Aye, I firmly believe that SWG pre-NGE was on to something. It's a shame SOE didnt' give the players much content to play with. But I agree, the NGE was a step back for the game.
The original SWG didn't appeal to Star Wars fans — that's why the subscription base never exceeded a million customers, and the population started to dwindle long before the CU was even a rumor.
Rather, the original SWG was developed for Raph Koster fans — people who wanted another time-sink laden, content-lacking, over-ambitious DikuMUD clone of Ultima Online in a sci-fi wrapper. And even they grew weary of a game that was mired in bugs and unfulfilled promise.
The so-called "depth" was largely a process of figuring out what actually worked. Or as the case may be, what could be exploited.
Honestly, I think the game was destined to mediocrity from the outset. It was rushed through development, launched in an incomplete state, and then poorly maintained/supported. Heck, some might argue the very choice of setting undermined success before even the first line of code was written.
This mythical millions of sw fans that a sw mmo could appeal to doesnt exist. SW is niche by it very nature. There could be 3 different sw mmos or even more reaching into the millions of subs. No one will get them all though.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Yes indeed. You see, for me, this article absolutely confirms that KOTOR Onlinw is coming but...
...It's not going to be a sandbox game at all but, instead, another WoW clone but set in the future.
Oh well, I hope they pull it off and the further exodus from the SWG servers will prompt SOE, in one last, desperate throw of the dice to set up a few pre-CU servers.
SWG sucked at launch. SWG sucked six months after launch. It sucked after the "combat update" and it sucked after the NGE. It's always sucked. Marketing wouldn't have changed that.
Whether it was solo grouping, AFK dancing, cross-server lot swapping, exploitive Mind DoTs, 99.9999% resist all composite armor, Life Day holocrons, or /KD+Dizzy, /unarmedhit3, /unarmedhit3, /unarmedhit3... the amount of suckiness in that game has been pervasive.
Look, I'm sure some of you had a grand 'ole time putzing around Coronet for hours on end, waiting for a shuttle, macro-spamming adverts for your vendor, standing in line for doc buffs, dueling to your heart's content, or grinding out your nth profession to "unlock" a glow-bat wrangler. But that doesn't change the fact that by and large the game sucked, was poorly supported/developed, and didn't have hardly a damn thing to do with Star Wars.
At best, it appealed to a niche audience; a player-base that would have been just as pleased if the genre was space, the wild west, or medieval europe.
But hey, you prefer to delude yourselves into believing that the game was "hardcore" or faithful to the movies? That you're somehow more sophisticated or ingenious than those who play World of Walkcraft? Knock yourself out.
I'll keep waiting for the industry to churn out something that isn't just another UO or EQ clone with fancier graphics.
SWG sucked at launch. SWG sucked six months after launch. It sucked after the "combat update" and it sucked after the NGE. It's always sucked. Marketing wouldn't have changed that.
Whether it was solo grouping, AFK dancing, cross-server lot swapping, exploitive Mind DoTs, 99.9999% resist all composite armor, Life Day holocrons, or /KD+Dizzy, /unarmedhit3, /unarmedhit3, /unarmedhit3... the amount of suckiness in that game has been pervasive.
Look, I'm sure some of you had a grand 'ole time putzing around Coronet for hours on end, waiting for a shuttle, macro-spamming adverts for your vendor, standing in line for doc buffs, dueling to your heart's content, or grinding out your nth profession to "unlock" a glow-bat wrangler. But that doesn't change the fact that by and large the game sucked, was poorly supported/developed, and didn't have hardly a damn thing to do with Star Wars.
At best, it appealed to a niche audience; a player-base that would have been just as pleased if the genre was space, the wild west, or medieval europe.
But hey, you prefer to delude yourselves into believing that the game was "hardcore" or faithful to the movies? That you're somehow more sophisticated or ingenious than those who play World of Walkcraft? Knock yourself out.
I'll keep waiting for the industry to churn out something that isn't just another UO or EQ clone with fancier graphics.
When one 'cuts to the chase', it means saying what you mean to say in a sentence or maybe even just a phrase, hell, even a clause will do. You don't have to give it 20+ lines.
Look let me do it for you: 'Let me cut to the chase; SWG was crap and I didn't get it'.
Now, let me cut to the chase in return; 'Yeah, that's pretty obvious, dude'.
'Suckiness'? He he. Haven't heard that word since I quit WoW. So, how are things over there with the pixies and whatnot?
Yes indeed. You see, for me, this article absolutely confirms that KOTOR Onlinw is coming but...
...It's not going to be a sandbox game at all but, instead, another WoW clone but set in the future.
Oh well, I hope they pull it off and the further exodus from the SWG servers will prompt SOE, in one last, desperate throw of the dice to set up a few pre-CU servers.
That interview got me even more excited about the bioware mmo. And just because they all play WoW and are going to use instances does not mean its going to be a WoW clone. One of the guys said that he plays Ultima Online and WoW at the same time, and the other guys play WoW also and different mmos. I think their mmo is going to be part sandbox and part instanced.
It makes me think of FF11 where zones were big enough to feel open enough to be a sandbox. And the only instances in the game were only in places that had to do with story driven events like bosses while the whole dungeon was open to all. But I am sure they will have full instances dungeons also.
They are using WoW not just to have fun but to learn at what it did best. One of the things best about WoW was the user interface as they said in the interview which I agree with because it made me learn how to play the game very fast, not boring and did not take my attention away from everything else in the game. The best kind of interface are the ones that I cant even see unless I press a specific button or the ones where they are on the screen but so small that i forget all about it. A good example of this is in the Lord Of the Rings Battle for Middle Earth RTS game. Since bioware says its going to be story heavy, they will probably come up with something like mass effects interface. The less visibility of the interface equals more immersion which is the most important feature of a story.
I think biowares mmo will be Multi-Platform. It will probably have Real-Time Combat that will surpass age of conans so called real time combat. I think it will be very fast action but in the right moments where it will not take the players attention away from the story and environment. I think its going to have a deep environmental interaction which I hope will feel natural and fluid, probably be a important element for combat and interacting with obstacles. And there are probably going to be many different choices to make that will make my character very different from other players experiences.
I think the main reason they are using the hero engine is because it allows developers to create content in half the time it takes for the usual mmo we have been playing these days. Which makes me believe that bioware will make new end game content at least every month so that people will not have to go through the same dungeon grind as in WoW. The only time I enjoy repeating dungeons if I am helping a friend or even a stranger if they ask nicely because I do not feel forced to for some armor or weapon drops.
If these are actualy come true in their mmo does that sound like a WoW clone? Knowing biowares past games i have never seen them clone another game instead they revolutionized the single player rpg genre.
SWG: PRE NGE was not a hardcore game. Casuals as well as hardcores could enjoy the game equally, without feeling left behind or having to catch up.
QFT, damn i miss that game.
The grinding in that was SO easy, plus you could respec when ever you werent locked in to a set class as you are in WoW.
What we need is another game like that, some of the best times i had were just bumming around my house putting items on the wall, to this day, ive NEVER found an MMO that i have enjoyed as much, SWG could be hardcore (becoming a jedi) or casual (Just sitting there making stuff, not having to level to make stuff as if i recall you gained levels via making stuff)
soloing an MMO ?? should be banned by MMO etiquette and every "MMO" basing on such stupid idea should be reviewed as unacceptable to MMO standards. If i join a world i will meet other people and yes i will depend on them and i have to. Do not join MMO if you don't wanna meet other people and depend on them >.<
That is a really silly misconception, the idea that solo'ing combat content is not valid mmo play style. Besides the fact that that very notion makes most crafting players not be valid mmo players as well, apparently you people assume that means also staying away from any city, auction, market, etc etc. Just like how crafters need to interact often for materials and the like, or to sell their wares... the soloist combateer also has to interact with civilisation in some form or other, to sell their loot, stock up on supplies, show off their prowess, etc etc. History is full of such types of soloist adventurers in the real world.
What your opinion is, in fact, is more akin to: "well i want to adventure with people, but people dont want to adventure with me, therefore let's make it so they are forced to join me" - instead of say.. forming a social bond with said solo-ist in the same way it is done in the real world, and then having them join you because you are a friend and worthy travel companion, not some random stranger that some game mechanic forced on them. Certainly that is the main reason why I tend to adventure solo in all the mmo's i've tried.. most people weren't worth my time to join up with, and the job got done much better without babysitting them. On the other hand a number of times random encounters with strangers far from civilisation led to all sorts of interesting social situations, including long term adventuring partnerships and even guild-joining.
As for Second Life being a game... Calling it a game is like calling the Internet a game.. it is not. It is a virtual environment which among other things contains games that people created and put up on their own, using the SL engine.
Edit:
As for the actual topic at hand.. until BioWare states just what it is they are doing, you are all wasting time and energy on useless speculation and argumentation. Be patient.
As for Second Life being a game... Calling it a game is like calling the Internet a game.. Edit: As for the actual topic at hand.. until BioWare states just what it is they are doing, you are all wasting time and energy on useless speculation and argumentation. Be patient.
Well obviously I play the Internet then in a far more interesting way than you do.
Edit:
There is an increasing amount of information coming out about this new LA/Bioware game. One of the great things about mmorpg.com is the way so many different posters are finding some many different fragments of information.
It is fun putting all that information together in 'speculation and argumentation' to see the different shapes it makes. I suppose that's why the Internet is such a fun game for some peope and, for others, just a channel to tell people what to do.
SWG sucked at launch. SWG sucked six months after launch. It sucked after the "combat update" and it sucked after the NGE. It's always sucked. Marketing wouldn't have changed that.
Whether it was solo grouping, AFK dancing, cross-server lot swapping, exploitive Mind DoTs, 99.9999% resist all composite armor, Life Day holocrons, or /KD+Dizzy, /unarmedhit3, /unarmedhit3, /unarmedhit3... the amount of suckiness in that game has been pervasive.
Look, I'm sure some of you had a grand 'ole time putzing around Coronet for hours on end, waiting for a shuttle, macro-spamming adverts for your vendor, standing in line for doc buffs, dueling to your heart's content, or grinding out your nth profession to "unlock" a glow-bat wrangler. But that doesn't change the fact that by and large the game sucked, was poorly supported/developed, and didn't have hardly a damn thing to do with Star Wars.
At best, it appealed to a niche audience; a player-base that would have been just as pleased if the genre was space, the wild west, or medieval europe.
But hey, you prefer to delude yourselves into believing that the game was "hardcore" or faithful to the movies? That you're somehow more sophisticated or ingenious than those who play World of Walkcraft? Knock yourself out.
I'll keep waiting for the industry to churn out something that isn't just another UO or EQ clone with fancier graphics.
Whatever the industry churns out..if its a sw mmo it will be a niche game.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Well obviously I play the Internet then in a far more interesting way than you do. Edit: There is an increasing amount of information coming out about this new LA/Bioware game. One of the great things about mmorpg.com is the way so many different posters are finding some many different fragments of information. It is fun putting all that information together in 'speculation and argumentation' to see the different shapes it makes. I suppose that's why the Internet is such a fun game for some peope and, for others, just a channel to tell people what to do.
Well one could consider oneself "playing the internet" if one wants, its still just a medium over which independent entities provide services reguardless of the infrastructure behind it. Just like in SL. (in fact sl is a pretty interesting experiment, a very very primitive form of what the internet might be in the not to distant future, assuming bw becomes more readily available... (i'm sure we've all read the relevant books)
No one is telling anyone what to do except to be patient, silly person. Reign in some of that will ya? The bottom line is there is no valid info about what the content of their mmo will be, just a few mechanics related statements that may or may not even have to do with that particular game-in-development. Lots of us have watched some of the SWG vets latch on irrationally to the notion that maybe their game will somehow come back from this bioware product, which is rather silly considering bioware's history with game styles and mechanics. Kotor was very linear and wow-like, for instance. But all that has been said time and time again and yet still there's this grasping at anything that might hint at validating the notion that the swg of old will one day return (and even if it did people would then complain about it, the very same people who wished it came back).
Okay, I'll bite. What parts specifically didn't I "get"?
How interactive "solo" grouping was?
How ingenious KD+Dizzy or "defense stacking" was?
How revolutionary recursive macros and AFK dancing/tumbling was?
How immersive it was to watch a three-foot tall Rodian solo an entire spawn of Enraged Rancor or Nightsisters on Dathomir... with nothing more than his bare fists and a chef Boyardee hat?
Or maybe you preferred an Imperial player, PvP'ing in a Stormtrooper helmet, power hammer and pink hawtpants?
Perhaps it was the much touted "player-driven" economy and crafting? Yeah, that was great... if you were an armorsmith. Correction, it was fantastic... if you were a credit duper or cross-server lot farmer. Not so much if you were a Droid Engineer. But hey, it's not like droids were ever really featured in any of the movies.
I won't even bother going into depth regarding Jedi. Suffice it to say, I couldn't imagine a more polarizing anathema for a supposedly "interdependent" game community if I tried.
So yeah, SWG was crap. And clearly, I didn't "get" it.
You want to assume that makes me a Blizzard fanboi? That I have a short-attention span, lack social skills and/or need to be coddled/directed in order to go kill 50 womprats on Tatooine? Um okay. Whatever makes you feel better, buddy.
So yeah, SWG was crap. And clearly, I didn't "get" it. Snip
Didn't I just tell you that? It sounds rather unoriginal coming from you now. So why are you going on and on about it?
Especially since every other goddamn thread for the last fifty pages of this forum specifically addresses all the other niggling little points you raise. Let me sum them up:
The NGE came about because SWG was bleeding subs. It was bleeding subs because SOE spent too much time and money churning out unnecessary expansions to hit us for the box costs rather than balancing the professions and fixing the bugs.
Are you kidding? Are you trying to downplay them as inconsequential or trivial? That they were only minor setbacks for those with short-attention spans?
SWG was bleeding subs because SOE spent too much time and money churning out unnecessary expansions?
Really? Like Jump to Lightspeed? Nevermind that it had an independent development team AND addressed one of SWG's most prominent criticisms (the lack of space content). This is what you're heralding as the primary reason the game was losing subscribers?
You're delusional. I'll tell you when SWG started bleeding subs: the day "holo-grinding" became commonplace.
SWG flopped because it was little more than a poorly conceived and self-indulgent Raph Koster attempt at re-creating his favorite MUD... with a semi-3D, graphical UI and John Williams soundtrack.
Balancing and bug fixing wasn't an issue because of expansions. It was an issue because the remaining post-launch developers neither: a) acknowledged there were problems, or b) were competent or familiar enough with the game (or its frankenstein code) to fix them. And what they were able to address was typically done in such a ham-fisted or short-sighted manner, it only exacerbated existing problems and/or created whole new ones.
Yes indeed. You see, for me, this article absolutely confirms that KOTOR Onlinw is coming but...
...It's not going to be a sandbox game at all but, instead, another WoW clone but set in the future.
Oh well, I hope they pull it off and the further exodus from the SWG servers will prompt SOE, in one last, desperate throw of the dice to set up a few pre-CU servers.
That interview got me even more excited about the bioware mmo. And just because they all play WoW and are going to use instances does not mean its going to be a WoW clone. One of the guys said that he plays Ultima Online and WoW at the same time, and the other guys play WoW also and different mmos. I think their mmo is going to be part sandbox and part instanced.
It makes me think of FF11 where zones were big enough to feel open enough to be a sandbox. And the only instances in the game were only in places that had to do with story driven events like bosses while the whole dungeon was open to all. But I am sure they will have full instances dungeons also.
They are using WoW not just to have fun but to learn at what it did best. One of the things best about WoW was the user interface as they said in the interview which I agree with because it made me learn how to play the game very fast, not boring and did not take my attention away from everything else in the game. The best kind of interface are the ones that I cant even see unless I press a specific button or the ones where they are on the screen but so small that i forget all about it. A good example of this is in the Lord Of the Rings Battle for Middle Earth RTS game. Since bioware says its going to be story heavy, they will probably come up with something like mass effects interface. The less visibility of the interface equals more immersion which is the most important feature of a story.
I think biowares mmo will be Multi-Platform. It will probably have Real-Time Combat that will surpass age of conans so called real time combat. I think it will be very fast action but in the right moments where it will not take the players attention away from the story and environment. I think its going to have a deep environmental interaction which I hope will feel natural and fluid, probably be a important element for combat and interacting with obstacles. And there are probably going to be many different choices to make that will make my character very different from other players experiences.
I think the main reason they are using the hero engine is because it allows developers to create content in half the time it takes for the usual mmo we have been playing these days. Which makes me believe that bioware will make new end game content at least every month so that people will not have to go through the same dungeon grind as in WoW. The only time I enjoy repeating dungeons if I am helping a friend or even a stranger if they ask nicely because I do not feel forced to for some armor or weapon drops.
If these are actualy come true in their mmo does that sound like a WoW clone? Knowing biowares past games i have never seen them clone another game instead they revolutionized the single player rpg genre.
Multiplatform - Hell yes that a definate , it makes sense to cross the borders of Pc and console play.
WoW - Another World of warcraft clone? nope dont think so , bioware wont make that mistake, frankly i always thought WoW was a dumbed down attempt at every game bioware ever made.
Instancing - Instancing can be a good thing, most bioware games are just instance after instance but worked very effectivly. DDO makes very good use of this , ok yes DDO doesnt feel like a true mmo but because they instance the game they can add a lot more than "go kill 100 generic_monster106" like entire dungeons loaded up with more puzzles and traps than you can throw a +10 mace of pawnage at. Bioware just love adding stuff like that to there games and i love them for it.
Questing - Multiple branched quests would be something I'd like to see, instead of having to go kill a guy you could take a villianous approach and start working for the guy you were sopposed to kill in the first place, things like that would make your experience of the game unique.
Okay, I'll bite. What parts specifically didn't I "get"?
How interactive "solo" grouping was? Exploit that should have been fixed.
How ingenious KD+Dizzy or "defense stacking" was? Fix put off until fabled Combat Fix which became the CU
How revolutionary recursive macros and AFK dancing/tumbling was? It was the utilization and importance of secondary professions that was "new"
How immersive it was to watch a three-foot tall Rodian solo an entire spawn of Enraged Rancor or Nightsisters on Dathomir... with nothing more than his bare fists and a chef Boyardee hat? Not very. NPC's where gimped by SOE post launch. Again Combat was suppose to be addressed with a combat fix addressing Dathomir npc's being to easy.
Or maybe you preferred an Imperial player, PvP'ing in a Stormtrooper helmet, power hammer and pink hawtpants? Never saw this personally but I doubt highly that selection of gear was effective for PVP and I would have pwnd that newb repeatedly.
Perhaps it was the much touted "player-driven" economy and crafting? Yeah, that was great... if you were an armorsmith. Correction, it was fantastic... if you were a credit duper or cross-server lot farmer. Not so much if you were a Droid Engineer. But hey, it's not like droids were ever really featured in any of the movies. Droids did get fixed at one point in the game then re nerfed by soe.
I won't even bother going into depth regarding Jedi. Suffice it to say, I couldn't imagine a more polarizing anathema for a supposedly "interdependent" game community if I tried. Permadeath and visibility worked until nerfed.
So yeah, SWG was crap. And clearly, I didn't "get" it. It wasn't crap. It had some issues no doubt. I personally liked it and found a great community on tempest to game with. Maybe you had no friends ingame because you have an attitude of a debbie downer.
You want to assume that makes me a Blizzard fanboi? That I have a short-attention span, lack social skills and/or need to be coddled/directed in order to go kill 50 womprats on Tatooine? Um okay. Whatever makes you feel better, buddy. Guided content is all wow has. Sorry but that game is TERRIBLE. IMO. MMO games are suppose to be a genre you play differently then fps, or rpgs. WoW plays like any console game. The industry and apparently gamers perverted what an MMORPG was to be. Thanks Console gamers.
Keep living the dream of SWG's former glory. I would if I could play pre-cu swg.
SWG sucked at launch. SWG sucked six months after launch. It sucked after the "combat update" and it sucked after the NGE. It's always sucked. Marketing wouldn't have changed that.
Whether it was solo grouping, AFK dancing, cross-server lot swapping, exploitive Mind DoTs, 99.9999% resist all composite armor, Life Day holocrons, or /KD+Dizzy, /unarmedhit3, /unarmedhit3, /unarmedhit3... the amount of suckiness in that game has been pervasive.
Look, I'm sure some of you had a grand 'ole time putzing around Coronet for hours on end, waiting for a shuttle, macro-spamming adverts for your vendor, standing in line for doc buffs, dueling to your heart's content, or grinding out your nth profession to "unlock" a glow-bat wrangler. But that doesn't change the fact that by and large the game sucked, was poorly supported/developed, and didn't have hardly a damn thing to do with Star Wars.
At best, it appealed to a niche audience; a player-base that would have been just as pleased if the genre was space, the wild west, or medieval europe.
But hey, you prefer to delude yourselves into believing that the game was "hardcore" or faithful to the movies? That you're somehow more sophisticated or ingenious than those who play World of Walkcraft? Knock yourself out.
I'll keep waiting for the industry to churn out something that isn't just another UO or EQ clone with fancier graphics.
Are you kidding? Are you trying to downplay them as inconsequential or trivial? That they were only minor setbacks for those with short-attention spans?
SWG was bleeding subs because SOE spent too much time and money churning out unnecessary expansions?
Really? Like Jump to Lightspeed? Nevermind that it had an independent development team AND addressed one of SWG's most prominent criticisms (the lack of space content). This is what you're heralding as the primary reason the game was losing subscribers?
You're delusional. I'll tell you when SWG started bleeding subs: the day "holo-grinding" became commonplace.
SWG flopped because it was little more than a poorly conceived and self-indulgent Raph Koster attempt at re-creating his favorite MUD... with a semi-3D, graphical UI and John Williams soundtrack.
Balancing and bug fixing wasn't an issue because of expansions. It was an issue because the remaining post-launch developers neither: a) acknowledged there were problems, or b) were competent or familiar enough with the game (or its frankenstein code) to fix them. And what they were able to address was typically done in such a ham-fisted or short-sighted manner, it only exacerbated existing problems and/or created whole new ones.
QFT!!!!
Finally someone tells it like it was no rose tinted specs here just straight talking and a lot of common sense too
Okay, I'll bite. What parts specifically didn't I "get"?
How interactive "solo" grouping was? creative way gamer invented to make money without having to craft - player balanced the game by themselves so to speak, and that is not only interactive but changing the whole rules of the world btw a simple reworking the buff system would have made it impossible.
How ingenious KD+Dizzy or "defense stacking" was? If they had ever fixed "conceal shot" for example there would have been alternative tactics to that. Snares and move control could have been introduced PRE CU, you don't need CU/NGE for them.
How revolutionary recursive macros and AFK dancing/tumbling was? Again an creative way of gamer to make their lives easier. IMO anything that let you continue offer your services while you AFK is a very good aspect.
How immersive it was to watch a three-foot tall Rodian solo an entire spawn of Enraged Rancor or Nightsisters on Dathomir... with nothing more than his bare fists and a chef Boyardee hat? That was cool, a chef goes mad. If you talk about general aspect of PVE become too easy. Fix buffs make NPC stronger and thats it.
Or maybe you preferred an Imperial player, PvP'ing in a Stormtrooper helmet, power hammer and pink hawtpants? An MMO world is more honest if you have the freedom and the chance to break the rules about tastefulness of customization. If you wanna avoid to meet such people play single player games.
Perhaps it was the much touted "player-driven" economy and crafting? Yeah, that was great... if you were an armorsmith. Correction, it was fantastic... if you were a credit duper or cross-server lot farmer. Not so much if you were a Droid Engineer. But hey, it's not like droids were ever really featured in any of the movies. Market can be cruel to someone, thats MMORPG, i admit i wasn't that much into droid crafting, but in the game design droids where everywhere. The helper of docs , helper of entertainer, helper of the merchants, helper of the BH they were there. The rest you talk about cheater ?
I won't even bother going into depth regarding Jedi. Suffice it to say, I couldn't imagine a more polarizing anathema for a supposedly "interdependent" game community if I tried. Jedi should be hard to become, like it should be. Jedi or not Jedi at all its another question, if you keep the alpha class rare , design can be successfull.
So yeah, SWG was crap. And clearly, I didn't "get" it. Nope, you didn't obviously .
You want to assume that makes me a Blizzard fanboi? That I have a short-attention span, lack social skills and/or need to be coddled/directed in order to go kill 50 womprats on Tatooine? Um okay. Whatever makes you feel better, buddy. Intresting you use these characterisations about WoW gamer LOL
Keep living the dream of SWG's former glory. Yeah ! it was a great MMO , the best online world i was ever connected into.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
So yeah, SWG was crap. And clearly, I didn't "get" it. Snip
Didn't I just tell you that? It sounds rather unoriginal coming from you now. So why are you going on and on about it?
Especially since every other goddamn thread for the last fifty pages of this forum specifically addresses all the other niggling little points you raise. Let me sum them up:
The NGE came about because SWG was bleeding subs. It was bleeding subs because SOE spent too much time and money churning out unnecessary expansions to hit us for the box costs rather than balancing the professions and fixing the bugs.
I only recall 3 expansions,one of which should have been in from the off,one a movie tie in and the other a bit of fluff.
Yes the bugs should have been fixed but then again Koster and his crew should have made a game that was easier to work on instead of allowing his giant sized ego to doom the game from the off with an impossible ammount of proffs and generally undercooked world
Okay, I'll bite. What parts specifically didn't I "get"?
How interactive "solo" grouping was?
How ingenious KD+Dizzy or "defense stacking" was?
How revolutionary recursive macros and AFK dancing/tumbling was?
How immersive it was to watch a three-foot tall Rodian solo an entire spawn of Enraged Rancor or Nightsisters on Dathomir... with nothing more than his bare fists and a chef Boyardee hat?
Or maybe you preferred an Imperial player, PvP'ing in a Stormtrooper helmet, power hammer and pink hawtpants?
Perhaps it was the much touted "player-driven" economy and crafting? Yeah, that was great... if you were an armorsmith. Correction, it was fantastic... if you were a credit duper or cross-server lot farmer. Not so much if you were a Droid Engineer. But hey, it's not like droids were ever really featured in any of the movies.
I won't even bother going into depth regarding Jedi. Suffice it to say, I couldn't imagine a more polarizing anathema for a supposedly "interdependent" game community if I tried.
So yeah, SWG was crap. And clearly, I didn't "get" it.
You want to assume that makes me a Blizzard fanboi? That I have a short-attention span, lack social skills and/or need to be coddled/directed in order to go kill 50 womprats on Tatooine? Um okay. Whatever makes you feel better, buddy.
Keep living the dream of SWG's former glory.
You type so much but read so little. Your interminable list of 'game-breaking bugs and imbalances'? Ever read a Blizzard patch note? They fix these kind of problems and more in a single patch. SOE never could? Why not? Because they were too busy making expansions and combat upgrades. Now wonder ADD kids like you were going mad.
SWG sucked at launch. SWG sucked six months after launch. It sucked after the "combat update" and it sucked after the NGE. It's always sucked. Marketing wouldn't have changed that.
Whether it was solo grouping, AFK dancing, cross-server lot swapping, exploitive Mind DoTs, 99.9999% resist all composite armor, Life Day holocrons, or /KD+Dizzy, /unarmedhit3, /unarmedhit3, /unarmedhit3... the amount of suckiness in that game has been pervasive.
Look, I'm sure some of you had a grand 'ole time putzing around Coronet for hours on end, waiting for a shuttle, macro-spamming adverts for your vendor, standing in line for doc buffs, dueling to your heart's content, or grinding out your nth profession to "unlock" a glow-bat wrangler. But that doesn't change the fact that by and large the game sucked, was poorly supported/developed, and didn't have hardly a damn thing to do with Star Wars.
At best, it appealed to a niche audience; a player-base that would have been just as pleased if the genre was space, the wild west, or medieval europe.
But hey, you prefer to delude yourselves into believing that the game was "hardcore" or faithful to the movies? That you're somehow more sophisticated or ingenious than those who play World of Walkcraft? Knock yourself out.
I'll keep waiting for the industry to churn out something that isn't just another UO or EQ clone with fancier graphics.
Whatever the industry churns out..if its a sw mmo it will be a niche game.
What crack are you smoking? If you are trying to say that the IP a game is based off of has an effect on how big a game is...well then, Star Wars is about a million times bigger than Warcraft ever was before WoW. Warcraft was a niche IP because it was in the videogame universe, while Starwars has been on the big screen for over 30 years.
SWG should have been the biggest MMO ever. The amount of people still playing it JUST because it's Star Wars should be proof enough. The game sucks and yet hundreds of thousands still pay for it because it's starwars. Nobody bought WoW because it was Warcraft, but people bought SWG because it was starwars. Both games however prove it's the game that sells, not the IP.
Whatever the industry churns out..if its a sw mmo it will be a niche game.
What crack are you smoking? If you are trying to say that the IP a game is based off of has an effect on how big a game is...well then, Star Wars is about a million times bigger than Warcraft ever was before WoW. Warcraft was a niche IP because it was in the videogame universe, while Starwars has been on the big screen for over 30 years.
SWG should have been the biggest MMO ever. The amount of people still playing it JUST because it's Star Wars should be proof enough. The game sucks and yet hundreds of thousands still pay for it because it's starwars. Nobody bought WoW because it was Warcraft, but people bought SWG because it was starwars. Both games however prove it's the game that sells, not the IP.
Well, let me try again..I dont think before i post sometimes which is obvious. SW fans are a niche audience. What I mean is, Yes there is millions of them. But they have different tastes in games. A sw mmo may have 1 mil subs...but the people playing it because they are sw fans will be 200-300k. The rest will play it for the game. The rest of the sw fans will cry because they dont like that game. SW ip doesnt mean your going to get 1 mil subs if you have a good game..it means your at least gonna get 200-300k. A kotor mmo would get more being that they already have an existing fan base i would assume. Because the IP is so popular doesnt mean a SW mmo will be the most popular MMO ever. It means your at least gonna get some for sure being that there are so many SW fans. There is no one game that will bring all sw fans, not even all sw fans that want to play an mmo together.
The warcraft IP has little to do with its success. What Blizzard did with WOW would take 20 years to immitate if it were possible to immitate. To copy them with a sw mmo would only get you the sw fans who like linear grinds which the nge and cu have proven is a very small audience and no one else was interested.
The original concept..note I say concept not the POS we were delivered was the right approach IMO. A virtual world can have many games in it. Directed quests, open endedness, crafting, social things, all being games that people can enjoy..yet tied together still. This way the most sw fans are reached and also people who will play for just one or 2 of the games inside the world. Linear games limit your audience to those who only want a linear game...it doesnt broaden your audience like people are claiming. Every post Ive seen in this thread dissing pre-cu list problems that were never intended...and lack of content because they released the game before they got around to adding it, then never did. They had the basic systems functional, not tested. Alpha state type stuff..and went live. then called it a pure sandbox and blamed the concept for the failure.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Comments
Aye, I firmly believe that SWG pre-NGE was on to something. It's a shame SOE didnt' give the players much content to play with. But I agree, the NGE was a step back for the game.
This mythical millions of sw fans that a sw mmo could appeal to doesnt exist. SW is niche by it very nature. There could be 3 different sw mmos or even more reaching into the millions of subs. No one will get them all though.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Yes indeed. You see, for me, this article absolutely confirms that KOTOR Onlinw is coming but...
...It's not going to be a sandbox game at all but, instead, another WoW clone but set in the future.
Oh well, I hope they pull it off and the further exodus from the SWG servers will prompt SOE, in one last, desperate throw of the dice to set up a few pre-CU servers.
Look, I'll just cut to the chase.
SWG sucked at launch. SWG sucked six months after launch. It sucked after the "combat update" and it sucked after the NGE. It's always sucked. Marketing wouldn't have changed that.
Whether it was solo grouping, AFK dancing, cross-server lot swapping, exploitive Mind DoTs, 99.9999% resist all composite armor, Life Day holocrons, or /KD+Dizzy, /unarmedhit3, /unarmedhit3, /unarmedhit3... the amount of suckiness in that game has been pervasive.
Look, I'm sure some of you had a grand 'ole time putzing around Coronet for hours on end, waiting for a shuttle, macro-spamming adverts for your vendor, standing in line for doc buffs, dueling to your heart's content, or grinding out your nth profession to "unlock" a glow-bat wrangler. But that doesn't change the fact that by and large the game sucked, was poorly supported/developed, and didn't have hardly a damn thing to do with Star Wars.
At best, it appealed to a niche audience; a player-base that would have been just as pleased if the genre was space, the wild west, or medieval europe.
But hey, you prefer to delude yourselves into believing that the game was "hardcore" or faithful to the movies? That you're somehow more sophisticated or ingenious than those who play World of Walkcraft? Knock yourself out.
I'll keep waiting for the industry to churn out something that isn't just another UO or EQ clone with fancier graphics.
If EA has anything to do with it
It will probably suck
When one 'cuts to the chase', it means saying what you mean to say in a sentence or maybe even just a phrase, hell, even a clause will do. You don't have to give it 20+ lines.
Look let me do it for you: 'Let me cut to the chase; SWG was crap and I didn't get it'.
Now, let me cut to the chase in return; 'Yeah, that's pretty obvious, dude'.
'Suckiness'? He he. Haven't heard that word since I quit WoW. So, how are things over there with the pixies and whatnot?
Yes indeed. You see, for me, this article absolutely confirms that KOTOR Onlinw is coming but...
...It's not going to be a sandbox game at all but, instead, another WoW clone but set in the future.
Oh well, I hope they pull it off and the further exodus from the SWG servers will prompt SOE, in one last, desperate throw of the dice to set up a few pre-CU servers.
That interview got me even more excited about the bioware mmo. And just because they all play WoW and are going to use instances does not mean its going to be a WoW clone. One of the guys said that he plays Ultima Online and WoW at the same time, and the other guys play WoW also and different mmos. I think their mmo is going to be part sandbox and part instanced.It makes me think of FF11 where zones were big enough to feel open enough to be a sandbox. And the only instances in the game were only in places that had to do with story driven events like bosses while the whole dungeon was open to all. But I am sure they will have full instances dungeons also.
They are using WoW not just to have fun but to learn at what it did best. One of the things best about WoW was the user interface as they said in the interview which I agree with because it made me learn how to play the game very fast, not boring and did not take my attention away from everything else in the game. The best kind of interface are the ones that I cant even see unless I press a specific button or the ones where they are on the screen but so small that i forget all about it. A good example of this is in the Lord Of the Rings Battle for Middle Earth RTS game. Since bioware says its going to be story heavy, they will probably come up with something like mass effects interface. The less visibility of the interface equals more immersion which is the most important feature of a story.
I think biowares mmo will be Multi-Platform. It will probably have Real-Time Combat that will surpass age of conans so called real time combat. I think it will be very fast action but in the right moments where it will not take the players attention away from the story and environment. I think its going to have a deep environmental interaction which I hope will feel natural and fluid, probably be a important element for combat and interacting with obstacles. And there are probably going to be many different choices to make that will make my character very different from other players experiences.
I think the main reason they are using the hero engine is because it allows developers to create content in half the time it takes for the usual mmo we have been playing these days. Which makes me believe that bioware will make new end game content at least every month so that people will not have to go through the same dungeon grind as in WoW. The only time I enjoy repeating dungeons if I am helping a friend or even a stranger if they ask nicely because I do not feel forced to for some armor or weapon drops.
If these are actualy come true in their mmo does that sound like a WoW clone? Knowing biowares past games i have never seen them clone another game instead they revolutionized the single player rpg genre.
QFT, damn i miss that game.
The grinding in that was SO easy, plus you could respec when ever you werent locked in to a set class as you are in WoW.
What we need is another game like that, some of the best times i had were just bumming around my house putting items on the wall, to this day, ive NEVER found an MMO that i have enjoyed as much, SWG could be hardcore (becoming a jedi) or casual (Just sitting there making stuff, not having to level to make stuff as if i recall you gained levels via making stuff)
That is a really silly misconception, the idea that solo'ing combat content is not valid mmo play style. Besides the fact that that very notion makes most crafting players not be valid mmo players as well, apparently you people assume that means also staying away from any city, auction, market, etc etc. Just like how crafters need to interact often for materials and the like, or to sell their wares... the soloist combateer also has to interact with civilisation in some form or other, to sell their loot, stock up on supplies, show off their prowess, etc etc. History is full of such types of soloist adventurers in the real world.
What your opinion is, in fact, is more akin to: "well i want to adventure with people, but people dont want to adventure with me, therefore let's make it so they are forced to join me" - instead of say.. forming a social bond with said solo-ist in the same way it is done in the real world, and then having them join you because you are a friend and worthy travel companion, not some random stranger that some game mechanic forced on them. Certainly that is the main reason why I tend to adventure solo in all the mmo's i've tried.. most people weren't worth my time to join up with, and the job got done much better without babysitting them. On the other hand a number of times random encounters with strangers far from civilisation led to all sorts of interesting social situations, including long term adventuring partnerships and even guild-joining.
As for Second Life being a game... Calling it a game is like calling the Internet a game.. it is not. It is a virtual environment which among other things contains games that people created and put up on their own, using the SL engine.
Edit:
As for the actual topic at hand.. until BioWare states just what it is they are doing, you are all wasting time and energy on useless speculation and argumentation. Be patient.
Well obviously I play the Internet then in a far more interesting way than you do.
Edit:
There is an increasing amount of information coming out about this new LA/Bioware game. One of the great things about mmorpg.com is the way so many different posters are finding some many different fragments of information.
It is fun putting all that information together in 'speculation and argumentation' to see the different shapes it makes. I suppose that's why the Internet is such a fun game for some peope and, for others, just a channel to tell people what to do.
Whatever the industry churns out..if its a sw mmo it will be a niche game.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Well one could consider oneself "playing the internet" if one wants, its still just a medium over which independent entities provide services reguardless of the infrastructure behind it. Just like in SL. (in fact sl is a pretty interesting experiment, a very very primitive form of what the internet might be in the not to distant future, assuming bw becomes more readily available... (i'm sure we've all read the relevant books)
No one is telling anyone what to do except to be patient, silly person. Reign in some of that
will ya? The bottom line is there is no valid info about what the content of their mmo will be, just a few mechanics related statements that may or may not even have to do with that particular game-in-development. Lots of us have watched some of the SWG vets latch on irrationally to the notion that maybe their game will somehow come back from this bioware product, which is rather silly considering bioware's history with game styles and mechanics. Kotor was very linear and wow-like, for instance. But all that has been said time and time again and yet still there's this grasping at anything that might hint at validating the notion that the swg of old will one day return (and even if it did people would then complain about it, the very same people who wished it came back).
Okay, I'll bite. What parts specifically didn't I "get"?
How interactive "solo" grouping was?
How ingenious KD+Dizzy or "defense stacking" was?
How revolutionary recursive macros and AFK dancing/tumbling was?
How immersive it was to watch a three-foot tall Rodian solo an entire spawn of Enraged Rancor or Nightsisters on Dathomir... with nothing more than his bare fists and a chef Boyardee hat?
Or maybe you preferred an Imperial player, PvP'ing in a Stormtrooper helmet, power hammer and pink hawtpants?
Perhaps it was the much touted "player-driven" economy and crafting? Yeah, that was great... if you were an armorsmith. Correction, it was fantastic... if you were a credit duper or cross-server lot farmer. Not so much if you were a Droid Engineer. But hey, it's not like droids were ever really featured in any of the movies.
I won't even bother going into depth regarding Jedi. Suffice it to say, I couldn't imagine a more polarizing anathema for a supposedly "interdependent" game community if I tried.
So yeah, SWG was crap. And clearly, I didn't "get" it.
You want to assume that makes me a Blizzard fanboi? That I have a short-attention span, lack social skills and/or need to be coddled/directed in order to go kill 50 womprats on Tatooine? Um okay. Whatever makes you feel better, buddy.
Keep living the dream of SWG's former glory.
Didn't I just tell you that? It sounds rather unoriginal coming from you now. So why are you going on and on about it?
Especially since every other goddamn thread for the last fifty pages of this forum specifically addresses all the other niggling little points you raise. Let me sum them up:
The NGE came about because SWG was bleeding subs. It was bleeding subs because SOE spent too much time and money churning out unnecessary expansions to hit us for the box costs rather than balancing the professions and fixing the bugs.
"Niggling little points"?
Are you kidding? Are you trying to downplay them as inconsequential or trivial? That they were only minor setbacks for those with short-attention spans?
SWG was bleeding subs because SOE spent too much time and money churning out unnecessary expansions?
Really? Like Jump to Lightspeed? Nevermind that it had an independent development team AND addressed one of SWG's most prominent criticisms (the lack of space content). This is what you're heralding as the primary reason the game was losing subscribers?
You're delusional. I'll tell you when SWG started bleeding subs: the day "holo-grinding" became commonplace.
SWG flopped because it was little more than a poorly conceived and self-indulgent Raph Koster attempt at re-creating his favorite MUD... with a semi-3D, graphical UI and John Williams soundtrack.
Balancing and bug fixing wasn't an issue because of expansions. It was an issue because the remaining post-launch developers neither: a) acknowledged there were problems, or b) were competent or familiar enough with the game (or its frankenstein code) to fix them. And what they were able to address was typically done in such a ham-fisted or short-sighted manner, it only exacerbated existing problems and/or created whole new ones.
Yes indeed. You see, for me, this article absolutely confirms that KOTOR Onlinw is coming but...
...It's not going to be a sandbox game at all but, instead, another WoW clone but set in the future.
Oh well, I hope they pull it off and the further exodus from the SWG servers will prompt SOE, in one last, desperate throw of the dice to set up a few pre-CU servers.
That interview got me even more excited about the bioware mmo. And just because they all play WoW and are going to use instances does not mean its going to be a WoW clone. One of the guys said that he plays Ultima Online and WoW at the same time, and the other guys play WoW also and different mmos. I think their mmo is going to be part sandbox and part instanced.It makes me think of FF11 where zones were big enough to feel open enough to be a sandbox. And the only instances in the game were only in places that had to do with story driven events like bosses while the whole dungeon was open to all. But I am sure they will have full instances dungeons also.
They are using WoW not just to have fun but to learn at what it did best. One of the things best about WoW was the user interface as they said in the interview which I agree with because it made me learn how to play the game very fast, not boring and did not take my attention away from everything else in the game. The best kind of interface are the ones that I cant even see unless I press a specific button or the ones where they are on the screen but so small that i forget all about it. A good example of this is in the Lord Of the Rings Battle for Middle Earth RTS game. Since bioware says its going to be story heavy, they will probably come up with something like mass effects interface. The less visibility of the interface equals more immersion which is the most important feature of a story.
I think biowares mmo will be Multi-Platform. It will probably have Real-Time Combat that will surpass age of conans so called real time combat. I think it will be very fast action but in the right moments where it will not take the players attention away from the story and environment. I think its going to have a deep environmental interaction which I hope will feel natural and fluid, probably be a important element for combat and interacting with obstacles. And there are probably going to be many different choices to make that will make my character very different from other players experiences.
I think the main reason they are using the hero engine is because it allows developers to create content in half the time it takes for the usual mmo we have been playing these days. Which makes me believe that bioware will make new end game content at least every month so that people will not have to go through the same dungeon grind as in WoW. The only time I enjoy repeating dungeons if I am helping a friend or even a stranger if they ask nicely because I do not feel forced to for some armor or weapon drops.
If these are actualy come true in their mmo does that sound like a WoW clone? Knowing biowares past games i have never seen them clone another game instead they revolutionized the single player rpg genre.
Multiplatform - Hell yes that a definate , it makes sense to cross the borders of Pc and console play.
WoW - Another World of warcraft clone? nope dont think so , bioware wont make that mistake, frankly i always thought WoW was a dumbed down attempt at every game bioware ever made.
Instancing - Instancing can be a good thing, most bioware games are just instance after instance but worked very effectivly. DDO makes very good use of this , ok yes DDO doesnt feel like a true mmo but because they instance the game they can add a lot more than "go kill 100 generic_monster106" like entire dungeons loaded up with more puzzles and traps than you can throw a +10 mace of pawnage at. Bioware just love adding stuff like that to there games and i love them for it.
Questing - Multiple branched quests would be something I'd like to see, instead of having to go kill a guy you could take a villianous approach and start working for the guy you were sopposed to kill in the first place, things like that would make your experience of the game unique.
Okay, I'll bite. What parts specifically didn't I "get"?
How interactive "solo" grouping was? Exploit that should have been fixed.
How ingenious KD+Dizzy or "defense stacking" was? Fix put off until fabled Combat Fix which became the CU
How revolutionary recursive macros and AFK dancing/tumbling was? It was the utilization and importance of secondary professions that was "new"
How immersive it was to watch a three-foot tall Rodian solo an entire spawn of Enraged Rancor or Nightsisters on Dathomir... with nothing more than his bare fists and a chef Boyardee hat? Not very. NPC's where gimped by SOE post launch. Again Combat was suppose to be addressed with a combat fix addressing Dathomir npc's being to easy.
Or maybe you preferred an Imperial player, PvP'ing in a Stormtrooper helmet, power hammer and pink hawtpants? Never saw this personally but I doubt highly that selection of gear was effective for PVP and I would have pwnd that newb repeatedly.
Perhaps it was the much touted "player-driven" economy and crafting? Yeah, that was great... if you were an armorsmith. Correction, it was fantastic... if you were a credit duper or cross-server lot farmer. Not so much if you were a Droid Engineer. But hey, it's not like droids were ever really featured in any of the movies. Droids did get fixed at one point in the game then re nerfed by soe.
I won't even bother going into depth regarding Jedi. Suffice it to say, I couldn't imagine a more polarizing anathema for a supposedly "interdependent" game community if I tried. Permadeath and visibility worked until nerfed.
So yeah, SWG was crap. And clearly, I didn't "get" it. It wasn't crap. It had some issues no doubt. I personally liked it and found a great community on tempest to game with. Maybe you had no friends ingame because you have an attitude of a debbie downer.
You want to assume that makes me a Blizzard fanboi? That I have a short-attention span, lack social skills and/or need to be coddled/directed in order to go kill 50 womprats on Tatooine? Um okay. Whatever makes you feel better, buddy. Guided content is all wow has. Sorry but that game is TERRIBLE. IMO. MMO games are suppose to be a genre you play differently then fps, or rpgs. WoW plays like any console game. The industry and apparently gamers perverted what an MMORPG was to be. Thanks Console gamers.
Keep living the dream of SWG's former glory. I would if I could play pre-cu swg.
Simply nailed it. It was funny too
Finally someone tells it like it was no rose tinted specs here just straight talking and a lot of common sense too
I salute you sir!!
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Didn't I just tell you that? It sounds rather unoriginal coming from you now. So why are you going on and on about it?
Especially since every other goddamn thread for the last fifty pages of this forum specifically addresses all the other niggling little points you raise. Let me sum them up:
The NGE came about because SWG was bleeding subs. It was bleeding subs because SOE spent too much time and money churning out unnecessary expansions to hit us for the box costs rather than balancing the professions and fixing the bugs.
I only recall 3 expansions,one of which should have been in from the off,one a movie tie in and the other a bit of fluff.Yes the bugs should have been fixed but then again Koster and his crew should have made a game that was easier to work on instead of allowing his giant sized ego to doom the game from the off with an impossible ammount of proffs and generally undercooked world
You type so much but read so little. Your interminable list of 'game-breaking bugs and imbalances'? Ever read a Blizzard patch note? They fix these kind of problems and more in a single patch. SOE never could? Why not? Because they were too busy making expansions and combat upgrades. Now wonder ADD kids like you were going mad.
Whatever the industry churns out..if its a sw mmo it will be a niche game.
What crack are you smoking? If you are trying to say that the IP a game is based off of has an effect on how big a game is...well then, Star Wars is about a million times bigger than Warcraft ever was before WoW. Warcraft was a niche IP because it was in the videogame universe, while Starwars has been on the big screen for over 30 years.
SWG should have been the biggest MMO ever. The amount of people still playing it JUST because it's Star Wars should be proof enough. The game sucks and yet hundreds of thousands still pay for it because it's starwars. Nobody bought WoW because it was Warcraft, but people bought SWG because it was starwars. Both games however prove it's the game that sells, not the IP.
What crack are you smoking? If you are trying to say that the IP a game is based off of has an effect on how big a game is...well then, Star Wars is about a million times bigger than Warcraft ever was before WoW. Warcraft was a niche IP because it was in the videogame universe, while Starwars has been on the big screen for over 30 years.
SWG should have been the biggest MMO ever. The amount of people still playing it JUST because it's Star Wars should be proof enough. The game sucks and yet hundreds of thousands still pay for it because it's starwars. Nobody bought WoW because it was Warcraft, but people bought SWG because it was starwars. Both games however prove it's the game that sells, not the IP.
Well, let me try again..I dont think before i post sometimes which is obvious. SW fans are a niche audience. What I mean is, Yes there is millions of them. But they have different tastes in games. A sw mmo may have 1 mil subs...but the people playing it because they are sw fans will be 200-300k. The rest will play it for the game. The rest of the sw fans will cry because they dont like that game. SW ip doesnt mean your going to get 1 mil subs if you have a good game..it means your at least gonna get 200-300k. A kotor mmo would get more being that they already have an existing fan base i would assume. Because the IP is so popular doesnt mean a SW mmo will be the most popular MMO ever. It means your at least gonna get some for sure being that there are so many SW fans. There is no one game that will bring all sw fans, not even all sw fans that want to play an mmo together.
The warcraft IP has little to do with its success. What Blizzard did with WOW would take 20 years to immitate if it were possible to immitate. To copy them with a sw mmo would only get you the sw fans who like linear grinds which the nge and cu have proven is a very small audience and no one else was interested.
The original concept..note I say concept not the POS we were delivered was the right approach IMO. A virtual world can have many games in it. Directed quests, open endedness, crafting, social things, all being games that people can enjoy..yet tied together still. This way the most sw fans are reached and also people who will play for just one or 2 of the games inside the world. Linear games limit your audience to those who only want a linear game...it doesnt broaden your audience like people are claiming. Every post Ive seen in this thread dissing pre-cu list problems that were never intended...and lack of content because they released the game before they got around to adding it, then never did. They had the basic systems functional, not tested. Alpha state type stuff..and went live. then called it a pure sandbox and blamed the concept for the failure.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.