Agricola1, I owe you an apology. After consulting with my guild, this disaster with boxes, codes, etc wasn't isolated but everywhere boxes are or suppose to be on store shelves. After inspection of several boxes at 3 different stores in my area, it is obvious something smells rotten. No one in my guild was able to get a box with the code and cds in it. It was either codes or cds, but not both. It may not have been intentional on SoE's part, but after the disaster with the release earlier this year with Vanguard and then how the PoTBS is going down now, something isn't right. Once with a major competitor in a year I can see as an accident. Now with the same stuff going on again with a competitor's launch, I don't know. Anyway, Agricola. Again, my apologies for getting on you earlier in the thread.
I just have to say...I think this is a really great post. It's nice, and refreshing really, to see people on the boards here at mmorpg.com that can deal with each other civilly. Too often, we turn our "discussions" into personal arguments, and can't look past our own points of view. Why we take these games so seriously, I'll never know. Hopefully, this serves as an example for all of us.
So, credit to you Shannia...that was a really nice thing you did.
Agricola1, I owe you an apology. After consulting with my guild, this disaster with boxes, codes, etc wasn't isolated but everywhere boxes are or suppose to be on store shelves. After inspection of several boxes at 3 different stores in my area, it is obvious something smells rotten. No one in my guild was able to get a box with the code and cds in it. It was either codes or cds, but not both. It may not have been intentional on SoE's part, but after the disaster with the release earlier this year with Vanguard and then how the PoTBS is going down now, something isn't right. Once with a major competitor in a year I can see as an accident. Now with the same stuff going on again with a competitor's launch, I don't know. Anyway, Agricola. Again, my apologies for getting on you earlier in the thread.
I just have to say...I think this is a really great post. It's nice, and refreshing really, to see people on the boards here at mmorpg.com that can deal with each other civilly. Too often, we turn our "discussions" into personal arguments, and can't look past our own points of view. Why we take these games so seriously, I'll never know. Hopefully, this serves as an example for all of us.
So, credit to you Shannia...that was a really nice thing you did.
Agreed, personal mud slinging is pointless although I do find it fun to read sometimes (hangs head in shame) I don't like to get involved with it myself.
Also it's rare on these boards to see someone that has the balls to admit they were mistaken, rather than stay entrenched and let it devolve into a "My dad can beat up your dad" fracas (although it does take two). It seems that despite having troubles with the game we have been following some of us can keep a civil tongue and a clear head. I'm glad we have Shannia posting on these forums,
Agricola
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Ok, after doing some research I admit there IS something to it, so sorry from me too for being rash. There is so much whining on forums these days, its hard to see when someone has valid critique.
As I see it, the preorder is *supposed* to be out at least as far as we *can* chose pre-order. I dunno who is responsible for Europe, but here in Germany no shop I asked has even heard of a pre-order. I thought it was a general delay, but it seems you can preorder in some countries, so if you are in "gods own country" you are blessed and the rest can go to hell?
I dont know *who* is responsible for that, but it leaves a bad feeling to be second best, what we non-US people are often enough these days in MMOs.
A generous, fast beta-key handout would be a good gesture to regain faith, IMO.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I wonder if the people whining in this thread know that SOE is only publishing the game for the NA and Euro parts of the world, Akela is doing Russia, and the rest of the world is currently in limbo looking for a publisher (Oceania I'm looking at you).
So, unless you live in NA or Europe, don't expect SOE to be trying very hard to get you the game... that's not their job.
I wonder if the people whining in this thread know that SOE is only publishing the game for the NA and Euro parts of the world, Akela is doing Russia, and the rest of the world is currently in limbo looking for a publisher (Oceania I'm looking at you). So, unless you live in NA or Europe, don't expect SOE to be trying very hard to get you the game... that's not their job.
Right...there job was to:
A) Create pre-order boxes with a music CD and a special code for the game.
Make sure those boxes get to the stores on time and ready to be shelved.
C) Promote the game enough that the stores know about the game, and get it on the shelves.
D) Get the boxes into stores in Europe as well as NA.
And, surprisingly, they've struggled on all 4 accounts. Their responsibility. Not FLS', or the gamestores.
But somehow, the people who point that out are whiners.....
Yep no luck in Holland either tried on-line and in a couple of local game stores,The main shop I normally get all my games did a search for me and 3 times he said"pirate`s of the what?"so doesnt look to good,Only about 6 weeks till the pre-boarding starts and doesnt look like I will be part of it shame really as I have waited for this game for a while now,Will probally just wait till the full game comes out and is reviewed and if all is well then will try and get a copy unless my local shop is still like"pirate`s of the what?"
If someone had came up to me in 1980 when I was on my Atari 2600 and said we will be playing games with thousands of people at the same time.I guess my response would have been,"but I only have 2 joysticks"
I wonder if the people whining in this thread know that SOE is only publishing the game for the NA and Euro parts of the world, Akela is doing Russia, and the rest of the world is currently in limbo looking for a publisher (Oceania I'm looking at you). So, unless you live in NA or Europe, don't expect SOE to be trying very hard to get you the game... that's not their job.
Right...there job was to:
A) Create pre-order boxes with a music CD and a special code for the game.
Make sure those boxes get to the stores on time and ready to be shelved.
C) Promote the game enough that the stores know about the game, and get it on the shelves.
D) Get the boxes into stores in Europe as well as NA.
And, surprisingly, they've struggled on all 4 accounts. Their responsibility. Not FLS', or the gamestores.
But somehow, the people who point that out are whiners.....
People saying that SOE as a distributer rather makes less money on a poor release then be making more money good release.
Yep no luck in Holland either tried on-line and in a couple of local game stores,The main shop I normally get all my games did a search for me and 3 times he said"pirate`s of the what?"so doesnt look to good,Only about 6 weeks till the pre-boarding starts and doesnt look like I will be part of it shame really as I have waited for this game for a while now,Will probally just wait till the full game comes out and is reviewed and if all is well then will try and get a copy unless my local shop is still like"pirate`s of the what?"
WoW Rick, SOE is doing a great marketing job for you.
Orphes, we don't know what deal FLS and SOE struck over distribution but my guess is part of the deal involves SOE getting a small percentage from each box sold. The trouble that I see is that the pre-order box is only $5-$10 so SOE is getting a minnimal amount from sales, if anything. That is why I reckon the pre-orders have been screwed up so badly, SOE just don't give a ****.
Smed looks at it on paper and for the Christmass season PotBS pre-order is bottom of the totem pole with EO2 expansion at the top. Which leaves us with the present situation, SOE dragging their heals and doing a lacklustre job. This is the only logical explination I have for it, unless you want to hear my conspiracy theory which I doubt you do. My hope is that SOE will do a better job with the standard box since they get more cash from it, but who knows?
Funny thing is that if you look at NC soft last month they were in a very similar situation to SOE now. AA canceled, GW expansion and releasing a new MMO Tabula Rasa. Also they had the same bush fires to deal with so how come everything went without a hitch with no BS excuses?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Orphes, we don't know what deal FLS and SOE struck over distribution but my guess is part of the deal involves SOE getting a small percentage from each box sold. The trouble that I see is that the pre-order box is only $5-$10 so SOE is getting a minnimal amount from sales, if anything. That is why I reckon the pre-orders have been screwed up so badly, SOE just don't give a ****. But preorder is kind of a good thing to hype up the sales aren't it? Smed looks at it on paper and for the Christmass season PotBS pre-order is bottom of the totem pole with EO2 expansion at the top. Which leaves us with the present situation, SOE dragging their heals and doing a lacklustre job. This is the only logical explination I have for it, unless you want to hear my conspiracy theory which I doubt you do. My theory is that they are doing it on purpuse to hype up potbs even more, so when people get hold of the box and get into the servers and they working good, polished, and all that shit. People will be so overly happy that they praise SOE as the original set expectations was so low starting with the preorder box story. My hope is that SOE will do a better job with the standard box since they get more cash from it, but who knows? Funny thing is that if you look at NC soft last month they were in a very similar situation to SOE now. AA canceled, GW expansion and releasing a new MMO Tabula Rasa. Also they had the same bush fires to deal with so how come everything went without a hitch with no BS excuses?
Could be so If I use myself as an example I have preorder alot of times. But I think this is the first time I get a 'good' thing with the box or for that matter a box. My preorder mostly is/was like the store will send the game so it automagically drops into my mailbox on release day.
As for NCsoft did it go without a hitch or is it so that there (yet) are no antiNCfanclub hype kind of thing.
Orphes, are saying that SOE are deliberately lowering our expectations and peeving us all of inorder to hype the game? Well I don't claim to be any expert in marketing computer software but that sounds pretty insane to me. However if that is SOEs goal I must say that they are succeeding superbly, by January they'll have most of us so peeved off and annoyed that our expectations shall be rock bottom. In retrospect they should've used this marketing strategy with Vanguard, yes getting boxes on shelves was really the death blow for that game!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Orphes, are saying that SOE are deliberately lowering our expectations and peeving us all of inorder to hype the game? Well I don't claim to be any expert in marketing computer software but that sounds pretty insane to me. However if that is SOEs goal I must say that they are succeeding superbly, by January they'll have most of us so peeved off and annoyed that our expectations shall be rock bottom. In retrospect they should've used this marketing strategy with Vanguard, yes getting boxes on shelves was really the death blow for that game!
I can't but agree with you. If they didn't put VG on the shelves it would have been a smash hit.
But I mean as I stated the progress with preorder and all it' naturall to think that it is in SOE's interests that it should work fine.
I wonder if the people whining in this thread know that SOE is only publishing the game for the NA and Euro parts of the world, Akela is doing Russia, and the rest of the world is currently in limbo looking for a publisher (Oceania I'm looking at you). So, unless you live in NA or Europe, don't expect SOE to be trying very hard to get you the game... that's not their job.
Right...there job was to:
A) Create pre-order boxes with a music CD and a special code for the game.
Make sure those boxes get to the stores on time and ready to be shelved.
C) Promote the game enough that the stores know about the game, and get it on the shelves.
D) Get the boxes into stores in Europe as well as NA.
And, surprisingly, they've struggled on all 4 accounts. Their responsibility. Not FLS', or the gamestores.
But somehow, the people who point that out are whiners.....
People saying that SOE as a distributer rather makes less money on a poor release then be making more money good release.
Those people are... ?
....paranoid weirdos.
But, that was neither the group that the poster was talking about, nor the majority of the posters in this thread anyway.
So, if you'd like to group all of the people with concerns, legit or illegit, into the same group, as that other poster did, by all means, go ahead.
It just doesn't really fit well into the reasonable discussion the rest of us were having.
I wonder if the people whining in this thread know that SOE is only publishing the game for the NA and Euro parts of the world, Akela is doing Russia, and the rest of the world is currently in limbo looking for a publisher (Oceania I'm looking at you). So, unless you live in NA or Europe, don't expect SOE to be trying very hard to get you the game... that's not their job.
Right...there job was to:
A) Create pre-order boxes with a music CD and a special code for the game.
Make sure those boxes get to the stores on time and ready to be shelved.
C) Promote the game enough that the stores know about the game, and get it on the shelves.
D) Get the boxes into stores in Europe as well as NA.
And, surprisingly, they've struggled on all 4 accounts. Their responsibility. Not FLS', or the gamestores.
But somehow, the people who point that out are whiners.....
People saying that SOE as a distributer rather makes less money on a poor release then be making more money good release.
Those people are... ?
....paranoid weirdos.
But, that was neither the group that the poster was talking about, nor the majority of the posters in this thread anyway.
So, if you'd like to group all of the people with concerns, legit or illegit, into the same group, as that other poster did, by all means, go ahead.
It just doesn't really fit well into the reasonable discussion the rest of us were having.
I can't honestly really understand how you can reply like that?
It's a discussion my question was a reflection, a thougth. The topic is still still the same, people are saying that SOE amkes this intentional. Maybe you didn't maybe you did, maybe agricola1 does and maybe he don't. It is still a perfectly alright question to ask not unreasonable or anything. The unreasonable with this would be your reply to it.
Note that doesn't apply to Aus/NZ where there are separate deals afoot with regards to the PotBS version.
I live in Australia. With distribution in australia is a pre-order available? In what form, in store or online? What company would one purchause though for either sale? And si there anyone but D2D for digital because I am out of their licensed area. EBgames stores maybe, but they have no information regarding the game or pre-order as yet (I rang), and as australia biggest games stores i thought they would have. They are owned by Gamestop who is a retailed of Potbs.
Also, Gamestop claims a release of 21st of Jan, Amazon claims 31st Jan, and Bestbuy, 23rd Jan, CompUSA is out of pre-orders, and Frys dont even have the title available. These are the companys that the SOE website sent me to to purchase the retail pre-order. confused. They all offer a 15 day pre-boarding pass, but all have different dates? So i am assuming game goes live feb 15th?
I have had billing problems with station before so am very hesitant to purchase direct off of them. Anyone have any info for me?
Eve Trial <- Try 14 days of Eve for FREE Im against SOE
Note that doesn't apply to Aus/NZ where there are separate deals afoot with regards to the PotBS version.
I live in Australia. With distribution in australia is a pre-order available? In what form, in store or online? What company would one purchause though for either sale? And si there anyone but D2D for digital because I am out of their licensed area. EBgames stores maybe, but they have no information regarding the game or pre-order as yet (I rang), and as australia biggest games stores i thought they would have. They are owned by Gamestop who is a retailed of Potbs.
Also, Gamestop claims a release of 21st of Jan, Amazon claims 31st Jan, and Bestbuy, 23rd Jan, CompUSA is out of pre-orders, and Frys dont even have the title available. These are the companys that the SOE website sent me to to purchase the retail pre-order. confused. They all offer a 15 day pre-boarding pass, but all have different dates? So i am assuming game goes live feb 15th?
I have had billing problems with station before so am very hesitant to purchase direct off of them. Anyone have any info for me?
Just to try and help clear up some confusion, the pre-order = the boarding party which allows you to start 15 days early and keep your char (level cap at 20 I think) when the game goes live. You get an ingame parrot and special sword (it looks different nothing else) and a music disc, however you get none of those extras with the downloaded version just the head start.
Once you've purchased the pre-order/boarding party (costs no more than 10 US dollars) after the 21st you must purchase the standard game box to continue playing. So if it's advertised as starting on the 21st or later it isn't the pre-order boarding party. They're asking you to pre-order the standard box.
So the boarding party should start on the 7th of January, however I don't know who's distributing them in your region you'll need Rick to answer that. I hope that helped a little.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
It's worth posting this here (from the live chat):
<MMORPG_Taera> Bountytaker :asks: Are you satisfied with the distribution of the pre-order, and, if not, will you be taking any actions?
...
<[FLS]Rev> Frankly it's been frustrating. Neither we nor SOE have much ability to affect either the stocking or the level of awareness at any given store. If you've been to a dedicated games retailer in the last year or so, you've probably realized that PC titles are not a big priority for them in any event. That plus the heavy Christmas release schedule of major titles has made it an uphill climb.
<[FLS]Rev> Retailers have limited space to display new stuff. For Christmas, they are prioritizing $50-$60 major titles on everyone's wish list.
<[FLS]Rev> They aren't going to prioritize a $10 preorder box for a PC title coming out after Christmas.
<[FLS]Rev> So we collect reports from customers of problems with specific stores and we pass those on to SOE, who in turn forwards them to their contacts at the national management level.
<[FLS]Rev> That's the best we can do for now. We discuss this just about every day and progress is happening here and there.
<[FLS]Rev> But in the end, it's just hard to beat some sense into every junior assistant manager intern trainee at every store across the country.
<[FLS]Rev> We'll continue posting updates to our site as more solutions become available.
And this on marketing:
<MMORPG_Taera> Bountytaker :asks: There are less than 60 days to release...where's the marketing campaign been?
<[FLS]Rev> Print ads are heading out to magazines shortly. We've been reviewing them and they look pretty darn cool.
<[FLS]Rev> When the open beta starts, we will have online ads going up on a whole bunch of sites.
<[FLS]Rev> There are basically two big marketing pushes to come. One is online, for the open beta. The other is for the retail box launch, which will include both online and print.
<[FLS]Rev> What we aren't doing is running a lot of marketing right now, because A) You can't come play the open beta and You can't go buy the real game. When each of those things is no longer true, the marketing dollars start flowing.
It's worth posting this here (from the live chat): <MMORPG_Taera> Bountytaker :asks: Are you satisfied with the distribution of the pre-order, and, if not, will you be taking any actions?
...
<[FLS]Rev> Frankly it's been frustrating. Neither we nor SOE have much ability to affect either the stocking or the level of awareness at any given store. If you've been to a dedicated games retailer in the last year or so, you've probably realized that PC titles are not a big priority for them in any event. That plus the heavy Christmas release schedule of major titles has made it an uphill climb. <[FLS]Rev> Retailers have limited space to display new stuff. For Christmas, they are prioritizing $50-$60 major titles on everyone's wish list.
<[FLS]Rev> They aren't going to prioritize a $10 preorder box for a PC title coming out after Christmas. <[FLS]Rev> So we collect reports from customers of problems with specific stores and we pass those on to SOE, who in turn forwards them to their contacts at the national management level.
<[FLS]Rev> That's the best we can do for now. We discuss this just about every day and progress is happening here and there.
<[FLS]Rev> But in the end, it's just hard to beat some sense into every junior assistant manager intern trainee at every store across the country.
<[FLS]Rev> We'll continue posting updates to our site as more solutions become available.
And this on marketing: <MMORPG_Taera> Bountytaker :asks: There are less than 60 days to release...where's the marketing campaign been?
<[FLS]Rev> Print ads are heading out to magazines shortly. We've been reviewing them and they look pretty darn cool.
<[FLS]Rev> When the open beta starts, we will have online ads going up on a whole bunch of sites.
<[FLS]Rev> There are basically two big marketing pushes to come. One is online, for the open beta. The other is for the retail box launch, which will include both online and print.
<[FLS]Rev> What we aren't doing is running a lot of marketing right now, because A) You can't come play the open beta and You can't go buy the real game. When each of those things is no longer true, the marketing dollars start flowing.
Yeah...I guess I thought that with some time since the last real dev response, maybe the answers had changed a bit. But, no, they haven't. It's still the fault of the game stores, and no blame rests witht the developer or the publisher.
So, even though the publisher has the process "down cold", any issues with boxes not making shelves is not their fault. Even though plenty of boxes didn't get the code and the cd put in them, it's not their fault. Even though stores have heard of PotC, but not PotBS, it's not their fault. And, even though the developers themselves picked a release date to avoid the Christmas crunch, the fact that the pre-order boxes were released in the middle of that very same crunch is clearly not their fault.
To summarize, the ignorant, console loving, psp playing, gamestore assistant managers are the bane of us all...and are especially difficult for a well funded, extremely experienced, multi-game, publishing company to handle.
The marketing part I was kind of surprised about. That certainly wasn't the answer I expected. They talked about marketing the game in new/different ways a LONG time ago. The fact that they are waiting until an open beta seems odd. After all, how many MMO's wait for the open beta to start getting their ads in magazines? Even terrible games with crappy betas and lauches (or non-launches) have had ads for months and months in magazines. My favorite example, with respect to PotBS was/is GnH and PC Gamer. GnH was on PC Gamers "release meter" for months and months. Even after it was delayed, it was on there. Heck, due to the publishing schedule, it was on the list in the magazine AFTER it was cancelled. PotBS has NEVER been on the release meter. Not even after it was picked up by the SAME publisher as GnH. That's a poor marketing job.
There were so many opportunities over the last year to market this game. The hype around the PotC movie, pirate conventions and fan faires, talk like a pirate day, not one, not two, but three potential release times, the push back of AoC, the push back of WAR....and yet, the coverage has been non-existant.
.....because the best/only time to promote an mmo is when there's an open beta to play?!?!
I thought SOE were supposed to be the marketing and distribution geniuses and giants of the industry? That's what Rick kept saying and why they partnered with SOE.
[quote][i]Originally posted by RedwoodSap[/i] [b]I thought SOE were supposed to be the marketing and distribution geniuses and giants of the industry? That's what Rick kept saying and why they partnered with SOE.[/b][/quote]
Well look at how well SOE distributes their new EQ2 expansion in Europe, only place to get it is amazon.co.uk .
I'm pretty sure budget has a lot to do with this. FLS didnt partner with SOE untill recently. And before that, they were sole controllers of POTBS. They likely didnt market thier product since they may not have had the funding or the projected budget to do it. Its a choice of bringing a CM aboard and try using word of mouth marketing, which they have been doing vs magazine and online ads.
I'm very sure FLS people thought about it before they got thier hands dirty with SOE.
And whats up with this stuff about the pre-order boxes coming w/o CDs and keys? Is there an official source of this or just a rumor spread by SOE haters(I played SWG pre-CU started pub 5 and was scorned myself)?
I'm pretty sure budget has a lot to do with this. FLS didnt partner with SOE untill recently. And before that, they were sole controllers of POTBS. They likely didnt market thier product since they may not have had the funding or the projected budget to do it. Its a choice of bringing a CM aboard and try using word of mouth marketing, which they have been doing vs magazine and online ads. I'm very sure FLS people thought about it before they got thier hands dirty with SOE. And whats up with this stuff about the pre-order boxes coming w/o CDs and keys? Is there an official source of this or just a rumor spread by SOE haters(I played SWG pre-CU started pub 5 and was scorned myself)?
No there have been quite a few people stating that they've bought pre-order boxes without key codes and/or music CDs.
FLS may well have thought about it before joining forces with SOE, but only now are they understanding the true power of the darkside.
MUAH HAH HAH!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Yeah...I guess I thought that with some time since the last real dev response, maybe the answers had changed a bit. But, no, they haven't. It's still the fault of the game stores, and no blame rests witht the developer or the publisher. So, even though the publisher has the process "down cold", ... <snip> The marketing part I was kind of surprised about. ...There were so many opportunities over the last year to market this game. The hype around the PotC movie, pirate conventions and fan faires, talk like a pirate day, not one, not two, but three potential release times, the push back of AoC, the push back of WAR....and yet, the coverage has been non-existant. <snip> .....because the best/only time to promote an mmo is when there's an open beta to play?!?!
Weird answer, IMO.
I agree 100% bountytaker.
I deliberately left comment out of my post so that no-one could accuse me of having an axe to grind against FLS or SOE (which I don't BTW)
Comments
I just have to say...I think this is a really great post. It's nice, and refreshing really, to see people on the boards here at mmorpg.com that can deal with each other civilly. Too often, we turn our "discussions" into personal arguments, and can't look past our own points of view. Why we take these games so seriously, I'll never know. Hopefully, this serves as an example for all of us.
So, credit to you Shannia...that was a really nice thing you did.
I just have to say...I think this is a really great post. It's nice, and refreshing really, to see people on the boards here at mmorpg.com that can deal with each other civilly. Too often, we turn our "discussions" into personal arguments, and can't look past our own points of view. Why we take these games so seriously, I'll never know. Hopefully, this serves as an example for all of us.
So, credit to you Shannia...that was a really nice thing you did.
Agreed, personal mud slinging is pointless although I do find it fun to read sometimes (hangs head in shame) I don't like to get involved with it myself.
Also it's rare on these boards to see someone that has the balls to admit they were mistaken, rather than stay entrenched and let it devolve into a "My dad can beat up your dad" fracas (although it does take two). It seems that despite having troubles with the game we have been following some of us can keep a civil tongue and a clear head. I'm glad we have Shannia posting on these forums,
Agricola
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Ok, after doing some research I admit there IS something to it, so sorry from me too for being rash. There is so much whining on forums these days, its hard to see when someone has valid critique.
As I see it, the preorder is *supposed* to be out at least as far as we *can* chose pre-order. I dunno who is responsible for Europe, but here in Germany no shop I asked has even heard of a pre-order. I thought it was a general delay, but it seems you can preorder in some countries, so if you are in "gods own country" you are blessed and the rest can go to hell?
I dont know *who* is responsible for that, but it leaves a bad feeling to be second best, what we non-US people are often enough these days in MMOs.
A generous, fast beta-key handout would be a good gesture to regain faith, IMO.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I wonder if the people whining in this thread know that SOE is only publishing the game for the NA and Euro parts of the world, Akela is doing Russia, and the rest of the world is currently in limbo looking for a publisher (Oceania I'm looking at you).
So, unless you live in NA or Europe, don't expect SOE to be trying very hard to get you the game... that's not their job.
A) Create pre-order boxes with a music CD and a special code for the game.
C) Promote the game enough that the stores know about the game, and get it on the shelves.
D) Get the boxes into stores in Europe as well as NA.
And, surprisingly, they've struggled on all 4 accounts. Their responsibility. Not FLS', or the gamestores.
But somehow, the people who point that out are whiners.....
If someone had came up to me in 1980 when I was on my Atari 2600 and said we will be playing games with thousands of people at the same time.I guess my response would have been,"but I only have 2 joysticks"
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/235780/page/8
A) Create pre-order boxes with a music CD and a special code for the game.
C) Promote the game enough that the stores know about the game, and get it on the shelves.
D) Get the boxes into stores in Europe as well as NA.
And, surprisingly, they've struggled on all 4 accounts. Their responsibility. Not FLS', or the gamestores.
But somehow, the people who point that out are whiners.....
People saying that SOE as a distributer rather makes less money on a poor release then be making more money good release.
Those people are... ?
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Orphes, we don't know what deal FLS and SOE struck over distribution but my guess is part of the deal involves SOE getting a small percentage from each box sold. The trouble that I see is that the pre-order box is only $5-$10 so SOE is getting a minnimal amount from sales, if anything. That is why I reckon the pre-orders have been screwed up so badly, SOE just don't give a ****.
Smed looks at it on paper and for the Christmass season PotBS pre-order is bottom of the totem pole with EO2 expansion at the top. Which leaves us with the present situation, SOE dragging their heals and doing a lacklustre job. This is the only logical explination I have for it, unless you want to hear my conspiracy theory which I doubt you do. My hope is that SOE will do a better job with the standard box since they get more cash from it, but who knows?
Funny thing is that if you look at NC soft last month they were in a very similar situation to SOE now. AA canceled, GW expansion and releasing a new MMO Tabula Rasa. Also they had the same bush fires to deal with so how come everything went without a hitch with no BS excuses?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Could be so If I use myself as an example I have preorder alot of times. But I think this is the first time I get a 'good' thing with the box or for that matter a box. My preorder mostly is/was like the store will send the game so it automagically drops into my mailbox on release day.
As for NCsoft did it go without a hitch or is it so that there (yet) are no antiNCfanclub hype kind of thing.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Orphes, are saying that SOE are deliberately lowering our expectations and peeving us all of inorder to hype the game? Well I don't claim to be any expert in marketing computer software but that sounds pretty insane to me. However if that is SOEs goal I must say that they are succeeding superbly, by January they'll have most of us so peeved off and annoyed that our expectations shall be rock bottom. In retrospect they should've used this marketing strategy with Vanguard, yes getting boxes on shelves was really the death blow for that game!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
I can't but agree with you. If they didn't put VG on the shelves it would have been a smash hit.
But I mean as I stated the progress with preorder and all it' naturall to think that it is in SOE's interests that it should work fine.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
A) Create pre-order boxes with a music CD and a special code for the game.
C) Promote the game enough that the stores know about the game, and get it on the shelves.
D) Get the boxes into stores in Europe as well as NA.
And, surprisingly, they've struggled on all 4 accounts. Their responsibility. Not FLS', or the gamestores.
But somehow, the people who point that out are whiners.....
People saying that SOE as a distributer rather makes less money on a poor release then be making more money good release.
Those people are... ?
....paranoid weirdos.
But, that was neither the group that the poster was talking about, nor the majority of the posters in this thread anyway.
So, if you'd like to group all of the people with concerns, legit or illegit, into the same group, as that other poster did, by all means, go ahead.
It just doesn't really fit well into the reasonable discussion the rest of us were having.
A) Create pre-order boxes with a music CD and a special code for the game.
C) Promote the game enough that the stores know about the game, and get it on the shelves.
D) Get the boxes into stores in Europe as well as NA.
And, surprisingly, they've struggled on all 4 accounts. Their responsibility. Not FLS', or the gamestores.
But somehow, the people who point that out are whiners.....
People saying that SOE as a distributer rather makes less money on a poor release then be making more money good release.
Those people are... ?
....paranoid weirdos.
But, that was neither the group that the poster was talking about, nor the majority of the posters in this thread anyway.
So, if you'd like to group all of the people with concerns, legit or illegit, into the same group, as that other poster did, by all means, go ahead.
It just doesn't really fit well into the reasonable discussion the rest of us were having.
I can't honestly really understand how you can reply like that?
It's a discussion my question was a reflection, a thougth. The topic is still still the same, people are saying that SOE amkes this intentional. Maybe you didn't maybe you did, maybe agricola1 does and maybe he don't. It is still a perfectly alright question to ask not unreasonable or anything. The unreasonable with this would be your reply to it.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
I live in Australia. With distribution in australia is a pre-order available? In what form, in store or online? What company would one purchause though for either sale? And si there anyone but D2D for digital because I am out of their licensed area. EBgames stores maybe, but they have no information regarding the game or pre-order as yet (I rang), and as australia biggest games stores i thought they would have. They are owned by Gamestop who is a retailed of Potbs.
Also, Gamestop claims a release of 21st of Jan, Amazon claims 31st Jan, and Bestbuy, 23rd Jan, CompUSA is out of pre-orders, and Frys dont even have the title available. These are the companys that the SOE website sent me to to purchase the retail pre-order. confused. They all offer a 15 day pre-boarding pass, but all have different dates? So i am assuming game goes live feb 15th?
I have had billing problems with station before so am very hesitant to purchase direct off of them. Anyone have any info for me?
Eve Trial <- Try 14 days of Eve for FREE
Im against SOE
Quit whining allready.
the game will be out when its out.
List of SOE lies
I live in Australia. With distribution in australia is a pre-order available? In what form, in store or online? What company would one purchause though for either sale? And si there anyone but D2D for digital because I am out of their licensed area. EBgames stores maybe, but they have no information regarding the game or pre-order as yet (I rang), and as australia biggest games stores i thought they would have. They are owned by Gamestop who is a retailed of Potbs.
Also, Gamestop claims a release of 21st of Jan, Amazon claims 31st Jan, and Bestbuy, 23rd Jan, CompUSA is out of pre-orders, and Frys dont even have the title available. These are the companys that the SOE website sent me to to purchase the retail pre-order. confused. They all offer a 15 day pre-boarding pass, but all have different dates? So i am assuming game goes live feb 15th?
I have had billing problems with station before so am very hesitant to purchase direct off of them. Anyone have any info for me?
Just to try and help clear up some confusion, the pre-order = the boarding party which allows you to start 15 days early and keep your char (level cap at 20 I think) when the game goes live. You get an ingame parrot and special sword (it looks different nothing else) and a music disc, however you get none of those extras with the downloaded version just the head start.
Once you've purchased the pre-order/boarding party (costs no more than 10 US dollars) after the 21st you must purchase the standard game box to continue playing. So if it's advertised as starting on the 21st or later it isn't the pre-order boarding party. They're asking you to pre-order the standard box.
So the boarding party should start on the 7th of January, however I don't know who's distributing them in your region you'll need Rick to answer that. I hope that helped a little.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
OK Aussies:
This is VERY IMPORTANT.
You need to read these posts:
http://www.burningsea.com/forums/showpost.php?p=653669&postcount=534
Misha (FLS) has at last said that it is NOT certain that Aussies / NZers will be able to use US / EURO servers.
http://www.burningsea.com/forums/showpost.php?p=654152&postcount=535
Now, having said that:
Note that Misha did NOT say "No". So we may have access to SOE servers - FLS don't know yet.
This is a contract issue.
We will have to wait on this and FLS, SOE and whomever is the Aussie Host will have to negotiate.
So don't panic. But there you have it.
You might also wish to browse the thread
http://www.burningsea.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34848&page=37
(posts 541, 542 and 543)
Edit: And I would suggest Aussies / Kiwis do not purchase on Amazon or EBay until this is resolved.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
It's worth posting this here (from the live chat):
<MMORPG_Taera> Bountytaker :asks: Are you satisfied with the distribution of the pre-order, and, if not, will you be taking any actions?
...
<[FLS]Rev> Frankly it's been frustrating. Neither we nor SOE have much ability to affect either the stocking or the level of awareness at any given store. If you've been to a dedicated games retailer in the last year or so, you've probably realized that PC titles are not a big priority for them in any event. That plus the heavy Christmas release schedule of major titles has made it an uphill climb.
<[FLS]Rev> Retailers have limited space to display new stuff. For Christmas, they are prioritizing $50-$60 major titles on everyone's wish list.
<[FLS]Rev> They aren't going to prioritize a $10 preorder box for a PC title coming out after Christmas.
<[FLS]Rev> So we collect reports from customers of problems with specific stores and we pass those on to SOE, who in turn forwards them to their contacts at the national management level.
<[FLS]Rev> That's the best we can do for now. We discuss this just about every day and progress is happening here and there.
<[FLS]Rev> But in the end, it's just hard to beat some sense into every junior assistant manager intern trainee at every store across the country.
<[FLS]Rev> We'll continue posting updates to our site as more solutions become available.
And this on marketing:
<MMORPG_Taera> Bountytaker :asks: There are less than 60 days to release...where's the marketing campaign been?
You can't go buy the real game. When each of those things is no longer true, the marketing dollars start flowing. 
<[FLS]Rev> Print ads are heading out to magazines shortly. We've been reviewing them and they look pretty darn cool.
<[FLS]Rev> When the open beta starts, we will have online ads going up on a whole bunch of sites.
<[FLS]Rev> There are basically two big marketing pushes to come. One is online, for the open beta. The other is for the retail box launch, which will include both online and print.
<[FLS]Rev> What we aren't doing is running a lot of marketing right now, because A) You can't come play the open beta and
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Yeah...I guess I thought that with some time since the last real dev response, maybe the answers had changed a bit. But, no, they haven't. It's still the fault of the game stores, and no blame rests witht the developer or the publisher.
So, even though the publisher has the process "down cold", any issues with boxes not making shelves is not their fault. Even though plenty of boxes didn't get the code and the cd put in them, it's not their fault. Even though stores have heard of PotC, but not PotBS, it's not their fault. And, even though the developers themselves picked a release date to avoid the Christmas crunch, the fact that the pre-order boxes were released in the middle of that very same crunch is clearly not their fault.
To summarize, the ignorant, console loving, psp playing, gamestore assistant managers are the bane of us all...and are especially difficult for a well funded, extremely experienced, multi-game, publishing company to handle.
The marketing part I was kind of surprised about. That certainly wasn't the answer I expected. They talked about marketing the game in new/different ways a LONG time ago. The fact that they are waiting until an open beta seems odd. After all, how many MMO's wait for the open beta to start getting their ads in magazines? Even terrible games with crappy betas and lauches (or non-launches) have had ads for months and months in magazines. My favorite example, with respect to PotBS was/is GnH and PC Gamer. GnH was on PC Gamers "release meter" for months and months. Even after it was delayed, it was on there. Heck, due to the publishing schedule, it was on the list in the magazine AFTER it was cancelled. PotBS has NEVER been on the release meter. Not even after it was picked up by the SAME publisher as GnH. That's a poor marketing job.
There were so many opportunities over the last year to market this game. The hype around the PotC movie, pirate conventions and fan faires, talk like a pirate day, not one, not two, but three potential release times, the push back of AoC, the push back of WAR....and yet, the coverage has been non-existant.
.....because the best/only time to promote an mmo is when there's an open beta to play?!?!
Weird answer, IMO.
I thought SOE were supposed to be the marketing and distribution geniuses and giants of the industry? That's what Rick kept saying and why they partnered with SOE.
[quote][i]Originally posted by RedwoodSap[/i] [b]I thought SOE were supposed to be the marketing and distribution geniuses and giants of the industry? That's what Rick kept saying and why they partnered with SOE.[/b][/quote]
Well look at how well SOE distributes their new EQ2 expansion in Europe, only place to get it is amazon.co.uk
.
I'm pretty sure budget has a lot to do with this. FLS didnt partner with SOE untill recently. And before that, they were sole controllers of POTBS. They likely didnt market thier product since they may not have had the funding or the projected budget to do it. Its a choice of bringing a CM aboard and try using word of mouth marketing, which they have been doing vs magazine and online ads.
I'm very sure FLS people thought about it before they got thier hands dirty with SOE.
And whats up with this stuff about the pre-order boxes coming w/o CDs and keys? Is there an official source of this or just a rumor spread by SOE haters(I played SWG pre-CU started pub 5 and was scorned myself)?
No there have been quite a few people stating that they've bought pre-order boxes without key codes and/or music CDs.
FLS may well have thought about it before joining forces with SOE, but only now are they understanding the true power of the darkside.
MUAH HAH HAH!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
I deliberately left comment out of my post so that no-one could accuse me of having an axe to grind against FLS or SOE (which I don't BTW)
But you said it nicely. Good questions too.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.