To the OP: While there are a dearth of good mmorpgs right now, you gotta face it: Nothing will compare to your first time. The achievement of mastering totally new skills (hell, in mmorpgs, a whole new language). The thrill of combat when it was new and exciting. The pleasure of exploring new lands.
For me it was Asheron's Call. I've played a half dozen games since then, but parts of AC still stand out. I'll never forget finding a new dungeon with a buddy, the WTH is that chittering sound, followed all too quickly by the Oh SH*T as a swarm of olthoi had us for dinner.
The Moving Finger writes, and, having writ, Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.
I see this tends to touch a nerve with many out there like me and many others that have the opposite opinion . I will say, myself I dont see this as being a wholy bad time for MMO's but more of a bad slump. I seem to be in the minority when it comes to WoW as far as not likeing it anymore, but to me its only where it is at do to the hype it got in the early days of its creation and you will see it fall farther out of favor ..I ,right now play alot of free MMO's which I get the same kick out of as I did WoW ...accept now I dont pay for it :P
I too am waiting for the Bioware MMO, but I will say that this game is going to be Bioware staking its Rep on it ..Bioware has many great titles and many more to come but if this game goes the wrong way for them ...I cringe at the outcome ..... I am hopeing that it will be a more ground breaking game than "others" in the recent past.
In the end I do see a better and brighter future for MMO gamers and hopefully soon..
Dont get me wrong I love to Quest and level but its more how you go about it that keeps me interested.......
komarr wrote: For me it was Asheron's Call. I've played a half dozen games since then, but parts of AC still stand out. I'll never forget finding a new dungeon with a buddy, the WTH is that chittering sound, followed all too quickly by the Oh SH*T as a swarm of olthoi had us for dinner.
The thing is, Asheron's Call has some elements that are still unique out of even the moderately popular MMOGs. A large, completely open environment where you could literally run from one end of the continent to the other through dozens of routes. No classes, but instead just allowing the player to pick the skills they want their character to have. The allegiance system, which gave the higher ranked characters some of the experience that their vassals gained.
Are these systems perfect? No, especially with allegiance, but they can be taken and updated, getting rid of the flaws while allowing more flexibility.
I'm still waiting for the unique mechanics and possibilities that set a game apart from the crowd. As other people have said, pretty much everything since Everquest has been a clone of it. EVE Online is one of the few exceptions, and is outstanding for what it does. Unfortunately, it just isn't my game.
Pirates of the Burning Sea is a very light version of EVE set in the Caribbean, while Stargate Worlds appears to be the same thing on various planets instead. From what little I've seen of Warhammer and Age of Conan, they both seem to be evolutions rather than revolutions.
Darkfall and Hero's Journey both sound great, but have nothing to show for it. I guess I'll have to keep waiting for them or something out of the blue.
Originally posted by komarr To the OP: While there are a dearth of good mmorpgs right now, you gotta face it: Nothing will compare to your first time. The achievement of mastering totally new skills (hell, in mmorpgs, a whole new language). The thrill of combat when it was new and exciting. The pleasure of exploring new lands. For me it was Asheron's Call. I've played a half dozen games since then, but parts of AC still stand out. I'll never forget finding a new dungeon with a buddy, the WTH is that chittering sound, followed all too quickly by the Oh SH*T as a swarm of olthoi had us for dinner.
Damn this makes me feel *old*, I remember stalking mossworts in the Green Mire dungeon, and completing a quest for the Green Mire Cuirass (not an epic piece of armor, but still it was nice to have something I earned by my own effort).
Lets not forget the pure joy of slaughtering drudges (damn'd cat sounding freaks!). >:>
I see this tends to touch a nerve with many out there like me and many others that have the opposite opinion . I will say, myself I dont see this as being a wholy bad time for MMO's but more of a bad slump. I seem to be in the minority when it comes to WoW as far as not likeing it anymore, but to me its only where it is at do to the hype it got in the early days of its creation and you will see it fall farther out of favor ..I ,right now play alot of free MMO's which I get the same kick out of as I did WoW ...accept now I dont pay for it :P I too am waiting for the Bioware MMO, but I will say that this game is going to be Bioware staking its Rep on it ..Bioware has many great titles and many more to come but if this game goes the wrong way for them ...I cringe at the outcome ..... I am hopeing that it will be a more ground breaking game than "others" in the recent past. In the end I do see a better and brighter future for MMO gamers and hopefully soon.. Dont get me wrong I love to Quest and level but its more how you go about it that keeps me interested.......
Xoremus
Im pretty much in the same situation. Im playing free MMO's and even though a lot of people bash them they are really not a lot different from WoW. A grind is a grind. Id rather just not pay for it every month.
Im still waiting for Fallen Earth. It looks like it has potential.
MMo's are more of a community base genra of gaming play them with friends meet friends roleplay with friends etc etc if your bored, Then you just are not playing them properly hence its about time you move on too the console games.
MMo's are more of a community base genra of gaming play them with friends meet friends roleplay with friends etc etc if your bored, Then you just are not playing them properly hence its about time you move on too the console games.
Personally, i think should be fun, even if the community isnt.
In other words : even if mmo are community based, the community should not be the be-all end-all of a game.
If i want to enjoy a community, i have my real friends, my family, etc... And all those things are free, not frustrating (unlike the community of a mmo, sometimes).
Basically, the quality of a game should be determined by its content, not exclusively by its community. If the game in itself is boring then the game is boring, and there's no "you're not playing them properly".
Yes, there is an end to boring mmo's. As soon as people quit acting like crack fiends and not "settle" for a game until the next "big thing" comes along then companies will be forced to produce quality games rather than crap ones. The only people we have to blame for the trivial crap that is out there are the people that continue to pay sub fees for substandard products.
Very true. At this point, I have no interest in playing any current MMO or any of the MMO's that will release in the near future. Just going to sit it out until something interesting comes along...
I guess I am just tired of the same old rip offs, I 'm sorry to say but when EQ 1 came out it was the greatest game ever (in my opinion). It was like the first time with a women you got the knees shaking the premature .......uhhhh Nevermind ,but the point is it was fun and the fun kept giving for a long time untill you had WoW and I say had because WoW is just seriously repetitive , even with the release of TBC it was really the same old crap over again yeah great , new areas to explore but the same old s*** in a different costume..In the same sense you had EQ2 which really ran parallel with WoW which probably wasnt smart on Sony's end because WoW had so much hype it was rediculous...I actually started out Playing EQ2 which I still think is a much better game in the overall sceme of things , but was drawn into the Brothel that was WoW to be perfectly honest I still think EQ2 is a better game ...but still it isnt that first time feeling ..... and there are so many blatent rip offs of WoW and to me it just proves its incesant repetiveness.. All I want to know is, is there going to be an MMO anytime soon that will give you the rush that EQ1 used to give?? This is just my opinion and I am sure there are a few of you who agree and a few who dont but the world of MMOs is just getting ....BLAHHHH
XOREMUS
Sorry to say this buddy, but what do you think MMORPG's are? Theres no possible way not to make a game repetetive.
There's always gonna be quests. Well sure they'll last you awhile until you do about 10 escorts and notice hhhmmm, these are basically all the same, because all I do is follow this guy or guys from point A to point B.
Then you have instances which some games don't have, I'm just basing this on WoW and TR. Instances are fun and all, but you can't get the most out of them until you run it around 5-10 times. Because maybe that instance drops something you want, but it has a low drop rate. So all you do is run the instance over and over again.
So basically, MMORPG's have to be repetetive or else the game would last like 2 hours, at most. That's just the way of the MMORPG world. So to speak.
No it won't and Darkfall will proof that.
Its the simplistic casual games you play you think most mmo's will be like this but wow is just a bad game copy all repitive game play from former mmo's like everquest, make it very casual and millions play it.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
Originally posted by Durinthal The thing is, Asheron's Call has some elements that are still unique
Aside from what what you already mentioned (skill based, open environment, allegiance system), there were many other things I loved about AC1 that you just never see anymore. And why you don't, I really can't fathom. But I suppose it probably has something to do with a desire to make games simplified vs. complicated.
Multiple Damage Types - you may see up to two damage types in modern MMORPG's, but that's usually about it. AC1 had seven, and actually I think I'm forgetting one or two others as well (pierce, slash, blunt, cold, fire, acid and hollow). This made it loads of fun just trying to acquire different sets of gear, and simply to get prepared for fighting in different situations and against different mob types.
Randomly Generated Loot - nothing made the grind more bearable for me than knowing there was at least a possibility of finding something really sweet (and also essentially unique) off a common mob drop. This also made trading a fun and rewarding activity in itself. And to the devs who think 'oh..., this will ruin a crafting economy' - bull shit. Crafters still had the opportunity to modify dropped items even further by tinkering, etc..
Rare Drops - these were fun, and were used to create and/or upgrade weapons and armor. I remember getting 'mote' drops in the early days of AC1, and later on 'shards' - which ended up almost creating a sub economy of their own. And once again, many common mobs could drop these items and thereby relieve some of the tedium from grinding.
Meaningful Buffs/Debuffs, and Specials - nothing infuriates me more than grinding over and over again for days in the same instance only to be rewarded with some crappy and generic '+2%' item. But once again we have lazy devs these days who think that keeping everyone and everything balanced makes things 'simple' (granted - it does for the devs). The problem with this philosophy, however, is that it also makes gameplay boring and unrewarding for the players.
Guaranteed Rewards vs. Camping - Instead of creating 30 group dungeons/raid instances with a certain nice reward reward IF you make it to the end (AC1), just create 5 dungeons and only give the good drops to one player out of twenty. And thereby force everyone to do the same instance over and over again ad nauseum (EQ1, WoW, Vanguard etc.).
Once again, it really seems to be about downsizing the work required of the devs, charging the same (or higher) prices for the product, and then expecting all your customers to be too stupid to notice the difference. I just hope that in the end this strategy will not work, and that these companies will realize they are getting called for their greed and laziness in the form of declining subscription numbers.
I for one am certainly losing my once rabid interest in playing MMORPGs anymore. But then again, I suppose their will always be more than enough freshly minted moronic preteens with mommies credit card that I won't be missed...
Sorry if I made anyone feel old, but i have to agee with the subsequent postings about AC1's unique content. It was also nice in that you weren't subjected to the same elves, orcs, dwarves etc in terms of critters.
The Moving Finger writes, and, having writ, Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.
While we are on the AC1 subject, one thing I want to see making a comeback before I get excited about MMOs again.:
Dynamic Worlds..... In AC1, the world changed. From the little things like snow in winter, all the water in the land turning to blood, to a whole town being wiped off the earth by the bad guys.
On a monthly basis I used to love finding out the next chapter of a unique and memorable world.
Free form Player PvP/Politics ala EVE can recreate alot of this but it wouldnt hurt for devs to take a leaf out of AC and occasionally make the world and the lore they spend so much time shaping, move alot a bit.
.....But I guess its easier to make another raid dungeon full of Dire Orcs so we all can get slightly shinier stuff till next time they add a new dungeon with Giant Dire Orcs.
I guess I am just tired of the same old rip offs, I 'm sorry to say but when EQ 1 came out it was the greatest game ever (in my opinion). It was like the first time with a women you got the knees shaking the premature .......uhhhh Nevermind ,but the point is it was fun and the fun kept giving for a long time untill you had WoW and I say had because WoW is just seriously repetitive , even with the release of TBC it was really the same old crap over again yeah great , new areas to explore but the same old s*** in a different costume..In the same sense you had EQ2 which really ran parallel with WoW which probably wasnt smart on Sony's end because WoW had so much hype it was rediculous...I actually started out Playing EQ2 which I still think is a much better game in the overall sceme of things , but was drawn into the Brothel that was WoW to be perfectly honest I still think EQ2 is a better game ...but still it isnt that first time feeling ..... and there are so many blatent rip offs of WoW and to me it just proves its incesant repetiveness.. All I want to know is, is there going to be an MMO anytime soon that will give you the rush that EQ1 used to give?? This is just my opinion and I am sure there are a few of you who agree and a few who dont but the world of MMOs is just getting ....BLAHHHH
XOREMUS
no there won't be because EQ1 was probably your first MMORPG.. so no it won't happen again
Comments
This is like the great depression of mmos to me lol, it can only get better.
To the OP: While there are a dearth of good mmorpgs right now, you gotta face it: Nothing will compare to your first time. The achievement of mastering totally new skills (hell, in mmorpgs, a whole new language). The thrill of combat when it was new and exciting. The pleasure of exploring new lands.
For me it was Asheron's Call. I've played a half dozen games since then, but parts of AC still stand out. I'll never forget finding a new dungeon with a buddy, the WTH is that chittering sound, followed all too quickly by the Oh SH*T as a swarm of olthoi had us for dinner.
The Moving Finger writes, and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.
~Omar Khayyam
I see this tends to touch a nerve with many out there like me and many others that have the opposite opinion . I will say, myself I dont see this as being a wholy bad time for MMO's but more of a bad slump. I seem to be in the minority when it comes to WoW as far as not likeing it anymore, but to me its only where it is at do to the hype it got in the early days of its creation and you will see it fall farther out of favor ..I ,right now play alot of free MMO's which I get the same kick out of as I did WoW ...accept now I dont pay for it :P
I too am waiting for the Bioware MMO, but I will say that this game is going to be Bioware staking its Rep on it ..Bioware has many great titles and many more to come but if this game goes the wrong way for them ...I cringe at the outcome ..... I am hopeing that it will be a more ground breaking game than "others" in the recent past.
In the end I do see a better and brighter future for MMO gamers and hopefully soon..
Dont get me wrong I love to Quest and level but its more how you go about it that keeps me interested.......
Xoremus
The thing is, Asheron's Call has some elements that are still unique out of even the moderately popular MMOGs. A large, completely open environment where you could literally run from one end of the continent to the other through dozens of routes. No classes, but instead just allowing the player to pick the skills they want their character to have. The allegiance system, which gave the higher ranked characters some of the experience that their vassals gained.
Are these systems perfect? No, especially with allegiance, but they can be taken and updated, getting rid of the flaws while allowing more flexibility.
I'm still waiting for the unique mechanics and possibilities that set a game apart from the crowd. As other people have said, pretty much everything since Everquest has been a clone of it. EVE Online is one of the few exceptions, and is outstanding for what it does. Unfortunately, it just isn't my game.
Pirates of the Burning Sea is a very light version of EVE set in the Caribbean, while Stargate Worlds appears to be the same thing on various planets instead. From what little I've seen of Warhammer and Age of Conan, they both seem to be evolutions rather than revolutions.
Darkfall and Hero's Journey both sound great, but have nothing to show for it. I guess I'll have to keep waiting for them or something out of the blue.
Damn this makes me feel *old*, I remember stalking mossworts in the Green Mire dungeon, and completing a quest for the Green Mire Cuirass (not an epic piece of armor, but still it was nice to have something I earned by my own effort).
Lets not forget the pure joy of slaughtering drudges (damn'd cat sounding freaks!). >:>
-- Brede
Im pretty much in the same situation. Im playing free MMO's and even though a lot of people bash them they are really not a lot different from WoW. A grind is a grind. Id rather just not pay for it every month.
Im still waiting for Fallen Earth. It looks like it has potential.
MMo's are more of a community base genra of gaming play them with friends meet friends roleplay with friends etc etc if your bored, Then you just are not playing them properly hence its about time you move on too the console games.
In other words : even if mmo are community based, the community should not be the be-all end-all of a game.
If i want to enjoy a community, i have my real friends, my family, etc... And all those things are free, not frustrating (unlike the community of a mmo, sometimes).
Basically, the quality of a game should be determined by its content, not exclusively by its community. If the game in itself is boring then the game is boring, and there's no "you're not playing them properly".
Very true. At this point, I have no interest in playing any current MMO or any of the MMO's that will release in the near future. Just going to sit it out until something interesting comes along...
There's always gonna be quests. Well sure they'll last you awhile until you do about 10 escorts and notice hhhmmm, these are basically all the same, because all I do is follow this guy or guys from point A to point B.
Then you have instances which some games don't have, I'm just basing this on WoW and TR. Instances are fun and all, but you can't get the most out of them until you run it around 5-10 times. Because maybe that instance drops something you want, but it has a low drop rate. So all you do is run the instance over and over again.
So basically, MMORPG's have to be repetetive or else the game would last like 2 hours, at most. That's just the way of the MMORPG world. So to speak.
No it won't and Darkfall will proof that.Its the simplistic casual games you play you think most mmo's will be like this but wow is just a bad game copy all repitive game play from former mmo's like everquest, make it very casual and millions play it.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
Aside from what what you already mentioned (skill based, open environment, allegiance system), there were many other things I loved about AC1 that you just never see anymore. And why you don't, I really can't fathom. But I suppose it probably has something to do with a desire to make games simplified vs. complicated.
Multiple Damage Types - you may see up to two damage types in modern MMORPG's, but that's usually about it. AC1 had seven, and actually I think I'm forgetting one or two others as well (pierce, slash, blunt, cold, fire, acid and hollow). This made it loads of fun just trying to acquire different sets of gear, and simply to get prepared for fighting in different situations and against different mob types.
Randomly Generated Loot - nothing made the grind more bearable for me than knowing there was at least a possibility of finding something really sweet (and also essentially unique) off a common mob drop. This also made trading a fun and rewarding activity in itself. And to the devs who think 'oh..., this will ruin a crafting economy' - bull shit. Crafters still had the opportunity to modify dropped items even further by tinkering, etc..
Rare Drops - these were fun, and were used to create and/or upgrade weapons and armor. I remember getting 'mote' drops in the early days of AC1, and later on 'shards' - which ended up almost creating a sub economy of their own. And once again, many common mobs could drop these items and thereby relieve some of the tedium from grinding.
Meaningful Buffs/Debuffs, and Specials - nothing infuriates me more than grinding over and over again for days in the same instance only to be rewarded with some crappy and generic '+2%' item. But once again we have lazy devs these days who think that keeping everyone and everything balanced makes things 'simple' (granted - it does for the devs). The problem with this philosophy, however, is that it also makes gameplay boring and unrewarding for the players.
Guaranteed Rewards vs. Camping - Instead of creating 30 group dungeons/raid instances with a certain nice reward reward IF you make it to the end (AC1), just create 5 dungeons and only give the good drops to one player out of twenty. And thereby force everyone to do the same instance over and over again ad nauseum (EQ1, WoW, Vanguard etc.).
Once again, it really seems to be about downsizing the work required of the devs, charging the same (or higher) prices for the product, and then expecting all your customers to be too stupid to notice the difference. I just hope that in the end this strategy will not work, and that these companies will realize they are getting called for their greed and laziness in the form of declining subscription numbers.
I for one am certainly losing my once rabid interest in playing MMORPGs anymore. But then again, I suppose their will always be more than enough freshly minted moronic preteens with mommies credit card that I won't be missed...
Sorry if I made anyone feel old, but i have to agee with the subsequent postings about AC1's unique content. It was also nice in that you weren't subjected to the same elves, orcs, dwarves etc in terms of critters.
The Moving Finger writes, and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.
~Omar Khayyam
While we are on the AC1 subject, one thing I want to see making a comeback before I get excited about MMOs again.:
Dynamic Worlds..... In AC1, the world changed. From the little things like snow in winter, all the water in the land turning to blood, to a whole town being wiped off the earth by the bad guys.
On a monthly basis I used to love finding out the next chapter of a unique and memorable world.
Free form Player PvP/Politics ala EVE can recreate alot of this but it wouldnt hurt for devs to take a leaf out of AC and occasionally make the world and the lore they spend so much time shaping, move alot a bit.
.....But I guess its easier to make another raid dungeon full of Dire Orcs so we all can get slightly shinier stuff till next time they add a new dungeon with Giant Dire Orcs.
Give me a world I care about!
*mutters, sighs, and walks off his sandbox*
no there won't be because EQ1 was probably your first MMORPG.. so no it won't happen again