MMORPGs going downhill

Murdus

Originally posted by weblinkz2002

Originally posted by Ginkeq


For the record, i'm not responding to 15 year olds whose brains are not developed. 
I'm a WoW insider Webby, a game like that can't keep someone like me addicted.  Anyway, my guild didnt require more than.. 10 hours a week.  That was enough time to beat their PvE system. 
WoW insider? does that mean you've played WoW for what you believe is long enough? Or are you someone working in the publishing/CS side of Blizzard/Vivendi?
Unfortunately they put in more grinds especially post expansion, where it is not new content, just farming the same old trash.
If you want to turn then into a WoW debate, then please rename your subject line in the original post to how WoW gives a bad name to MMOs, in your opinion. I told you before I do not like WoW myself, but I am not ready to start calling 6 million people immature idiots.


Also, I found my cigarrete analogy accurate.  They are both psychological.  I don't see how a cigarrete is physical but whatever, maybe learn more about how your brain responds to MMORPGs if you believe that.
You are partially correct, many people who smoke can develop a psychological dependency on  cigarettes but more than likely you learn the reason why people smoke is mostly because of a phsyical dependency. Meaning their body absorbs chemicals into their system and when their body sees low amounts of that chemical their brain forces them to take the drug again. Take nicotine for example, that chemical is put into cigarettes for taste and to force smokers to become addicted to smoking. World of Warcraft is not a chemical drug and will never force people to have a physical dependency toward the game, but they can develop a psychological dependency toward the game. I have done a few thesis papers on why people become addicted to these games, I got a BS in psychology. Now if you are a professor in Psychology I will step down.
That 15 yr old that just posted is what is wrong with the WoW community.  Get rid of the 5-15 year olds and blizzard would make their game more of a challenge and have less hand holding.
Right now you seem just as immature as the 15 year old poster.

 

I fail to see immaturity in my posts.

You (the OP) have failed in your objective to justify the decline in MMORPGs. All you have done is restated over long paragraphs previously known WoW hate.

Great! So there are young people that play games.. "Everyone! Quick! We need to find out a way to get rid of our main player base ! Who has ideas... Ginkeq! Quick!! Shall we add harder bosses and boobs slapped with an M rating to cancel half of our income!?"

"Why yes of course! Who wouldn't, aside from a company that knows how to make money!"

Way to go! Why bite the hand that feeds you? If you're rolling in cash, you will not just risk half of it to satisfy someone who is already paying. Its just business.

AoC is giving you what you want. WoW isn't so don't play it, don't worry about it. I've played WoW for about 3 months, getting to a level of 33 or so and quitting after that because I figured I have more important things to do like school or play more intelligent games. No, I am not dissing WoW so do not accuse me of it. Some people like that game, and I will say this as I do with everything other WoW hater:

Stop talking about it.. People are paying for WoW, and what you are saying isn't likely to stop them because they have all heard it before.

Back to the decline of MMORPGs: Again, you haven't been talking about it much. MMORPGs started around like the mid 90's or so. Obviously I was still learning my ABC's but none the less my father has worked on games and knows a lot about them and even has some boxes left over. By the looks of it, MMOs have come a far way and they are not stopping. Next gen games, as I said before, are going jumpstart the MMO market once again and all the non-believers will just end up subbing to one of them so stop while you can.

 

Vincenz

Just for the record, I think the inclusion of bewbs is going to make AoC the absolute headquarters for immaturity...be them 15 or 50.

Murdus

Originally posted by Vincenz


Just for the record, I think the inclusion of bewbs is going to make AoC the absolute headquarters for immaturity...be them 15 or 50.

Yea most def

Though it will make my father think twice about it before he allows me to buy it.

weblinkz2002

Originally posted by Murdus


 
Originally posted by Vincenz


Just for the record, I think the inclusion of bewbs is going to make AoC the absolute headquarters for immaturity...be them 15 or 50.

Yea most def

 

Though it will make my father think twice about it before he allows me to buy it.

Well at least we know there are a few happy Design Artists who work on WAR.

sadnebula

lol, op you were owned by a youngin. Might want to lay off that age thing. And to think wow is all very young folks really shows that you are a bit out of touch.

Wow has it's good points. I actually enjoyed  the game till lv 60 when the greed and grind cut in. Their  lack of a good end game AS I LIKE IT, caused me to quit. mmo 's are getting boring period. nothing new and if you try the new releases and it's wow with a different skin then why bother with the new when you can go back to the game where your friends and established character are. I'm not a wow fan,, havent played in a very long time.

 But I'm past  blaming wow for the piss poor clones that have been released , or the brain washing going on,  where we the gamers are actually supposed to praise mmo companies for "POLISH",  which is to say they put  out a finished product that can be played on release and not 4 months down the road.

weblinkz2002

Originally posted by sadnebula
 But I'm past  blaming wow for the piss poor clones that have been released , or the brain washing going on,  where we the gamers are actually supposed to praise mmo companies for "POLISH",  which is to say they put  out a finished product that can be played on release and not 4 months down the road.

It would be great to see games that fit the western market and eastern markets that are fully polished. The problem is that developer studios spend millions of dollars in developing an MMO and it takes a long time to tweak, balance, and add massive amount of content. Right now the US spends 4 times more money on MMOs than they do in Korea, they also are not supported by the government and thusly have to funded by private entities which only care about money.

The funders see WoW and its revenue and forces the developers to make a WoW clone instead of a groundbreaking new MMO. This is the reality of the situation and it makes me mad, but without money nothing will be done.

A few new MMOs were launched before being fully polished because of dwindling funding and wanting to see an income to hopefully pay more people to work on the game which is why it launches too early. Unfortunately, most players in the US expect a completely finished and polished game and never go back because they fail to realize that it can improve with constructive criticism.

Orthedos

Originally posted by Ginkeq


Webby
WoW doesnt really have a storyline, or it might but it doesn't ever get anyone involved.  People just put on instant quest scroll and grab as much as they can, look at the objectives and do them.  If you call that some kind of storyline, that's ridiculous.  Want a storyline? Look at a game like Final Fantasy 7.  WoWs storyline isnt even 1/10000th as deep as FF7.  They could throw in a bunch of stuff that made no sense and no one would notice, because no one pays attention to the "storyline" in WoW  You said WoW is worst and all other games and their developers are pathetic. Now you go after WoW for not having a "storyline".  First WoW is not the best game for "storyline", LOTRo has a better lore.  So what?  Each game has their strength and weakness.  WoW has a more balanced gameplay, with crafting PVP, PVE, talent tree, ... everything in a pot.  With its shorter history of Warcraft relative to FF and LOTR, WoW naturally has less lore to start with.  EQ also starts with almost no lore, so what?  If lore is the only scoring point, go read history.  A game is a balanced product, and each producer balance the various aspects differently.
 
WoW targeted an older audience? Yeah right.  Would an older person be satisfied with doing BGs over and over and over, and a fake pvp system?  If it was for older players it wouldn't give unfair advantages to the 5 year olds who play 20 hours a day.   I do not know if WoW targets any specific age group.  I do not know what older people seeks in a game.  I do believe that each person has his/her own wish and not all aged are identical, nor are all kids identical.  A sweeping statement about "unspecified label" older person (how old is older, >5? >10?) is totally meaningless, at least until you are more specific about your sweeping adjectives.  LOL "older".
No, it isn't much of a life to do that.  If WoW provided something other than a time sink i think those people would be happier with what they get ouf of their time investment.  Just because people play it that long does not mean that they enjoy playing it at all.  They are addicted to it, just like people smoke themselves until they get lung cancer.  It does not mean they enjoy it.  That is another of your subjective wishful assertion.  How do you know they do not enjoy it?  How do you know its pure knee-jerk addiction, unwillingfully so.  Maybe they are playing at the gunpoint, in tears, weeping for their wasted life?  Come on, show us some substantiation of your fancy visions.  The only fact is there are still a few million people playing, and paying to play the game.  Is it a good game?  Well WoW is not my favourite, and obviously not yours.  That is it.  It does not follow from here, that the game is a pain to the few million subscribers.  
Balancing in WoW is a joke as well.  Warlock will dominate almost any pvp bracket in the game.  Where is the balance there?  I will admit they made their pvp system diablo-2 like with its 10 second fights, but they only did that to cover up the fact that they couldn't come up with a balanced pvp system.  So they gave each class a bunch of ways to burn their opponents down.  Warlock did dominated 1 on 1 dueling for a while.  But with each nerfing, things changed.  PVP as in 1-on-1 and as in team play, are different.  So far as I know, WoW is not a game defined by its PVP attractiveness.  DAoC rather, and GW during the first installments are more PVP oriented games.  Dismissing WoW because of one small aspect of the game is totally sweeping, and the issue was the once relative advantage enjoyed by Warlocks in 1on1 duels.  Oh boy, a game is more than just that.  WoW is much more than just that.
I played WoW and I beat every instance in the game. My guild was good enough that we could clear every instance in the game with only a 2-3 hour time investment a few days a week.  I didn't care about the gear, and only played because I wanted a challenge.  The PvE system got boring though because it became trivial very quickly.  You clear an instance once and that is all there is to it, has no replay value.  The pvp system is the same way for me.  So you find the game trivial, move on.  Many millions decided to stay.  That is the fact, period.  WoW is not a bad game to the millions, its a game you do not find satisfying, and that is no big deal, not to Blizzard, not to the millions that played and is still playing, nor to you.  All you need is another game, or another way to kill time.  What do all the others need? that is their own business.


Everquest was a real MMORPG.  If you were new to the game, it was generally very difficult to figure out how to get to another location.  It had a lot of risk in it, but that is what made it enjoyable.  The bosses in EQ weren't really easy like they are in WoW.  The pvp system wasnt balanced, but that didn't stop 100 person fights from taking place over REAL pvp objectives like trying to gain control of a zone to kill a certain NPC.  Now you introduced a new term, "real" MMORPG.  I believe the term real is defined by you, but not clearly defined to us.  Is a game without maps a REAL rpg?  A game with Hard to kill bosses a REAL rpg?  A game with pvp not balanced somehow has a REAL pvp objective like killing each other before grinding a boss, and that is REAL rpg?  OK opinion heard, but I wonder, how many here or how many gamers will fully agree that your views are the only defining views for a REAL rpg.  I for one never know what a REAL rpg or a FAKE rpg is.
WoW is fake pvp and fake pve basically. horrible game  You introduce an undefined term fake, and conclude that WoW is horrible.  Great, basically you are saying "I say WoW is bad".  Period.  So what?  Thank you for your opinion.  That is far from a universal view.  At least a few million are willing to keeping paying monthly for this game, however horrible it might be to you.

Sigh... can you discuss things without your colored spectacles and less colorful adjective, and much preferrably adjective that are not belittling or abrasive.  You do not come here to start hostility, right?

Knightblast

WoW is not the worst MMO ever made.  It is in fact a very well made game, it is just targeted at a certain audience, and very expertly targeted and designed in that way.

Timesinks have been a part of MMOs since forever.  It's a part of the business model.  The idea is to give people a persistent character and goals to strive towards.  It's the striving and the goals that keep people playing.  Radical as this sounds, I don't think people will pay to play a game that is just "fun" without the characteristics of a persistent world and character advancement -- why bother, when most SP games have online modes that offer such "fun" for free?

Of course this opens up the whole SP vs MMO can of worms (and I don't think MMOs generally fair well in that comparison, to be honest), but really without time sinks you have no real hook to keep your players subbed, and keeping your players subbed is the central fulcrum of the business model.  Even a game that is structured around PvP, FFA or RvR take your pick, has time sinks to keep players striving for a goal.  Otherwise, we could just play BF2 or CS for free and have all the PvP fun we want, or play NWN online mods for free and have all the RPG we want,

Orthedos

Originally posted by sadnebula


lol, op you were owned by a youngin. Might want to lay off that age thing. And to think wow is all very young folks really shows that you are a bit out of touch.
Wow has it's good points. I actually enjoyed  the game till lv 60 when the greed and grind cut in. Their  lack of a good end game AS I LIKE IT, caused me to quit. mmo 's are getting boring period. nothing new and if you try the new releases and it's wow with a different skin then why bother with the new when you can go back to the game where your friends and established character are. I'm not a wow fan,, havent played in a very long time.
 But I'm past  blaming wow for the piss poor clones that have been released , or the brain washing going on,  where we the gamers are actually supposed to praise mmo companies for "POLISH",  which is to say they put  out a finished product that can be played on release and not 4 months down the road.

Aye that is quite an opinion.  WoW was a good game till 60.  Lots of things to do.  Generally balanced PVE.  The community turns very greedy and elitist after the game hits max level.  That is sad and that ruins the game in general.  Can't blame Blizzard totally for that.  On the other hand, if all you want is fun, you do not need to go after the big instances, there are still enough maps to explore for a while before the game gets old.  AND, which game does not get old after a while?

tropik

Wanna know why i dislike WoW? Well, now most of the mmo players don't know any better, which will then lead to even more WoW copies. They simply don't know about anything other than grinding for gear when it comes to content, which is basically all WoW is about.

Heres an example from the wow forums where people are discussing about Eve:

simple rule of EVE dont fly what you cannot afford to lose.

"lol then why bother having the stuff? thats like pvping in green gear because you don't want to lose your gladiator gear"

 

NeonShadow

This thread has nothing to do with the end of MMORPG's and everything to do with irrational hate targetted at WoW

jimsmith08

OP,are you dread0g,the cool and awesome guy from youtube?

altairzq

The OP is right, MMO nowadays are a pathetic excuse for what a MMO can be. Only old players of old EQ and UO know this.

Ginkeq

You guys haven't refuted any of my arguments, including the broken pvp system.  All you've done is said "im wrong" without giving a reason.  I'm guessing some kids got offended from my post

Btw Real MMORPG is a pre-WoW MMORPG, now they are all cookie cutter weak games.

Vincenz

Originally posted by Ginkeq


You guys haven't refuted any of my arguments, including the broken pvp system.  All you've done is said "im wrong" without giving a reason.  I'm guessing some kids got offended from my post


Btw Real MMORPG is a pre-WoW MMORPG, now they are all cookie cutter weak games.

Irony...

Ginkeq

Originally posted by Vincenz


 
Originally posted by Ginkeq


You guys haven't refuted any of my arguments, including the broken pvp system.  All you've done is said "im wrong" without giving a reason.  I'm guessing some kids got offended from my post


Btw Real MMORPG is a pre-WoW MMORPG, now they are all cookie cutter weak games.

 

Irony...

If you think wow is a real MMO, you haven't played many MMORPGS

JasPlun

Originally posted by Ginkeq


 
They cater to idiotic 5-15 year olds and have made a trivial time-sink game where skill doesn't exist and you can be #1 by picking a certain character and talent tree.
You can sit in a BG all day and have the best gear in the game (most people do this because they don't have real lives or anything of that nature so they can grind the gear fairly easy)
The game is a timesink and any older person with any kind of life realizes the game was set up for newbies who could invest huge amounts of time on pointless objectives.


WoW is probably the worst MMORPG ever made.  It is disgusting how lousy the game is, and yet it retains so many people.  That is only because all the other MMORPG companies are pathetic and can't think of any new ideas.
Seriously. FPS MMORPGs with no endgame, and where they provide a ton of quests just to have people suscribe for a bit only to realize the game is total trash.
I hope MMORPG companies don't try to cater to the dumb audience that plays WoW though, because I wouldn't want to play on the same server as a bunch of immature dumb kids where the company will just throw out time-sink content that is trivial and pointless to give them something to do. 
 
 

I am glad the 10 milluion current worldwide players do not think like you. I do know for sure the mmo makers out there will not think like you either. Just because you think a game sucks or you think it should be another way is irrelavent to the majority of gamers out there you are nothing compared. I like WOW and I like it just the way it is ,can it be improved yes,can all mmos out there use improvement yes. Now I like wow but that dies not mean I want every game coooming down the pipe to be like wow I look to play a different game every time I play one and I hope they understand this or we are in a heap of trouble for the futire of games. You did not have to flame wow because you did not like it,Just go play agame you do like simple as that.

Vincenz

Originally posted by Ginkeq


 
Originally posted by Vincenz


 
Originally posted by Ginkeq


You guys haven't refuted any of my arguments, including the broken pvp system.  All you've done is said "im wrong" without giving a reason.  I'm guessing some kids got offended from my post


Btw Real MMORPG is a pre-WoW MMORPG, now they are all cookie cutter weak games.

 

Irony...

 

If you think wow is a real MMO, you haven't played many MMORPGS

No, I think demanding that people justify their arguments with facts and reasons and then making a ridiculously unsupported generalization in the next sentence pretty much defies logic and removes your credibility completely.

hope that clears it up.

Ginkeq

Originally posted by JasPlun

Originally posted by Ginkeq


 
They cater to idiotic 5-15 year olds and have made a trivial time-sink game where skill doesn't exist and you can be #1 by picking a certain character and talent tree.
You can sit in a BG all day and have the best gear in the game (most people do this because they don't have real lives or anything of that nature so they can grind the gear fairly easy)
The game is a timesink and any older person with any kind of life realizes the game was set up for newbies who could invest huge amounts of time on pointless objectives.


WoW is probably the worst MMORPG ever made.  It is disgusting how lousy the game is, and yet it retains so many people.  That is only because all the other MMORPG companies are pathetic and can't think of any new ideas.
Seriously. FPS MMORPGs with no endgame, and where they provide a ton of quests just to have people suscribe for a bit only to realize the game is total trash.
I hope MMORPG companies don't try to cater to the dumb audience that plays WoW though, because I wouldn't want to play on the same server as a bunch of immature dumb kids where the company will just throw out time-sink content that is trivial and pointless to give them something to do. 
 
 

I am glad the 10 milluion current worldwide players do not think like you. I do know for sure the mmo makers out there will not think like you either. Just because you think a game sucks or you think it should be another way is irrelavent to the majority of gamers out there you are nothing compared. I like WOW and I like it just the way it is ,can it be improved yes,can all mmos out there use improvement yes. Now I like wow but that dies not mean I want every game coooming down the pipe to be like wow I look to play a different game every time I play one and I hope they understand this or we are in a heap of trouble for the futire of games. You did not have to flame wow because you did not like it,Just go play agame you do like simple as that.

When all the MMORPGs dumb down their content for kids, it kind of ruins the industry for more skilled MMORPG players who enjoy challenging games.  Why would I play a dumbed down game like WoW that is clearly for young kids?

Arcken

Originally posted by Ginkeq


 
Originally posted by JasPlun

Originally posted by Ginkeq


 
They cater to idiotic 5-15 year olds and have made a trivial time-sink game where skill doesn't exist and you can be #1 by picking a certain character and talent tree.
You can sit in a BG all day and have the best gear in the game (most people do this because they don't have real lives or anything of that nature so they can grind the gear fairly easy)
The game is a timesink and any older person with any kind of life realizes the game was set up for newbies who could invest huge amounts of time on pointless objectives.


WoW is probably the worst MMORPG ever made.  It is disgusting how lousy the game is, and yet it retains so many people.  That is only because all the other MMORPG companies are pathetic and can't think of any new ideas.
Seriously. FPS MMORPGs with no endgame, and where they provide a ton of quests just to have people suscribe for a bit only to realize the game is total trash.
I hope MMORPG companies don't try to cater to the dumb audience that plays WoW though, because I wouldn't want to play on the same server as a bunch of immature dumb kids where the company will just throw out time-sink content that is trivial and pointless to give them something to do. 
 
 

I am glad the 10 milluion current worldwide players do not think like you. I do know for sure the mmo makers out there will not think like you either. Just because you think a game sucks or you think it should be another way is irrelavent to the majority of gamers out there you are nothing compared. I like WOW and I like it just the way it is ,can it be improved yes,can all mmos out there use improvement yes. Now I like wow but that dies not mean I want every game coooming down the pipe to be like wow I look to play a different game every time I play one and I hope they understand this or we are in a heap of trouble for the futire of games. You did not have to flame wow because you did not like it,Just go play agame you do like simple as that.

 

When all the MMORPGs dumb down their content for kids, it kind of ruins the industry for more skilled MMORPG players who enjoy challenging games.  Why would I play a dumbed down game like WoW that is clearly for young kids?

the problem is, its the money that makes the decisions. And right now dumbed down, instant gratification games are what sells. Sad really.

Liddokun

Originally posted by Ginkeq


 
They cater to idiotic 5-15 year olds and have made a trivial time-sink game where skill doesn't exist and you can be #1 by picking a certain character and talent tree.
You can sit in a BG all day and have the best gear in the game (most people do this because they don't have real lives or anything of that nature so they can grind the gear fairly easy)
The game is a timesink and any older person with any kind of life realizes the game was set up for newbies who could invest huge amounts of time on pointless objectives.


WoW is probably the worst MMORPG ever made.  It is disgusting how lousy the game is, and yet it retains so many people.  That is only because all the other MMORPG companies are pathetic and can't think of any new ideas.
Seriously. FPS MMORPGs with no endgame, and where they provide a ton of quests just to have people suscribe for a bit only to realize the game is total trash.
I hope MMORPG companies don't try to cater to the dumb audience that plays WoW though, because I wouldn't want to play on the same server as a bunch of immature dumb kids where the company will just throw out time-sink content that is trivial and pointless to give them something to do. 
 
 

Totally unsubstantiated post full of nonsense rants lacking any contributive factor. With 10 million subscribers worldwide it clearly proves people LIked the game. i THINK you are one of those WoW players that got frustrated with the game so don't go around saying the whole MMORPG industry is going down because WoW does not represent the whole gaming industry.

nariusseldon

Originally posted by altairzq


The OP is right, MMO nowadays are a pathetic excuse for what a MMO can be. Only old players of old EQ and UO know this.

Don't put words in my mouth. I beta-tested UO, EQ and played EQ, since release, for years before I quit because of the endless camping.

WOW is much much better than either game in many regards, including no camping, fun quest, no rampant PvP (if you don't want to), and polish.

Ginkeq

Originally posted by liddokun


 
Originally posted by Ginkeq


 
They cater to idiotic 5-15 year olds and have made a trivial time-sink game where skill doesn't exist and you can be #1 by picking a certain character and talent tree.
You can sit in a BG all day and have the best gear in the game (most people do this because they don't have real lives or anything of that nature so they can grind the gear fairly easy)
The game is a timesink and any older person with any kind of life realizes the game was set up for newbies who could invest huge amounts of time on pointless objectives.


WoW is probably the worst MMORPG ever made.  It is disgusting how lousy the game is, and yet it retains so many people.  That is only because all the other MMORPG companies are pathetic and can't think of any new ideas.
Seriously. FPS MMORPGs with no endgame, and where they provide a ton of quests just to have people suscribe for a bit only to realize the game is total trash.
I hope MMORPG companies don't try to cater to the dumb audience that plays WoW though, because I wouldn't want to play on the same server as a bunch of immature dumb kids where the company will just throw out time-sink content that is trivial and pointless to give them something to do. 
 
 

 

Totally unsubstantiated post full of nonsense rants lacking any contributive factor. With 10 million subscribers worldwide it clearly proves people LIked the game. i THINK you are one of those WoW players that got frustrated with the game so don't go around saying the whole MMORPG industry is going down because WoW does not represent the whole gaming industry.

10 million suscribers, haha.  Just because it has a lot of suscribers doesn't mean anything.  Just because there are 2-3 billion people belonging to a religion, by your logic, you should assume that is the best religion?  Good one

Anyway, here is my main problem with WoW. 

Read it if you actually are interested in knowing why WoW went downhill (i included some meat in this argument).

Ok.  The WoW PVP system is basically fake.  What I mean by this is that it's artificial.  Back when WoW came out, everyone was doing world pvp, attacking various cities, and had huge battles in hillsbrad.  This kind of PvP sucked, but it was slightly better than BGs.  The reason why it sucked: there was really no reason to pvp or to attack towns other than the act of PvPing. 

If you look at a game like Everquest, and if you played a pvp server.. You would know that people would frequently have massive battles just to take control of a PvE zone to raid it.  That is imo a real good reason for people to fight each other.  Current MMORPGs seem to throw in PvP just to get the "PvP player" but WoW doesn't really attract the true pvpers. 

Instead, WoW attracts a kind of "PvE PvPer", which means they have to throw in all this honor crap / rewards just to get people to fight each other.  After WoW was released, people were kind of complainin about how PvP is like a pointless grind because you don't really get rewards, and the BGs came soon after.  In addition, they decided to take out all the incentives to participate in world PvP. 

Sure, the BGs might have been an improvement over the "no pvp" system that was originally in WoW.  Even on the PvP servers people thought it was pointless to fight each other due to there being no rewards.  You' just kill the same people over and over, and nothing really happens.

The real reason why WoW is a FAKE pvp game is because it had no real incentives to participate in World PvP over real objectives. 



Almost every NPC encounter in WoW is provided by an instance.  Some may agree with this, but I think it ruins the intra-server community.  Guilds no longer negotiate with each other, and they don't have to deal with each other at all.  Each guild has its own instance, but is that really an improvement? 

Shouldn't there be a system where everything is a global spawn, and get rid of all these fake pvp systems.  The real rewards were to destroy other guilds in certain zones then raid them.  What is the point of fighting over and over and over in a BG?  It's like there is no objective..

As I said though, it attracts the PvE PvPer: the type of person who only pvps for the rewards.  That is a huge problem with the PvP system as any real pvper knows.  Real PvPers don't want to keep killing the same people over and over and over, those are griefers (not that you can be griefed in WoW though).  There is something about beating another guild in a fight over control of a zone that makes it more meaningful than fighting another guild in a BG and completing some pointless objective. 

And there should be LOSSES in PVP.  You shouldn't just respawn without a dura hit, or something like that.  It's ridiculous to let them just keep coming back like that in world pvp.  In EQ, the loser would leave because if they didn't, they would just get destroyed by the other guild (because they had no gear usually after losing).

With losses in pvp, it means if you win, you win.  There is no sense of winning or losing in WoW pvp.  It's not even an accomplishment to be on the top of your battlegroup, because your opponent doesnt lose anything.  All you get is some gear, but it's not like you actually win. 

 

What would have made WoW a better game?  They should have losses in pvp, rare super-tough global npcs that causes guilds to fight each other.  Get rid of the BG system, put in HUGE honor rewards for taking down town bosses.  However, make it so difficult that there needs to be hundreds of people to kill them.  That is an ideal  WoW and it is a shame they didn't put in a real system like that, where world PvP is encouraged.  Only then will there be a sense of community among a server. 

I truly hope future MMORPGs don't put in systems similar to WoW's because it is really a bad system.  People who play under the system i described realize that it is much more exciting to fight over real objectives rather than "run a flag back 3x" or something else.

 

Murdus

I'm back in action. And you have not changed any views of yours which is ironic because about 99% of these replies provided good reasons why you are wrong

It is good see that people are saying WoW was a good MMORPG because it is probably in my top 5. WoW was so great, it influenced countless projects more than anything. The first thing 90% of MMO fans think when that new awesome game is announced is "Will this kill WoW?"

You say 9million subscribers doesn't mean anything?

'nuff sed. You are wrong, just stop replying with nonsense

 

WoW has a broken PvP system? I don't see how, you earn points and spend those points on equipment. Grind is not equal to broken.

And by the way.. WoW is built on foundations of a PvE game and IS a PvE game. Grading the game on one aspect which you are, is stupid. Give me PvE reasons why you dont like it. If you dont like PvP play on PvE.

Murdus

Originally posted by Ginkeq


 
Originally posted by Vincenz


 
Originally posted by Ginkeq


You guys haven't refuted any of my arguments, including the broken pvp system.  All you've done is said "im wrong" without giving a reason.  I'm guessing some kids got offended from my post


Btw Real MMORPG is a pre-WoW MMORPG, now they are all cookie cutter weak games.

 

Irony...

 

If you think wow is a real MMO, you haven't played many MMORPGS

Sorry for the double post but..

what?

the?

....?      What is an MMORPG? Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game... you cannot play every role in WoW.. is it is an MMORPG. It is an easy MMORPG, but thats how they like the game. Stop saying that EVERY MMORPG after WoW is cookie cutter. Have you ever even played DDO? There are systems in that game and tactics that WoW has never touched.

You seem to be just saying that WoW is the reason for the decline even though it was the one thing that made people look twice.