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When the Intolerant Kill Christmas
kimmar
Member Posts: 446
When the Intolerant Kill Christmas: My Gay Friend's Holiday Story
Posted December 24, 2007 | 10:26 PM (EST)
A very close friend of mine "just came out" to his brother as a gay man. He did the same with his mother about ten months ago -- and it didn't go well. . .with either of them.
He's a former soldier who worked on some of the most classified missions the military had going -- and despite my criticism of the Bush administration on its invasion of Iraq, I know that my friend had a hand in successfully delivering some of the world's real bad guys to the next world -- both in Afghanistan and Iraq. He reads my blog -- and he has kept an open mind about some of my criticisms of this administration and the national security course it has been on.
But his mother and brother have tried to tell him that if he's gay -- he must not believe in God, he must be a reprobate and must be such a deviant that his brother told him that he will never give him a moment's rest and peace about this issue.
My friend is earnest, a patriot, sober, sane -- and he's being betrayed in America by a lack of the kind of tolerance and modernity that our society is supposed to be about. Iran and any place under the control of the Taliban hang, stone, or castrate gay youth. Egypt imprisons them. In middle America, the intolerant who somehow have decided to channel a vindictive, judgmental, and sin-obsessed Christ harass, disown -- and in the case of young Matthew Shepard in Laramie, Wyoming or active duty sailor Allen Schindler -- kill them.
I hate to hold Dick Cheney and his wife out as models, but I'm absolutely going to in this case. Cheney is convinced of how right he is in matters of war and state -- but when it came to family, Cheney and his wife evolved. I know that he does not harass his daughter Mary. He accepts her, her partner, and his grandchild.
This is my personal message to my friend's mother and brother. Your son has options. He has friends and a family he can surround himself with until the end of his days as he is a prince of a person whether you see it through your judgmental eyes or not.
I'm sure when Lynn Cheney was not yet ready to broadcast discussion about her daughter being a lesbian -- she was privately tormented. The fact that her daughter. . .that's right. . .the Vice President of the United States' daughter was homosexual -- took time to accept. But they did it. They remained a family, and I credit them for privately demonstrating tolerance in a way that should influence the most theocratic corners of the nation. I have friends that argue that Mary Cheney hasn't done enough -- but she and her family are one -- and that's enough in my view. And it should be in the case of my friend's family.
Your views about your brother and son can't even be called Medieval -- because as we have recently learned, Medieval knights, lords, and nobility committed themselves to each other in property and love in much the way that civil unions are emerging today.
You think your brother and son "chose" a lifestyle that he has tried not to accept for years -- to the point of considering ending his life.
He made no choice. But you are.
You are choosing to reject him and who he decides to be. If Cheney accepts his daughter and her partner, you should think about why you refuse to do the same. Why aren't you able to join our modern world? Theocracy -- when it harms rather then helps -- is no better here than it is over there.
Merry Christmas, and if you get a chance during your lives to visit the site where Matthew Shepherd was brutally killed, I want you to think real hard about who is saved and who is not.
By the way, I forgive you -- but your son is going to live a good life whether or not you accept him for the great man he is.
I hope that something in this note may be useful to many of the others emotionally abandoned or victimized by a righteousness that has lost its bearings.
-- Steve Clemons publishes the popular political blog, The Washington Note
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It all seems so stupid
It makes me want to give up
But why should I give up
When it all seems so stupid
Comments
Hmm... what's that I smell? Flame-bait? Yep, definitely smells like flame-bait.
As for the OP's post: too bad. Homosexuality is not part of the Christain ethos. It never has been. Homosexual conduct is a sin, but doing it doesn't mean you're not a Christian, just that you're doing something bad. Lots of Christians do bad things (myself included), so there's nothing particularly special about it.
What I think is wierd is how those who practice it keep trying to convince everyone (particularly Christians) that there isn't anything wrong with it. They want us to *condone* it rather than just tolerate it. This isn't about tolerance, this is about acceptance and, probably, approval, as in: yes, you're behaving in a legitimate and approved manner. They're not, and they're never going to get that sort of approval. Definitely not from me, anyway, and probably not from most Christians.
There you go. Lots more flame-bait there. Have fun.
I think many people misunderstand the whole concept of Christians not agreeing with homosexuality. It's not that you can't be gay...I mean if you're gay you can't exactly help your feelings...but it's acting on those feelings that we don't agree with. That is at least my personal viewpoint. Someone can't be punished for what they were born with. I agree it's unfair that they have to put up with being "different" even if they don't want to, but I guess life can be unfair at times
I went to Scripps Mercy Hospital a few nights ago, and their lobby had a huge cross in it so you can tell it was a religous sponsored building. To me, the Hospital was spreading the teachings of Jesus a whole lot better then some of the people trying to use religion for thier own ends. That being to have good will to all and acceptance. However, when you look at someone killing someone for being homosexual. I naturally presume they are not religious. There are 10 very basic rules that god himself set forth for all to follow, how can you betray several of these rules for a sin that could have been inscribed by a monk in the middle ages?
Very well said ^
whether or not people choose to be gay at some level or not is irrelevant to me.
I have no problem with anyone who doesn't try to throw anything in my face.
It is a travesty that people harass their own relatives based on homosexuality, where pregnant daughters with lose morals are more supported in a lot of these cases. Given the choice of a gay son and a pregnant teenage daughters i would choose a gay son.
Yet at the same time the one thing that is almost a valid point is the loss of having your children discontinue your genes, and have biological children.
But family should accept you for who you are, no matter what the sacrifice(minor exception being addicts, and pyschological disorders)
But if i was in that scenario i would be able to accept it over time, but would always have a dissappointment not having biological grandchildren.
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you''re one of the 2% who hasn''t, copy & paste this in your signature.
I'd rather be gay than believe in something that noone has any proof existed, it's crazy that people are told a story and then they believe it lol. It's like saying Homer Simpson is real and writing a book about it then asking everyone to have faith that he really exists. The only reason religion came about was because there was no technology back then and people needed to believe there was some higher power out there that could help them out.
Imo, when it comes to gay tolerance, the US is still playing catch up with countries such as the Netherlands, Belgium, Canada and scandinavia.
That's very sad that the man in this article is being harassed by his Christian family. No one has the right to tell another person what they must or must not believe in, and that's the greatest fault that many Christians have.
I am a Christian, and it is my duty to spread the love of God to others, however nothing in this faith gets accomplished through force or harsh words. "You can't love God if you're gay", or "God doesn't love you if you're gay".. those are both horrible statements that so many Christians stand behind. This man's family is so scared that their loved one will not make it into heaven that they are attacking him and trying to force him out of what he feels is natural. What he really needs is their love and support, and only through scripture and God's grace will he see that his lifestyle is wrong.
I am not sure if a "Gay Christian" makes it into heaven in the end.. mankind cannot decide that fate. God is the ultimate judge. I have many faults, I probably sin every day whether conscious of it or not, but it is my faith and trust in Jesus Christ that I rely on!
All I can say is that I made my annual Christmas call to my parents, but again to no avail. I'll keep it up until either they're both dead or I am, or hopefully until the day that we can reconcile our differences.
I know exactly how this whole thing pans out. I'm living it. I celebrated Christmas with all the tolerance that Jesus taught us to show. I would not do otherwise. However, I would love to receive that same tolerance and love back at me. Especially from my mom and dad.
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People of homosexual nature shouldn't need "tolerance", because it shouldn't matter to anyone but themselves what their sexual preference is. It shouldn't matter any more than their favorite color, or food, or music. Only because of eons of x-tian bullshit is it even an issue.
X-tianity has always felt a need to persecute (and at times execute) anyone who it chooses to call "evil", or "wrong".
What kind of mentality has it created when a person's own family would be so disturbed by their sexual orientation?
It's like disowning someone because they prefer sugar in their coffee....
They don't have this problem in Iran and I suspect a portion of our own population would love to also not have this problem in the U.S. either. Not disagreeing with anything said here just pointing out a observation on the socially conservative religious right over here and over there so to speak.
I will never understand why everyone hates homosexuals, everyones parents raised them to be tolerant of others religions, races, languages everything except for orientation. I honestly believe that anyone who is a homophobe or has anything against homosexuals is afraid to accept the fact that maybe they are gay and they cover it up this way to make themselves feel better ... or maybe theyre just stupid.
And nothing pisses me off more than idiotic statements like this.
And those people (beyond Christianity) that hate homosexuals need to get over it. Even if homosexuality was wrong, why would it be worse than anything else? Stuck up people who found a group to target to make themselves feel better in my opinion.
first off, all these flames against christianity are off base. Christianity is an idea, a faith. Groups of people who twisted these ideas to fit there own agenda are the evil ones. Yes, I will agree that some of the most horrible acts ever commited by the human race were done "in the name of Christianity" but that was only a 'slogan' (insert evil doing group here) used to allow them to pull the proverbial wool over peoples eyes and act as they wish. People are to blame for these acts not an idea. Both the people who commited the acts and those ignorant enough to be fooled by the holier-than-thou guise.
Back to the original topic.
I wish this fellow only the best and hope that his family finally accepts him even if they cannot/willnot accept his orientation. I am torn on my views of homosexuality, I was once a devout christian now i am more of a christian with questions. but either way I still hate to see people suffer for no reason other than intolerance and hatred.
... - ..-. ..-
Everyone? You maybe...but certainly not me and the majority of other people in this thread by the looks of it.
OK let's say for a moment someone drives into a family member paralysing them for life but it wasn't their fault...it was the fault of the family member who didn't look where they were walking. According to your logic I should hate the person who drove into them, not the fact that they were knocked over, even though it wasn't their fault in the first place?
The exact same principle applies to homosexuality for many Christians. We hate the fact that they are gay, but we do not hate the people...I have plenty of gay friends. They know I don't agree yet we're still friends because I do not hate them for something they can't control.
As the Catholic Church understands it, wrong and sin are not the same thing. Wrong is harm, disorder, destruction; it is in the objective or external world. Sin is self-distancing from God; it is in the heart. Sin is more a general attitude than any particular action. We sin when we deliberately do what we believe is wrong. Then in our hearts we opt for evil. Then we move away from goodness and from God, who is good.
It may well be that what you do is not wrong at all. But if you think it is and you do it anyway, well, you are corrupt. That's sin! Or what you do may really be wrong. But if you don't honestly think so and you do it, well, your heart is not really amiss. You may be uninformed, naive, or stupid, and even dangerous, but unless you have neglected properly informing yourself, you are not sinful.
The Church teaches right and wrong but never says who is a sinner. Only God knows our hearts. Many homosexual people simply cannot believe that gay sex as such is wrong. So they do what for them is "the best they can do," though Church teaching says that homogenital acts are wrong. Still, according to the same Church's teaching on conscience, they do not sin in their hearts nor before God. Then they need not confess what is not sin, and they may participate in the Sacraments of the Church.
In 1997, the U.S. Catholic Bishops released a Pastoral Letter entitled Always Our Children: A Pastoral Message to Parents of Homosexual Children and Suggestions for Pastoral Ministers, directed to the parents of gay and lesbian Catholics. In this document, the bishops briefly addressed lesbians and gay men, saying, "In you God's love is revealed." The letter also encouraged families to remain connected when a member revealed his or her homosexuality, and called for the establishment of ministries sensitive to the needs of gay and lesbian Catholics and their families.
Well said ^
Homo is a sin, and it can not be tolerated by God and that's what happen to sodom and gomorrah. Even though your conscience tells you that its ok, it is still wrong in God's eye, and whoever that continue to perform such act wil never inheirt the kingdom of God. There's no compromise.
Another thing, homo is not generic, you can refer to the web below.
"http://www.family.org/lifechallenges/A000000186.cfm";
Basically it says that if its generic than both twins will be gay, but as studies found out, its not so, more of it is depend on the upbring, the places that they are in.
Finally, please note that there's a difference of teaching between catholic and christianity.
RIP Orc Choppa
Incorrect. First off, it's 'genetic', second, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for sexual deviancy, it never explicitly states that it was for homosexuality. It mentions that there are gays in SnG, but there are also other types of sexual deviants. You're also wrong about the heritability of the quote-endquote 'gay gene', in twin studies it's been shown that there is a pretty damn good chance of both twins sharing the same sexual preference.
Religion is an interesting thing. Its amazing how people just pick and choose parts of a religion that fit them personally, kinda like going to the super market and picking different fruit you like. You just skip over the stuff you don't like and go straight to the good stuff.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
I will never understand why everyone hates homosexuals, everyones parents raised them to be tolerant of others religions, races, languages everything except for orientation. I honestly believe that anyone who is a homophobe or has anything against homosexuals is afraid to accept the fact that maybe they are gay and they cover it up this way to make themselves feel better ... or maybe theyre just stupid.
I'm gonna take a big chance here and admit something. I think you're right, because I have a hunch that everyone has at some time or another thought about what it would be like. Maybe I'm wrong, because I'm just basing it on my own perspective and discussions I've had with others. I'm not saying I have or would act upon it, but there have been times that I've had a fleeting thought.Now before everyone starts calling Gnome a homosexual, go back and read what I said above in it's totality. And trust me, if I were gay I would have no problem screaming it from the highest mountain top so that all you vindictive f*ckers could feel some of my gay rage when you come my way with your balled fists. I'd beat that hate right out of your psyche!
Nyah, I just think we all fit somewhere in the middle and it's what drives a lot of the hatred. Some people just can't stand not being able to touch another man's willie. So, instead they take it out on those that they envy.
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God made us with a brain capable of doubt so that we could decided ourselves whether or not to find something true. Jesus did not want us to hate. That's plain and simple. It's absolutely not that hard once people get it through their skulls that we're all in this together on some level or other. Why spend your time on Earth making another persons life miserable? Especially when the only thing they ask is to be free to consensual love without the torment or judgment of people that it doesn't even effect.
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OK let's say for a moment someone drives into a family member paralysing them for life but it wasn't their fault...it was the fault of the family member who didn't look where they were walking. According to your logic I should hate the person who drove into them, not the fact that they were knocked over, even though it wasn't their fault in the first place?
The exact same principle applies to homosexuality for many Christians. We hate the fact that they are gay, but we do not hate the people...I have plenty of gay friends. They know I don't agree yet we're still friends because I do not hate them for something they can't control.
How can you say you don't agree with someone for something they can't control? I don't understand what you're saying. To me that sounds like someone saying, I don't agree with red heads for their hair color being out of their control.
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This is very well said. I read topics and this pretty much stood out with some other posts in this thread.
-In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08-
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