LOLCOPTER gameplay in AOC , and how to prevent it ?

Lobotomist

Thinking of AOC revolutionary combat system, that finally brings skill into MMO attack system , one thing brings a deep concern.

Will we see the attack of LOLCOPTER's in PVP ?

For ones that do not know LOLCOPTER is a style of PVP originated in WOW , where player constantly strafes around your character hitting only with basic attack.

Now i do not have nothing against LOLCOPTERS. This succesful fighting method is not easy to perfect and it does take CRAP on all and every game ability, even level diferences... but it seems WOW supports it, so the devs must find it charming

 

But what about AOC ?

LOLCOPTERING seems like match made in heaven.

Basically it would make a pvp into a strafing and hitting the main attack key fest. You can forget about combos or anything that takes more than 1 keypress - cause you will be pressed to constantly strafe.

This will totally break gameplay in PVP ... but yes...some people think LOLCOPTING is gameplay...oh well

 

In my opinion only valuable solution for this problem is AUTOFACING

And i will repost my several reasons for it :

1. Combat will look much more realistic if you actually swing towards enemy and not 2 feet to his left or right

2. It will make dodging (double tap directions) much more viable , fun to use and realistic

3. Remember Autoface is not auto-attack , you will actually have your hands full with dodging, and executing combos

4. It will eliminate LOLCOPTER gameplay

5. The gameplay would be much more enjoyable and much more strategic.

 

Remember it is only facing, you will still have to move manually

bluealien1

Originally posted by Lobotomist



Thinking of AOC revolutionary combat system, that finally brings skill into MMO attack system , one thing brings a deep concern.
Will we see the attack of LOLCOPTER's in PVP ?
For ones that do not know LOLCOPTER is a style of PVP originated in WOW , where player constantly strafes around your character hitting only with basic attack.
Now i do not have nothing against LOLCOPTERS. This succesful fighting method is not easy to perfect and it does take CRAP on all and every game ability, even level diferences... but it seems WOW supports it, so the devs must find it charming
 
But what about AOC ?
LOLCOPTERING seems like match made in heaven.
Basically it would make a pvp into a strafing and hitting the main attack key fest. You can forget about combos or anything that takes more than 1 keypress - cause you will be pressed to constantly strafe.
This will totally break gameplay in PVP ... but yes...some people think LOLCOPTING is gameplay...oh well
 
In my opinion only valuable solution for this problem is AUTOFACING
And i will repost my several reasons for it :


1. Combat will look much more realistic if you actually swing towards enemy and not 2 feet to his left or right
2. It will make dodging (double tap directions) much more viable , fun to use and realistic
3. Remember Autoface is not auto-attack , you will actually have your hands full with dodging, and executing combos
4. It will eliminate LOLCOPTER gameplay
5. The gameplay would be much more enjoyable and much more strategic.
 
Remember it is only facing, you will still have to move manually

I don't think it will happen. There is a sprinting system, and I believe a good combo will easily overtake basic attacks.

daarco

And isnt weapon reach much lower in AoC? You need to be very close to hit.

So LOLCOPTERing will be really pointless.

todeswulf

I think we should just find the idiot that came up with the term Lolcopter and slowly dip him in Sulfruic acid.

scougre

auto facing is in and optional however as an experienced gamer you'll find turning the camera with your mouse more usefull.

turning around like that will make the one 'lolcoptering' like you say, in a disadvantage as it won't be that easy and usefull as in WoW.

Don't forgot you got collision detection aswell so you can just make them stop turning in circles but standing infront of them.

 

 

AmazingAvery

Goto remember to,

Line of sight for caster, and also area of 'cone' infront of them and how these work in a situation like you said in WoW.

Im pretty confident everything will be ok.

Thebigbopper

 Like to see a person get a decent arena rating in WOW using the bs style you are talking about.  Seriously the only time this would work would be the really low lvls. The amount of stuns,fears and whatever else makes this style almost impossible to be succesful and especially with just auto attack.  I imagine it would be the same in AOC.

Lobotomist

You would be soprised

I know people that are very skilled pvp-ers , and they brought the lolcoptering to state of art.

Main misconception is that people using this style are not good players, quite opposite.

They practice it for hours.

 

On the end it is like this:

They use the fact that some skills can not be cast on the move , or take time to cast.

This combined with always strafing to back or side of opponent.

 

 

 

Now i am not saying they are abusing the system. WOW is clearly adjusted to this style of gameplay.

 

But imagine this in AOC ?

How could you string combos while bunny jumping, lol strafing guy is all the time running behind you.

Using just default attack to slowly wear you down...

Quite lame

But it is very viable tactics in this combat system ....

 

 

 

 

 

sanicek

Circle strafing is probably as old as multiplayer gaming itself. Although I really hate to use that phrase, all I can say is l2p. Any melee class based on instant abilities should in face to face situations always try to keep moving and circle strafe the enemy while performing all instant attacks. Nowhere is it said to rely just on autoattack. Shamans, warriors, paladins and in lesser extend rogues (they can stunlock and need to face the back of the victim) should always go ahead with circle strafing in WoW. Hunters basically do the same just from distance and with big radius, but its more of a kiting stuff than preventing the enemy to attack when being behind him.

One of the reason I look forward to AOC is because the combat is so far clearly supportive of this kind of tactic.

Zinzan

You are describing strafing, and it's been a problem in mmropg's since way before WoW even entered development.

DAoC (pre-dating WoW by 5 years) for example, although several others come to mind, had this same problem.

 

lapomme

It won't happen.  I know you already know this, but unlike it most MMOs, you don't automatically attack.  You have to hit the keys for the combos and the attacks are pretty slow.  Running around the enemy would just make them lose time that they could be attacking, because they have to stop to attack (like I said, unlike the others where you can constantly jump and run and attack).  So if you're jumping around like that, you're simply wasting time that could be used for hitting the enemy.

In the end, you'll die if you constantly move around the enemy, because they are getting more hits on you than you are hitting them.  Most of the fights find the two fighters standing right in front of each other, not moving.

Don't worry about it, it won't happen here, but I can't say the same for WAR. =/

 

tbox

Bring a friend end of story. 

sanicek

Originally posted by WesKhan1


It won't happen.  I know you already know this, but unlike it most MMOs, you don't automatically attack.  You have to hit the keys for the combos and the attacks are pretty slow.  Running around the enemy would just make them lose time that they could be attacking, because they have to stop to attack (like I said, unlike the others where you can constantly jump and run and attack).  So if you're jumping around like that, you're simply wasting time that could be used for hitting the enemy.
In the end, you'll die if you constantly move around the enemy, because they are getting more hits on you than you are hitting them.  Most of the fights find the two fighters standing right in front of each other, not moving.
Don't worry about it, it won't happen here, but I can't say the same for WAR. =/
 

Well dunno about you, but I can simultaneously move AND use my attacks, so unless some crappy mechanic is implemented which prevents movement while using instant abilities or vice versa I see no reason not  to abuse field of vision/attack of opponents unable to even turn the proper direction.

Lobotomist

Originally posted by sanicek

Originally posted by WesKhan1


It won't happen.  I know you already know this, but unlike it most MMOs, you don't automatically attack.  You have to hit the keys for the combos and the attacks are pretty slow.  Running around the enemy would just make them lose time that they could be attacking, because they have to stop to attack (like I said, unlike the others where you can constantly jump and run and attack).  So if you're jumping around like that, you're simply wasting time that could be used for hitting the enemy.
In the end, you'll die if you constantly move around the enemy, because they are getting more hits on you than you are hitting them.  Most of the fights find the two fighters standing right in front of each other, not moving.
Don't worry about it, it won't happen here, but I can't say the same for WAR. =/
 

Well dunno about you, but I can simultaneously move AND use my attacks, so unless some crappy mechanic is implemented which prevents movement while using instant abilities or vice versa I see no reason not  to abuse field of vision/attack of opponents unable to even turn the proper direction.

You guys are giving two completely conflicting versions of how combat works

What Weskhan1 said , could actually be quite good system

scougre

yes you can hit and walk at the same time but it is not as practical since you can't just hit Q and don't worry about it anymore and soley focus on the strafing.

Unless the person got three arms or makes use of ingame macroes which is an good to way to get banned i won't see it happening often or at all.

 

Imagine turning the camera with you mouse with one hand and then control movement with your keyboard with the other hand and then keep on trying to hit 1,2,3,Q or E to perform an attack and constantly adapt as your opponent is altering his defence system.

 

 

Illius

I'm not worried.  No auto attack means no bunny hopping like morons all over the field of battle spamming whirlwind or cleave or what have you.

What I see happening is people will go in hit a few times and then take a step back or close the distance fore a quick hit or 2 and then get out of range to avoid taking damage.

lapomme

Originally posted by sanicek

Originally posted by WesKhan1


It won't happen.  I know you already know this, but unlike it most MMOs, you don't automatically attack.  You have to hit the keys for the combos and the attacks are pretty slow.  Running around the enemy would just make them lose time that they could be attacking, because they have to stop to attack (like I said, unlike the others where you can constantly jump and run and attack).  So if you're jumping around like that, you're simply wasting time that could be used for hitting the enemy.
In the end, you'll die if you constantly move around the enemy, because they are getting more hits on you than you are hitting them.  Most of the fights find the two fighters standing right in front of each other, not moving.
Don't worry about it, it won't happen here, but I can't say the same for WAR. =/
 

Well dunno about you, but I can simultaneously move AND use my attacks, so unless some crappy mechanic is implemented which prevents movement while using instant abilities or vice versa I see no reason not  to abuse field of vision/attack of opponents unable to even turn the proper direction.

I should have put this more clearly.  You have to stop to use combos, you can't run and do combos at the same time.  This is the system they are using at the moment.  And yes you can run around somebody swinging the normal attacks, but the running attacks are 1)  Slower than linking normal attacks while not moving, and 2) Normal attacks are a LOT weaker than combos, so you will never win a fight without using combos.

 

Edit : By the way, nice signature Lobo

Punknaught

It would definately be more like this.

*Enemy circles you using basic attack for minimal damage......turn defenses full to side thier circling left or right......side step.....swing full to his incoming side and with attack momentum hit twice as you go thru thier strafe.

roughly...and if you do it right they will take much more damage than you had.

JulianDracos

Originally posted by Zinzan


You are describing strafing, and it's been a problem in mmropg's since way before WoW even entered development.
DAoC (pre-dating WoW by 5 years) for example, although several others come to mind, had this same problem.
 

/stick

/face

both solve this problem.  A person can run around all he wants and you autoface the target.  So there is no point running around in circles, although some people do try.  It usually work after you land a stun style because that will break the /face. 

Sovren1

Yeah, I agree with those who say strafing and circle strafing IS pvp. No different than a flank imo. You maneuver to get a better position on your opponent to strike. While he's readjusting, you are attacking. In shooters you employ the very same tactics. Strafe, duck, prone, and crawl.

Autoface could be good in the MMO world to induce one side of fair play. Guild Wars does it and has been successful. It's hardly noticeable and they have projectile dodging which many games thus far do not.

However, autofacing for me kinda limits the overall skill of a player by giving them a crutch. Training wheels so to speak. If other pvpers are even remotely like me...then it's about more than just facing the competition. More than pressing a few buttons or keys that shoot out your magics. In these games it's about showing the full capacity of what you can do to get the better of your opponent on all fronts. Position. Build. Attribute distribution. Armor selection. Skill selection or tree selection.

I think the more avenues that are open in pvp only keeps the game fresh and allows you to come up with many tactics to get the job done.

Having what I called earlier a "crutch" in the system is imo an unneeded mechanic. While it may support some sort of imaginary idea of fair play, it's just another limit to what we can do as players.

vmoped

My only concern with PvP in AoC would be the jump in attack and jump out tactic.  From what I understand on the combat there is no to hit.  You hit what is in your swing arc.  I'm sure they are addressing, or have addressed this (I hope), but it's the only thing I would dread seeing.

A bunch of melee people jumping back and forth trying to hit each other, or jumping back to avoid a casters cone.

Lobotomist

Originally posted by Sovren1



Having what I called earlier a "crutch" in the system is imo an unneeded mechanic. While it may support some sort of imaginary idea of fair play, it's just another limit to what we can do as players.

You see this is exactly what I am talking about. Good number of people see this gameplay valid one.

But not all of them.

Actually lets take example of ultimate pvp-skill game : Counter-Strike. It has the  bunnyhopping tactic , which could be and is very powerful in right hands. Developers of CS never saw this as a a wierd tactic so they left it alone.

But than you have a game like Battlefield , where not only you can not run(sprint) and shoot ,or jump and shoot - but it also eats your stamina , as well making your aim go bonkers.

Is this a crutch over CS players ? I dont think so. I think it is more realistic.

Does it limit the gameplay over CS ? No , it opens diferent gameplay.

 

But anyway.

I still think, and this discussion only proves it , AOC will be bunnyhopping, lolcoptering heaven.

Maybe it will not be the ultimate pvp strategy , but it will be present , and annoying as ever

 

 

AmazingAvery

ok for the last time you cannot jump and swing at the same time - NO BUNNY HOPPING, you just can't do it. Hands on reports confirm this as well as the dev's. You can strafe yes. But no bunny hopping!

Anvir

Ok the origin of life did NOT come from WoW only thing that came from it is the "lol" naming of everything wich supposedly is hilarious fun...

And jumping in AoC does deplete you're stamina and you wont have a advantage in combat anymore.

Lobotomist

Jumping?

I only mentioned Bunnyhopping in Counter strike , as example of another skill based PVP game in which (in this case jumping) mechanic was abused beyond its original purpose to give edge in fight.

Thought that was clear to you guys?

Thillian

Do you really think that this style of combat was first seen in WoW?