousands of other players. We compromised alot of gameplay for that. Its been over a decade, we're tired of compromising gameplay for Massivity. We dont have to anymore. Spellborn shows this, AoC might show it. AEON, maybe.. TR totally doesnt and stagnates in Mundane mediocrity. Its generic all the way. We want more, we expect it, and we wont keep the old junk. There's all kinds of new tech to appreciate out there. The gaming market is Booming. Bioware sure was bought up by EA, for 860 Million! thats alot. EA can afford it because the market kicks ass. Crytek gets bought by Microsoft.. so what. If the games are great. Its for the best. We aren't FORCED to buy crappy games, if one huge corporation pumps out generic crap, like SOE and NCSOFT, then we ignore them and go elsewhere. They get a horrible reputation, and thats that. Free Market baby! It always rules. We make the choices, we make the rules, we spend the money or hold it back. TR will fail, sadly for Richard Gariote who was a hero of mine, but then he lost his creative edge a long time ago, and cant refine and polish his developer design concepts to keep up or push forward technology. Hes like an old 80s heavy Metal band whos still playing the old 80s Heavy Metal espowsing how much THEY ROCK!
Bring back Liberty, Freedom, & The Constition. Save America from Corporatism. -RonPaul2008
Actually, I've commented on the game quite a few times over the last few months. I've also commented on many other games.
That's really great for you, but in what way is that relevant to the current discussion regarding the fact that, now, both of your pointless posts in this forum have absolutely nothing to do with the game Tabula Rasa ?
My last post in this site commented on the site in general, and in particular, posters like you. I don't need you to tell me what I wrote...I know, I wrote it.
Maybe you should put it in the general forum where it belongs then. Your self important diatribe is nothing more than trolling.
Comment on the game and save your churlish personal attacks.
I'm not "worried" about your opinion. You are entitled to it. What bothers me is when people feel compelled to respond to every single positive post with the same negative retorts and pulpit pounding over and over again.
Like I said, it's wonderful that you feel compelled to halt all the terrible injustices in the universe, but it should be posted in the general forum and not in a game specific forum.
Comprende' ?
It seems that you, in fact, are "worried" about other people's opinions...specifically those who enjoy the game.
Sorry, that's BS, when I ask people to explain "radical changes" and "awesome gameplay" and "the amazing story" I expect them to defend their positions.
Blind faith is what is wrong with a big part of this planet.
You have personally stated that you "want the game to fail". Well, posting the same negative retorts to every positive comment is not going to make it happen, sorry to say. It just makes the forums on this site that much less credible, and enjoyable to read, with trolls spouting the same nonsense over and over again.
That is what the ignore feature is for.
Stop trying to dictate, ignore if you need to but don't try to tell me what I should or shouldn't post.
Who do you think you are ?
EDIT: I just took a look at your profile. Since your account creation on October 1st 2007, EVERY post you have made has been a negative comment in the TR forum. Illustrating my point above, and furthering my disgust.
As if your disgust has any meaning, at all.
Comment on the game, I have no intention of feeding your little ego by replying to any more of your trolling.
If you can't comment on the game, then take your whining to the general comments section where it belongs.
Actually, I've commented on the game quite a few times over the last few months. I've also commented on many other games.
That's really great for you, but in what way is that relevant to the current discussion regarding the fact that, now, both of your pointless posts in this forum have absolutely nothing to do with the game Tabula Rasa ?
No worse than half of your threads turning positive conversations into flame wars. Granted, you are not alone in this.
My last post in this site commented on the site in general, and in particular, posters like you. I don't need you to tell me what I wrote...I know, I wrote it.
Maybe you should put it in the general forum where it belongs then.
Your self important diatribe is nothing more than trolling.
Comment on the game and save your churlish personal attacks.
If people repeatedly wrote post after post in the general forums bashing good games for no particular reason other than their own personal grudge (or whatever) then I would.
why should anyone bother to comment on the game, when you or one of your troll-mates will simply insult them, and their opinion, before spouting yet more negativity?
I'm not "worried" about your opinion. You are entitled to it. What bothers me is when people feel compelled to respond to every single positive post with the same negative retorts and pulpit pounding over and over again.
Like I said, it's wonderful that you feel compelled to halt all the terrible injustices in the universe, but it should be posted in the general forum and not in a game specific forum.
Comprende' ?
This is a conversation about Tabula Rasa. I'm defending the game in general from unnecessary negative ranting. It leaves a bad impression on those who read those boards. People should be able to read through the TR forums without having to wade through post after post of your personal campaign. (and others like you)
It seems that you, in fact, are "worried" about other people's opinions...specifically those who enjoy the game.
Sorry, that's BS, when I ask people to explain "radical changes" and "awesome gameplay" and "the amazing story" I expect them to defend their positions.
Blind faith is what is wrong with a big part of this planet.
People should be able to post positive opinions in this forum without having to "defend" themselves from people like you.
Single-minded hate is a bigger problem than faith will ever be.
You have personally stated that you "want the game to fail". Well, posting the same negative retorts to every positive comment is not going to make it happen, sorry to say. It just makes the forums on this site that much less credible, and enjoyable to read, with trolls spouting the same nonsense over and over again.
That is what the ignore feature is for.
Stop trying to dictate, ignore if you need to but don't try to tell me what I should or shouldn't post.
Who do you think you are ?
Then feel free to ignore ME. Stop trying to tell others that they are wrong when they post THEIR opinions, simply because they happen to like the game.
EDIT: I just took a look at your profile. Since your account creation on October 1st 2007, EVERY post you have made has been a negative comment in the TR forum. Illustrating my point above, and furthering my disgust.
As if your disgust has any meaning, at all.
Comment on the game, I have no intention of feeding your little ego by replying to any more of your trolling.
If you can't comment on the game, then take your whining to the general comments section where it belongs.
And that just sounds weak and defensive. How does it feel to be on the other side of the attack? This is how you've been making people feel when they come here to post a positive opinion of this game, and you feel the need to belittle them.
No, I do not think TR is the 'ET" of the new millenium. Time will tell, I guess, and a large factor in the game's future will be weather the DEVS can keep their promises of interesting content additions. But this isn't SOE we're talking about. They may actually care enough about this game to follow through.
Yo, warghoul: you spell it 'whether'. Weather is a different animal alltogether.
Also, the game now is completely different from what was in closed beta 'a few months back'. A lot of us from CLOSED beta think that the fun factor has been sucked out since then.
Yo, warghoul: you spell it 'whether'. Weather is a different animal alltogether. Also, the game now is completely different from what was in closed beta 'a few months back'. A lot of us from CLOSED beta think that the fun factor has been sucked out since then. Linna
/agreed
the game has gone massively downhill since June, it has changed dramatically and not in good ways
it might be alright in 6 months, but right now it's not worth the asking price
If the fanboiz want to throw their money away on an unfinished product, more power to them. Personally I refuse to waste my money.
better keep my dictionary handy when I'm posting late at night after a long session of gaming, so I don't mis-spell anything
Personally, I don't think I've logged into the game since...September 20th or so. Got caught up in a couple other games. My attention span is pretty small when it comes to MMOs these days, since I'm still looking for something with the depth of old SWG or AO.
TR seemed to be a pretty good game. I had a lot of fun. And in about 6 months I'll probably check it out again.
I have a personal policy anyway, since beta testing MxO....never subscribe to an MMO at release...give it half a year or so to become polished. I never expect any MMO to be polished at release.
Calling TR "crap" because it's not an exception to that rule doesn't make sense to me.
If it's not as polished as some feel it should be at release, it's the INDUSTRY that's to blame. PC game publishers in particular have this terrible tendancy to "release now, patch later." They seem to think that because it's easy to download and apply updates on a PC, that it's an excuse to release unfinished software, so they can start making money on it as soon as possible. This doesn't mean the games are bad...it means the publisher (and I say this because it IS almost always the publisher who rushes things out) is.
More companies need to adopt Id Software's policy. They don't set release dates...in stead they've always said that their latest game will be released "When it's done".
If it's not as polished as some feel it should be at release, it's the INDUSTRY that's to blame.
I would share the blame equally between the industry wanting to roll unfinished offerings out the door early, AND the audience that happily accepts their under-cooked offerings. If everyone simply refused to buy into the propaganda and hype regarding what *might* be added to the game down the line, then more companies in the gaming industry would do what Id does ant simply not release until the game is actually ready.
too bad there are so many people out there willing to allow the industry to behave in such a poor manner by supporting pay-to-beta released-to-early games
If it's not as polished as some feel it should be at release, it's the INDUSTRY that's to blame.
I would share the blame equally between the industry wanting to roll unfinished offerings out the door early, AND the audience that happily accepts their under-cooked offerings. If everyone simply refused to buy into the propaganda and hype regarding what *might* be added to the game down the line, then more companies in the gaming industry would do what Id does ant simply not release until the game is actually ready.
too bad there are so many people out there willing to allow the industry to behave in such a poor manner by supporting pay-to-beta released-to-early games
Well, I can only speak for myself but for me it's not like that at all. I would not pay a fee in hopes that a game will become fun later... I pay for games that I am having a lot of fun with at the time.
I'm having a blast with TR. I'm sorry you feel like I am hurting the industry as a whole. I've played a lot of AAA titles that have felt shallow and lacking "fun" and I don't pay for them for any more than the first charged month at most. But that's not the case with TR. It's a blast (my opinion of course) and i can't get enough of it. It's been a long time since a game has been this good for me, so for me the monthly fee is obviously justified. If that makes me a fool in the eyes of the naysayers, well... I'm sorry that you feel that way.
I truly and honestly hope that a game shows up someday that satisfies your desires. For me, it's here.
We could also probably partially blame the success of the console game market, and WoW. The industry sees gaming as a cash cow, where they can release dumbed-down, over-simplified games with minimal investment, and make a quick buck. Unfortunately, as far as PC games go, they don't even feel that they need to finish the product.
However, I feel that in TR, the situation is somewhat differant. The development team seems to really care about their product, and to actually intend to follow through making the game better. I'm sure more polish and content would have been incuded in the retail game, if the DEVs had been afforded the time to implement it.
We have to also realise that the development team, who cares, is not the same as the publisher, who simply wants their damn money, "NOW!".
Comments
When it was $5 to try it out yes that was a good idea, give it a try for a week.
Well, there's two things I can say here. First, maybe $50 isn't a big deal to you because you've a job and make a fair amount of money, so $5 or $50 it isn't a big difference. Second, for the rest of us we can try ot network some Buddy Codes. I'm not sure if TR has buddy codes, but it's pretty standard procedure of NCSoft to include them in their retail boxes. (We're all playing our pre-order boxes right now.)
There are going to be plenty of unhappy people in the first 6 months of this game because they ran out and bought it based on hype only to find out it is shallow as a kiddie pool and wears thin in just a few hours of play.
What else is new? Welcome to 95% of the games in the video gaming consumer's world. Tabula Rasa isn't like this for me, I'm still enraptured in it after 16 hours of play with no end in sight, but your milage may vary.
To geldonyetich
I want to thank you for your posts on TR because everytime I read someones "personal rant" there is a comment that always brings it back on track and closer to reality. I had mixed feelings on TR based on the many negative rants from the posters here on MMORPG.com - this was a bad idea.
I believe as it's said over and over, you need to approach TR with an open mind and understanding that its different, as i's been said by the devs - they wanted to try something a bit different. So I am signing up on the Pre-Order, and going to approach the game as such. I may have wasted money before on far worse, and in the end at least I know how I should approach TR, and what I should expect.
Thanks again.
Thats the problem everyone has with the game, its NOT different. There is nothing different or new.
It had the same, go here, kill x, return quests.
It has the same, kill these enemies over and over again, level, and get skill points, that you can spend to make your very small list off skills better.
People are approaching TR as an MMO, and as an MMO, it does a pretty crap job.
If they shounldn't be approaching it as an MMO, then they shouldn't be charging the same as an MMO.
I completely agree. But I'm not willing to recommend that people spend $50 to trial a game, any game.
I think it speaks volumes that there is no free trial version of TR available--yes I know the game doesn't go live for 2 days, but there will be no free trial, just watch. But I'm not surprised since I beta tested the game since June and the devs know that the majority of the people who trial played TR would not stick around to buy it. As a matter of fact, TR is so shallow on content that I can get a char to max level in a 10 day free trial.
You watch and see, like Vanguard, TR will not have a free trial for many months. NCSoft is counting on the income from the people willing to pay $50 to trial TR.
In all fairness, extremely few of big-name MMORPGs offer free trial accounts immediately at release. (Let alone during the 3-day head start which it is right now.) Can anyone recall one that did?
There might be a very practical reason behind this: They don't want to congest the lower content areas with a glut of free-play players until the people who actually bought the box have moved on.
It's a harsh reality that you often get what you pay for and when the price is nothing so is what you're entitled to. If Tabula Rasa offers buddy keys in the retail box, which seems to be relatively standard PlayNC procedure, it's going further than most MMORPGs have within the first 6 months after release.
Reading your post history, you're really, really hung up on that 7/26 patch, Indiramourn. You should probably stay out of betas if you're going to get hooked to balances that were never meant to be. At least seriously try the game some time within the last 3 before damning it forever. I can tell you that I've been feeling a lot of comradery and not at all offended over apparent kill stealing in the pre-order head start.
lets face it, they are looking to make money from the gullible suckers who are willing to fork out 50 bucks for the box and 15 bucks a month on the strength of artwork and garriott's name
the game itself isn't going to be worth anything close to that amount for at least 6 months, possibly longer.
it's too shallow, too lightweight, and utlimatly, too damned boring in its current state and simply not worth the asking price
Since you state that all opinions are valueless, could you kindly explain your need to post three replies to the topic ?
I'd venture someone is not being truthful about how important he thinks his opinions are or he would have felt no need to post.
But now that we have peeled away the veneer of self importance, let's get back on topic and discuss why this pathetic shell of a game should crash and burn to send a 100 million dollar message to the gaming industry about wasting money on hype and the perceived fame of pajama wearing self important little developer gods like Richard Garriott.
Save the insults and psych 101 insights into the human condition, let's hear what you have to say about how great this game is and why people shouldn't avoid it like the plague.
Once more for those who read what they think is there instead of what is really there:
Opinions are fine. I hope everybody forms one on any given subject. Reviews are also fine as long as the reader knows your preferences, your gaming history, what you have liked before, what you're currently playing, your gaming method (how often do you play, for how long a time and so on) and they are written in a relatively sober and subjective (meaningful) tone.
To state that a game is as shallow as a kid's play pool is a colorful statement but it is also completely without value to any reader. Shallow in what way and compared to what game?
This is the point I'm making: If you want to simply throw dirt or fan-boi praise, be prepared to be considered background noise; it is there all the time but effectively useless to anybody.
And to the poster who said that this site is primarily personal opinions (and therefore by definition irrelevant and meaningless to anybody but themselves, hence the "personal" part); couldn't it be nice if they were just removed from the site, leaving only information and questions/answers to be found here?
I don't see any way you can relate TR to the ET game, other than the fact that they are both games.
ET was written, designed, and programmed by a very, very small team with literally no idea what to do for even the main concept. Development was rushed by Atari, so the game was entirely garbage upon release (there was what, 1 month to make the game and ship it?)
If anything, the only MMORPG failure that closely relates to ET would be Vanguard. "The legendary genius of EQ designed this masterpiece, oOOOoOoOoOoooOO" and it dropped like a rock.
Besides, the "video game crash" affected only the USA (and some of Japan and England) because there was no ESRB to rate the content of games, and critics couldn't get a copy of the game or see any footage of it until it was finished. So people would rush out to buy the latest game, only to find out for themselves that it was bad, and the critics released that information to the masses so retailers that had purchased thousands of copies sent them back to the publishers.
You'll notice that Game Stop doesn't carry a huge selection of computer games, and what they carry is the most popular. There are no Lemonade Tycoon, Barbie Adventure, or Dora the Explorer PC games for sale in the store. Why? The content was deemed suitable for smaller children, and Game Stop appeals to the core gamer, not children. In the 80's, they'd be selling anything and everything the publishers throw at them because they sometimes wouldn't even know the game's title until launch.
ET made people question the content of video games, so they stopped buying them...
... until Nintendo introduced the Famicom to the US and saved the day.
Why did people buy games for the Famicom? They weren't entirely different from the older games, but because Nintendo had an "official seal of quality" and made sure that critics reviewed them before publishing, it was a success.
What if Nintendo didn't make that risk? Who knows? Sure enough, someone else would have stepped up to the plate eventually. The industry only struggled because people didn't trust the content of the games they were buying. Nintendo made the first step, and the ESRB in 1993 took it the rest of the way. Although I hate what it's become, and for the true purpose it was formed by Lieberman; it still informs people better than any previous rating system.
Anyway...
Your comparison of Tabula Rasa, a game with obviously a lot of criticism and hard work in development, with ET, a game with no criticism prior to release and a rushed development schedule, is totally flawed.
Also, Richard Garriot's name really has nothing to do with the selling point of the game, since frankly, myself and many others had no idea he even existed until this game's title was announced. All I can say to his ego is, "Good for you, Mr. Garriot, you got your name on a box."
Tabula Rasa is not a bad game. It is not a perfect game, either. If anything, like most of NC Soft's other games, it will maintain a steady level of income and popularity, but still be hated and loved equally. Regardless of your opinions, the game will still appeal to some.
LOL, thank you very much for making my point.
Since you state that all opinions are valueless, could you kindly explain your need to post three replies to the topic ?
I'd venture someone is not being truthful about how important he thinks his opinions are or he would have felt no need to post.
But now that we have peeled away the veneer of self importance, let's get back on topic and discuss why this pathetic shell of a game should crash and burn to send a 100 million dollar message to the gaming industry about wasting money on hype and the perceived fame of pajama wearing self important little developer gods like Richard Garriott.
Save the insults and psych 101 insights into the human condition, let's hear what you have to say about how great this game is and why people shouldn't avoid it like the plague.
Once more for those who read what they think is there instead of what is really there:
Opinions are fine. I hope everybody forms one on any given subject. Reviews are also fine as long as the reader knows your preferences, your gaming history, what you have liked before, what you're currently playing, your gaming method (how often do you play, for how long a time and so on) and they are written in a relatively sober and subjective (meaningful) tone.
To state that a game is as shallow as a kid's play pool is a colorful statement but it is also completely without value to any reader. Shallow in what way and compared to what game?
This is the point I'm making: If you want to simply throw dirt or fan-boi praise, be prepared to be considered background noise; it is there all the time but effectively useless to anybody.
And to the poster who said that this site is primarily personal opinions (and therefore by definition irrelevant and meaningless to anybody but themselves, hence the "personal" part); couldn't it be nice if they were just removed from the site, leaving only information and questions/answers to be found here?
Instead of babbling tripe from your text books, why don't you try saying sometyhing about the crappy game ?
It is because the game doesn't have any decent points that you can discuss ?
C'mon big man, you're so intelligent and educated why don't you write up a big wordy diatribe about how awesome this game is and how wonderful the repetitive gameplay, childish story and fedex quests are...
au contraire - I'm giving my opinions as to its worthiness (it isn't worth the price they are asking, not for the box, and definately not for the subscription). Just because you don't agree doesn't mean a hill of beans, if anything, the unrepentant fanbois are worse.
as for the wasting of people's time - have I held a gun to anyone's head and forced them to read any of my posts? no. argument is invalid
SWG? never played it, never will
and yes, unless they radically revamp the gameplay, fix the balance issues, develop a skill tree that actually bears fruit, and sort out a host of other shallowness, I can't see it surviving.
which is really too bad, I had high hopes for this game, hopes that were initially justified, then slowly and inexoribly dashed against the rocky shores of Suck since June.
enjoy yourself, have fun for the next 4 weeks till you hit lvl50, and continue paying your 15 bucks a month in pay-to-play open beta. I'll take another look in 6 months to see if it has improved at all, but by then AoC and WAR will be out. As it is, there are enouh other games far more worthy of purchasing either on the market, or immanent, that blow this pseudo mmo out of the water (and pseudo it certainly is - it's more a third-person POV shoot-em-up with chat than a true mmo)
anyway - in 6 months, provided development continues, it *might* be worth the price on the box and the sbscription fee - it certainly isn't worth it right now
Classic. Your opinion is based on limited time in a beta AND you have no game experience in games that are KNOWN for having problems and you think your opinion is worth more than mine? You are just trolling now. You have shown nothing to lead anyone here to believe that your open is worth the 01 it took to post. TR is doing well and growing even now as we head into the launch. In fact, it's launch is going better than any other launch I have seen and that is a good many of them.
Thats the problem everyone has with the game, its NOT different. There is nothing different or new.
It had the same, go here, kill x, return quests.
It has the same, kill these enemies over and over again, level, and get skill points, that you can spend to make your very small list off skills better.
People are approaching TR as an MMO, and as an MMO, it does a pretty crap job.
If they shounldn't be approaching it as an MMO, then they shouldn't be charging the same as an MMO.
Are you sure you have the right game? 'Cause I have done some quests in this game that I have never seen in any other game and I have yet to play a game that has the same energy in combat and feel of war. Are there issues, sure. It's a new game so they are goign to exist, but tall this QQing about it not being any different leads me to wonder just what game you are playing. It's certainly not the one I have been playing nightly for weeks now.
Quite the gathering of Trolls we have in this particular thread.
You know, there used to be a time when the general opinion of the posters on this site would actually influence weather or not I tried a game.
Glad those days are over.
So many times, the "desperately" negative posts and reviews by the trolls here have been completely off-base and incorrect. They have this tendancy to take even the best games, find a few things to dislike, and then blow these things out of proportion until the game sounds like a poorly-coded piece of trash.
So many times, these are REALLY good games.
What I see on this TR forum is people being negative, for the sake of being negative. I see people who have created accounts specifically for the purpose of bashing this particular game. Pathetic.
If you don't like it...post why, and move on. Go play the game you DO like, and post constructive topics in THEIR forums.
If you are capable of liking anything at all. I sometimes wonder...
Given the fact that your post has absolutely nothing about the game, should you now be added to this list of trolls that upset you so much ?
Seems like some of you are busy being worried about other people's opinions as opposed to offering commentary on the game in question.
How about commenting on the game, there are general forums that you can make your, unrelated to Tabula Rasa, complaints in.
Given the fact that your post has absolutely nothing about the game, should you now be added to this list of trolls that upset you so much ?
Seems like some of you are busy being worried about other people's opinions as opposed to offering commentary on the game in question.
How about commenting on the game, there are general forums that you can make your, unrelated to Tabula Rasa, complaints in.
Actually, I've commented on the game quite a few times over the last few months. I've also commented on many other games.
My last post in this site commented on the site in general, and in particular, posters like you. I don't need you to tell me what I wrote...I know, I wrote it.
I'm not "worried" about your opinion. You are entitled to it. What bothers me is when people feel compelled to respond to every single positive post with the same negative retorts and pulpit pounding over and over again. It seems that you, in fact, are "worried" about other people's opinions...specifically those who enjoy the game.
You have personally stated that you "want the game to fail". Well, posting the same negative retorts to every positive comment is not going to make it happen, sorry to say. It just makes the forums on this site that much less credible, and enjoyable to read, with trolls spouting the same nonsense over and over again.
EDIT: I just took a look at your profile. Since your account creation on October 1st 2007, EVERY post you have made has been a negative comment in the TR forum. Illustrating my point above, and furthering my disgust.
Wont really matter, once Spellborn is released, its going to leave many MMOs a ghost town, and prolly put alot in Development out of business. Its a cut throat market, and if a game takes all that money and time to develope it should at least be as good as an average single player game.
It used to be an excuse for MMOs to get released incomplete and with much simpler mechanics for the added bonus of being able to play Massively in an open world with thousands of other players. We compromised alot of gameplay for that. Its been over a decade, we're tired of compromising gameplay for Massivity. We dont have to anymore. Spellborn shows this, AoC might show it. AEON, maybe.. TR totally doesnt and stagnates in Mundane mediocrity. Its generic all the way. We want more, we expect it, and we wont keep the old junk. There's all kinds of new tech to appreciate out there. The gaming market is Booming. Bioware sure was bought up by EA, for 860 Million! thats alot. EA can afford it because the market kicks ass. Crytek gets bought by Microsoft.. so what. If the games are great. Its for the best. We aren't FORCED to buy crappy games, if one huge corporation pumps out generic crap, like SOE and NCSOFT, then we ignore them and go elsewhere. They get a horrible reputation, and thats that. Free Market baby! It always rules. We make the choices, we make the rules, we spend the money or hold it back. TR will fail, sadly for Richard Gariote who was a hero of mine, but then he lost his creative edge a long time ago, and cant refine and polish his developer design concepts to keep up or push forward technology. Hes like an old 80s heavy Metal band whos still playing the old 80s Heavy Metal espowsing how much THEY ROCK!
Bring back Liberty, Freedom, & The Constition. Save America from Corporatism. -RonPaul2008
That's really great for you, but in what way is that relevant to the current discussion regarding the fact that, now, both of your pointless posts in this forum have absolutely nothing to do with the game Tabula Rasa ?
Maybe you should put it in the general forum where it belongs then.
Your self important diatribe is nothing more than trolling.
Comment on the game and save your churlish personal attacks.
Like I said, it's wonderful that you feel compelled to halt all the terrible injustices in the universe, but it should be posted in the general forum and not in a game specific forum.
Comprende' ?
Sorry, that's BS, when I ask people to explain "radical changes" and "awesome gameplay" and "the amazing story" I expect them to defend their positions.
Blind faith is what is wrong with a big part of this planet.
That is what the ignore feature is for.
Stop trying to dictate, ignore if you need to but don't try to tell me what I should or shouldn't post.
Who do you think you are ?
As if your disgust has any meaning, at all.
Comment on the game, I have no intention of feeding your little ego by replying to any more of your trolling.
If you can't comment on the game, then take your whining to the general comments section where it belongs.
That's really great for you, but in what way is that relevant to the current discussion regarding the fact that, now, both of your pointless posts in this forum have absolutely nothing to do with the game Tabula Rasa ?
No worse than half of your threads turning positive conversations into flame wars. Granted, you are not alone in this.
Maybe you should put it in the general forum where it belongs then.
Your self important diatribe is nothing more than trolling.
Comment on the game and save your churlish personal attacks.
If people repeatedly wrote post after post in the general forums bashing good games for no particular reason other than their own personal grudge (or whatever) then I would.
why should anyone bother to comment on the game, when you or one of your troll-mates will simply insult them, and their opinion, before spouting yet more negativity?
Like I said, it's wonderful that you feel compelled to halt all the terrible injustices in the universe, but it should be posted in the general forum and not in a game specific forum.
Comprende' ?
This is a conversation about Tabula Rasa. I'm defending the game in general from unnecessary negative ranting. It leaves a bad impression on those who read those boards. People should be able to read through the TR forums without having to wade through post after post of your personal campaign. (and others like you)
Sorry, that's BS, when I ask people to explain "radical changes" and "awesome gameplay" and "the amazing story" I expect them to defend their positions.
Blind faith is what is wrong with a big part of this planet.
People should be able to post positive opinions in this forum without having to "defend" themselves from people like you.
Single-minded hate is a bigger problem than faith will ever be.
That is what the ignore feature is for.
Stop trying to dictate, ignore if you need to but don't try to tell me what I should or shouldn't post.
Who do you think you are ?
Then feel free to ignore ME. Stop trying to tell others that they are wrong when they post THEIR opinions, simply because they happen to like the game.
As if your disgust has any meaning, at all.
Comment on the game, I have no intention of feeding your little ego by replying to any more of your trolling.
If you can't comment on the game, then take your whining to the general comments section where it belongs.
And that just sounds weak and defensive. How does it feel to be on the other side of the attack? This is how you've been making people feel when they come here to post a positive opinion of this game, and you feel the need to belittle them.
No, I do not think TR is the 'ET" of the new millenium. Time will tell, I guess, and a large factor in the game's future will be weather the DEVS can keep their promises of interesting content additions. But this isn't SOE we're talking about. They may actually care enough about this game to follow through.
Yo, warghoul: you spell it 'whether'. Weather is a different animal alltogether.
Also, the game now is completely different from what was in closed beta 'a few months back'. A lot of us from CLOSED beta think that the fun factor has been sucked out since then.
Linna
the game has gone massively downhill since June, it has changed dramatically and not in good ways
it might be alright in 6 months, but right now it's not worth the asking price
If the fanboiz want to throw their money away on an unfinished product, more power to them. Personally I refuse to waste my money.
better keep my dictionary handy when I'm posting late at night after a long session of gaming, so I don't mis-spell anything
Personally, I don't think I've logged into the game since...September 20th or so. Got caught up in a couple other games. My attention span is pretty small when it comes to MMOs these days, since I'm still looking for something with the depth of old SWG or AO.
TR seemed to be a pretty good game. I had a lot of fun. And in about 6 months I'll probably check it out again.
I have a personal policy anyway, since beta testing MxO....never subscribe to an MMO at release...give it half a year or so to become polished. I never expect any MMO to be polished at release.
Calling TR "crap" because it's not an exception to that rule doesn't make sense to me.
If it's not as polished as some feel it should be at release, it's the INDUSTRY that's to blame. PC game publishers in particular have this terrible tendancy to "release now, patch later." They seem to think that because it's easy to download and apply updates on a PC, that it's an excuse to release unfinished software, so they can start making money on it as soon as possible. This doesn't mean the games are bad...it means the publisher (and I say this because it IS almost always the publisher who rushes things out) is.
More companies need to adopt Id Software's policy. They don't set release dates...in stead they've always said that their latest game will be released "When it's done".
I would share the blame equally between the industry wanting to roll unfinished offerings out the door early, AND the audience that happily accepts their under-cooked offerings. If everyone simply refused to buy into the propaganda and hype regarding what *might* be added to the game down the line, then more companies in the gaming industry would do what Id does ant simply not release until the game is actually ready.
too bad there are so many people out there willing to allow the industry to behave in such a poor manner by supporting pay-to-beta released-to-early games
I would share the blame equally between the industry wanting to roll unfinished offerings out the door early, AND the audience that happily accepts their under-cooked offerings. If everyone simply refused to buy into the propaganda and hype regarding what *might* be added to the game down the line, then more companies in the gaming industry would do what Id does ant simply not release until the game is actually ready.
too bad there are so many people out there willing to allow the industry to behave in such a poor manner by supporting pay-to-beta released-to-early games
Well, I can only speak for myself but for me it's not like that at all. I would not pay a fee in hopes that a game will become fun later... I pay for games that I am having a lot of fun with at the time.
I'm having a blast with TR. I'm sorry you feel like I am hurting the industry as a whole. I've played a lot of AAA titles that have felt shallow and lacking "fun" and I don't pay for them for any more than the first charged month at most. But that's not the case with TR. It's a blast (my opinion of course) and i can't get enough of it. It's been a long time since a game has been this good for me, so for me the monthly fee is obviously justified. If that makes me a fool in the eyes of the naysayers, well... I'm sorry that you feel that way.
I truly and honestly hope that a game shows up someday that satisfies your desires. For me, it's here.
We could also probably partially blame the success of the console game market, and WoW. The industry sees gaming as a cash cow, where they can release dumbed-down, over-simplified games with minimal investment, and make a quick buck. Unfortunately, as far as PC games go, they don't even feel that they need to finish the product.
However, I feel that in TR, the situation is somewhat differant. The development team seems to really care about their product, and to actually intend to follow through making the game better. I'm sure more polish and content would have been incuded in the retail game, if the DEVs had been afforded the time to implement it.
We have to also realise that the development team, who cares, is not the same as the publisher, who simply wants their damn money, "NOW!".
Here are some reviews and information:
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/tabularasa/index.html?tag=result;title;0
http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/831/831269p1.html
http://www.gamedaily.com/games/tabula-rasa/pc/game-reviews/list/3137/0/
There's plenty of media about Tabula Rasa. Plenty of criticism and information about the game's content. You should not take only one opinion as your only source for rating something yourself.
If you played the game and hate it, that's your problem. It doesn't mean the game is going to die because it doesn't appeal to you.
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