my thought's: Macroers should not be banned right away. GM's should give 3 warnings. on the third is a ban.
But, the developers should take the time to immediately fix macro exploits. end of story. It's up to the developers. So instead of banning paying players, they should address these exploits immediately and fix them.
Unfortunately there are few decent developers who do this, and will usually make their loyal fans and players wait a month for a patch. By that time everyone's macro'd up their chars and a whipe is in order.
Originally posted by Xaldor Joey.. Why do you feel it necessary to antagonize me? I am simply stating an opinion. Is that not what FORUMS are for.
Are you serious? If you think this is antagonizing and you're going to be this sensitive, you need not post on forums. You're complaining about 5 year old games being boring and you think this is some revolutionary believe? Come on now . . .
I am not complaining about five year old games. I did use AO as an examlpe, but it seems to me that all the new games coming out are going to be grinds, and with grinds you will inevitably get macroers. SWG is not a five year old game...it was supposed to be the next big thing (WoW EQ2)...and the game is chokked full with macroers....and to call me pathetic is being antagonistic...don't you think LOSER...Xaldor
Originally posted by Xaldor I am not complaining about five year old games. I did use AO as an examlpe, but it seems to me that all the new games coming out are going to be grinds, and with grinds you will inevitably get macroers. SWG is not a five year old game...it was supposed to be the next big thing (WoW EQ2)...and the game is chokked full with macroers....and to call me pathetic is being antagonistic...don't you think LOSER...Xaldor
Lol, if you think the word LOSER is going to effect me, you've got another thing coming.
As for AO not being 5 years old . . . ok, big deal. ITs not 5 years old but its an old game.
So essentially, you think we should do without grinds? It looks to me like grinds are going to be mixxed in with quests in most of the upcoming game . . .
In any game, especially a new one, if you have a limited amount of content and no way to generate random quests that will be meaningful to the storyline, you are going to be left with the grind. Grinding is part of this type of game. Work to get stronger.
When you first played mario brothers, did you have an unlimited amount of lives? Did you start out with fireball mario? No . . . You had to work to get to the end of the game.
My point is that these games are made for people to play for a long time. They are a social interaction as much as they are a game. Grinding to get stronger is always going to be a part of this genre. If the people are not made to advance somewhat slowly, then they will not learn how to use their class as well as if they suffered thru trying to figure out good strategies and management techniques.
I know it sucks that leveling seems like a function of time and sucks, but what do you propose? Level by doing quests? Would you rather play a game where EVERYONE does the same quests?
Competition? LDoN type zones in EQ2 will provide that somewhat.
Ask people on DAoC how bored they are. Maybe you should try some PVP.
My point is . . . not everyone is bored. With the hundreds of thousands of people playing to these games, you think that because a few people are agreeing with you, you are right.
Come ON!
Where can I Find your list of viable suggestions to replace the grind . . .? I'd like to look at it.
I agree that all RPG's have some sort of a "grinding system". that's just the nature of the beast. In order for your toon to get "better", you're going to have to do some things that get boring. I mean that's the way it is in life too...if I want to be a concert pianist, I am going to have to practice my ass off playing songs that I may not even like.
But this is a "GAME". It's suppose to be fun, entertaining, or challenging. Doing mining quests on eve, over and over and over and over agian, are neither fun, challenging, or entertaining. That is why people use MACROS. This is the point of this thread isn't it? "THOUGHTS ON MACROING". These are my thoughts, and I am entitled to an opinion...Xaldor
So essentially your cure is to take fighting out of a fantasy game? Hmm. Lets just let people play a tale in the desert and the rest who enjoy fighting play whatever is coming out next gen from the current products.
Originally posted by joeygates Interesting. So essentially your cure is to take fighting out of a fantasy game? Hmm. Lets just let people play a tale in the desert and the rest who enjoy fighting play whatever is coming out next gen from the current products.
You asked for a viable alternative. There is a viable alternative. You didn't ask for a cure.
Be more specific and less sarcastic and you might get answers suited to what you meant.
A tale in the dessert is very fun. I played it for a long time, its a great sense of community, and its fun (as long as you dont mind working with people)
As for the SWG "grind" the only craft that you can justify macroing in driod engineer. One of my friends Eakoa has dont both architect, and armorsmith and if you take it sasually and just make armor and just go for the fun not getting master then its a lot easier. it also helps if oyu dont go looking at all those guides and trying to max your exp/min ratio..
That just gets stressfull and you startt o worry that you not grinding fast enough or you could have been done by now.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
Interesting. So essentially your cure is to take fighting out of a fantasy game? Hmm. Lets just let people play a tale in the desert and the rest who enjoy fighting play whatever is coming out next gen from the current products.
You asked for a viable alternative. There is a viable alternative. You didn't ask for a cure.
Be more specific and less sarcastic and you might get answers suited to what you meant.
Actually Elite Member, I said:
"Where can I Find your list of viable suggestions to replace the grind . . .? I'd like to look at it."
I believe I said viable suggestion and was specific about saying to "replace the grind".
I dont recall saying anything about replacing fighting period. Pay more attention and YOU might be able to answer questions actually asked . . .
Originally posted by joeygates Originally posted by ianubisiOriginally posted by joeygatesInteresting.So essentially your cure is to take fighting out of a fantasy game? Hmm. Lets just let people play a tale in the desert and the rest who enjoy fighting play whatever is coming out next gen from the current products. You asked for a viable alternative. There is a viable alternative. You didn't ask for a cure. Be more specific and less sarcastic and you might get answers suited to what you meant.Actually Elite Member, I said: "Where can I Find your list of viable suggestions to replace the grind . . .? I'd like to look at it." I believe I said viable suggestion and was specific about saying to "replace the grind". I dont recall saying anything about replacing fighting period. Pay more attention and YOU might be able to answer questions actually asked . . .
And A Tale in the Desert replaces the grind altogether. This isn't brain surgery here, joeygates...if you wanted to talk about combat, you should have specified combat.
some games can steal your life on repetitive tasks
AC as it is now for example,
i started the game like 2-3 months after it's release, it was great and fun to play but i dropped it after 2 years because of the same lvl grinding over and over. My friend is still in there, plays about 8-14 hours a day, has like 16 lvl 123 chars(or was that 126, dont remember, you get to that lvl,6 you still get xp and raise your skills but no more lvls and no more extra skills) and most are quite high over that. He lives to U.S. timezone, which is a 6 hours difference for us.
For me, that's not much of a fun time,
mmorpg's are games, I actually am one of the ones that live in their own brain and imaginary world but even i like to hang out with my friends, especially my gf
actually, if it wasnt for my gf, maybe i could stay home and don't go out much but you know love, anyways.
I think someone must develop an MMORPG that wouldn't neeed macroing and grinding, make the infinity factor fun,
I don't wanna feel like sisyphus while playing a game(see: myth of sisyphus(might be double s))
Shit i'm bad... I self educated myself in ways of controlling feelings, now nothing feels like it's true... gotta be an assasin or sumtin.
In general I disagree with macroing, but if a developer is smart and makes a good product then it shouldn't be necessary or even possible. If you can macro then you should be able to and if the game requires it to compete then it's a flawed system, not person that's doing it. Some of us have a life and don't enjoy killing the same mob 10,000 times just to get a level to kill the same mob 25,000 times.
I think too much of the responsibility of this has been placed on the CONSUMER which has to pay to play a game that they really only get to minimally play in between bouts of inane grinding. The key is in endless character development without making it feel like it's taking forever. It's possible, just hasn't really been balanced out yet. I give it about 5 years before we see an MMORPG capable of this.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
Originally posted by joeygates Interesting.So essentially your cure is to take fighting out of a fantasy game? Hmm. Lets just let people play a tale in the desert and the rest who enjoy fighting play whatever is coming out next gen from the current products.
You asked for a viable alternative. There is a viable alternative. You didn't ask for a cure. Be more specific and less sarcastic and you might get answers suited to what you meant.
Actually Elite Member, I said: "Where can I Find your list of viable suggestions to replace the grind . . .? I'd like to look at it." I believe I said viable suggestion and was specific about saying to "replace the grind". I dont recall saying anything about replacing fighting period. Pay more attention and YOU might be able to answer questions actually asked . . .
And A Tale in the Desert replaces the grind altogether. This isn't brain surgery here, joeygates...if you wanted to talk about combat, you should have specified combat.
I agree. It isnt rocket science. Maybe I should have specified combat . . . but I didn't think anyone with half a brain in their skull would actually think, when we're all talking about just changing current games, that I'd mean to completely replace the game.
Your solution was not to remove the grind. It was to make a completely new game. Again. I asked for suggestions on how to remove the grind. If you're not smart enough to realize I didn't mean to play a new game altogether, then that is your malfunction . . . not mine.
Originally posted by joeygates Your solution was not to remove the grind. It was to make a completely new game. Again. I asked for suggestions on how to remove the grind. If you're not smart enough to realize I didn't mean to play a new game altogether, then that is your malfunction . . . not mine.
The best way to know when a person realized they have lost their argument is when they descent into personal attacks. Enjoy the rest of the show.
Originally posted by joeygates Your solution was not to remove the grind. It was to make a completely new game. Again. I asked for suggestions on how to remove the grind. If you're not smart enough to realize I didn't mean to play a new game altogether, then that is your malfunction . . . not mine.
The best way to know when a person realized they have lost their argument is when they descent into personal attacks. Enjoy the rest of the show.
Lol! I'm laughing at 2 things. One, because you obviously need some sort of victory attached to this. Ok, I'll give you it. You win big fella! I asked for suggestions to change current games so they remove the grind and you give me a link to some totally different game. Yeah . . . you definitely win. What was I thinking?
And personal attacks? My, you're the sensitive one aren't you? Ya know, I'm 26 years old and in the short amount of time I've been alive, guys have become so much more sensitive. But its ok . . . you get the big win!! WOO HOO!!!
If a game needs macroing, it means the dev's screwed up something. Poor game design is making a set of action so repeatable, so predicable, a macro's could be used to preform that action.
Dev's try to assault macro users for there lack of foresight, testing, and design.
A good game is one in witch using a macro, would add no advanage to non-macro users.
-=-=-=-=- "We're a game that's focused on grouping and on solo play, you know, more group oriented, more solo play..." John Blakely Senior lead for EQ2. Link
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.
-=-=-=-=- Achievers realise that killers as a concept are necessary in order to make achievement meaningful and worthwhile (there being no way to "lose" the game if any fool can "win" just by plodding slowly unchallenged). -bartle
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.
I think macroing is great in some games. I.E. Ultima Online. In UO, to use a skill, you could either go through the Skills link and find the skills in a list of about 100 skills or so and then click the skill. There is some logic to the way the skills are listed, but it would be much easier to hit "CTRL-T". It comes in handy when you're casting spells or using bandages. It would be hard to win a battle without them.
But unattended macroing is where it gets out of hand. Unattended macroers just leave their computer and they're gaining more skill than ever. I remember seeing many illegal programs just for macroing! There were programs that could record your movements so you could see people in game walking somewhere and 10 minutes later they would walk back and repeat the whole process again, if you follow them, they might go out of town... that's when the fun happens.
Anyway, it is ridiculous to macro unattended but it's great to macro attended. People that are GM blacksmith after not even going through the pain and anguish of having to get there deserve to be banned. But there is nothing wrong with macroing attended. I think the companies need to do something about macroing, maybe limit it. Get rid of a few macroing options. That would put them in a struggle. I don't know what they should do, but they should do something.
Personally. One way to remove macroing and tedium is to rework the whole genre. No more repetitive, slow, combat. The combat is simple, boring, and repetitive.
Question. In single-player FPS's, why do you have fun killing the same things over and over again that start to get harder as well? It isnt because of community and end-game which alot of MMRPG's, thats their only fun. And in multi-player FPS's. What makes people play something like CS for about 5 years or so straight? PvP and community.
Truth is. Combat in MMRPG's are boring. They're simple and boring. This whole crap of adding in feats or whatnot so you can hit 1, and the character will do some leet looking move which you have no control over. Well....Its crap. Boring crap at that.
I played a game called severance: blade of darkness. The games combat system I really liked and could see it being added into MMRPG's. It was set in medieval era, having halberds, spears, swords, etc.
Usually as well you could have a shield, which sooner or later would shatter if took too much damage. Well the combat worked FPS like, when somone slashed or stabbed at you. You could stride out of the way, or block with your shield. This was all done manually, not a skill that did it for you. Then you had the chance to strike back when the guy was stunned from being deflected. You could do special moves in the heat of combat etc.
Personally I had alot of fun playing this game, not because of leveling up, but because the combat was fun and interactive. It wasnt hit button, sit back and watch TV until monster is dead. I want combat that is interactive, and fun. Which will remove alot of tedium. You then throw in PvP, good quests, sometimes random quests like in RPG"s where a peasant will run upto you and ask for help, which then adds onto other quests, etc.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didnt exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
Originally posted by En1Gma depends on the game really if yo're playing FFXI and you dont have macros, then you're screwed
Macroing should be bannable, because it effects to other players playing experience. I don't want to be forced to use macros - I don't want pay from entertaiment where I just watch how my computer is executing some boring loop (I see that enough in my work). However, I am not against macroing - if game have internal support it (for example SWGs scripting allows simple macros).
And yes - it is true that MMORPGs have currently "design deppression". All games seem to copy level treadmill from other games - and it is not fun. It is everyones own choice - do you want to pay from "entertaiment" where you need to repeat same simple and boring task forever? In my case, I will pay only if there is other content available (good group of players, intresting world, etc...).
MMORPGs are 2D/3D chat programs. Reason why they are so addictive is that inside game players are part of community. Leveling (or whatever it is called in game) is only one very good excuse to meet other players - good excuse to social interaction - good excuse to be part of community. Other reasons to be part of community (or form new community) could be for example building new house, arrange new party in bar, trying to find new cool clothes for your toon, form alliance against "evil" players, explore world, solve quest, etc. Most succesful games seem to have more good reasons to form these communities than less succesful games.
City of Heroes (CoH) has been good step towards more intresting "level treadmill". You don't need to repeat same simple task forever and you actually need to use your brains occasionaly. CoH have also great sidekicking feature that keep community together. However, CoH is missing other reasons to be part of community. When players get bored to fighting, same missions and have tried all possible character combinations - community dies, because it doesn't have reason to exist anymore.
WTB: DeusEx I MMORPG.
"I know I said this was my last post, but you my friend are a idiotic moron." -Shadow4482
Originally posted by Resetgun City of Heroes (CoH) has been good step towards more intresting "level treadmill". You don't need to repeat same simple task forever and you actually need to use your brains occasionaly. CoH have also great sidekicking feature that keep community together. However, CoH is missing other reasons to be part of community. When players get bored to fighting, same missions and have tried all possible character combinations - community dies, because it doesn't have reason to exist anymore.
Were you intoxicated when you said that? Because well....You do repeat the same simple task, and its the only same simple task, so overall. Its just 10X worse then something like EQ.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didnt exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
CoH is a miserable example as an alternative to repetitive gameplay. That's a real shame, too, because the game mechanics are compelling, just highly repetitive.
Crafting is so boring I do not blame people for doing any tricks they can. Probably took me a good 10 hours of pushing the same button over and over just to get 300 skill in WC. Wow that gets me a lvl 20 weapon. If I could get a macro I would do it, but your pushing the envelope when you say "any way of playing is valid". That shows your against macroing, because macroing versus using speedhacks, clientspies (like ShowEQ) is comparing apples and oranges. One makes the game less tedious the other is blantant cheating and negates skills. Crafting isn't skill based its patience based which has no purpose in a game where your suppose to have fun.
Comments
my thought's:
Macroers should not be banned right away. GM's should give 3 warnings. on the third is a ban.
But, the developers should take the time to immediately fix macro exploits. end of story. It's up to the developers. So instead of banning paying players, they should address these exploits immediately and fix them.
Unfortunately there are few decent developers who do this, and will usually make their loyal fans and players wait a month for a patch. By that time everyone's macro'd up their chars and a whipe is in order.
bye
I am not complaining about five year old games. I did use AO as an examlpe, but it seems to me that all the new games coming out are going to be grinds, and with grinds you will inevitably get macroers. SWG is not a five year old game...it was supposed to be the next big thing (WoW EQ2)...and the game is chokked full with macroers....and to call me pathetic is being antagonistic...don't you think LOSER...Xaldor
Lol, if you think the word LOSER is going to effect me, you've got another thing coming.
As for AO not being 5 years old . . . ok, big deal. ITs not 5 years old but its an old game.
So essentially, you think we should do without grinds? It looks to me like grinds are going to be mixxed in with quests in most of the upcoming game . . .
In any game, especially a new one, if you have a limited amount of content and no way to generate random quests that will be meaningful to the storyline, you are going to be left with the grind. Grinding is part of this type of game. Work to get stronger.
When you first played mario brothers, did you have an unlimited amount of lives? Did you start out with fireball mario? No . . . You had to work to get to the end of the game.
My point is that these games are made for people to play for a long time. They are a social interaction as much as they are a game. Grinding to get stronger is always going to be a part of this genre. If the people are not made to advance somewhat slowly, then they will not learn how to use their class as well as if they suffered thru trying to figure out good strategies and management techniques.
I know it sucks that leveling seems like a function of time and sucks, but what do you propose? Level by doing quests? Would you rather play a game where EVERYONE does the same quests?
Competition? LDoN type zones in EQ2 will provide that somewhat.
Ask people on DAoC how bored they are. Maybe you should try some PVP.
My point is . . . not everyone is bored. With the hundreds of thousands of people playing to these games, you think that because a few people are agreeing with you, you are right.
Come ON!
Where can I Find your list of viable suggestions to replace the grind . . .? I'd like to look at it.
Yes. And they have their opinions too. Don't take it so personal, and don't bite the flamebait.
Ok...Ok...let's just call a truce.
I agree that all RPG's have some sort of a "grinding system". that's just the nature of the beast. In order for your toon to get "better", you're going to have to do some things that get boring. I mean that's the way it is in life too...if I want to be a concert pianist, I am going to have to practice my ass off playing songs that I may not even like.
But this is a "GAME". It's suppose to be fun, entertaining, or challenging. Doing mining quests on eve, over and over and over and over agian, are neither fun, challenging, or entertaining. That is why people use MACROS. This is the point of this thread isn't it? "THOUGHTS ON MACROING". These are my thoughts, and I am entitled to an opinion...Xaldor
A Tale in the Desert
A Tale in the Desert
Interesting.
So essentially your cure is to take fighting out of a fantasy game? Hmm. Lets just let people play a tale in the desert and the rest who enjoy fighting play whatever is coming out next gen from the current products.
You asked for a viable alternative. There is a viable alternative. You didn't ask for a cure.
Be more specific and less sarcastic and you might get answers suited to what you meant.
A tale in the dessert is very fun.
I played it for a long time, its a great sense of community, and its fun (as long as you dont mind working with people)
As for the SWG "grind" the only craft that you can justify macroing in driod engineer.
One of my friends Eakoa has dont both architect, and armorsmith and if you take it sasually and just make armor and just go for the fun not getting master then its a lot easier.
it also helps if oyu dont go looking at all those guides and trying to max your exp/min ratio..
That just gets stressfull and you startt o worry that you not grinding fast enough or you could have been done by now.
after 6 or so years, I had to change it a little...
You asked for a viable alternative. There is a viable alternative. You didn't ask for a cure.
Be more specific and less sarcastic and you might get answers suited to what you meant.
Actually Elite Member, I said:
"Where can I Find your list of viable suggestions to replace the grind . . .? I'd like to look at it."
I believe I said viable suggestion and was specific about saying to "replace the grind".
I dont recall saying anything about replacing fighting period. Pay more attention and YOU might be able to answer questions actually asked . . .
And A Tale in the Desert replaces the grind altogether. This isn't brain surgery here, joeygates...if you wanted to talk about combat, you should have specified combat.
some games can steal your life on repetitive tasks
AC as it is now for example,
i started the game like 2-3 months after it's release, it was great and fun to play but i dropped it after 2 years because of the same lvl grinding over and over. My friend is still in there, plays about 8-14 hours a day, has like 16 lvl 123 chars(or was that 126, dont remember, you get to that lvl,6 you still get xp and raise your skills but no more lvls and no more extra skills) and most are quite high over that. He lives to U.S. timezone, which is a 6 hours difference for us.
For me, that's not much of a fun time,
mmorpg's are games, I actually am one of the ones that live in their own brain and imaginary world but even i like to hang out with my friends, especially my gf
actually, if it wasnt for my gf, maybe i could stay home and don't go out much
but you know love, anyways.
I think someone must develop an MMORPG that wouldn't neeed macroing and grinding, make the infinity factor fun,
I don't wanna feel like sisyphus while playing a game(see: myth of sisyphus(might be double s))
Shit i'm bad... I self educated myself in ways of controlling feelings, now nothing feels like it's true... gotta be an assasin or sumtin.
-----------------------
....must ....play .....WoW
In general I disagree with macroing, but if a developer is smart and makes a good product then it shouldn't be necessary or even possible. If you can macro then you should be able to and if the game requires it to compete then it's a flawed system, not person that's doing it. Some of us have a life and don't enjoy killing the same mob 10,000 times just to get a level to kill the same mob 25,000 times.
I think too much of the responsibility of this has been placed on the CONSUMER which has to pay to play a game that they really only get to minimally play in between bouts of inane grinding. The key is in endless character development without making it feel like it's taking forever. It's possible, just hasn't really been balanced out yet. I give it about 5 years before we see an MMORPG capable of this.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
And A Tale in the Desert replaces the grind altogether. This isn't brain surgery here, joeygates...if you wanted to talk about combat, you should have specified combat.
I agree. It isnt rocket science. Maybe I should have specified combat . . . but I didn't think anyone with half a brain in their skull would actually think, when we're all talking about just changing current games, that I'd mean to completely replace the game.
Your solution was not to remove the grind. It was to make a completely new game. Again. I asked for suggestions on how to remove the grind. If you're not smart enough to realize I didn't mean to play a new game altogether, then that is your malfunction . . . not mine.
The best way to know when a person realized they have lost their argument is when they descent into personal attacks. Enjoy the rest of the show.
The best way to know when a person realized they have lost their argument is when they descent into personal attacks. Enjoy the rest of the show.
Lol! I'm laughing at 2 things. One, because you obviously need some sort of victory attached to this. Ok, I'll give you it. You win big fella! I asked for suggestions to change current games so they remove the grind and you give me a link to some totally different game. Yeah . . . you definitely win. What was I thinking?
And personal attacks? My, you're the sensitive one aren't you? Ya know, I'm 26 years old and in the short amount of time I've been alive, guys have become so much more sensitive. But its ok . . . you get the big win!! WOO HOO!!!
Dev's try to assault macro users for there lack of foresight, testing, and design.
A good game is one in witch using a macro, would add no advanage to non-macro users.
-=-=-=-=-
"We're a game that's focused on grouping and on solo play, you know, more group oriented, more solo play..."
John Blakely Senior lead for EQ2. Link
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.
-=-=-=-=-
Achievers realise that killers as a concept are necessary in order to make achievement meaningful and worthwhile (there being no way to "lose" the game if any fool can "win" just by plodding slowly unchallenged). -bartle
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.
I think macroing is great in some games. I.E. Ultima Online. In UO, to use a skill, you could either go through the Skills link and find the skills in a list of about 100 skills or so and then click the skill. There is some logic to the way the skills are listed, but it would be much easier to hit "CTRL-T". It comes in handy when you're casting spells or using bandages. It would be hard to win a battle without them.
But unattended macroing is where it gets out of hand. Unattended macroers just leave their computer and they're gaining more skill than ever. I remember seeing many illegal programs just for macroing! There were programs that could record your movements so you could see people in game walking somewhere and 10 minutes later they would walk back and repeat the whole process again, if you follow them, they might go out of town... that's when the fun happens.
Anyway, it is ridiculous to macro unattended but it's great to macro attended. People that are GM blacksmith after not even going through the pain and anguish of having to get there deserve to be banned. But there is nothing wrong with macroing attended. I think the companies need to do something about macroing, maybe limit it. Get rid of a few macroing options. That would put them in a struggle. I don't know what they should do, but they should do something.
サ ー ス ベ ン
Personally. One way to remove macroing and tedium is to rework the whole genre. No more repetitive, slow, combat. The combat is simple, boring, and repetitive.
Question. In single-player FPS's, why do you have fun killing the same things over and over again that start to get harder as well? It isnt because of community and end-game which alot of MMRPG's, thats their only fun. And in multi-player FPS's. What makes people play something like CS for about 5 years or so straight? PvP and community.
Truth is. Combat in MMRPG's are boring. They're simple and boring. This whole crap of adding in feats or whatnot so you can hit 1, and the character will do some leet looking move which you have no control over. Well....Its crap. Boring crap at that.
I played a game called severance: blade of darkness. The games combat system I really liked and could see it being added into MMRPG's. It was set in medieval era, having halberds, spears, swords, etc.
Usually as well you could have a shield, which sooner or later would shatter if took too much damage. Well the combat worked FPS like, when somone slashed or stabbed at you. You could stride out of the way, or block with your shield. This was all done manually, not a skill that did it for you. Then you had the chance to strike back when the guy was stunned from being deflected. You could do special moves in the heat of combat etc.
Personally I had alot of fun playing this game, not because of leveling up, but because the combat was fun and interactive. It wasnt hit button, sit back and watch TV until monster is dead. I want combat that is interactive, and fun. Which will remove alot of tedium. You then throw in PvP, good quests, sometimes random quests like in RPG"s where a peasant will run upto you and ask for help, which then adds onto other quests, etc.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didnt exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
I voted yes, it should be banned.
Macroing should be bannable, because it effects to other players playing experience. I don't want to be forced to use macros - I don't want pay from entertaiment where I just watch how my computer is executing some boring loop (I see that enough in my work). However, I am not against macroing - if game have internal support it (for example SWGs scripting allows simple macros).
And yes - it is true that MMORPGs have currently "design deppression". All games seem to copy level treadmill from other games - and it is not fun. It is everyones own choice - do you want to pay from "entertaiment" where you need to repeat same simple and boring task forever? In my case, I will pay only if there is other content available (good group of players, intresting world, etc...).
MMORPGs are 2D/3D chat programs. Reason why they are so addictive is that inside game players are part of community. Leveling (or whatever it is called in game) is only one very good excuse to meet other players - good excuse to social interaction - good excuse to be part of community. Other reasons to be part of community (or form new community) could be for example building new house, arrange new party in bar, trying to find new cool clothes for your toon, form alliance against "evil" players, explore world, solve quest, etc. Most succesful games seem to have more good reasons to form these communities than less succesful games.
City of Heroes (CoH) has been good step towards more intresting "level treadmill". You don't need to repeat same simple task forever and you actually need to use your brains occasionaly. CoH have also great sidekicking feature that keep community together. However, CoH is missing other reasons to be part of community. When players get bored to fighting, same missions and have tried all possible character combinations - community dies, because it doesn't have reason to exist anymore.
WTB: DeusEx I MMORPG.
"I know I said this was my last post, but you my friend are a idiotic moron." -Shadow4482
Were you intoxicated when you said that? Because well....You do repeat the same simple task, and its the only same simple task, so overall. Its just 10X worse then something like EQ.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didnt exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
CoH is a miserable example as an alternative to repetitive gameplay. That's a real shame, too, because the game mechanics are compelling, just highly repetitive.