What TR did was to try to get many early access people to do a "beta", and then it backfired when it turned out that the program was really only beta quality. The attempt at free marketing ended up being a negative. These early access people are not testers; real beta testing takes a certain amount of skill in testing procedures, and does not necessarily lead to FUN. Perhaps the game producers did not know that the game was only in "beta" shape when they tried an early access marketing program. This speaks to bad communication or a failure of perception within the company. RG was right.
Yes, that is the intersting part, what was the backfire?
In my opinin TR developers did handle the beta testing and testers badly. How ever that is no excuse for the beta testers behavior now after the release.
I agree Liliane. I see the company making an effort to at least inform the player base with 'Feedback Friday' etc. I generally hate PvE but I am looking forward to completing most of TR. Frankly I came across the game late in the day so its possible I did not get swayed by the hype but the semi-constant slagging off by beta testers is becoming a little tiring. I am pretty critical of new releases and compared to other launches such as Vanguard, TR is pretty damn stable and about as good as you are ever going to get. No doubt WAR and AoC will have the same 'we told them it was crap' threads by Beta testers who have probably not played post launch.
I do software development professionally; our programs sell for $200,000 to $1,000,000 a copy. A typical large customer will buy $100 million over a 3 year contract (chip design s/w). We always do a beta test before full release, but a new thing has cropped up in the last few years: "early access". So now it goes: - R/D testing -- also called "unit testing". This is where you specifically test features. If the user does X, the program is supposed to do Y. So, test X and look for Y. - Alpha testing -- this lets small numbers of internal people test the program in a more real sense. For us, it means running chips through it, for a game, it is playtesting. - Beta testing -- this is the first time you let a customer (or potential customer) try it out. You only get friendly customers under NDA to try it, and they run their chips through it (or playtest). - Release -- we then release the program, but only in a limited way. This is the new thing: - Early Access -- customers can get early access to code that we think is better than beta quality. In fact, we expect it to work correctly, but there is an occasional bug. There is no NDA needed, but not everyone can get it. - Full release -- everyone can buy it and use it. In the MMO arena, it appears that they are calling it "beta", but it's really early access. The FilePlanet "beta" players are a great example; these people are getting early access to a game that they think should basically be finished. What TR did was to try to get many early access people to do a "beta", and then it backfired when it turned out that the program was really only beta quality. The attempt at free marketing ended up being a negative. These early access people are not testers; real beta testing takes a certain amount of skill in testing procedures, and does not necessarily lead to FUN. Perhaps the game producers did not know that the game was only in "beta" shape when they tried an early access marketing program. This speaks to bad communication or a failure of perception within the company. RG was right.
We told them in closed beta that the game wasn't even NEAR ready, and that we estimated another 4-5 months at least for a smooth release. They extended release 2 weeks - not NEARLY enough - and are now crying it was the testers' fault. Well, if you don't want people to burn down your product, then don't release it to the general public before it's in a shape fit to be seen.
The fact the servers now seem to be emptying out is what we predicted would happen. People play their free month, and decide that's all they're willing to shell out. If the game was good enough in its current state to keep those people, they WOULD stay. That's NOT the fault of bad word of mouth, that's the result of gaming and not liking it.
Originally posted by ThompsonSub Originally posted by Linna Originally posted by olepi I do software development professionally; our programs sell for $200,000 to $1,000,000 a copy. A typical large customer will buy $100 million over a 3 year contract (chip design s/w). We always do a beta test before full release, but a new thing has cropped up in the last few years: "early access". So now it goes: - R/D testing -- also called "unit testing". This is where you specifically test features. If the user does X, the program is supposed to do Y. So, test X and look for Y. - Alpha testing -- this lets small numbers of internal people test the program in a more real sense. For us, it means running chips through it, for a game, it is playtesting. - Beta testing -- this is the first time you let a customer (or potential customer) try it out. You only get friendly customers under NDA to try it, and they run their chips through it (or playtest). - Release -- we then release the program, but only in a limited way. This is the new thing: - Early Access -- customers can get early access to code that we think is better than beta quality. In fact, we expect it to work correctly, but there is an occasional bug. There is no NDA needed, but not everyone can get it. - Full release -- everyone can buy it and use it. In the MMO arena, it appears that they are calling it "beta", but it's really early access. The FilePlanet "beta" players are a great example; these people are getting early access to a game that they think should basically be finished. What TR did was to try to get many early access people to do a "beta", and then it backfired when it turned out that the program was really only beta quality. The attempt at free marketing ended up being a negative. These early access people are not testers; real beta testing takes a certain amount of skill in testing procedures, and does not necessarily lead to FUN. Perhaps the game producers did not know that the game was only in "beta" shape when they tried an early access marketing program. This speaks to bad communication or a failure of perception within the company. RG was right.
We told them in closed beta that the game wasn't even NEAR ready, and that we estimated another 4-5 months at least for a smooth release. They extended release 2 weeks - not NEARLY enough - and are now crying it was the testers' fault. Well, if you don't want people to burn down your product, then don't release it to the general public before it's in a shape fit to be seen. The fact the servers now seem to be emptying out is what we predicted would happen. People play their free month, and decide that's all they're willing to shell out. If the game was good enough in its current state to keep those people, they WOULD stay. That's NOT the fault of bad word of mouth, that's the result of gaming and not liking it. Linna Quoted for it's utter truth. Nice one, Linna.
Quoted again, simply because it can't be said enough. This is PR damage control at its finest... the game is falling apart, so let's point the finger at all the people walking away.
I do software development professionally; our programs sell for $200,000 to $1,000,000 a copy. A typical large customer will buy $100 million over a 3 year contract (chip design s/w). We always do a beta test before full release, but a new thing has cropped up in the last few years: "early access". So now it goes:
- R/D testing -- also called "unit testing". This is where you specifically test features. If the user does X, the program is supposed to do Y. So, test X and look for Y.
- Alpha testing -- this lets small numbers of internal people test the program in a more real sense. For us, it means running chips through it, for a game, it is playtesting.
- Beta testing -- this is the first time you let a customer (or potential customer) try it out. You only get friendly customers under NDA to try it, and they run their chips through it (or playtest).
- Release -- we then release the program, but only in a limited way. This is the new thing:
- Early Access -- customers can get early access to code that we think is better than beta quality. In fact, we expect it to work correctly, but there is an occasional bug. There is no NDA needed, but not everyone can get it.
- Full release -- everyone can buy it and use it.
In the MMO arena, it appears that they are calling it "beta", but it's really early access. The FilePlanet "beta" players are a great example; these people are getting early access to a game that they think should basically be finished. What TR did was to try to get many early access people to do a "beta", and then it backfired when it turned out that the program was really only beta quality. The attempt at free marketing ended up being a negative.
These early access people are not testers; real beta testing takes a certain amount of skill in testing procedures, and does not necessarily lead to FUN. Perhaps the game producers did not know that the game was only in "beta" shape when they tried an early access marketing program. This speaks to bad communication or a failure of perception within the company. RG was right.
We told them in closed beta that the game wasn't even NEAR ready, and that we estimated another 4-5 months at least for a smooth release. They extended release 2 weeks - not NEARLY enough - and are now crying it was the testers' fault. Well, if you don't want people to burn down your product, then don't release it to the general public before it's in a shape fit to be seen.
The fact the servers now seem to be emptying out is what we predicted would happen. People play their free month, and decide that's all they're willing to shell out. If the game was good enough in its current state to keep those people, they WOULD stay. That's NOT the fault of bad word of mouth, that's the result of gaming and not liking it.
Linna
Quoted for it's utter truth.
Nice one, Linna.
Quoted again, simply because it can't be said enough. This is PR damage control at its finest... the game is falling apart, so let's point the finger at all the people walking away.
I'll join this quote also. I watched in beta while many threads full of concerns and suggestions regarding the impending release state of the game were actively ignored, having 10 or more pages in each where not one dev or even forum mod chose to even reply in one post.
Both Garriotts' need to be put out to pasture (Richard for being a clueless joke and his brother for being ignorant enough not to realize it ) and NCsoft either needs to get some serious devs in there asap who know how to make the game entertaing for more than a month, make the game free-to-play ( at least they can have some success from constant turnover ), or kill it altogether.
he says, " “Marketing can definitely get you on the shelf, and in the first few weeks, get you off the shelf. In the long run, even with the best marketing, if it’s a bad game, word gets out, and your sales will come to halt." Had to read it a couple of times, the point he's trying to make is hard to get. Is he saying that sales of RGTR are poor, and beta testers are at fault?
He's kinda at fault for making a trash game, imo. Good idea, badly implemented.
you need to read first, react later.
can you smell that?!!...............there is nothing quite like it.....................the smell of troll in the morning............i love that smell.
Many things are hurting tabula non of which I will list here cause when I played the game I tried to express them in a decent way but was ignored. However the mmorpg.com review is the most reliable and indepth review of this game.
RG isn't blaming people for the state of the game. It reads to me like they let in too many people too early as marketing rather than testing and bad word-of-mouth is biting them. In essence that seems to be the gist of it at any rate.
Now to be open and honest I like the game. It's fun and I have a good time playing it usually. My current big problem with it is essentially I was in the beta. Why? TR is, in it's current state, blindly following yellow markers on a map or killing X number of something. Why this is a problem for me is that this is exactly what I was doing in beta and it's exactly what I'm doing now. Yes, I am having fun and I'll enjoy it while it lasts but I know, probably no more than a month or 2 away, it will wear thin and I will grow bored. At that point I will stop paying. I won't be upset I played. I won't lament the loss of my money. I won't be saying TR is a terrible game. I will just have played it for all it's worth and have no reason to stay.
To carry that on:
I don't think there's anything in TR that I would point to and say "that's done badly". What's there has some bugs of course, but the ideas are sound and the implementation is good. But lets face the facts here:
Having to have Logos to use skills is not a new idea. It's just Nano Crystals from Anarchy Online or Elite skills from GW all over again. CP's are Alien Raids from Anarchy Online all over again. However these 2 elements have been used in a refreshing way that makes them worthy of inclusion in TR and a job well done. Why did they not do anything new with the core of the content: Questing? Sometimes you actually have to read a quest to make life easy, but that's not new. The divergent stories are interesting (where you have to make choices) but you are still just chasing yellow dots.
The new content they have planned? A new planet is going to be more maps with quests and the items to complete them. APU's are going to be cool, but just another item that you need to visit a certain map and do it's quests. Even new classes or races are just going to be a new toolset to go to a map and do it's quests. And quests are just tools to send you places and give you XP to get to a new level and Stuff for the new level to do the Quests for that level.
Until they get out of the rut of going to maps and doing quests TR is still going to be thin and repetitive. However, if DG get themselves out of that rut the game as it stands proves that they have what it takes to make it work. The only thing I see missing is a certain type of creativity. Yes, the maps and quests are creative. The mobs are creative. Even the classes are creative. They just lack that drive to explore new content types, not just more content of the same type which will be just as samey as what's there now.
I am neither a Fanboi nor a Troll. I like TR, it's a good game. Unfortunately it's just not enough for anything but the short term.
If Garriott made an MMO in many ways like classic Ultima Online with to date graphics, I think there would be a mass of happy MMO gamers. I thnk Garriott is just following suit on todays MMO's and what most alll people want like items, gear level based with harsh PvP restrictions. To many MMO's these days are crap just like Tabula Rasa and yes I beta tested the game. If you are reading this RG, make a damn MMO that was like classic Ultima Online. Freedom, non item based, no quests, skill based, no instances and open PvP/full player looting. Time to take back whats yours RG, stop listening to what the wusses want in an MMO. Go for what classic UO was!
I think that anyone who got into beta knew that this wasn't an "UO in space" sandbox game. Which would have been marvellous, but since the beginning we knew what we had on our hands was a quest guided pve only game.
About the beta itself, I think it's a bad idea to have so many people on it when the game is having so many changes. It creates FUD. This also applies to the live version btw
I'm sure that with a bit of order and firm hand the developers can recover the game (a sad thing to say after release) and bring it where they want. But it won't be easy. The release wave has already passed. I still don't know what the game will try to be looking like for the next 6 months... there is simply no reliable information about the upcoming, other than the vehicles patch.
In the beta boards, the devs published a damn long TODO list full of features, some implemented, others in part, mooost of them unchecked. But there wasn't any known order or priority of these features implementation in the future (i.e. a roadmap), and there isn't yet known to the public.
As of now, they only thing I want to add is that it needs lots more of content (new content from that TODO list) and adjustments (to the already existing content: rethink of abilities without "raging" the community, more quests...). And to give something to the (ex-)players to look forward to.
That would work, if it was the bugs that were the issue. The problem was never bugs, it was that the core gameplay was dull, repetitive, and ultimately shallow.
Nailed it!
I was never in the beta, only managed to play the game till about lvl 10, gave up cause it was too boring and lacked any atmosphere, or at least likeable characters or setting.
Gave account to a friend, he quit at level 21.
I tried to interest the crowds that play games at the cybercafe I manage, there were NOONE who wanted to play it (we have a place with 35 PCs, busy all day and night, mostly WoW players, many in search of a new MMO to pass the time).
Sorry Mr. British, you can kid yourself about beta all you like, but your game just isn't FUN to most people.
Yep...pretty much sad to say, I'm glad I did the Trial and not forked over 50.00 bucks for this. The thing is he was given a Scrooge Mcduck sized bank account and years to develop this and this was the best he could do...it's really a Modern day Dikatanna story. I understand that he has plans to ad a couple mechs as being playable, but that should have been included at launch at the very least along with a quest system that didn't put you to sleep, a Space game ala SWG with more of a Buck Rogers Flare would have gone a long way to keep this game out of the shit bin...but adding stuff like this as an after thought never works, the game had it's shot failed and will chug along with a handful of true believers.
This is indeed the problem with TR. Bugs were not the issue in beta. Everyone understands that bugs will be there. The problem is the whole TR concept. On paper it looks like a great idea but in execution the game is terrible. It has no complexity, no player interaction and is as shallow as a rain puddle. Add to that it is boring as all heck.
Add to that there was no Developer interaction with the Players during beta. It was like everyone was trying to tell them how bad the game was but they thought they knew better. Game Developers need to listen to the Players. For the most part they really want to like a game but are telling you why they don't. Don't argue with them, listen. The Fanboys associated with each game do not help either. As a matter of fact they hurt the game and eventually will be playing it alone.
“You are not testers, you are just some guys randomly picked from their computer so they can get a mass of people that occasionally reports a couple of bugs that their EMPLOYEES REAL TESTERS didn't notice or missed.
You are not testers, you are not getting payed for it. Why for the love of god would they listen to some random guys yelling about nerfing some weapon properties. You are there to report bugs that's all and check their server stability. I repeat, YOU ARE NOT TESTERS.”
Heh this makes me laugh . . dude . . some of us ARE QA testers I do this on the side for fun and that I am good at it. I also know QA testing NEVER has enough time! So a few guys are going to fully test a MMO? and I bet there schedule got cut in two also - it happens all the time here. Also early QA less to do with game play tweaking then about testing functionality of the core and added features.
Now of course “nerfing this and buffing that” has to be done with a global sense . . but that IS what the open beta is for! to get that global sense that a few QA guys can’t get. But you have to have a Functioning core game to be able to Tweak it . . Missing functionality during testing only lessens the usefulness of the testing.
This game from my professional POV was in a alpha state (not feature complete, highly bugged, poor user experience) , and only now in a Beta state (or even pre-beta? 1.0 feature complete, bugs, but no or few “show-stoppers”, user experience useful for review) . But even then is it really still missing allot of the expected release functionality, let alone content, but the basic game is there now and some enjoyment can be had.
It would also seem that he just about admitted outright that it was released in a unfinished state that lacked any polish (do not give me the BULL about all MMOs are - you have to start with a solid functioning core game) And that jaded beta testers spoiled the release. . well, sure they did . .they saw an unfinished but still interesting game being released way before it’s time. Did anyone think some MAGIC was going to happen and all of a sudden a fully featured and polished release was going to just go poof and materialize? We where right in our criticism.
A tactic some game CO. use is to hype a bad game and hope people but it before reading reviews or before the word of mouth catch up . .then they can get there % of money return and to heck with the sap costumer. . You really can’t do this as well now a days with all of the pervasive reviewing. But it does . . look at all the movie tie-ins .
But MMO’s have tried another angle . . perpetual Beta . . Release a poor product and promise allot in the future and see how much you can milk . . Now I am not saying this is what happened with TR but this could be the corporate mentality that pushed it out too soon - and could kill it unless they can catch up.
I really hope they can make it and catch up, but unfortunately they are going to be spending allot of time just plugging holes and making new “caret” content to keep people around.
“We told them in closed beta that the game wasn't even NEAR ready, and that we estimated another 4-5 months at least for a smooth release. They extended release 2 weeks - not NEARLY enough - and are now crying it was the testers' fault. Well, if you don't want people to burn down your product, then don't release it to the general public before it's in a shape fit to be seen.”
“You are not testers, you are just some guys randomly picked from their computer so they can get a mass of people that occasionally reports a couple of bugs that their EMPLOYEES REAL TESTERS didn't notice or missed.
You are not testers, you are not getting payed for it. Why for the love of god would they listen to some random guys yelling about nerfing some weapon properties. You are there to report bugs that's all and check their server stability. I repeat, YOU ARE NOT TESTERS.” Heh this makes me laugh . . dude . . some of us ARE QA testers I do this on the side for fun and that I am good at it. I also know QA testing NEVER has enough time! So a few guys are going to fully test a MMO? and I bet there schedule got cut in two also - it happens all the time here. Also early QA less to do with game play tweaking then about testing functionality of the core and added features. Now of course “nerfing this and buffing that” has to be done with a global sense . . but that IS what the open beta is for! to get that global sense that a few QA guys can’t get. But you have to have a Functioning core game to be able to Tweak it . . Missing functionality during testing only lessens the usefulness of the testing. This game from my professional POV was in a alpha state (not feature complete, highly bugged, poor user experience) , and only now in a Beta state (or even pre-beta? 1.0 feature complete, bugs, but no or few “show-stoppers”, user experience useful for review) . But even then is it really still missing allot of the expected release functionality, let alone content, but the basic game is there now and some enjoyment can be had. It would also seem that he just about admitted outright that it was released in a unfinished state that lacked any polish (do not give me the BULL about all MMOs are - you have to start with a solid functioning core game) And that jaded beta testers spoiled the release. . well, sure they did . .they saw an unfinished but still interesting game being released way before it’s time. Did anyone think some MAGIC was going to happen and all of a sudden a fully featured and polished release was going to just go poof and materialize? We where right in our criticism. A tactic some game CO. use is to hype a bad game and hope people but it before reading reviews or before the word of mouth catch up . .then they can get there % of money return and to heck with the sap costumer. . You really can’t do this as well now a days with all of the pervasive reviewing. But it does . . look at all the movie tie-ins . But MMO’s have tried another angle . . perpetual Beta . . Release a poor product and promise allot in the future and see how much you can milk . . Now I am not saying this is what happened with TR but this could be the corporate mentality that pushed it out too soon - and could kill it unless they can catch up. I really hope they can make it and catch up, but unfortunately they are going to be spending allot of time just plugging holes and making new “caret” content to keep people around.
“We told them in closed beta that the game wasn't even NEAR ready, and that we estimated another 4-5 months at least for a smooth release. They extended release 2 weeks - not NEARLY enough - and are now crying it was the testers' fault. Well, if you don't want people to burn down your product, then don't release it to the general public before it's in a shape fit to be seen.” Quoted for truth
/agree
And for clarity's sake, I used to earn a damn good living doing beta testing and final QA for MAJOR commercial software companies. I do game beta testing for fun, but that doesn't mean I don't TEST.
Comments
Yes, that is the intersting part, what was the backfire?
In my opinin TR developers did handle the beta testing and testers badly. How ever that is no excuse for the beta testers behavior now after the release.
MMORPG.COM has worst forum editor ever exists
I agree Liliane. I see the company making an effort to at least inform the player base with 'Feedback Friday' etc. I generally hate PvE but I am looking forward to completing most of TR. Frankly I came across the game late in the day so its possible I did not get swayed by the hype but the semi-constant slagging off by beta testers is becoming a little tiring. I am pretty critical of new releases and compared to other launches such as Vanguard, TR is pretty damn stable and about as good as you are ever going to get. No doubt WAR and AoC will have the same 'we told them it was crap' threads by Beta testers who have probably not played post launch.
We told them in closed beta that the game wasn't even NEAR ready, and that we estimated another 4-5 months at least for a smooth release. They extended release 2 weeks - not NEARLY enough - and are now crying it was the testers' fault. Well, if you don't want people to burn down your product, then don't release it to the general public before it's in a shape fit to be seen.
The fact the servers now seem to be emptying out is what we predicted would happen. People play their free month, and decide that's all they're willing to shell out. If the game was good enough in its current state to keep those people, they WOULD stay. That's NOT the fault of bad word of mouth, that's the result of gaming and not liking it.
Linna
Quoted for it's utter truth.
Nice one, Linna.
i agree as well . when will these developers actually listen to thier beta testers .
We told them in closed beta that the game wasn't even NEAR ready, and that we estimated another 4-5 months at least for a smooth release. They extended release 2 weeks - not NEARLY enough - and are now crying it was the testers' fault. Well, if you don't want people to burn down your product, then don't release it to the general public before it's in a shape fit to be seen.
The fact the servers now seem to be emptying out is what we predicted would happen. People play their free month, and decide that's all they're willing to shell out. If the game was good enough in its current state to keep those people, they WOULD stay. That's NOT the fault of bad word of mouth, that's the result of gaming and not liking it.
Linna
Quoted for it's utter truth.
Nice one, Linna.
Quoted again, simply because it can't be said enough. This is PR damage control at its finest... the game is falling apart, so let's point the finger at all the people walking away.
We told them in closed beta that the game wasn't even NEAR ready, and that we estimated another 4-5 months at least for a smooth release. They extended release 2 weeks - not NEARLY enough - and are now crying it was the testers' fault. Well, if you don't want people to burn down your product, then don't release it to the general public before it's in a shape fit to be seen.
The fact the servers now seem to be emptying out is what we predicted would happen. People play their free month, and decide that's all they're willing to shell out. If the game was good enough in its current state to keep those people, they WOULD stay. That's NOT the fault of bad word of mouth, that's the result of gaming and not liking it.
Linna
Quoted for it's utter truth.
Nice one, Linna.
I'll join this quote also. I watched in beta while many threads full of concerns and suggestions regarding the impending release state of the game were actively ignored, having 10 or more pages in each where not one dev or even forum mod chose to even reply in one post.Quoted again, simply because it can't be said enough. This is PR damage control at its finest... the game is falling apart, so let's point the finger at all the people walking away.
Both Garriotts' need to be put out to pasture (Richard for being a clueless joke and his brother for being ignorant enough not to realize it ) and NCsoft either needs to get some serious devs in there asap who know how to make the game entertaing for more than a month, make the game free-to-play ( at least they can have some success from constant turnover ), or kill it altogether.
The developers might be listening, but they're not making the decisions on release. They're just recommending.
Go to the suits who usually are antsy to get revenue coming in.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
beta tested for the last month - loved it
pre-ordered, purchased, playing now - still love it
{ Mod Edit }
He's kinda at fault for making a trash game, imo. Good idea, badly implemented.
you need to read first, react later.
can you smell that?!!...............there is nothing quite like it.....................the smell of troll in the morning............i love that smell.
Many things are hurting tabula non of which I will list here cause when I played the game I tried to express them in a decent way but was ignored. However the mmorpg.com review is the most reliable and indepth review of this game.
First things first:
RG isn't blaming people for the state of the game. It reads to me like they let in too many people too early as marketing rather than testing and bad word-of-mouth is biting them. In essence that seems to be the gist of it at any rate.
Now to be open and honest I like the game. It's fun and I have a good time playing it usually. My current big problem with it is essentially I was in the beta. Why? TR is, in it's current state, blindly following yellow markers on a map or killing X number of something. Why this is a problem for me is that this is exactly what I was doing in beta and it's exactly what I'm doing now. Yes, I am having fun and I'll enjoy it while it lasts but I know, probably no more than a month or 2 away, it will wear thin and I will grow bored. At that point I will stop paying. I won't be upset I played. I won't lament the loss of my money. I won't be saying TR is a terrible game. I will just have played it for all it's worth and have no reason to stay.
To carry that on:
I don't think there's anything in TR that I would point to and say "that's done badly". What's there has some bugs of course, but the ideas are sound and the implementation is good. But lets face the facts here:
Having to have Logos to use skills is not a new idea. It's just Nano Crystals from Anarchy Online or Elite skills from GW all over again. CP's are Alien Raids from Anarchy Online all over again. However these 2 elements have been used in a refreshing way that makes them worthy of inclusion in TR and a job well done. Why did they not do anything new with the core of the content: Questing? Sometimes you actually have to read a quest to make life easy, but that's not new. The divergent stories are interesting (where you have to make choices) but you are still just chasing yellow dots.
The new content they have planned? A new planet is going to be more maps with quests and the items to complete them. APU's are going to be cool, but just another item that you need to visit a certain map and do it's quests. Even new classes or races are just going to be a new toolset to go to a map and do it's quests. And quests are just tools to send you places and give you XP to get to a new level and Stuff for the new level to do the Quests for that level.
Until they get out of the rut of going to maps and doing quests TR is still going to be thin and repetitive. However, if DG get themselves out of that rut the game as it stands proves that they have what it takes to make it work. The only thing I see missing is a certain type of creativity. Yes, the maps and quests are creative. The mobs are creative. Even the classes are creative. They just lack that drive to explore new content types, not just more content of the same type which will be just as samey as what's there now.
I am neither a Fanboi nor a Troll. I like TR, it's a good game. Unfortunately it's just not enough for anything but the short term.
If Garriott made an MMO in many ways like classic Ultima Online with to date graphics, I think there would be a mass of happy MMO gamers. I thnk Garriott is just following suit on todays MMO's and what most alll people want like items, gear level based with harsh PvP restrictions. To many MMO's these days are crap just like Tabula Rasa and yes I beta tested the game. If you are reading this RG, make a damn MMO that was like classic Ultima Online. Freedom, non item based, no quests, skill based, no instances and open PvP/full player looting. Time to take back whats yours RG, stop listening to what the wusses want in an MMO. Go for what classic UO was!
I think that anyone who got into beta knew that this wasn't an "UO in space" sandbox game. Which would have been marvellous, but since the beginning we knew what we had on our hands was a quest guided pve only game.
About the beta itself, I think it's a bad idea to have so many people on it when the game is having so many changes. It creates FUD. This also applies to the live version btw
I'm sure that with a bit of order and firm hand the developers can recover the game (a sad thing to say after release) and bring it where they want. But it won't be easy. The release wave has already passed. I still don't know what the game will try to be looking like for the next 6 months... there is simply no reliable information about the upcoming, other than the vehicles patch.
In the beta boards, the devs published a damn long TODO list full of features, some implemented, others in part, mooost of them unchecked. But there wasn't any known order or priority of these features implementation in the future (i.e. a roadmap), and there isn't yet known to the public.
As of now, they only thing I want to add is that it needs lots more of content (new content from that TODO list) and adjustments (to the already existing content: rethink of abilities without "raging" the community, more quests...). And to give something to the (ex-)players to look forward to.
Nailed it!I was never in the beta, only managed to play the game till about lvl 10, gave up cause it was too boring and lacked any atmosphere, or at least likeable characters or setting.
Gave account to a friend, he quit at level 21.
I tried to interest the crowds that play games at the cybercafe I manage, there were NOONE who wanted to play it (we have a place with 35 PCs, busy all day and night, mostly WoW players, many in search of a new MMO to pass the time).
Sorry Mr. British, you can kid yourself about beta all you like, but your game just isn't FUN to most people.
Yep...pretty much sad to say, I'm glad I did the Trial and not forked over 50.00 bucks for this. The thing is he was given a Scrooge Mcduck sized bank account and years to develop this and this was the best he could do...it's really a Modern day Dikatanna story. I understand that he has plans to ad a couple mechs as being playable, but that should have been included at launch at the very least along with a quest system that didn't put you to sleep, a Space game ala SWG with more of a Buck Rogers Flare would have gone a long way to keep this game out of the shit bin...but adding stuff like this as an after thought never works, the game had it's shot failed and will chug along with a handful of true believers.
This is indeed the problem with TR. Bugs were not the issue in beta. Everyone understands that bugs will be there. The problem is the whole TR concept. On paper it looks like a great idea but in execution the game is terrible. It has no complexity, no player interaction and is as shallow as a rain puddle. Add to that it is boring as all heck.
Add to that there was no Developer interaction with the Players during beta. It was like everyone was trying to tell them how bad the game was but they thought they knew better. Game Developers need to listen to the Players. For the most part they really want to like a game but are telling you why they don't. Don't argue with them, listen. The Fanboys associated with each game do not help either. As a matter of fact they hurt the game and eventually will be playing it alone.
TR is the next Auto Assault.
“You are not testers, you are just some guys randomly picked from their computer so they can get a mass of people that occasionally reports a couple of bugs that their EMPLOYEES REAL TESTERS didn't notice or missed.
You are not testers, you are not getting payed for it. Why for the love of god would they listen to some random guys yelling about nerfing some weapon properties. You are there to report bugs that's all and check their server stability. I repeat, YOU ARE NOT TESTERS.”
Heh this makes me laugh . . dude . . some of us ARE QA testers
I do this on the side for fun and that I am good at it. I also know QA testing NEVER has enough time! So a few guys are going to fully test a MMO? and I bet there schedule got cut in two also - it happens all the time here. Also early QA less to do with game play tweaking then about testing functionality of the core and added features.
Now of course “nerfing this and buffing that” has to be done with a global sense . . but that IS what the open beta is for! to get that global sense that a few QA guys can’t get. But you have to have a Functioning core game to be able to Tweak it . . Missing functionality during testing only lessens the usefulness of the testing.
This game from my professional POV was in a alpha state (not feature complete, highly bugged, poor user experience) , and only now in a Beta state (or even pre-beta? 1.0 feature complete, bugs, but no or few “show-stoppers”, user experience useful for review) . But even then is it really still missing allot of the expected release functionality, let alone content, but the basic game is there now and some enjoyment can be had.
It would also seem that he just about admitted outright that it was released in a unfinished state that lacked any polish (do not give me the BULL about all MMOs are - you have to start with a solid functioning core game) And that jaded beta testers spoiled the release. . well, sure they did . .they saw an unfinished but still interesting game being released way before it’s time. Did anyone think some MAGIC was going to happen and all of a sudden a fully featured and polished release was going to just go poof and materialize? We where right in our criticism.
A tactic some game CO. use is to hype a bad game and hope people but it before reading reviews or before the word of mouth catch up . .then they can get there % of money return and to heck with the sap costumer. . You really can’t do this as well now a days with all of the pervasive reviewing. But it does . . look at all the movie tie-ins
.
But MMO’s have tried another angle . . perpetual Beta . . Release a poor product and promise allot in the future and see how much you can milk . . Now I am not saying this is what happened with TR but this could be the corporate mentality that pushed it out too soon - and could kill it unless they can catch up.
I really hope they can make it and catch up, but unfortunately they are going to be spending allot of time just plugging holes and making new “caret” content to keep people around.
“We told them in closed beta that the game wasn't even NEAR ready, and that we estimated another 4-5 months at least for a smooth release. They extended release 2 weeks - not NEARLY enough - and are now crying it was the testers' fault. Well, if you don't want people to burn down your product, then don't release it to the general public before it's in a shape fit to be seen.”
Quoted for truth
And for clarity's sake, I used to earn a damn good living doing beta testing and final QA for MAJOR commercial software companies. I do game beta testing for fun, but that doesn't mean I don't TEST.
Linna