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General: MMOWTF - Pre Order Syndrome
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
This week in his MMOWTF column, Dan Fortier takes on the subject of pre-orders and whether or not we should be paying for them.
When we were little kids our parents would do their best to keep us from harm. They would yell “Hot!” if you tried to climb the fireplace or make you leave the kitchen if your tried to juggle the carving knives. Some things though can only be learned by experience and I don’t mean levels. Some people have to total their car before they learn to not drive like a manic, while others may require ten stitches before realizing that your bedspread is NOT a good substitute for a parachute. Pre-ordering an MMO may not be as dangerous as anything described above, but it can still be a great way to learn a lesson the hard way. This week the doctor is in and Pre-Orders are prepped and ready for surgery. Nurse! Scalpel and lots of Gauze!
Paying for a game before you get it is not a new concept. People have been pre-ordering things since cavemen would trade a small pebble to make sure they got the first dibs on the first fire stick before anyone else. Nowadays, pre-ordering an MMO usually involves some kind of gimmick or benefit that the folks who wait to read the reviews don’t get. It’s about as clever as those commercials that play all night long that tell you get a discount if you call in the next 15 minutes. What’s so wrong with paying more to get an edge over others you ask?
Read MMOWTF here.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Comments
Preordering is becoming the new cash cow for the unfinished MMO projects these days. I would not touch a preorder unless it was from one of the already well known developers with good track records, like Blizzard for example. A bad example of this was Pepetual Entertainment's cancelation of their Gods and Heros title, you have to persuade the reseller to give you your money back. Most of the benefits from preordering have little affect on the game, they are usually more for display than substance.
Card games associated with the game are another method of separating you from your money, again using specific cards to provide in game items. Personally I'd rather play the game then fool around with a silly card game myself.
Another new tactic to separate you from your money is the founding member trick, where you pay a sizable amount to be able to play the game without charge for the life of the game. A good example of a game gouging the public with this lately is Hellgate London, the game has mediocre reviews and limited replayability flagging founding members with possibly empty servers in the near future.
While most of these methods offer different ways for developers to increase their income, they are being misused by many of the less known publishers providing the genre with some black eyes.
Recently I had a pre-order for Hellgate from GameStop. When I went to go put a pre-order down for AoC and Warhammer on a giftcard, they reminded me that I had the previous pre-order for Hellgate, which allowed me into the beta, and wondered if I wanted to buy it. I told them the game was crap, and that the only reason I got the pre-order was for the beta, so I didn't spend $50 on a non-refundable game. They put the $5 back onto my gift card without me asking them to. I only noticed it when I walked out and took a glace at my reciet. I think that if $5 really matters that much, and people don't want to pay $50 for a game that looks interesting, but turns out to be
, just go to GameStop, and pre-order there. Also, if you end up liking the game, the $5 goes twords the purchase. Kind of a win/win there... except, you need to leave your basement to go there....
Ahaha this is one made me laugh. Pre ordering is nothing new and although some mention DnL for the pre ordering, this isn't the worse that happen as it did launch at least.
Many of you might not however remember the infamous Mourning MMO that never launched, took pre order but never refunded... and change ownership with promise we would get lifetime account but yet to hear about it still?
But then thats the risk with unknown company that start in this business, you cannot be sure that you'll get a game or nothing but if that can help the company to bring a finished product on the market then i'll gladly pre order their game if I like what I hear or see about it.
But when preordering is done founders club style, like it was done in Lotro, so that preorderers are given really significant advantage over others, I think what the seller is doing isn't much better than cheating. It's like someone coming to sell you a pig in a bag, and telling that if you buy it without looking at it it's cheap, but if you want to see the pig first you'll have to pay extra. I think that kind of thing shouldn't even be allowed.
Thanks for brining this up. I think I mentioned it in a post a while back. There really is no risk at all in pre-ordering from a Gamestop store. As explained above, it's really a rental fee of $5 usually which may get you into an early version of a game to see how it is. If you don't like what you see (and keep in mind, that what you see may or may not be in the final release), then you can always go back to Gamestop and ask to have your pre-order cancelled and have the money put toward something else, or a Gift card. I've been doing this for years now, and never bought a pre-order that I didn't like.
There are a couple gaming stores in town that will sell popular launch titles only to those who have preordered. I stopped going to those and now buy all my games exclusively from Best Buy, Walmart, or Target. I tend to get the game a day or two after launch date which is about when it arrives at the gaming stores.
Net result, I took about $1000 a year elsewhere because I got tired of hearing, 'You didn't preorder...sorry.'
On more than one occasion I also preordered and was told, 'Sorry, there were so many preorders we sold out, but we will have a shipment in three days." Meanwhile Best Buy has 20 copies on their display case.
Well there are the preorder never release scams like Mourning,The Chronicle,Gods and Heroes;
but more typically the unfinished, incomplete, buggy, crappy game releases like Vanguard, Roma Victor, DnL, etc.; which preordering at Gamestop et al won't protect you from being hosed.
Solution: NEVER PREORDER. If you have not tested the game yourself, wait for the reviews.
The idea of pre-ordering merchandise goes back quit a few years now... back before I started collecting comics near 20 years ago now. The concept then was to guarantee that you received a copy of a limited supply. The situation you discuss is completely to blame on the distributors for the stores. Why does Best Buy, Wal-Mart, and other stores have copies? My experience has shown me that the large retailers get favored over the smaller specialty stores in the quantity of a product they get shipped. Best Buy might order 100,000 copies of a game, and get 90% of them at lauch, but small specialty stores will order a 100 copies, and might get 50 at launch, most of which (if not all) went to pre-orders. (The numbers used are just pulled out of the air, and not reflective of actual statistics.) This is even more true for limited edition items, where people pre-ordering go on a waiting list, and aren't actually guaranteed anything. The other thing to look at with specialty stores: will they even stock the title or item if you don't pre-order it? The local Gamestop has one small shelf for PC games.
When you pre-order software from one of these places, there's usually a guarantee: get a copy of the software, or the deposit is refunded. This is a great practice for the retailer and the publishers, because it gives an indication of how well the game is going to sell at launch, and how many copies need to be cut and shipped to retailers, thus reducing costs and prices.
The concept of 'pre-ordering' a game that may or may not ship with no guarantees? Well, in the situation described in the article, I wouldn't call that preordering. You just bought the game, played it, and does it really matter if you get shipped a copy now? The 'safety net' of having reviews to read usually doesn't apply for at least a few days after the game is out, and then can the first reviews published be completely trusted? I don't feel that way. Unless the game takes 20 hours to complete, can you experience the game in a couple days to provide a solid review? (Yes, I know that the press is sometimes provided early releases so they can have reviews published, but these versions aren't necessarily the ones that get shipped.) Where the analogy of 'sky diving with a parachute' applies, in my opinion, only when you pay for the game from a publisher in full with no guarantee of refund or ship date, and no promises of even getting to play in beta.
Thanks for the wonderful laugh because the articlewas really nice way to make me smile.
I don't preorder anymore. Why bother when I can drive down to bestbuy and pick it up the day it comes out? Unless they give beta with pre-order, the only real reason to pre order anymore is to get some lame in game pet that doesn't do anything.
D.
I think pre-ordering is a despicable practice.
And Best Buy ripped me off with a pre-order. NEVER shop at Best Buy.
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WoW and fast food = commercial successes.
I neither play WoW nor eat fast food.
Too bad we get so attached to these games passion overrides common sense. They need to require a labeling on the sides of game packaging like on cigarette packages: Warnning The Surgeon General has found game prereleases to be hazardous to your psychiatric and monetary well being.
How exactly did they rip you off?
Best Buy, just like any other retail store that offers pre-orders has to give you your pre-order money back if you decided you do not want to buy the full version of the game. If for some reason the particular store you went to refused to give you your money back then it's your fault for not calling the corporate office & getting your money back.
And that is the reason that I do not share the viewpoint of the OP in this case. Pre-ordering a game does no cost you any more money & they always have some nice little perk like early access, beta access, a special title, etc.
If you decide you don't want to buy the game, you can always return the pre-order and get your money back. Most places don't even require you to return the actual pre-order box (Best Buy, Circuit City, Gamestop, EB Games, etc.).
Pre-ordering online is a different story. You're at the whim of whatever company you pre-ordered through in that case & if it was the Development studio... good luck with that.
Always pre-order from retail stores & you won't have anything to worry about. I always pre-order any game that I am interested in, just to get the little extra perk that comes with it. It doesn't cost me anything, so why not?
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
How exactly did they rip you off?
Best Buy, just like any other retail store that offers pre-orders has to give you your pre-order money back if you decided you do not want to buy the full version of the game. If for some reason the particular store you went to refused to give you your money back then it's your fault for not calling the corporate office & getting your money back.
And that is the reason that I do not share the viewpoint of the OP in this case. Pre-ordering a game does no cost you any more money & they always have some nice little perk like early access, beta access, a special title, etc.
If you decide you don't want to buy the game, you can always return the pre-order and get your money back. Most places don't even require you to return the actual pre-order box (Best Buy, Circuit City, Gamestop, EB Games, etc.).
Pre-ordering online is a different story. You're at the whim of whatever company you pre-ordered through in that case & if it was the Development studio... good luck with that.
Always pre-order from retail stores & you won't have anything to worry about. I always pre-order any game that I am interested in, just to get the little extra perk that comes with it. It doesn't cost me anything, so why not?
It does cost you something if the game is incomplete, buggy, and missing promised content. You can't return it to any store under those conditions, days and weeks later. Didn't you even read my first post?? Geez
Yes, you are correct that any store will not allow you to return an opened retail version of a game, but that has nothing to do with pre-ordering the game. If the finished game is still a buggy mess it would still have been a buggy mess regardless of if you pre-ordered it or not. Also you can still get your money back for the pre-order even after the game was released, as long as you didn't pick up the retail version of the game & used your pre-order receipt to get money off.
And most likely you still would have bought the "finished" game even if you didn't pre-order it. Pre-ordering a game does not force you to buy the retail version.
The point that I was trying to make was pre-ordering a game doesn't cost you any more then the retail box does, but you get a little extra from taking the time to pick up the pre-order box.
It seems like you are trying to say that either pre-ordering somehow makes a game worse then it would have been without offering pre-orders. Or that pre-ordering a game forces you to buy the retail version & not pre-ordering would somehow keep you away from the retail version.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Most NDAs are not over until retail release. By then if you have preordered, but not tested the game yourself, you will be stuck with it and wasted your money if the game is crap, since most people pick up their preorders the day of release, otherwise there would be little point in preordering. If you however wait a week or so after launch, and read reviews both by established gaming magazines and sites as well as individual beta testers opinions, you will know if the finished product is crap so as not to waste your money. Why is this a difficult concept to understand?
Pre-ordering a MMO is really a foolish thing to do these days. Especially when you consider the very unhealthy state of the industry currently, and the fact that SO many new MMOs are coming out in the next year that you know probably more than half are going to fail from the get go.
From a player's perspective, I'm giving you my recommendations. Of course, what I suggest you do requires patience, and is a NIGHTMARE for publishers, but it's in your best interest:
I recommend not only NOT pre ordering, but that you don't even bother with ANY MMO that is less than 6 months post release. Watch what happens and note:
1. Do they fix bugs? Or do they leave stuff broken and respond with "working as intended" (a SOE trademarked term) or do they promise fixes "in the future" (another SOE trademark)?
2. The community... Is it stable, is it growing? Did they open with 100K subs then plunge to 25K or even less in the first 6 months? Are the servers full or empty? Are they adding servers, or have they ALREADY merged servers? You don't want to invest your time into a dying community, regardless of how you like the game. A game that has had server merges in the first 6 months is unhealthy and unlikely to survive.
3. Content... If the Devs are competent or the publisher committed to the game, the first 6 months should have seen some significant content addition, perhaps even an expansion. If it hasn't, then you know it's a dud, and likely won't have much added to it. Any MMO that doesn't have at least one expansion a year, be it free or pay, is never going to deliver enough new things to do and major new systems to the game to keep it's community interested.
4. Radical changes... Did the first 6 months see the game as originally released "Get NGE'd"? It's a no brainer that you should avoid games that see radical changes made, and to avoid as a general rule, publishers who engage in the practice. MMOs are about commitment and time investment. if every 6 months "up becomes down" then you know that the game will only give you anguish, not pleasure. See SOE and SWG: NGE... Changes to games should be additions, not subtractions.
5. Check the message boards... No one knows more about the health of a MMO than those who play or have played it. Developers and publishers lie, they will never speak of anything not in the most positive terms. The players will be honest with you. Watch out for shills, as most publishers do plant employees on the message boards to spread propaganda. What is the tone of discussion?
A healthy community discusses what they want to see added to the game, content they want added, features they want added, and generally discuss the game. There might be some debate and conflict, but not to the degree where the community is demanding rollbacks or alternate servers in significant numbers, that's a sure sign that the publisher has f'ed up to an unrecoverable degree.
An unhealthy community is in continual turmoil and at war with the Devs and each other. Again, see SWG. A game that is in that bad of state should be avoided at all costs.
I have never, nor will I ever pre order any game for the reasons Salveje mentioned. It just makes sense.
Yup, pre-order used to mean what it implies - "the game is released, get it before standard retail customers so you can login and play on Day 1 when the servers go live", which made sense to us hardcore.
Now it seems to mean - "get a Premium" - either Time ((2 weeks early play) and/or Content (out-of-game chotchkes like cards / poster / comic book, or in-game stuff like a pet or some unique spell).
The new definition also seems to include a stalling tactic - "the game's not really done but send us money anyway and when it is finished we'll reward you with stuff."
The new definition also seems to include a stalling tactic - "the game's not really done but send us money anyway and when it is finished we'll reward you with stuff."
I'm not sure if you guys realize or not but unless you pre-order a game directly from the Developers they don't see any of that money until after the game is released. Buying a pre-order box from a retail store such as Gamestop does not send any money to the developers, it stays in Gamestop's bank until the game is released & the retail version is paid for.
Samuraisword:
I completely understand what you're saying, I just don't agree with it. For some reason you seem to think that someone who pre-orders a game HAS to buy the retail version of the game the first day that it comes out. They don't.
I guess your point in pre-ordering and my point in pre-ordering are two different things. The reason that I personally pre-order games is to get whatever cool extra comes with the pre-order box. Beta access, 2 week head start, nifty title, item, etc. Being able to pick up the game the first day of release is just an added bonus to the reason I would buy the pre-order box. But, again, just because I bought the pre-order box does not some how force me to buy the retail version of the game.
And on the note about waiting to read the reviews for the game before buying it. You can still do that, even if you bought a pre-order box. Hell, a lot of MMO games today offer beta access to people who pre-order, so you can get first hand knowledge of how the game works rather then relying on 3rd party reviews. And then if you don't like the game, you can just get your money back for the pre-order after you have tried out the game. And if you decide you do like it, then you have a nifty perk from the pre-order & access to purchase the game the first day it's out without a hassle. Sounds like a win-win situation to me.
Look, I'm not trying to tell everyone that they should pre-order. What you do or don't do with your money is none of my business; what I am trying to do though is to state factual information to let people make their own decisions.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Just a point I would like to raise on this:
Why do you accept this?
What I mean is that in Australia we have a Consumer Law that allows us to return any product that does not meet "Purpose of Use"
http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/3863/fromItemId/3667 (See Goods)
and we are also protected from misleading advertising and claims
http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/3871/fromItemId/3667
and yes, this does include software.
So, if we get software home that does not "work" as claimed on the box we are not obliged to keep it or waste our time and money seeking a patch unless this is specified on the box.
And yes we can return OPENED software.
Why do US consumers accept a lesser standard? It amazes me that you guys haven't beaten down the doors of your Congress with this one...???
On to Pre-Orders:
Those of you who are following the story may have seen Flying Labs Software (Pirates of the Burning Sea) have tried something new.
Their "Pre-Order" includes an actual physical item (a music CD with music from the game) along with pre-order codes.
Interesting twist.
Of course, the whole thing has been a complete disaster... SOE were distributing for them and it looks like they have completely dropped the ball... (you can read about that elsewhere)
Probably should have called it a "Preview" to help retailers understand better too?
But, I agree with the general idea of the article - why be suckered into buying an unknown product?
And I also agree, you should never have to pay for entry to a Beta TEST. But then again, many people have no right to call themselves Beta Testers anyway.
"OMG OMG OMG my gam crassh this suxxor!!!11!!!!11 ur bata teost suxxor!!11!1!!"
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
At least this article sparked some comments. It was too short to contain any decent information on an interesting subject.
At least the bloggers here touched on some pros and cons of Pre ordering.
How about some information like: When is the safest time to pre order a MMO product? What companies and / or computer outlets honor pre oder sales. Personal experience with a gaming store I pre ordered from them and they sold the product out not reserving my product. Hence, I had to wait until my product came in. I lost more game time than if I ordered the game the day of launch.
What about the types of pre order benefits? We touched on a few of them. Which ones are really lame and which ones are well worth the risk of buying a pre order status. What are some other good pre order ideas would you like to see??
Again, as others said before: Gods and Heroes, the Chronicle, Mounring had pre order offers that did not deliver. What were the warning signs us consumers should learn from those?
All I am commenting on is I wish the article had more to this subject. Preordering is here to stay. Lets get as much info as we can out of it.
To get early access to beta would be a reason I'd preorder a game I'd normally wouldn't. Though I usually sign up for beta for a particular game right when signups are available. If the game "flew under my radar", means I'm probably not going to buy it, so why pre-order it?
I did like the small $5 disk I got for Guild Wars. Gave some ingame bonuses for Nightfall but also gave you a free trial of Prophecies and Factions. So even if the ingame items had "sucked", I paid $5 for a trial on 2 games at least. Even if I hated both (which I didn't), that's only $2.50 to try each. Heck, I can't even rent a movie anymore for under 3 bucks.
I did pre-order CoV, but that was only after I'd been in the beta for over a month. By that time I knew I would be buying it so the pre-order was just to guarantee I'd get my copy.
I think the LOTRO pre-order was just about a perfect deal for both sides. The players had a full month of open beta to decide if they liked the game and got a nice perk - lifetime or 2/3 price subscription fee. Turbine got to know about how many subs to expect to know how many servers to offer at launch, how much cash to get either up front or as monthly fees [though predicting how long the fees would last is iffy]. A win/win situation for both sides!
<p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg></a></p>;
Well, I payed 2/3 price subs fee for 6 months, but get bored after month. Don't think this was perfect deal for me only for Turbine.
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