Technically we're a Constitutional Republic... forgive me if I take this thread to another level of discussion, but I feel it's an important topic. I know it may seem out of place for such Anarchist views when people are happily engrossed in their carnal and material pleasures, but I believe that who you vote for does not/will not change the direction we've already been steered towards before this Great Nation was even conceived. You feel like you have power in voting for who you'd like seated in the Oval Office, and agree with the changes they will/might make ~ but none of that matters. It's all a Great Show put on before you;
"Paul O'Neill - who was a member of the National Security Council as well as being in charge of fiscal policy - made a shocking revelation to Ron Suskind that not only are public events scripted, but even cabinet (and other) meetings within the White House with the President are scripted, where everyone but Bush has speaking parts. Bush's role is merely to nod or listen expressionlessly, aside from his occasional cryptic (or cynical) comments..." ~ John Dean (Worse Than Watergate)
Just listen to what some amazing thinkers through history mull over;
"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar." ~ Julius Caesar
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the Scoundrel." ~ Samuel Johnson
"The first panacea for a mismanaged nation is inflation of currency; the second is war. Both bring a temporary prosperity and both bring a permanent ruin. But both are the refuge of a political and economic opportunists." ~ Ernest Hemmingway
"Christianity and these organized religions as well as the corporate dominance of government's ~ they're there to erase your spirit of rebellion. That's their Modus Operandi. That's why they exist. They don't exist to take you to God or Heaven. There's very few enlightened people anywhere in the World. But what there is, is conformity, violence, subserviance to tradition, and untold sadism to the self and others, and there is the obvious control and subjugation of the true spirit of rebellion."
"The twenty-first century will be the era of the World Controllers... Under a scientific dictatorship, education will really work, most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution. There seems to be no good reason why a thoroughly scientific dictatorship should ever be overthrown." ~ Aldous Huxley (Brave New World Revisited)
"History has shown that what our government does to others today, it will do to Americans tomorrow." John Dead
"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country...corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war." ~ Abraham Lincoln 1864
A Corporate take over is worse than War? ....
"There is no such thing as an independent press in America...Not a man among you dares to utter his honest opinion. Were you to utter it, you know that it would never appear in print...I am paid to keep my honest opinion out of the newspaper for which I write...Were I to permit a single edition of the newspaper for which I write, to contain an honest opinion, my occupation..would be gone in less than twenty-four hours. The man who would be foolish enough to write his honest opinion would soon be walking the streets in search of another job. It is the duty of the New York journalist to lie, distort, to destroy, to revile, to toady at the feet of Mammon, and to sell his country, and his race, for his daily bread or what amounts to the same, for his salary. We are tools and vessels of the rich (International Bankers and their affiliates such as the C.F.R.) behind the scenes. We are the marionettes. These men pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our capacities, are all property of these men - we are intellectual prostitutes." ~ John Swinton 1914 American Press Association, spoken after his retirement
Random Facts;
You know that on your Birth certificate, there lies, the Seal from the Chamber of Commerce...
By 2004, 160 Billion dollars have been appropriated toward the use of the Iraq War ~ that would be the equivalent of going to every US Citizen's door and asking for $25,000 each. How many could pay that, or would?
The symbol for the American Dollar "$" represent the ancient glyph/symbol for "Scourge." The definition of Scourge: "a whip or lash, esp. for the infliction of punishment or torture." or "a cause of affliction or calamity."
So I say to you;
There is no point in trying to work with what we have to make a better Country/World. It would be like walking into a Slaughterhouse that you work for and voted for a new President who would kill the animals in a more humane way or allow the livestock more pleasures/freedom ~ but you're still in a slaughterhouse. You need to break down what exists and start over. You can't build anything of strength or virtue that will last on a foundation of everlasting deception, and tyranny.
"The only sovereign you can allow to rule you is reason." ~ Richard Rahl
I'd vote for Bobo the Monkey over any Republican, at this point. Seriously, it will most likely be a Democrat who becomes president - Bush has messed it up for his entire party. I don't recall the country having nearly as many problems when Bill Clinton was in office. Yeah, I know he was fooling around with Monica but do you think he's the only government official to do that? Does that indiscretion nullify his entire presidency? Clinton screwed one person, Bush has screwed the whole country! Also remember that Hillary played a very active role in his administration and, as such, gained some valuable experience. Barack seems like a strong contender but he suffers from a lack of experience. On top of that, he attacked Hillary for voting for the war in Iraq but he wasn't even a Senator yet, so we don't know how he would've voted. It's easy to look back now and say "oh, I would have been against it" but things looked different when Bush and his cronies were feeding everyone false intelligence about Saddam's "WMDs". Anyone who voted against the war looked like they were "anti-American". Barack also went after Hillary because she voted to condemn Iran as a terrorist nation yet he didn't even show up to vote at all. I have to wonder how many of the people posting on this site are teenagers or in their early 20's. It's unlikely they really remember the politics of the 90's or even 9/11. If you're 18 now, you were only 12 years old when the World Trade Center was attacked and 4 years old when Bill Clinton became president. I don't know too many children that follow politics...so a lot of the negative Clinton comments are probably coming from people who don't even have first hand knowledge of the events. I voted for Bill Clinton, twice, and the USA seemed to be in pretty good shape while he was in charge.
Much of the economic problems that America faced during President Bush's first term were caused by the poor policies put into place by President Clinton. Economic policies take time to make changes, Clinton was the benefactor of the success of Ronald Reagan's Policies. President Clinton did nothing of merit while in office. He fired off some missiles at empty tents in his failed attempt to deal with the Terrorists.
If you honestly were interested in a change then you will definitely vote for someone other then Hillary Clinton. Ron Paul is the front runner for some actual change, but he will never win.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I'd vote for Bobo the Monkey over any Republican, at this point. Seriously, it will most likely be a Democrat who becomes president - Bush has messed it up for his entire party. I don't recall the country having nearly as many problems when Bill Clinton was in office. Yeah, I know he was fooling around with Monica but do you think he's the only government official to do that? Does that indiscretion nullify his entire presidency? Clinton screwed one person, Bush has screwed the whole country! Also remember that Hillary played a very active role in his administration and, as such, gained some valuable experience. Barack seems like a strong contender but he suffers from a lack of experience. On top of that, he attacked Hillary for voting for the war in Iraq but he wasn't even a Senator yet, so we don't know how he would've voted. It's easy to look back now and say "oh, I would have been against it" but things looked different when Bush and his cronies were feeding everyone false intelligence about Saddam's "WMDs". Anyone who voted against the war looked like they were "anti-American". Barack also went after Hillary because she voted to condemn Iran as a terrorist nation yet he didn't even show up to vote at all. I have to wonder how many of the people posting on this site are teenagers or in their early 20's. It's unlikely they really remember the politics of the 90's or even 9/11. If you're 18 now, you were only 12 years old when the World Trade Center was attacked and 4 years old when Bill Clinton became president. I don't know too many children that follow politics...so a lot of the negative Clinton comments are probably coming from people who don't even have first hand knowledge of the events. I voted for Bill Clinton, twice, and the USA seemed to be in pretty good shape while he was in charge.
Much of the economic problems that America faced during President Bush's first term were caused by the poor policies put into place by President Clinton. Economic policies take time to make changes, Clinton was the benefactor of the success of Ronald Reagan's Policies. President Clinton did nothing of merit while in office. He fired off some missiles at empty tents in his failed attempt to deal with the Terrorists.
If you honestly were interested in a change then you will definitely vote for someone other then Hillary Clinton. Ron Paul is the front runner for some actual change, but he will never win.
I agree that Bill Clinton made mistakes - every administration has. I do not, however, think that Bush can blame the current state of our country on his predecessor. The Republicans controlled Congress during Clinton's presidency.
Clinton did make anti-terrorism efforts but he was blocked by the Republicans. In 1996, Clinton said "We need to keep this country together right now. We need to focus on this terrorism issue," when he was asking Congress to give him assistance to stop Bin Laden. The Republicans, led by Orrin Hatch and Trent Lott, denied his requests.
Ron Paul may have some good ideas, but do you really think he will be able to abolish the IRS? Most people I've spoken to consider Paul, at best, an eccentric ideologist who will never actually accomplish anything.
With that being said, I will not cast a vote for any Republican because they have caused too much damage to this country. So, I'm forced to choose between Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and John Edwards. Out of those three, I think Hillary is the logical choice.
................................ My current Guild Wars character:
It is Clintons fault that Osama is still alive he was playing golf when we had a 20min window to capture him. He put off the CIA agent for 40mins. It is true. Alsoi think the war is worth it. We have libetraed a country all the stupid liberal stations want to show though is the cost or how many soliders have died. Please we have lost many less soliders then the vietnam war our last "police action". two soliders who came back talked about how the media says we are doing nothing over there yet we have given cities power where they had never had it before. Built schools and given people rights. Terroistis attacks droping in Iraq becuase the people there WANT us there. They no longer encourage or agree with the attacks on us becuase of what we have done for their country. If we pull out of the middle east whats stopping them from destroying Israel and then attacking Euprope and coming to NA. Cells in mexico have been discovered where they train people to come across the border and attack us.
I think a democrat is the worse thing that could happen to this country as it means pretty much a full withdrawel from Iraq asap and then they will just come here.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
It is Clintons fault that Osama is still alive he was playing golf when we had a 20min window to capture him. He put off the CIA agent for 40mins. It is true. Alsoi think the war is worth it. We have libetraed a country all the stupid liberal stations want to show though is the cost or how many soliders have died. Please we have lost many less soliders then the vietnam war our last "police action". two soliders who came back talked about how the media says we are doing nothing over there yet we have given cities power where they had never had it before. Built schools and given people rights. Terroistis attacks droping in Iraq becuase the people there WANT us there. They no longer encourage or agree with the attacks on us becuase of what we have done for their country. If we pull out of the middle east whats stopping them from destroying Israel and then attacking Euprope and coming to NA. Cells in mexico have been discovered where they train people to come across the border and attack us. I think a democrat is the worse thing that could happen to this country as it means pretty much a full withdrawel from Iraq asap and then they will just come here.
We "liberated" a country under false pretenses. It's well documented that the Bush administration went to great lengths to create a link between Al-Qaeda and Iraq. Doesn't that concern you?
If Bush was really concerned about WMDs or aiding oppressed people, why didn't we move against North Korea? Kim Jong-il is a much worse leader and threat than Saddam Hussein was.
In the end, the entire war has been pointless: 30,000 American soldiers killed, our reputation ruined in the international community and increased oil prices....all for what?
................................ My current Guild Wars character:
And several million Iraqis died. However, you are forgetting 1 huge thing about Clinton's administration. He actually fixed the economy that Bush then ruined. At this point I would rather have someone who pursues fixing our own countries infrastructure and image, then pursuing dictators. I would actually vote for McCain, but it doesn't look like he will be nominated.
Originally posted by CleffyII And several million Iraqis died. However, you are forgetting 1 huge thing about Clinton's administration. He actually fixed the economy that Bush then ruined. At this point I would rather have someone who pursues fixing our own countries infrastructure and image, then pursuing dictators. I would actually vote for McCain, but it doesn't look like he will be nominated.
several million? lol where the hell do you get your information? Even the outrageously high estimates are under 1 million.
Iraq body count which does independent death analysis says under 100,000
Please, the discussion of Iraq is almost pointless, just like who you're going to vote for, come next year. The motives for the war in Iraq and Terror is nothing like you can imagine.
Just check out Bush's executive orders post 9-11:
10990: Take over all modes of transport
10995: Seize and control media
10997: Control Energy
10998: Take over food resources
11002: Register Everyone in the Country
11000: Mobilize citizens into work brigades
11004: Abandon Certain urban areas by force
11921: Control wages/salaries, credit and flow of money
Public Health Security & Bioterrorism Act which became public Law..
Model Emergency Health Preparedness (MEHPA), among many things, gives rights to the state to arrest and vaccinate, even with untested drugs.
Constitutional lawyers and historians know these acts are purely illegal. There are not constitutionally valid at all. Most importantly they cannot be veto'd or changed or contridicted by the Congress or the People of the United States who put that Monarch in power...
"Government is an association of men who do violence to the rest of us." ~ Count Leo Tolstoy
Since the second World War the US has bombed 250 countries; China, Korea, Guatemala, Indonesia, Cuba, Congo, peru, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Lebanon, Grenada, Libya, El Salvador, Panama, Bosnia, Sudan, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Iran etc
There have been more wars since the creation of the United Nations in 1948, than from the beginning of time up to 1948. These are real, full wars.
"If one values human life, one cannot value it's destroyers. Criminals are a small minority in any age or community. And the harm they have done to mankind is infinitesimal when compared to the horrors - the bloodshed, the wars, the persecution, the famines, the enslavements, the wholesale destruction- perpetrated by mankind's governments. Potentially, a government is the most dangerous threat to man's rights - When unlimited and unrestricted by individual rights, a government is men's deadliest enemy." ~ Ayn Rand
"We must all face the fact that our leaders are certifiably insane or worse." ~ William S. Burroughs
On nearby seismic geographical machines in New York there were several spikes of incredible force right before the percussion of the planes hitting the towers. It is quite obvious for those that still question, with proof flat in their face, that the towers were destroyed from within by explosives. Even Aaron Swirski (one of the architects of the WTC) said they designed the towers to withstand airplane collisions, "I designed it for a 707 hit, he said." The collapse of the buildings came as a complete "shock" to him and his colleagues. This is fact folks. Also let's dismiss the facts that multiple commercial planes were deviated from their professed courses for over an hour heading toward their target's ~ you think anyone doing their job correctly in the control tower would just shrug off planes going on their own courses. I'm not even going to go into more facts than that, I'm sure most of you have been barraged with these types of text-bites before and already made some firm opinions on what you think really happened on 9/11.
It's like when the Lusitania was sent into enemy territory as bait to be destroyed so we would enter WWI, or the attack on Pearl Harbor (where weeks before the attack Pearl Harbor was commanded to take down it's radar systems) which caused us to enter WWII. Or the torpedo attacks that entered us into the arena of Vietnam ~ when years after the war it was proven that no such attacks even happened. The list goes on for every War you can possible imagine.
Discussions of War and Politics severely are a waste of energy unless you're getting to the root of the problem~ The Origin of Evil. This unnatural plague is a product of civilization. Civilization is the cause of nearly EVERY disease and negative characteristic of man.
out of all the people running for president in 2008 the only one who i agree with the most if Ron Paul. While their are some issues i do not agree with him on over all i think he will do good things for the country.
Both the Republcian and democratic parties have failed use. The republcians got use into the war in Iraq. We elected the democratics to the Congress to help get out use, and so far they havent done anything to help fix the problem. Just been pilling up more and more problems. While Ron Paul is republcian he is not agree with his party for the most part. Watch some of the videos online and you will see what i mean. The mainstream media doesnt like him to much so they try to slash his name and people who support him and his ideas.
"Some of his supporters believe that 9/11 was an inside job by the American Government, others are white supremacists." Quote from Tom Baldwin from Washington.
i think people like hillary simply because she is a woman. there is no other reason at all to like her if you actually pay attention to politics. as a woman myself, it embarasses me.
Please, the discussion of Iraq is almost pointless, just like who you're going to vote for, come next year. The motives for the war in Iraq and Terror is nothing like you can imagine. Just check out Bush's executive orders post 9-11:
10990: Take over all modes of transport 10995: Seize and control media 10997: Control Energy 10998: Take over food resources 11002: Register Everyone in the Country 11000: Mobilize citizens into work brigades 11004: Abandon Certain urban areas by force 11921: Control wages/salaries, credit and flow of money Public Health Security & Bioterrorism Act which became public Law.. Model Emergency Health Preparedness (MEHPA), among many things, gives rights to the state to arrest and vaccinate, even with untested drugs. Constitutional lawyers and historians know these acts are purely illegal. There are not constitutionally valid at all. Most importantly they cannot be veto'd or changed or contridicted by the Congress or the People of the United States who put that Monarch in power... "Government is an association of men who do violence to the rest of us." ~ Count Leo Tolstoy Since the second World War the US has bombed 250 countries; China, Korea, Guatemala, Indonesia, Cuba, Congo, peru, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Lebanon, Grenada, Libya, El Salvador, Panama, Bosnia, Sudan, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Iran etc There have been more wars since the creation of the United Nations in 1948, than from the beginning of time up to 1948. These are real, full wars. "If one values human life, one cannot value it's destroyers. Criminals are a small minority in any age or community. And the harm they have done to mankind is infinitesimal when compared to the horrors - the bloodshed, the wars, the persecution, the famines, the enslavements, the wholesale destruction- perpetrated by mankind's governments. Potentially, a government is the most dangerous threat to man's rights - When unlimited and unrestricted by individual rights, a government is men's deadliest enemy." ~ Ayn Rand "We must all face the fact that our leaders are certifiably insane or worse." ~ William S. Burroughs On nearby seismic geographical machines in New York there were several spikes of incredible force right before the percussion of the planes hitting the towers. It is quite obvious for those that still question, with proof flat in their face, that the towers were destroyed from within by explosives. Even Aaron Swirski (one of the architects of the WTC) said they designed the towers to withstand airplane collisions, "I designed it for a 707 hit, he said." The collapse of the buildings came as a complete "shock" to him and his colleagues. This is fact folks. Also let's dismiss the facts that multiple commercial planes were deviated from their professed courses for over an hour heading toward their target's ~ you think anyone doing their job correctly in the control tower would just shrug off planes going on their own courses. I'm not even going to go into more facts than that, I'm sure most of you have been barraged with these types of text-bites before and already made some firm opinions on what you think really happened on 9/11. It's like when the Lusitania was sent into enemy territory as bait to be destroyed so we would enter WWI, or the attack on Pearl Harbor (where weeks before the attack Pearl Harbor was commanded to take down it's radar systems) which caused us to enter WWII. Or the torpedo attacks that entered us into the arena of Vietnam ~ when years after the war it was proven that no such attacks even happened. The list goes on for every War you can possible imagine.
Discussions of War and Politics severely are a waste of energy unless you're getting to the root of the problem~ The Origin of Evil. This unnatural plague is a product of civilization. Civilization is the cause of nearly EVERY disease and negative characteristic of man. We know the problem - let's find the solution.
ugh a conspirtaor. Why would we kill thousands of americans to enter a war i mean really you have to be mentally blind to belive in that. And as for why we entered the wars for one thing get your history stright we had aided the french when they tried to control veitnam to keep put the commounist we had allies down there. They spilt like Korea and the war started when the north went after the south. We went in to help our allies and were winning the war when we pulled out. That stupid move by the veitnamese when they launched that huge attack going all the way to the captial cots us very little and them greatly. But the liberals and hippies got their way and we pulled out. as for WW2 idk how far it went out but do you really think it wouldve made much a of difference im gonna put this in caps so you get it
IT WAS A ATTACK ON AMERICANS SURPRISE OR NOT WE WOULDVE GONE TO WAR.
But yeah you must be right our govt likes killing citizens so we can go to war..........
So tell me why did we enter the korean war or the first gulf war. How bout the civil war or the revoutionary war how the the mexican war. You said it went on for any war i can imagaine so tell me some crackpot theroy on why we entered those wars. Also i belive the offical country count if the war is somewhere round 183 so ummm how did we bomb 250 i know countries have been renamed or new formed but that many please.
As for the person who questioned me saying we liberated a country why dont we attack north korea. Well lets think about this yes he treats his country like crap but hes not gassing 100s of 1000s of people. Also they do have WMDs plus after the pullout from korea where we just have a small force now. We leave decisiones to NK SK china and japan. If you notice when korea was test launching their nuclear weapons the choice on what to do was left to those 3 countires we were a last resort.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Vast majority of democrats voted to go into Iraq too.
ron paul voted against it, hes a republican
ron paul isnt to heavy into republican ideas really he could be his own party as he doesnt go with either but inds never win.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Ask any European who they would like and they would perhaps differ on the person choice, but I guarantee you they would all be democrats. I can't even begin to illuminate how badly the relationships between Europe and the US have deteriorated since the Bush administration took over.
There is no "Old Europe". We outnumber the US in population( second to only China and India) and we are inches away from taking over the GDP(gross domestic product) and the PPP(purchasing power parity) race. Make no mistake, the US is still a formidable superpower both militarily and politically - but the age of decline has already begun on many levels. This is not a shock, all "empires" go through this phase, some manage to evolve, others deteriorate and crumble. It took a very short time for the USSR to fall to pieces(although the reasons for the fall were many and had been in effect for decades) compared to the Roman Empire which lay in its deathbed for centuries. what I'm saying is, you guys need to think very carefully whom you want representing you in the world community. Last week Bush mentioned the possibility of WW III in relation to the controversy over Iran enriching uranium. Is he nuts? Nobody goes out and says that. It's just not politically wise or even sane to have outbursts like that.
In every political discussion with Americans it's constitution this and declaration of independence that, but since 911 you guys have been put in domestic "housearrest". The Patriot Act and many follow-up laws has seen to that. Through my travels in Europe I've met alot of cool Americans and they all had this wonderfull independent spirit about them. i'd hate to see that go - and I'm not only talking about the coming election either, I'm talking about the system, the out-of-control industrial lobbying, large elements of the military budget where even Congress is denied access because of "national security". In Europe there probably isn't a single country with at least 5-8 parties vying for power(UK excluded) but the US is only one step away from a one-party state.
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government."
"In the Soviet Union, government controls industry. In the United States, industry controls government. That is the principal structural difference between the two great oligarchies of our time."
Ask any European who they would like and they would perhaps differ on the person choice, but I guarantee you they would all be democrats. I can't even begin to illuminate how badly the relationships between Europe and the US have deteriorated since the Bush administration took over.
There is no "Old Europe". We outnumber the US in population( second to only China and India) and we are inches away from taking over the GDP(gross domestic product) and the PPP(purchasing power parity) race. Make no mistake, the US is still a formidable superpower both militarily and politically - but the age of decline has already begun on many levels. This is not a shock, all "empires" go through this phase, some manage to evolve, others deteriorate and crumble. It took a very short time for the USSR to fall to pieces(although the reasons for the fall were many and had been in effect for decades) compared to the Roman Empire which lay in its deathbed for centuries. what I'm saying is, you guys need to think very carefully whom you want representing you in the world community. Last week Bush mentioned the possibility of WW III in relation to the controversy over Iran enriching uranium. Is he nuts? Nobody goes out and says that. It's just not politically wise or even sane to have outbursts like that. In every political discussion with Americans it's constitution this and declaration of independence that, but since 911 you guys have been put in domestic "housearrest". The Patriot Act and many follow-up laws has seen to that. Through my travels in Europe I've met alot of cool Americans and they all had this wonderfull independent spirit about them. i'd hate to see that go - and I'm not only talking about the coming election either, I'm talking about the system, the out-of-control industrial lobbying, large elements of the military budget where even Congress is denied access because of "national security". In Europe there probably isn't a single country with at least 5-8 parties vying for power(UK excluded) but the US is only one step away from a one-party state. "A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." "In the Soviet Union, government controls industry. In the United States, industry controls government. That is the principal structural difference between the two great oligarchies of our time." Edward Abbey(1927-1989)
Your right but if the terriost decied to go to war with a country the only one who has the power to out right beat them is the US. I mean look at it this way the britians pulled out of Iraq what happened? subway bombings. After we pull out then what? They attack us? Probly not were pretty far away and our sercurity is tighter. But Europe yall are pretty wide open to attack. None of the countries have that strong of a military and becuase of how close the countires are the borders arent that great. And who would defend you the UN which means US soliders as most of them are US. Maby it wouldnt be to bad if we just told the world screw you and just went to the NA and made a pact with mexico and canada to keep out everyone else. we have the land and the man power to do it. No real country could attack us as our navy is the best in the world. Of coruse the terriost would use gruellia tacits maby a few major ones but lower compared to the rest of the world.
A republican president will keep this country together. The patriot act what it has not hurt me i care nothing for, for i have nothing to hide and i want to be safe. I mean unless you have something to hide why would you care about this.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Ask any European who they would like and they would perhaps differ on the person choice, but I guarantee you they would all be democrats. I can't even begin to illuminate how badly the relationships between Europe and the US have deteriorated since the Bush administration took over.
There is no "Old Europe". We outnumber the US in population( second to only China and India) and we are inches away from taking over the GDP(gross domestic product) and the PPP(purchasing power parity) race. Make no mistake, the US is still a formidable superpower both militarily and politically - but the age of decline has already begun on many levels. This is not a shock, all "empires" go through this phase, some manage to evolve, others deteriorate and crumble. It took a very short time for the USSR to fall to pieces(although the reasons for the fall were many and had been in effect for decades) compared to the Roman Empire which lay in its deathbed for centuries. what I'm saying is, you guys need to think very carefully whom you want representing you in the world community. Last week Bush mentioned the possibility of WW III in relation to the controversy over Iran enriching uranium. Is he nuts? Nobody goes out and says that. It's just not politically wise or even sane to have outbursts like that. In every political discussion with Americans it's constitution this and declaration of independence that, but since 911 you guys have been put in domestic "housearrest". The Patriot Act and many follow-up laws has seen to that. Through my travels in Europe I've met alot of cool Americans and they all had this wonderfull independent spirit about them. i'd hate to see that go - and I'm not only talking about the coming election either, I'm talking about the system, the out-of-control industrial lobbying, large elements of the military budget where even Congress is denied access because of "national security". In Europe there probably isn't a single country with at least 5-8 parties vying for power(UK excluded) but the US is only one step away from a one-party state. "A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." "In the Soviet Union, government controls industry. In the United States, industry controls government. That is the principal structural difference between the two great oligarchies of our time." Edward Abbey(1927-1989)
Your right but if the terriost decied to go to war with a country the only one who has the power to out right beat them is the US. I mean look at it this way the britians pulled out of Iraq what happened? subway bombings. After we pull out then what? They attack us? Probly not were pretty far away and our sercurity is tighter. But Europe yall are pretty wide open to attack. None of the countries have that strong of a military and becuase of how close the countires are the borders arent that great. And who would defend you the UN which means US soliders as most of them are US. Maby it wouldnt be to bad if we just told the world screw you and just went to the NA and made a pact with mexico and canada to keep out everyone else. we have the land and the man power to do it. No real country could attack us as our navy is the best in the world. Of coruse the terriost would use gruellia tacits maby a few major ones but lower compared to the rest of the world.
A republican president will keep this country together. The patriot act what it has not hurt me i care nothing for, for i have nothing to hide and i want to be safe. I mean unless you have something to hide why would you care about this.
I remember 911 vividly. I remember the shock, the disbelief. Then came the anger. I was, as all Europeans were, outraged on this attack on our closest ally for more than half a century. I also remember my grandfather telling me how he watched scores of Luftwaffe figthers flying over his house heading towards our capitol and I also know who answered the call to arms in the liberation of Europe. But... our relationship are undergoing change. Unfortunately. Russia exports more than 40% of their huge natural gas ressources to the European Union, historically and culturally Russia is more closely related to EU than EU and US. This tendency has been tenfold amplified through the inept attitude and actions of the current US administration.
Yes, the US navy bows to no foreign power, yes the US in a conventional war is the most powerful nation on the planet - but at what cost? You don't take down terrorist cells with an aircraft carrier, but with dilligent work made by special forces and counter-intelligence units. The military is like a huge sledgehammer, it's powerful, but it's not precise.
There was a huge pressure to do "something" after 911 and I think that this public need for some sort of reaction was highjacked by high ranking VIPs to promote their own political and especially industrial views/needs. That was the motive, now let's examine the method. How did we go from eliminating the terrorist threat to invading a country? Don't tell me it's about democracy and evil old Saddam because if that was the case you had your chance in the first desert war. Saddam was considered "reliable" in the sense that Iraq was considered volatile without the leadership of the dictator and if you say democracy and dictator and "moral and justified war" then you need to invade 3/4 of Africa where tyrants are plenty.
"The patriot act what it has not hurt me i care nothing for, for i have nothing to hide and i want to be safe. I mean unless you have something to hide why would you care about this."
I think this is a very very dangerous perspective. This is exactly what the architects behind this want the majority to think. It's like saying "all suspects of the state are guilty, otherwise they wouldn't be suspects, now would they?" The following quotation illustrates my fear of your view:
Ask any European who they would like and they would perhaps differ on the person choice, but I guarantee you they would all be democrats. I can't even begin to illuminate how badly the relationships between Europe and the US have deteriorated since the Bush administration took over.
There is no "Old Europe". We outnumber the US in population( second to only China and India) and we are inches away from taking over the GDP(gross domestic product) and the PPP(purchasing power parity) race. Make no mistake, the US is still a formidable superpower both militarily and politically - but the age of decline has already begun on many levels. This is not a shock, all "empires" go through this phase, some manage to evolve, others deteriorate and crumble. It took a very short time for the USSR to fall to pieces(although the reasons for the fall were many and had been in effect for decades) compared to the Roman Empire which lay in its deathbed for centuries. what I'm saying is, you guys need to think very carefully whom you want representing you in the world community. Last week Bush mentioned the possibility of WW III in relation to the controversy over Iran enriching uranium. Is he nuts? Nobody goes out and says that. It's just not politically wise or even sane to have outbursts like that. In every political discussion with Americans it's constitution this and declaration of independence that, but since 911 you guys have been put in domestic "housearrest". The Patriot Act and many follow-up laws has seen to that. Through my travels in Europe I've met alot of cool Americans and they all had this wonderfull independent spirit about them. i'd hate to see that go - and I'm not only talking about the coming election either, I'm talking about the system, the out-of-control industrial lobbying, large elements of the military budget where even Congress is denied access because of "national security". In Europe there probably isn't a single country with at least 5-8 parties vying for power(UK excluded) but the US is only one step away from a one-party state. "A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." "In the Soviet Union, government controls industry. In the United States, industry controls government. That is the principal structural difference between the two great oligarchies of our time." Edward Abbey(1927-1989)
Your right but if the terriost decied to go to war with a country the only one who has the power to out right beat them is the US. I mean look at it this way the britians pulled out of Iraq what happened? subway bombings. After we pull out then what? They attack us? Probly not were pretty far away and our sercurity is tighter. But Europe yall are pretty wide open to attack. None of the countries have that strong of a military and becuase of how close the countires are the borders arent that great. And who would defend you the UN which means US soliders as most of them are US. Maby it wouldnt be to bad if we just told the world screw you and just went to the NA and made a pact with mexico and canada to keep out everyone else. we have the land and the man power to do it. No real country could attack us as our navy is the best in the world. Of coruse the terriost would use gruellia tacits maby a few major ones but lower compared to the rest of the world.
A republican president will keep this country together. The patriot act what it has not hurt me i care nothing for, for i have nothing to hide and i want to be safe. I mean unless you have something to hide why would you care about this.
I remember 911 vividly. I remember the shock, the disbelief. Then came the anger. I was, as all Europeans were, outraged on this attack on our closest ally for more than half a century. I also remember my grandfather telling me how he watched scores of Luftwaffe figthers flying over his house heading towards our capitol and I also know who answered the call to arms in the liberation of Europe. But... our relationship are undergoing change. Unfortunately. Russia exports more than 40% of their huge natural gas ressources to the European Union, historically and culturally Russia is more closely related to EU than EU and US. This tendency has been tenfold amplified through the inept attitude and actions of the current US administration.
Yes, the US navy bows to no foreign power, yes the US in a conventional war is the most powerful nation on the planet - but at what cost? You don't take down terrorist cells with an aircraft carrier, but with dilligent work made by special forces and counter-intelligence units. The military is like a huge sledgehammer, it's powerful, but it's not precise.
There was a huge pressure to do "something" after 911 and I think that this public need for some sort of reaction was highjacked by high ranking VIPs to promote their own political and especially industrial views/needs. That was the motive, now let's examine the method. How did we go from eliminating the terrorist threat to invading a country? Don't tell me it's about democracy and evil old Saddam because if that was the case you had your chance in the first desert war. Saddam was considered "reliable" in the sense that Iraq was considered volatile without the leadership of the dictator and if you say democracy and dictator and "moral and justified war" then you need to invade 3/4 of Africa where tyrants are plenty.
"The patriot act what it has not hurt me i care nothing for, for i have nothing to hide and i want to be safe. I mean unless you have something to hide why would you care about this."
I think this is a very very dangerous perspective. This is exactly what the architects behind this want the majority to think. It's like saying "all suspects of the state are guilty, otherwise they wouldn't be suspects, now would they?" The following quotation illustrates my fear of your view:
I fail to see how the qoute realtes to me. I am allowing the govt to listen to my phone conversations look at my e-mail detain immigrants and i dont have a problem with that.
Also our military is very prescise with our speical forces almost unmatchable by any other. If the US wanted to no one could stand aginst us in a war china russia not even the EU. We have 2000 miles of ocean and early warning systems to protect us.
I dont see how a republican will be this country as i dont think Bush has hurt it. We have been in debt we have been importing far more then we have been exporting for a long time not something that one presdient could fix.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Originally posted by Arndur Originally posted by fulmanfu
Originally posted by hazmats
The republcians got use into the war in Iraq.
Vast majority of democrats voted to go into Iraq too.
ron paul voted against it, hes a republican
ron paul isnt to heavy into republican ideas really he could be his own party as he doesnt go with either but inds never win.
i don't know about that. historically speaking, hes the only real republican running. non intervention used to be the republican way, bush even won on that platform in 2000. limited government, low tax was, and should be, the republican way. right now republicans aren't what they used to be. if they were they would be a hell of a lot more popular especially with younger people.
Comments
Technically we're a Constitutional Republic... forgive me if I take this thread to another level of discussion, but I feel it's an important topic. I know it may seem out of place for such Anarchist views when people are happily engrossed in their carnal and material pleasures, but I believe that who you vote for does not/will not change the direction we've already been steered towards before this Great Nation was even conceived. You feel like you have power in voting for who you'd like seated in the Oval Office, and agree with the changes they will/might make ~ but none of that matters. It's all a Great Show put on before you;
"Paul O'Neill - who was a member of the National Security Council as well as being in charge of fiscal policy - made a shocking revelation to Ron Suskind that not only are public events scripted, but even cabinet (and other) meetings within the White House with the President are scripted, where everyone but Bush has speaking parts. Bush's role is merely to nod or listen expressionlessly, aside from his occasional cryptic (or cynical) comments..." ~ John Dean (Worse Than Watergate)
Just listen to what some amazing thinkers through history mull over;
"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar." ~ Julius Caesar
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the Scoundrel." ~ Samuel Johnson
"The first panacea for a mismanaged nation is inflation of currency; the second is war. Both bring a temporary prosperity and both bring a permanent ruin. But both are the refuge of a political and economic opportunists." ~ Ernest Hemmingway
"Christianity and these organized religions as well as the corporate dominance of government's ~ they're there to erase your spirit of rebellion. That's their Modus Operandi. That's why they exist. They don't exist to take you to God or Heaven. There's very few enlightened people anywhere in the World. But what there is, is conformity, violence, subserviance to tradition, and untold sadism to the self and others, and there is the obvious control and subjugation of the true spirit of rebellion."
"The twenty-first century will be the era of the World Controllers... Under a scientific dictatorship, education will really work, most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution. There seems to be no good reason why a thoroughly scientific dictatorship should ever be overthrown." ~ Aldous Huxley (Brave New World Revisited)
"History has shown that what our government does to others today, it will do to Americans tomorrow." John Dead
"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country...corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war." ~ Abraham Lincoln 1864
A Corporate take over is worse than War? ....
"There is no such thing as an independent press in America...Not a man among you dares to utter his honest opinion. Were you to utter it, you know that it would never appear in print...I am paid to keep my honest opinion out of the newspaper for which I write...Were I to permit a single edition of the newspaper for which I write, to contain an honest opinion, my occupation..would be gone in less than twenty-four hours. The man who would be foolish enough to write his honest opinion would soon be walking the streets in search of another job. It is the duty of the New York journalist to lie, distort, to destroy, to revile, to toady at the feet of Mammon, and to sell his country, and his race, for his daily bread or what amounts to the same, for his salary. We are tools and vessels of the rich (International Bankers and their affiliates such as the C.F.R.) behind the scenes. We are the marionettes. These men pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, our lives, our capacities, are all property of these men - we are intellectual prostitutes." ~ John Swinton 1914 American Press Association, spoken after his retirement
Random Facts;
You know that on your Birth certificate, there lies, the Seal from the Chamber of Commerce...
By 2004, 160 Billion dollars have been appropriated toward the use of the Iraq War ~ that would be the equivalent of going to every US Citizen's door and asking for $25,000 each. How many could pay that, or would?
The symbol for the American Dollar "$" represent the ancient glyph/symbol for "Scourge." The definition of Scourge: "a whip or lash, esp. for the infliction of punishment or torture." or "a cause of affliction or calamity."
So I say to you;
There is no point in trying to work with what we have to make a better Country/World. It would be like walking into a Slaughterhouse that you work for and voted for a new President who would kill the animals in a more humane way or allow the livestock more pleasures/freedom ~ but you're still in a slaughterhouse. You need to break down what exists and start over. You can't build anything of strength or virtue that will last on a foundation of everlasting deception, and tyranny.
"The only sovereign you can allow to rule you is reason." ~ Richard Rahl
If you honestly were interested in a change then you will definitely vote for someone other then Hillary Clinton. Ron Paul is the front runner for some actual change, but he will never win.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Hillary FTW!!!!!
If you honestly were interested in a change then you will definitely vote for someone other then Hillary Clinton. Ron Paul is the front runner for some actual change, but he will never win.
I agree that Bill Clinton made mistakes - every administration has. I do not, however, think that Bush can blame the current state of our country on his predecessor. The Republicans controlled Congress during Clinton's presidency.
Clinton did make anti-terrorism efforts but he was blocked by the Republicans. In 1996, Clinton said "We need to keep this country together right now. We need to focus on this terrorism issue," when he was asking Congress to give him assistance to stop Bin Laden. The Republicans, led by Orrin Hatch and Trent Lott, denied his requests.
Ron Paul may have some good ideas, but do you really think he will be able to abolish the IRS? Most people I've spoken to consider Paul, at best, an eccentric ideologist who will never actually accomplish anything.
With that being said, I will not cast a vote for any Republican because they have caused too much damage to this country. So, I'm forced to choose between Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and John Edwards. Out of those three, I think Hillary is the logical choice.
................................
My current Guild Wars character:
Dauthix The Avenger (Paragon/Ranger)
Again we see Ron Paul destroy the competition!
Just for reference:
www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/candidates/
................................
My current Guild Wars character:
Dauthix The Avenger (Paragon/Ranger)
It is Clintons fault that Osama is still alive he was playing golf when we had a 20min window to capture him. He put off the CIA agent for 40mins. It is true. Alsoi think the war is worth it. We have libetraed a country all the stupid liberal stations want to show though is the cost or how many soliders have died. Please we have lost many less soliders then the vietnam war our last "police action". two soliders who came back talked about how the media says we are doing nothing over there yet we have given cities power where they had never had it before. Built schools and given people rights. Terroistis attacks droping in Iraq becuase the people there WANT us there. They no longer encourage or agree with the attacks on us becuase of what we have done for their country. If we pull out of the middle east whats stopping them from destroying Israel and then attacking Euprope and coming to NA. Cells in mexico have been discovered where they train people to come across the border and attack us.
I think a democrat is the worse thing that could happen to this country as it means pretty much a full withdrawel from Iraq asap and then they will just come here.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
We "liberated" a country under false pretenses. It's well documented that the Bush administration went to great lengths to create a link between Al-Qaeda and Iraq. Doesn't that concern you?
If Bush was really concerned about WMDs or aiding oppressed people, why didn't we move against North Korea? Kim Jong-il is a much worse leader and threat than Saddam Hussein was.
In the end, the entire war has been pointless: 30,000 American soldiers killed, our reputation ruined in the international community and increased oil prices....all for what?
................................
My current Guild Wars character:
Dauthix The Avenger (Paragon/Ranger)
And several million Iraqis died. However, you are forgetting 1 huge thing about Clinton's administration. He actually fixed the economy that Bush then ruined. At this point I would rather have someone who pursues fixing our own countries infrastructure and image, then pursuing dictators. I would actually vote for McCain, but it doesn't look like he will be nominated.
several million? lol where the hell do you get your information? Even the outrageously high estimates are under 1 million.
Iraq body count which does independent death analysis says under 100,000
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
oops I added a zero.
Please, the discussion of Iraq is almost pointless, just like who you're going to vote for, come next year. The motives for the war in Iraq and Terror is nothing like you can imagine.
Just check out Bush's executive orders post 9-11:
10990: Take over all modes of transport
10995: Seize and control media
10997: Control Energy
10998: Take over food resources
11002: Register Everyone in the Country
11000: Mobilize citizens into work brigades
11004: Abandon Certain urban areas by force
11921: Control wages/salaries, credit and flow of money
Public Health Security & Bioterrorism Act which became public Law..
Model Emergency Health Preparedness (MEHPA), among many things, gives rights to the state to arrest and vaccinate, even with untested drugs.
Constitutional lawyers and historians know these acts are purely illegal. There are not constitutionally valid at all. Most importantly they cannot be veto'd or changed or contridicted by the Congress or the People of the United States who put that Monarch in power...
"Government is an association of men who do violence to the rest of us." ~ Count Leo Tolstoy
Since the second World War the US has bombed 250 countries; China, Korea, Guatemala, Indonesia, Cuba, Congo, peru, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, Lebanon, Grenada, Libya, El Salvador, Panama, Bosnia, Sudan, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Iran etc
There have been more wars since the creation of the United Nations in 1948, than from the beginning of time up to 1948. These are real, full wars.
"If one values human life, one cannot value it's destroyers. Criminals are a small minority in any age or community. And the harm they have done to mankind is infinitesimal when compared to the horrors - the bloodshed, the wars, the persecution, the famines, the enslavements, the wholesale destruction- perpetrated by mankind's governments. Potentially, a government is the most dangerous threat to man's rights - When unlimited and unrestricted by individual rights, a government is men's deadliest enemy." ~ Ayn Rand
"We must all face the fact that our leaders are certifiably insane or worse." ~ William S. Burroughs
On nearby seismic geographical machines in New York there were several spikes of incredible force right before the percussion of the planes hitting the towers. It is quite obvious for those that still question, with proof flat in their face, that the towers were destroyed from within by explosives. Even Aaron Swirski (one of the architects of the WTC) said they designed the towers to withstand airplane collisions, "I designed it for a 707 hit, he said." The collapse of the buildings came as a complete "shock" to him and his colleagues. This is fact folks. Also let's dismiss the facts that multiple commercial planes were deviated from their professed courses for over an hour heading toward their target's ~ you think anyone doing their job correctly in the control tower would just shrug off planes going on their own courses. I'm not even going to go into more facts than that, I'm sure most of you have been barraged with these types of text-bites before and already made some firm opinions on what you think really happened on 9/11.
It's like when the Lusitania was sent into enemy territory as bait to be destroyed so we would enter WWI, or the attack on Pearl Harbor (where weeks before the attack Pearl Harbor was commanded to take down it's radar systems) which caused us to enter WWII. Or the torpedo attacks that entered us into the arena of Vietnam ~ when years after the war it was proven that no such attacks even happened. The list goes on for every War you can possible imagine.
Discussions of War and Politics severely are a waste of energy unless you're getting to the root of the problem~ The Origin of Evil. This unnatural plague is a product of civilization. Civilization is the cause of nearly EVERY disease and negative characteristic of man.
We know the problem - let's find the solution.
out of all the people running for president in 2008 the only one who i agree with the most if Ron Paul. While their are some issues i do not agree with him on over all i think he will do good things for the country.
Both the Republcian and democratic parties have failed use. The republcians got use into the war in Iraq. We elected the democratics to the Congress to help get out use, and so far they havent done anything to help fix the problem. Just been pilling up more and more problems. While Ron Paul is republcian he is not agree with his party for the most part. Watch some of the videos online and you will see what i mean. The mainstream media doesnt like him to much so they try to slash his name and people who support him and his ideas.
"Some of his supporters believe that 9/11 was an inside job by the American Government, others are white supremacists." Quote from Tom Baldwin from Washington.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article2821161.ece
Vast majority of democrats voted to go into Iraq too.
i think people like hillary simply because she is a woman. there is no other reason at all to like her if you actually pay attention to politics.
as a woman myself, it embarasses me.
Vast majority of democrats voted to go into Iraq too.
ron paul voted against it, hes a republican
IT WAS A ATTACK ON AMERICANS SURPRISE OR NOT WE WOULDVE GONE TO WAR.
But yeah you must be right our govt likes killing citizens so we can go to war..........
So tell me why did we enter the korean war or the first gulf war. How bout the civil war or the revoutionary war how the the mexican war. You said it went on for any war i can imagaine so tell me some crackpot theroy on why we entered those wars. Also i belive the offical country count if the war is somewhere round 183 so ummm how did we bomb 250 i know countries have been renamed or new formed but that many please.
As for the person who questioned me saying we liberated a country why dont we attack north korea. Well lets think about this yes he treats his country like crap but hes not gassing 100s of 1000s of people. Also they do have WMDs plus after the pullout from korea where we just have a small force now. We leave decisiones to NK SK china and japan. If you notice when korea was test launching their nuclear weapons the choice on what to do was left to those 3 countires we were a last resort.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Vast majority of democrats voted to go into Iraq too.
ron paul voted against it, hes a republican
ron paul isnt to heavy into republican ideas really he could be his own party as he doesnt go with either but inds never win.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Ask any European who they would like and they would perhaps differ on the person choice, but I guarantee you they would all be democrats. I can't even begin to illuminate how badly the relationships between Europe and the US have deteriorated since the Bush administration took over.
There is no "Old Europe". We outnumber the US in population( second to only China and India) and we are inches away from taking over the GDP(gross domestic product) and the PPP(purchasing power parity) race. Make no mistake, the US is still a formidable superpower both militarily and politically - but the age of decline has already begun on many levels. This is not a shock, all "empires" go through this phase, some manage to evolve, others deteriorate and crumble. It took a very short time for the USSR to fall to pieces(although the reasons for the fall were many and had been in effect for decades) compared to the Roman Empire which lay in its deathbed for centuries. what I'm saying is, you guys need to think very carefully whom you want representing you in the world community. Last week Bush mentioned the possibility of WW III in relation to the controversy over Iran enriching uranium. Is he nuts? Nobody goes out and says that. It's just not politically wise or even sane to have outbursts like that.
In every political discussion with Americans it's constitution this and declaration of independence that, but since 911 you guys have been put in domestic "housearrest". The Patriot Act and many follow-up laws has seen to that. Through my travels in Europe I've met alot of cool Americans and they all had this wonderfull independent spirit about them. i'd hate to see that go - and I'm not only talking about the coming election either, I'm talking about the system, the out-of-control industrial lobbying, large elements of the military budget where even Congress is denied access because of "national security". In Europe there probably isn't a single country with at least 5-8 parties vying for power(UK excluded) but the US is only one step away from a one-party state.
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government."
"In the Soviet Union, government controls industry. In the United States, industry controls government. That is the principal structural difference between the two great oligarchies of our time."
Edward Abbey(1927-1989)
A republican president will keep this country together. The patriot act what it has not hurt me i care nothing for, for i have nothing to hide and i want to be safe. I mean unless you have something to hide why would you care about this.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
yes bill would be my choice as well
"The new age is upon us, yet the past refuses to rest in its shallow grave."
lol of course ron pauls in the lead, why is he so popular in this forum?
"The new age is upon us, yet the past refuses to rest in its shallow grave."
A republican president will keep this country together. The patriot act what it has not hurt me i care nothing for, for i have nothing to hide and i want to be safe. I mean unless you have something to hide why would you care about this.
I remember 911 vividly. I remember the shock, the disbelief. Then came the anger. I was, as all Europeans were, outraged on this attack on our closest ally for more than half a century. I also remember my grandfather telling me how he watched scores of Luftwaffe figthers flying over his house heading towards our capitol and I also know who answered the call to arms in the liberation of Europe. But... our relationship are undergoing change. Unfortunately. Russia exports more than 40% of their huge natural gas ressources to the European Union, historically and culturally Russia is more closely related to EU than EU and US. This tendency has been tenfold amplified through the inept attitude and actions of the current US administration.
Yes, the US navy bows to no foreign power, yes the US in a conventional war is the most powerful nation on the planet - but at what cost? You don't take down terrorist cells with an aircraft carrier, but with dilligent work made by special forces and counter-intelligence units. The military is like a huge sledgehammer, it's powerful, but it's not precise.
There was a huge pressure to do "something" after 911 and I think that this public need for some sort of reaction was highjacked by high ranking VIPs to promote their own political and especially industrial views/needs. That was the motive, now let's examine the method. How did we go from eliminating the terrorist threat to invading a country? Don't tell me it's about democracy and evil old Saddam because if that was the case you had your chance in the first desert war. Saddam was considered "reliable" in the sense that Iraq was considered volatile without the leadership of the dictator and if you say democracy and dictator and "moral and justified war" then you need to invade 3/4 of Africa where tyrants are plenty.
"The patriot act what it has not hurt me i care nothing for, for i have nothing to hide and i want to be safe. I mean unless you have something to hide why would you care about this."
I think this is a very very dangerous perspective. This is exactly what the architects behind this want the majority to think. It's like saying "all suspects of the state are guilty, otherwise they wouldn't be suspects, now would they?" The following quotation illustrates my fear of your view:
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)
A republican president will keep this country together. The patriot act what it has not hurt me i care nothing for, for i have nothing to hide and i want to be safe. I mean unless you have something to hide why would you care about this.
I remember 911 vividly. I remember the shock, the disbelief. Then came the anger. I was, as all Europeans were, outraged on this attack on our closest ally for more than half a century. I also remember my grandfather telling me how he watched scores of Luftwaffe figthers flying over his house heading towards our capitol and I also know who answered the call to arms in the liberation of Europe. But... our relationship are undergoing change. Unfortunately. Russia exports more than 40% of their huge natural gas ressources to the European Union, historically and culturally Russia is more closely related to EU than EU and US. This tendency has been tenfold amplified through the inept attitude and actions of the current US administration.
Yes, the US navy bows to no foreign power, yes the US in a conventional war is the most powerful nation on the planet - but at what cost? You don't take down terrorist cells with an aircraft carrier, but with dilligent work made by special forces and counter-intelligence units. The military is like a huge sledgehammer, it's powerful, but it's not precise.
There was a huge pressure to do "something" after 911 and I think that this public need for some sort of reaction was highjacked by high ranking VIPs to promote their own political and especially industrial views/needs. That was the motive, now let's examine the method. How did we go from eliminating the terrorist threat to invading a country? Don't tell me it's about democracy and evil old Saddam because if that was the case you had your chance in the first desert war. Saddam was considered "reliable" in the sense that Iraq was considered volatile without the leadership of the dictator and if you say democracy and dictator and "moral and justified war" then you need to invade 3/4 of Africa where tyrants are plenty.
"The patriot act what it has not hurt me i care nothing for, for i have nothing to hide and i want to be safe. I mean unless you have something to hide why would you care about this."
I think this is a very very dangerous perspective. This is exactly what the architects behind this want the majority to think. It's like saying "all suspects of the state are guilty, otherwise they wouldn't be suspects, now would they?" The following quotation illustrates my fear of your view:
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)
I fail to see how the qoute realtes to me. I am allowing the govt to listen to my phone conversations look at my e-mail detain immigrants and i dont have a problem with that.Also our military is very prescise with our speical forces almost unmatchable by any other. If the US wanted to no one could stand aginst us in a war china russia not even the EU. We have 2000 miles of ocean and early warning systems to protect us.
I dont see how a republican will be this country as i dont think Bush has hurt it. We have been in debt we have been importing far more then we have been exporting for a long time not something that one presdient could fix.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Vast majority of democrats voted to go into Iraq too.
ron paul voted against it, hes a republican
ron paul isnt to heavy into republican ideas really he could be his own party as he doesnt go with either but inds never win.
i don't know about that. historically speaking, hes the only real republican running. non intervention used to be the republican way, bush even won on that platform in 2000. limited government, low tax was, and should be, the republican way.
right now republicans aren't what they used to be. if they were they would be a hell of a lot more popular especially with younger people.