You obviously don't understand the game very well. with everything being player made population is needed just to get all things made and done at a reasonable price. One player cannot possibly produce all the items he will need so if pops are as low as they are now he not only has few people selling and making what he needs but few people to sell what he makes to earn money to buy anything. And mid and end game is all about PvP - so far, wandering around the open sea not seeing a single enemy let alone one attackable = boring.
Let me explain in more detail:
As you point out in the economy everything is player made (apart from fall back ships & some low lvl loot)
Therefore on high population servers production is high & as PVP rewards do not compensate for the risk there will likely be an oversupply of ship deeds due to insufficient ship loss.
Low DB income = low demand = labour not used = unemployment = crippled economy.
As proof of this we are already seeing goods being sold at cost price & below. So unless PVP or ship loss picks up the above formulae will apply.
And mid and end game is all about PvP - so far, wandering around the open sea not seeing a single enemy let alone one attackable = boring.
This is one area i agree with you as FLS has put the massive economy above all else it has created a potential problem that may be its own downfall.
My guess is that FLS will need to adjust the rewards to make PVP less of a grind & more enjoyable if only to make a healthy economy.
Originally posted by AgtSmith You obviously don't understand the game very well. with everything being player made population is needed just to get all things made and done at a reasonable price. One player cannot possibly produce all the items he will need so if pops are as low as they are now he not only has few people selling and making what he needs but few people to sell what he makes to earn money to buy anything. And mid and end game is all about PvP - so far, wandering around the open sea not seeing a single enemy let alone one attackable = boring.
You got good speculation and you can forsee the future of PotBS, I will hold you too your word that this game is boring and not going anywhere. It is one big yawn fest.
I love your posts on this forum informative on a game you no longer play. Keep up the good work and keep me posted on the game.
I never said the game was doomed, I described a condition as it exists and offered an assessment of how things would be if it persisted. I never said the game was boring I said the result of largely emtpy servers was boring. You sarcasm would be better if it had any truth to it.
Originally posted by DJXeon
As you point out in the economy everything is player made (apart from fall back ships & some low lvl loot) Therefore on high population servers production is high & as PVP rewards do not compensate for the risk there will likely be an oversupply of ship deeds due to insufficient ship loss. Low DB income = low demand = labour not used = unemployment = crippled economy. As proof of this we are already seeing goods being sold at cost price & below. So unless PVP or ship loss picks up the above formulae will apply. And mid and end game is all about PvP - so far, wandering around the open sea not seeing a single enemy let alone one attackable = boring. This is one area i agree with you as FLS has put the massive economy above all else it has created a potential problem that may be its own downfall. My guess is that FLS will need to adjust the rewards to make PVP less of a grind & more enjoyable if only to make a healthy economy. http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/thread/164180
Let me agree in part with what you say, the later part particuarly. As FLS has been quire rigid on relaxing the cost of pvP loss and in teh way they think of the economy above PvP/PvE or at least as the combat being that which justifies the economy instead of the economy being viewed as a servant to the combat that is why I think it is fair to say the game needs populations - 40 or 50 French, 150 Pirates, 180 or so Brits, and maybe 90 or 100 Spaniards does not an MMO server make and in particular it doesn't make a good PotBS server. All that plus the long boring looking for someone to attack stuff - in three weeks when folks are capped it will be snoozefest on the open seas.
Originally posted by AgtSmith I never said the game was doomed, I described a condition as it exists and offered an assessment of how things would be if it persisted. I never said the game was boring I said the result of largely emtpy servers was boring. You sarcasm would be better if it had any truth to it.
Sarcasm? I been reading your posts, you seem to know alot about PotBS.
Low DB income = low demand = labour not used = unemployment = crippled economy. As proof of this we are already seeing goods being sold at cost price & below. So unless PVP or ship loss picks up the above formulae will apply. ...
Actually, I would guess that the reason you are seeing goods sold at below cost is because the economy section of the game is too hard...
For the players I mean...
Let me rephrase that. A lot of the younger players are stupid.
There.. I said it: S-T-U-P-I-D!
They are completely unable to do elementary math.
If I produce 10 units at a total cost of 1890dbn then what is cost price per unit? Anyone?
(Put your hand down Smith - I know you know the answer...)
And if I have to buy components at 15dbn each and it takes 15 units and an additional 50dbn to make 5 units then what is the cost price per unit? Anyone at all?
(If you are over 30 put your bloody hand down - this is a question for the kiddies...)
I was going to suggest to FLS they put a type of "ledger" in game to help with all this - but then I thought "No."
These are things we learned by playing classic games like "Elite".
It's the young kids and the school system that spoon feeds them without making them think - and MMORPGs that are dumbed down to cater for them. Then some of them who still haven't got to grips with the "buy low - sell high" philosophy grow up to become futures traders and mortgage brokers... which explains a lot really doesn't it?
If I produce 10 units at a total cost of 1890dbn then what is cost price per unit? Anyone?
(Put your hand down Smith - I know you know the answer...)
According to the AH it would be either 40 or 55dbn...
Don't know if what that was what you was pointing at, but that is my conclusion. Anyway I think people actually figure out that they either needs to refine their goods more or atleast sell it for above the production cost. Atleast I did get something sold at a reasonable price yesterday.
I think actually the gold ore is costing around 1890dbn to make 10 and that was being sold for 40-55dbn, amongst other things. Made my day when I could buy them and refine them and sell for 450dbn per ingot.
Now for some reason there seems to be a few people producing and selling ore...
wots it matter - you are either enjoying the game or not. When you get posters complaining that there is nobody to play with or no enemies to fight that's when FLS will take note.
Yes, absolutely you're right. I'm sure that FLS is judging it's performance by the complaints of players and not the actual dollars it gets from subs and box sales.
maybe the worst post ever on MMOPRG.com
So what if they are ?
As player are YOU enjoying the game is all that matters.
Just happened to point out that FLS do not need the mass market to be successful.
Although i'm sure they would prefer as many as they can get.
The game itself works well with low populations in any event.
This is a fantastic concept, and I believe Sony has made millions and millions by being something that most people don't like, but the ones that do like it a whole ot.
hope that works out for you.
If FLS have implied or stated that they don't need massmarket to succesful. Why are you saying that they are?
Although launch days generally are to have high spikes in the number of online users, this launch was early in the work week. Take a measurement on Friday and Saturday evenings and post it here or link to an off-site place.
Then if there is desire, a weekly check for eight weeks should provide some indication of the level of "success."
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
If FLS have implied or stated that they don't need massmarket to succesful. Why are you saying that they are?
I don't think FLS or anyone else expects or needs the game to garner hundreds of thousands of players to be successful. FLS has said that they expect the game to appeal to a niche and not necessarily a massive audience, and I have said for some time I expect an EVE like start slow and build over time strategy. But that being said, this is not really about how much money or subs the game has or gets - it is about the vast majority of servers struggling to get more than a few hundred players on them. The weekend will tell us whether it is as bad as it seems, or maybe just slightly bad - but either way it is an issue and something that is going to need to be dealt with.
If FLS have implied or stated that they don't need massmarket to succesful. Why are you saying that they are?
I don't think FLS or anyone else expects or needs the game to garner hundreds of thousands of players to be successful. FLS has said that they expect the game to appeal to a niche and not necessarily a massive audience, and I have said for some time I expect an EVE like start slow and build over time strategy. But that being said, this is not really about how much money or subs the game has or gets - it is about the vast majority of servers struggling to get more than a few hundred players on them. The weekend will tell us whether it is as bad as it seems, or maybe just slightly bad - but either way it is an issue and something that is going to need to be dealt with.
I'm positive and you are negative(almost). That would be a perfect set up for a bet.
I think though that this weekend would be to early to see that. Even that, surprisingly, a EU language specifik server is getting lit up as medium as of now.
Honestly I don't know the numbers but the population "appears" fine...
IE when Im walking around, floating, etc I see many players and the chat channels seem very active at all points I've played.
Now if they can fix that "little" bug where my ship spins around in circles and I teleport to the beach basically unable to move, we'd be getting places! I have a few things to try to fix this... but unfortunately such a huge error may have cost them my sub fee from the get go.
Yesterday there was a huge population increase. People are finally getting their games in and getting to the stores. I think they got the number of servers needed almost perfect. Wow...this weekend will be a true stress test for the popular servers. No server side lag so far.
I started playing potbs on Wednesday. I noticed on wednesday alot of the servers reported "Light" and "medium" for most nations, a very few "Heavy" on some servers. On thursday i logged in- Almost all servers were reporting majority "Medium" with several more heavy's and even seen my first few "Very heavies". The population definantly took a big jump from wednesday to thrusday evenings.
I started playing potbs on Wednesday. I noticed on wednesday alot of the servers reported "Light" and "medium" for most nations, a very few "Heavy" on some servers. On thursday i logged in- Almost all servers were reporting majority "Medium" with several more heavy's and even seen my first few "Very heavies". The population definantly took a big jump from wednesday to thrusday evenings.
It has stepped up for sure - I still think there is an issue brewing depending on how sales go over the next couple weeks. But right now, peek hours see half the servers with healthy to ligth-healthy populations and half with light populations; off peak hours have a couple servers with healthy to light-healthy populations and the rest (8 or 9 of the 11) with mostly light populations.
Comments
Let me explain in more detail:
As you point out in the economy everything is player made (apart from fall back ships & some low lvl loot)
Therefore on high population servers production is high & as PVP rewards do not compensate for the risk there will likely be an oversupply of ship deeds due to insufficient ship loss.
Low DB income = low demand = labour not used = unemployment = crippled economy.
As proof of this we are already seeing goods being sold at cost price & below. So unless PVP or ship loss picks up the above formulae will apply.
And mid and end game is all about PvP - so far, wandering around the open sea not seeing a single enemy let alone one attackable = boring.
This is one area i agree with you as FLS has put the massive economy above all else it has created a potential problem that may be its own downfall.
My guess is that FLS will need to adjust the rewards to make PVP less of a grind & more enjoyable if only to make a healthy economy.
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/thread/164180
I love your posts on this forum informative on a game you no longer play. Keep up the good work and keep me posted on the game.
I never said the game was doomed, I described a condition as it exists and offered an assessment of how things would be if it persisted. I never said the game was boring I said the result of largely emtpy servers was boring. You sarcasm would be better if it had any truth to it.
Let me agree in part with what you say, the later part particuarly. As FLS has been quire rigid on relaxing the cost of pvP loss and in teh way they think of the economy above PvP/PvE or at least as the combat being that which justifies the economy instead of the economy being viewed as a servant to the combat that is why I think it is fair to say the game needs populations - 40 or 50 French, 150 Pirates, 180 or so Brits, and maybe 90 or 100 Spaniards does not an MMO server make and in particular it doesn't make a good PotBS server. All that plus the long boring looking for someone to attack stuff - in three weeks when folks are capped it will be snoozefest on the open seas.
--------------------------------
Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
Sarcasm? I been reading your posts, you seem to know alot about PotBS.
No sarcasm here...
For the players I mean...
Let me rephrase that. A lot of the younger players are stupid.
There.. I said it: S-T-U-P-I-D!
They are completely unable to do elementary math.
If I produce 10 units at a total cost of 1890dbn then what is cost price per unit? Anyone?
(Put your hand down Smith - I know you know the answer...)
And if I have to buy components at 15dbn each and it takes 15 units and an additional 50dbn to make 5 units then what is the cost price per unit? Anyone at all?
(If you are over 30 put your bloody hand down - this is a question for the kiddies...)
I was going to suggest to FLS they put a type of "ledger" in game to help with all this - but then I thought "No."
These are things we learned by playing classic games like "Elite".
It's the young kids and the school system that spoon feeds them without making them think - and MMORPGs that are dumbed down to cater for them. Then some of them who still haven't got to grips with the "buy low - sell high" philosophy grow up to become futures traders and mortgage brokers... which explains a lot really doesn't it?
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
According to the AH it would be either 40 or 55dbn...
Don't know if what that was what you was pointing at, but that is my conclusion. Anyway I think people actually figure out that they either needs to refine their goods more or atleast sell it for above the production cost. Atleast I did get something sold at a reasonable price yesterday.
I think actually the gold ore is costing around 1890dbn to make 10 and that was being sold for 40-55dbn, amongst other things. Made my day when I could buy them and refine them and sell for 450dbn per ingot.
Now for some reason there seems to be a few people producing and selling ore...
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
?
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Yes, absolutely you're right. I'm sure that FLS is judging it's performance by the complaints of players and not the actual dollars it gets from subs and box sales.
maybe the worst post ever on MMOPRG.com
So what if they are ?As player are YOU enjoying the game is all that matters.
Just happened to point out that FLS do not need the mass market to be successful.
Although i'm sure they would prefer as many as they can get.
The game itself works well with low populations in any event.
This is a fantastic concept, and I believe Sony has made millions and millions by being something that most people don't like, but the ones that do like it a whole ot.hope that works out for you.
If FLS have implied or stated that they don't need massmarket to succesful. Why are you saying that they are?
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Although launch days generally are to have high spikes in the number of online users, this launch was early in the work week. Take a measurement on Friday and Saturday evenings and post it here or link to an off-site place.
Then if there is desire, a weekly check for eight weeks should provide some indication of the level of "success."
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
If FLS have implied or stated that they don't need massmarket to succesful. Why are you saying that they are?
I don't think FLS or anyone else expects or needs the game to garner hundreds of thousands of players to be successful. FLS has said that they expect the game to appeal to a niche and not necessarily a massive audience, and I have said for some time I expect an EVE like start slow and build over time strategy. But that being said, this is not really about how much money or subs the game has or gets - it is about the vast majority of servers struggling to get more than a few hundred players on them. The weekend will tell us whether it is as bad as it seems, or maybe just slightly bad - but either way it is an issue and something that is going to need to be dealt with.
--------------------------------
Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
If FLS have implied or stated that they don't need massmarket to succesful. Why are you saying that they are?
I don't think FLS or anyone else expects or needs the game to garner hundreds of thousands of players to be successful. FLS has said that they expect the game to appeal to a niche and not necessarily a massive audience, and I have said for some time I expect an EVE like start slow and build over time strategy. But that being said, this is not really about how much money or subs the game has or gets - it is about the vast majority of servers struggling to get more than a few hundred players on them. The weekend will tell us whether it is as bad as it seems, or maybe just slightly bad - but either way it is an issue and something that is going to need to be dealt with.
I'm positive and you are negative(almost). That would be a perfect set up for a bet.
I think though that this weekend would be to early to see that. Even that, surprisingly, a EU language specifik server is getting lit up as medium as of now.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Honestly I don't know the numbers but the population "appears" fine...
IE when Im walking around, floating, etc I see many players and the chat channels seem very active at all points I've played.
Now if they can fix that "little" bug where my ship spins around in circles and I teleport to the beach basically unable to move, we'd be getting places!
I have a few things to try to fix this... but unfortunately such a huge error may have cost them my sub fee from the get go.
Yesterday there was a huge population increase. People are finally getting their games in and getting to the stores. I think they got the number of servers needed almost perfect. Wow...this weekend will be a true stress test for the popular servers. No server side lag so far.
I started playing potbs on Wednesday. I noticed on wednesday alot of the servers reported "Light" and "medium" for most nations, a very few "Heavy" on some servers. On thursday i logged in- Almost all servers were reporting majority "Medium" with several more heavy's and even seen my first few "Very heavies". The population definantly took a big jump from wednesday to thrusday evenings.
More important than raw population is imbalance - this thread just caught my eye:
http://www.burningsea.com/forums/showthread.php?p=54085#post54085
FLS will definately need ot look at this soon I would think?
FREE FRENCH ACCOUNTS? :-D
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
It has stepped up for sure - I still think there is an issue brewing depending on how sales go over the next couple weeks. But right now, peek hours see half the servers with healthy to ligth-healthy populations and half with light populations; off peak hours have a couple servers with healthy to light-healthy populations and the rest (8 or 9 of the 11) with mostly light populations.
--------------------------------
Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD