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I was playing Eve for 2 years, then I've made a break for 6 months and reactivated my account. Guess what, Eve changed from bad to worse.It looks like alt is an absolute necessity in this game. You don't have alts - prepare for a long and frustrating battle with your wallet, or be ready to fly crap while your mates and enemies will fly the new flavor-of-the-month T2 wonder. All those uber PvPers who enjoy flying in their nano-HACs or faction fitted recons usually have alts for one single purpose - to pump ISK. It looks like if you have a single account, you shouldn't be bothered with 0.0 at all. I have an impression that every 0.0 player has an alt with maxed out mining/production skills to infuse hundreds of millions into his PvP account.
I'm currently in a situation when I'm doing lvl 4 missions to raise some ISK. Wallet slowly and painfully grows. Let's say I buy and fit a HAC - at least 150mill (very modest setup) instantly gone. You lose it and you have to grind for a week or more. Wouldn't be that bad if HACs and other T2 wizardry were rare encounter, but it's a mainstream now. Everyone and their dog is flying them, ppl are complaining that ISK is actually TOO EASY TO GET, and they have a point - you see 200-300 and more mill setups a lot. But for single account player that means only one thing - prepare to be outclassed everywhere all the time, get an alt or buy ISK (which is illegal of course).
What I'm interested is the public opinion here - is it possible to play and enjoy Eve with single account, or alts are something you can't enjoy the game without?
Comments
Welcome to EVE's version of End-Game Inflation. All MMORPGs seem to sucumb to this fate eventually. Putting in more and more stuff for multi-boxers and end-game players. Helps keep the faithful subscribed, but makes gaming hell for casual players and those not willing to invest in multiple accounts. Oh well.
I've played in 0.0 with a single account most of the time. You just simply make more money out there then you do in empire running level 4s. Get a faction belt spawn and you can easily pull in 100-200mil in a hour depending on the drops. 40-50mil a hour is not difficult in 0.0 whether your belt ratting or mining.
I only have one 7-month account, and I do well.
My PvP ship is Covert Ops. The advantage is that you can be 'man of the match' in fleet warefare, and yet rarely lose a ship. Also, I laugh at gate camps as I merrily pass them by.
I pay my way by ratting in my T1 battleship, which I never lose because as soon as I see a neural or a red player, I dock straight away.
Having no losses helps.
The trick is what to do with all the loot you get (and you get lots of stuff in 0.0).
How can I rat in 0.0, I hear you ask! Well, join a PvP alliance already established there. It's as simple as that.
I don't use a second character because I think that's a clumsy arrangement.
Nope, you can do quite well in Eve with only one account. About the only thing I could see a 2nd account useful for is mining where the 2nd account is used for transporting minerals.
It's not needed but may help.
are you salvaging the lvl 4s? salvage is worth a lot.
Ok, let's look at the options.
1-st 0.0 mining: alt is a must, because you need someone to tank the rats and transport the goods.
2-nd. 0.0 ratting despite all optimistic estimates of 100mill/hour, from own experience I can say that it gives you around 30 mill/hour at best. And faction spawns? I saw them like 2-3 times for my whole 0.0 life, and the loot was... average at best.
3-rd. lvl 4 missions. That is what I'm doing right now - huge timesink. Approx 15-20 mill/h (maximum est.) if you loot/salvage/recycle everything.
All 3 single account options will force you to mindlessly grind for days to be able to afford anything resembling mainstream 0.0 PvP ship and decent fitting.
I bow to the experience of the others here. Perhaps a second account might help.
The first was to say "screw keeping up with the Joneses", i would fly T2 fitted t1 cruisers, insured BS or t2 frigs/interdictors only into combat. i can replace those easilly and i can also work on flying more cleverly rather than expecting equipment to win for me. i can still have fun and when you hit above your weight it is a good feeling.
the next was to start out on a sideline which was invention, the way that R&D agents now work is great for the casual player, you earn isk while not online, and i have started to do some very modest invetion in modules, which is turning out OK (i do have some suport from the corp here). I did evntually start an alt as the calculations for return on the datacores suggested i could easily pay for that account by trading isk for GTCs.also some semi-AFK mining with the alt helps build those T1 BS for sale or flying.
I don't think an alt is essential but i have come around to the view that they are handy.
If your not having fun...dont play....or get a friend to play with you. That way you can share roles and the such. If you want to PvP all the time...as sugested above...use a smaller ship. Its not hard to make ISK at all, all the tools are there for you to use...use them ^^.
I enjoy running missions and ratting 0.0 so its not a grind, its just playing the game. The game only becomes a chore/grind when your not having fun...and at that point its time to evaluate why your still playing.
That being said...the only real time you need a alt is for cyno jumping.
1) no you do not. A properly fitted hulk can easilly hold 12,000+ cargo AND tank the rats. Allowing you to 'shuttle mine' almost as effectively as you could can mine as long as there is a pos or station to drop cargo in within the system. When I had my alt in 0.0 for mining she was easily able to tank any spawn while mining. On BC/Cruiser or BS/BC spawns she needed to kill off the BC's with her drones but she never had to stop mining nor did her tank ever become 'in danger'. Her hulk was set up to carry 13,500m3 of ore.
2) Agree, best I've ever gotten on average is about 35mil/hr ratting in 0.0.
3) MMM you're doing something wrong. I can easilly make 30mil/hr running level 4 missions as long as you loot/salvage/recycle everything. Key is to use a dedicated loot/salvage ship AFTER blasting through the mission in a ship fitted for max DPS & tank rather than trying to do both with the same ship. Once my mission running alt finishes up some skills etc she'll probably be raking in ~40m/hr with her increased DPS which will allow her to finish missions faster.
I do all of the above with only 1 account all the time. I DO have an alt but it's an empire shopping/mission running alt so that my 0.0 toon doesn't need to bother with finding rats/whatever. On Taram I just PVP. On my empire alt I just make isk. The two have never worked together because, frankly, in 0.0 it wasn't necessary and in Empire, well, Taram doesn't really go there.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Smaller ship? That's exactly my point. Smaller ship is useless. You hardly can kill anything in a smaller ship, and when you're joining a gang, you'll be surprised how many HACs, Recons , command ships you'll see. I don't feel that great when I fly with an inty or assault frig, when everyone else is flying a HAC or recon. Moreover, those guys will still be in HACs and similar staff the very next day after they lose their current ship. I feel outclassed and a freeloader (not sure it's the right word, I'd say parasite, but it's much more harsh and not what I mean) and I don't like it. I had an opportunity to join one corp (with heavy PvP focus) and I refused after I saw that their PvP style is based on nano-HAC gangs, which is financially out of my reach. Of course no one would say a thing if I'd join their gangs in ceptors or af's or even T1 cruiser (I know those ppl for a very long time in Eve), but I'd feel crap in that situation, something like 2-nd grade. I don't like being the worst PvPer in gang and for me it'd kill fun in flying with those guys.
You see, it's all about having fun, and I have fun when I'm an equal in a good PvP corp, not some 2-nd grade PvPer who flies T1 cruisers forever and uses cheapest and the most useless ship in gang. In todays Eve, being equal in a good PvP corp means being able to throw hundreds of millions on ships, setups, implants. That is the problem I have to solve. If I solve it, then good; if I won't, well, it's not fun to remain a n00b after playing for 2.5 years with 25mill sp and maxed out gunnery, HAC skills.
And here is my alliance, always looking for people who pilot a ceptor in their gangs, because we dont have enough..
No, really. Ceptors are neither cheap nor useless. A gang is nothing without some ultra-fast tackler! Thats why my Corp even has people in t1-frigates joining in. And gives people cheap t2-ships + nearly-for-free battleships.
I call bullshit on the need for multiple accounts!
I play casually (2-3 hours maybe once or twice a week) and never felt like I need 2 to make ISK. As it stands, I make from about 10m-20m per hour when I'm logged in. Keep in mind that these earnings are being generated while flying an Assault Frigate!
Never has anyone in my corp or alliance ever made a presentation that I need multiple accounts to earn isk to field more expensive ships. For the record, just 'cs it's not expensive does not mean it's "crap" as the op states.
Play as you want. If "you" think you need multiple accounts to make ISK then so be it. Thankfully I know that's not a blanket answer for the masses...
P.S. The OP might want to assess his/her Corp if these problems are being originating there.
If you feel ok, when flying an assault frig or ceptor when everyone else in gang brings HACs, Recons or Command Ship - good for you. And even if we're talking about ceptors, how you can be of any use to a gang with your standard fitted ceptor when there are specialized ceptor pilots with ceptors going at 12km/s and more (full snake set and T2 speed rigs probably) and your ceptor goes at a speed of an ordinary interdictor?
you are hooked into powerleveling by gear, the idea that you must be able to to at least equal the best gear in the game.
if you can't get over the fact that you can't make enough isk to 'enjoy' the game, sell GTCs or quit. I personaly think your idea of satisfaction is unaproachable and you will never be satisfied.
The example with the 'cepter is a good one, you can get up to 5km/s easily and then you can tackle with 95% of targets but that 5% that is out of your reach is the reason you wont take our advice.
You are poisoning your own fun.
Yes, I was talking about best ceptor pilots in game and that is not a good example. But the bottom line is - when you join a gang you have to bring something with you. After all, you shouldn't join just to be on the next killmail and give 0.005% of total damage. I don't know where your char lives in Eve, but I see roaming gangs nearly totally consisting of HACs, Recons and some Command Ships, interdictors, going at 3-4 km/s; interceptors, some of which pass 10km/s with ease. All I'm trying to do is to find a way not to fall behind and bring a ship that counts more than just x+1 number in gang, ship that will reflect gang's relative strength.
ok then, either fly the t1 version of your HAC of choice, you will not be primaried, you will practice techniques of survival in something you can afford to replace, that is more fragile, and you will steadily save money to buy the HAC which you will then keep for longer because you will have finely honed your survival skills.
Does this make sence?
the other option is to answer the question, what support roles are missing in your gang, and fill those. so your dps may suck, you may even not be on killmails but if you are responsible for actualy getting the kill through tackle, or save a crewmate by ECM or remote repping, or find the target by probing them down, you are a hell of a lot more than gang +1, you are now working a team, and nothing is more scary than a balanced gang working well together.
The other option is to put a huge amount of investment into a money making alt, and throwing large amounts of isk away in fights because you expect your equipment to save you, not the skill to use it or the support of a gang.
One question i have is, in the fights that your friends win, what do you do with the loot, how is it split? we give the lions share, the best gear to the person in our gang who lost their ship so they can replace it.
As to the gang types you see, nothing is more fun than baiting 2 bil in shippage, with 30 mil, wasting their time and frustrating them with a lack of a kill. I play in an underdog alliance, we are out numbered 10 to and out resourced 100 to 1. we wage a very carfull war against morale. Your fun is what you make it.
I am stating as a noob here as i just started playing , but isk has not been a huge deal yet i went out on a mission with my corps and got a 2 million isk piece of loot, which probably isnt much but it helped me get my thrasher.
playing eq2 and two worlds
Second....would 300 million outfit the ship of your needs? If so...then it is 10 hours of grinding to get one. I don't think thats a bad ratio....could easily knock that out in a couple of sessions on a weekend.
How often do you lose these ships? Me, I make sure I keep them awhile.... Maybe fly in smarter gangs?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
My advice would be to fly a covert ops ships, stay cloaked and move too fast for them to hit you anyway!!!!
Become the world's expert in running away, like me!!
Only joking!
Your problem is you are not thinking outside the box. There is more ways in EVE to make isk rather than lvl 4 missions, ratting or mining... Here is my list.
First things first buy a damn freighter. So many uses for it.
1. Freighter runs to low sec reselling Battleships, implants, mods and rigs.
Those three things go like wild fire in lowsec. Most pirates can't bring their own battleships due to their sec and the only way to get it their is a freighter or a battleship pilot alt.
2. Character buying and selling on the forums.
I do this as well and make a huge amount of isk. Sell your hauling alt and remake a new one. If you have a some isk for capital you can purchase a new character on the forums train on battleship V or some other major skill and resell I can promise a very good profit.
3. Empire trading with your frieghter.
I dont need to explain this.
4. High sec ganking.
2 week old player in a Kerstel with a ship scanner. When you character drops to far create a new one. Find easy targets with blueprints or other very expensive mods. Grab a few buddies and take out haulers.
5. Stock investments.....
There are so many more ways to make money other than Mining, ratting and missioning you just need to use your imagination.
2 accounts needed? No way.
I personally have 2, but I'm thinking about canceling one. I simply don't need it. The second account is a miner, and I make much more ratting in 0.0 with my main than mining with my alt.
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Battleship insured with T1 Mods... Isk problem solved. If you are dieing that much I suggest get in a better corp
I'm not talking about T1 fitted battleships or cruisers. I'm talking about HACs, Recons and Command Ships. T1 fitted ships are not a problem, T2 fitted T2 ships are - and that's what is most ppl flying now, just look at an average 0.0 gang, how many T1 ships you'll find there? Not much. But loads of HACs and other niceties.
I agree with mindspat 100% here, a corps is imo a unit and the one i am in acts as just that, we go out mining a cple times a week, someone hauling cans and a cple of us filling them and all the isk from all of us doing this together goes towards any loyal member of snipers corps, whatever they need, and to our bases and whatnot, I would definatly question yer corps, but then again if you are in a corps and do nothing to help it like i stated above you may be finding that to be the reason you are not getting the help or things you need. ( you still play swg mindspat?)
playing eq2 and two worlds